FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Snakebite ("DAVE SMOLINSKY")
  SS keg question (Jim Grady)
  FZ, Icehouse Ale (Norman Farrell)
  Frankenmuth Dark ("Ball, Timothy B")
  LaBatt Maximum Ice (btalk)
  'Ice' ain't nice... (Darin Bennett)
  Re: Monks Ale, filtering comments (Jim Busch)
  work chiller question / 3-gal keg source (06-Dec-1993 1025 -0500)
  %Utilization / Plumbing Problems (npyle)
  Haze or Contamination (Andrey Shaw)
  Commercial Beer Matrix, Part 1/2 (npyle)
  XXX,yeast,ice,plugged screens (Russell Gelinas)
  Interested in Homebrew Digest (Thomas Livaccari)
  Hop bitterness longevity (Stephen Dillinger)
  Dry vs. Liquid Yeasts (WEIX)
  NaOH a cleaning agent? (Carlo Fusco)
  Re: starter gravities revisited (Darren Aaberge)
  Wort dilution vs SG (Troy Howard)
  wort dilution vs. SG (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Help!!!  San Miguel Recipe Wanted. (EVANS)
  Re:  BBC and water chemistry (Craig Artley)
  Back To Basics Recipe (Teddy Winstead)
  Various Mailing Lists (Teddy Winstead)
  Re: Ice Beer (Stephan Marceau)
  Mac Clip Art ("David M. Fresco")
  Beer Offerings (RADAMSON)
  Oven-mashing, Over active fermentation, Old Yeast (Stefan Smagula)
  Yeast FAQ (Richard Nantel)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 6 Dec 93 07:25:00 EST
From: "DAVE SMOLINSKY" <SMOLINSKY at merlin.ndhm.gtegsc.com>
Subject: Snakebite

Hi all,
Back in September I was in Penryhndeudraeth, Wales in the U.K.  I was staying
at a B&B that had it's own small pub.  At around closing time, everyone in the
pub, except for my friends and I that were staying there, were told to leave.  
The bartender told me that the law over there states that if you are staying at
a B&B that has a pub, they have to keep the pub open until you decide to call
it quits for the night!!  Isn't that wonderful!!!
Anyhow, after hours I was chatting with the bartender and he told me about a
concoction pubs used to make, but is now illegal.  It was called a *Snakebite*.
It was a combination of equal parts of a lager and a cider (I forget what the
lager was, possibly Tetley's[??], but the cider was Strongbow).  The reason it
was outlawed was because of some chemical reaction that occured that had a not
so nice effect on brain cells.  Anyone ever heard of this or know what it does
to people's brains??  He prepared a small one for me and it tasted pretty good,
but I couldn't tell if it had an effect or not, since I was trying every beer 
in the place ;-}

Dave


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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93 8:07:43 EST
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: SS keg question

Sorry if this has been addressed before and I wasn't paying attention.
For those of you who have turned a SS keg into a brewpot, where did you
get the keg?  How much did it cost you?  I've seen references to Sanke
kegs for this.  Are these the only type of kegs to turn into brewpots?
What other kinds have people used?

Private e-mail is fine.

Many thanks in advance.
- --
Jim Grady       |"Immediately after Orville Wright's historic 12 second
grady at an.hp.com | flight, his luggage could not be located."
                |                       S. Harris

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93 07:51:54 CST
From: nfarrell at ppco.com (Norman Farrell)
Subject: FZ, Icehouse Ale

I raise a glass of my finest to the music and the memory of Frank Zappa whho
spent his career rebelling against the musical status quo as we homebrewers
rebel against top 40 mega-brew.

I saw an advert. for "Icehouse Ale" in the Houston Chronicle today.  Claimed
to be a new product and the first ice brewed ale (was I supposed to be
impressed?).  I could not tell who was the brewer.  My wife asked "why in the
world would any one make such a beer?"  Anyone out there in HBD land know of
this beer???

Regards,
Norman (nfarrell at ppco.com)

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Date: Mon, 06 Dec 93 08:32:00 est
From: "Ball, Timothy B" <ballti at uh2372p03.daytonoh.NCR.COM>
Subject: Frankenmuth Dark


I agree that Frankenmuth Dark is excellent.  Actually,   all the Frankenmuth 
beers are great.   Try Old Detroit and Frankenmuth's Pilsner.

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Date: Mon, 06 Dec 93 09:47:55 EST
From: btalk at aol.com
Subject: LaBatt Maximum Ice

A friend just brought me a couple bottles of this version of the new ice
beers. This Maximum is 7.1% alcohol by volume!
Still doesn't taste like much , but does have some kick.
This was purchased in Canada.
  Bob Talkiewicz

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 10:01:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Darin Bennett <dbennett at mailstorm.dot.gov>
Subject: 'Ice' ain't nice...

