HOMEBREW Digest #1240 Tue 05 October 1993

Digest #1239 Digest #1241

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Mailing/shipping home brew (brewerbob)
  Old brew/Babylon (Jack Thompson)
  Corning Outlets near DC? (gorman)
  re: cold plates (The Ice-9-man Cometh)
  Cold Plates (Jack Schmidling)
  Re: Pint Glasses (William Pemberton)
  grain mill evaluations (Boston Wort Processors' Krush-off 3/3) (Patrick Sobalvarro)
  dryhopping rate (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  cleaning/brewing tips (Chris Pencis)
  Re: Christmas Ale Recipe (Jim Grady)
  Barley Wine fermentation schedule? (npyle)
  North Jersey Suppliers (Jim Vella 470 XXXX )
  Krush-off / help (Omega)
  Novice all-grainer's comments (Steve Zabarnick)
  Dave Barry observations (fwd) (Michael Ligas)
  Dave Barry observations (NAME)
  Chillers, Yeast, and Stout (Robert Pulliam)
  Two Hop Topics (Mark Garetz)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 03 Oct 93 16:39:59 EDT From: brewerbob at aol.com Subject: Mailing/shipping home brew I have checked it all out and I have been the "victim" of the US Postal Service as well. Here is the real skinny on at least two methods of shipping alcoholic beverages: The U.S. Postal Service has regulations forbiding the shipment of any alcoholic beverage via USPS. (As well as about 100 other items such as explosives, drugs, toxic materials, etc, etc...) That's all there is to that! I had a package that I sent (or tried to send) to the state of Washington that was dropped/hit/crushed/mishandled/etc in spite of the labels on all six sides stating it was fragile. I received a form stating that I had been a bad boy and my package was sent straight to Hell (I think that may be the other Washington!) and I could not even get my postage back! Shipping by UPS is legal! However, to avoid any hassle with some low paid and low trained clerk that could easily occur if you identify it as beer, the best thing to do is identify the contents as "Non- parishable food products" or "Hobby parts including glass and metal" or something along those lines. If you must, call it "Live yeast cultures" and the driver may be more careful with the handling of the box. I do strongly recommend, however, that you do NOT send it in a beer carton! I sent a case of twenty sixteen ouncers to Texas in a Tucher box (after all, they were originally Tucher bottles) along with a second box which was a plain brown box containing about ten assorted bottles of home brews. The two were sent at the very same time. The second one arrived just fine, the first one never arrived. I just hope the driver appriciated my home brew. It was a Shiner style Bock beer. I did put in a claim and UPS paid me $100 plus the $11.xx shipping cost. I split the money with the intended recipient and told him to buy a case or two of good beer with it! Good luck with your shipments. BrewerBob at aol.com P.S. By the way, when I ship beer to the AHA competition, I always include a couple of extra labeled bottles for the crew and I pack the beer bottles in fresh popcorn so they have something to eat with all that beer. I enclose a note telling them that the popcorn was popped as the box was being prepared for shipment so it is fresh. The whole thing starts in a plastic bag inside the box which is sealed before the box is closed. Return to table of contents
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1993 22:08:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Thompson <jct at reed.edu> Subject: Old brew/Babylon just reading through Carl S. Pederson's _Microbiology of Food Fermentations_, the AVI Publishing Co., Inc, Connecticut, 1971, when I came across this item on p. 211: "The first evidence of beer manufacture has been traced to to ancient Babylonia, possibly dating back as far as 5000 to 7000 B.C....Some 18 varities of beer, called bousa, were said to have been prepared in Babylonia as long ago as 2200 B.C. ...At some time barley was moistened and when germination began, it was crushed with a pestle, roughly ground, and made into loaves with sour dough or leaven. They were baked sufficiently to form a crust without cooking the interior. When beer was required, the loaves were broken, mixed with water, and allowed to ferment. the liquid was pressed, separated from the dough, and when fermentation was completed, the resulting acid-alcoholic beverage was called boozah or bousa. Booze? Babylonian? Beer=high tech? Just another data point. Jack C. Thompson Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 93 09:39:22 EDT From: gorman at aol.com Subject: Corning Outlets near DC? Recent messages have described the variety of glassware available at Corning Outlets. Does anyone know of one of these near the Washington, DC area? Bill Gorman Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1993 