FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  cold chillin' (Mark Bunster)
  Old Bay Holiday Homebrew Contest (gcw)
  Astringency (Jack Schmidling)
  beer label software (robl)
  hands across the border (Carl Howes)
  HSA (Carl Howes)
  Golden Syrup/Black Treacle ("Robert H. Reed")
  Making Hard Cider (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  Sour Noonan (Jeff Frane)
  Twist Off Tops (Todd Jennings)
  Dry Hopping and Infections (Dan Wood)
  American Brown Ale (Troy Howard)
  Beer Analysis (Kieran O'Connor)
  HSA (Carl Howes)
  Re: Treacle & Other Brit Sugars (Lynn Kerby)
  Pitch timing (korz)
  The Crabtree Effect (Steve Zabarnick)
  Golden Syrup (Nathan Justus)
  Re: barleywine (Larry Barello)
  Beer Labels ( Doug Lethin)
  dry hopping/hops as preservatives (d_simon)
  1994 Bluebonnet Brew-off (d_simon)
  Xmas beer tasting (part 2) (Alan B. Carlson)
  Xmas beer tasting (part 1) (Alan B. Carlson)
  Zymurgy proof reading ("Anton Verhulst")
  help needed carbonating lagers (Greg D Blankenship)
  Re: Volcano Beer (Fritz Keinert)
  hops address (RONALD DWELLE)
  Invert Sugar (Drew Lynch)
  Re: Fruit Beer (Jeff Benjamin)
  Avoiding tannin extraction/Lambics (korz)
  Updated Yeast.FAQ in the Archives! (WEIX)
  beginner (James Clark)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 14:10:10 EST
From: Mark Bunster <mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu>
Subject: cold chillin'

More tidbits--so much info to um, digest...


* >Also, I considered the crabtree effect a good reason to abandon corn
* >sugar, but of course there are other good reasons to stick with it.
* >One must balance everything.  Some people are quite happy carbonating with
* >sterile wort or kraeusen, and for lager there is no topping the latter
* >method (IMHO).  Even Anheuser-Busch do it!!
* 
* Did I slam Carl for abandoning corn sugar?  No, I just posted what I did
* and some of my reasoning.  Frankly, IMHO, your opinions don't sound so
* humble.
* 
Now, play nicely, first of all.
Second of all, Papazian seems to poo poo the use of corn sugar, and I've
certainly tasted the results of using too much (assuming that's what made it
so cidery), but he (Pap) does allow for reasonable use below 30% of all
fermentable sugars. --Sidequestion-- in priming our bottle of IPA last night,
we used a mix of corn sugar (1/4 cup), LME (3/4#) and honey (2 tbsp) for a
five gallon. When trying to figure out total fermentable sugars, how on EARTH
does one reconcile the different units of measure, or at least compute the
total amount of ferm. sugars??
It (sugar) certainly does the job of giving one good carb and boosting pot.
alcohol, and it's cheaper than dumping additional extract for priming, but
you can overdo it. I suspect it's just another one of those things up for
reasonable debate, EXCEPT: you are not making a Rheinheitsgebot beer when you
use corn sugar, for what that's worth to you.


* Has anyone else had any good or bad experiences carrying homebrew onto a
* plane?  Or, for that matter, checking homebrew in their luggage?
* 
Some kind gent in the aviation industry has noted that pressurization extends
to the cargo bays for structural reasons, so you should be safe either way
you want to pack it.

* In my last posting in 1271 I mentioned the recommendation in Papazian to
* pour the hot wort in cold water in a carboy as being bad advice and
* received a number of worried responses, to some of whom email responses
* bounced.  I'll quote Charlie himself, RDWHAHB.  While this procedure
* is not correct - chilling in a bathtub or with a wort chiller prior to
* pouring is recommended, the amount of damage that could be expected due
* to hot side aeration is so slight that it is unlikely to be noticable.
* __________________________________________________________________________


While bottling that IPA I spoke of earlier, we began our first lagering
attempt, having gotten a fridge to run at temps below 60. Anyway, we did what
the fella above recommended--bringing the boilpot directly from stove to tub
full of water and blue ice (this will save some money on ice for sure). After
about 15 minutes it went to fermenter with 3 gal cold water (I know, I know,
soon we'll go buy a pot that will allow for full volume boils) and was
immediately pitching-ready. I would say for maximum compromise betwene full
volume boil and the advantage of having the cold water help cool the wort,
maybe a 4 gal - 1 gal makes good sense. It's primitive, but for us
nontinkerers who are too poor to buy and too stupid to build a cf or
immersion chiller, it works quite well and goes faster than we imagined.

And finally, my perception of the heinousness of Papazian's wort-into-water
error was not that you risk HSA but having your carboy crack and break from
the temperature change. 

Peace all, from the city where Clear Beer was testmarketed and unfortunately
received rave reviews.


*         Second question.  I have seen some plastic "kegs" in  local
* home-brew shop which come from Europe.  Supposedly, they can be used to
* carbonate in and draft beer from.  Has anyone tried these?  They seem like
* only a glorified beer ball.
* 
Oh yeah, this makes me think of the Beer Machine question. I think the guy
who recommended buying one was thinking of its utility as a dispenser only.
If anyone tries it let us know how it works for you. Yeah, I couldn't imagine
drinking a Ronco-beer and having it taste good.



