FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Answer these questions, three.... (Steven Tollefsrud)
  Observations (Mark A Fryling)
  Fountaining Beer (Jack Tavares)
  NA/beer, Garetz fruit extracts (Laura Conrad)
  NA/beer, Garetz fruit extracts (Laura Conrad)
  Sour Cherry Syrup in Stout (The Ice-9-man Cometh)
  RE: fruit flavoring ( Raspberry ) (Michael T. Lobo)
  New w/question (Andy" <alanders at mwc.vak12ed.edu>
  perf sheet ("Dennis Lewis")
  Head Retention (Geoff Reeves)
  BREW PROBLEM.. (MATTHEW.BOHNE)
  Murphy's DraughtFlow System / Stuck Stout (Roy Harvey)
  RE: Canadian Microbreweries from HD #1294 (December 10, 1993) ("Ray Siemens")
  All grains are not created equal (Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171  10-Dec-1993 1142)
  Re: burnt aftertaste, homebrew names (Jeff Benjamin)
  EKU KULMINATOR ("Robert H. Reed")
  evidence ("Anton Verhulst")
  EKU 28 (GNT_TOX_)
  America OnLine: censorship (GNT_TOX_)
  FTP-ing from sierra.stanford.edu (Brett Charbeneau)
  afrika (Mark Bunster)
  AB in Wmsbg (Mark Bunster)
  Cranberry Lambic, Maple Syrup, Ngoma & EKU 28 (Mark Stickler Internet Mail Name)
  Re: SS keg question (Dion Hollenbeck)
  EKU28/mlt_liqu/blwffVSnon-/idiots/dryhopVStea/BurntBeer/head/HppdXtract (korz)
  Good to the last drop. (Norman Farrell)
  Re: Q: Kegging and Refrigeration (Dion Hollenbeck)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 11:42:55 +0100
From: steve_t at fleurie.inria.fr (Steven Tollefsrud)
Subject: Answer these questions, three....

Just got my order of brewing supplies shipped from England
to sunny old Southern France where you can't find such things
as home beer brewing is unheard of. The shipping costs were
almost as much as the cost of the supplies (extracts, grains, hops
and yeasts), OUCH! Still, I'm gleefully rubbing my hands together in
anticipation of brewing my next batch, but wanted to bounce a few
questions off the HBD before starting...

Thanks, in advance, for your response(s).

1. Re-using Lager Yeast in Fermenter: I was wondering what risks
or advantages there would be if I ferment a second batch on top
of the yeast left in my primary after siphoning off the previous
batch. I mean to siphon the first batch off, leaving the 1/2 inch
or so of sediment and then immediatly pour on the cooled (80-85 F)
3 gals of wort and top off with water. How much of this 1/2 inch
of trub is live yeast? Would the rest of this dead organic trub
impart off flavors? Would the advantages of having a large yeast
population and a quick start of fermentation outweigh the risk of
off flavors from decaying trub (if there is any)? Would the temps
and sudden introduction of concentrated (3 gal) wort and subsequent
topping off with water shock the yeasties too much?

2. Oatmeal in Stout/Porter: I generally avoid throwing in things
like the kitchen sink. Something of the German Reinheitsgeboet
must have rubbed off during my three years in Munich. But I have
never forgotten the taste of Sammy Smiths Oatmeal Stout and I 
noticed several recipes in the Cat's Meow containing different forms
of oatmeal. I'm intrigued. What qualities would oatmeal add?
Any suggestion on quantities? (I can only find rolled oats here)
When should I add it to the boil? Or should it be steeped? Mashed?

3. When/How to Add Specialty Grains: I plan to make the following
extract based stout:
	4 lbs. Muntons Dark Malt Extract Syrup
	4 lbs. Muntons Light Malt Extract Syrup
	1/2 lb. Crushed Crystal Malt
	1/2 lb. Crushed Chocolate Malt
	1/2 lb. Black Patent Malt
	(1 lb rolled oats ???)
	1 oz. Northern Brewer Hops (30 min.) 
	1.5 oz Hallertauer loose Hops (dry, in the primary)

