HOMEBREW Digest #1293 Thu 09 December 1993

Digest #1292 Digest #1294

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  A newcomers introduction. Danish brewing ("HANSEN M" )
  Snakebite2 (Calum T. MacNeill)
  Re: Snakebite ("J.Waghorn")
  The Beer Hunter (Paul Beard)
  Different Beers -Same Flavor/ No Carbination (was Snakebite) (Don Oswald)
  recipe for Amstel light (taylor)
  HopTech Fruit Extracts (Matthew Evans)
  Re: Is Stoelting making a magic chiller? (Patrick Sobalvarro)
  Pale Ale (John_D._Sullivan.wbst311)
  Dream Tun (npyle)
  re: REAL ice beer (darrylri)
  How can I access the FAQ files in beer-l via listserv? (ESF01)
  Pitching Rates (John Eustace)
  Clone for Bahama's Kalik (LAEUGER)
  Re: Krush-Off Comments (STROUD)
  Correction (kopek.edward)
  EKU 28 (GNT_TOX_)
  Chiller model (Bill Szymczak)
  Blow-off vrs non-blow-off (Bill Szymczak)
  Snakebites and secondary fermentation question (Keith MacNeal  08-Dec-1993 1242)
  Is Tim McNerney an idiot? (Tim P McNerney)
  Trouble Carbonating Lager (WESTRA_MICHAEL/HPATC2_02)
  pasteur yeast: ferment temps? (The Rider) (Michael Fetzer)
  Filtering/ BarneyWine (COYOTE)
  Hop Teas and Dry Hopping ~# (Delano Dugarm 36478)
  Bulk Lab Equipment / Boston Area (Mark Garti  mrgarti at eng.xyplex.com)
  Ice Beer (ELQ1)
  Noche Buena - SF Bay Area (David Allison 225-5764)
  noche buena by any other name... (LLAPV)
  Names ("Peter Brauer 312/915-6157"                )

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 10:07:07 MET From: "HANSEN M" <0031 at et.aarhus.ih.dk> Subject: A newcomers introduction. Danish brewing I have been brewing beer for the last 6-7 years but I am new to HBD and I sure like what I see ! I am also one of the few Danish home brewers that brew the 'do it all yourself' beer. The normal procedure in this country is to buy a package that contains all the material you need. But this brew is based on dry yeast and malt-extract which both contribute to the reduction of the taste. I have read HBD #1281 - #1284, and i have got the feeling that most of you are from America, and that you do not brew your beer the same way that we do in Denmark. So first I am going to give you a description of the material and the procedures of the Danish way of doing these things. I apologise for my humble English. We are two students at The Department of Electronics at The Engineering College of Aarhus, in the middle of Denmark, that have build our own brewery in his cellar. In this cellar we brew the kind of beer that is very related to the beer from Pilsen (Czechoslovakia) and Bayern (Germany). The pilsner is ( as you might know ) most commonly a relative light beer, but is also brewed in more dark sorts, a little like the well-known porter. I guess you all know the Danish Carlsberg Pilsner, which is a very light pilsner. (too light for me that is). The ingredients we use is 4-5 different kinds of malt, hops, Bog myrtle ( Myrica ), sugar, salt and yeast. The malt is a substance like syrup with a very fine taste. The sorts that we can obtain are : Light Malt for the light flavoured beer. Dark Malt for the more dark but not necessarily strong beer. Gold Malt for the semidark and strong beer. This malt is boiled with hops in it. Porter Malt for the very dark and porter-like beer Barley syrup which i very similar to the light malt but with a little different flavour. Unfortunately a rare malt. These different types of malt is of course used in all kinds of compounds. They are all bought in 15 kg cans for about $20-$25. Bog myrtle gives a bitter taste a little like hops, but still different. Rarely used, or in very small amounts. The yeast is a liquid yeast for bottom fermentation (Saccharomyes Carlsbergensis) that we simply pick up at the nearest brewery according to an ancient Danish rule which says: 'Anyone are entitled to pick up free yeast for his own personal use at any brewery'. Use of this yeast makes it necessary to have plenty of cool storage room for both the yeasting and maturing of the beer, which both must take place in 5-7 Celsiusdeg. (40-45 F.). Our solution to this are two modified freezers (new thermostat), one 500 liters and one 300 liters. This gives us a total storing capacity of aprox. 200-260 liters in the form of 5 old fashioned 40 liters milk cans, and up to 3 20 liters beer kegs (The type that the commercial breweries uses). This capacity gives us, if fully utilized, aprox. 40 liters every 10th day. The procedure is this : The first thing to do, is to make 30-35 liters of boiling water. This is done in an old milkcan, enhanced with 2 electrical heaters. Meanwhile the malt, hops, sugar and other spices are weighed out. When the water boils, the spices are added and carefully stirred. Then, depending an the malt used, 1 - 1.5 hours must past with frequently stirring. Light malt must boil longer than darker sorts, to develop the fine taste it is known for. After the boiling, the wort must be cooled of. For this purpose we have purchased an old milk cooler which run on cold water only. This device can cool 40 liters of boiling water to aprox. 