- -- 
Mark Bunster                      |Exchange conversation if you dare-- 
Survey Research Lab--VCU          |Share an empty thought or a laugh.
Richmond, VA 23220                |
mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu            |
(804) 367-8813/353-1731           |                          -edFROM

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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 15:23 EST
From: gcw at lydian.att.com
Subject: Old Bay Holiday Homebrew Contest

The Old Bay in New Brunswick, NJ is having their annual "Holiday
Homebrew Contest" on Dec. 11th. The categories are Ale, Lager, Speciality
and Holiday - $5 and 2 bottles per entry - all entry fees go to the
local food banks. The celebrity judging panel to include:

			Carol Stoudt
			Sal Pennacchio
			Jay Mission
			Jim Lutz
			Fran Mead

Deliver your enties to the Old Bay, 61 Church Street, New Brunswick, NJ 
908-246-3111. The Old Bay has 10-12 micros on tap, great cajun/creole
food and live blues music at night. Say hello to Chris the bar manager
when you get there!.

					Geoff Woods

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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 14:54 CST
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Astringency

 
 >From: GANDE at slims.attmail.com
 
 >Further to this one could assume that it would be OK to sparge with
 boiling water, which is accurate as long as your grain bed pH doesn't
 raise above 5.3, ideally. In the real world, sparging raises mash pH
 towards the end of the run and continuing to rinse with boiling water
 would leach out tannins.
 
 That's a nice number but like so many things, it is only a bench mark.  What 
 if the pH rose to 5.4 or 5.7... would it make a detectable difference?  I 
 doubt it.
 
 >I made a mini-grain-tea-bag, boiled it for 10 minutes in tap water
 (pH 7.0) and it was what I would call astringent.  That's enough
 proof for me.  ;)
 
 All that says is that boiling tap water with a pH of 7.0 will make astringent 
 tea.   As you did not convert the starch into sugar, the astringency could 
 just be the way malt tea tastes without the sweetening effect of conversion.
 
 In the real world, sparge water is run through the mash which has a powerful 
 buffering effect on the water.   I run 10 or more gallons of pH 7 sparge 
 water through my mash and it doesn't raise the pH more than a tenth point or 
 so.  Furthermore, sparge water temp is not the same as mash temp nor does it 
 bear any relationship to making tea with boiling water.  
 
 Finally, it does not address the fact that boiling grain in decoction mashing 
 does not seem to produce astringent beer.
 
 js

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Date: 	Wed, 17 Nov 1993 12:51:34 -0800
From: robl <ROBL at outside.com>
Subject:      beer label software

>Dion asked about inexpensive software for designing beer labels

I have used Microsoft "Publisher" with satisfaction.  It allows you to 
curve text instantly and import various bit-mapped images.  Its price 
is around the $100 range or lower, so it should meet the criteria of 
"inexpensive".  I never got a chance to use it in great length but I was 
able to make a "Master" label, I would then go in and change the 
name of the particular brew, I would then have the original artwork 
copied at the printer and I changed ink colors with the various brews.  
Thus keeping things simple, yet each brew had its own look.

I am no longer working where they had the software on the 
network--so I'm forced to learn Coral Draw and triple my learning 
curve, but my labels will improve proportionally with their custom 
"look."  Hope this helps, rob
================
Robert Linder
Crystal Point Inc
phone 206-487-3656 fax 206-487-3773

================

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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 14:24:36 EST
From: sdlsb.dnet!73410%sdlcc at swlvx2.msd.ray.com (Carl Howes)
Subject: hands across the border

The following appeared in #1274 as a uuencoded WordPerfect 5.1 document.
Clear text follows.

Carl

***************
Does anyone know how to sanitize/sterilize a bottle washer. I am
referring to the brass device that attaches to a faucet and
releases a high pressure jet of water into a bottle (or carboy).
This device has a small ball inside the end piece which acts as a
valve to shut off the jet of water when the bottle is removed. It
appears this ball prevents the residual water from draining from
the device after its use. This water seems to be the source of
contamination in a couple of my batches. I am not sure if merely
running water through will flush the contamination. I have tried
injecting bleach into the device followed by an overnight soak
which resulted in the device turning a shade of green.

Any advice or assistance will be appreciated.

Ed Kelly
Saint Mary's University
Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

ekelly at admin.stmarys.ca


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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 14:20:11 EST
From: sdlsb.dnet!73410%sdlcc at swlvx2.msd.ray.com (Carl Howes)
Subject: HSA

Brian (brian at carbon.cor2.epa.gov) wrote:

> ...recent batches of mine have taken several hours to cool (1.5 gallons of
> hot wort added to 3.5 gallons of cold water) to pitching temperatures,
> which has made me nervous about possible infection.

I answered:

> I had the same problem when I used that process.  Since learning about
> Hot Side Aeration (HSA), I now cool the concentrated wort to pitching temp
> before mixing.  Takes 35-45 min by immersing the kettle in cold (45F) tap
> water in my kitchen sink with two water changes.  The hot/cold mixing is
> a piece of bad advice in Papazian's book which I'm sure Al has marked...