None of my homebrew info sources explain when/how to properly
use specialty grains for an extract based brew.
In the past I've just tossed my grains in at the beginning of the
boil and boiled the hell outta them for an hour. Those batches
were VERRRY bitter, though I'm not sure if it wasn't the Northern
Brewer (2 oz, loose) which I was trying out at the same time.
Should I not let the grains get more than 150 degrees F, as in
mash conversion? Should I add them after the boil, below a certain
temperature, and let them steep. What temps? What times?
Thanks again,

Steve Tollefsrud
VALBONNE, FRANCE

steve_t at fleurie.compass.fr

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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 8:41:48 EST
From: Mark A Fryling <mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Observations

Hi Gang,
Just thought I'd throw out a few observations:
     First, on the subject of EKU28 Kulminator, I love the stuff.  It is an 
     extremely malty, slightly sweet and very strong dopplebock.  I had always
     thought that it was an eisbock, but I am willing to believe the contrary.
     This stuff is definitely not meant to be quaffed in large quantities but
     as an occasional treat, I think its great.  Personally I prefer it to
     Samichlaus which to my palate has less body and sweetness than is
     necissary to balance the high alcohol content.  Another very high alcohol
     beer that I really like is Thomas Hardy's Ale.  This is a barleywine style
     English ale which is also very sweet and strong with pronounced fruity
     (pineapple?) flavors and aromas.  A buddy of mine was runner up to best
     of show in a local competition with a clone of this (Toxic Thomas').
     Unfortunately, Ohio has wierd laws about high alcohol beers that are still
     on the books from the 3.2% ABV days so we cannot get some of the domestic
     barleywines like Old Foghorn and Bigfoot here but whenever I am out of
     state I keep my eyes peeled.

     Second, I recently helped some friends of mine get started with
     homebrewing and since it was their first experience with the process, I
     decided to use dry yeast for simplicity.  I have used Wyeast from the
     start (about 2.5 years of homebrewing) but since these friends didn't
     know wort from warts, I thought I'd keep it basic.  Anyway, I elected for
     the following recipe:

          4# can Telfords Premium Bitter Hopped Extract
          3.3# bag of NWestern Gold Liquid Malt Xtract (unhopped)
          1 oz homegrown Cascade for finishing
          Red Star Dry Ale Yeast

     I chose the Red Star because of good reports here on the HBD and sure
     enough, I tried a bottle of it last night and it was quite good.  None of
     the estery or phenolic flavors that I have heard about with dry yeast.
     The beer has a nice fruityness and overall is very clean.  Im sure it will
     encourage them to keep up with their new hobby.

     Just my $0.02.

Mark

"Never let your sense of morality prevent you from doing whats right"
I. Asimov

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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 09:29:28 -0800
From: Jack Tavares <tavares at ctron.com>
Subject: Fountaining Beer

I opened a bottle of my Christmas Stout (after only 5 days .-)_
And it made the most beautiful black, gingery smellig fountain 
that I have seen in a long time. My wife, however, was less impressed
with the mess in made.

I used a recipe from Cats Meow 2 (pg 5-20 in my edition).
If i remember correctly the SG had stabilized at arount 1.14.
That seems high, but my memory might be off. 

Now, i am going to let it sit at least another week before I 
open up another bottle.

If i have the same problem, is there anything I can do to correct 
it?

Jack Tavares 

Sorry, but at DoD minimum speed it is impossible to speak. There is just 
too much wind noise.  At that speed I am spending all my concentration 
allowance on riding, and cannot afford anymore thought for words.  
However, when I finish a ride and the bike is in the garage cooling 
down, the single word that comes to mind is:

HOMEBREW.
Start planning now for the 94 NECDoDSF! 







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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 09:27:26 EST
From: lconrad at epoch.com (Laura Conrad)
Subject: NA/beer, Garetz fruit extracts


>>  Date:     Thu, 9 Dec 93 14:59 EST
>>  From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
>>  Subject:  NA Beer

>>  Anyone know of a good way to make non-alcoholic beer.  I have a friend at
>>  work who doesn't drink, and I was wondering if any of the great beer
>>  styles of the world can be brewed without alcohol.

Of the commercial non-alcoholic beers I've tried, the only one I
consider even remotely a good copy of its style is the one Miller
makes.  American Pilsener isn't one of my favorite styles, but it is
one of the important beer styles of the world.

Given how remote all the professional attempts at non-alcoholic beers
are from the taste I like in beer, I haven't tried doing it myself.