5 - 10 Celsiusdeg. in 15 minutes. Then the yeast ( which is reused several times ) is added ( 0.5 liter ) and the wort is aired up/ventilated ( I don't know the right expression ) by pouring it back and forth a couple of times. Finally the milkcan's opening is covered by a sterile bathing cap (the hospital kind), and placed in the freezer (fridge) for yeasting. Wait, wait, wait for at least 3 weeks. Then, after the yeasting the beer is gently transported to another milkcan for maturing ( to avoid the sediment), and stored at the same temperature of course. This milkcan is closed with a pressursave lid, and CO2 is added to about 1.5 atm (22 psi). This pressure is maintained throughout the next 3 weeks (at least). Mostly this is done by adding CO2 once every 2nd or 3rd day during the first 1 or 2 weeks. After this maturing the beer is drinkable, but before we drink serious quantities we remove the pressure from the can, and transport the beer gently to two beer kegs which we pressurize and store for 5 - 10 days so that the beer can absorb the right quantity of CO2. After this the beer is finally a fine, clear and delicate tasting draught beer. The serving is done from a small refrigerator with a CO2 bottle and a suitable placed tap. We also posses a transportable box with CO2 and a tap, for feasts and its like. This procedure is only the most commonly for unproblematic beer, and will of course be adjusted for beer with lack of behaviour. What you have just read is only a superficial description of the methods and materials we use. I will bee happy to go into details if anyone would be interested. Second, it seems to me that most of the stuff you guys write to HBD looks a little like a closed discussion. So it is very difficult for me to gain an insight into the methods you use. Therefore I would be very interested in some basic information about the way that you guys brew your beer, thank you. ( Some kind of dialouge could be very interesting) If any of you would want to reply, it might take a couple of days before I will be able to get back to you, simply because I am looking right into to heavy examinations. Do feel free to mail me directly. Merry Christmas, Morten Hansen Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 09:21:04 +0000 (GMT) From: ctmn at sabhal-mor-ostaig.ac.uk (Calum T. MacNeill) Subject: Snakebite2 After further investigation ie I spoke to an ex-barmaid! the situation regarding the illegality of snakebite in the U.K does cover the whole of the country and not just England & Wales as I suggested. So why can I get it in my local? Apparently it is O.K to sell it with a dash of blackcurrant which I would refer to as "snakebite black" but was put to rights on this matter as it is more commonly known as Diesel and taken alongside a bottle of Holsten Pils!!! Just had to clear up my previous errors. Calum MacNeill Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 09:51:21 +0000 (GMT) From: "J.Waghorn" <ts0jwa at orac.sunderland.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Snakebite Well I live in England, work behind a bar & as far as the licensing law stands, Snakebite is not illegal, it may be frowned upon, and a friend of mine did say he wasn't able to get it in Merseyside due to a local byelaw....... (Truth or otherwise of this claim unverified) And anyway if Snakebite was illegal, would it not also be illegal to sell someone a half pint of lager & a half pint of cider or any possible way for them to make a Snakebite, because by selling them I would be an accessory to the "crime" Not that any of this bothers me at all as I don't count lager as a drink & when I drink cider I drink cider - not polluted with any of this other BS, when I drink beer, I drink gallons (hic) - -- . . / `. .' \ .---. < > < > .---. | \ \ - ~ ~ - / / | ~-..-~ ~-..-~ \~~~\.' `./~~~/ . ''''. \__/ \__/ .' O \ / / \ \ (_____, `._.' | } \/~~~/ `----. / } | / \__/ `-. | / | / `. ,~~| ~-.__| /_ - ~ ^| /- _ `..-' f: f: | / | / ~-. `-. _||_||_ |_____| |_____| ~ - . _ _ _ _ _> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 07:53:00 -0500 From: paul.beard at gatekeeper.mis.tridom.com (Paul Beard) Subject: The Beer Hunter There was some talk on alt.beer or rec.craft.brewing about Micheal Jackson's series returning to PBS (KQED/SF). I hope everyone knows you can buy the series on 2 cassettes and watch whenever you like. A colleague and fellow brewer graciously loaned them to me; they are available from Discovery, but I dunno how much they are. Why wait for your local PBS affiliate to get hip? Paul Beard AT&T Tridom, 840 Franklin Court, Marietta, GA 30067 404 514-3798 * FAX: 404 429-5419 * tridom!paul.beard/beardp at tridom.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 08:45:52 EST From: oswald at columbia.sparta.com (Don Oswald) Subject: Different Beers -Same Flavor/ No Carbination (was Snakebite) ctmn at sabhal-mor-ostaig.ac.uk writes about problems with gettin a beer to carbinate. Potential causes: inperfect seal on the barrell dead yeast - (I did this once -left steralization solution in the bottle) No food for the yeast -- You post did not mention how much priming suger you used about a cup is usually enough for a 5 gallon batch And a Suggestion for the next batch: (assuming you did what I did with myfirst batchs of "instant homebrew- makes 5 gallons just add suger and water")Use the exact same kit and procedures, except substitute amber Dry Malt Extact for the corn suger. The resulting beer will have a less cidery taste, more body. ALLISON.DAVID at A1GW.GENE.COM writes > In short (hopefully), my last two brews came out with the >same flavor, but I used different ingredients. The recipies are both for rather mild beers that would show the effects of processing errors or contamination. Potential efffects and causes: Contaimiination: The taste could be the hallmark of a wiild yeast that has taken up residence at your address. If this is the case, either be very carefull with stearilization or breew styles which can live with the taste. Running Hot: Even a good yeast will produce off flavors if picthed to hot, or fremented at to hot a temperature. The lager yeast esp. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 08:58:00 EST From: taylor at e5sf.hweng.syr.ge.com (taylor) Subject: recipe for Amstel light Does anyone out there have an extract recipe for Amstel Light. This is the only beer my wife will drink for some reason. I'd like to see if I can make something close. I will also take ideas using extracts and all grain recipes if anyone has one. What hop to use?, DME?, grain? etc... thanks Todd.... Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1993 09:22:00 EST From: Matthew Evans <matt at cadif.cornell.edu> Subject: HopTech Fruit Extracts I just got the catalog today from a company called HopTech. Mostly they just sell hops, but they did have some concentrated fruit extracts. They are sold in four ounce bottles and contain enough "stuff" to make about 15 gallons of fruit beer. They don't have any sugars in them, so you add them to the beer right before bottling. Anyone ever heard of this stuff or tried it yet. It is a lot cheaper than the real fruit itself, so it would be a good cost savings, but the question is, will it be good to taste? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 10:02:27 -0500 From: pgs at thillana.lcs.mit.edu (Patrick Sobalvarro) Subject: Re: Is Stoelting making a magic chiller? Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 13:51:54 PST From: tpm at wdl.loral.com (Tim P McNerney) I got this flyer from Stoelting which makes the following claims for its wort chiller: Chills 5 gallons of wort from 210F to 56F in 15 minutes at .33 GPM. ... Am I missing something here? Here is the rest of the info: ... The wording is ambiguous, and I presume that what they meant was that the wort flows at .33 GPM. The coolant is another matter! -P. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 07:54:59 PST From: John_D._Sullivan.wbst311 at xerox.com Subject: Pale Ale Hi All, I'm an all-grainer who likes a BIG tasting pale ale, not necessarily in OG or alcohol level, but very malty and very hoppy. Of course the hoppy part is easy, and some yeasts have helped with the malty part. I use M&F pale 2-row and mash at around 155degF. My idea is to add 1/4 or 1/2 lb pale at mash out, to add flavor. What would be the pros and cons of this? Or is there something else I haven't considered? Thanks much, John Rochester, NY Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 8:57:52 MST From: npyle at n33.stortek.com Subject: Dream Tun I am a happy all-grain brewer, planning my 21st batch (of which about half have been all-grain) for the upcoming holidays. My grain-mill is a home-made roller mill which should suit my needs forever. My boiler is a very nice, propane fired (converted NG water heater element), 10 gallon cream can from an old dairy. I have a hop-back, and nice CF chiller to boot. I ferment happily in carboys (7g & 5g). The component I've left out is obviously the mash/lauter tun. It is a Rubbermaid 48 quart cooler with copper pipe manifold. It does what is intended for it to do, which is to serve well as an insulated single temperature infustion mash and lautering vessel. What it does not do, of course, is step mashes, which would be nice, nor does it offer any easy way to add heat if I miss my strike temperature for any reason. Also, it will eventually warp enough from the heat that I'll need to replace it (it is showing signs of this, after many batches). Kettle mash, you say? I don't want to lose so much heat during mashing that I have to attend the thing constantly; the best thing about mashing is that I can go do other things (such as go to work for a half day, as was mentioned here a few weeks ago). Also, I have had a lot of trouble with temperature overshoot when kettle mashing. I prefer an insulated tun for the non- attendence feature during a normal infusion mash. If I am going to do a step mash or something different, then I certainly wouldn't mind working it. So, my question is this: if you were able to design the ideal mash/lauter tun system, for homebrewing applications, how would you do it? I'd like to do up to 10 gallon batches, but more capacity than that is not necessary. Assume that cost is a factor (always minimize it), but that I have an unlimited resource in terms of welding, pipe bending, etc. (almost true). I have propane in my brewery/garage, 110V (but no 220V), and soon will have hot and cold running water. I'm looking for something I can use for a lifetime, that is versatile, and most of all: neat! Should I convert a SS half-barrel keg by insulating it and adding a propane burner? Steam jacket? Hot water jacket? RIMS? uP controlled (I think this is overkill, personally)? How about an insulated vessel with a steam bubbler? Or a removable radiator (reverse chiller)? One more thing, how about a sparge water vessel? I currently use my boiler, but I have to transfer the water to a bucket, so that I can free up the boiler for the first runnings. This is one reason I batch sparge most of the time. The idea of mixing the grain and strike water as they fall into the tun (obviating the need for "dough-in") also intrigues me. I ask this to generate some discussion and maybe something good will come out of it for many HBD tinkerers. I'd like to hear what works well for you, but also what you only dream of making (maybe I'll make it!). As always, we thank you for your support. Norm Return to table of contents