Hello all,

In HBD #1289 & #1290 the subject of Molsens' new ICE beer was discussed as
the disaster it must be.  Last weekend a buddy brought by some Miller
'ICEHOUSE' and tried to convince me it was gods' gift to beer.  It seems
to me that this should go in the same bin as the 'dry' fad.  The logo
should read: "We freeze it, so you can't taste it!"  My thanks to those
who led me to homebrew....

Keep brewin'
Darin

)-|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|-(
Darin Bennett                         <|> "I don't pretend to comprehend
Residing in Cyberspace at:            <|>  the universe.  It is much
                                      <|>  bigger than I."
dbennett at mailstorm.dot.gov            <|>                   - A. Einstein
)-|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|-(



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Date: 6 Dec 93 15:08:36 GMT
From: cssc!cong at scuzzy.attmail.com (Brian Conger )
Full-Name: Brian Conger

Subject: Wort Chiller Plans

Pretty good Step By Steps plans for a immersion wort chiller in HBD-1289 
by Mark Stewart.  I just have a couple of suggestions.

To avoid possible disaster from the failure of either a hose clamp or a hose,
I extended both the In and Out tubing on the Kettle side of the chiller up
and out of the kettle and bent it 180 degrees, then attached hoses.  Thus no
water could get in the kettle to contaminate the wort if any failure occured.

On the Cold immersion side, instead of the "SLINKY" spiral, I used a tubing
bender (about $1.50 in a hardware store where I bought the tubing) and I 
bent the tubing in concentic cirles in a flatter form.  This allow more
coil in the ice bath with a smaller pot.  You Extract brewers could do this
on both coils to allow more coil contact in smaller brew kettles.

Another tool that makes this easier is a tubing cutter.  This leaves no jagged
edges to file and cost about $3.50 - $5.00 at your local hardware store.

cong


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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 10:32:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Monks Ale, filtering comments

> From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
> Subject: CorsenBONK / Kegging Mead/ BarleyWines / Filtering
> 
> He was kind enough to share it with me, and it was...well....
> like swallowing a think rich syrupy bitey ....bowling ball!

The Monks Pale Ale is *broadly* a Tripple, and not bad.  The Monks
Brown Ale is *broadly* a brown abbey ale.  Both are pretty good
ales, brewed by a relative newcomer on the Belgian scene, new as
of around '84.  I actually prefer the Pale.
> 
> Barleywine
> the yeast used, alcohol content, carbonation, whim of the brewer?  If it's 
> alcohol content, when does doppelbock cross the line and become barleywine?
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Never!  A doppel should never exhibit the esters that are prominant in an
barleywine.  Also, the doppels tend to be darker than Bwines, although the
AHA judges seem to feel that Bwines need to be quite dark, which I believe
is nonsense.

> AHA sez:  1.065-1.120 OG.   6- 12 percent alcohol by volume.  
I think that should be 1.09X - 1.1XX, 8-XX % ABV.

> yeast, or champagne/wine yeasts.  Aged 6 months to a year.
Well, Bigfoot is not aged like this, and I dont age mine either.  It all
depends on your fermentation, if you properly attenuate the beer, the
aging time is greatly reduced.  If you bottle at 1.030, it will need 
considerable time to age, but may never be as good as one bottled at 1.020.
My latest is great at brew day + 10 weeks, or keg day + 8 weeks.  It was
darn good at 3 weeks.
> 
> *   Lagers should be warmed at the end of lagering.  But not that warm.
> More like 60. It helps them break down (diacetyl I think? Reference-check)

Lagers dont *need* to be treated like this.  A diacetyl rest at 42F can 
be used quite successfully.  Much of this depends on the yeast strain and
overall lagering methods.
> **
> filtering and stuff...
> 
> As for filtering.  Filtering bacteria requires less than a 1 micron filter.

True.  Less than .8 if I recall.

> I don't want to do that to my beer.  Filtering DOES present advantages,
> but also potential disadvantages.
> Chill haze, protein "colloids", some cellular material, and chunks
> of anything else still floating around can be filtered out.
> A level of 2 to 3 microns will do this. 5 microns will let almost
> all cells pass.  

No!  5 microns is extremely effective in removing the yeast biomass. I 
assume these are the "cells" you refer to.  

