FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Reply to 12/8/aerlew at drc.usbm.gov (Patrick Seymour)
  Brew suplies around Chambersburg, PA ("Blahnik, Vance T")
  what makes dark extract dark? (Peter Maxwell)
  Kudos and carbonation (Richard Nantel)
  Re: AOL: Censorship ("J. Andrew Patrick")
  re: EKU-28 (The Rider) (Michael Fetzer)
  HBD Reader (Phil Brushaber)
  . ("Leslie G. Hunter"                  )
  Re: Murphy's Irish Stout. ("THE FOURWHEELIN' 'TALIAN WANNABE JOKEMEISTER.")
  Dream Tun (npyle)
  Northern Lagering Methods (G1400067)
  Looking for Commonwealth Brewery's Porter (Dave)
  Starve a lawyer - boycott Sam Adams beer (long) (Chuck Cox)
  misc. answers (Ulick Stafford)
  Non-alcoholic beer (Bob)
  FTP-ing from sierra.stanford.edu (Brett Charbeneau)
  neon beer signs (Jim Pierson)
  Aluminum for boil only OK? (Jim Posey)
  Brewpots: kegs or REAL stock pots? (Brett Charbeneau)
  Happy Customer (Jack Schmidling)
  HopTech Fruit Extracts (brewerbob)
  Beer Archaeologists (Andy Kurtz)
  EKU (Marc de Jonge)
  Just The Yeast, Man. (Phil Brushaber)
  Dealing With Plastic Extract Bags (lanbrew)
  Wanted: Canadian Brewers (Carlo Fusco)
  lagering... (abaucom)
  A Dock Street copy recipe? ("David M. Fresco")


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Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 16:24:00 PST
From: Patrick Seymour <seymour at ucs.ubc.ca>
Subject: Reply to 12/8/aerlew at drc.usbm.gov


From: Earle M. Williams <earlew at drc.usbm.gov>
Subject: Head Retention, Beer Labels, and less...

I cracked the top on a bottle of Nut Brown Ale last night, aged two weeks,
and i noticed that while the carbonation was good, there was very little
head.  I tried pouring the beer from about 4 inches (10 cm) and it foamed
up nicely, but within about 10 seconds it had settled to a slim memory
of a thick foamy head.  I hadn't really tried for a thick head in this
beer, but it got me to thinking about past brews that had similar
characteristics.  Is there something I can add or delete to my brews that
would encourage more head?  I would appreciate some comments, with or 
without
puns. :>

Ahem, regarding your "lack of head" concern...
I have been adding an additional 150-200grams of wheat in the grain bag - 
and recent batches have produced great head.


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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 15:10:00 est
From: "Blahnik, Vance T" <blahnv at uf9455p01.minneapolismn.NCR.COM>
Subject: Brew suplies around Chambersburg, PA


My brother is looking for suppy sorces near Chambersber, PA.   Any help is 
gratly appreaciated

Please reply to vance.blahnik at minneapolismn.ncr.com.

Thanks

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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 17:15:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Peter Maxwell <peterm at aoraki.dtc.hp.com>
Subject: what makes dark extract dark?

Many recipes based on extracts stipulate dark extract (or amber, if it comes
to that).  Full-grain recipes, on the other hand, always use basic malted
barley and add extra things to get dark beers.  So I have two questions:

1.  What is it in a dark or amber extract that differentiates it from a
    light extract?

2.  If I start off with light extract can I simply add more of
    chocolate/black patent, in addition to what might be specified in a
    recipe calling for dark extract, to achieve the same effect?

                        Peter

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Date: 10 Dec 93 22:43:42 EST
From: Richard Nantel <72704.3003 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Kudos and carbonation

Kudos to all members of HBD. After three weeks on the net, I'm amazed by 
the quality of this digest. It has become my primary source of info on 
homebrewing.

One question. I'm having carbonation problems. The traditional 3/4 cup 
priming sugar per 5 gallons (for most beer styles) produces different 
amounts of carbonation in different batches of beer. My latest is an 
all-grain pale ale (a variation of Papazian's Amazeing Pale Ale) which, 
although delicious, is slightly overcarbonated for the style. Also, this 
batch reached carbonation in a mere 7 days. 

Other recipes (using the same type yeast) produce beer with about the same 
final SG and level of alcohol and will, although primed with the same 3/4 
cup per 5 gal ratio of priming sugar, take much longer to carbonate. In 
fact, some may never reach a high enough level of carbonation. Others have 
become greatly overcarbonated after 3 months in the bottle. The temperature 
here is a steady 73%. What's up? (I'm not interested in kegging.)

Richard Nantel
Montreal, Quebec
Canada 

PS. Correction to my posting in HBD 1294. Molson produces XXX at 7.3% 
alcohol. Not Labatt. Also, due to public pressure, they've raised the price 
of this high-potency brew to discourage the cheap-fast-drunk crowd. 