Date: Wed Dec 8 07:35:01 1993 From: darrylri at microsoft.com Subject: re: REAL ice beer KOPEK.EDWARD (ACTG Data Mgmt Ctr, FSTRF, Amherst, NY) writes: > For anyone who wants to taste a _real_ ice beer, try EKU Kulminator > Urtyp Hell 28 from Germany (That's the entire name of the beer, honest!). > It is concentrated by freezing as are the North American "ice" beers. EKU 28 is not, in fact, concentrated by freeze distillation. (See Michael Jackson's "New World Guide to Beer", p. 54.) It is brewed from a wort that does achieve at least 28 degrees Plato (about sg 1.112). The only true eisbock I'm aware of in Germany is made by the Kulmbacher Reichelbraeu brewery, a smaller neighbor of EKU's. Their Bayrische G'frorns (frozen Bavarian) beer has a calculated OG of 24 degrees Plato, and the beer is far more drinkable (if that is the right word) than EKU 28. The story is that a tank of beer was accidently left out in the freezing weather and that when opened, this nectar flowed out. The Niagara Brewery in Canada produces an eisbock with some regularity. It's an interesting beer, although it makes no attempt to scale the gravity or alcoholic heights, coming with a mere 8% alcohol by volume. It tends to have an estery background, which is probably emphasized by the concentrating process. Even so, it has a lager character to it and I don't think many judges would liken it to a barleywine. > Oh, and it is reputed to have the highest alcohol content of any commercial > beer. (Maybe, maybe not). I know it is around 12%, and it packs a wallop! No; EKU 28 has the highest OG of any regularly available beer. But Hurlimann's Samichlaus, brewed from a slightly lower OG, is a bit more fermentable and so has a higher alcoholic result (and a more drinkable product, IMHO). This, in spite of the boastful claims on the EKU 28 label ("Das starkste Bier der Welt"). --Darryl Richman Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 11:16:27 EST From: <ESF01%ALBNYDH2.bitnet at UACSC2.ALBANY.EDU> Subject: How can I access the FAQ files in beer-l via listserv? Hello Homebrew Aficionado's, My first brew is chugging away merrily - the CO2 vapors coming out of my blow off tube smell heavenly. I have read Papazian's, "The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing", from cover to cover and would like now to review the FAQ files for beer-l on listserv or anonomous ftp somewhere. I've sent INDEX LISTSERV to LISTSERV at UA1VM.BITNET to get a list of FILELIST but BEER-L doesn't seem to be on the master list. Can someone either e-mail me directly or I you feel the info would benefit all, email the list with information on how one can obtain the previous postings from BEER-L. TIA :*) [The * is my red nose from drinking too much of homebrew ... Ed F. ___________ * Edward S. Frommer ESF01 at albnydh2.bitnet * * NYS Health Dept. Bureau of Production Systems Maintenance * * Vital Records & Vital Statistics Networking Systems * * 733 Broadway Albany, NY 12237-0001 Phone: (518)474-5245 * Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 93 10:59:01 EST From: John Eustace <3JCE1 at QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA> Subject: Pitching Rates Hi all, I have a question I'd like to ask concerning pitch rates for lagers. I've recently been given the opportunity to help out my local brewpub. Seems they have been using dried yeasts for quite some time now, and the new brewmaster would like to switch over to liquid yeasts. He has asked me to help him in this endeavour. I have a fair bit of experience at culturing yeast for my own 5 gallon batches, but now we're talking about pitching to 180 gallons. Using the formula for lager pitching in the yeast faq, I have determined that I need to pitch .72 gallons of slurry. This figure seems extremely low to me. So I put it to you, what kind of a fermentation can I expect from such a pitching rate? I imagine it will be an extremely slow one. Any formulas for determining healthy pitching rates, or any other technical information you think might be of use would be appreciated. - ------------------------------------------ I have another, unrelated, request for information, this one on brewery geometry. Basically, I am interested in any information you might have on how kettle and fermenter geometry influence hop utilization and fermentation rates. TIA and Cheers JE Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 11:01:56 -0600 (CST) From: LAEUGER at smsd.jsc.nasa.gov Subject: Clone for Bahama's Kalik A friend of mine asked me if I could brew a beer that emulates a beer he had in the Bahamas this past summer. It is called Kalik (spelling questionable) and i` supposedly the number one beer in that country. Does anyone know of a recipe that I could use to try to copy this beer? Appreciate your suggestions. Michael Laeuger Return to table of contents
