FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  grain mill evaluations (Boston Wort Processors' Krush-off 3/3) (Patrick Sobalvarro)
  Pumpkin Ale recipe (ANDINATOR)
  Smoky Mountains ("Anderso_A")
  chill concentrated wort? (John D. Pavao)
  McEwan's ale (Brian Bliss)
  Trophies & NEBFF (Chuck Cox)
  Lactic Acid (Phil Brushaber)
  cold plates (Steve Christiansen)
  Williams Brewing (mike.keller)
  Oatmeal Stout, William's Brewing (Jim Grady)
  Brewski (tm.) it's official! (LeRoy S. Strohl)
  Corona Motorization (drose)
  Small Batches (Chris Cook)
  To protein rest or not to protein rest (John_D._Sullivan.wbst311)
  yeast query & bottled experience (David Atkins)
  Now, why don't they make it in an ale? ;) ("decc::carlson")
  pint glasses (Michael Bruening)
  Cooking with beer recipes ("Graham Truelove at START_Mail*")
  Cooking with beer recipes (Graham Truelove on Fri, Oct 1, 1993 2:05 PM)
  RE: Drinking Containers ("Pamela J. Day 7560")
  aeration (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
  Papazian's "Amazeing Pale Ale" (Jay Cadieux)
  cinnamon in apple cider (sean v. taylor)
  Modesto Clubs (KONSTANTINE)
  Pitching Rate (Jack Schmidling)
  too high keg pressure? (Alexander Samuel McDiarmid)
  Christmas Ale Recipe (Jim Grady)
  William's Brewing (KONSTANTINE)
  re: Troubleshoot my dry-hopping! (npyle)
  Carboys/Yards (fjdobner)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Sep 93 14:21:48 EDT
From: pgs at ai.mit.edu (Patrick Sobalvarro)
Subject: grain mill evaluations (Boston Wort Processors' Krush-off 3/3)

This article is being posted in three parts, due to the 8K limit for HBD
submissions.  This is part 3 of 3 parts.

The following article is reprinted from Volume VI, Number 10 of "Brewprint,"
the newsletter of the Boston Wort Processors, Boston's oldest brewing club.
This issue was edited by Mike Fertsch.  Complete issues (which would include
the illustrations for this article) can be ordered for $2.00 each from:

    The Boston Wort Processors
    c/o James M. Fitzgerald
    12 Ward Street
    Randolph, MA  02368

This article may be republished without approval so long as proper credit is
given to the Boston Wort Processors.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------

Mill: Listermann Malt Mill              Operator: Pete Langlois
                                        Owner: unidentified

The Listermann Mill, also known as the PhilMill, is a single-roller adjustable
malt mill that crushes grain against a fixed plate.  A 2.5-lb. plastic-bottle
hopper can be affixed to the top.  It is attached to a table with two large
screw-hooks.

We had trouble with the Listermann Mill during the Krush-off, and we are not
sure that it was operating correctly.  The mill was run motorized, with the
same 2.3-amp electric hand drill as in other tests.  However, the crushing
rate was extremely low -- about one pound per ten minutes.

The mill has no bearings, and so the roller is secured in the metal body with
two steel circlips, one on each side of the body.  When the mill was operated
during our test, one of the circlips ground against the metal body, producing
a fine metal powder that soaked up the lubricant.  As a result, the mill began
to make loud metal-on-metal noises, and the test was stopped prematurely,
after fifteen minutes and thirty seconds.  The body of the mill became
noticeably hot during the test.  The rate of crushing, as noted above, was
approximately one pound per ten minutes, which most of the Worts present
deemed unacceptably slow.

Notwithstanding these considerable problems, the crush committee felt that the
Listermann Mill produced the highest-quality crush of all.  No whole kernels
were found; the husks were in good shape; the crushed kernel pieces were of
nearly uniform size, and there was very little powder.  A very high extraction
rate was expected.

The workmanship of the Listermann Mill was not considered very good.  The
hopper, while serviceable, was considered "kludgey," and the screw-hooks for
attachment to the table proved difficult to use and not very secure.  The very
low rate of crushing, and the means of securing the roller in the body, with
its attendant problems, were noted with some distress by those present.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------

Mill: Glatt Malt Mill                   Owner: Patrick Sobalvarro
                                        Operator: Bob Gorman

The Glatt Malt Mill, from Glatt Machining, is a two-roller all-metal mill with
4-inch steel rollers, with wide, shallow, lengthwise grooves.  Both ends of
one roller are adjustable with a semi-circular vernier scale to allow one to
repeat settings.  The rollers are mounted in Delrin bearings.  The drive is
geared, and the mill is built so that the lands of one roller and the grooves
of the other face each other at the crushing surface.  The mill has a 2.5-lb.
hopper, and is intended to be mounted on a table using two 3/8" bolts.  A
chute carries the crushed grain from the bottom of the rollers into the grain
container.

The Glatt Mill was evaluated both hand-cranked and motorized.  In both cases
the rollers were left at their factory-set spacing.  In the hand-cranked test,
the operator was timed at approximately 150 rpm, for the most frenetic
hand-cranking of the day.  Two pounds were crushed in 1:06 (one minute and six
seconds).  In earlier testing, the mill proved very easy to crank by hand,
because of the mechanical advantage afforded by the gearing.