> clean up a beer, but will also CLEAN UP A BEER.  Body, head retention
> and other qualities will be lost.  The intermediate levels (2-3) will
> possibly remove some body, but not too much ( I hope).
> 

3-5 is a fine level for home and pub brewers.  It might not be perfect for
extended self life, but it is fine for a few months. Below 1 micron, and 
the foam stand will be suffer.

> falling back into body of water). It's the expense at this point.
> But it may well happen.  Someday.  But I have looked into it!

It can be done for under $50.  The 5 micron filter carts. are $23, and
a whole house filter can be bought at HW stores for $22.


Good brewing,
Jim Busch


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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93 10:29:53 EST
From: 06-Dec-1993 1025 -0500 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: work chiller question / 3-gal keg source

I made myself an immersion chiller out of 50' of copper tubing (3/8").
It works quite well, i might add.  One question:  do folks use copper
wire to tie the downtube to the coil of copper tubing?  i ask 'cuz my
wort chiller would be more rigid with this, however, it would be more
of a pain to clean.

- ----

3 gallon keg source:  BCI in TN, 3 gal general beverage container is $34.50.
5 gal corlelius is $26.50.  5 gal one-handle is 22.50.  10 gal general beverage
is $43.50 (I'm wondering about this one!  10 gallons!).  phone number is
800-284-9410.  you'll have to pay shipping.  they also deal in used co2
containers, etc,etc,etc and keg parts.

jc ferguson
littleton ma usa

(no affiliation with the company;  just a satisfied customer).

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93 9:16:41 MST
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: %Utilization / Plumbing Problems

Robert Milstead writes:

> -  A 45 minute boil of hops results in a 25% Isomerization (.25 )

and later...

> - A 5 minute boil of hops results in a 5% Isomerization (.05 )

This is interesting, but I'd like to see your whole utilization (isomerization)
table of Time vs. Isomerization.  The conventional table, posted by Jackie
Rager in Zymurgy, has 26.9% at 45 minutes and 5% at 5 minutes.  This is the
major problem with all of these IBU calculations; the utilization is
debatable.  Mark Garetz claims lower utilization across the board, there is
lots of discussion about gravity adjustments, etc. etc. etc.

Until something big comes along to straighten out the mess, I'll use Rager's
utilization numbers and formula.  Why?  Because it is very widely used in the
homebrew community, making for a good point of reference.  If someone tells me
a beer has 37 IBU, and I know (maybe I have to assume) they are using Rager's
numbers, I have a reference point to use in trying to duplicate it.  Other
adjustments/utilization tables may be more accurate, but the comparisons are
what's important to me.

**

Dion writes:

>I just had a disaster with the screen on my wort boiler plugging with
hops.  I just started all grain 5 gal boils and this is my third
batch.  The previous batches did not plug with hops.  I have a Sankey
keg with the top cut out for a boiler.  I have welded a nipple in the
side, about 2" from the bottom and right over the center is an elbow
and short nipple which dip down to within 1/2" of thte bottom.  The
end of the nipple is covered with a coarse screen.  I have no idea why
it did not plug up the first two times, but did this time.

I have had similar problems, Dion.  My course of corrective action:  use whole
hops whenever possible and always put the hops in a hop bag.  Pellets are
terrible for this problem, and the hop bag will help even with pellets.  I
would like to hear how others deal with clogging in the kettle.

Norm

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93 10:20:20 CST
From: shaw at visar.wustl.edu (Andrey Shaw)
Subject: Haze or Contamination

Recently, I opened a bottle from my first batch of beer (made 3-4 months
ago).  It was a dark extract beer that had been made without any unusual
problems and which had been sitting in my basement for several months at
room temp.  I have very much enjoyed this beer so almost all of the bottles
were gone within the first month.  Two weeks ago, I found several bottles
and put them into the refrigerator and last night opened one to drink. 
What surprised me about this beer was the haziness, which was new; all of
the previous bottles that I drank were clear.  I am puzzled as to why or
how this beer became hazy.  It tasted pretty good so I don't think that it
is bugs.  Could it be protein precipitation from being in the refrigerator?
Is it common for beers to acquire a haze after several months.  Should I
hurry up and drink all of the rest of this batch?  Any helpful comments
will be appreciated.
        On another note, based on comments that I acquired on the HBD, I
rushed out to buy Coors Winter Lager and the Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic. 
Maybe its me, but you didn't tell me, I could swear that the Coor winter
lager tastes just like Bud Dry and only when it is in a glass do I really
notice the difference (it is darker). I guess its not bad for a commercial
beer that cost me $4.29 a six pack, but it wasn't anything to get excited
about.  The Cranberry Lambic (sic) was interesting and I did kind of enjoy
it, but almost everyone I asked to taste it thought it was disgusting.  It
again wasn't anything that I would rush out and get.  Interesting and novel
but not great.

andrey shaw 


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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93 9:20:03 MST
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Commercial Beer Matrix, Part 1/2

 -Part 1/2-
The following commercial beer matrix has been gleaned from various posts in
HBD and rec.crafts.brewing.  I find it useful, if not for cloning certain
beers, for finding out what types of ingredients, OGs, etc. are pleasing to
me.  The best beers I have brewed were "clones" of commercial beers.  They
were not exact duplicates, but actually better than the originals (the
advantage of homebrewing decisions vs. making money).

