HOMEBREW Digest #1243 Fri 08 October 1993

Digest #1242 Digest #1244

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  A couple of proposed experiments (Conn Copas)
  Re: chill concentrated wort (Jim Grady)
  Oxidation Problems ("Moore, Brian")
  Lambic Beers and U.S. Microbreweries (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  AHA Styles and Reality (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  Low alcohol/near beer ("Bill Kitch")
  Really Cool Cooling ("Moore, Brian")
  Beer Bennies/Pyramid Yeast? (John Brooks)
  Re: Victorian Ales (Paul deArmond)
  Re: Krush-Off extract (Bill Slack)
  Request for homebrew suppliers (Robert Jordan)
  malt mills (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
  homebrew (oldforg4)
  Is mashing-out necessary? (chris campanelli)
  Crushoff/Extraction Rate (Jack Schmidling)
  specialty items question (Kip Damrow)
  cleaning tips repost (Chris Pencis)
  Lambic beers & U.S. Microbreweries (msharp)
  dry hopping bitterness / Holiday Ale (F. G. Patterson Jr.)

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 10:35:34 BST From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk> Subject: A couple of proposed experiments Here's some easy experiments for some intrepid soul to perform in order to sort out two current controversies: On the 'dry hopping causing bitterness' thing, I occasionally make test brews that involve pouring boiling water onto a mixture of extract and pellets in a 1L, pre-heated glass bottle. This mix is then fermented, naturally enough with the hops left in, and definitely turns out bitter. The hot wort spends about 10 mins cooling down from something like 85C to 60C, which theoretically should cause little isomerisation. Experiment - do the same, but filter the hops out prior to fermentation, and note the difference. Experiment 2: > The perfect grist for mashing would be molecule sized particles of malt from > which all the husk has been removed. It would wet perfectly, disolve > instantly and produce 100% yield of crystal clear wort. Get hold of some wheat malt (which is husk-free) and pulverise it to flour. Use this exclusively in the mash, and note its suitability. - -- Conn V Copas Loughborough University of Technology tel : +44 (0)509 222689 Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre fax : +44 (0)509 610815 Leicestershire LE11 3TU e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas at uk.ac.lut G Britain (Internet):C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 8:13:38 EDT From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com> Subject: Re: chill concentrated wort Sorry to take so long to get back to this but in HBD #1239 (Monday's issue) John Pavao asks whether it is worthwhile to chill concentrated wort before diluting it with a carboy of 3.5 gal of cold water. I brewed for a couple of years this way before going to full batch boils and I personally liked it. For me it took out the worry of oxidation and the task of getting the cold water cold enough that I would be sure that the mixture would be at yeast pitching temps. In addition, transferring chilled wort is a great opportunity to aerate the wort rather than worry about oxidation. I made an immersion chiller from 50' of copper tubing and some siphon tubing and some random fittings all for about $30. I used 50' because some of the plans I had seen called for 40' and 50' was cheaper than 40'. Furthermore, I had no idea what else I would use the extra 10' for and figured it could only help. I know that there have been great debates on the optimal length and I have reached no conclusion myself. - -- Jim Grady |"Root beer burps don't have to be said 'Excuse me'." grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com | Robert Grady, age 4.75 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 93 07:48:00 PDT From: "Moore, Brian" <Moorebw at hvsmtp1.mdc.com> Subject: Oxidation Problems Hello all, I recently entered my first Homebrew competition (the Mid-South Fair in Memphis, TN). I entered an extract based dry stout. It finished second with a score of 32. The main problem that the judges noted was that it had an oxidized aroma. I'm trying to figure out where this oxidation came from. Since this was an extract brew we did nothing I can think of which would introduce HSA. Our brewing procedure was as follows: 1. Put 8 gallon pot on burner, fill with about 6 gallons of water. 2. Started burner and add specialty grains (in grain bag). 3. Remove grain bag when the water is at about 180 or 190 F. 4. When water boils, add the extract (Briess liquid) and the hops. 5. Boil for 45-60 minutes. Insert immersion chiller for the last 5 minutes. 6. Cool to about 75-80 F. 7. Rack the cool wort into the carboy. 8. Shake the **** out of it to aerate it. 9. Pitch the yeast. 10. After about a week, rack it to the secondary (being careful not to splash). 