Ken (theriaul at sde.mdso.vf.ge.com) responded:

> I have not heard about the "problems" with HSA and have been using the 
> advice from Papazian's book.  Could someone explain why I should use
> the "Papazian" method or direct me to a source for the information.

I answered this privately, but read on.

Ulick (ulick at darwin.cc.nd.edu) wrote:

> While this procedure is not correct - chilling in a bathtub or with a wort
> chiller prior to pouring is recommended, the amount of damage that could be
> expected due to hot side aeration is so slight that it is unlikely to be
> noticable.

I have seen a huge improvement in flavor stability and beer quality since I
started chilling the concentrated wort.  Have you tried it both ways, Ulick?

For the record, I first heard about HSA in this digest with no explanation.
I stumbled across the source of the information when a friend who
(regrettably) had to give up brewing gave me some back issues of Zymurgy.
There is an article by George Fix on the topic in the Winter 1992 issue.

An earlier rendition of this post seems to have vanished in transit.  If it
resurfaces, apologies for the redundancy.

Carl


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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 16:20:26 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert H. Reed" <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Golden Syrup/Black Treacle

 thutt at mail.casi.sti.nasa.gov writes:

> Subject: Treacle & Other Brit Sugars
> 
> 
>       I'm getting tired of seeing the Great Treacle Question posed and
>       pondered time and time again.  In HBD 1273, Bruce Beck wondered
>       what Golden Syrup is (I dunno) and once again mentioned the
>       mysterious Treacle.

>       No, you cannot buy treacle in the U.S., but that is not the full
>       answer.  To get the full answer, we must first find out exactly
>       what Treacle is.


I have used Lyle's Golden Syrup and it has a pleasant mild caramel-like
quality.  Actually I thought its flavor was similar to rock candy. 

You *can* get Lyle's Black Treacle and Golden Syrup in a well stocked
homebrew shop.  My homebrew shop in Indy carries these as well as the 
imported Demararra sugar.


Rob Reed



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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 16:27:17 EST
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com
Subject: Making Hard Cider

Many members of our club make "New England Barrel Cider"

To do we get fresh cider from a local orchard.
Some add sugar , brown or white, to enhance the cidery flavor.
We then pour it in a carboy and let the natural yeast ferment it.
After vigorous fermentation has sudsided it is racked in to a
second carboy to settle.  Raisins or other dried but unpreserved fruit
may be added at this time as well as spices.
Let it settle until spring, then bottle.



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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 13:44:15 -0800 (PST)
From: gummitch at teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Sour Noonan

Interesting to note Greg Noonan's article in the special issue of
Zymurgy.  Noonan is now touting sour mashes as the secret ingredient in
Bavarian weizens and Bohemian pilsners -- in spite of a complete lack of
evidence that they are used at all in those areas.  (The acid rest he
mentions is a matter of a few hours or less, not days.)

Funny.  In his book on lager beers, Noonan insisted that one couldn't
have a real European lager taste without a decoction mash (in spite of
the fact that a good many German breweries were doing infusions).  Now
it's sour mashes.  Wonder what's the next big "secret".

- --Jeff


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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 14:34
From: TODDJ.SRVRHOST at test.readmore.com (Todd Jennings)
Subject: Twist Off Tops

 -


In HBD #1270, Phil Gillman writes:

> I was wondering if pressure differences and retention are the reason 
> that there is a difference in the taste between commercial beers with   


> twist tops and those with opener only tops. any one have another 
> explanantion or support for this one?

Well Phil, I can't say that *I* have noticed a difference in the taste of 


beers based solely on how they are capped.  Maybe my discerning palate 
has not yet developed that far(I'm still a rookie homebrewer).  But your
question *does* raise another one in my mind, something I've noticed 
recently among the craft-brew community.

Lately, many brewers have seemingly abandoned the "opener only" capping   


method in deference to the "twist off" configuration.  Most recent 
additions  to the list of Twist Offers include Pete's Wicked, Sierra 
Nevada & Geary's.

My question is...WHY?  Are these guys worried that we'll get out to the 
picnic ground before we realize we've forgotten our bottle opener?? Or 
are  they worried we homebrewers will hoard their bottles for our own 
selfish purposes?  Or is it possibly cheaper?

Maybe it's just me, but I'm perceiving a trend toward the commercialism 
once pioneered by Augie Busch, Adolph Coors, and all the other nationals 
who were trying to get a leg up on their competition.  With the recent 
advertising brew-ha-ha at BBC, and now this, I'm worried that we may be 
coming to the beginning of the end.  What will be next, rice in place of 
malt??

All shared thoughts on this subject, either direct or posted here, will 
be appreciated.

Todd "Just call me paranoid" Jennings
toddj at readmore.com







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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 16:03:56 CST
From: wood at ranger.rtsg.mot.com (Dan Wood)
Subject: Dry Hopping and Infections

I'm confused.  Nothing new, but maybe you can help.  I realize that I
could have sent this directly to the "Lighthouse of Wisdom and Truth",
but figured someone else might have an opinion.