I find it interesting to note that some breweries use only one type of base
malt and crystal for most or all of their beers, and still provide a wide
variety of beers.  This is probably due to the economy of mass buying, but
it shows how versatile you can be using different quantities of base malts
and crystal, and then changing hops and yeast.  I don't know anything about
the water treatments (if any) of these brews, but that could have a
considerable effect as well.

The hops are, I believe, in order of boiling time, as should be evident in
most of these beers by the hop variety.  They are not all completely
accurate, as the growing region of a particular hop can affect its flavor
profile greatly (note that Redhook gives "Yakima Hallertau", which I presume
is the American version of Mittelfrueh, although I'm not positive.  It also
lists "Tettnang", which I'm guessing is Tettnanger Tettnang, grown in
Germany).  You can see that some of this information needs work; also some
of it may be dated.

Note that I only assembled this information into a single matrix; I did not
gather it originally from the breweries.  I would appreciate similar info on
other breweries (large and small), other beers by these breweries, and any
corrections that you note.  If you tour a brewery, take notes!

RedHook Brewery, Seattle, Washington
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Beer Name   | Fermentables  |    Hops            |  Yeast  | O.G. | Comments
- -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|----------
- -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|----------
ESB          | Klages 2-row  | Willamette         | English |1.054 |Flagship
             | Crystal 60L   | Tettnang           |  Ale    |      |Product
             |               |                    |         |      |4.3%ABW
- -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|----------
Ballard      | Klages 2-row  | Eroica             | English |1.045 |3.8%ABW
 Bitter      | Crystal 40L   | Willamette         |  Ale    |      |
             |               | Cascade            |         |      |
- -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|----------
Blackhook    | Klages 2-row  | Willamette         | English |1.047 |3.9%ABW
 Porter      | Crystal 40L   | Eroica             |  Ale    |      |
             | Black Patent  | Cascade            |         |      |
             | Roasted Barley|                    |         |      |
- -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|----------
Redhook      | Klages 2-row  | Clusters           | Belgian |1.050 |4.5%ABW
 Ale         | Crystal 40L   | Willamette         |  Ale    |      |Banana
             | Black Patent  | Eroica             |         |      |overtones
             |               | Cascade            |         |      |
             |               | Yakima             |         |      |
             |               |  Hallertau         |         |      |
- -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|----------
Winterhook   | Custom-kilned | B.C. Goldings      | English |1.057 |4.8%ABW
 Christmas   | 2-row Carastan| Yakima             |  Ale    |      |Recipe
  Ale        | (Hugh Baird)  |  Hallertau         |         |      |changes
             |               | Yakima             |         |      |yearly
             |               |  Cluster           |         |      |yearly
- -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|----------
Wheathook    | Klages 2-row  | Tettnang           | English |1.034 |3.7%ABW
 Wheaten     | English Malted| Hallertauer        |  Ale    |      |German
  Ale        |  Wheat        |  Hersbrucker       |         |      |hops may
             |               | Hallertauer        |         |      |wrong
             |               |  Mittelfrueh       |         |      |
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sierra Nevada Brewing Company, Chico, California
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Beer Name   | Fermentables  |    Hops            |  Yeast  | O.G. | Comments
- -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|----------
- -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|----------
Summerfest   | Pale 2-row    | Perle              | Lager   |1.046 |3.5%ABW
             | Dextrin malt  | Hallertau          |         |      |Mittel-
             |               |                    |         |      |frueh???
- -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|----------
Pale         | Pale 2-row    | Perle              | Lager   |1.064 |5.2%ABW
 Bock        | Dextrin malt  | Mount Hood         |         |      |A beefier
             |               |                    |         |      |Summerfest
- -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|----------
Pale         | Pale 2-row    | Perle              | Ale     |1.052 |4.4%ABW
 Ale         | Dextrin malt  | Nugget             |         |      |Flagship
             | Crystal malt  | Cascade            |         |      |Product
- -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|----------
Porter       | Pale 2-row    | Nugget             | Ale     |1.058 |4.7%ABW
             | Dextrin malt  | Willamette         |         |      |
             | Crystal malt  |                    |         |      |
             | Chocolate malt|                    |         |      |
             | Black patent  |                    |         |      |
- -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|----------
Stout        | Pale 2-row    | Chinook            | Ale     |1.064 |4.8%ABW
             | Dextrin malt  | Cascade            |         |      |
             | Crystal malt  |                    |         |      |
             | Black patent  |                    |         |      |
- -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|----------
Celebration  | Pale 2-row    | Chinook            | Ale     |1.064 |5.1%ABW
 Ale         | Dextrin malt  | Cascade            |         |      |Dry hopped
             | Crystal malt  | Centennial         |         |      |
- -------------|---------------|--------------------|---------|------|----------
Bigfoot      | Pale 2-row    | Nugget             | Ale     |1.092 |10.1%ABW
 Barley      | Crystal malt  | Cascade            |         |      |Dry hopped
  Wine       |               | Centennial         |         |      |
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 -End Part 1/2-