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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 00:09:58 -40975532 (CST)
From: "J. Andrew Patrick" <andnator at genesis.Mcs.Com>
Subject: Re: AOL: Censorship

Mr. Craig Goldwyn,

I dont think the readership of HBD is going to be very sympathetic to you
telling them that they are not a reputable source of information about
brewing.  Which is what you just did, considering that much of the info
about Jim Koch and the Boston Brewing Co that you considered "libellous"
and deleted from the AOL Beer Forum was originally posted on the HBD!!

+--------------+---------------------------------+--------------+
|Sysop         |         Andrew Patrick          |       Founder|
|Home Brew Univ| AHA/HWBTA Recognized Beer Judge |Home Brew Univ|
|Midwest BBS   |  SW Brewing News Correspondent  | Southwest BBS|
|(708)705-7263 |Internet:andnator at genesis.mcs.com| (713)923-6418|
+--------------+---------------------------------+--------------+





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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 22:51:29 -0800
From: mfetzer at UCSD.EDU (The Rider) (Michael Fetzer)
Subject: re: EKU-28

People people people!!!

Eku 28: Erste Kulmbacher Unionsbrauerei, 28 degrees plato original gravity.

Not an icebock, at least they say it is not, and it is not billed as such.

Very strong, with a vinous characteristic that's present in some barley
wines, but not to such a degree.

Not a beer to have with your burger at lunch... it's a 'desert beer', just
like there are desert wines. Have it with some icecream?

Everything has a place and a time, and at the right time and in the right
place EKU 28 is the perfect beer. If we're going to throw out EKU 28 as
vile, we have to get rid of a whole slew of beverages that are not intended
for mass consumption.

Beer, it's not just for breakfast any more! EKU 28, it's just not for breakfast.

:*)

Mike


- --
Michael Fetzer                         pgp 2.2 key available on request
Internet:      mfetzer at ucsd.edu        uucp:    ...!ucsd!mfetzer
Bitnet:        FETZERM at SDSC
HEPnet/SPAN:   SDSC::FETZERM           or       27.1::FETZERM



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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 22:00:16 CST
From: philb at pro-storm.metronet.com (Phil Brushaber)
Subject: HBD Reader

Like many of you, I get HBD sent to me in one huge file. Even
when I used to get it through a PCBoard BBS, It would get
broken down into three large files.

I'd like it to be easier to respond to individual notes
within a given day's HBD. Anyone have any experience with
a good reader for HBD? Since this is modestly on subject,
private mail is welcome. TIA Phil

- -----
Internet: philb at pro-storm.metronet.com
    UUCP: metronet.com!pro-storm!philb
  Bitnet: philb%pro-storm.metronet.com at nosc.mil


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Date:    Sat, 11 Dec 93 09:11 CST
From: "Leslie G. Hunter" <KFLGH00%TAIMVS1.BITNET at TAIVM1.TAIU.EDU>
Subject: .

set Leslie Hunter nomail

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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 11:51:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "THE FOURWHEELIN' 'TALIAN WANNABE JOKEMEISTER." <AD75173%LTUVAX.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re: Murphy's Irish Stout.


I, too just purchased a can of this beer.  I was intrigued by the "pressure
system".  I saw the posting about it on the last HBD, and decided to take a
closer look.  Sure enough, I saw the plastic insert.  I opened the can from
the bottom with the tap of a pointed object (learned from my father to save
cans for a beer can collection) and I can see some plastic apparatus near
the bottom.      That's all I know..

Might as well get insight on something I've been trying:

I got into winemaking before homebrewing, but it takes too long to make wine,
so I'm into making beer now, too.  Anyway, a recipe for sparkling wine says
to prime it with corn sugar when it's done, and put it in 2-liter plastic
bottles.  When the yeast settles out, one can siphon the wine off it and into
champagne bottles.  But this would lose carbonation, right?  Well, the recipe
says to chill the wine till ice starts to form.  In school I learned that cold
liquids effervesce less, so this makes sense.   QUESTION:  has anyone tried
this with beer?  The first time I tried it, I didn't chill it enough, and lost
quite a bit of carbonation.

Aaron Dionne
Lawrence Technological University
Southfield, Michigan

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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 13:49:21 MST
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Dream Tun

My dream tun is beginning to take shape, with suggestions from various HBDers.

I'm currently thinking of a SS half-barrel keg, insulated somehow (cedar
boards?).  I would install a pipe fitting near the bottom with a manifold in
the tun.  The manifold will probably be a set of pipes with holes or slots in
them, facing down.  It will be a dual purpose manifold: 1) steam injection,
and 2) liquor draining.  The holes nearest the fitting will be smaller than
the ones farther away; an attempt to create an even flow of steam from all
holes (this could be more work than its worth, requiring lots of trial and
error).  The steam injection will be the only method for heating the tun,
there will be no direct fire.  This should serve quite well as a mash/lauter
tun for simple infusion and step-mashes.  I expect to have to stir the mash
during temperature increases, but not during rests as it will be insulated.