Anyway, it's pretty clear that the greatest risk of infection is before
fermentation.  No confusion there.  Presumably the bacteria produce bad
flavors, then are overwhelmed by the yeast, PH, and/or alcohol.  Right?

However, the recent dry hop & bacteria thread has made me wonder about
post-ferment.  Some HBD articles have indicated that once fermentation
is complete, the beer is hostile to bacteria, so no worries.

On the other hand, I've read several times that "gushers" are caused by
infections.  The idea there is that the bacteria eat stuff that the
yeast don't, resulting in over carbonation during long term storage.

So, which way is it?

The dry hopping thread sparked my interest, because the only time I've
had a problem with gushers was when I dry hopped.  Two different
batches, plus one of a friends all shared this problem.  We both
abandoned the process after these disasters, but I'll try again if
someone can shed some light here.  Thanks alot.

PS: Jack, when you going to run some experiments with fermenting on the
hot and cold break material?  The momily-busters fan club is getting 
impatient.

Regards,   Dan Wood	wood at rtsg.mot.com

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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 15:06:23 PST
From: troy at scubed.scubed.com (Troy Howard)
Subject: American Brown Ale


Hi all,

I was browsing through Papazian's book last night and noticed he makes
mention of a style called American Brown ale.  Does anyone know any
commercial examples of this style?  I would be interested in trying a
sample.

Thanks loads,


Troy

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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 18:50:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Kieran O'Connor <koconnor at mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Beer Analysis

In the latest issue of Breweing Techniques I saw something interesting: a 
firm which will do beer analysis. I called and here's the poop:

This place will do an analysis of your beer (or any beer for that matter) 
for $24. here's what they do: IBU's, Color (SRM), PH, Titratable Acidity, 
Alcohol, Apparent Extract, Apparent degree of fermentation and original 
extract. Apparently it costs the same to do one as it does the others so 
it $24 for the whole deal

They will ask you how many IBU's you intended in your brew--and you will 
be able to calculate your hop utilization--something which seems to me to 
be worthwhile.

The price is a bit steep--but a club could do this for education--or even 
for contest winning beers.

They promise one week turnaround:

Homebrewers Lab Services
PO Box 269
Whitmore, CA 96096
(916) 472-1240.

Anyone had any expericence--yet?


Kieran O'Connor

E-Mail Address: koconnor at mailbox.syr.edu
Syracuse, N.Y. USA




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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 12:42:52 EST
From: sdlsb.dnet!73410%sdlcc at swlvx2.msd.ray.com (Carl Howes)
Subject: HSA

Ken (theriaul at sde.mdso.vf.ge.com) writes:

>I have not heard about the "problems" with HSA and have been using the 
advice from Papazian's book.  Could someone explain why I should use
the "Papazian" method or direct me to a source for the information.

After responding to this privately I realized that the only reason that
I knew the original source of information on HSA is that I found it by
accident in a friend's back issue of Zymurgy.  So, for the curious, get a
copy of the Winter 1992 edition and read George Fix's article.  Then
read the following article, which is related (sorry, forget the authors
names and the magazine is 25 miles away).

Carl


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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 18:38 PST
From: lfk at veritas.com (Lynn Kerby)
Subject: Re: Treacle & Other Brit Sugars

In HBD1274 thutt writes:
>      I'm getting tired of seeing the Great Treacle Question posed and
>      pondered time and time again.  In HBD 1273, Bruce Beck wondered
>      what Golden Syrup is (I dunno) and once again mentioned the
>      mysterious Treacle.
>
>      No, you cannot buy treacle in the U.S., but that is not the full
>      answer.  To get the full answer, we must first find out exactly
>      what Treacle is.

Wrong.  It is possible to buy treacle in the U.S. as it is a stocked item at
my local homebrew store.  I don't know when/where the proprietor aquired the
stuff, but he does have both the treacle and the mysterious Golden Syrup
called for in the recipes (from Dave Line's book?).  I don't know if he
could replace it if someone bought it, but it is currently available for
sale in at least one location in the U.S.

Obviously it is not commonly available in the U.S. but that isn't what you
said.

Lynn Kerby
lfk at veritas.com

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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 17:23 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Pitch timing

Russell writes: 
>   Tell me if this makes sense.   Since most homebrewers underpitch,
>we don't want to pitch fermenting yeast (ie. high krausen), we want
>to pitch reproducing yeast (ie. pre-krausen).  That way when they hit
>the fresh (well oxygenated!) wort, they continue to reproduce, ensuring 
>a large colony and a healthy ferment when it's time.  The way to ensure 
>this would be to pitch a starter shortly after it has been inoculated,
>before the krausen begins.

It makes sense, but it's not the way that yeast actually works.  Just "before
the kraeusen begins" the yeast have their glycogen level depleted.  According
to experiments done by Pickerell, Hwang & Axcell (and reported in their
paper: Impact of Yeast-Handling Procedures on Beer Flavor Development During
Fermentation, 1991 American Society of Brewing Chemists, ASBC Journal,
volume 49, no.2.) you want to wait till the high kraeusen has just ended
to pitch your starter.  I have more info on this for anyone who is interested.