>>  Garetz fruit extracts:

I ordered the Raspberry and Cherry fruit extracts from Mark Garetz.  I
haven't yet had time to brew a fruit beer with them (I might get to a
Framboise this weekend), but I have experimented with adding drops to
my cyser.  The raspberry worked pretty well, but the Cherry is
definitely concentrated enough to be hard to control in this mode.
Next time I get the urge to try this, I will dilute a dropperfull N to
1, where N is some number like 4 or 5, and add that by drops to my
glass.

In any case, the flavors were certainly good, it was just hard to
squeeze the cyser bottle hard enough to get the level of cherry flavor
I wanted.

			Laura



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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 09:27:26 EST
From: epochsys!lconrad at uunet.UU.NET (Laura Conrad)
Subject: NA/beer, Garetz fruit extracts


>>  Date:     Thu, 9 Dec 93 14:59 EST
>>  From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
>>  Subject:  NA Beer

>>  Anyone know of a good way to make non-alcoholic beer.  I have a friend at
>>  work who doesn't drink, and I was wondering if any of the great beer
>>  styles of the world can be brewed without alcohol.

Of the commercial non-alcoholic beers I've tried, the only one I
consider even remotely a good copy of its style is the one Miller
makes.  American Pilsener isn't one of my favorite styles, but it is
one of the important beer styles of the world.

Given how remote all the professional attempts at non-alcoholic beers
are from the taste I like in beer, I haven't tried doing it myself.


>>  Garetz fruit extracts:

I ordered the Raspberry and Cherry fruit extracts from Mark Garetz.  I
haven't yet had time to brew a fruit beer with them (I might get to a
Framboise this weekend), but I have experimented with adding drops to
my cyser.  The raspberry worked pretty well, but the Cherry is
definitely concentrated enough to be hard to control in this mode.
Next time I get the urge to try this, I will dilute a dropperfull N to
1, where N is some number like 4 or 5, and add that by drops to my
glass.

In any case, the flavors were certainly good, it was just hard to
squeeze the cyser bottle hard enough to get the level of cherry flavor
I wanted.

			Laura



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Date:    Fri, 10 Dec 1993 8:53:18 -0600 (CST)
From: SMITH at EPVAX.MSFC.NASA.GOV (The Ice-9-man Cometh)
Subject: Sour Cherry Syrup in Stout

A question for you all.  Has anyone used Sour Cherry Syrup (I found it in
the Middle Eastern foods section of the local ethnic market, though it
was made in Yugoslavia) in brewing?

I used it in a cherry stout that I started a couple of weeks ago, adding a
16oz bottle to a 5gal batch after the initial fermentation subsided.  It
foamed up again for a couple of days, due to the sugar, then calmed down;
I tasted it, and there was hardly any cherry component.  It was pretty
seriously cherry-ish in the syrup bottle, though.  Any ideas on how much it'd
take to do the job?  If this will work, it's a whole lot easier than
fooling around with fresh fruit....


|     James W. Smith, NASA MSFC EP25     |     SMITH at epvax.msfc.nasa.gov     |
|    "I'm going home, taking a hot bath, and sleeping alone!"  
|                                                 --Omaha the Cat Dancer     |
|    Neither NASA nor (!James) is responsible for what I say.  Mea culpa.    | 


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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 09:55:13 EST
From: mlobo at sentry.foxboro.com (Michael T. Lobo)
Subject: RE: fruit flavoring ( Raspberry )

Greetings:
	
	Alan in Austin ( HBD 1294) laments the lack of color in his raspberry
beer.  I made a raspberry stout using a soda raspberry flavoring made by 
Flavorchem in Il. and it is RED!  Straight out of the bottle it tastes
horrible ( but raspberry-ish ) and it will dye everything it touches red.

I used 1/2 the bottle for the stout after fermentation - at bottle time.  I 
tasted the stuff at that time and I was afraid I had overdone it with the
flavoring - really strong raspberry flavor.  Well, about 1 month of aging
has improved this beverage.  The stout flavors balance the raspberry quite
nicely, and if I hold a bottle to the light, it has a redish glow - the color
is certainly there.  

The flavoring comes in a small bottle ( ~ 2 OZ ) and cost $2.58.

