FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Guinness & more (Brian Bliss)
  Cider requirements (Paul Beard)
  Whitbread Report (George J Fix)
  Refrigerator Conversions (cong)
  UNSUBSCRIBE ("Dan Peterson")
  Sam Smith Nut Brown Ale - Need Clone (Michael D. Galloway)
  Cheap Grains! ("Moore, Brian")
  Desired format for file distribution (Paul Beard)
  Leinenkugel, Weizenbock and H20 ph. (Mark Stickler Internet Mail Name)
  Young's yeast (Bob Jones)
  Siphon Hot Wort (WKODAMA)
  Bottling Sanitation Experiment (Paul Sovcik)
  cleaning Easymasher, big tuns (tims)
  Re: Counterpressure filler (Drew Lynch)
  Help! (yeebot)
  beerhunter - SF BAy area (SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42)
  Re: Leinenkugel's Winter (Benjamin Woodliff)
  A Wedding, Homebrew, and Texas (Michael Froehlich)
  Whitbread-continued (George J Fix)
  Turkey Leftovers & Scrumpy (richard a childers)
  cool ferment temps (U-E68316-Scott Wisler)
  Ice beer/Mixing yeast (Keith MacNeal  30-Nov-1993 1501)
  Soda Ash Residue (Dan Needham)
  Noche Buena y Leon/Guiness error/FAQ format ("DEV::SJK")
  Used Kegs? (npyle)
  SS Fitting (x-4378)" <Simpson at po2.rb.unisys.com>


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For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 06:42:46 -0600
From: bliss at pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss)
Subject: Guinness & more

sdlsb.dnet!73410%sdlcc at swlvx2.msd.ray.com (Carl Howes) writes:
>I will be brewing a stout this weekend with which I hope to emulate
>Guinness.  I looked at Papazian, Miller, and Cat's Meow over the weekend
>and developed the following extract/specialty recipie:
>
>7 lbs. M&F light DME
>1 lbs. flaked barley
>1 lbs. roasted barley
>0.75 lbs. crystal malt
>1.66 oz Chinook hops (12.6%) at 60 min.
>
>A note on my current limitations.  Brewpot: 16qt size, effective maximum
>capacity 12qts.  This is why the hopping is so heavy, to compensate for
>the very high SG in the pot.  Scaling is based on Papazians' table with the
>goal of coming out equivalent to 15AAU in a full volume boil.  The
>questions: some sources call for rolled barley, some for flaked.  My local
>supplier had never heard of rolled.  Are they the same thing?  Papazian and
>Miller both simply specify "high alpha" hops in their "Toad Spit" and "Dry"
>stout recipies.  In scanning the back HBDs I have on hand, I find Goldings
>(I assume Kent) recommended by Brian Bliss in #1145, and Geoff Cooper in
>#1150 states that Guinness uses Target.  Where all the hops are for
>bittering, does the variety really matter?  Several sources call for an
>addition of soured ale for a Guinness clone.  I assume a lactobacillus
>souring, or is this a momily?  TIA.

first of all, omit the crystal malt. guinness is a very dry beer,
regardless of first impressions, and if you brew extract/partial biol,
the beer will probably be too sweet anyway (caramelization).

1.66 oz of chinook may not be enough if you only do a partial boil.
I've tried an tried to dup guinness, but keep underestimating its
bitterness.  I now agree that it doesn't matter what kind of hops
you use if you boil long enough to drive off ALL flavor and leave only
bitterness.  I'm an anti-american/high alpha* hop fenatic myself, and if I
do taste any hop flavor (which you will if you use fresh morris-handbury
hop plugs even after a 60 min boil) in my stout, I like golding best.
(I mean kent goldings - I've haven't used much styrian goldings).

* => N Brewer is a notable exception.

If you use target hops, boil for 90 min.  My long boils, however, may
be producing too clear of a beer for guinness (draft, at least -
guinnes extra stout is actually quite clear, albeit dark).  Don't
use any irish moss.

I've had good luck adding soured beer to the boil (but other flavors
and high hopping rates in those batches may be more the reason), and
bad luck adding lactic acid to the finished product, in varying amounts.
Does the boil drive off most of the lactic acid?  No soured beer is
added to extra stout, only the draft version, to the best of my knowledge.

Guinness has a lot of roasted barley flavor, and 1 lb is not enough,
IMHO, for a "normal mash".  people who add the dark grains at mashout
may differ.

 - brian_13 tries and still hasn't quite imitated guinness_bliss

- ------------------------------

Al K writes:
>Did anyone else notice that two first-place winners in the AHA National
>Competition were made with EDME dry yeast?!?!

I've drank a coupla brews that I would swear were brewed with a chimay
culture but were actually brewed with edme.