When motorized, with a 2.3-amp electric hand drill, the Glatt Mill crushed two
pounds of grain in 0:45 (45 seconds).

The crush committee found no differences between the two crush samples (from
the hand-cranked and motorized tests) when they were examined side by side.
Both had slightly less powder than the hand-cranked Schmidling mill.  The
granule size was uniform.  The condition of the husks was considered to be the
same or "maybe 5% better" than the hand-cranked Schmidling mill.

The workmanship of the Glatt Malt Mill was considered excellent.  The metal
construction and heavy enamel paint appeared very durable.  The ease of
adjustment and ease of cranking were both noted favorably.

It was noted during the test that some grain pieces sticking to the Glatt
Mill's rear roller were ejected from the back; this amounted to a negligible
amount when two pounds were crushed, but it was messy all the same.  Greg
Glatt has said that he is modifying the chute to entirely cover the rear
roller for this reason.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------

We enjoyed the Krush-off, and for many of us, it was our first opportunity to
see some of the mills we've heard about, and also to see them in action.  It
was good fun, and the beer prepared from the crushed grain will be enjoyed at a
future meeting.

Many Worts helped in the Krush-off, and space does not allow us to list them
all.  Tim and Heidi of course deserve all our gratitude for being such
excellent hosts.  Tim Madigan, the gentleman who timed the hand-crankers, has
my appreciation.  The crush evaluation committee, consisting of Scott Keohane,
Bill Slack, Bob "El Presidente Exigente" Gorman, and various others whom I
have no doubt forgotten, as well as the owners and operators of all the mills
all deserve kudos for making the Krush-off possible.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1993 15:29:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: ANDINATOR at delphi.com
Subject: Pumpkin Ale recipe

In HBD #1237 JMGARNETT at ATCSD.ESS.HARRIS.COM (JIM) writes:
>    pumpkin brew! If anyone has recipes or suggestions for brewing with
>    pumpkin PLEASE respond before my taste buds rebel. Also, this will
>    be my first batch made with fruit or vegetable so any advice is
>    always welcome. I switch back and forth between all-grain and
 
I won 3rd place in the Novelty Beer category at the 1992 Dixie Cup
Homebrew Competition with this recipe.  To give credit where it is
due, I based this recipe largely on an extract recipe that was printed
in Barley Malt & Vine's (West Roxbury, Mass) store newsletter a few
year's back.  I added 1 lb. light crystal malt and substituted Chico Ale
Wyeast #1056(aka American Ale) for the dried yeast they recommended.
I also modified (increased!) the spices used.
 
6 # Northwestern Golden malt extract
1 # British crystal malt
2 # sliced up pumpkin (NOT the gross seedy junk, the stuff you carve!)
1.5 oz Fuggles hops for 60 minutes
1 tsp Nutmeg
1 tsp Allspice
1 tsp Cinnamon
1 oz fresh grated Ginger root
Wyeast #1056 (American Ale, allegedly the same yeast used by SNBC)
 
Add all the spices (including Ginger root) for the last 10 minutes of
the boil.
 
OK, now there is some controversey over exactly WHEN to add the
pumpkin:  the original newsletter said to add 2 inch cubes of pumpkin
to the brew-kettle 10 MINUTES before the end of the boil, and to
"ferment on" the pumpkin cubes.  In the batch I made for the Dixie
Cup, I put the pumpkin cubes into the brew-kettle 30 minutes before the
end of the boil.  I'm not sure this was a good idea - I think I boiled
off some pumpkin crud ("crud" is a technical term) that got into the
final product.  With the batch I just brewed, I am going to add mashed-up
pumpkin to the secondary carboy, and rack the contents of the primary on
top of it.  I used this method with excellent results on a raspberry
wheat beer recently.
 
I also used a very different hopping schedule in my most recent batch:
60 minutes - 3/4 oz Willamette (4.5% alpha)
30 minutes - 1/4 oz Willamette
             1/2 oz Cascades (5.5% alpha)
 5 minutes - 1 1/2 oz Cascades
 
The original recipe said to add finings to clear.  I added 1 teaspoon
of Irish Moss at 60, 30 and 10 minutes before the end of the boil.  I
am also considering finings or some other clarification agent in the
secondary (pumpkin has got some CLOUDY JUNK in it!).
*----------------------------------------------------------------------*
| Sysop                    Andrew Patrick                      Founder |
| Home Brew U-Midwest BBS                    Home Brew U-Southwest BBS |
| (708)705-7263     Internet: andinator at delphi.com       (713)923-6418 |
*----------------------------------------------------------------------*

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Date: 30 Sep 93 10:31:00 EST
From: "Anderso_A" <Anderso_A at hq.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Smoky Mountains

Message Creation Date was at 30-SEP-1993 10:31:00
      
          Greetings,
               I've a friend who will be driving from Wash., DC to the
          Smoky Mountains (NC - Tenn border).  He wants to know what's
          in the area for good drinkin establishments.  Also, if
          there's anything worthwhile to stop at along Rte 81 S.

          Thanks,
          Andy A


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Date: Thu, 30 Sep 93 14:31:56 EDT
From: pavao at ptsws1 (John D. Pavao)
Subject: chill concentrated wort?