Next time I use it I will use 1/3 bottle - less if I'm making a lighter beer.

regards,
Michael

Michael T. Lobo   508 549 2487
Foxboro Co.
mlobo at foxboro.com  "I Love beer, beer loves me; when I drink too much, 
my beer speaks for me" -Monty

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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 9:56:09 EST
From: "Adrian L. Anderson (Andy" <alanders at mwc.vak12ed.edu>
Subject: New w/question

Brewers,

    I am new to the list and to homebrewing.  Have one batch of
Continental Light, made from a kit, to my credit.  My product
came out fine body and colorwise w/ good carbonation.  The only
problem is a very (ultra - mega) yeasty aftertaste.  Actually
enough to make me shivver after swallowing.  The guy at the
store where I bought the kit said to chill the next batch
before bottling and that should cure the problem.  From reading
the messages here, I suppose my description is a little cryptic
and that without knowing other variables involved it might be
difficult to suggest a solution.  I just thought that maybe
there is a fairly standard cause for excessive yeast flavor.
The fermenting went according to directions as far as time and
specific gravity readings go.

    I read, in one brewing book, a note about skimming the
fermenting froth from the top of the batch as it rises during
the fermentation.  The guy at the store said "No, don't do
that."  Can anyone offer advice on this yeast mystery?

- -- 
              ____________________________________________

              Andy Anderson                 Winchester, VA
                        alanders at mwc.vak12ed.edu
          "You can't have everything, where would you put it?"


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Date:         Fri, 10 Dec 1993 09:41:22 CDT
From: "Dennis Lewis" <DLEWIS%jscdo6 at jesnic.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject:      perf sheet

In Friday's HBD Jim Busch writes:

"I favor using a hot water heater for sparge (hot liquor tank), and 
use the kettle to mash in.  Transfer the mash to the dedicated 
lauter tun with some kind of false bottom (perf sheet works great), 
insulate the lauter tun.  "

I have a keg that I fitted with a SS screen false bottom and have a 
tap coming out of the bottom of the keg as my sweet liquor outlet. 
The perf sheet I have is 3/32" holes on 5/32" centers. (I got this 
size from the Brewer's Warehouse sheets. They claim it's the 
standard microbrewery size. Can anyone verify?)

        |             |  Keg
        |_____________| Screen set in bottom
         \_____  ____/
              | |__________
              \____________			

             Tap out the bottom 

Anyway, I get a lot of grain particles that bypass the screen, 
enough that I have to send the runnings thru a strainer to catch the 
big pieces. I have an adjustable MaltMill and have tried it set as 
wide as .055" to minimize husk shredding, but I still get 
granule-size particles passing the screen. Whaddaya think? 

I've considered
* Crushing twice. Once set wide to remove husks, then set close to 
pulverize everything.
* Getting a smaller screen size, like 1/16" holes
* Having the screen welded into the keg or fitting some sort of 
gasket around the screen. There is a slight gap around the edges, 
but it appears to be of less width than the holes. Also, right as 
the last of the liquor drains out, I get a huge amount of grain 
coming out the tap.
* Putting a small extension on the keg side of the outlet to raise 
it about the bottom of the tun floor, letting any crud sit on the 
bottom.

Any help on this is greatly appreciated. My beers turn out pretty 
good, but my extraction is suffering (28 ppg for the bucket system, 
25 ppg for this) and the frustration level is getting pretty high. 
Also I've had to add polyclar to the finished beer because the 
tannins are a bit high from all the husk material making it into the 
kettle and that eliminates a lot of the malty flavor that I worked 
so hard for.

Dennis Lewis                    <dlewis%jscdo6 at jesnic.jsc.nasa.gov>
Homebrew, The Final Frontier.

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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 08:43:50 -0700
From: reeves at lanl.gov (Geoff Reeves)
Subject: Head Retention

>From: Earle M. Williams <earlew at drc.usbm.gov>
>Subject: Head Retention, Beer Labels, and less...
>
>
>I cracked the top on a bottle of Nut Brown Ale last night, aged two weeks,
>and i noticed that while the carbonation was good, there was very little
>head.  I tried pouring the beer from about 4 inches (10 cm) and it foamed
>up nicely, but within about 10 seconds it had settled to a slim memory
>of a thick foamy head. 