- ------------------------------

john wyllie (COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>) writes:
>RE:  commercials and commercial beer:
>>These beersare intended to be and are soda pop for adults.  
>They are nothing more than an alcohol delivery system.  They 
>have only a limited usefulness in our society.  They encourage 
>abuse by their very characteristics. 

yeah, but I find it safer than needles, and much more pleasant
than everclear :-)

>So what the %&$ is the deal here.  Ice brewed?  Now they gots a 
>special yeast which ferments at FREEZING temps or something?
 ...
>I intend to distill,  ugh...uh...ummm.....I mean- "enhance" a brew
>this winter, by doing the ice beer thing. Concentrate, yes that's it!

I thought that they were freeze-distilled.  What IS the deal?
I thought freeze-distilled meant that they had to be sold as hard
alochol?  But then again, sherry and port wine have brandy added,
but aren't sold as hard alcohol.  Are they trying to force legal
precedent?

>But what does Miller think their process is? Anyone REALLY know, or
>is it what I presume, another advertising ploy to impress the ignorant
>mindless masses who don't have a clue what REAL brewing is all about?!!!

Well, they seem to have pulled zima off.  Seriously, if they like it
(and I've tried it, but much prefer a good gin & tonic), let the yuppies
have it.  Just don't call it "beer" (and they don't).

- ------------------------------

From: donald oconnor <oconnor at ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
>The new Whitbread dry yeast has never been distibuted due to the 
>inability of the processor to produce a clean product.
 ...
>For those who are still purchasing Whitbread, please note that Crosby and 
>Baker, the U.S. distributor, states it was produced well over a year ago.

I've seen it distributed by GW Kent, and more recently by C&B.  I thought
the C&B stuff was the "new, improved" whitbread.  Nevermind, they both
worked, I've never had a sour batch from either, and many a good batch.
(what do a few impurities matter if it takes off quikly enough to overpower
them?)  Sadly, the supply seems to be drying up again.

bb

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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 08:43:53 -0500
From: paul.beard at gatekeeper.mis.tridom.com (Paul Beard)
Subject: Cider requirements

 Down here in the mountainous South, we can get a thick, brown apple cider
 (nothing like the pale sweet stuff foisted on kids). Being a big fan of
 Westcountry (England) cider (again, nothing like Woodpecker or Strongbow --
 more like Silas's secret recipe), I'd like to make some of it. Since I
 would guess this is as close as I can get to pressing my own, what steps
 would have to take to get it fermenting? The stuff seems to ferment by
itself, even
 in the refrigerator, so I'm guessing I really just need to control the
 natural process.
 
 Any suggestions/firsthand experience??


Paul Beard
AT&T Tridom, 840 Franklin Court, Marietta, GA 30067 
404 514-3798 * FAX: 404 429-5419 * tridom!paul.beard/beardp at tridom.com



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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 08:45:58 -0600
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Whitbread Report

I started not to reply to O'Conner's flame in HBD#1285, however he
has been responsible for so much misinformation on HBD I could not
let this one pass. 

The new Whitbread yeast was initially distributed to various commercial
operations. It proved to be a poor flocculating yeast in unitanks, and the
ADF achieved was lower than desirable (68-72%) in these tanks. Crosby+
Baker decided not to distribute the yeast because of this. There were 
absolutely no complaints about the yeast not being clean. The bacterial
and wild yeast counts were exceptionally low. O'Conner is blatantly lying
about that point. 

Don writes:

>George Fix has claimed, on the digest and in Zymurgy, that the new 
>Whitbread is available and that it is clean.  Moreover George claimed to 
>have received very good scores at homebrew competitions for beers 
>made with the new Whitbread.  George claimed that new production 
>procedures are the reason for the new and improved Whitbread.  It's 
>now glaringly obvious that all of these reports were in error.  I advised 
>digest readers months ago to view the reports as wishful dreaming 
>lacking any sound scientific basis because of the patently obvious flaws 
>in George's methods.

The score sheets of the competitions entered are on file with Crosby+Baker.
O'Conner has never asked to see these and check them out. The names of the
judges are on the sheets, and given that many are on HBD I am deeply offended
by O'Conner's wild assertions.

Another reason C+B decided not to distribute the new Whitbread is that they
have been getting good reports on the Mauri and Red Star strains. I recently
entered a bitter in the Spooky competition that was fermented with the Red Star
yeast. It took BOS. I have not received the score sheets (can someone in 
Chicago help me here), but copies of these will be sent to Crosby+Baker when
I get them. Those and all the others can be obtained from C+B for those that 
are  interested.

George Fix




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Date: 30 Nov 93 15:06:37 GMT
From: cssc!cong at scuzzy.attmail.com
Subject: Refrigerator Conversions


RE:

>Date: 29 Nov 93 18:43:34 EST
>From: Harry Covert <73232.167 at CompuServe.COM>
>Subject: New Refrigerators
>
>
>I also got a small serving fridge and I plan on putting a tap through the
>top.  Any recommendations on how to move that little freezer compartment
>out of the way.  The freon lines run through it, so it will be kind of
>tricky.  Also, what equipment will I need for the tap?  Thanks
>
>Harry Covert

When dealing with freon, caution is warranted.  The most important thing 
in relocating the freezer compartment is not to crack the freon lines. 
The lines are usually constructed of fairly pliable metals than can allow
some freedom of relocation.  You might try dropping the front of the 
freezer compartment down to give you access for your tap line/s in the front.
The freon lines are most likely attached to the box in the back, but if
you have connections in the back and the front you may have some problems.
There will also be some kind of thermostat control attached to the box
that may need to be detached from the box to regain temperature control.
Remember when you alter the unit, the cooling capacity is also altered.
Since older units are less likely to be frost free (that's good for 
temp control) moving the freezer may cause heavy frosting.  An Air Stat
or similar temperature control device will be helpful.  In older, 
single door fridges the freezer unit is often the cooling unit 
for the entire fridge.  