The other dual purpose vessel I would need is a hot liquor / steam generator
tank.  This would be direct propane fired.  It could be used to heat the
strike water at the start of the mash.  Then the temperature would be turned
up for boiling and the steam piped over to the mash tun for step mashes.  It
would need to be able to be closed tightly and would need an outlet at the
top for steam and another at the bottom for draining the hot water.  I don't
expect much pressure to build up, as the only back pressure would be the
weight of the mash, but I would install a pressure relief valve in case of
operator error.  I would need a valve between the steam outlet and the
manifold because during draining, it would draw air in as the wort passed by
the "T".  It would be nice if this thing was insulated as well for efficiency.
I think this could be a quarter barrel keg, or a soda keg with the rubber
removed.

Any ideas on where to purchase these kegs?  Am I loony?  I could do without
all the standard warnings about steam, pressure, etc.  I know how dangerous
it is.  I wouldn't build this thing if I thought it couldn't be done safely.
I would appreciate any comments on the ease / difficulty I will have in doing
something like this.  BTW, this will all be gravity fed: hot liquor tank,
mash/lauter tun, boiler, fermenter.  One big drawback is that the hot liquor
tank will be a good 7 or 8 feet high (to the top of it).  The other option is
a pump which will push hot water up a few feet (the steam will take care of
itself).  Comments?

Cheers,
Norm

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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 16:43:09 -0500 (EST)
From: G1400067 at nickel.laurentian.ca
Subject: Northern Lagering Methods

Hello,

     I have a friend who has a cottage on the French River in Northern 
Ontario. He has been talking about brewing a lager for a long time now, but 
he does not have access to a fridge to accomodate the required lagering 
temperatures. Recently, he came up with a pretty unique idea for lagering, 
without the use of a fridge, but I'm not sure that it's going to work, so I 
need some advice. He is going to do a full mash and rack of the cold break 
into a glass carboy. The carboy is going to be sealed up in plastic and 
placed carefully into the river just before ice-over. The theory here is that 
once the river freezes, the water temperature below the ice will be at 4 deg. 
C. This sounds pretty good for cold fermentation. He intends to leave the 
carboy in the river until ice-out in the spring. He also seems pretty 
confident that the carboy will not break at any time during this process. 
There is little to no current which runs at his "brewing" location. I was 
skeptical to say the least, but for no good reason that I could think of. 
What am I missing?

Greg Pyle
g1400067 at nickel.laurentian.ca

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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 93 17:21:12 EST
From: CARBACIO at ROO.DNET.ICD.Teradyne.COM (Dave)
Subject: Looking for Commonwealth Brewery's Porter

ISO a great Porter recipe! I'd like to know if anyone can help me duplicate 
a Porter I experienced at the Commonwealth Brewery, in Boston. I attended a 
banquet there about three years ago and had this black beauty served. This 
was before I was into brewing my own, but recall it being light bodied, medium 
hopped, and well balanced. 
If anyone has this recipe I'd appriciate a copy.
Happy brewing!


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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 93 16:11:06 EST
From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox)
Subject: Starve a lawyer - boycott Sam Adams beer (long)

Since there is renewed interest in Jim Koch's legal shenanigans, I
though some of our newer subscribers might be interested in reading
about my encounter with Koch's rabid lawyers. 

Last year I was subpoenaed in relation to his lawsuit against the Boston
Beer Works.  They claimed it was because I had offered to testify as an
expert on behalf of the BBW (I wrote a letter to the BBW attorney
stating my opinion but it was never used).  However it became clear that
they were upset about some unflattering (but factual) postings I had
made about Koch to the net, most likely the HBD.

They subpoenaed me and all of my personal correspondence and written
materials related to the litigants in Koch's various lawsuits.  As it
turns out, the subpoena was quietly dropped when I told their lawyers
that while I would challenge the disclosure of personal correspondence,
as a master beer judge and brewing instructor I would be glad to be
deposed as to the facts of any of my public statements about any of the
litigants. 

Koch's habit of taking legal action against his critics is generally a
successful strategy because most folks are too spineless to stand up to
him.  This time it backfired because not only did I fight, I exposed his
tactics to thousands on the net and challenged him to let me testify. 

For the record, here are some of the facts that Koch doesn't like folks
to know:

  Sam Adams Boston Lager was designed by brewing consultant Joseph Owades.
  Joe even wrote a paper about it. 
  
  Koch is not the father of the microbrewery revolution.  He is a contract
  brewer who got started years after the revolution had begun.  Until he
  opened a small pilot brewery in Boston a few years ago, all of his beer
  was brewed under contract.  Even today the vast majority of his product
  is contract brewed at distant regional breweries.
  
  His antics caused the GABF to eliminate the popularity poll.  Subsequent
  misbehaviour caused him to be kicked out of the festival.  Koch only got
  back in by threatening to sue.  In various ads he has misrepresented his
  GABF awards. 
  
  He is being sued by New York state for fraudulent advertising.
  
  Here is a list of organizations that he has sued or threatened to sue (there
  may be more):
  
  Boston Beer Works
  Commonwealth Brewing Company
  Boston Brewers Festival
  Great American Beer Festival

By the way, I am told that he has lost his latest appeal in his lawsuit
against the BBW.  The only remaining appeal would be to the supreme
court who has never heard a trademark infringement case. 