What you need for good head retention are proteins. Proteins are what
provides the surface tension which give the bubbles some strength. However,
proteins can also cause haze so you have to have a ballance. Hops are a
good source of proteins for head retention but you have a Brown Ale so you
have to go easy on the bitterness so use more of a lower alpha acid hop. If
you aren't adding hops at all then a good short-cut is to use just enough
wheet (2-4 oz) to get some proteins but not so much that you get any
noticable wheet flavor. Good hot and cold breaks will be necessary to clear
the beer.

The above has worked for me in practice but I have a question about the
theory. What is the difference between the proteins that aid head retention
and those which produce chill haze? Is it molecular wieght?, length of the
molecule? Why does one class coagulate and precipitate and the other
doesn't or does so to a lesser degree?

Geoff

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|    A brewery is like a toothbrush, everyone should have their own.      |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Geoff Reeves:  Space Science Division, Los Alamos National Laboratory   |
|                reeves at lanl.gov (internet) or  essdp2::reeves (span)     |
|                Phone (505) 665-3877                                     |
|                Fax   (505) 665-4414                                     |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+


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Date: 10 Dec 93 10:47:03-0500
From: MATTHEW.BOHNE at sprint.sprint.com
Subject: BREW PROBLEM..

I RECENTLY BREWED UP A HOLIDAY BRAU AND ADDED THE USUAL ASSORTMENT OF SPICES
AND THINGS.. AND I HAD SOME STRANGE RESULTS. 

WHEN I MOVED EVERYTHING TO THE FERMENT TANK I DIDN'T GET A BUBBLE FOR THE 1ST
DAY, HOWEVER 2 DAYS LATER IT WAS AT FULL CRANK. ON THE 6TH DAY IT BLEW BEER
THROUGH THE VAPOR LOCK SOME 9 FEET INTO THE AIR(RATHER FUN TO WATCH BUT A MESS
TO CLEAN..) THE HEAD PEEKED AND FELL BACK IN, I DRAINED IT TO THE SECOND
FERMENT TANK AND WAITED.. IT BUBBLED SLIGHTLY ONCE AN HOUR, 2 DAYS LATER, I
BOTTLED. IT HAS BEEN 2 WEEKS AND I WENT DOWN TO THE CELLAR AND I NOTICED A
WHITE RING INSIDE OF ALL THE BOTTLES... WHAT IS THIS?? IT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE A
MINI HEAD BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO BE THICKENED FROTH... WILL IT GO AWAY?? SHOULD I
JIGGLE THE BOTTLES AND GET IT TO DROP TO THE BOTTOM? I ALSO NOTICED A THICKER
SEDIMENT IN THE BOTTOM OF MY BOTTLES THAN USUAL. SHOULD I BE CONCERNED? I
OPENED ONE AND GOT THIS MAJOR GUSHER (I SEEM TO BE GETTING A LOT OF THESE
THESE DAYS BOTH WITH OLD AND NEW BEERS) -- SHOULD THEY BE CHILLED LONGER? IS
THERE ANYWAY TO COUNTERACT THIS?

ALL INPUTS WOULD BE APPRECIATED -- PLEASE CC ME DIRECTLY IF POSSIBLE.

THANKS!!
MATTHEW BOHNE
SPRINT COMMUNICATIONS
SYSTEMS DEVELOPMENT 




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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 07:53:14 -0800
From: royh at netcom.com (Roy Harvey)
Subject: Murphy's DraughtFlow System / Stuck Stout


Two questions:

  1) I just bought a fantastic can(!) of Murphy's Irish Stout that poured like
a dream!  The can is marketed as containing a 
   "Unique Draughtflow System" - basically a plastic pressurized insert.
Can someone please explain how this works?  Very Impressed!

  2) I've been working on a Stout of my own that seems to be stuck at 1.030
for some time now.  The airlock is still held high, though bubbling is maybe
once per hour.  I used Wyeast Irish Ale to get it going...  Thanks!

Roy Harvey
Mountain View, CA
royh at netcom.com

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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 08:36:19 PST  
From: "Ray Siemens" <siemens at unixg.ubc.ca>
Subject: RE: Canadian Microbreweries from HD #1294 (December 10, 1993)


Richard Nantel <72704.3003 at CompuServe.COM> writes:

>The latest trend is for high-alcohol brews. The newest addition is Labatt's
>XXX with 7.4% alcohol. Strangely enough, and to quote a German aquaintance,
>`you have 50 different beers and they all taste alike! The new potent brews
>are no exception. Thank goodness for some excellent Quebec microbreweries;
>most notably St-Ambroise and Hops Brau.