As far as equipment needed to install a tap, you will need a
Beer Faucet & Shank (Available from some Homebrew shops and mail order).
The shank should come with a Hose Tail Piece and Coupling Nut.
Make sure the hose tail piece is the same diameter as your dispensing 
lines from your kegging system.  Since you wish to install the faucet on the
top of the fridge you will need a dispensing tower on which to attach
the faucet.  The most recent copy of Zymurgy advertises such a device on
the inside back cover.  Bar supply stores will also carry the tower
as well as the faucets and hardware.

It might be easier to install through the door rather than on the top of the
fridge. It would avoid the hassle of moving the freezer and the added
cost of the dispensing tower.


cong


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Date: 30 Nov 1993 07:02:26 -0800
From: "Dan Peterson" <dan_peterson at quickmail.apple.com>
Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE

        Reply to:   UNSUBSCRIBE
UNSUBSCRIBE

- --------------------------------------
Date: 11/30/93 0:57
To: Dan Peterson
From: CHANGE THIS IF NECESSARY
!!!! Original Message >= 24K; See following enclosure. Preview follows !!!!




HOMEBREW Digest #1285		             Tue 30 November 1993


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Demerara Sugar ("Robert H. Reed")
  German Malt sources request (Crawford.Wbst129)
  for James Clark (29-Nov-1993 0911 -0500)
  which yeast? (btalk)
  Alternative FAQ Formats (Mark A. Stevens)
  "Closed" fermentation -vs- "Open" fermentation
("SMSD::MRGATE::\"A1::WESTERMAN_ROBERT\"")
  HSA again... (Ed Hitchcock)
  Please add me to you distribution (Steven Grove)
  Please relax!! (Don Biszek)
  Re: Rauchbier (Jason Goldman)
  Dark malt & iodine test/cider vs juice (Jeff Benjamin)
  Sour 2-row grain (Chuck Wettergreen)
  Black Treacle and Hunter AirStat (Steve D. Gabrio)
  Caustic washing (George J Fix)
  Re: _very_ low s.g. (John Glaser)
  pH Meters (Mark Garti  mrgarti at eng.xyplex.com)
  Noche Buena (George J Fix)
  Guinness clone? (Carl Howes)
  LiquidVSdry yeast/Counterpressure filler (korz)
  Milwaukee brew stops? (dbell)
  IceBeer/ CP Fill/ Sulfer Cider/ Filter then Bottle?/ Xtal Entity (COYOTE)
  Sierra Nevada and the Hop Back/Yeast (Mark Garetz)
  cool ferment temps, mixing yeasts (Rick Magnan)
  yeast, cowboy beer (mbarre)
  New Refrigerators (Harry Covert)
   ("Brynczka, Marc J")
  Leinenkugel's Winter (THOMAS VODACEK)
  dark malt extract (Richard Cox)
  Whitbread update (donald oconnor)
  Aluminum Brewpots? (d.garrison)


Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
  (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
  listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1993 08:06:53 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert H. Reed" <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Demerara Sugar

 eurquhar at sfu.ca writes:

> While your at it
> inquire about their demerara sugar.  Makes american brown sugar look like
> ordinary granulated white sugar.  Once you taste it you'll never go back.

I have used Demerara sugar by Tate & Lyle and have also used domestic light
and dark brown sugar in homebrewing.  While I found the imported Demerara sugar
interesting, IMO it is not vastly superior to domestic brown sugar.  T&L 
Demerara sugar has a smooth, pleasant flavor of molasses.  This character is
easily emulated with a quality domestic light brown sugar or light molasses.

Rob Reed

- ------------------------------

Date: 	Mon, 29 Nov 1993 05:44:37 PST
From: Crawford.Wbst129 at xerox.com
Subject: German Malt sources request


I have been using the Belgians malts for a while and would like to try some
other malts to see what effect it has on the malty character of my beer.  I
have seen a couple of messages go by that mention good quality German malts.
Does anybody know where I could mail-order some good German malt?

Thanks,

Greg

- ------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 09:14:01 EST
From: 29-Nov-1993 0911 -0500 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: for James Clark

>Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1993 16:27:46 -0500
>From: jeclark at ucdavis.edu (James Clark)
>Subject: infection?
>
>our first batch has now been fermenting for about 36 hours and the kreusen
>has already stopped.  however, last night it was so active that we were
>getting a bubble every two or three seconds into the overflow container.
>i sniffed the stuff in the container today and it has a very sweet smell.
>does this mean that our beer was infected, or is 
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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 10:15:10 -0500
From: mgx at ornl.gov (Michael D. Galloway)
Subject: Sam Smith Nut Brown Ale - Need Clone

Ok ...