Hello fellow homebrewers,

	I have been an HBD subscriber for about a month and an extract
brewer for about nine months.  Suring that time I have brewed about a
dozen batches.  My usual practice is to transfer the concentrated wort
(about 1.5 gallons) to a carboy containing about 3.5 gallons of cold water
to make up a five gallon batch.  I have heard and read about the value of
quickly cooling the wort to yeast-pitching temperatures.  I am wondering
if I would be better or worse off if I chilled the concentrated wort
before adding it to the cold water in the carboy.  I would very much
appreciate any comments.

		John


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Date: Thu, 30 Sep 93 15:49:05 -0500
From: bliss at pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss)
Subject: McEwan's ale


bjw at techsun1.cray.com (Benjamin Woodliff) writes:

>I'm not particularity fond of Scotch Ale, at least if bottled McEwan's
>is a good example of it.

it's not.

>I'm curious about how much of what I would refer
>to as the overpowering "malty sweetness" of McEwan's owes itself to
>mashing at somewhat higher temperatures?

McEwan's Scotch Ale is sweetened with lactose after fermentation.

On the other hand, McEwan's Export IPA is not, and is a very good example
of a (mild) scotch ale (but it's not an IPA).  Alternatively, MacAndrew's
(strong scotch ale, or wee-heavy) is quite nice, but lacks smokey
character and has too much hop flavor for a scotch ale (but it's yummy).
Traquair House is the definitive example, at $5 a bottle.

Don't get turned off to scotch ales because of McEwans Scotch Ale...

bb


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Date: Thu, 30 Sep 93 17:37:26 EDT
From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox)
Subject: Trophies & NEBFF

I am involved with an upcoming beer festival and am looking for some
nice trophies/plaques/whatever to give the winners in the homebrew
competition. 

I am soliciting recommendations for mail-order or local suppliers.  My
requirements are a good catalog, quality merchandise and timely
delivery. 

The New England Brewers Fall Festival is on October 23rd in Boston.  It
will be the largest beer festival on the east coast.  We are expecting
over 100 breweries from New England, the US and the world to attend plus
such luminaries as Michael Jackson, Fred Eckhardt and Bert Grant. 

If you would like more information about the event, send a request for
"event info" to nebff at synchro.com.  If you would like information about
volunteering to work at the event, send a request for "volunteer info"
to nebff at synchro.com. 

- -- 
Chuck Cox   <chuck at synchro.com>
SynchroSystems / Riverside Garage & Brewery - Cambridge, Mass.

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Date: Thu, 30 Sep 93 18:34:20 CDT
From: philb at pro-storm.metronet.com (Phil Brushaber)
Subject: Lactic Acid

In Dallas we have very soft water. In order to avoid an astringent
quality in my beer, I have been more carefully adjusting the
PH of the sparge water. My "acidifying" agent has been Calcium
Sulphate (Gypsum). Problem is with the amount of Gypsum I have to
add to get the PH down, I am adding a lot of Calcium.
        A brewing friend suggested using Lactic Acid. Got a bottle
of Kent brand 88% Lactic Acid. I could use a suggestion from you
Brewing Chemist types....
        Any guess on how much of this 88% Lactic Acid I might use
to adjust the PH in 5 gallons? You know something like: "1 tsp of
88% Lactic acid should lower 5 gallons of liquid by .4 PH degrees".
I could use trial and error but I've got a hunch that someone
out there may have the answer or be familiar with this stuff.

- -----
Internet: philb at pro-storm.metronet.com
    UUCP: metronet.com!pro-storm!philb
  Bitnet: philb%pro-storm.metronet.com at nosc.mil


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Date: Thu, 30 Sep 93 17:08:21 -0700
From: Steve Christiansen <steven at sequent.com>
Subject: cold plates

A number of times, in this forum and elsewhere, I've heard of homebrewers
who use cold plates to chill kegged beer to drinking temperature on the
way to the tap.  Sometimes this is done with ice on the cold plate.
In other cases the cold plate is placed in a fridge or freezer.

Now this sounded great to me because I have a fridge space shortage,
and it would be easier to find room for a cold plate than a keg.
But when I asked the guy in the draft department of the local homebrew
shop about cold plates, he told me I wouldn't be happy using one
in that way.  He said I'd have to start with the keg chilled somewhat
to end up with beer that's cold enough.  He gave me the impression that
these things drop the temperature only a few degrees.  I'm inclined
to believe the guy because he could have sold me an expensive cold
plate if he had kept his mouth shut, but before I give up on the idea,
I thought I'd gather more data.

If you use a cold plate to chill beer, how well does it work for you?
Do you need to keep the cold plate at 32F or below to work well?
Are some cold plates better than others?  (recommendations welcome)
Or should I forget about the idea?

Thanks for any info.

- --
Steve Christiansen
Sequent Computer Systems
Beaverton, OR
steven at sequent.com


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Date: Fri,  1 Oct 93 03:54:00 BST
From: mike.keller at genie.geis.com
Subject: Williams Brewing

 
 ||Does anyone have an address, or better yet, a phone number    ||
 ||(1-800 number if possible) for these folks?  I've got to do   ||
 ||an oatmeal stout, and at least for now, an extract brew is    ||
 ||the only way it'll happen.  But oatmeal stout is just too     ||
 ||good as an after-dinner/late-night treat to pass up!          ||
 
Order line for William's Brewing in San Leandro CA: 1-800-759-6025,
M-F 8am-5pm Pacific Time, Saturdays 10-5 PT. Their fax order line, 24
hours, is 1-800-283-2745. They accept Visa, MC and Discover.
 