9:01:47 -0500 (CDT) From: SMITH at EPVAX.MSFC.NASA.GOV (The Ice-9-man Cometh) Subject: re: cold plates Regarding chilling beer with a cold plate in a freezer: This would probably work for one or two glasses of non-warm beer. But the thermal mass of the cold plate is a lot lower than that of the beer going through it. A little heat transfer: Assume an aluminum cold plate at 255K (0 F), 5 gal of beer weighing 19 kg at 290K (62 F), and perfect heat transfer. No heat transfer to the freezer during dispensing (worst case, but not by much). No temperature change due to CO2 coming out of solution (not sure how much this matters). Dispensing temperature to be 278K (40 F). Specific heat of Al alloy: 820 J/kg/K Specific heat of water (beer): 4184 J/kg/K Equation: mp*Cpp*(Tout-Tp) = mb*Cpb*(Tb-Tout) where p=plate, b=beer, Tout=dispensing temp. Solve for mp, mass of plate: mp = (19 kg)*(4184 J/kg/K)*(290K-278K)/(820 J/kg/K)/(278K-255K) = 51 kg This means you'd need a 110 lb aluminum cold plate to dispense a whole keg of beer. Of course, it's all more complicated than that, because you get a lot of temperature variation in the output of the plate as it warms. One way to help this problem would be to put your cold plate in a pan of antifreeze solution (like what you put in your car). The bigger the better, but don't ruin your freezer; water is heavy.... | James W. Smith, NASA MSFC EP25 | SMITH at epvax.msfc.nasa.gov | | "Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery | | None but ourselves can free our minds" --Bob Marley | | Neither NASA nor (!James) is responsible for what I say. Mea culpa. | Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 10:03 CDT From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Cold Plates >From: Steve Christiansen <steven at sequent.com> >Sometimes this is done with ice on the cold plate. In other cases the cold plate is placed in a fridge or freezer. I have used a cold plate for years and assure you that they are totally adequate for serving beer when used with ice. I have noted people using them in a fridge but can not imagine how that could work very well. The difference in heat transfer between ice water to aluminum vs refirgerator or even freezer air is orders of magnitude. A freezer might work for one glass but that would be about it. It that is all you want, it might be ok. >From: drose at husc.harvard.edu >Subject: Corona Motorization >I had been planning on buying a bolt of the appropriate size and cutting the head off, but as it was only $1.00, and as I was feeling a little guilty about the skimpiness of the rest of the order I was making, I got one. When it arrived, I was somewhat chagrinned to find that it consisted of a bolt with the head cut off. This is a constant frustration for manufacturers who get accused of ripping off customers for things that seem trivial. Most people simply do not understand the costs of manufacturing which must include purchasing, inventory, interest, labor, overhead, markup for retail, taxes, shipping, packaging, warranty... the list is endless. Just what would you charge to supply me with a bolt with the head cut off? You got a bargain. > After alternating between states one and two for several minutes, I began to fear for both the mechanical integrity of my drill, and the cleanliness of my kitchen, and I gave up. So, what is the deal here. Do I need a more powerful drill?... You are simply experiencing the limitations of the so-called variable speed drills on the market today. They have very little torque at low speeds and are pretty useless for your purpose. I would suggest getting it to run at the proper speed before filling the hopper and then adding grain only as fast as it will take it. This unfortuantely may not maintain enough pressure on the plates for a consistant grind but sow's ears do not make silk purses. If you can afford a new drill, I highly recommend getting a geard-down version of a 1/2" drill. The power or size of the drill is not as important and the gear ratio. The higher ratio allows the motor to operate at higher speed and produce much greater torque. You will, BTW, destroy you drill shortly after you smell smoke, if you continue. js Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1993 12:19:16 -0400 (EDT) From: William Pemberton <wfp5p at holmes.acc.virginia.edu> Subject: Re: Pint Glasses > Reading the discussions about different drinking containers reminded me of a > problem I've had - I have not been able to find traditional English pint > glasses (NOT the dimpled kind with the handle) anywhere in the U.S. Does > anyone know of a place that sells them, either direct or mail-order? E-mail > responses are fine. Thanks. If you mean the kind of slant sided pint glasses, Market St. Wine Shop (downtown) has them. They aren't QUITE