Date: 08 Dec 1993 11:55:31 -0500 (EST) From: STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com Subject: Re: Krush-Off Comments >From:arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) >Subject: KRUSH-OFF > >Clearly, a mill that is more than twice as large should demonstrate a >significantly higher throughput at a given rpm than what you have described. >This test is only valid if they are both run at exactly the same speed and no >mention of the RPM was made. > >It should further be noted that the MM as shipped is set up for hand cranking >and the grain guides provide a restricted flow to assure ease of cranking >with the very large rollers. To miximize throughput when motorized, the >grain guides can be trimmed to provide a larger hole that will feed the grain >as fast as the 10" rollers will take them. Jack, you have most likely already answered the question. The hopper hole opening into the MaltMill is only a fraction of the length of the rollers. In addition, there is a large mesh plastic screen that covers the opening (for safety reasons). I suspect that both of these factors work to limit the speed at which the malt kernels can reach the rollers, so I am not surprised that the MaltMill and GlattMill crush at about the same rate. It is interesting to note that the hopper holes of the two mills are about the same size. BTW, I am sure that you are right that a larger hopper hole would increase the throughput on a MaltMill, but we tested it as manufactured. I can handcrank/crush 8+ lbs of malt in ~2 min. with my unmodified MaltMill. The Glatt Mill is a touch slower, but similar. Does it really make any difference in the length of my brewday if I spend 2 vs 3 minutes crushing grain?? Not to me; either one is a vast improvement over my old Corona! Steve Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 12:20:40 -0500 From: kopek at karloff.fstrf.org (kopek.edward) Subject: Correction 08129312031600E 0016500000000 Date: 08 Dec 1993 12:03 EST From: KOPEK.EDWARD (ACTG Data Mgmt Ctr, FSTRF, Amherst, NY) To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com cc: KOPEK.EDWARD Subject: Correction Attach: I have been reminded by several HBD readers that EKU is _not_ an ice beer in the same sense as the ones from Bud, Molson, etc. The EKU is frozen to precipitate out protein, but the ice is not removed. Thus, it is not a true eisbock. It still tastes pretty darn strong, though. Sorry for the errant information! I guess I need to do more, ahem, research into this ice beer dilemma. I'll start with a Buffalo Blizzard Bock (Buffalo Brewing Company, Buffalo, N.Y.) I'm gonna have one straight, then I'm gonna freeze one and filter out the ice first. It may not be a real "eisbock" either, but it'll be fun to try! -Ed (Hit-an-iceberg(eisberg?)) Kopek . Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 12:23 EST From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU> Subject: EKU 28 In HBD #1292 Ed Kopek talked about EKU Kulminator Urtyp Hell 28. Well consulting with my family in Germany, I got the scoop on whether EKU 28 is really the strongest commercial beer around. The story in Bavaria is that the 28 in EKU 28 is the PROOF of the beer. You got it. 28 proof aka 14% alcohol. I have a bottle saved from when I last tried the stuff. If you read the label carefully, you'll notice that nowhere on the bottle is it referred to as beer. It is referred to as malt liquor. Correct me if I'm wrong(and I know you will), but isn't there a federal law that says beer can only be a maximum of 6% alcohol? Anything stronger than that has to be called a Malt Liquor. Oh well, that my $0.02... Andy Pastuszak Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 12:40:46 EST From: bszymcz at ulysses.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak) Subject: Chiller model Yesterday, Tim writes: >From: tpm at wdl.loral.com (Tim P McNerney) >Subject: Is Stoelting making a magic chiller? >I got this flyer from Stoelting which makes the following claims for its >wort chiller: >Chills 5 gallons of wort from 210F to 56F in 15 minutes at .33 GPM. >So basically, 5 gallons of water (.33 * 15) to chill 5 gallons of wort from >210F to 56F. It seems to me that if you were able to obtain perfect heat >transfer and the water you were using was 32F, the best you could hope to >get is 121F. >Am I missing something here? Here is the rest of the info: A few weeks ago someone reported that using an immersion chiller that he was able to reduce 5 gallons of boiling wort to 90F using only 8 gallons of Texas tap water. At first, I made an estimate like yours (assuming Texas tap water is 60F) and concluded that 118F was the best possible. Then I tried a simple model of an immersion chiller. Let Ti = the constant inlet tap water temperature Tk(t) = the time varying temperature of the wort in the kettle. (Here I'm assuming that the wort is being constantly stirred so that its temperature is uniform. To(t) = the time varying temperature at the outlet of the chiller. dw = a small amount of water passing through the coil. N = the amount of wort in the kettle dt = a small time increment R = dw/dt = the rate of flow through the chiller (coil). Furthermore, if the coil is sufficiently long or R is sufficiently small then we can assume that Tk(t) = To(t) = T(t), that is, the temperature at the outlet is the same as the temperature in the kettle. Then dw * Ti + N * T(t) = (N+dw) * T(t+dt) (1) which simply expresses the fact that dw gallons at Ti added to N gallons at T(t) will equilibriate to N+dw gallons at temperature T(t+dt). Dividing (1) by dt and rearranging terms yields dT R -- = - * (Ti - T) dt N which in the limit at dt -> 0 becomes a differential equation. The solution (assuming the initial temp T(0) = 212F) is T(t) = Ti + (212-Ti)*exp(-R*t/N) . The amount of time t required to reduce the temperature from 212 to T is N (212-Ti) t = - log|------| R ( T-Ti ) and the amount of water required is A=Rt. So if we had such an optimal immersion chiller and constantly stirred, and the tap water was Ti=40F and we wanted to chill N=5 gallons to T=56F we would need A = 5 log ((212-40)/(56-40)) = 11.87 gallons. I have not done a similar analysis for counterflow chillers, but it seems that either Stoetling was exagerating or counterflow chillers are more efficient (as far as water conservation is concerned) than immersion chillers. Note that if you simply mixed 11.87 gallons of 40F water with 5 gallons of 212F you would get 16.87 gallons at 90.98F, so immersion chilling is somewhat efficient. Bill Szymczak bszymcz at ulsses.nswc.navy.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 12:41:41 EST From: bszymcz at ulysses.nswc.navy.mil (Bill Szymczak) Subject: Blow-off vrs non-blow-off Every now and then people have been debating the use or not of using a blow-off, so I thought I would add a data point to this controversy. I brewed 6 1/2 gallons of IG 1.041 English Special Bitter style which was siphoned into a 7 gallon carboy and pitched about 3/4 quarts of yeast starter. After about 3-4 hours I reracked the wort, filling one 5 gallon carboy to about 3 inches from the brim, and the other with the remainder. Both batches began fermenting after about 10 hours and the filled carboy began blowing-off after about 12 hours. Originally, I had planned to bottle both batches after 7-10 days in primary, but after 10 days the bloww-off batch was still bubbling every 13 seconds, while the non-blow-off batch seemed finished. So, after 11 days I reracked both batches and was shocked to find the gravity of the blow-off batch to be 1.020, while the non-blow-off batch was down to 1.011. The non-blow-off batch was bottled the next day, while I let the blow-off batch sit in secondary for another 10 days, at which time it was bottled with an FG=1.013. After waiting about 3 weeks I was ready to compare the batches. (I conjecture that the blow-off batch was filled too high and a lot of the healthy yeast got blown out, thereby slowing the fermentation.) I found both batches to be similar - IMHO a good example of the English bitter style, fruity, malty, full to medium bodied with a nice Kent Golding hop aroma and flavor. However, although I am a BJCP judge, I lost my confidence in distinguishing taste subtleties after failing a self inflicted taste test during a tour of the Anheiser-Busch brewery in Williamsburg VA about a month ago. I could not distinguish between bud, bud-dry, bud-lite and Michelob. Well, maybe bud and Michelob has slightly more lingering aftertastes. (Remember the Simpson's episode where Duff, Duff-dry, and Duff-lite were being filled by the same pipe.) So, I brought samples to the BURP homebrew club meeting for a more unbiased comparison. I did tell them that one was blow-off and one was not, but I didn't identify which was which. Some of the members correctly identified the blow-off batch saying they thought it was slightly smoother, (one correctly identified the blow-off batch but said she liked the non-blow-off batch better). Some incorrectly identified the two batches and some "punted" and said no difference. All agreed that if there was a difference it was minor. Therefore, despite the wide variations in fermentation times, both batches came out nearly identical with the blow-off having little or no effect. Of course, this is just one data point and your mileage may vary. Bill Szymczak Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 12:48:34 EST From: Keith MacNeal 08-Dec-1993 1242 <macneal at pate.enet.dec.com> Subject: Snakebites and secondary fermentation question In HOMEBREW Digest #1292 ctmn at sabhal-mor-ostaig.ac.uk (Calum T. MacNeill) says: >In fact it is quite common around here to order >a "snakebite black" which is the half lager, half cider mix but >with a dash of blackcurrant. Sounds like the "Purple Nasty" I was introduced to at a Rugby Club in the UK. >On a different note I wonder if anyone could help me with the >problem I have with my present batch of 'instant' homebrew. >It's one of these buy your tin of wort with everything included >except water and sugar. The problem is that primary fermentation >went like a dream, but now that i've transfered it to my pressure >barrel for secondary fermentation nothing's happening, ie no pressure >build up what so ever. I've tried adding extra yeast but to no >avail. Please help ASAP as this is supposed to be the main attraction >of a Christmas Eve party. HELP!!!!!!!!! Sounds to me like you moved it to the secondary a bit too late if you were looking for it to carbonate itself in the secondary. The beer may have completely fermented out in primary. Trying boiling up a little bit of corn sugar (I'm not sure of the proper amount since I don't keg, but I think it is on the order of 1/3 to 1/2 cup) in some water and adding it to the secondary. Keith MacNeal Digital Equipment Corp. Hudson, MA Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 10:39:49 -0800 From: tpm at wdl.loral.com (Tim P McNerney) Subject: Is Tim McNerney an idiot? Why yes, he is. Thanks for everyone