Enjoy!
 
 Mike Keller, Beer Sysop, Food and Wine Roundtable, GEni
 

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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 93 7:17:41 EDT
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Oatmeal Stout, William's Brewing

First of all, here are the numbers for William's Brewing:

William's Brewing
P.O. Box 2195
San Leandro, CA 94577

Orders:         1.800.759.6025
FAX Orders:     1.800.283.2745
Advice:         1.510.895.2744
Other:          1.510.895.2793

<insert standard disclaimer here>

Here is a recipe for an "oatmeal stout" I made using their extracts.  I
am quite pleased with it.

                Oatmeal Stout
6# William's Oatmeal Dark Extract
1# William's American Dark DME
1# William's Weizenmalt DME (60% wheat, 40% barley)
6 oz. Amber Crystal Malt (60^L)
3 oz. Dark Crystal Malt (120^L)

7.5 HBU Northern Brwer Hop Plugs (1 oz.  at  7.5 %alpha)  - 60 min boil
2.5 HBU E.K. Goldings Hops (whole) (1/2 oz, don't really remember the
        alpha content) - 60 min boil

1/2 tsp Irish Moss - 20 min boil

Wyeast Irish Ale yeast.

1. For the crystal malt, I crushed the malt and put in a straining bag &
   put that in 6.5 gal of water at 120^F.
2. Heated the water to 170^F & removed the heat.
3. Let steep at 170^F for 15 min.
4. Remove grains, bring pot to boil.
5. Remove heat, add malt extracts.
6. Bring to boil, add hops & boil for 60 min.  Add Irish moss 20 min
   from end.
7. etc, etc, etc,

For the new brewers out there, it took me a while to realize that I
needed to do the first part of step 5.  I used to add the extracts while
the heat was applied and no matter how well I tried to stir, I would
scorch some malt onto the bottom of the pan.  Also, it should be obvious
that this is a full-boil.  If you only boil 2-3 gal, you'll have to
increase the amount of hops you use.
- --
Jim Grady              |"Root beer burps don't have to be said 'Excuse me'."
grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com |                Robert Grady, age 4.75

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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 93 9:28:35 EDT
From: LeRoy S. Strohl <lstrohl at s850.mwc.edu>
Subject: Brewski (tm.) it's official!

According to an article on page 66 in the 11 October issue of -Forbe's-
"Brewski" is now a trademark. The guy that brought you those wonderful
LA Gear products has gone into the beer business. "The label on Sandy
Saemann's bottles, currently rolling out nationwide, says 'The Greatest
Name in Beer.' The slogan is 'Brewski, ask for it by name.'"... The
article goes on to talk about the growth of the microbrewery business.
Apparently the guy sees this new venture as a 'lifestyle' marketing
vehicle. "To be blunt about it, Saemann hopes to use suds to sell socks.
His Brewski Brewing Co. plans to market jackets, caps, socks, - even
director's chairs and barbecue sauce - with the winged Brewski logo."
"Brewski catlogs will offer gift packs containing a bottle of beer, two
pilsner glasses and a cap all bearing the Brewski logo. Brewski sells
for about $5 a six pack, versus $4 for Bud and $7 to $8 for other
microbrews. Brewski will be the only microbrew in cans, anotherway of
identifying the beer as a product for people who want to act
bluecollar."  The contract for production will be done by G.Heileman, in
small batches.
Arrgggggh!
A couple of days ago I posted the notice about the demise of Miller
Clear. I had thought about dusting off the old H.L. Mencken quote that
goes something like-
	"No one ever lost money underestimating the taste of the
	American people."

Somehow, it seems more appropriate to apply it this piece about Brewski.

I guess it would have been too much to expect that this guy might have
wanted to talk aoubt the quality of his beer first, and then delve into
the fun of marketing a bunch of tie-ins. 

As for me I think I'll have a "homebrewski." I have reason to believe
that it will be better than Saemann's/Heileman's stuff.



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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 10:43:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: drose at husc.harvard.edu
Subject: Corona Motorization

Hi:
	I have used a corona mill for grinding for the last couple of
years and am pretty satisfied.  I am sure there are nicer mills out there,
but cost is a factor and I am not interested in investing in a new one at
the present time.  However, I recently acquired a variable speed hand
drill, and was anxious to make the small advance of motorizing my present
mill. Sometime ago I ordered, from Northeast Brewer's Supply, for the
price of $1.00, a fitting to allow one to hook up a drill to the Corona. 
I had been planning on buying a bolt of the appropriate size and cutting
the head off, but as it was only $1.00, and as I was feeling a little
guilty about the skimpiness of the rest of the order I was making, I got
one. When it arrived, I was somewhat chagrinned to find that it consisted
of a bolt with the head cut off. But no matter. I attached it to my
Corona, chucked on the drill, and set to work.  
	I was attempting to approximate the speed of my usual cranking
(which is in the neighborhood of 8 lbs in 12 minutes).  However, the
variable speedness of the drill notwithstanding, I could only attain two
states.  State one consisted of no radial movement, and assorted nasty
sounds and smells emanating from the drill.  State Two consisted of rapid
spinning of the grinder plaste, and an accompanying shower of crushed
grains all over my kitchen.  After alternating between states one and two
for several minutes, I began to fear for both the mechanical integrity of
my drill, and the cleanliness of my kitchen, and I gave up.
	So, what is the deal here.  Do I need a more powerful drill? Or,
am I simply trying to grind too slow.  Perhaps full speed grinding is
required, along with some sort of backup shield to guide the grains to
their appropriate destination. Finally, maybe I just need more practice to
attain an intermediate speed.  Any info would be appreciated.
							