Al.


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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1993 09:12:31 -0500
From: steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick)
Subject: The Crabtree Effect

Miller's book and previous discussions in the HBD on the Crabtree effect
imply that the effect occurs when ONLY dextrose is available for
fermentation. But, my recent perusing of Malting and Brewing Science (by
Hought et al.) leads me to believe that the effect occurs when dextrose is
in a high concentration, and is not related to dextrose being the exclusive
fermentable available for the yeast. Thus, priming with 3/4 cup of corn
sugar, which adds a relatively low concentration of dextrose to a five
gallon batch, may not induce the Crabtree effect. I'm not sure of the
percent dextrose in the average beer wort, but it is probably near 10%; if
this is correct, then the average beer wort has a higher concentration of
dextrose than does a fermented out beer that is primed with dextrose. If
this reasoning is correct then the Crabtree effect is more likely to occur
in the average wort than in dextrose primed beer.

Any comments? Perhaps we really don't need to be concerned with the
Crabtree effect when priming with corn sugar. This would be supported by
the common knowledge that dextrose primed beers do not appear to exhibit
more oxidation characteristics than beers that are krausened or primed with
fresh wort.

Steve Zabarnick


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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 10:26:35 EST
From: nathan at monolith.bellcore.com (Nathan Justus)
Subject: Golden Syrup


In response to HBD #1273 - what is Golden Syrup?  Well, true Golden Syrup
is cane sugar syrup.  I would imagine that corn syrup could substitute,
however you might look for GS...my local A&P stocks it occasionally,
and stores like William Sonoma (if you don't have them in your
area, they're kind of yuppie cooking stores).  

GS, since all that I've ever seen is imported from the UK, is quite
expensive - expect about US$3.00 for a 1 pound jar/can (I've seen
it in a tin or in a jar).

Nathan Justus
nathan at monolith.bellcore.com

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Date: Wed, 17 Nov 93 21:49 PST
From: polstra!larryba at uunet.UU.NET (Larry Barello)
Subject: Re: barleywine

In HBD #1274 Peter writes:
>   If you want to lighten the body of your beer without bad side effects I 
>recommend adding 15% of your grain and extract weight in honey.  This should
>help drive the fermentation to completion.  I get light clover honey in
>a local store for a buck a pound.

Has anyone used rice, rice syrup or other cereal grains to lighten the
body of their barley wine?
- -- 
Larry Barello			uunet!polstra!larryba

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Date: Tue, 16 Nov 93 15:16:05 EST
From: dougy at icad.COM ( Doug Lethin)
Subject: Beer Labels 


   Date: Thu, 11 Nov 93 14:25:55 PST
   From: hp-sdd.sdd.hp.com!ucsd!megatek!hollen (Dion Hollenbeck)

   I have tried software sellers without luck.  Would you be able to
   supply a source for this program, or any more information like author,
   so that I can find it?


Dion: 

Here is the info you requested.
The name of the company that makes KeydrawPLUS for Windows is Softkey.
Their number is 407-367-0005
If that is not correct, call information in the 617 area code,
and ask for softkey in Cambridge. They just moved here.

Try Electronics Boutiqe. There mail order number is 1-800-800-5166


Good luck, and again, let me know if you have any problems

Doug



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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 00:05:58 CST
From: d_simon at fallout.lonestar.org
Subject: dry hopping/hops as preservatives


In HBD # 1273, Jack Schmidling writes:
 
>I think what I learned is that the anti-bacterial characteristics of hops are 
>either a myth or greatly exagerated in the brewing folklore.  Clearly, if 
>yeasts and bacteria live on the hops and can innoculate a culture dish, it is 
>not very bacteriocidal.
 
>It would have been interesting if there was a control using a handful of 
>grass clippings or leaves to find out if it was the nature of the fermented 
>beer or the hops that prevented contamination.
 
It is possible that the hop flowers alone are not acidic enough to inhibit 
the bacteria.  I would speculate that the preservative effect of hops
comes from the alpha acids extracted during the boil, and the increase in
acidity.  You don't hear of the preservative qualities of hop aroma 
although you do hear of the preservative qualities of hop bitterness.


Darrell Simon 
North Texas Home Brewer Association
d_simon at fallout.lonestar.org

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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 00:14:49 CST
From: d_simon at fallout.lonestar.org
Subject: 1994 Bluebonnet Brew-off

The 1994 Bluebonnet Committee presents the 8th Annual 

BLUEBONNET BREW-OFF

Yes, YOU and your BEER are welcome in Dallas/Ft. Worth next Spring.

The Bluebonnet Committee prides itself in offering the BEST PRIZES 
in the Country! We'd love you to win one or more of our cherished Steins!

* The competition dates will be Friday, March 11 and Saturday, March 12,
  1994

* We will offer all 28 of the 1993 AHA Categories.

* You have four months to go, so join us and GET BREWING!!

Please feel free to pass this on to a friend, club member, or fellow
homebrewer.  As well, please post this at your club meetings and/or
your local HOMEBREW supply shop.

You Can Contact us as follows:

Bluebonnet Brew-Off
PO Box 211721
Bedford, TX 76095

or 
d_simon at fallout.lonestar.org

We will follow-up and provide further details as entry times near.