In my opinion, his lawsuits are frivolous.  As numerous judges have made
perfectly clear, he does not and cannot own the word "Boston".  His
continued litigation proves that he is abusing the legal system in order
to intimidate his competition and critics. 

In my opinion, Koch is behaving in an unacceptable manner.  I continue
to encourage beer lovers to avoid Sam Adams products because the profits
are used to the detriment of the brewing renaissance.  As I like to say,
"Starve a lawyer - boycott Sam Adams beer". 

Here is a copy of the message I posted at the time:

> From hbd Tue Dec 15 06:12:45 1992
> Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 15:25:13 EST
> From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox)
> Subject: Subpoena
> 
> Well, I was served an interesting document the other day...
> 
> ========================================================================
> 
>                  United States District Court
>                    DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS
> 
> BOSTON BEER COMPANY LIMITED PARTNERSHIP,
> d/b/a THE BOSTON BEER COMPANY
>              V.
> SLESAR BROS. BREWING COMPANY, INC.
> d/b/a BOSTON BEER WORKS
> 
> SUBPOENA IN A CIVIL CASE
> CASE NUMBER: 92-10865-K
> 
> TO: Charles Cox
>     Synchrosystems
>     44 Western Ave   (wrong address!!)
>     Cambridge, MA  02139
> 
> YOU ARE COMMANDED to appear ...
> at the taking of a deposition in the above case.
> 
> YOU ARE COMMANDED to produce and permit inspection
> of the following documents ...
> 
> Any written correspndence or other documents in your possession which
> refer, relate or allude to Boston Beer Company, Boston Beer Works, or
> Commonwealth Brewing Company and/or any persons connected with Boston
> Beer Company, Boston Beer Works or Commonwealth Brewing Company. 
> 
> (signed) Richard A. Savrann, Esq.
> 
> ========================================================================
> 
> As some of you may recall, I wrote a letter to the BBW attorneys this
> summer expressing my opinion about this trademark infringement nonsense. 
> While the letter was never used, the BBC attorneys found out about it by
> reading my postings to the net, and now they want to see it.
> 
> While issuing the above subpoena is perfectly legal, I think it is also
> indicative of how absurdly litigious Koch & Co have become. 
> 
> FYI: The above case is an appeal to the original trademark infringement
> case which BBC lost.  They are also suing the CBC for using the word
> 'Boston' on their labels. 
> 
> Here is a copy of the letter that has them so worried...
> 
> ========================================================================
> 
>                                                            5 June 1992
> 
>           To whom it may concern,
> 
>                In my opinion, consumers will not be confused by any
>           similarity between "Boston Beer Works" and "Boston Beer
>           Company".  "Boston Beer Company" is not widely known by
>           consumers, since most identify their products as "Samuel
>           Adams".  In addition, "Boston Beer" is a generic phrase and
>           is part of the name of a variety of businesses,
>           organizations and events in the Boston area.
> 
>           Sincerely,
> 
>           Charles Cox
> 
>           BJCP Master Beer Judge
> 
>           Member - Boston Beer Society
> 
> ========================================================================
>

- -- 
Chuck "Boston Beer" Cox   <chuck at synchro.com>
SynchroSystems / Riverside Garage & Brewery - Cambridge, Mass.

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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 93 17:35:08 EST
From: ulick at michaelangelo.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: misc. answers

Brett Charbeneau wonders how to log into sierra.stanford.edu.  When
asked for a user name respond ftp, and when it asks you for a password as
your complete email address respond r at  .  The  at  automatically appends
your site address.  If you are up to no good respond with the address of
someone you don't like :-)

Dennis Lewis has loitering problems.  Perhaps a procedural change would help.
Try laeutering very slowly especially at the start.  This allows the bed to 
settle nicely and filter better and not compact.  I find that the most
effective thing that I did to speed up my sparges was to slow them down!

Unfortunately it reads as if Matthew Bohne has a nasty contamination problem.
Ring around the neck and gushing has got to be a nice ... em .. ococcus
infection or something.

Someone (oops can't read my own writing) asks about Murphy cans.  If you  
cut open the can you will find that it contains a cylinder with a small
hole.  If you try popping open the cylinder it will go pop and part will
go flying accross the room.  Unless you want your next phone call to be 
to an eye specialist or ambulance chasing attorney wear a pair of safety
goggles while doing this.  The container cotains nirogen under pressure
that leaks out through the hole when the can is opened and stirs up the
froth nicely.  This device is patented by an English firm, I think, and is
a cumbersome way of countering Guinness' more elegant device without
a patent infringement.