11. For bottling, rack it to a bottling bucket, add priming sugar and bottle. Our bottle filler is one of those clear plastic tubes with the spring loaded white thingy on the end (another version of the clear tube with the spring loaded orange thingy on the end, I guess). This thing does cause the beer to foam a little on it's way into the bottle. My questions are these: 1. Is my bottle filler the culprit in my oxidation problems? If so, is there something better out there? 2. Has anyone out there ever used those oxygen absorbing bottle caps? 3. Is it possible that some extract manufacturers have HSA problems in the manufacture of the extracts? TIA, Brian Moore <moorebw at hvsmtp1.mdc.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 10:49:14 EDT From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: Lambic Beers and U.S. Microbreweries Matthew Evans writes: > 1) Is there any U.S. brewery producing a true lambic beer (besides the > Cranberry Lambic from the Boston Brewing Co)? If not, why not? No, because the only way to produce a true lambic beer is to do it in the right part of Belgium. The local microflora(fauna?) just aren't right anywhere else in the world. Now, Jackson mentions a few breweries who have experimented with "spontaneously fermented" beers in the Lambic chapters of _The Great Beers of Belgium_ and _The Beer Companion_, but I don't at the moment recall if any are in the U.S. One was in Britain. > 2) I've read before that the various yeasts and bacteria needed for lambic > beers are available in the US, but where is a good commercial source (or > free source) of these microrganisms? Yes, no, maybe. The Brettanomyces cultures are available from G.W. Kent, which is a wholesaler, so you have to get your local HB supplier to order them. Sheaf & Vine (email to Al Korzonas (korz at iepubj.att.com)) also has some cultures (Brett and Pedio). Nobody seems to have the appropriate Lactobacillus cultures, unless you can get it from a fellower HBer. For doing it yourself, the first thing you should do is to run out and buy a copy of _Lambic_ from the Classic Beer Styles series. If it's not at your local HB store, pick up any issue of Zymurgy, you'll find a publications catalog in the center. > 4) Are there any good publications about microbreweries? Particularly I'm > interested in getting some start up information for an Entrepreneurial > Business class at school. Call the AAB (Association of Brewers). They have a number of publications directed at microbrewers (for a fee, of course). Also listed in the catalog in Zymurgy. =S Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 09:55:37 -0500 From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965) Subject: AHA Styles and Reality I've recently gotten hold of the _Zymurgy_ Special Issue on Traditinal Beer Styles, and I've got a couple of questions or comments or something. 8-) I like to make a brown ale, patterned after _Pete's_. I've made three batches, #2 being the most successful, so far as taste is concerned. The grist was as follows: 7# DeWolf Ale 8L 56L 1# DeWolf Munich 3L 3L 1# CaraVienne 22L 22L 1# CaraMunich 72L 72L 6oz Chocolate 498L 174L ---- 327L / 5.75 gallons = 56.9L In a 5.75 gallon batch, the color is 57L. Note that the Chocolate is about 3.5% of the grist, and provides about half of the color. The OG = 1060. It seems to me that this brew was indeed a lot like _Pete's_. The AHA style guideline says OG 1040 - 1055, and color 15 - 22 SRM. My understanding is that SRM approximately equals Lovibond. In the text describing the American Brown Ale style, it says that up to 5% of the grist can be Chocolate. Well folks, if you do that, you'll blow the color every time. Observe: 10# DeWolf Ale 8L 80L .1# Chocolate 498L 50L (1%) ------ 130L / 5.75 gallons = 23L That's as light as I can make it, there's no crystal, and its still too dark for the guidelines (OK, just barely, but I think the point is made). I don't think this brew would be very much like any American Brown Ale I've ever tried. If you use 5% Chocolate, you'll end up quite dark at 57L, but you'll still not have any crystal. In the back of the same special issue, there are recipies for the competition winners. I made a rough calculation of the color the Brown Ale category winner came out, and I came up with 35L, too dark for the style guidelines. His OG was reported as 1062. So, here we have a national competition *winner* falling well outside the guidelines. What gives?? Are the AHA guidelines reliable? And if you can win an AHA competition without coming particularly close to the guidelines, why have them in the first place? Part of my reason for asking is that I might like to enter competitions myself, and I may also be interested in the AHA BJCP. But observations like this make me wonder whether it would be worthwhile. If the goal of the competition is to demonstrate brewing prowess, independent of