FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Sam Bashing (snystrom)
  Invert sugar (Chuck Wettergreen)
  RE: Stepping up to a 5 gallon boil (Thomas C Maszerowski)
  Post boil evaporation of DMS/initiators (U-E68316-Scott Wisler)
  Stuff and Nonsense (npyle)
  cider questions and screw caps (Mark Taratoot)
  Wanted: Sam Smith Oatmeal Stout clone (Domenick Venezia)
  Bruheat vs. picnic cooler (Rob Skinner)
  Boiler siphoning (Dion Hollenbeck)
  first all grain! (questions) ("Mark B. Alston")
  Liquid yeast storage ("David H. Thomas")
  crabtree effect (Todd Gierman)
  A Defense of Sam Adams ("Kevin M. Watts")
  bottle bomb weizen (Ulick Stafford)
  Lyles Golden Syrup (Barry Miller)
  sanitation mehtods (Vernon Hutchens)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 23:06:41 EST
From: snystrom at aol.com
Subject: Sam Bashing

Al writes: 
>The Sam (tm) Adams (tm) product is nothing more
>than a Cranberry Ale and reference to the esteemed >appellation "Lambic" is
another unscrupulous marketing ploy >by the Boston (tm) Beer (tm) Company
(tm).

>I continue my boycott of Samuel Adams products!

Al, 
I'm glad your boycott has been so successful. I managed to score my first
bottles of "Cranberry Ale" today down here in Florida -- even though the
officials at B (tm) B (tm) C(tm) said there wouldn't be enough for
distribution in our state. <G>

Sure, the lambic is not a lambic and the Octoberfest is not a true
Octoberfest. And Samual Adams isn't the best beer brewed in America four
years running. But I can remember not too many years ago when I refused to
drink ANY American Beer because they all s _ _ _ _ _ _! (censored for
political correctness). 

Sam bashing seems to be in vouge these days, but I think I can say most all
of us at one point in our lives enjoyed the beer. And although I, too, have
lost respect for the company due to marketing claims, I find it hard to name
a company whose marketing practices are up to my standards. Budweiser is not
the KING of beers, Hamms "land of sky-blue waters" commercials were filmed in
Northern Califorina and Miller's "Lowenbrau" has little in common with the
product from Europe.

You may not believe anything you read on a bottle from James Koch, and that's
the way it should be. Taste is what counts. Anyone who believes anything they
read without question deserves what they get. And I believe I'll go get
another bottle of Sam's from my fridge. . .

Scott

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Date: Fri, 19 Nov 93 19:48:00 -0600
From: chuck.wettergreen at aquila.com (Chuck Wettergreen)
Subject: Invert sugar


All,
I've received some questions about my invert syrup recipe and after 
checking it I realized that what I posted was wrong (gasp!). The 
recipe is:
8 pounds of white cane/beet sugar
2 pints (US) of water
1 tablespoon (=3 tsp) citric acid
mix, heat to boiling (will FOAM! then turn beautiful clear golden color)
cool, then dilute to 1 (US) gallon.
one (US) pint equals 1 (US) pound of sugar

Add too much of this and you'll STILL get that "cidery" taste!

Chuck 
 * RM 1.2 00946 * Sleep is an inadequate substitute for coffee.

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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1993 10:13:38 -0500 (EST)
From: tcm6503 at cs.rit.edu (Thomas C Maszerowski)
Subject: RE: Stepping up to a 5 gallon boil

prf at cherry-semi.com (Paul Ferrara) writes:

>to demote my 12qt aluminum pot to lobster boiling, and move on to
>something bigger.   I've been considering purchasing a "Bru-Heat"
>thermostatically controlled boiler as a replacement brew pot ... my
>theory being that for approx the price of a quality 24-30 qt stainless
>steel pot, I can get a unit that will boil my wort now,  AND, be used
>for my next leap: to all grain brewing.
>
>Would this be a wise investment?  Can the Bru-Heat bring a 5 gal batch
>to a reasonably quick boil?  Is it the right way to go for mashing?


  I've been using a Bruheat to boil the full 5 gallons for years. It
does work, but it can be slowwwwwwwww. I recently insulated mine with
that blue foam sheet insulation you can get at home stores. I cut thin
bat and set them up vertically along the outside with cutouts for the
thermostat and spigot. I also cut a piece for the bottom. It cut boiling
time down to the point I was able to go from cold water to final cleanup
in 2 hours. This is approximately half the time it took before. I can't
help with mashing as I'm an extract brewer.