traditional English, since they are a US pint. - -- Bill Pemberton wfp5p at virginia.edu ITC/Unix Systems flash at virginia.edu University of Virginia uunet!virginia!wfp5p Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 12:55:46 EDT From: pgs at ai.mit.edu (Patrick Sobalvarro) Subject: grain mill evaluations (Boston Wort Processors' Krush-off 3/3) Oops, it was pointed out to me that I neglected to include price information in the third part of the Krush-off writeup, which included the descriptions of the Listermann Mill and the Glatt Malt Mill. The prices in question are: Listermann Malt Mill: $75 + tax Glatt Malt Mill: $80 + $5 shipping A lot of people have sent me mail asking for the address of Glatt Machining. Glatt's address has been published here before, but here it is one more time: Glatt Machining 920 Stanley Drive College Place, WA 99324 (509) 529-2084 -P. Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 13:13:25 EDT From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: dryhopping rate Yesterday I bought (and drank) a bottle of Young's Special London Ale. This beer had the most vegetal hop character that I've ever encountered in a bottled beer. I have no idea how fresh it was (don't know how to read the date code -- does anyone know if the "beer date decoder" works on this label?), but it sure tasted fresh. This stuff's got a LOT of dry hops in it. It tastes about the same as my IPA with 2 oz E.Kent Goldings hop plugs in 5 gallons, except fresher! (I did make the IPA back in the spring, I guess.) If you're wondering about dry hop rates, you should try this beer. =Spencer Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 12:45:35 CDT From: chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu (Chris Pencis) Subject: cleaning/brewing tips Do you have any tips, hints (such as vortex outflow from bottles and carboys for rinsing etc) which have made the brewing and especially the cleaning processes any easier? I'm on batch 8 and I'm looking to begin streamlining the brew process....email address below. TIA If there is a demand, I will repost depending upon info recieved. Thanks, Chris ====================================================================== |Chris Pencis chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu | |University of Texas at Austin Robotics Research Group | ====================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 14:09:07 EDT From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com> Subject: Re: Christmas Ale Recipe Spencer Thomas asked if any water is used to simmer with the spices in the Christmas Ale recipe I posted. No, there isn't. I put all the spices in the honey and heated it on low for 45 min. The honey gets pretty runny when heated. Now that I think about it, I think I used a double boiler this time (in which case there is some water but not with the ingredients!). Sorry for the confusion. - -- Jim Grady |"Root beer burps don't have to be said 'Excuse me'." grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com | Robert Grady, age 4.75 Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 12:29:37 MDT From: npyle at n33.stortek.com Subject: Barley Wine fermentation schedule? My latest brew is an all-grain barley wine, on the weak side. The OG was around 1.085 (boiled for many many hours!). I was trying to get the OG higher, but that is another story (I now know why many people do partial mash barley wines!). Anyway, I used a 1 pint starter from Wyeast London Ale yeast, which was possibly a bit past high krauesen, in a 5 gallon batch. The start of obvious fermentation took over 24 hours, so I suspect I underpitched considerably. Aeration was done with a venturi tube apperatus, using the falling cooled wort (new CF chiller worked great!) to suck air into it. It had a nice 3 inches or more of foam on the top of the fermenter, so I think aeration was adequate (maybe not?, read on...). The kraeusen reached a couple of inches in about 3-4 days, and slowly levelled off and went down to a 1/4 inch layer of foam after that. After a week, I sneaked a taste in the primary. No off flavors, but _very_ sweet. I didn't take a gravity reading. After another week, 2 weeks total in the primary, I did a gravity reading and subsequent tasting. The gravity was 1.055!!! The taste was (obviously) still very sweet. I racked into my secondary, where the beer will stay for a while, but for how long? Am I looking at a 6 month ferment here? Is this normal for a high OG beer? The strongest beer I've made before was OG 1.057 and it acted quite normal (2 weeks to 1.015 or so). I know this sounds like the standard "how long till I bottle" question, but it pertains to the high gravity end of it. I'm in no rush, but this could take forever. If this is not normal (which I suspect) should I aerate at