I bartered away a batch of beer with a friend, and she wants
a batch of Samual Smith's Nut Brown Ale.  Does anyone have
a tried-and-true all-grain recipe for this delicious ale?
Any suggestion as to what an appropriate yeast would be?
thanks in advance, as always.

michael



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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 09:18:00 PST
From: "Moore, Brian" <Moorebw at hvsmtp1.mdc.com>
Subject: Cheap Grains!


Howdy,

Tried to mail this directly to Coyote but it bounced.

*   Say what?  $20 for 50#  ! ...What a deal.  Send me their address/phone!

The place is called Heart's Home Beer and Winemaking Supply (800-392-8322) 
(Insert disclaimer of your choice here). The deal is for a 50# sack of Pale 
Klages for $19.95. Shipping here to Alabam' is about $12. To Utah, probably 
more like $25. Heart's also has neat glass blow-off tubes.

                                   Brian Moore

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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 09:09:15 -0500
From: paul.beard at gatekeeper.mis.tridom.com (Paul Beard)
Subject: Desired format for file distribution

 In reference to Mark Stevens' comments on the need to stay away from
vendor-specific
 file formats, I concur; I am all for PostScript file dumps. I assume most
 of us have access to a PostScript laser printer and as long as we keep
 things at Level I PS for awhile, it should work great. 
 
 If anyone wants to help out the new brewers like myself by assembling some
 references as PostScript files, please feel free. I've never found myself
 researching/reading as much as I have since I got interested in this. Some
 folks think cooking or woodworking are knowledge-intensive; brewing borders
 on wizardry!


Paul Beard
AT&T Tridom, 840 Franklin Court, Marietta, GA 30067 
404 514-3798 * FAX: 404 429-5419 * tridom!paul.beard/beardp at tridom.com



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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 10:59:51 EST
From: Mark Stickler Internet Mail Name <mstickle at lvh.com>
Subject: Leinenkugel, Weizenbock and H20 ph.

In HBD 1285 Tom Vodacek writes:

From: THOMAS VODACEK <VODACEK at uwplatt.edu>
Subject: Leinenkugel's Winter

I have heard that one of the megabrewers bought up Leinenkugel's
last year and that regular Leinie"s is no longer brewed in
Chippewa Falls, just specialty seasonal beers.  Can anyone tell me
the true story?

I attended a Pennsylvania Beer Festival recently and, along with a bunch
of micro breweries, Miller and Strohs were present. Miller had their two
all barley malt beers (I liked the ale) and two Leinenkugel beers (one
with a red label and the other with a black label). Miller said they now
own Leinie's but still brew it  at  Chippewa Falls. Strohs had three 
different lines of beers. One called Augsberger included a "dopplebock"
that had little or no aroma and could not have possibly been a true
dopplebock. There was also a Signature series and a Cream Ale made by
a company in Canada (starts with an "S") that had no label on the bottle,
just raised glass lettering. Nice bottle, okay beer. The best beer was
probably Red Feather Ale made in Chambersburg, Pa.

*****

Just recently returned from Munich and the best beer I had was a weizenbock
from Schneider called Avintinus. It is served in a very unique wheat beer
glass at their beer hall near Marienplatz.

*****

Here's my homebrew related question: I have been brewing for three years
now (all grain for 2 1/2 years) and have not had too many problems. I
and my friends think the beer tastes fine (I also took first place in a
LOCAL contest in the pale beer catagory in '92 with a Dortmunder Export).
However, I usually taste a slight mettalic off-flavor. I think it might
be related to my water ph. Basically my water ain't base, in fact its
acidic. I have a spring feed house and the ph is in the 4.0-5.0 range.
As a result I usually have to add Calcium Carbonate to RAISE me mash ph
rather than gypsum to lower it! Is this really strange? My shower has 
a tendency to turn copper blue every several months! This my be a
question for the plumber's digest but its the acidic water slowly
eating away at my copper pipes? I haven't splurged for a complete
water analysis yet but I'm certain the water is soft (I boil it and
get no white residue). Any advice? TIA.

Mark Stickler

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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 08:19:15 +0800
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Young's yeast

        Does anyone out there in HBD land have any experiences with Young's 
ale yeast? Maybe someone in the UK has some experiences with this yeast.

Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1993 11:36:27 -0500
From: WKODAMA at aba.com
Subject:  Siphon Hot Wort

In #1280, Andy Rowan asked how to keep the pot scrubber on the
end of his siphon.

Use a sanitized, intelligently placed rubber band to keep the
scrubby on, and make sure it's a copper scrubby.