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 12:00:33 -0500 (EST)
From: gelinas at ekman.unh.edu (Russell Gelinas)
Subject: XXX,yeast,ice,plugged screens

  With this talk of Noche Buena, I was wondering if anyone has ever seen
a dark malty beer called "XXX" out of Mexico?  It was a take on "Dos Equis",
but I don't know if it was made by the same company.  I wasn't a brewer
back then (10 years ago), but I remember it as being a good beer.

  Without dredging up the dry vs. liquid yeast debate again, I'd like to
point out that the switch from dry to liquid often brings your more subtle
brewing mistakes to the fore.  Something to watch for.

  I'm surprised to hear that Ice Bud/Ice Molson have no flavor, because
the Ice Labatts I tried had lots of flavor, most of it bad.  Strong
phenols.  Enough so I actually checked the bottle for yeast sediment
(of course there wasn't any).  Fwiw, Labatts is suing people over using
the term "ice".

  And, speaking of plugged screens, I've been having a problem with
stuck sparges.  I use the 10 gallon cooler with straining bowl type
of lauter tun.  Worked great for 20 batches, but it just was not
working anymore.  Why, I dunno.  Anyway, after having to pour the whole
mash *back* into the mash-kettle to unset the sparge (HSA anyone?),
I decided that I'd just put a stainless pot scrubber over the cooler
outlet hole, tied on with an elastic, and leave out the strainer bowl.  
Well, hey, it worked like a charm!  No clogs, a couple of quarts before 
it ran clear.  YMWV, but it's likely to become SOP for me.

Russ Gelinas
eos
unh


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Date: 06 Dec 93 12:19:58 EST
From: Thomas Livaccari <TJL at CSI.compuserve.com>
Subject: Interested in Homebrew Digest

I would be interested in receiving information about Homebrew Digest.

Tom Livaccari
204 West 80th Street, Apt. 5E
New York, NY  10024

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93 10:18:19 MST
From: fmicos!argus!dillinge at uunet.UU.NET (Stephen Dillinger)
Subject: Hop bitterness longevity

I have a question about hop bitterness stability/longevity in my bottled
beers.

The basic "problem" is that the perceived bitterness in my bottled beers seems
to fade rather quickly (over a period of weeks).  A beer that is extremely
bitter one week, is perfect the next, and a couple of weeks later the
bitterness
is very subdued.

I've tried the basic 60 minute boil, 5 minute finish, as well as various
attempts
at dry hopping (which I really like) and hopping at various times during the
boil.  All share the same lack of staying power in the hops...
Could it be the type of hops I use?  (goldings, fuggles, willamette).

Anyone know how I can get a desired level of bitterness and have it stick
around
for awhile?

Thanks in advance for any advice/ideas.

Steve Dillinger             uranus!dillinger at uunet.uu.net

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Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1993 12:09:19 -0500 (CDT)
From: WEIX at swmed.edu
Subject: Dry vs. Liquid Yeasts

Hi,
 I would just like to give a small plug here for the Yeast FAQ. I talk 
about the magical aspects known as strain variation. Roughly this means: 
"Not all yeast are the same". Not all dry yeast, not all liquid, not all 
anything! To those who are disappointed with their variety of dry yeast but 
would like to keep using dry yeast, you might try using Red Star Ale Yeast 
or Llemand Nottingham or Windsor Dry Yeast.
 Not to slam the Whitbread Dry (slam, slam, slam ), but disatisfaction with 
it's performance in my first few batches (it gave an odd taste that I don't 
know how to describe) is what drove me to compile the yeast FAQ in the 
first place. I wanted something that listed the available strains and their 
flavor characteristics.
 Beginning brewers should be especially happy with the Red Star Ale because 
of it's fast starting and clean taste.
Patrick, that annoying yeast faq guy.