							Dave.


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Date:    Fri, 1 Oct 1993 14:44:24 GMT
From: COOK at CDHF2.GSFC.NASA.GOV (Chris Cook)
Subject: Small Batches

{Bret (MSMAIL.DOWDB at TSOD.lmig.com> asked about brewing smaller batches.  A
couple of years ago I started a similar thread, but I never got around to
posting any obvious results.
 
In my case, I was trying to make sense of the (then new) Belgian malts.
Aromatic, biscuit and the others all sounded fascinating, but I didn't have
the slightest idea how to use them.  I figured to make a series of small
beer batches, where each was a basic beer with a lot of one specialty malt.
 
I brewed about 7 or 8 all-grain 1-gallon batches before I ran out of steam.
It was actually a lot of fun.  When you've used to 5 gallon brewing, these
little one-gallon mashes were so easy I'd have three or more going at a
time.  Suddenly my kitchen stove was actually hot enough, my regular pots
and pans were the right size, and I didn't strain my back humping 6-gallon
pots.

I started by scrounging a raft of 1-gallon glass jugs.  I bought a few to
start off, but so many juices and ciders come in 1-gallon glass that you
and your friends can finish the supply pretty easily.  I ended up with 6, I
think.
 
I didn't get fancy with mashing, limiting myself to simple infusion mashes.
Jack's EASYMASHER or some variation would have been perfect, but I was just
messing around using general kitchen stuff, so I rigged a mash/lauter-tun
by putting a screen in the bottom of an old 1-gallon water thermos, which
worked amazingly well.  I wasn't trying for accurate measurements, but I
think I was getting close to 30 points per pound (per gallon, obviously).
Later I changed to a two-gallon cylindrical cooler, and that allowed me to
add all the sparge water at once, which also helped.  I was worried that
maintaining temperatures with the small mashes would be difficult, but with
the thermos, and mashing in the middle-150s, there wasn't a problem.
 
In cooking, one way to really understand how a specific spice tastes is to
use too much, and that was my aim for these beers.  My first batch was just
the base beer with no additions.  I think I used just under 2 pounds of
Pale, but, like most people, I don't have my notes with me at work.  The
second batch used somewhat less Pale and a pound of Carapils. In the next
set I brewed another control beer, one with Caravienne and another with
Caramunich, and so on.  All were hopped with what I though was a middling
amount of Cascades.

For each set of batches I made up a quart of yeast starter with some
neutral ale yeast.  When the batches were cooled, I would split this
starter between the batches, and fermentation always started quickly.
 
The little batches turned out quite interestingly, although not what I'd
expected.  I don't know whether the hops utilization was quite different or
my scales were simply inaccurate, but the beers were all very hoppy, with
strong, although pleasant, bitterness and a great hop aroma.  On the up
side, I found I liked the beers with 'left coast' hop levels.  The down
side was that the high hop levels overshadowed the differences in malts.
 
I know that my hops scale (a postal scale, actually) isn't that accurate
for my 5-gallon batches - it barely registered for the 1-gallon amounts.  I
tried measuring the hops by volume by measuring 4 ounces, then
interpolating, but I was still only using a large teaspoon or so of pellets
ber patch.  I tried crushing the pellets in the mortar and pestle so that I
could measure more accurately, but it still wasn't very accurate.
 
That was the only serious problem I had.  If you can find a way to
accurately measure the hops for these small batches, I recommend going for
it.  It was fun and easy.
 
One other hint.  I did this before the thread about adding specialty malts
at mashout, so I just mashed all the grains.  If I do this again, I'll make
a larger batch of the base beer and perform smaller mashouts with each
specialty malt.  You'd still have to perform separate lauters, but it would
cut out a lot of the running around I did for simultaneous mashes. Another
option would be to get a lauter tun bigger than 1 gallon and play around
with first and second runnings.
 
Or play around with the different kinds of hops, or different fermenting
temperatures.  Have a ball.
 
 
Chris Cook
cook at cdhf2.gsfc.nasa.gov

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Date: 	Fri, 1 Oct 1993 08:02:25 PDT
From: John_D._Sullivan.wbst311 at xerox.com
Subject: To protein rest or not to protein rest

Hi all,
I just purchased a 55lb bag of M&F Pale 2-row malt, and am planning on making a
couple of batches of pale ale, couple of browns and a couple of porters. I'm
assuming this is a highly modified malt and I can do an infusion mash and skip
the protein rest. Is this assumption correct? Will it make a difference on the
styles, or mash them all alike?
Thanks much,
John

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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 93 11:10 CDT
From: David Atkins <ATKINS at macc.wisc.edu>
Subject: yeast query & bottled experience

Hello readers,
 
Two queries if I may...
 