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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 93 11:05:27 EST
From: U-E68316-Scott Wisler <wisler_scott at ae.ge.com>
Subject: Post boil evaporation of DMS/initiators

 In jack's (flick you in the forehead and see if you jump) post on chillers, 
 he advocates sealing the boiler while chilling.  While it pains me to admit 
 the idea intriguing, I also immediatly wondered two things.  I waited
 to ask partly because I realized we were being baited, and because I hoped 
 to have time to study up on the topics involved.  That not being the case 
 (yet), and since the topic has not been addressed, here goes:
 
 Are you sealing in DMS and/or its precursors during the time the wort is 
 still hot?  
 
 I understand that the long boil has many purposes, among them evaporating 
 unwanted volatiles like DMS and/or its precursors.  Within my (admittedly 
 spotty) understanding of the process, if the wort remains above a certain 
 temperature, the reaction which produces DMS will continue until all the 
 formation material is depleted.  One's goal therefore is to boil off all 
 the DMS possible, and then chill the wort quickly to prevent DMS from being 
 further produced.  Note that I did not say as quickly as possible, but 
 merely quickly  :) 
 
 What I do not yet understand are the details of the reaction, the precursor 
 issues, the critical temperatures involved, how much DMS precursor material 
 is left after an hour boil, and the implications of sealing you pot and 
 thus preventing evaporation of this compound.
 
 Further enlightenment would be much appreciated.
 
 Second, how do you ge the lid off when its chilled.  I know that when I 
 leave a pot of hot peas with lid  on the stove overnight (I hate it when I 
 do that), its near impossible to get that lid off.  Does the top of your 
 lid bow in?
 
 scott
 
 swisler at c0431.ae.ge.com
 (In your best TV announcer voice)
 Stay tuned for the next episode of:
           `Bullwinkle at the Bottom'   ...OR...   `Mashed Moose' 

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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 93 9:36:36 MST
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Stuff and Nonsense

Dion, I understand completely about the Kegging FAQ delays.  The boss always
seems to want more work out of you just when you volunteer to do something
outside of work.

**

Mike Sharp:  Are you just going to leave us hanging like that????...

**

J. Fingerle writes:

>My bottle cleaning procedure is this:  after I decant a beer, I

I don't mean to be abrasive but I don't "decant" beer, I pour it.  Decanting is
for that grape stuff.

**

Chris writes:

Chris>I have to agree with Ben's comments.  Maybe the "Sam Adams
Chris>Cranberry Lambic" is not a true lambic, but it IMHO, it is a very
Chris>tasty brew.

You are correct, it is not a true lambic, nor is it a pseudo-lambic,
ersatz-lambic, imitation-lambic, anything-like-a-lambic.  It should not be
called a lambic, no matter how good it tastes.

Al>>I continue my boycott of Samuel Adams products!
Chris>Your loss.  Although Koch may be a slime bag, he makes a decent
Chris>product.

Yes, he makes decent beer.  But so do literally hundreds of good, decent people
who avoid using the strong-arm tactics of the neighborhood bully to sell their
product.  Of the hundreds of brewers attending this year's GABF, the BBC tmtmtm
was the only one in violation of GABF marketing rules.  They were only allowed
to attend because the GABF feared the threat of a lawsuit, which it certainly
does not need.  So, why would you want to buy beer from these people?  You can
buy good beer, better than Koch's, from good people.  I'm with Al on this one:

BOYCOTT SAM ADAMS PRODUCTS!!!

**

Coyote, how about Rub-a-dub-Dubble for that bathtub brew?

**

Al writes:

>Would you eat a sandwich you dropped on the garage floor?

I'm not sure my personal habits are any business of yours, or that they have a
place in the digest, but here's my answer:
Yes, but I wouldn't eat it after dropping it on the garage floor and then
putting it in a carboy for two weeks 8^O ;-)

Norm

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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1993 13:12:30 -0600 (MDT)
From: Mark Taratoot <SLNDW at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: cider questions and screw caps

Greetings.

Coyote mentions a gallon of cider that has started to spontaneously
ferment and smells bad.  My advice:  LET IT GO WILD!!  Last year
I tossed one of my gallons of cider into a jug and put an airlock
on, just to see what would happen.  It smelled terrible for a month
or two or three.  I let it sit in the cold closet, not wanting to 
throw it out and eventually after about 6 months it had cleared quite
a bit.  I was about ready to throw it away, but I racked off the lees
just to finish the experiment.  I tasted a bit... MMMMMMMMM!!!