I loved Mark Bunster's AB busting story.  When I went to the park, I didn't
even know that there was a brewery there.  And I like Kulminator.  Who
was it told the great story a while back about being at a restaurant with
a large group from work?  When he saw that they had good old EKU 28 on
the menu he ordered a bottle.  The rest of the group knowing him to be a beer
connoisseur followed suit.  I believe the repsonse was what one would
expect!!
__________________________________________________________________________
 'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ...  | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.  
    Pabst Blue Ribbon!'               | Notre Dame IN 46556
                                      |    ulick at darwin.cc.nd.edu   


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Date:         Sat, 11 Dec 93 13:57:33 PST
From: Bob <TATTERSH at WSUVM1.CSC.WSU.EDU>
Subject:      Non-alcoholic beer

In response to the December 9, 1993 posting by GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINC
ETON.EDU regarding non-alcoholic beer:

In September I brewed my first batch of non-alcoholic beer.  Essentially I copi
ed a recipe from Papazian.  With a few ingredient alterations to his Righteous
Real Ale, the procedure is as follows:

On Day 1, boil the malt extract in 2 gallons of water, using Irish Moss as a
settling agent for the final 15-20 minutes.  Without adding any hops in this
initial boiling, cool after a 30-45 minute boil suing whatever cooling method
you prefer. Pitch yeast in your usual fashion once you have added the necessary
 amount of water to equal 5 gallons.

On Day 12, or whenever you are certain fermentation is complete, siphon the
fermented "beer" into a 8 gallon pot.  Bring to a rolling boil.  Add hops in th
e usual time frames.  For my batch I added hops at the 5 and 55 minute marks.
Irish Moss is added at the half hour mark.  The alcohol boils off at 178 degree
s F.  Once the beer has reached a rolling boil stage, you can be certain that t
he alcohol is in the air in your house.  Therefore keeping the windows open or
your exhaust fan on high is essential or you will inhale some of the alcohol
you are trying to avoid in the beer.  Cool the beer, then siphon into a priming
 tank. I strain out the spent hops by personal choice.

On Day 13, after the beer has once again settled, add 1/4 cup yeast, 1 cup corn
 sugar, and a settling agent if desired.  It should be noted that live yeast
must be added at this point, since boiling from several days before kills the
yeast from the fermentation process.  1/4 cup yeast might be a bit much and in
a later batch I used just over 1/8 cup and achieved good results.  I harvested
yeast from the previous batch in this case, but yeast gathered in any fashion
accomplishes the task.  Then I bottled the beer.

About 2 weeks later I tried my concoction.  It was very good.  In this first ba
tch I had not considered how much water I was also boiling off, so I only bottl
ed about 4 resulting gallons of beer.  In a second batch of non-alcoholic beer
I added a gallon of water after the second boil to make up for the water lost.
Of course, I boiled the extra water first to rid it of oxygen before adding it
to the now alcohol-free beer to avoid contamination.

I realize that the shelf life on my non-alcoholic beer should be shorter than
one with alcohol since no alcohol remains to act as a preservative.  However,
the hops should assist in preservation at least to some degree.

The other beer I made was a porter, with Williams English Dark extract.  The sa
me good results occurred.  A number of people have tried both non-alcoholic
beers and pronounced them at least good.  I made companion batches with the
same ingredients, but with the alcohol remaining, just to see if there would
be a difference in taste.  The only difference seemed to be in the subtle taste
 of alcohol in one beer and not in the other.  Other than this, my alcohol-free
 beers taste remarkably similar to the companion batches that have alcohol.

I am also quite certain that no alcohol remains since the porter with alcohol h
as a 5% rating.  One porter has an obvious kick while the other one has none
at all.  The most obvious compliment I have received (and by everyone who has
had one of my non-alcoholic beers) is when they ask if I am sure that there is
no alcohol.  Except for the tiny amount generated by the yeast fermenting the
corn sugar in the priming tank, the answer is yes.  I have however, felt an
interesting dullness around my temples after imbibing a non-alcoholic beer of m
ine which I attribute possible to the sedative nature of the remaining hops.
Usually the effects of hops are hidden by the alcohol in one's beer.  Not being
 a chemist, however, I have no idea if this last statement is correct.

While I am responding to the 12/9/93 request, I would welcome any thoughts on
my process from members of the HBD.  I have only been brewing beer for 3 years
and as you can tell I am an extract brewer.  The more advanced chemistry that
occasionally appears within the HBD is somewhat beyond me, but I enjoy brewing
nonetheless.  My foray into non-alcoholic beers occurred at the time of my
wife's pregnancy so that she could continue to have a "beer" on occasion.  And
I did want one myself from time to time and cannot stand the commercial
attempts at this style.

Two other notes: I used liquid yeast originally in the batch from which I
harvested yeast for the non-alcoholic beers and I have yet to try a lighter
flavored and colored beer with this process.

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Date:         11 Dec 93 19:19:54 
From: bwchar at mail.wm.edu (Brett Charbeneau)
Subject:      FTP-ing from sierra.stanford.edu

    To all that sent messages aiding me in FINALLY being able to FTP
some files from the HBD archives, a very big thank you!  I am
grateful for all the kind words and encouragement.
    For the record: I was Telnet-ing when I should have been FTP-ing.
Duh....



Brett Charbeneau                            P.O. Box 1776-MHW
Williamsburg Imprints Program               Williamsburg, VA 23187
Colonial Williamsburg Foundation            Tel: (804) 229-1000
INTERNET: bwchar at mail.wm.edu                FAX: (804) 221-8948
  Why is it that the pioneers always have arrows in their backs?