YeastLabs American Ale:
   I recall someone asking for any experiences or reactions to this strain.  I
have 5 gals of pale ale (og 40) in a secondary and the yeast head has yet to
drop.  I racked from underneath the primary's yeast head and a new one grew in
the secondary carboy.  It has diminished some but this is my first experience w/
the yeast and since it has been fermenting for a week, I just want to know what
might be happening.  This batch got off on a rollicking start...I had signs o'
fermentation within 3 hours and a yeast top-layer in about 7-8 hours (the power
of aeration and 4 cups starter).  In sunny Madison, the tilt of the earth has
lower the ambient temp. of my basement to 60-63 F.  Could the lower temp result
in such a slowing of fermentation.  Before I could ferment for 1 week to 9 days
and have clear beer to bottle....but that was before this yeast and temp change
and recipe.
 
Bottles:
   Has anyone used the 1 pint 6oz Sapporo or Kirin beer bottles for home brew.
They don't appear to be as thick as returnable long necks but their generous
size and easy access make them a temping container.  How would they hold up to
bottle conditioning....3/4 cup corn sugar or 1 1/4 cup malt extract...don't need
to carb. anymore than that.
 
Thanks,
David Atkins
atkins at macc.wisc.edu
 
 

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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 93 12:22:39 EDT
From: "decc::carlson" at tle.enet.dec.com
Subject: Now, why don't they make it in an ale? ;)

	SOFIA (UPI) - One of the largest breweries is beginning production of
a special beer which would help against radioactive contamination, press
reports said Friday.
	The beer, called Lulin Special Light Laer, is supposed to help people
cleanse themselves from radioactive stroncium-85 particles, which enter
the body through the air and various foods, and are deposited in the
bones, reports the daily 24 Chasa.
	Sofia newspapers carried pictures of members of the Defense
Ministry's Civil Defense Department drinking the Pilsen type beer
Thursday.
	Lt. Colonel Valentin Angelov, scientific secretary of the ministry's
Scientific Development Council, told United Press International that
work on the project had begun two years ago.
	``After the Chernobyl incident, we began intensive work on foodstuffs
and beverages which could help the human body fight radioactive
contamination,'' said Angelov.
	On April 26, 1986, the nuclear power plant in Chernobyl, 80 miles
(128 km) north of Kiev, Ukraine, was damaged. Radioactive contamination
spread across eastern and northern Europe.
	Angelov said that the special effect of the beer was due to an
ingredient called Kanta-tonic, which contained some 40 Bulgarian herbs
and was developed jointly by the country's Academy of Sciences and the
Central Laboratory on Radiobiology and Toxicology at the Military
Medical Academy.
	``All our experiments have shown that the lager greatly promotes the
decomposition of stroncium-85,'' said Angelov.
	According to the managing director of the Lulin brewery, Ivan Mihov,
it is for the first time in the world that such a beverage was being
produced.
	He said great interest had already been shown towards the beer from
abroad, notably from the the United States and Japan.



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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 93 14:35:04 EDT
From: Michael Bruening <mwb2r at uva.pcmail.virginia.edu>
Subject: pint glasses

Reading the discussions about different drinking containers reminded me of a
problem I've had - I have not been able to find traditional English pint
glasses (NOT the dimpled kind with the handle) anywhere in the U.S.  Does
anyone know of a place that sells them, either direct or mail-order?  E-mail
responses are fine.  Thanks.

Michael Bruening
mwb2r at virginia.edu 

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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 93 17:55 GMT
From: "Graham Truelove at START_Mail*" <Graham_Truelove+aSTART+_Mail*%START at mcimail.com>
Subject: Cooking with beer recipes

From: Graham Truelove on Fri, Oct 1, 1993 2:05 PM
Subject: Cooking with beer recipes
To: Homebrew Digest

FYI: This month's Gourmet magazine, October 1993, gives several new recipes 
for cooking with beer - microbrewed or mass-produced (or for that matter 
homebrewed).  The article states "The hearty and savory dishes that emerged 
from our test kitchens highlighted beer's versatility as an ingredient, its 
most notable properties being a subtle bittersweet taste and, for meats, a 
tenderizing effect. It's also worth noting that most preparations made with 
beer are best accompanied by a tall glass of their most salient ingredient." 
Sounds good to me.

Mussels steamed in spiced beer
Beer-braised brisket with root vegetables
Onion and Garlic Beer Soup
Chile con queso y cerveza (Cheese and chili beer dip)
Beer, sun-dried tomato, and olive quick bread
Deep-fried broccoli and carrots in scallion and caper beer batter
Pork chops in beer teriyaki marinade
Stout spice cake with lemon glaze

All the recipes but the last call for pale, light-bodied beers and discourage 
the substitution of stronger flavored beers. I haven't tried any yet but the 
stout spice cake and the beer-braised brisket both look tempting.

- -- Graham

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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 14:25:00 EST
From: "Pamela J. Day 7560" <DAY at A1.TCH.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: RE: Drinking Containers

Hi!
	Gene in Laramie asked if Corning Outlets still carry Yard
glasses, the answer is yes! At least in New Hampshire they do. Yards
run about $30.00, 1/2 Yards about $22.00 and Foots are $15.00. The 
1/2 Yards are tough to get because they sell out quickly, but they've
always had the others in stock when I've been in there. $30.00 is a 
great price for Yards with a stand, especially when I saw the exact
same one at The Boston Brewer's Festival for $65.00. (Even more 
especially when one's cat sacrifices one's yard to the radiator!)