who pointed out the bloody obvious. The .33 GPM is for the wort (Gee, Tim, why does the amount of water exactly equal the amount of wort when you make your calculation? Must be one of those strange coincidences, Tim, and not something like an obvious flaw in your logic yelling out at you.) A couple of people have asked about information on the Stoelting equipment, so I guess my post was not completely in vain (though it did my vanity no good). Stoelting, Inc. 502 HWY 67 Kiel, WI 53042 (800) 336-BREW Their line of products looks VERY nice. The stats on the wort chiller I mentioned yesterday should give some idea on some of the stuff they sell. The only problem is that their stuff is awfully pricey, but if you want to go first class, this is the way to go. The aforementioned wort chiller runs for $314. They also have kettles from 7-20 gallons with a bottom drain valve. Their stuff really looks like the "equipment the pros use" only shrunk down to homebrew sizes (if only they left their shrinking system running for a little longer on their prices). Sorry for wasting space with a stupid question (if you believe their are no stupid questions, go reread mine) and I hope most everyone took time to laugh at me via private email (please feel free to send me mail telling me how clueless I am, even if you didn't read the original article and don't know what I am talking about). Thanks. - --Tim Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 14:22:00 -0500 From: WESTRA_MICHAEL/HPATC2_02 at i3125ent.atl.hp.com Subject: Trouble Carbonating Lager Hello all, I am having trouble getting my first 'custom' lager to carbonate in the bottles. I have read a little bit about adding yeast right to the bottles and re-capping... but would like a little more help before I take a chance with 2+ cases of (so far) good beer. Recipe Yeast Labs L35 California Lager Yeast for 5 3.5 lbs GlenBrew Hopped Pilsener Malt Extract Gallons: 2.5 lbs light dried malt extract 1 lb American Caramel malt (10^o) 1 oz. Tettnanger (15 min.) + 1 oz. Saaz (3 min.) Pitched at 73^o, 5 days primary (plastic) at 55^o, 23 days secondary (glass) started at 55^o and gradually moved down to 45^o. Total=4 weeks. O.G. = 1.050 / F.G. = 1.020 (F.G. after 5 days was also 1.020) The beer has been in bottles now for three weeks. There is very little carbonation. I have stored some bottles at 45^o, some at 55^o and even a couple at 75^o and no luck. The beer tastes good - sweeter/maltier than a pilsener (the Calif. Lager Yeast is supposed to do that), noticeable hop flavor/aroma and no off-flavors, but no carbonation. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. (I apologize if this topic has been covered on the digest in the past... unfortunately I don't have the opportunity to read 'em all). Cheers, Mike Westra Please reply to: mwestra at stpaul.msr.hp.com -or- to the Digest Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 11:43:21 -0800 From: mfetzer at UCSD.EDU (The Rider) (Michael Fetzer) Subject: pasteur yeast: ferment temps? I'm getting a little pissed at my doublebock, dropped from 70 to 26 like a stone and then just sat there for the last week or so. All the yeast dropped out, fermentation stopped. I just pitched some pasteur champagne yeast, because it will not change the flavor profile, but should ferment this stuff lower. Now it occurs to me: what are ideal ferment temps for pasteur champagne yeast? Mike - -- Michael Fetzer pgp 2.2 key available on request Internet: mfetzer at ucsd.edu uucp: ...!ucsd!mfetzer Bitnet: FETZERM at SDSC HEPnet/SPAN: SDSC::FETZERM or 27.1::FETZERM Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1993 12:48:12 -0600 (MDT) From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu> Subject: Filtering/ BarneyWine Hullo Brewmeisters one and all. Just thought I'd chime in...as always... RE: Filtering Discussion: I had this debate last night with a couple fellow brewers. I personally think I'd have something to gain by filtering. I could probably get by with finings and do just as well. I have several times come up with a keg of beer with sediments in the bottom that would easily be filtered out. Otherwise every time the keg is moved it's stirred up again. Advantages: remove dry hop material/ spices/ clumps in general. Leave most of the yeast behind. Clarify a beer instantly so it can be carbonated by shaking w/o needing to settle afterwards to clear. Then it can be moved w/o clouding. Jim sez he thinks a 5 micron filter is going to remove cells. Most bacteria are on the order of 1 micron. yeast fall more in the 3 micron range. Cells can aggregate and "act" bigger. But I would contend that a 5 micron filter is definitely not going to "sterilize" a beer. And from my understanding (NOT experience) it will not REMOVE the body of a beer. It may well "thin" things a bit. At 3 microns there is more cell removal, but still not sterilization. I don't have a problem with lowering the cell count in a keg. I force pressurize, so I don't "need" them there, but I like my B-vitamins, so I don't plan to get rid of them ALL. *** - ------------------------------------------------------ Barney's Blebbing BarleyWhine: (planofaction) 10# 6 Row Pale Malt 10# 2 Row Pale malt 4# 2 row vienna 2# aromatic munich-belgian 2# Biscuit-" 1# Crystal- 60L 1# Crystal- 120L 1/2 cup roast Mash. Pull first 6.5 gallons of sparge. Begin boil. add: 6# Williams english dark extract 2# Brown