whether the brew actually pleases anyone, well, then the style parameters make some sense. But in that case, wou wouldn't even classify a beer into a category when its missed color, gravity, or IBUs specified for the category. In other words, the competition coordinator looks at the stated parameters and says "this can't be considered Brown Ale, so it won't even be entered into competition." and the judges would never taste it (no matter how good it might be). In an ideal world, the physical characteristics would actually be measured at the competition site, but I guess its hard to borrow an HPLC from the lab for the weekend 8-) If the point is to look for the beer that is most pleasing, then I think the distinctions are too fine, and the parameters too narrow. If there's a third possibility, I'm not sure what it would be. Anyway, what I'm getting at is the guidelines and the brew that won (in that category, that year) seem to be at odds. And I'm sure that if I look, I'll find more examples. Can we generate some discussion on this topic? I think it'd be very helpful... t ============================================================================= Tom Leith InterNet: trl at wuerl.WUstl.EDU 4434 Dewey Ave. CompuServe: 70441,3536 St. Louis, Missouri 63116 "Tho' I could not caution all 314/362-6965 - Office I still might warn a few: 314/362-6971 - Office Fax Don't lend your hand 314/481-2512 - Home + Infernal Machine to raise no flag atop no Ship of Fools" ============================================================================= Return to table of contents
Date: 6 Oct 93 16:35:15-0400 From: MATTHEW.BOHNE at sprint.sprint.com Subject: IMPERIAL STOUT DOES ANYONE HAVE A GOOD RECIPE FOR IMPERIAL STOUT ? I TRIED THE ONE IN THE "BREWERS BIBLE" BUT IT turned out rather bitter... Any suggestions? I would love to brew some Moss Stout (brewed in Seattle) any ideas? Carboy Dieum (G) Matthew Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 10:15:56 -0600 (CST) From: "Bill Kitch" <kitchwa at bongo.cc.utexas.edu> Subject: Low alcohol/near beer Does anyone have a procedure for producing low or no alcohol carbonated malt beverages? My intial thought is to: 1) brew in the normal fashion 2) heat to evaporate the alcohol 3) cool 4) add priming sugar and fresh yeast 5) bottle Is this reasonable? Has anyone tried this? Did it work? Sante' WAK Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 93 10:26:00 PDT From: "Moore, Brian" <Moorebw at hvsmtp1.mdc.com> Subject: Really Cool Cooling Well here goes, I've been reading the cooling debate in the previous few HBD's with much interest. Everyone seems to be on the wort chiller path. Has anyone ever tried just dropping a chunk (golf-ball sized maybe?) of dry ice into their hot wort? I've never tried it but have often contemplated it. There seems to be a veritable plethora of benefits: 1. Quick cooling 2. Cheap 3. All natural CO2 (?) 4. If it works anything like dry ice does in punch, maybe all of the break material would freeze into a big ball around the dry ice and you could just lift it out. Obviously you would want to aerate the wort with an airstone or something to get oxygen back in for the yeast. Is commercial dry ice pure CO2 or are there other nasties in there? On the surface, this seems to be a neat idea so please don't flame me too badly. I'd like to try this but I'm afraid to ruin a batch of beer. Maybe if somebody else already has, they could stop me. Thanks, Brian Moore Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 07:56:56 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brooks <jbrooks at u.washington.edu> Subject: Beer Bennies/Pyramid Yeast? The following was reported in the Seattle Times, entitled "Beer Bennies": "Oh, to work for Hale's Ales. The company, with breweries in Kirkland and Spokane, is preparing to take all its employees on three week "education tours" of European suds makers. This Mother of All Bennies marks the firm's 10th anniversary. Mike Hale produced his first ale in Colville, and he now markets 13 draft ales throughout Washington. The firm will take two groups of seven employees on tours of English, Belgian and German breweries. One stop: Gales Ales in Horndean, England, where Hale worked in 1982 before starting his business. Of course, the trip coincides with Munich's Oktoberfest. Hale dryly notes in a press release that the tours `won't be work.'" By the way, Hale's makes excellent products, especially their rich, biting "Moss Bay Extra." They also have a great T-shirt with their mallard duck logo. *********************************** On another Northwest related subject, Pyramid Ales of Kalama, Washington, perhaps best known for its "Wheaten (tm) Ale," makes a large number of other superior beers including a double-yeasted Hefeweisen. One of my favorites is their "Wheaten Bock Ale" (O.G. 1.061) which is made with five malted grains and Mt. Hood