Cheers!

Pam

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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1993 14:07:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: aeration

George Fix writes that as the O2 fraction in wort is ~32%, aerating with
air will lead to 1/3 less dissolved O2.  Shouldn't this be 2/3 less???

Jeremy Bergsman

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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 93 18:58:42 EDT
From: ab126 at freenet.carleton.ca (Jay Cadieux)
Subject: Papazian's "Amazeing Pale Ale"


In 09/30/93's HBD, CCA:ELS_DEM asks about the use of cornstarch as an
adjunct in ale brewing.  He mentions Papazian's "Amazeing Pale Ale"
recipe.  

My first all-grain batch was that exact recipe.  The cornstarch converted
well, leaving some corn aromatics in the ferment and in the beer.  These
corn aromatics subsided after about 2 months in the bottle.  There was
no "cidery" taste that you can sometimes get with corn sugar (dextrose).


- --
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jay A. Cadieux (ab126 at freenet.carleton.ca, 1:163/277.1 at fidonet.org). 
"Be the master of your shadow, not the shadow of your master" - Nietzsche
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 93 20:25:21 EDT
From: sean v. taylor <sean at chemres.tn.cornell.edu>
Subject: cinnamon in apple cider


	Greetings all on the HBD.  I'm a newcomer (been
reading the digest for a couple of months) and have found the 
info very helpful). Now I have a question of my own.
	I recently made a hard apple cider with a friend of mine
and it looks great.  It's almost ready for bottling and we have 
a few questions about that.
	1)  Which bottles would be better for bottling--beer
bottles or wine bottles?  We think we want to use wine bottles,
but is there any problem with this?

	2)  We have also considered adding a stick of cinnamon
to each bottle.  Has anybody done this?  Would this affect the 
flavor in a bad way (i.e., off flavors due to microorganisms on 
the cinnamon, too much cinnamon flavor, etc.)

	Any input at all would be most helpful.
					Thanks,
						Sean Taylor

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Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1993 21:30:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: KONSTANTINE at delphi.com
Subject: Modesto Clubs

   >A friend of mine (who does not have access to HBD) recently move to
  >Merced California
  >If you know of any local clubs or individuals please let me know.

  I just looked in the Celebrator (a local brew newspaper) for clubs.
I'm not sure what's in the area of Merced, so some of these may be out of
his area.

          Brew Angles - Lodi
          Ken Matzek (209) 368-2515

          Gold Country Brewers Association - Sacramento
          Phil Steed (916) 383-7702

          San Joaquin Wort Hogs - Fresno
          Dale James (209) 264-5521

          Stanislaus Area Assoc. Zymurgists
          Micah Millspaw (209) 847-9706

          Stanislaus Hoppy Cappers
          Wayne Baker (209) 538-BREW

  I hope there is no problem with me posting these phone numbers.  They
were pulled out of a public forum.  If I'm breaking a net taboo, I'm sorry.
Also, have your friend look up homebrew supplies in the phone book and call
up the closest one.  Most shops are happy to direct you to the nearest club.
That way you learn more about brewing (and spend much more money!).  Good
luck and happy brewing.

          B*B,
            Konstantine.

konstantine at delphi.com

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Date: Fri, 1 Oct 93 22:32 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Pitching Rate

 
 >From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
 
 >It has been my experience that underpitching yeast is a common problem
 with some homebrewers, and selected micros as well. 
 
 I am sure George's reputation doesn't hang on my corroboration but my recent 
 experience leads me to concur emphatically.  I don't know about it being a 
 "problem" but it certainly is a significant factor in lag time.
 
 After pondering all the responses to my wort aeration experiment, I conducted 
 one more experiment which makes the connection between aeration and lag time 
 even more tenuous.
 
 To pre-empt more of the same irrelevant discussion, please keep in mind that 
 the experimental objective was ONLY to measure lag time as a function of 
 aeration and had nothing to do with the well accepted need for oxygenated 
 wort for unrelated reasons.
 
 I normally pitch about 500 ml of active wort built up from a slant culture.  
 The first step is to cover the slant with wort so the entire culture is 
 available to start the starter.  The slant culture is discarded after one 
 use.
 
 I typically spend about 5 days building up the starter doubling the volume 
 ever 24 hrs.  It typically takes about 48 hours before any sign of 
 fermentation is apparent in ten gallons of wort at 40F and 8 to 24 hrs for 
 ales at room temp.
 
 On my most recent batch, I built the starter up to 3 liters and fermentation 
 was obvious in about 6 hours at 40F.
 
 My point is not to champion the advantages of fast startup because I don't 
 know anymore than what I have read and I doubt that my last batch will taste 
 noticeably different from previous ones.
 
 I am simply pointing out that pitching rates have such a profound affect on 
 lag time compared to aeration that any attempt to measure the later effect 
 will be swamped by error cause by small variations in the pitching rate.
 
 js
 
p.s.  It also seem obvious that pitching liquid yeast in the convenient
starter package as supplied by one manufacturer, is not a very sensible
way to get a beer off an running.

jjs


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Date: Sat,  2 Oct 1993 02:52:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alexander Samuel McDiarmid <am2o+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: too high keg pressure?