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Date: 	Mon, 29 Nov 1993 13:50:00 -0500
From: carlo.fusco at canrem.com (Carlo Fusco)
Subject: NaOH a cleaning agent?


Glenn Anderson wrote:

 H> If I wash all my metal brewing equipement with a sodium hydroxide 
 H> solution, what's the best process for ensuring that it's all rinsed 
 H> off? Can any Microbrewers on the digest offer a 'professional' 
 H> opinion that I can take to the bank?

I seem to remember George Fix [I think] writing a short blerb on this 
topic. I seem to remember that NaOH was used to remove protein build up 
inside pipes and tubing and was later rinsed with a weak HCl solution to 
nutralize the NaOH. Can any one verify or reject this? What strength NaOH 
and HCl were used? Can someone please explain how to the use NaOH as a 
cleaning agent?

Thanks,
Carlo

- ---
 * Freddie 1.2.5 * email: carlo.fusco at canrem.com  Sharon,Ontario,Canada

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93 10:48:52 PST
From: dra at jsc-ws.sharpwa.com (Darren Aaberge)
Subject: Re: starter gravities revisited

Cushing Hamlen asks about gravity of starters in HBD 1289.

I initially used starters with a gravity similar to what I was brewing.  I
was amazed at the difference in lag time between using a starter and not
using a starter.  Then someone on the HBD claimed that starters should be
1.020, so I switched to that gravity for my starters.  It seems like I still
fot short lag times, but the yeast seemed to be very weak and I was getting
high final gravities.  

I now use starters that are between 1.030 and 1.040 and am very happy with the
results.

Just my $.02,
Darren Aaberge

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93 12:46:06 PST
From: troy at scubed.scubed.com (Troy Howard)
Subject: Wort dilution vs SG


Chushing Hamlen (cush at msc.edu) asks if there is a curve or
analytic function fit to experimental data to describe wort gravity as
a function of (presumably) dilution volume.

You do not really need experimental data.  This is a rather simple problem.

Wort gravity is a measure of density.  So, using the following notation:

D0 = initial density
V0 = initial volume
Da = density of added liquid (for water Da=1.000)
Va = added volume
Df = final density

then, adding Va of liquid of density Da to a volume V0 of liquid with density
D0, will result in a liquid of density

      (D0V0 + DaVa)
Df = ---------------
       (V0 + Va)

or (in case the spaces don't line up when you read the above)

Df = (D0*V0 + Da*Va)/(V0 + Va)

As an example, if you have 5 gallongs of 1.060 wort, and add one gallon
of water to it, you will have 6 gallons of

(1.060*5gallons + 1.000*1gallon)/(6 gallons) = 1.050 wort.


 -Troy

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93 16:12:44 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: wort dilution vs. SG

Not sure what you want.  You mean "what happens if I add 1 gallon of
water to 4 gallons of 1.040 wort?"  Almost right formula:
	1.040 wort = 40 "points/gallon" = 160 "points" in 4 gallons
	160 points/5 gallons = 32 points/gallon = 1.032 wort

To do it right, you first convert from gravity to degrees Plato.  Fix
posted a cubic approximation to the tables recently.  This gives you
%sugar (by weight as sucrose) (1 deg Plato = 1% sugar w/w).  Multiply
by the mass of the solution (4 gallons * ???lbs/gal * 1.040) to get
the mass of sugar.  Add your gallon of water, and compute the mass
of the new solution (original mass + mass of 1 gallon of water (don't
forget to temperature compensate)).  Then compute the percentage of
sugar in the new solution (100 * original sugar mass / solution mass).
Finally, convert back to S.G. using the Plato table (or formula).

A close approximation to deg Plato is to divide the "points" by 4.
But if you use that, you might as well use the simple method in the
first paragraph.

I haven't compared this to Steve Piatz's table, but his code looks
like my first method.

=S

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 15:43:29 -0600 (CST)
From: EVANS at smsd.jsc.nasa.gov
Subject: Help!!!  San Miguel Recipe Wanted.

Hello,
	I'm looking for a recipe that is similar to San Miguel.  As I'm 
pretty new at this, I'd prefer an extract-based recipe.  I've checked the
Cat's Meow and haven't found anything.  I'd really appreciate any help
offered.  

Please post or respond to "evans at newton.jsc.nasa.gov"  Responding directly
to this post will not work.