Hops. I am going to try a clone and through some rather involved reconnaissance have managed to come up with a close approximation of the grain mix. My missing link is the yeast. Pyramid claims to use the same "proprietary" ale yeast on all of their brews (the Hefeweisen is filtered before undergoing a secondary fermentation with a Danish lager yeast, which settles in the bottle). My initial impulse was to try Wyeast chico/american (1056) or german alt (1007). I recall reading "net lore" that Sierra Nevada probably got their yeast from Anchor, that Pete's probably got their yeast from Sierra Nevada, etc. Does anyone know about the source of the Pyramid strain or have an educated guess as to a suitable substitute? Replies by private e-mail or postings both OK. John Brooks University of Washington (206) 543-9149 P.S. - I have an acquaintance who works for a door and window distributor called Reeb Distributing, Inc. Their motto (which is on his business card and their logo jackets) is: "REEB - we're BEER spelled backwards." ****************************************************************** Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 08:12:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul deArmond <paulf at henson.cc.wwu.edu> Subject: Re: Victorian Ales Victorian Ales flourished during the last century, rising to prominence in the 1830's and dying off in 1900, when they were replaced by the Edwardian Ales (a much rowdyier and less inhibited ale.) The Victorian Ales maintained a world-wide Empire. Indeed, it was said that the sun never set on a Victorian Ale. Two of the largest Imperial colonies, India and Canada, developed their own ales. Several other areas under the influence of Victorian Ales were quite important to trade, but never established their own brewing recognition. Two of the most notable brewing failures were Crimean Ale (very bitter and with an indecisive finish, but notable for the Charge of the Light Beergade, of which it was said, "It's magnificent, but it's not beer." ) and the First and Second Afghan Brews (of which the first was a complete disaster.) One of the notable and lasting characteristics of the Victorian Ales was their curious moral double-standard. While being very ostentatious in church-going, psalm-singing, founding societies for the reformation of fallen brews, establishing the Boy Stouts, and declaiming on the "Pale Ale's Burden", the Victorian Ales were not above mistreating natives (leading in India to the Carboy Rebellion), visiting child brothels or being whipped to a frothy head with birches. The origianl Victorian Ale was blended with the lesser known Albertian Ale, which was of German origin. One of the results of this marriage was the Edwardian Ale mentioned above. The Albertian Ales never really caught on, but their influence may be seen in the current British Lagers. for more information on the Victorian Ales, refer to the _Flashman_ books by George MacDonald Frasier.... Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 11:37:01 EDT From: wslack.UUCP!wrs at mv.MV.COM (Bill Slack) Subject: Re: Krush-Off extract Jim Busch asks about the extract efficiency from the various mills at the Krush-Off: Unfortunately, the crushes were not individually mashed. About 16 pounds of the Krush-Off residue was mashed in one batch with 2# crystal and 1# Cra-Pils and after a 75 minute infusion at 154F, a fifteen minute mashout and a normal sparge, it yielded an eleven gallon wort of 1.048 starting gravity. So I guess you could figure the_average_ extract efficiency. ;-) Doing a club brew-in from the contest remains was as much fun as the contest itself. We made three batches using Young's ale yeast, a Weihenstephan Alt yeast and some of the new, improved Red Star (one gallon test batch). Haven't tasted them yet. Bill __ wrs at gozer.mv.com (Bill Slack) Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 12:19:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert Jordan <JORDAN at ANLBEM.BIM.ANL.GOV> Subject: Request for homebrew suppliers I've been reading the homebrew digest for several months now, and have been gathering as much information on homebrewing as I can. So I'm ready to take the plunge as it were and get started. However, I'm having trouble finding a good list of mail-order homebrew suppliers. I would appreciate anyone sending me the address and/or number of the supply places they use. Private replies are fine. Thanks in advance-- Robert Jordan jordan at anlbem.bim.anl.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 13:14:33 -0500 (CDT) From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570) Subject: malt mills Thanks to the Boston homebrewers for their work. With all respect, for those doing comparisons, I suggest evaluating the crush blind and using a series of screens. If you don't have the screens, it makes for a good club project. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 14:25:37 -0400 From: oldforg4 at nysernet.ORG Subject: homebrew To whomever is listening: Please send me any info. you can about homebrew and or homebrewDigest. Just found you while surfing and am very interested. Any help you could give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Ken D. oldforg4 at nysernet.org Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 12:46 CDT From: akcs.chrisc at vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli) Subject: Is mashing-out necessary? > Subject: Mash out necessary? > > Now, Miller (TCBoHB) is adamant that mash out is absolutely > necessary. Others are less certain. Hey, it's going to be > boiling in a few minutes anyway. What are the opinions from HBD > land? > > Domenick Venezia > YES! ROO-ROO-ROO. Stand back! Make Way! Spread out! Free- thinker comin' through here! I hereby nominate Mr. Domenick Venezia to be considered for acceptance into the Brotherhood Of Question Authority Types. It's heartening to see someone question The Word. It is my personal opinion that there are WAY too many homebrewing books, written by fornicating self-proclaimed experts, and not enough . . . oh never mind. Suffice to say I'm one homebrewer who has yet to be convinced that mashing-out is necessary. In fact, I think that mash-outs are an unnecessary step. Oh sure, I here the sniveling arguments of the imprisoned. They usually fall into one of two categories: "You have to stop enzyme activity" -or- "it allows you to obtain consistent results". Oh PUH-leez. If you skip mash-out, how much extra starch conversion actually takes place while you sparge? Is it noticeable? And if this additional conversion IS noticeable then wouldn't you welcome the extra extract? Consistent results? Huh? Just how does mashing-out produce consistent results. Go ahead and throw stones. Me and Dom think the Emperor's new clothes suck. We're standing-up and farting in the general direction of homebrewing dogma. Well, at least I am. Dom? chris campanelli Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 13:46 CDT From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) Subject: Crushoff/Extraction Rate More on bodymen...... Jim Bush suggests that it would be nice to know the extraction rates of the various test brews and I suggest that it may be nice but not terribly useful unless they were conducted under controlled conditions. He also points out that his rate of extracton went down when he switched from commercially milled grain to a Corona and back up again when he started using a MM. That warms the cockles of my heart but I have long felt that extraction rate has far more to do with the equipment and process following milling then with the milling itself. I am in the midst of running controlled experiments to once again test extraction efficiency as a function of the grist. It has always been my opinion that a properly designed mill with fixed roller spacing will provide the same extract efficiency as an adjustable one set up to produce an industry standard type of grist. I offer an adjustable mill as an option because people think they need it. I don't doubt that, in large commercial batches, with the equipment they are stuck with using, that grist will have an effect on yield but on small batches the difference falls within the measurement error. I run these tests on my one gallon pilot system and when using one lb of malt, the gravity for one gallon reads directly in pts/lb/gal. The three tests just concluded, used l lb of Belgian Pils malt and the following mash schedule: doughin 2000 ml water at 110F for 15 minutes mash at 155F for 45 min mashout at 170F for 10 min sparge to one gallon with 180F water The first two tests were on a fixed mill and an adjustable, set to provide industry standard grist. The results were within the measurement error. The fixed mill sample read 1.031 and the adjustable may have been 1 point higher but on a hydrometer with a resolution of 2 points per division, I would call it a draw. The next test was inspired by Jim's comments on the Corona and I ran a test on the grist from my Corona. However, ignoring all the wisdom of the Corona fans, I set the mill to produce flour. The rotating plate pressed against the fixed plate hard enough to require considerable force to turn with no grain in the mill. It required a great deal of effort to crank with grain in it and I am glad I only had to do one pound. The grist looked like coarse flour with some recognizable husk material but it was just random slivers. I ran the sample through the same process as above and got exactly the same results. 