After about another month or so in the second (third?) jug, I bottled
it with just a tiny amount of priming sugar.  Now this cider is very
nice.  One of the best yet!  I may do five gallons this way with some
extra fermentables this year, but I don't want to start a long project
like that since I will likely be moving in the next 6 months.

Regarding the cider that needs to be served soon:  Kill it with
vodka, heat, or cold, then either force carbonate and use a
counter pressure filler or serve still.  I don't like the sound of
this method.  Other method:  Bottle it a day or three before you serve
it and keep it cool!!!
**********

Regarding twist off caps:
	When I first started brewing I used some twist off caps since my
bottle collection was not complete.  I was using an old-fashioned
bench capper at the time.  I never had any trouble using twist offs.
When my friend left Utah to move to Washington state, he took his
capper :( .  I then started using a wing-style el-cheapo Italian
capper.  I found that this capper did not seal the few screw top bottles
I still used occaisonally as well as the "real" bottles.  (The main
problem with the wing capper is that bottles must have a large
collar for the capper to grab, so many of my bottles were difficult
to cap).
	Now I have an old-fashioned bench capper of my own 
that was found BRAND NEW at a second-hand store (Thanks John).  I have
not used screw tops since I have had this capper, but I think it would
cap them fine.  The difference:  Wing cappers grab the bottle and
squeeze the crown onto the bottle while bench cappers just push
the crown down onto the bottle.  Perhaps the cappers that commercial 
breweries like SN use cap the bottles like the bench capper and so
screw tops are not a problem.  
	I think a bigger problem is cheap, thin-glass bottles.  BTW...
does anyone have any idea of the life expectency of a bottle for beer.
As we re-use bottles, they get pressurized (slowly) and de-pressurized
(quickly).  How much of this stress can an ordinary bottle take?

 -toot

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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1993 14:27:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at ZGI.COM>
Subject: Wanted: Sam Smith Oatmeal Stout clone

***
*** WARNING - WARNING - WARNING - This post may contain flame-bait.
*** 
*** WARNING - WARNING - WARNING - This post may contain the word orgasm.
*** If you find such words offensive, you have my sympathy.
*** 

But seriously folks, I'm looking for an all grain Samual Smith's Oatmeal 
Stout recipe.

I just went through the Cats Meow 2 and every HBD from 881031 to 1277
looking for postings containing the words "oats" or "oatmeal.  Although
there are many requests and lots of extract recipes there is not a single
all grain recipe reputed to be a Sam Smith clone!  I don't need to tell
you, I was suprised! 

So let's see 'em.  (Do it now)  Directly to me or post them to the HBD. 
(Don't wait, do it now)  Damn the bandwidth!  (Mail recipe now)  There have
been too few recipes posted recently.  This is what it's all about. 
Getting information into the hands of the People!  Freeing the People from
the shackles of AB tyranny!  Power to The People!  

Whoa..., flashback.

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
venezia at zgi.com





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Date: Sat, 20 Nov 93 16:28:00 +0800
From: rob.skinner at kandy.com (Rob Skinner)
Subject: Bruheat vs. picnic cooler


Paul writes:
>Would this be a wise investment?  Can the Bru-Heat bring a 5 gal batch
>to a reasonably quick boil?  Is it the right way to go for mashing?
>Or should I really spend many $$ and buy a stainles steel pot, propane
>cooker, picnic cooler mash tun, sparging manifold, etc, etc, etc ....

    When I was ready to take the plunge to all-grain,
    several friends talked me into going with the picnic
    cooler setup.  I'm glad they did;  it's the closest you can
    get to unattended brewing.  There is no worry about scorched
    grain, stirring, etc.

    If your worried about the cost, you might be able to get off
    cheaper with the cooler setup.  If you can dig up an old
    cooler, are willing to settle for an enamel pot, and have an
    understanding spouse who will let you use the kitchen stove,
    you can get started for under fifty bucks.

    Word of caution though:  some inexpensive coolers are made of
    plastic that cannot withstand the temperature of boiling
    water.  I use a Coleman with the metal exterior, and it's
    still like new.