Hoppy trails,
Wesman


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Date:         Tue, 30 Nov 93 11:11:18 CST
From: Paul Sovcik <U18183%UICVM at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject:      Bottling Sanitation Experiment

Well, after a year of "taking" from the HBD, I will "give" a little back.
In the spirit of Jack Schmidling and true science, I decided to conduct an
experiment that would help me decide on the value of sanitizing my bottles
in terms of homebrew taste.
MATERIALS AND METHODS:  One five gallon batch of porter was prepared using
standard homebrew procedures. At bottling time the bottles were divided into
three groups. Group one was unsantitized bottles that were only rinsed out
after the last homebrew was emptied from them. Group two was santized with
a weak bleach solution with a contact time under 3 minutes and rinsed with
tap water, the bottles in this group were actually filled with about 3 oz.
of solution and this was swirled about once. Group 3 was anally sanitized with
a full soak for 30 min in a weak bleach solution, and then rinsed with tap H2O.
The bottles were then separated and stored under similar aging conditions.

RESULTS:   The anally sanitized batch and the "casually" sanitized batch
 (groups 3 and 2, respectively) did not differ in terms of taste. The unsanitiz
ed batch of bottles (Group 1), however, had a noticable off flavor. This was
confirmed in both an unblinded way (I tasted the marked bottles) and in a
blinded way (I poured for a friend without telling him that one was bad!)

DISCUSSION:  I conclude from my results that sanitation is necessary, but
anal retentive sanitation is not.  Actually, I expected to find that
sanitization was not necessary, and that the unsanitized group would be fine.
I also was surprised that the off-flavor (which I cant identify...it was kind
of a cidery taste most promenent in the aftertaste...a "thinness", if you will)
was prominent in many of my early attempts (about 5 yrs. ago) at brewing.

 Well, just my futile attempt to try an actual (gasp) experiment here,
 instead of relying on the contradictory opinions of "expert" authors.

- --------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Sovcik                      | Email- U18183 at uicvm.uic.edu
University of Illinois at Chicago|
Department of Pharmacy Practice  | "I Take Drugs Seriously..."
Chicago, Il                      |

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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 09:36:57 -0800
From: tims at ssl.Berkeley.Edu
Subject: cleaning Easymasher, big tuns

Hello Homebrewers,
	I have been using Mr. Schmidling's Easymasher system
for about 5 batches now, and have found it to perform as
advertised, that is, very well and very easy.  I have run into
one small problem, which is that it seems to be getting alittle
clogged after multiple uses, leading to stuck or slow sparges.
Examination shows some of the screen holes plugged.  I have
gone after it with needles and a toothbrush, but does anyone
else have a good method for cleaning?  Also, I could replace
the screen every 5 batches or so.  Hints?
	My other question has to do with setting up my own
pico-brewery, for 10-15 gallon batches.  I would like to 
set up a large mash tun, made out of some good metal material,
like a half barrel or someting.  Questions are, what is good
way to set up sparge (would Easymasher work?) or false bottom
the diameter of the tun with holes.  Also, every commercial
brewery I have seen has two tuns, one for mashing, one for 
boiling.  Is there a good way to use the one vessel for both
(ala Easymasher)?  I have liked the time savings coming from
starting to boil immediately with the sparge, but I wouldn't
want to be hiking from my garage to stove 2 cups-at-a-
time with sparge output. What do others do?  Lastly, would you
recommend getting a propane burner, or using natural gas,
tapped in from house supply (assuming I could do this or have
this done without turning my house into a Hindenburg.)
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Tim Sasseen 

 
	

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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 09:28:30 -0800
From: Drew Lynch <drew at chronologic.com>
Subject: Re: Counterpressure filler 

Al (and net-folk),
  I also have one of the CP fillers like the one you describe.  I
found that one additional step helps keep down foaming: Before I close
the beer flow, I close the gas out valve.  I then close the beer flow,
and reopen the gas out valve slowly.  It adds a little time, but I've
found it reduces the likely hood of last second foam buildup.

  I was curious about a couple of things...

1) What pressure do you run the system at? 

2) I was considering replacing the gas in and beer in valves with ball
valves, and adding a ball valve to the gas out line.  It seems to me
that this would save a lot of finger wear and tear.  Has anyone else
tried this?

			      Drew Lynch
		Chronologic Simulation, Los Altos, Ca.
			   (415)965-3312x18
			 drew at chronologic.com


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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 12:48:25 EST
From: yeebot at aol.com
Subject: Help!

I'm not sure this should be posted here, but knowing how hooked up everyone
here is I though I should give it a try. If anyone can suggest a better
suited forum, please...

A) I know a fellow who's interested in brewing a beer specifically for an
Asian market. He'd like to license a brewery with extra capacit
y.x Unfortunately, he doesn't have a recipie, just an idea of what the
end-product should taste like. There are similar beers already on the market
but not from any large brewers. Does anybody know how he would develop a
recipie? A consultant, perhaps? Will the brewery be able to work with him?
Can anybody suggest a brewery, preferably on the west side of the US? Thanks
alot.

B) How do I get in touch with Pierre Celis? (I hate to ask but) does he speak
English, I heard he doesn't?