31 pts/lb/gal. This did not surprise me but I had to do it to prove the point to the skeptical. What did surprise me, was the fact that, of the three jugs of wort produced, the Corona produced the most transparent. The very fine husk material, did indeed to a better job of filtering. So, whence the bogyman? It is my contention that the bogyman is in the mash/lauter tun and not the grain mill. Fortunately, I also sell the mash/lauter tun that makes all this possible. But back to mills, buy the one that turns you on, forget the "crush-offs" and give some serious thought to pushing beyond the traditional plastic buckets and picnic coolers. js Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 11:29:09 PDT From: kdamrow at Thomas.COM (Kip Damrow) Subject: specialty items question Hi there, Does anyone know of any catalogs for specialy items such as: glassware, unique bottles, microbrewery stuff, brewery related clothing. (BTW, I'm not looking for brewing supplies) Thanks, Kip Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 15:40:47 CDT From: chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu (Chris Pencis) Subject: cleaning tips repost Just a quick note relating responses to my cleaning tips question, here are a few ideas which may help some of you make your brewing (cleaning) process a little more painless (note, these are ideas used by those who submitted them, not just crazy ramblings) - one idea: use plastic buckets for primary and rack off the trub into a carboy for the secondary - this leaves most of the gunk in an easy to reach place. -use an immersible pump to drive sanitizing solution into bottles with a hose, use same pump out of water to drive air in...use low concentration iodaphor which need not be rinsed -put clean bottles in dishwasher for *sterilization*, use a little bleach and heat drying (I assume rinsing in the dishwasher will get rid of the bleach), Also, open dishwasher and bottle on the door, all spillage goes in the washer (note: this is not to remove labels etc.) -one reply suggested the popular spray bottle washers available, or the construction of a homemade carboy washer from a plugged up section of garden hose with holes punched in the end near the plug (use bolt as plug) - when draining bottles and carboys, turn the container over and give a little clockwise twirl and the water will drain out in a vortex, allowing air in and giving a faster drain (assumes northern hemisphere :)) Thanks to Jack, Drew, Norm, and Chris for their responses, any others who wish to add their $.02 are greatly encouraged to do so to the address below. Chris ====================================================================== |Chris Pencis chips at coleslaw.me.utexas.edu | |University of Texas at Austin Robotics Research Group | ====================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 14:09:02 PDT From: msharp at Synopsys.COM Subject: Lambic beers & U.S. Microbreweries - ----- Begin Included Message ----- Matthew Evans <matt at cadif.cornell.edu> writes: > Subject: Lambic Beers and U.S. Microbreweries > > I've got a couple questions, hopefully someone out there knows the answer > to these questions: Content-Length: 3703 In general, the best place for lambic questions is the lambic digest. Subscription requests can be sent to: lambic-request@ longs.lance.colostate.edu > 1) Is there any U.S. brewery producing a true lambic beer (besides the > Cranberry Lambic from the Boston Brewing Co)? To the best of my knowledge no U.S. brewery is producing anything close to a traditional lambic. I have just started to work with a very well known/respected pub brewer on making a pseudo-lambic as a specialty beer. Don't expect to see it anytime soon. Also, don't bother asking me who 'cause I'm not going to say until he announces the batch publicly. > Why not? Assuming for a minute that you mean a pseudo-lambic (real lambics can only be made just outside of Belgium due to the necessary wild fermentation), the first reasons that come to mind are: o lambics are made using wild yeasts and bacterias that will most likely cause endless problems with 'regular' batches o lambics must be aged for considerably long periods of time resulting in high cost and low throughput o most pub-goers are content to drink whatever piss flows out of the tap as it is (though there are some _very_ good pubs there are a few in my geographic area that amaze me as far as their ability to stay in business for so long with such sh*t products) so why waste time & money on an expensive and difficult style when you can cut corners, and make sh*t and money at the same time? (no, I'm not naming names, but I bet some can guess) o nobody really knows how to make a lambic outside of Brussels. everything done by the readership of the lambic digest is just experimentation and has hardly scratched the surface of the knowledge necessary to brew such a beer commercially with any guarantee of success and repeatability. o lambics require (traditionally) cooperage & thats not cheap o lots of other issues I'll just let pass so this isn't a whole digest in itself. > 2) I've read before that the various yeasts and bacteria