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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 93 08:01:03 PST
From: hollen at megatek.megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Boiler siphoning


I am leaving too much wort behind in my boiler after siphoning to
primary fermenter.  I leave about .75 gal as a combination of what is
held in the hops and what is left because the hop bed causes my siphon
to "break".  I use a Sankey keg as a boiler.  It has a 1/2" pipe
nipple coming in from the side and an elbow and nipple going down into
the botto.  Over the nipple is a screen (1/8" grid) to keep out the
whole hops.  When I let liquid out and there is no hops, then all but
about 1/2 cup of liquid is removed.

1)	How much liquid do you leave in your boiler including
	in the hop bed.
2)	Any suggestions, or do I just figure in the excess wort
	needed to be left behind?



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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 93 10:43:37 MST
From: "Mark B. Alston" <c-amb at math.utah.edu>
Subject: first all grain! (questions)

Well, I just brewed my first all grain yesterday.  It was a blast!  I
have never done an partial-mash before this all-grain but it went
fairly smoothly anyhow.  However, after having actually done a mash
new questions come up which I didn't even think of before.  

I'll post a summary of my procedures and equipment later.  I think
that it might be useful to those thinking about going all grain.  With
the right equipment I think that it can be quite easy.  As I just
found out.

1) I brewed a porter because my water is high in bicarbs and I didn't
   want to worry about messing around with my water too much.
   Since Noonan and Miller and just about everyone else says that a 
   dark mash has a higher p.h. I assume that they mean that I should
   add the dark grains to the mash at mash in.  Otherwise, I will have
   a mash which is the same as a pale ale mash and will have p.h.
   problems.  Is this not correct?  This is where I ran into my
   problem.  Having such a dark mash it was impossible to tell what my
   p.h. papers were telling me.  The wort (or is it not called wort
   till after the mash?)  simply stained them a dark color.
   Everything went fine anyhow.  I achived conversion regardless of the
   p.h. but it was still confusing.  How do you all check the p.h. of
   your dark mashes?

2) This dark color brought out another problem.  There would be no way
   to tell if iodine went black or not.  The mash was black on it's own.
   Thus, I could not test for conversion.  I simply let the mash sit
   at conversion temp for almost 2 hours.  The liquid tasted sweet at
   this point so I went on.  I achived an O.G. of 1.061 so I must have
   gotten conversion.  So, how do you check for conversion of a dark mash?

3) For checking my extraction efficiency do I use the total grain
   weight (pale, chocolate, patent, crystal) or what?  It seems that by
   including all the grains dark mashes will always seem less efficient
   than pale mashes even though I might have extracted the same amount
   from the pale malt. Moreover, I boiled off more liquid than I had
   intended and was left with only 4.25 gal or so in my carboy.  So
   according to miller it seems that I should do the following:
   
       Degrees = (1.061 * 4.25)/10 = .45

   since my total grain bill came to 10 lbs (8 lbs pale malt) and I
   was only left with 4.25 gal.

   What does this mean.  Is this good or bad or what.  Miller gives me
   no idea as to how what numbers I should get.

Thanks for any and all info.
Mark (c-amb at math.utah.edu)


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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1993 13:25:25 -0500 (EST)
From: "David H. Thomas" <dhthomas at lis.pitt.edu>
Subject: Liquid yeast storage

I am relatively new to brewing (ca. 10 brews) and am using liquid yeast 
for the first time.

I'm looking for info concerning the storage of liquid yeast cultures from 
one brew to the next.  The folks who sold me the package of liquid yeast 
(Wyeast London) told me I could reuse the yeast by storing it. Papazhian 
says not a whole lot about this. What precisely do I save? How much do I 
save? What do I save it in? Where do I save it?

I seem to recall reading somewhere a bit about this--was it Dave Miller's 
book? (The title of which I can't seem to recall).

Any help on this would be useful.

Cheers,
David Thomas
dhthomas at icarus.lis.pitt.edu
"What is this quotation stuff about, anyhow?"


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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1993 14:37:30 -0500
From: tmgierma at acpub.duke.edu (Todd Gierman)
Subject: crabtree effect

In digest #1277, the question was asked:

>Pardon my igorance, but what is the Crabtree Effect supposed to do to my beer,
>and why would one avoid it?  It seems it has to do with oxygen production, and
>of course I know why I don't want oxygen in my beer at bottling, but could
>someone explain the effect in greater detail?