Thanks in advance,

Chris Evans

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 93 15:00:14 -0700
From: Craig Artley <cartley at dix.Mines.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Re:  BBC and water chemistry

> Date: Sat,  4 Dec 93 07:28:00 -0600
> From: chuck.wettergreen at aquila.com (Chuck Wettergreen)
> Subject: BBC and water chemistry
> 

> 

> I just received in the mail an unsolicited four-color bi-fold *I'm not
> sure what this is* "advertisement" from The Boston Brewing Company.
[...]
> Page four
> continues the Koch famly travails from Germany to the land of
> opportunity, offers "Come for a tour" AND **offers a FREE Sam Adams T-
> shirt and a FREE subscription to the Boston Beer Company Quarterly
> Newsletter** !!!

I got one of those in the GABF edition of the local brewspaper, Rocky
Mountain Brews.  I'm still waiting for the T-shirt.  Guess I should have
checked "Distributor" rather than "Beer Lover"....
- ---
Craig Artley    cartley at mines.colorado.edu    (303) 273-3479
Geophysics Dept., Colorado School of Mines, Golden, CO 80401

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Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1993 20:31:50 -0600 (CST)
From: winstead%brauerei at cs.tulane.edu (Teddy Winstead)
Subject: Back To Basics Recipe

Fellow Homebrewers:


My last few batches (Double Bock, Amber Ale, and Papazian's "Holiday Cheer")
have all been severely lacking.  The Double Bock froze in the fridge, and
had to come out (imagine the mess :-( ),resulting in estery off-flavors from
the increased fermentation temps, the Amber Ale suffered from a lack
of hoppiness and a little HSA, and the "Holiday Cheer" is awful (I think
that I should've peeled the ginger) it has a medicinal, phenolic, rough
(almost dirty, like mud) flavor to it.

So here's my query(s):

Could somebody please send me (via e-mail, so as not to clutter this list) a
good, easy recipe (preferably something with some grains added to the boil
for extra body)? Lots of hops, too.  Also, one with a liquid yeast.  Beleive
it or not, I have troubles with liquid yeasts.  They seem to have like a 30
hour lag time which makes me incredibly nervous.

Also, could somebody tell me whether or not it's a good idea to put soap in
the dishwasher when doing your bottles in there?  I'm a little worried that
the dishwasher method's detracting from my beer quality.

Finally, could somebody give me a good, step by step method for cleaning and
rinsing my carboy (since I don't have a hookup for my bottle-washer anymore,
I think that maybe lack of rinsing has contributed to off flavors.


Thanks a million, and happy brewin'

Teddy Winstead

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 17:12:20 -0600 (CST)
From: winstead%brauerei at cs.tulane.edu (Teddy Winstead)
Subject: Various Mailing Lists

Could somebody please e-mail me the addresses for:

The Lambic Mailing List
The Mead Mailing List
The Cider Digest (if it still exists?)

Thanks alot,

Ted

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Date: 	Mon, 6 Dec 1993 09:54:00 -0500
From: stephan.marceau at canrem.com (Stephan Marceau)
Subject: Re: Ice Beer


james>yea, i tried some budweiser ice draft (i was at a friends house and he was
james>swilling it.  i didn't buy it, HONEST!).  i think this is similar to the
james>molson ice.  i have to agree with andy.  STAY AWAY FROM THE STUFF.  no
tase
james>at all.  i hear they use more corn to give it a smoother flavor.
james>this reminds me of something:  five years ago i was involved in an
exchange
james>program with german students.  when they were over here king cobra was
james>still being advertised on t.v.  the adds said, "goes down smooth with no
james>after taste."
james>i remember the german students rolling on the ground with laughter after
james>hearing this.  i asked one what was so funny (at this time i had never
james>really tried any beer) and he said, "beer with no aftertaste?  the after
james>taste is the most important part of the beer!"
james>three months later i was in germany.  i tasted real beer for the first
time
james>and found out that he was right.
james>- --james

Ya, it's quite funny, the Labatt Ice beer is the first beer that my wife
actually likes: because of the no after-taste!!! And I have been trying for
so many batches to make something that she would actually enjoy - I guess
I was on the wrong path with berries!!!

I will admit that I do buy the Ice beer for guests who like "tasteless beer",
that's what I call it! That makes them laugh...

Later

Steph
- ---
 * MR/2 1.36 NR * I am free of prejudices. I hate everyone equally.