needed for lambic > beers are available in the US, but where is a good commercial source (or > free source) of these microrganisms? Cultures are easiest to find by special order from G.W.Kent through your local retailer. You must be patient when ordering, there are occationally cycles [like now] when the cultures are backordered. > 3) Has anyone tried making a homebrewed lambic in small batches. If you > have I would really like to talk to you about the process, as Kriek Lambic is > my favorite beer and I would like to duplicate the sour bite found only in > lambic beers. See the comment on the lambic digest above, "Lambic" by J-X Guinard (Classic Beer Styles #3), and the paper Martin Lodahl & I wrote for Beer+Brewing for the Miwaukee Conference (sorry, don't remember the volume #). > 4) Are there any good publications about microbreweries? Particularly I'm > interested in getting some start up information for an Entrepreneurial > Business class at school. > > 5) Finally, in this long list of questions, does anyone have the number for > the Celis brewery in Texas that makes Belgian style beers? These two have me confused... Are you trying to open a lambic pub/micro brewery? If so we should talk off line 'cause you need a reality check with respect to markets and how quickly you'll be out of business. (yes, I know that sounds harsh, but better to hear it now than find out later) If you're really just confused about lambics vs. Belgian Wits (Celis) than you should get onto the lambic mailing list because we're having a discussion about Belgian Wits right now. --Mike (your friendly lambic digest coordinator/founder) - ----- End Included Message ----- Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1993 00:05:27 -0400 From: patterso at mason1.gmu.edu (F. G. Patterson Jr.) Subject: dry hopping bitterness / Holiday Ale Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu> writes: > >Recently, I tried my first dry hop, ... and found a very pronounced excess >bitterness. I compared this to the other half of the batch, which had >not been dry hopped, and which did not have this bitterness. So, the >bitterness was a result of the dryhopping. > >Questions: >Is this simply a temporary bitterness that will soon mellow? Or can >dry hopping really add noticeable bitterness? Did I over dryhop? >How many IBU's can/should dry hops introduce? I read that your batch mellowed (lost bitterness) in 8 days. My batch did not. I dry hopped a batch of pale ale with Hallertau hops (actually I added the hops immediately at the end of the boil after turning off the fire). The result is the first batch of beer in 15 years of brewing that is so bad that I am actually pouring it down the drain. (I should save the drain and pour it directly into the sewer.) It is severely bitter and, frankly, the aroma is not all that great. The hops were allowed to remain in the wort for 7 days. BRUCE at ARVAX.Syntex.Com writes: >Subject: Christmas Ale Recipies? > >Greetings! > >Looks like it's about time to start those Christmas Ales .... >My point is, I'm looking for some Cristmas Ale recipies .... Don't overlook the Cat's Meow recipes, especially the one that I have copied below. I substituted 1 oz of Hallertau Hops for the extra hops in the recipe; also I added an ADDITIONAL 1 teaspoon of GROUND Cinnamon, and I used only 3 cloves in all. This recipe turned out to be superb! I made it 4 weeks ago for Thanksgiving, and it is half gone already. Note that it makes only 4-5 six-packs of ale. > Quick & Easy Spiced Brown Ale > > Source: Jeff Benjamin (benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com) > Issue #985, 10/7/92 > > Ingredients: > > MountMellick Brown Ale Kit > 3-4 whole cloves > 3 whole cinnamon sticks > 1/4 teaspoon, nutmeg > 4 oranges > 1/8 cup, fresh Hallertau hops (leaf) > > Procedure: > > Simmer spices, hops, and zest of 1 orange in 1 quart water for 30-45 > minutes. Make brown ale according to 3.6 gallon recipe. Add spice > mixture (do not strain) and zest of other three oranges to wort. > Ferment, strain, and bottle according to kit instructions. > > Comments: > > Since everyone is gearing up to make Xmas brews (including me), here's > an easy recipe that turns out extremely good. I'm normally an all-grain > brewer, but it's easier to make large quantities of extract brews for > parties and things, and the spices tend to cover up some of the extract > qualities. Of course, you could use the same spicing technique for an > all-grain batch, too. > > Remember to go easy on the spices. The flaw with a lot of commercial > Xmas brews is that the spices overwhelm the flavor of the beer rather > than complement it. > > The flavors balance very nicely after only a short aging time, but it > gets better after a couple of months. An excellent holiday beer. PAT PATTERSON Fairfax, Virginia Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1243, 10/08/93