I agree, Richard, that much Canadian beer (like much American beer)
tastes alike, but luckily Quebec does not have a monopoly on excellent
micro-breweries.  Last time I was in Montreal I remember drinking some fine
beer, but I also recall sampling more than a few pints in Toronto (Upper
Canada Breweries, Amsterdam & Rotterdam Brew Pub, and many others).  Even
here in Vancouver we have several, my favorite being Granville Island; that
is, aside from what I make in my own kitchen.

Best,

Ray Siemens
University of British Columbia
siemens at unixg.ubc.ca

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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 11:44:49 EST
From: Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171 10-Dec-1993 1142 <macneal at pate.enet.dec.com>
Subject: All grains are not created equal

In HBD #1284 Jim Busch made a few comments regarding grains which raised
some questions in my mind.  Apparently Jim feels that all grains are not
created equal (use imported Munich, not domestic, why would you use a 6 row?).

What are the differences between a 6 row and a 2 row malt?  What are the
advantages of using imported vs. domestic (domestic = American I assume).
What should be considered when choosing between say, German, Belgian, British,
and American grains?

Keith MacNeal
Digital Equipment Corp.
Hudson, MA

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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 9:56:27 MST
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: burnt aftertaste, homebrew names

Jeff M. Michalski <michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu> writes:

>  The grain bill is as follows:
>
>  6 lb pale
>  3 lb klages
>  1 lb dark crystal (caramunich)
>  1 lb chocolate
>  1 lb carapils
>  1/4 lb black patent
>
>It has an overwhelming burnt taste to it!  The initial flavor is
>strong malt and ETOH (and a lot of hops!) but the charcoal flavor
>that follows is enough to scare away my guests.  My question is
>will this heavy roast flavor soften with age?

There are a couple of possible causes for a burnt taste.  The first
is simply the amount of dark malts (chocolate & patent).  You basically
have a very dark porter.  In fact, a little roast barley and you'd have
a stout.  If it's a "roasty-burnt" character, that's probably the reason.
This character will tend to smooth with time, so hang on to it and see
how it progresses.  Maybe you should just find some stout drinkers to
share it with!

On the other hand, if it has a very unpleasant burnt taste, and aroma,
it may be due to phenolics, possibly from bad yeast, an infection, or
even somewhat from oxidation.  It's less likely in this case that the
problem will go away, though you still may want to let it sit a few
months and see what happens.

Peter Brauer asked about homebrew "namebrands".  I'm sure there are
quite a few.  The "Organization:"  header in my email (which
unfortunately doesn't show up in the digest) says "Fat Wanda's Brewery
and Recording".  This occasionally results my receiving messages that
ask "Just what in the heck is Fat Wanda's?".  For the record, Wanda is
my partner's golden retriever, who, while not exactly fat, is a little
on the chunky side.  Actually, the full title of the establishment is
"Fat Wanda's Brewery, Recording, Photo, Custom Fly Rods, and Garden-
Fresh Produce".  Dance studio and Diesel Repair to be added soon.

- --
Jeff Benjamin                               benji at hpfcla.fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado	
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
					    - T.S. Eliot

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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 12:01:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert H. Reed" <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: EKU KULMINATOR

I just wanted to set the record strait on EKU Kulminator.  Actually
'28' refers to the number of pounds of malt that are used per
1 liter serving.  This works out to be about 1.49 metric tons of
malt per barrel.  This explains the intense maltiness and the high
alcohol level - 198 proof if memory serves me correctly.  It is
used as a gasoline substitute in many European communities.

It is recommended that you wear a wrist or ankle grounding
strap while you are pouring or drinking this beer to minimize
the chance of a spark induced fire.  Just a data point...

Rob Reed

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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 12:24:47 EST
From: "Anton Verhulst" <verhulst at zk3.dec.com>
Subject: evidence


>He also deleted messages I left there that he claimed contained
>"libellous statements" concerning Jim Koch's Boston Beer Company.
>In actual fact, all statements I made concerning the BBC were backed
>up by hard evidence from the Home Brew Digest, Boston Globe, and
>regional Brews Papers. 