   I have brewed a batch (2) in coke type kegs (5&3 gal) and cannot get
the beer out without overfoaming.  I have standard 1/4 (1/8) internal
Diameter tubes (they fit the barbs) and a beer keg type cheapo spigot. 
I bled all the pressure out and it still siphons too carbonated.

help (feel free to reply off line)

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Date: Sat, 2 Oct 93 15:54:29 EDT
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Christmas Ale Recipe

For those who might be looking for a Christmas Ale recipe, here is one
that Curt Freeman and I made 2 weeks ago and I just bottled my share
this afternoon.  We took the spice list from Phil Fleming's Christmas
Ale recipe that Kinney Baughman posted here 2 years ago.  Since we had
had a lot of fun with our first all-grain batch a week or so earlier we
decided to do a partial mash (so we each would get 5 gal) and change it
from a stout base to an amber base.  Anyhow, here is the recipe:


         Christmas Ale for 10 gal
         ------------------------

  9#    Pale Malt                               Mash at 156^F for 90 min
  0.75# Dark Crystal Malt (120^L)          -+
  0.5#  Caramunich Belgian Malt (60-80^L)   +-- add at mash out
  1#    German Dark Crystal Malt (20^L)    -+
  10#   Munton & Fison Light Malt Extract Syrup

  2 oz (15 AAU) Northern Brewer Hop plugs (10 gal remember) - 60 min

  1 oz Hallertauer Hop plugs (steep 10 min)
  1.5# Honey               -----+
  10 cinnamon sticks (3")       |
  12 oz grated ginger root      |
  zest from 12 oranges          +-- Simmer 45 min; then add to wort (after
  4 Tbs Allspice (whole)        |        the boil and steep with Hallertauer
  2 Tbs Cloves (whole)     -----+         hops

  Wyeast German Ale yeast (1007)

We added the crystal malts at mash out in an attempt to retain some
body.  The combination we used was based partly on what I had left over
from previous batches.  We used a rectangular picnic cooler for the
mash/lauter tun.  It did not hold the heat very well compared to the
insulated box method that we used on our all-grain but we feared that
there was too much grain to use the tried & true method.

O.G. 1.056
F.G. 1.010
Fermented at 60^F

At bottling time, it is very good.  The cloves and allspice are more
pronounced over previous batches (I've made Phil's version for the past
2 years) but that may be due to finally following the directions!
- --
Jim Grady              |"Root beer burps don't have to be said 'Excuse me'."
grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com |                Robert Grady, age 4.75

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Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1993 15:58:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: KONSTANTINE at delphi.com
Subject: William's Brewing

  >> William's Brewing is a big mail-order outfit in San LEandro CA.
  >Does anyone have an address, or better yet, a phone number (1-800
  >number if possible) for these folks?

  OK, here goes.  The address is:

         William's Brewing
         2594 Nicholson St.
         P.O. Box 2195
         San Leandro, Ca.  94577

         Phone: (800) 759-6025
         Fax: (800) 283-2745

     B*B,
       Konstantine.

konstantine at delphi.com

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Date: Thu, 30 Sep 93 9:49:23 MDT
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: re: Troubleshoot my dry-hopping!

Darryl has a better eye than I for troubleshooting brewing mistakes.  He keenly
noted the following:

>caa at com2serv.c2s.mn.org (Charles Anderson) writes
>>I did the same thing with my first full mash Pale Ale.  I added 1oz of
>                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Willamette to the fermenter, it came out with a great hop aroma, but also
>>an unbelievable bitterness.  BTW I just threw the hops in on top of the
>>fermenting wort.  It took a long time for my bitterness to go away, and
>>by that time I didn't think the beer was very good.  (couldn't tell if
>>wasn't very good to start with too much bitterness)
>
>This struck a chord in me.  I'd just like to point out that your
>hop utilization is going to change dramatically when you go from
>a partion boil extract brewing process to a full boil mashing
>process.  I discovered when I changed over that I needed about
>half as much hops as I had been using in extract beers.
>
>The reason is that if you boil 6 pounds of extract in a gallon and
>a half of water, the gravity of that wort is well over 1.100, and
>probably somewhere near 1.125.  High gravity worts don't take up
>much iso alpha acids from the hops.  When you switch to all grain,
>and therefore full wort boils, your gravity will be more like
>1.050, and you'll get a lot more bitterness out of your hops.

I had the same experience when I went to all-grain and I should have noticed
this.  Shortly thereafter I started basing my hop schedule on IBUs and have no
problems since.  The IBU formulae consider the OG (although the details of
utilization are debatable) and avoid the problem of overhopping with full boils.

norm

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Date: Sun, 3 Oct 93 15:11 CDT
From: fjdobner at ihlpa.att.com
Subject: Carboys/Yards

For those interested and living in the Northern Illinois area, the
Corning Factory Store has the following to offer:

5 gallon glass carboys.............$8.99 (ask for cardboard packing)
Yard of Ale Glasses (w/stands)....$29.99  
1/2 Yards (w/stands)...............$19.99  
Foot of Ale Glasses (w/stands).....$14.99  

The yards are cheaper than I have seen before. It is not something
for which I would immediately jump at at, but some would.

They are located in the Piano Factory Mall in St.Charles w/ telephone
number of (708)377-5460. The mall additionally has a housewares outlet
store with other things of interest to homebrewers (canning jars etc...).

Good Luck

Frank Dobner

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1239, 10/04/93