Michael Yee
Angst Brewing Co., NY

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Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 20:52:00 +0000
From: SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42 at ptp.hp.com
Subject: beerhunter - SF BAy area

Item Subject: beerhunter - SF Bay area


For any viewers in the SF Bay Area, Channel 9 (PBS) will be running the
Beerhunter Series next Saturday (12/4) Starting at 3:00 and continuing through
7:30.

Mike Schrempp

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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 12:57:09 CST
From: bjw at techsun1.cray.com (Benjamin Woodliff)
Subject: Re: Leinenkugel's Winter



VODACEK at uwplatt.edu comments and queries:

> Just had some of Leinenkugel's Winter beer. Not bad.  Reminds me
> of my last few batches of oktoberfest that ended up much too dark.

The chocolate malt is really emphasized by the brewery-- very distinct,
and the slight boost in alcohol content seems appropriate for a
wintertime beer.  It's a specialty beer, available for only two months:
Nov - Dec '93.

> I have heard that one of the megabrewers bought up Leinenkugel's
> last year and that regular Leinie"s is no longer brewed in
> Chippewa Falls, just specialty seasonal beers.  Can anyone tell me
> the true story?
 
Jacob Leinenkugel Brewery of Chippewa Falls was purchased by Miller
Brewing Co. in 1988.  Apparently Miller was very interested in
acquiring an established beer with a regionally popular label while the
Chippewa Falls brewery needed capital and increased brewing capacity to
service the heavy beer markets in the Milwaukee-Chicago corridor.  The
aquisition finally broke the 120 or so years of Leinenkugel family
ownership although the family still runs the brewery.  A friendly
arrangement as far as it goes; the expected outcries from loyal drinkers.

The first year, Miller did nothing to affect the product.  A year or so
later they started using the Leinenkugel label on beer made in Milwaukee
using the Leinenkugel recipe.  To the exception of the water that is,
as Chippewa Falls has a world-class pure water spring that the brewery
draws from.  Leinie's regular is made in both locations-- it depends on
distributorship which location your local supply comes from.

Thus far, what you've heard is correct.  Each specialty beer (Leinenkugel's
Limited, Red Lager, Bock, the Dark Lager from last year, and the Winter
Lager from this year) are made exclusively at the Chippewa Falls
brewery.  There are no immediate plans to change this as the brewing
practices of the specialty beers will keep it mostly regionally
successful while Miller continues to probe the mega-market with its own
speciality products for now (e.g. Miller Amber, Reserve, Clear, etc.).

Ben Woodliff


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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 10:43:42 -0800
From: froeh at texan.ecc.naa.rockwell.com (Michael Froehlich)
Subject: A Wedding, Homebrew, and Texas



Hello Fellow Homebrewers,

    I have made a great decision in my life.  No, it does not concern whether
I will use a counter-flow chiller over a immersion chiller (definitely the
counter-flow).  I have asked a wonderful girl in Texas to be my wife.  The
wedding has been set for July 2, 1994 in Fort Worth, TX.

    I want to provide a substantial amount of the beer for the reception.
I am going to try the logistical equivalent of the Desert Storm in homebrewing
by brewing 50 gallons beer, 10-15 gallons of mead, and 15 gallons of hard cider.
All of the beverages will be in the 5 gallon kegs to allow for easy storage,
transporation, and serving.  It will be  a sizable reception of about
400 guests.  This may not be enough beer but with the Coors Light (ughhh!!)
kegs for the Mother-in-Law, this should be a good start.

    Here is my dilemma, I live in Los Angeles, CA and either have to brew here
and transport there or brew in Texas on the few weekends that I go back.
Either way, I will need a place to store the beer out of the Texas heat. If
anyone can help me by suggesting a storage place or allowing me to brew with
their equipment, I would be most grateful (even compensational with the beer
that is brewed).  Please respond at the E-mail below.


Brewing for a Better Tomorrow,

Michael Froehlich




/*
Michael Froehlich     (310) 647-1482 

froeh at ecr.ecc.naa.rockwell.com  or froeh at 129.172.56.36            
*/


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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 13:34:59 -0600
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Whitbread-continued

I just got off the phone with Scott Birdwell of DeFalco's of Houston.
His is one the few homebrew shops that got some of the new Whitbread
yeast. DeFalco's is known for its high standards, and for its wide
assortment of products. Scott has been selling the Whitbread yeast
now for several months. Anyone wanting info on how this yeast has
done in homebrewing, as well as comparisons with other strains (he
carries them all- dry and liquid) can contact him at 713-523-8154.

George Fix
 


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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 14:49:40 EST
From: rchilder at schwab.com (richard a childers)
Subject: Turkey Leftovers & Scrumpy


( sent to Home Brew Digest )


I was telling a friend of mine about recent efforts to create a cherry
mead, and we started talking about brewing in general.

Amidst our discussion, my friend mentioned "scrumpy".

"Scrumpy" is a British brew, usually beer ( although it can be cider )
to which has been added, in addition to the more conventional fermen-
 -table materials, some sort of meat.

The concept apparently extends back through antiquity. Naturally, the
question of "why" arose.