Quite simply the "Crabtree Effect" is really an observation that goes like this:

In the presence of high glucose concentrations (>0.5%), yeast will continue
to utilize fermentation even when oxygen is introduced into their
environment.  This phenomenon is sometimes called "aerobic fermentation."

I don't know whether this explains the phenomenon of carbonating through
the addition of dextrose.  It may actually be that the addition of dextrose
provides a carbon source at concentrations below 0.5% and now the yeast
respire giving off CO2 and no alcohol (the addition of priming sugar does
not increase alcohol content, right?)

You see, basically, yeast ferment whenever they can and respire only when
they have to (that is, when fermentables are low).  In a glucose based
nutrient system, anyway, yeast grow primarily by fermentation - glucose
itself represses the expression of the enzymes required for respiration. 
Once the glucose is depleted to very low levels the yeast then kick into
respiration mode, which requires oxygen and which can result in the
catabolism of alcohol and acetaldehyde in addition to glucose.  

Well, you say, "my wort is mainly maltose, so I know they are respiring
until the oxygen is depleted."  There is actually glucose present in your
wort prior to pitching the yeast, as well as other sugars(maltose,
dextrins, etc).  Glucose and fructose enter the yeast cell via passive
diffusion.  Maltose, on the other hand, is actively transported and can be
consumed at a rate that exceeds glucose, in spite of the fact that it must
be broken down enzymatically into two molecules of glucose.  

So, do the yeast respire early after pitching?  I seriously doubt it.  Like
I said, in a glucose-based environment they ferment their little hearts out
(figuratively).  Maltose is actually two glucose molecules coupled and once
broken is actually catabolized as ordinary glucose.  So the real question
here is:  does maltose affect yeast metabolism in a manner identical to
glucose (does it also repress respiration)?  I suspect that it does, but do
not know for certain.

Why do we aerate then?  Well, I understand that it is important for the
synthesis of sterols, which, I assume, act, in part, as regulators of
growth.

This is an issue that should be cleared up (fermentation vs. respiration),
as it gets thrown around these threads on a regular basis.  Perhaps,
someone with access to the real brewing literature could better address
this question, i.e. the effect of abundant fermentables on respiration in
yeast.




Todd Gierman
Dept. of Microbiology
Duke University Medical Center


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Date: 21 Nov 93 15:02:38 EST
From: "Kevin M. Watts" <75250.2033 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: A Defense of Sam Adams

Chris (responding to Al) writes:

>>    I continue my boycott of Samuel Adams products!

>     Your loss.  Although Koch may be a slime bag, he makes a decent 
      product.

A slimebag? Really? Sometimes this guy comes off sounding like Hitler in the
HBD. 

You may question his marketing techniques regarding the GABF and his
trademarking of the word "Boston". 

Regarding the first...it seems to me that GABF got a heck of a lot of free
advertising since 1986/7 when SA began running those radio spots that mention
"winner three/four years running of the GABF." True, he may not have explained
the ins and outs of the awards process. He should be chastised for it. But if I
remember correctly, GABF didn't complain until much later. Meanwhile, their
attendance has doubled and tripled. The first time I ever heard about GABF was
via those radio commercials, and I've attended two of them now. 

Regarding the second...as a marketing slimebag myself, I understand the need to
maintain product identification. A guy walks into the store and sees "Boston
Lager" and "Boston Stock Ale", both SA products, then sees "Boston Bock" or some
other product by another manufacturer, and it stinks. Potential for problems for
SA? You bet. Trademarking is as old as the hills. 

The love of Sam Adams inspired my search for good beer. You may disagree with
his techniques, but remember, this is a business. How many brewers go bust every
year? How many make a real profit? And, more to the point, how many micros can
claim the widespread distribution of SA? I walked into a small town bar outside
of Decatur, Alabama last year and they had SA on tap! It certainly did beat a
Bud.

This "slimebag" is the same guy who closed down his plant and took this entire
staff to DisneyWorld to celebrate their anniversary. I don't know the man
personally, but that sounds like a good boss to me.

I suppose I'm about to get flamed by all the pure-of-heart beer geeks out there,
and I'm ready. If you know something I don't about James Koch, something truly
evil, then please let me know. I just think that calling for the boycott of a
very good product and calling people really rude names in a public forum is
silly.

Just a thought. Now lets get back to the real beer stuff.