sugar Boil Hops: 1 oz Chinook (13a), 1.5 oz Centennial (10a) 1/2 Boil: 1 oz Cascade (7.3a), 0.5 oz N. Brewer (7.6a)='93! Finish: 1 oz Homegrown Cascade- alpha unknown! :) but stinky! Abbey Ale yeast culture. Warm initial ferment. (65-70). Then cooler into secondary...maybe even down to the 50 deg basement! Bottle with 1 cup molasses. Age for a LONG time. :) - ----------------------------------------------------------- I'll draw the 2nd runnings of the sparge and make a 2-penny-ish ale. Burton ale at that. It may end up getting spiced, or fruited. Any input? If I get good extraction this should be OVERKILL. :) I wonder if I'll have to pitch champ. later to deal with all the fermentables. Hope it don't stall! Some know what a bother that can be! (so how's it doing now norm?) RE: The name. My girlfriend and I purchased a purple lava lamp, which she adores. Endless hours of fascination. I figured that after drinkin this concoction- after it's PROPERLY AGED>>>> one will probably end up feeling like that flowing purple goo in the lamp. A kinda warm feeling all over! As for the name of the lava lamp itself- you can figure that out! Just felt like sharing. I'm psyched. the yeast is pooched, and dropping into a starter today. Just got the scottish ale yeast too, can't wait to use that! Thur night, or friday day. My house will be warm! Brew on ya'll John (The Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P at cc.usu.edu Return to table of contents
Date: 08 Dec 1993 20:05:00 -0500 (EST) From: Delano Dugarm 36478 <ADUGARM at worldbank.org> Subject: Hop Teas and Dry Hopping ~# I am brewing a hoppy pale ale, something like Sierra Nevada's Celebration ale. I started with a 1065 O.G. wort, and hopped as follows: 1 oz Centennial (9.6%) 60 min. 1 oz Mt. Hood (?%) 60 min. 1 oz Cascades (5.4%) 10 min. I fermented with WYeast American Ale, of course, keeping the temperature mostly below 65. The question I have is how to finish it. The last time I made this I dry hopped with an ounce of Cascades for a week before bottling, and it turned out quite well. My only complaint was that it didn't have the _depth_ of hop taste that Celebration has. I'm leaning towards dry hopping again, but noted a suggestion that you steep hops in a hot water and add this tea at bottling time for greater flavor and aroma. Any suggestions on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Delano DuGarm adugarm at worldbank.org Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 15:33:44 EST From: mrg at mrg.xyplex.com (Mark Garti mrgarti at eng.xyplex.com) Subject: Bulk Lab Equipment / Boston Area I am planning on buying some pipettes and test tubes from Whatman LabSales. I'm looking for some other Boston brewers who might be interested in splitting the ridiculous quantity with me. 1 box test tubes = 1000 tubes. 1 box pippetts = 6 pippettes. Mark Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 13:26:28 PST From: ELQ1%Maint%HBPP at cts27.comp.pge.com Subject: Ice Beer Just a quick observation and trying to avoid flames, this article on "Ice Beers" was in last nights paper, it is on the Labatts -vs- any other commerical brewer who uses "Ice" method. >"Ice Beer is brewed at temperatures low enough to allow ice crystals > to form. It is described as rich tasting but continuing the move away > from the heavy beers" So, it says right there in print that it is "Rich Tasting". if it wasn't in print, I for one would not belive it. I guess my fellow HBD'ers just don't know taste when it hits them. I also question what "they" refer to as heavy beer? Bud? Heavy beer is not bought, its homebrewed! Please try this at home, remember, your not professionals, just Homebrewers! ELQ1 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1993 13:39:00 -0800 (PST) From: David Allison 225-5764 <ALLISON.DAVID at A1GW.GENE.COM> Subject: Noche Buena - SF Bay Area SF Bay Area Beerheads - Last night I saw cases of Noche Buena at the Price Club (Price Costco => stupid name change) in Redwood City for about $16/case. I'm looking for just a six-pack in case anyone comes across one. - David (allison2 at gene.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Wednesday, 8 December 93 16:40:22 CST From: LLAPV at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu Subject: noche buena by any other name... Howdy, In HBD 1292, Chris Amley brings up the question of using the same beer name for different beers. His main concern is that since Noche Buena is brewed with a different recipe than in the past, it should have a different name. The fact is, this is an extremely common practice. Sam Adams claims to vary their Winter Lager every year, and Anchor actually does vary it's Our Special Ale. Add on that a brewery is going to adjust it's recipes every once in awhile, especially new ones. Celis Pale Bock is definitely not the same beer that they first marketed in March of '92; in fact, it's the 4th version. I'm not saying it's good or bad, it just is. Happy brewin', Alan, Austin Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 93 16:57 CST From: "Peter Brauer 312/915-6157" <$W$PR42%LUCCPUA.BITNET at UICVM.UIC.EDU> Subject: Names I have often wondered, is there any sort of central list of "namebrands" for homebrews? I have a couple of friends that all homebrew and we all have names for our beers, I wondered if anyone keeps a master-list. Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1293, 12/09/93