My friend asserted that the addition of meat to the ferment created a
better head ... foamier, longer-lasting. This, he confided, was straight
from a friend of his, whom brewed at 20 Tank Brewery, here in San Fran-
 -cisco. ( Said friend added turkey to his home brews, not to 20 Tanks'
professional products, I hasten to add. )

I speculate that there might be an element of truth to this - perhaps
the addition of meat, after decomposition in an environment otherwise
devoid of the usual corrupting bacteriological agents, results in free
colloids in the solution, which not only change the taste in a subtle
way, but have the valuable and primary additional consequence of changing
the characteristics of the brew's resulting foam, when poured.

So, if you were wondering what to do with those turkey leftovers, now,
you have a way to get rid of that chunk of breast meat, and contribute
to the cause of brewing science, simultaneously ...	(-:


- -- richard

( PS : replies to <pascal at netcom.com>, please. )



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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 15:12:32 EST
From: U-E68316-Scott Wisler <wisler_scott at ae.ge.com>
Subject: cool ferment temps

Ed talks about having a cold basement and the use of the Brewbelt.

I too have a basement that gets down to around 60 F or below in the winter
and had a slow start on an ale last Janurary.  After 3 days I
figured I had to do something.  My solution was to waterbath the carboy
in a 20 gal plastic trash can.  

Total cost: 0$  The trash can was holding Al cans for recycling, and my 
neighbor had a `gerbol from hell' that chewed up their fish tank - so he 
donated an aquarium heater to the cause.

There was a circumfrential temperature gradient in the trash can, so I will 
use 2 heaters next time.  I will also use some bleach in the water during 
the secondary fermentation.  But overall it worked pretty well.

The waterbath with aquarium heater is also an effective way to maintain
temperature while growing up yeast starters during the winter.

Ed, thanks for telling us about the Brewbelt problems.  


scott

swisler at c0431.ae.ge.com
GE Aircraft Engines
Cincinnati, OH 

`I've learned that you shouldn't confuse a black crayon and a tootsie roll'
                                                         -age 6

>From Live and Learn and Pass it On  by H Jackson Brown

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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 15:07:44 EST
From: Keith MacNeal 30-Nov-1993 1501 <macneal at pate.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Ice beer/Mixing yeast

Coyote, where have you been?  Ice Beer is getting alot of hype in the Northeast
US and in Canda.  Molson, Labatts, and Genessee are all offering Ice Beer.
They talk about brewing at ice cold temperatures, not fermenting (I considering
brewing to be the entire process from mashing to bottling) so I don't get
too worked up about the advertising terminology (for this and any other
product).  I believe Ice Beer has been discussed a few times in here and
I'm pretty sure someone even verified that "freeze distillation" is not 
regulated/prohibited the same way as regular distillation.

Someone asked about mixing yeasts in beer.  I've read that American Cream
Ale and Kolsch styles of beer used both ale and lager yeasts.  The recent
posting about Wyeast strains listed a new Kolsch yeast which has both lager
and ale characteristics.

Keith MacNeal
Digital Equipment Corp.
Hudson, MA

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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 12:37:16 -0800
From: Dan Needham <dann at hpsadr2.sr.hp.com>
Subject: Soda Ash Residue

I threw some labeled bottles in a sink of hot water last night
and sprinkled some soda ash on top.  In the morning the labels
slipped off nicely but there was a thin opaque film that I rubbed
off the outside of the bottles with hot water.  The film is also
on the inside.  A bottle brush will get some out, but there are still
patches with brush streaks.  Running them through the dishwasher rinse
cycle didn't remove more.

Is the film from the soda ash, the glue on the labels, or water chemicals?
I've usually used chlorinated TSP in the past, and will go back to that
if soda ash is a problem.  Also what is the chemical name for soda ash?

Thanks for your help.

Dan Needham

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Date: 30 Nov 93 14:21:00 CST
From: "DEV::SJK" <SJK%DEV.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Noche Buena y Leon/Guiness error/FAQ format


   All this talk of Noche Buena (anyone know where I can get it in
southern CA?) reminds me of one of the best bottled beers I've ever
had.  It's called Leon and it's brewed in the Mexican state of
Yucatan.  Some buddies and I were out cruising around the jungle and
climbing the odd pyramid or two when we ran across this stuff at a
cerveceria in some town I never knew the name of.  They had Corona and
Leon (?caliente o frio?).  Being familiar with Corona, the only choice
was Leon, whatever that might be.  Well, as it turned out, Leon was a
very tasty dark red Vienna lager. Yar!  My favorite style!  I KNEW all
that chanting "malted beverage malted beverage malted malted beverage
beverage" on the airplane on the way down would please the Maya beer
gods.  Very well-balanced, not very sweet but with lots of body, and
almost no hop aroma.  A little like Spaten Oktoberfest in taste, only
a little drier.  A case of these babies on the veranda at Uxmal in the
rain, jungle all around, a belly full of pollo pibil, and a real
Havana cigar (I know, ruins the taste.  Wait 'til Leon numero cinco
before lighting up.) is heaven indeed.  Stupid guy tricks.  !Muy
fabuloso!
   As I remember it was about $8US a case to begin with, $3 if you
brought all your empties back (!).  They reuse rather than recycle
their bottles.  Either one helluva ("Oh, sorry" -- T. Jones 'A Fairy
Tale') bottle-washer or the worst job in the Beer World.  We looked
around in Merida on our return from deepest darkest Mexico and
couldn't find it.  As Merida is the only thing that even resembles a
city in the area, you'd think it'd be a good market.  I really gotta
wonder where this stuff is brewed.  'Course, we could have missed
it...  We also hunted a LOT for precious bottles of Leon upon our
return to Cancun (having been unable to refrain from quaffing them
within minutes of having said "let's save these"), but to no avail. 
Next trip I will make a serious effort to hunt this brewery down.  I
guarantee a case of this stuff will be one of my carry-ons when we
come back from Cancun this September.  Anyone care to trade for some
Cranberry Lambic?  ;-).