"Just Dave" Girard
Secretary, 1994 Bluebonnet Committee

Note: The 1994 Bluebonnet Committee is a volunteer organization composed of 
members from all sponsoring Dallas/Ft. Worth area Homebrew clubs.  The 
Bluebonnet Competition is not used as a fundraiser for the DFW area clubs.
All funds are intended for use on the 1994 Bluebonnet Brew-off or future
Bluebonnet Brew-offs.

Darrell Simon 
North Texas Home Brewer Association
1994 Bluebonnet Committee
d_simon at fallout.lonestar.org

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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 09:47:47 CET
From: Alan B. Carlson <alanc at adb.gu.se>
Subject: Xmas beer tasting (part 2)

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLACE SCORE  BEER                  PRICE REVIEWERS' COMMENTS
	    
1.    3.5    Guinness Draught      14.20 Soft, dry, easy to drink, won-
                                         derful bitterness lovely taste

2.    3.0    Banco Juloel          10.60 Sweet and sour like, tar-like 
                                         aftertaste, easy to drink, un-
                                         balanced

3.    3.0    Aabro Juloel          10.60 Heavy sweetness, well-balanced
                                         bitterness, "homelike beer"

4.    3.0    Spendrups Juloel      10.60 Dry, good balance, great for 
                                         washing down herring

5.    3.0    Carnegie Pale Ale      9.70 Easy to drink, refreshing bitter-
                                         ness

6.    3.0    Lapinkulta  120       11.70 Easy to drink, well-balanced
                                         bitterness, sweet, tame

7.    2.5    Falcon Juloel         10.60 Heavy sweetness, full-bodied,
                                         tastes like Xmas beer, should be
                                          accompanied by a shot of vodka

8.    2.5    Young's Winter Ale    14.30 Sweet, dry licorice aftertaste,
                                         nice when flat

9.    2.5    Tuborg Julebryg       12.50 Amber-colored, stale nose, thin,
                                         bitter aftertaste

10.   2.0    Koenig Ludwig Dunkel  12.50 Perfume-musk nose, thin, bitter
                                         aftertaste

11.   2.0    Pripps Juloel         15.60 Roasted aroma, balanced, a hint
                                         of iodine

12.   2.0    Maclays's Scotch Ale  10.00 Smooth, smells like a wet dog, 
                                         sweet, cheap eau de toilette

13.   1.5    Three Hearts Juloel   10.60 Heavy artificial sweetness, sweet
                                         water, candy

14.   1.5    John Bull Bitter      13.70 Perfume nose, one swallow is enough

15.   1.5    Carnegie Porter 1993  12.10 Sweet, burnt taste, bitter

16.   1.0    Anchor Christmas Ale  19.10 Too much of everything, a cup of 
                                         coffee left too long on the burner,
                                         most expensive
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

/Alan

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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 09:53:12 CET
From: Alan B. Carlson <alanc at adb.gu.se>
Subject: Xmas beer tasting (part 1)

I tried sending this yesterday, but I guess it was too long... so,
I'll try again splitting it into two parts.

I just read a Swedish review of the christmas and winter ales that will
be available here in Sweden this winter. Most of them are from
Scandinavian breweries (and probably unavailable internationally) and
some of them are not what one would commonly find in this class, but
this might be interesting to people anyway. The test was staged by the
Swedish daily called "Svenska Dagbladet" and appeared Wednesday,
November 17th 1993. The panel, which was composed of "both experts and
amateurs on the subject of beer" was led by someone by the name of Eric
Kaellgren. No other indication was given as to their beer-tasting
credentials.  They blindtested 16 different beers and rated them on a
scale of 1 to 5 where 1 implied "poor" and 5 implied "excellent".  All
beers were bottled beers with the exception of Guinness Draught (can)
and all were 33 centiliters in volume with the exception of Pripps
Juloel which was 50 centiliters.

I did the best I could with the translations of the comments. Prices are
in Swedish crowns (a crown is presently worth about 12.2 US cents). Most
of these beers will not be available to the general public for another
week or so, so I haven't tasted the majority of them myself. I hope the
panel is wrong about Anchor's Xmas ale (according to the article it was
the only beer which got a score of 1 from everyone on the panel),
since I really enjoyed last year's version.


Alan
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alan B. Carlson                      Phone: +46 31 772 10 73
University of Gothenburg             Fax:   
Department of Information Systems    email:  alanc at adb.gu.se
Holtermansgatan 1
S-412 96 Gothenburg                        
SWEDEN  
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 10:37:43 EST
From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com>
Subject: Zymurgy proof reading



The latest Zymurgy special issue has a German wheat beer recipe that
has at least 2 typos.  It calls for 2 2/5 pounds of pale malt twice
and lists a hop rate of 3/4 grams (note: 28 grams to the ounce).

Spelling checkers are great but does anybody actually read this stuff before it
goes out the door?

Re: recent notes on chilling times.

My home made immersion chiller consists of 50 ft of 3/8 copper tubing.
With constant stiring, I cooled 5 gallons of boiling wort to 70F in
4 minutes last monday.  My tap water (25 miles north of Boston) is pretty cool
this time of year - your milage may vary.