						-Kevin/Chicago
 


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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 93 16:29:48 EST
From: ulick at michaelangelo.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: bottle bomb weizen

I had my first ever bottle bomb.  It was a weizen and the cause was
quite obvious.  I deliberately followed every step in Warner's book,
even when I questioned it.  One such point was to do with 
carbonataion and for 5 gallons he recommends priming with either
1.6 qt of Speise or 1.8 quarts of wort.  Obviously there is more 
sugar in the former (21B first runnings from Laeuter tun) than in
the latter , ~13B, but I used the former anyway.   I couldn't bring
myslef to bottle after 2 days - the ferment had been low ~60F, but
I bottled after 4 without bothering to change yeast.  Anyway, after
a week I had a perfect, if overcarbonated Weizen.  A German friend of
mine and another Irishman who lived for a while in Germany thought
it was spot on.  

Anyway, while milling grain for a new batch down in my basemnt (now
a 5-10 minute job with the MM instead of the previous 20+ with the 
Corona), a bottle blew - a longneck returnable, although probably flawed.
I immediatly made space in my 40F lager for the rest to stop yeast
activity and disolve more CO2.  Later that evening my German friend
called and asked me to bring over some weizen as his party guests wanted to
try it.  I told him of the mishap and he responded that usually one case in
three of commercial weizen in Germany would have a bottle bomb - so it must
be good!  Anyway I brought it over and it was a hit with 'genau richtig' 
being a typical comment.  This would seem to prove what a good book Eric 
Warner has written.  He won the best weizen in 1992 at the AHA national, I
think, and a brewer following his procedure won this year, although all 
the judges said his beer was a gusher.  My next batch - 2 days old now
so about reeady to bottle will be primed with just one quart of Speise.

In 1277.  Lee Menegoni comments that saccarificqation rests for decoction
mashes should be longer because enzymes have been denatured. I'm not sure
if this is the case.  A decoction procedure should involve a rest
at 150-160 for 15 minutes, whcih should be long enough with modern malts
to convert all starches in the decocotion that are available, and the actual
boil will make the other starches much more accessible.  I have found 
that 20 minutes after combining the mashes is plenty to complete conversion 
with modern malts.  If malt quality is poor, a double or triple decoction
should be employed.

Norm Pyle asks about the Crabtree effect, but Al K gave a good explanation
to which I will only add that when disaccharides such as maltose are 
present in high concnetration the yeast cells enter their respiration phase
consuming oxygen, so that they can release extracellular enzymes that then
split the disacchaides into monosaccharides, that can then be absorbed
through the cell walls.  When monosaccharides (well glucose anyway) predominate
the yeast cells do not need to repire as they can absorb the monosaccharides
through their cell walls without the need to excrete enzymes.
I have one question.  Al mentioned that the Crabtree effect will occur if
monosaccharides predominate.  Is this true for fructose, and if so what
happens when sucrose is present?  Would the sucrose become invert (fructose
and glucose) if added to the slightly acid beer as a bottling sugar, or
would the repiration phase be intiated as in the case of maltose or
maltotriose?
__________________________________________________________________________
 'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ...  | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.  
    Pabst Blue Ribbon!'               | Notre Dame IN 46556
                                      |    ulick at darwin.cc.nd.edu   


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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 93 15:29:00 -0400
From: barry.miller at som.linet.org (Barry Miller)
Subject: Lyles Golden Syrup

For those who are interested, Lyles Golden Syrup can be purchased from G.B.
Ratto & Company, International Grocers Inc. 821 Oakland St. Oakland, CA
94607-4029.  1-800-325-3483.  The syrup is listed in my catalog as item #2770,
16 oz. tin at $5.95.

Even if you are not interested in the syrup, get a copy of Ratto's catalog.
They have a superb selection of specialty and imported food items, spices etc.
at reasonable prices. (I have no relationship with Ratto's other then as a very
satisfied customer)

Barry Miller
barry.miller at som.linet.com

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Date: 21 Nov 1993 20:45:21 -0800 (PST)
From: p41539 at tcville.hac.com (Vernon Hutchens)
Subject: sanitation mehtods

I have been homebrewing for a year now, and I have been sanitizing
everything with a mild bleach solution.  No problems.

A good friend of mine works in the food processing industry, and he
says that I should use hydrogen peroxide to sanitize, like the food
pros do.  Is this a good idea?  I am not motivated to change, but he
won't leave me alone without a rebuttal.

Fisher Hutchens            hutchens at igate1.hac.com

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1278, 11/22/93