this point, add more yeast, nutrient, what? Next time (there _will be_ a next time) should I work extra hard (compared to "standard gravity" ales) at increasing yeast population and oxygen content? Thanks, norm Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 14:38:46 EDT From: vella at tvrisc.timeplex.com (Jim Vella 470 XXXX ) Subject: North Jersey Suppliers I am new to homebrewing and would like to know if there are some good supply stores in North Jersey, or any good mail order suppliers. Please respond to vella at tvrisc.timeplex.com Thanks - Jim Vella ############################################################ # James F. Vella # ascom Timeplex # # (vella at tvrisc.timeplex.com) # 470 Chestnut Ridge Road # # 201-391-6000 X6707 # Woodcliff Lake, N.J. 07675 # ############################################################ Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 13:24:39 EDT From: sdlsb.dnet!73410%sdlcc at swlvx2.msd.ray.com (Omega) Subject: Krush-off / help Hi all, First, thanks to Patrick Sobalvarro and the Boston Wort Processors for the Krush-off info. I now know which mill I will buy when the time comes. On to the question. I am currently extract brewing, and am attempting my first lager. It is based on the Pilsner Urquell clone on page 2-7 of the Cat's Meow (2nd ed.) with variations due to on my local supplier's advice and stock. This is what I used: 5# Briess light malt syrup 1.75# Briess Gold dry malt extract 15.5 AAU Saaz Wyeast #2007 into 26 oz. ~1.040 starter 48 hours before pitching Added 1/3 of the hops at 60, 30, and 10 minutes. Chilled the concentrated wort (2 gallons) to 70F, added to 2.5 gal. of 70F water, pitched entire starter (made from more of the Breiss Gold) and topped off to 5 gal. with more 70F water. Swirled to mix. O.G. 1.026, when I expected closer to 1.050. This is the first time I have used a hydrometer (out of five batches). I did correct for temperature. What am I missing here? Private email please to 73410 at sdlcc.msd.ray.com. Happy Brewing, Carl Howes Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1993 15:23:19 -0500 From: steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick) Subject: Novice all-grainer's comments Now that I have three all-grain batches under my belt (not literally, yet!), I thought I should pass on a couple of the problems I've encountered and solved for the benefit for other new all-grainers. On my first two batches I encountered significant cooling (>5 degrees over 1.5 hours) during mashing in a 5 gallon Gott cooler. On my last batch I encountered no cooling during a one hour mash. The trick is to preheat the mash tun; I did this by filling the tun with hot tap water while heating up the mash water (I do a single infusion mash). Also, I used US 2-row Klages for the last batch and experienced much faster conversion (<45 mins) than my other two batches which used English Pale Ale malt, presumably due to the higher enzymatic activity of the Klages malt. (Has anyone encountered any flavor differences between these grains?) I also experienced very slow sparges (2 hours for 5 gallons) during my first two batches. On this last batch, the sparge slowed to a trickle so drastic action was called for. I dumped the mash out of my combined mash/lauter tun (the above Gott cooler with Phil's false bottom), and discovered that the mash had gotten under the false bottom. After removing the mash from under the false bottom and dumping it back in the tun, I was able to run the sparge as fast as I wanted. I believe the mash was getting under the false bottom during the intense stirring of mash-in. To solve this problem I may use a separate cooler for mashing and transfer the mash into the lauter tun at the end of conversion. Hope this helps prevent someone else from encountering these problems. Steve Zabarnick Steve Zabarnick steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil OR zabarnic at udavxb.oca.udayton.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1993 15:54:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Ligas <ligas at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca> Subject: Dave Barry observations (fwd) - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1993 13:28:37 -0400 From: NAME <ECLEMENT at ADMIN2.MEMST.EDU> Subject: Dave Barry observations >From Dave B's column yesterday, all about the new standard for testing soap scum cleaner. "Oh sure, you've seen TV commercials wherein the Cheerful Housewife, standing in a bathroom the size of Radio City Music Hall, waltzes up to a scum-encrusted tile, sprays it with a cleanser, and then wipes it off to reveal a sparkling shine. But these commercials are not filmed on Earth; they're filmed on the Commercial Planet, where everything is different; where fast-food-chain employees really are happy to serve you; where there is some meaningful difference between Coke and Pepsi; and where "light" beer does not taste like weasel spit." Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 93 15:52:48 PDT From: Robert Pulliam <Robert_Pulliam at rand.org> Subject: Chillers, Yeast, and Stout Greetings, Just wanted to drop a note of thanks and ask a couple of questions. First of all thanks to all who gave me info on counterflow chillers a couple of months ago. I finally got around to building one last weekend and it worked great in the test (boiling water) run. It is 30 ft of counterflow with an additional 15 ft immersed in ice water. The water was siphoned and the whole 5 gal took approximately 33 minutes (any way to speed that up?) I left a small amount of flame on the burner to ensure that the water continued to simmer throughout the entire process. It took the boiling water down to 55 degrees (great for lagers I guess.) I plan to try it without the ice bath to see what the temp change is. Anyway, thanks again. Secondly, a question or two. I plan on brewing a pale ale this weekend and a stout next weekend. I would like (read only enough money allotted by the wife) to generate a starter from a WYeast packet that would work well for both brews. Any suggestions? Also, I am looking for an all grain recipe for a Murphy's stout. Anyone? Class, class. Anyone? Robert J. Pulliam |+|all thoughts, statements, and opinions,|+| Los Angeles, CA. |+|demented or not, should be my own; and |+| pulliam at monty.rand.org |+|I'm certainly not associated . . . . . |+| Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 21:59:59 PDT From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com> Subject: Two Hop Topics There has been a bit of discussion here lately about two hop topics: gravity vs. utilization and dry hop bitterness. Gravity vs. Utilization: In the research for my book, I have tried to verify the common homebrew wisdom that high gravity *boils* make a difference in the hop utilization by attempting to find references in the commercial brewing literature. I have not been able to find *any* mention that wort *boil* gravity makes any difference in hop utilization. The gravity at the start of *fermentation* does make a difference, meaning that low gravity beers get better utilization than high gravity beers. Note that this is a fermentation effect, not a boil gravity effect, and varies depending on the fermentation technique. Anyway, the *volume* of the boil *will* make a difference, which may explain Norm's comments about needing less hops when switching to all grain (full volume) boils. I asked Gail Nickerson this question ("Does boil gravity affect utilization?") and she said (paraphrasing), "No. Not unless you were boiling a syrup or something of that consistency. And if it did, it would be known because the big boys are all using high gravity brewing techniques these days." To summarize, then, it appears that low boil volume (regardless of the SG) gives less utilization, but *boil* gravity has no effect. But as the gravity of the *fermenting* wort increases, utilization decreases - the amount depends on your fermenting methods. Bitterness from Dry Hopping I am at loss on this one. I, for one, have never noticed it. A lot of brewers report a pronounced *astringency* but not bitterness. This will go away in few weeks. It is possible that some of the alpha acids in the hops had been converted to iso-alphas, but I think this is unlikely. The hops would have gone "cheesy" long before there was significant conversion from ambient heat, etc. It is also possible that oxidized beta acids are the culprit. They are bitter, but again, I would think that the alphas too would have oxidized along with the betas, and we would be back in cheese city. They're also not very soluble. But here's the real issue: Brewer's report a *great deal* of bitterness and they have used 1 oz (or less) of an aroma hop, in a process without heat or agitation. If they used the same amount of hops in the boil, would it have contributed the same amount of "undrinkable" bitterness? I think not. (you have to get way up there to get "undrinkable" IBUs). So what's going on? Obviously something is happening because we have to assume the brewers with the dry hop bitterness are telling the truth and that they're not imagining it. Are they mistaking astringency for bitterness? OTOH, those that report this bitter effect are a minority - a lot of brewers dry hop all the time and never have this effect, not to mention Anchor Liberty and Sam Adams Boston Lager, both of which are dry-hopped. Many, many barrels of these two brews are produced annually with none of these problems. Still, it would be nice to get to the bottom of it. Suggestions? Mark Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1240, 10/05/93