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 20:16:42 +0500 (EST)
From: "David M. Fresco" <fresco at gibbs.oit.unc.edu>
Subject: Mac Clip Art

Hello,

I'm interested in some beer related clip art.  In particular, I'm looking
for a recycle symbol (with the three arrows) in the form of a scalable
pict.  Please send replies to fresco at unc.edu

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=  David M. Fresco                                          =
=  Department of Psychology                                 =
=  CB#3270, Davie Hall                      __o             =
=  Chapel Hill, NC 27599                    \<,             =
=  Internet:  fresco at unc.edu              `,/'(*)           =
=             fresco at med.unc.edu         (*) . ./"""        =
=  Voice:  (919) 962-5082               """"                =
=  Fax:    (919) 962-2537                                   =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=



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Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1993 20:44:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: RADAMSON at delphi.com
Subject: Beer Offerings


Fellow Brewers:

I am blessed with a dilemma this season of having an opportunity
to influence the tap offerings of my local pub.  It has been and
will continue to be a brilliant, almost quite proper, Irish Pub.
It even goes by the name of Mustang Sally's.  For the record, it
has to be the freshest, best poured pint of Guinness on Long
Island, NY - and we've hunted quite a few along our search.
Anyway, his other offerings are Bass, Woodpecker Cider,
Kilian's, Bud & Coors.

So, we (my brew partner & I) had an idea of providing a holiday
ale (Anchor Christmas, Sierra Celebration, even SA Winter Lager,
etc) to him to serve.  He could charge whatever for a pint,
except for us, of course.  Our investment is basic:  add a more
beer knowledgable crowd to his clientelle; get the place known
for a rotating special seasonal Micro beer, etc.  I know, skip
the details...

Anyway, he's going along with this so far.  You're saying, "So,
what's the delemma?" - Certainly not the selection!!  I love
this season!

What I'd like to throw at him are some industry marketing blitz
crap that will help convince him that the special beer will sell
(even though he has no cost in the keg (at this point anyway)).
He may have to decide which current tap to remove.  Can anyone
start me in the right direction for trades, articles, etc.?

Thanks in advance,

Richard Adamson,  Brewer, Systems guy, Steeler Fan 
  - RADAMSON at delphi.com
  

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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 21:45:18 -0500 (EST)
From: smag at echonyc.com (Stefan Smagula)
Subject: Oven-mashing, Over active fermentation, Old Yeast 

			OVEN-MASHING
I have a tip for those who are thinking about trying to mash for the first
time.  This is how I did my first partial-grain batch.  It was easy! 
Instead of buying or making an insulated box, I used my 8 gal.
enamel brewpot, and put it into a warm oven for the steeping periods. I made su
re the oven temperature was near that of the mash with the help of a
thermometer. When I needed to raise the temperature of the grains (I did a
"step-infusion"...I think?), I took the pot out of the oven and heated it
slowly on the stove.  I was happy, my mash was happy :->  
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
		Help! I violated the 11th Commandment:
This same 5 gal. batch (1# of cara-pils, 1# of crystal, 4# pale malt, 11# Dry
Malt Ext. with about 10 oz of various hops, an OG of >1.100) had one
problem: it fermented so fiercely the foam filled all the headspace in my 7
gal carboy and went all over the floor, leaving me with <3 gallons of brew.
It was an expensive mess, but worse, it was a sin ;-)  Is this normal for
high gravity/high hop brews? (this is my first) and how do I avoid it? 
Note: I did not separate the hot/cold break from the wort.  I used Wyeast
#1214 (Belgian Ale).  I don't think this problem was due to my mashing
method--the wort tested OK with iodine.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
		Any advice on using old yeast?
I cleaned the yeast from the trub of this same batch using the method
outlined in the Yeast FAQ--thanks Weix, the FAQ's awesome!  (Roughly: boil
some water, cool, mix with sediment, let settle, pour off everything but
settled yeast, repeat, and then pour the cleaned yeast into a sanitized
mason jar and store in your fridge).  Now, can I safely use this yeast even
though I cleaned it over a month ago?  I have a microscope--so I could
check for bacteria--but I'm not sure what levels of bacteria are "safe"
(there was a good number of critters in the original Wyeast package!), and
I'm not sure about the viability of yeast stored this long.  Thanks.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
[enter non-professional mode] I think there should be more orgasms, fake
and otherwise, on the HBD!  Sorry about the  l o n g  post.

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Date: 06 Dec 93 21:49:30 EST
From: Richard Nantel <72704.3003 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Yeast FAQ

I'm new to the net and HBD. I'd love to know where I can find a copy of the 
Yeast FAQ. If it is anywhere near as informative as the Hops FAQ I found 
Compuserve, it will be worth its bytes in gold.

Thanks

Richard Nantel
Montreal, Quebec
Canada

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1291, 12/07/93