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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 93 18:38:52 CST
From: jpierson at csinc.mn.org (Jim Pierson)
Subject: neon beer signs

Does anyone have neon beer signs or 
other beer related "stuff" that they
are wanting to rid themselves of for 
a reasonable price?


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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 17:18:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Posey <dodger at quack.kfu.com>
Subject: Aluminum for boil only OK?

Will I impart off flavors, or worse, kill, my new brew if I use a
n aluminum pot to pre-boil and cool water to go into the carboy
that will be mixed with the fresh wort?

Just thought I'd ask after I did it without a thought. (duh)

Hoping, Jim Posey


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Date:         11 Dec 93 19:22:59 
From: bwchar at mail.wm.edu (Brett Charbeneau)
Subject:      Brewpots: kegs or REAL stock pots?

    I have seen 24-quart stainless-steel stock pots for sale recently
for as little as $70 (sans lid, mind you).  I *have* been considering
converting a keg into a brew pot, but at this price I am sorely
tempted to just take the plunge.
    Does anybody have any thoughts about my keg vs. pot quandry?


Brett Charbeneau                            P.O. Box 1776-MHW
Williamsburg Imprints Program               Williamsburg, VA 23187
Colonial Williamsburg Foundation            Tel: (804) 229-1000
INTERNET: bwchar at mail.wm.edu                FAX: (804) 221-8948
  Why is it that the pioneers always have arrows in their backs?


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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 93 22:18 CST
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Happy Customer

 
 >From: STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com
 
 >BTW, I am sure that you are right that a larger hopper hole would increase 
 the throughput on a MaltMill, but we tested it as manufactured....  Does it 
 really make any difference in the length of my brewday if I spend 2 vs 3 
 minutes crushing grain?? 
 
 I certainly didn't intend to antagonize a happy customer and I appreciate 
 your comments.  I just thought it was useful to point out that the capacity 
 for high volume milling is built into the MM whether it is needed or not.  A 
 substantial number of MM customers are brew pubs, small breweries and grain 
 retailers who crush a great deal of malt and throughput is very important to 
 them.
 
 >From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
 
 >Anyone know of a good way to make non-alcoholic beer.  I have a friend at
 work who doesn't drink, and I was wondering if any of the great beer
 styles of the world can be brewed without alcohol.
 
 Here is my semi-annual posting of my thoughts on the subject....
 
 
 
                NON-ALCOHOLIC BEER
 
                 Jack Schmidling
 
 Everytime I mention NA beer, people give me funny looks and
 ask questions like, "why would anyone want to do that to
 homebrew?"
 
 Having been a victim of my hobby some years ago, I drank
 nothing but Kingsbury for almost 10 years.  The thought of
 going back to that is all the motivation I need.  I have
 been limiting myself to one 16 oz glass of beer, per day for
 a couple of years and I no longer consider myself a
 recovering alcoholic.
 
 However, making beer is so much fun and hombrew tastes so
 good that rather then cheat, I have been experimenting with
 making NA homebrew and have come with a process that works,
 is simple and most "experts" can't identify what is missing.
 
 The basic process makes a one gallon batch for the skeptical
 but can be scaled up to any size.
 
 When you have your next batch ready to bottle, syphon off
 one gallon before priming.  Put this in a kettle with (2)
 tablespoons of sugar and bring the temp up to 170 F with the
 lid off, hold it there for 15 min.  Let it cool, uncovered
 until the temp gets below 150 F.  Then cover it and cool it
 to room temp as quickly as possible.  You can put it in a
 sink with running water.
 
 When room temp, add 1/8 tsp yeast.  I used EDME yeast but I
 presume that any yeast will do.  However, all bets are off
 if you use Red Star.  Let it sit for a while to disolve and
 disperse, then stir well with a sanitized spoon.
 
 Pour the brew into your favorite bottles and cap.  It is a
 good idea to include at least one plastic bottle to monitor
 cabonation.  When the plastic bottle is hard, refrigerate
 them all.  This usually takes no more than a few days at
 room temp.
 
 If you are set up for kegging, it is even easier.  Just heat
 up 5 gallons as above, keg it when cool and force carbonate
 it.
 
 You can also experiment with adding hops during the heating
 step.   I don't particularly like the results but I am not a
 hops freak.
 
 What does it taste like?  You'll have to try it yourself to
 find out.  However, I would say that it has a slight hint of
 a "cooked" taste.  This taste can be totally masked by the
 addition of a pound of roasted barley in an all grain beer
 or whatever you do to make an extract beer taste like stout.
 
 This beer improves dramatically with age.  If you can
 refrigerate it for a month or two before drinking, all of
 the off flavors will go away and you will be hard  pressed
 to believe it is what it is.
 
 Jean Hunter at Cornell has tested a sample on a gas
 chromatagraph and says it contains around 1.3% alcohol.
 This can not legally be called NA but it solves my problem
 completely.  It is below the threshold that drives me to
 continue drinking.
 
 More recently I have done some additional experimenting and
 think I learned the secret to very low alcohol.  It is not
 some exotic yeast or process, it is simply diluting the beer
 with water.
 