   While I'm not working, I had an interesting (embrassing, really)
experience the other night at the house of some buddies'.  These guys
have a keg fridge that is always well-appointed.  They've had SA,
Spaten Okt, Anchor, Newcastle, etc. you get the idea (They live in
Costa Mesa, CA.  Address avail on request).  Well, I went over, helped
myself to a free whatever was on tap, and thought to myself "that's
the darkest beer they've ever had here."  Looked, smelled, and tasted
like a porter.  My first thought was SN Porter (way off!), but it
wasn't sweet enough.  This went on for a while and I finally had to
ask.  The answer was Guiness.  I really felt dumb.  You'd think that
somebody who drinks as much of the stuff as I do (my cat's name is
Guiness) could pick out at least the tanginess of a Guiness.
   There are two things that I can think of that might explain/excuse
me:  1) the keg was at the proper temperature ('bout 55?) so what
little sweetness there is may have come through and 2) while the keg
may have been conditioned at one point with nitrogen (or is it CO2 &
nitrogen?), it was about half gone and was being dispensed with CO2
only.  It definitely did not have a typical Guiness head (big bubbles
that didn't last very long).  At no time did it really taste like
Guiness to me.  Thoughts?  Ridicule?

   And finally (finally!), a comment or two on Mark Steven's comments
on special-format FAQs.  I think that while a rearranged or different
format FAQ IS of limited usefulness (I rearrange my own), this would
mean that much of the stuff already in the archives is of similar low
worth (eg, brfware, brewsheets, images, co2.c, etc.).  I work with
1974 technology (VMS, VT330) and do not have access to even PostScript
(Though I'm not sure.  Hard to tell with the hindrance called "VMS".) 
I think it's a mistake to say "let's use something everybody has"
because that is the case, as Mark says, only with flat files. I'd
still like to see what the brewsheet looks like.  If there's enough
interest, and it's acceptable to the good folks at Stanford, then Bob
should get to post his reformatted FAQ.  I think we have a little
pride in having accomplished something here.  Bob spent his own time
on something he thought he himself might find useful.  Having
accomplished this and, in fact, finding it useful, he simply wants to
know if anyone else MIGHT ('s'free, you know) also find it useful. 
Nada mas.

   Dos mas cervezas rapido, por favor.  Gracias y buenos noches.


   Scott Kaczorowski
   sjk%c17fcs.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com




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Date: Mon, 29 Nov 93 14:58:53 MST
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Used Kegs?

Now that it appears DeFalco's won't ship used soda kegs anymore, does anyone
have a good source that will ship small quantities at reasonable prices?  My
local shop wants $35 each for them, which appears pretty high when compared to
DeFalco's $15 + shipping.  Maybe part of the difference is made up in the fact
that the homebrew shop has already replaced the o-rings, etc. and maybe
DeFalco's hasn't (hadn't).  This is no rush, I have two kegs on loan, but it
would be nice to find a good price sometime so I can own my own.

As long as I'm talking kegs, I have a question.  When you shake a keg to
carbonate it, it is inevitable that some of the liquid will be forced into the
gas inlet hose.  I've seen check valves advertised in some magazines, but they
are designed to keep the liquid out of your regulator (a good idea).  They
don't appear to address the issue of contamination via a dirty gas hose.  Do
you sanitize your gas hose?  How?  I don't particularly like the idea of
dissassembling the gas hose every time I do a batch, but if that's what it
takes...

Norm

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Date: Tue, 30 Nov 93 13:10:00 PST
From: "SIMPSON, Mark (x-4378)" <Simpson at po2.rb.unisys.com>
Subject: SS Fitting


Howdy Brewpeople!

I am trying to rebuild my SS sparge keg, which currently has a brazed-on 
galvanized, screw-in fitting
for my 1500 watt, electric hot water heating element, low density type (ala 
Rodney Morris' RIM system).
I would like to remove the fitting and replace it with a stainless steel 
boss fitting, as I am having corrosion
problems.  Anybody out there have a good source for large SS fittings???

Thanks mucho,

Mark, The Brew-Cat

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1286, 12/01/93