- --Tony Verhulst

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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 10:55:58 EST
From: Greg D Blankenship <gdblanke at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: help needed carbonating lagers

     My first lager (Vienna) is about ready to be bottled and I am wondering if
I am going to have any problems carbonating it because of the temperatures that
I fermented at.  The primary fermentation was done at 46 degrees F for 10 days,
then I racked into the secondary and dropped the temperature to 33 degrees F.
It will have been in the secondary 21 days next wednesday.  Since I do not have
a kegging system (yet) that I could force carbonate with I am going to have to
bottle it.  Now my questions
     1)  Will using the standard 3/4 cup of corn sugar be enough to
carbonate it?
     2)  Will there be enough yeast left in the beer after the cold lagering
period?
     3)  If not is it possible to add more yeast before bottling without
creating problems?
     4)  Should I continue cold aging the beer after I bottle it or will this
inhibit carbonation?


BTW  I have a Penn thermostat from Willam's Brewing that works great.  It has a
temp control range of 20 F. to 80 F. and is very simple to use.

Thanks,

greg

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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 10:44:26 CST
From: Fritz Keinert <keinert at iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: Volcano Beer

Cecil writes:
>I made a Czech Pilsner using a can of BREWMART Czech Pilsner extract.
>I also used 3 lbs extra light DME. The can came with a dried yeast and 
>a pilsner enzyme. At 68 degrees I pitched both the yeast and the enzyme.
>It took the normal 1-2 days to start foaming but stayed extremely active 
>for 2 weeks. A local brew shop said bottle it anyway and that it would be
>considered a dry beer. I drank 2 sips and decided to dispose of the entire
>batch. I could pop the cap and sit the bottle upright in the sink and watch
>it empty its self from the bottom up. Help !! What did I do wrong ?

Probably nothing.

I had exactly the same experience with Glenbrew Czech Pilsner. In
retrospect, the fact that the beer was slightly carbonated at bottling
should have tipped me off. The taste was good, though. Very good, in
fact. It certainly did not taste infected.

I cooled the entire batch to just above freezing and opened it
carefully.  That reduced the gushing to more of an oozing. I let it
stand for about 20 minutes, filled up the space in each bottle, and
re-capped them.

This worked great. Unfortunately, a few weeks after that, the few
remaining bottles were back to gushing again.

My guess is that the enzyme is responsible. I don't know what is in
it, but I conjecture that it keeps breaking up the higher sugars very
slowly, over a period of weeks and months, so that the yeast keeps
finding new food.
- ---
Fritz Keinert                             phone:  (515) 294-5223
Department of Mathematics                 fax:    (515) 294-5454
Iowa State University                     e-mail: keinert at iastate.edu
Ames, IA 50011

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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 11:55:39 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: hops address

          Somewhere on HBD, I got "May Nursery, Box 1312, Yakima, WA" 
          as a source for hop plants. However, I just got my letter to 
          them returned by the USPO as undeliverable.
          
          Does anyone have an accurate address for May Nursery? or 
          another source for hop plants (note that I'm wanting 
          "plants" rather than seeds). 
          
          Thanks,
          Ron Dwelle (dweller at gvsu.edu at Internet)
          "I've met many a beer that I didn't like, but I've never met 
          a beer I wouldn't drink."

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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 09:58:51 -0800
From: Drew Lynch <drew at chronologic.com>
Subject: Invert Sugar


  In yesterday's (I hope) HBD, Chuck Wettergreen posted a method for
making invert sugar.  Has anyone used this stuff as a priming agent?
I was curious if the breaking down of the sugars would inhibit the
oxygen generating crabtree effect.  I don't like using most of the
malt based priming agents, as the percentage of fermentables is
unreliable, and produces inconsistant carbonation, however, I hesitate
to revert to corn sugar due the the potential for oxidization of the
bottled product.

			      Drew Lynch
		Chronologic Simulation, Los Altos, Ca.
			   (415)965-3312x18
			 drew at chronologic.com

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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 11:38:48 MST
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Fruit Beer

You'll find there are almost as many ways to make fruit beers as
there are brewers who have made them, but here are some guidelines
that have worked very successfully for me.

* Use a light beer for a base.  I often use a wheat beer base (50/50
  barley/wheat), since I think the slight fruitiness of the wheat
  complements the fruit well.  This is not a must -- I made a very
  tasty blueberry brown ale once; the recipe is in the Cat's Meow II --
  but the lighter beer helps to really show off the fruit.

* If you use fresh fruit, use LOTS, typically around 1 lb/gallon or
  even more.  My last batch of cherry ale was 9 lbs cherries for
  6 gallons of beer.  I can't say much about using juice or extracts.

* Add fruit to the secondary, after a week or so of primary fermentation,
  to avoid losing precious aromatics due to CO2 scrubbing.