 After "cooking", I simply add an equal volume of water
 (previously boiled) and keg as usual.  The result is an NA
 that is still amazingly good compared to the industrial
 stuff (NA or otherwise) and half the calories and alcohol
 compared to just de-alcoholizing the beer.  Any off flavors
 from cooking will also be reduced in half.   If you don't
 like 50:50, use what ever suits you.
 
 js
 

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Date: Sun, 12 Dec 93 07:18:57 EST
From: brewerbob at aol.com
Subject: HopTech Fruit Extracts

A question was asked about the fruit extracts from HopTech.

I have received the cherry and the raspberry extracts but I have not usd the
raspberry yet (the wheat beer is nearing completion as I type this note,
another few days!).

I used the cherry flavor in a bock beer that is still in lagering but old
enough that I was able to sample one the other day. I am very pleased with
the flavor it imparts but I offer a suggestion that I should have known
myself before I bottled.

I used the amount suggested by Mark Garetz (HopTech) for five gallons. The
flavor is there but it is less than I was looking for. In a lighter beer, it
would probably be fine but in a bock with a "higher than average" hopping
rate, it is lees than desired. 

I suggest that you use your own judgement and and put more than the called
for amount in a darker beer and less, perhaps, in a lighter beer. The
instructions advise testing first by using drops of extract in a glass of
beer but I ignored that! (When all else fails, follow the directions!)

In any case, the stuff is great and it is easy to use. Try it, you'll like
it!

BrewerBob in St. Augustine, FL; charter member of the Northeast Florida
Society of Brewers (the SOB's)

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Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 08:16:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Andy Kurtz <ak35+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Beer Archaeologists

Michael Jackson has a really nice piece in the newest Zymurgy (winter
'93) on the Durden Park Beer Circle.  This is the London-area group
dedicated to the preservation of old beer recipes and brewing methods. 
Anyway, Jackson concludes the piece with a plug for a booklet the group
puts out called "Old British Beers and How to Make Them."  The address
given, of course, is in England (Berkshire, to be exact).  I was
wondering if anyone knows if the booklet is available stateside?


Also, has anyone heard of people doing the same sort of work in the
U.S.?  I know there are several books on brewing history but has anyone
done any archival research into actual recipes?  It would probably be a
difficult project to undertake, with prohibition putting so many
breweries out of work (Pittsburgh had hundreds of neighborhood breweries
before the crackdown).  But, for that, it would be all the more
interesting.  I know that the tiny town I grew up in (2500 people in
rural Ohio) had its own brewery until just about the turn of the
century.  I wonder what their swill tasted like?

ak


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Date: Sun, 12 Dec 93 15:11:15 +0100
From: dejonge at tekserv.geof.ruu.nl (Marc de Jonge)
Subject: EKU


in HBD#1295 Rob Reed writes:

> I just wanted to set the record strait on EKU Kulminator.  Actually
> '28' refers to the number of pounds of malt that are used per
> 1 liter serving.  This works out to be about 1.49 metric tons of
> malt per barrel.  This explains the intense maltiness and the high
> alcohol level - 198 proof if memory serves me correctly.

No this is not correct, it is over 200 proof, that's why you must 
freeze it, to squeeze more alcohol molecules alongside in the bottle.

> It is used as a gasoline substitute in many European communities.
Come on man, everybody in europe knows that gasoline drinking is for
schoolgirls only.

> It is recommended that you wear a wrist or ankle grounding
> strap while you are pouring or drinking this beer to minimize
> the chance of a spark induced fire.  Just a data point...

The new EEC regulation 314159265.359 (sub a ) requires using a flexible
rubber tube attached firmly around both the drinkers neck and the
rim of the glass to prevent dangerous fumes escaping into the
environment.

ObBrewing: Just got a sample of 'de Koninck' brewing yeast, report will
follow in a few weeks...

_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Marc de Jonge                             dejonge at geof.ruu.nl
Utrecht University, Geophysics dept, Utrecht, the Netherlands
 -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-

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Date: Sun, 12 Dec 93 11:57:00 -0600
From: phil.brushaber at lunatic.com (Phil Brushaber)
Subject: Just The Yeast, Man.



I have been pitching yeast from the sediment collected from
previous batches for some time. Right now I have a Pilsner
(using Wyeast Pilsner 2007) fermenting. It seems to have a 
little more trub in it than usual.

I have been collecting the spent sediment from the bottom of 
the primary and pouring it into a sterilized Mason jar. After
a short period of refrigeration the liquid kinda forms three
layers: 1) Brown old beer, 2) White Yeast, 3) Tan Trub.

It's easy enough to pour off the old beer and keep the
remaining sediment... HERE'S THE QUESTION. Assuming that
you don't want to pitch all that old trub.

How do you syphon off/separate just the yeast?
Any thoughts, techniques?