* My general technique is as follows:

  1.  Brew your base beer as usual, let primary ferment complete (a week
      or so).
  2.  Remove any visibly damaged fruit (moldy, broken skin, etc) and
      puree.  Add fruit to your secondary vessel, then rack the beer on
      top of it.  The only sanitizing I do of the fruit is a quick
      sulfite rinse before pureeing.
  3.  Allow to ferment again to completion.  If the fruit contains a lot
      of sugar, this can result in some of the most spectacular
      fermentation you've ever seen!
  4.  Rack off of fruit again, using a copper scrubber and/or hop bag
      over the end of your racking tube to keep things from clogging.
      It will probably clog anyway.  It's a pain.  Anyone have a better
      method?  Anyway, the second racking is to a) Allow any remaining
      fruit bits to settle out, and b) to ensure any residual fruit
      sugar is completely fermented.
  5.  After 2-3 days in the tertiary, bottle as usual.

Regarding Lindemanns and Liefmans, the Liefmans Kriek is based on
their brown ale, so it's not a true lambic.  Lindemanns is a true
lambic, but IMHO it's very much on the sweet side.  For a taste of
what lambics are really like, try to find a Cantillon or a Frank Boon.
Or better yet, visit Brussels!

- --
Jeff Benjamin                               benji at hpfcla.fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado	
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
					    - T.S. Eliot

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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 93 12:59 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Avoiding tannin extraction/Lambics

Russell writes:
>  Some (myself included) advocate using boiling water for sparging.  This 
>works well, but as the pH of the mash increases as the wort is run off 
>(water has a higher pH than the mash), the amount of tannins extracted 
>will also increase.  One solution would be to use boiling water for the 
>beginning of the sparge, and "cooler" (whatever that may be) water as the 
>sparge progresses.  Another solution would be to batch sparge, adding the 
>boiling water all at once.  As has been noted, sugar extract efficiency
>will suffer slightly with a batch sparge, but tannin extraction would 
>likewise be minimized.

A third solution would be to acidify your sparge water.  This can be done
using Gypsum (which may not be a good idea if your water already has a
lot of sulfates or if you are brewing something that requires soft water
like a Czech Pilsner) or organic acids such as Lactic.  My personal choice
is the organic acid method AND using 170F sparge water (I've tasted some
NON-astringent beers brewed by JS and I know he uses the boiling sparge
water technique, but I personally feel more relaxed with 170F).

***************************
Matthew writes:
>I am particularly fond of the Belgian Kriek Lambics from 
>Lindemann's and Liefman's, but I've heard (rumor) that they
>aren't lambics but actually brown ales.  Has anyone else heard
>that?

Lindeman's is a Lambic, but Liefmans Kriek is a Sour Brown w/Cherries
or Belgian Brown Ale w/Cherries.  You'll need a lot of cherries to
give you flavors like these beers -- something on the order of 12-15
pounds for a 5 gallon batch.

***************************
Ben writes:
>        Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic
>It was crisp, smooth, and had sensational flavor.

I would encourage all homebrewers to discourage anyone from refering to
this beer as "Lambic."  It is by no stretch of the imagination a Lambic.
Lambics are spontaneously fermented by local yeasts and bacteria in the
Zenne Valley in Belgium.  The Sam (tm) Adams (tm) product is nothing more
than a Cranberry Ale and reference to the esteemed appellation "Lambic"
is another unscrupulous marketing ploy by the Boston (tm) Beer (tm)
Company (tm).

I continue my boycott of Samuel Adams products!
Al.

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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 14:19:19 -0500 (CDT)
From: WEIX at swmed.edu
Subject: Updated Yeast.FAQ in the Archives!

Hi,
  I have just finished updating the yeast.faq, and I put it to 
the pub/incoming dir today. It is much improved by the addition 
of a list of contents. There are also some refinements of yeast 
strain info, and Thomas Manteufel sent me a list of past HBDs with 
valuable yeast info--should anyone want a second opinion.:-) I also
took a step into turbulent waters and added a small section on the
importance of aeration in the rapid initial growth of yeast.
  I also feel the need to comment on an aertation commment made in
Thursday's digest, i.e. that it is possible to aerate any time up
until fermentation begins, because I feel that it is slightly to the
side of the point. To wit: Fermentation is what occurs during the 
*anaerobic* growth of yeast, so if one aerated, fermentation would 
just stop. They would go on living and turning sugars into CO2, but they 
would not make any *ethanol*. (They of course being the yeast!)
My point being: aerate early, then leave it alone.

Reading you later,

Patrick Weix
weix at swmed.edu

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Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1993 13:01:19 -0500
From: jeclark at ucdavis.edu (James Clark)
Subject: beginner

I have just become interested in homebrewing and joined this list to find
helpful info for my first batch which I plan to start in December.  So far
the only knowledge I have of the subject comes from _The New Complete Joy
of Homebrewing_.  However, just from reading the first few articles in this
list I have found that even the most basic steps to brewing are a matter of
opinion (i.e. plastic fermenter vs. glass carboy)
Does anyone have any suggestions to give to a confused prospective homebrewer?
Thanks
- --James
  (ez014141 at ucdavis.edu)
p.s. If it is innapropriate to ask for information from other members of
the      
     list by posting an article, or if there is another adress for this purpose
     please tell me.  I'm new to the internet, so I'm not quite knowledgeable
     of list-serve protocol.


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1276, 11/19/93