- --> Phil Brushaber, Dallas


 ... (C) Footjoy Brewing: Home of Shoe Brew!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11

- ----
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The Lunatic Fringe BBS * 214-235-5288 * 3 nodes * Richardson, TX* 24 hrs
UseNet, ILink, RIME, FIDO, Annex, Intelec, LuciferNet, PlanoNet, and more!
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=


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Date: Sun, 12 Dec 93 14:56:59 EST
From: lanbrew at aol.com
Subject: Dealing With Plastic Extract Bags

As a teacher of brewing classes, I use a lot of Northwestern extract.  It is
inexpensive and quite good.  The easiest method I have found for dealing with
the bag is to heat the brewing water and use specialty grains, if applicable.
 When the water is hot or the grains are removed, slit the bag (hold it over
the brewpot) in several places with a sharp knife and drop it into the water.
 Please be sure that you turn the heat off before you do this.  
Stir the bag, extract, and everything around for a few minutes, retrieve the
bag with your spoon, and you are done.  The water will have washed all but a
tiny amount of extract out of the bag.  This is quick, easy and effective.
Lanny

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Date: 	Sun, 12 Dec 1993 14:18:00 -0500
From: carlo.fusco at canrem.com (Carlo Fusco)
Subject: Wanted: Canadian Brewers

MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION - THE CANADIAN AMATEUR BREWERS ASSOCIATION
*****************************************************************

WHAT IS CABA?

The Canadian Amateur Brewers Association (CABA) is a Federally
Incorporated non-profit organization whose purpose is to promote
homebrewing as an enjoyable hobby through educational
publications, events, and other activities.


HOW CAN CABA HELP ME?

The Canadian Amateur Brewers Association is dedicated to
improving the skills and knowledge of its members. Members are
invited to participate in the special events organized including
the annual conference, frequent competitions and special
seminars.

For less than the savings from a single batch of homebrew, you
can enroll in the only national club in Canada which will help
you brew better beer.

THE BENEFITS OF JOINING CABA

Newsletter every two months               Annual Conference
Annual Spring Competition                 Fall Competition
Judge training/Tasting seminar            Discounts at retailers
Members Forum

A greater variety of regional activities across Canada will be
planned as CABA's membership increases.

For more information write or phone CABA at:

CABA
19 Cheshire Dr.
Islington, Ontario
M9B 2N7

Phone/Fax: 416-237-9130
Compuserve: 71601,3357
Internet: carlo.fusco at canrem.com
          ligas at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca
Fidonet: Carlo Fusco at 1:229/15


- ---
 * Freddie 1.2.5 * email: carlo.fusco at canrem.com  Sharon,Ontario,Canada

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Date: Sun, 12 Dec 93 16:41:07 EST
From: abaucom at fester.swales.com
Subject: lagering...

Can someone explain true lagering???  Specifically, what part of the
fermentation should be done at cold temperatures.  Here is what I've done
so far...
1) made ~3/4 quart starter from 4 month old Wyeast Calif Lager slurry that I
   saved from a previous batch in August.
2) The starter took about 36 hours to get cranking but It smelled and tasted
   fine so I went ahead and pitched into a cooled (~70F) batch.
3) Now, I let it stay in the house until the batch was cranking (~20 hours)
   and there was 1.5 inches of kreusen (using a 7gal carboy w/5 gal batch).
   The house is about 60F. 
4) Next I moved the batch to the garage which was around 48F degrees.
5) Since then the temp in the garage has dropped to about 38F and the
   fermentation rate (airlock clicks) has slowed way down (30 sec). The batch
   is now 3 days old and there is still some kreusen on top. I have kept the
   carboy close to the wall of the house and have been monitoring the temp
   closely.  I also have a form fitting sytrofoam container that I'm keeping
   it in so any change in temp should be slow. (all appears normal, albeit
   slower)

(Of course I didn't research true lagering before I made this batch,
 that would make too much sense! ;^) 

My question is this...

Should the primary fermentation be done at temps higher than those I am using
and then keep the secondary cold for a few weeks/months?

(not that I have any real control over the temp! other than the sacrificial
cold-beers I drink to appease the cold-weather God)

Any input on this subject would be greatly appreciated! :*)

Thanks,
   Andrew

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew W. Baucom               Phone: (301) 572-1327
| Swales & Associates, Inc.      FAX: (301) 595-2871
| 5050 Powder Mill Road          "Soon, the whole world will know the
| Beltsville, MD 20705            joy of my nipples!" - Stimpy
| abaucom at fester.swales.com
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 20:46:23 +0500 (EST)
From: "David M. Fresco" <fresco at gibbs.oit.unc.edu>
Subject: A Dock Street copy recipe?

Greetings,

I'm interested in making some homebrew that resembles Dock Street. 
Preferably, this recipe would include malt extracts and speciality grains
(rather than all grain).  Please send recipes to:  fresco at unc.edu

Thanks in advance.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=  David M. Fresco                                          =
=  Department of Psychology                                 =
=  CB#3270, Davie Hall                      __o             =
=  Chapel Hill, NC 27599                    \<,             =
=  Internet:  fresco at unc.edu              `,/'(*)           =
=             fresco at med.unc.edu         (*) . ./"""        =
=  Voice:  (919) 962-5082               """"                =
=  Fax:    (919) 962-2537                                   =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1296, 12/13/93