Although I'm not a lawyer (and I don't play one on TV :-), I'm very sure that
statements in newspapers can in no way be considered hard evidence. 

The alleged censorship, if true, is reprehensible (I guess I can sound
like a lawyer :-).

- --Tony Verhulst

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Date:     Fri, 10 Dec 93 12:43 EST
From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:  EKU 28

In HBD #1294 Brian R. Seay wanted to know if anyone likes EKU 28.

I for one like it.  I've had it 3 times, and then the restaurant I
used to get it at closed down.  It has a unique taste.  It's as thick
as maple syrup, really dark, and HEAVY, but had a flavor I could
enjoy.  I think everyone should try it al least once.

Andy Pastuszak


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Date:     Fri, 10 Dec 93 12:48 EST
From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:  America OnLine: censorship

In HBD #1242 J. Andrew Patrick talks about America OnLine censoring
his messages.

Well, I was on there last night, and they're still talking about you,
or least about someone using profanity in messages.  There is a guide
you receive with your AOL kit, and profanity violates your membership
rules.  If they feel it's profanity, then they have a right to do
something about it.  You agreed to this when you signed up.

Nasty posting about the BBC were probably deleted for fear of a law
suit.  How man people has Jim Koch sued already?

AOL is in the business of making money.  Hell, maybe the moderator
likes Samuel Adams?  Who know, who cares.  What I saw I liked.

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Date:         7 Dec 93 18:01:01 
From: bwchar at mail.wm.edu (Brett Charbeneau)
Subject:      FTP-ing from sierra.stanford.edu

Help!

    I can't seem to be able to log onto the sierra machine.  I can
telnet to it get the login prompt, but no matter what I try I
continually get an ''incorrect login'' error.  I have tried the
following permutations:

    userid:                 password:

    anonymous               anonymous
    Anonymous               Anonymous
    Anonymous               bwchar at mail.wm.edu
    anonymous                at mail.wm.edu
    bwchar at mail.wm.edu      anonymous

    My home machine is an IBM - what William an Mary confusingly
calls ''gopher''.
    Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!


Brett Charbeneau                            P.O. Box 1776-MHW
Williamsburg Imprints Program               Williamsburg, VA 23187
Colonial Williamsburg Foundation            Tel: (804) 229-1000
INTERNET: bwchar at mail.wm.edu                FAX: (804) 221-8948
  Why is it that the pioneers always have arrows in their backs?


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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 14:24:06 EST
From: Mark Bunster <mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu>
Subject: afrika

* Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 12:01:43 +1000
* From: esonn1 at cc.swarthmore.edu
* Subject: Ngoma
* 
* Hi hombrewers,
*         I recently tasted some African beer called Ngoma.  The beer tastes
* great (also has quite a kick to it), but I have a few problems with it.
* First, it's very expensive ($33 a case) and second, I think it must be
* pasteurized because it claims to be brewed and bottled _in_ Africa.  Does
* anyone know what type of beer this is?  Anyone tried to copy it?  I would
* be most interested in a recipe.  I'm an extract brewer now, but I'm looking
* forward to doing a partial mash as Norm described in the HBD, so all
* extract or partial extract recipes are in order.
* 

Must be one of those African Pale Ales, made for those long distances to "the
colonies."

Seriously, though, what kind of beer was it?  From where in Africa does it
come? How did it taste other than having quite a kick (did I ever tell you
about my Uncle Manny who used to bathe once a month in EKU 28?), and did you
really buy a case of it?


- -- 
Mark Bunster                      |                                  
Survey Research Lab               |             MORE COFFEE
                                  |  
mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu            | 
367-8813                          |

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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 14:52:48 EST
From: Mark Bunster <mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu>
Subject: AB in Wmsbg

* a nice Kent Golding hop aroma and flavor.  However, although I
* am a BJCP judge, I lost my confidence in distinguishing
* taste subtleties after failing a self inflicted taste test
* during a tour of the Anheiser-Busch brewery in Williamsburg VA
* about a month ago.  I could not distinguish between bud,
* bud-dry, bud-lite and Michelob.  Well, maybe bud and Michelob has

As a former resident of Williamsburg, and a former many-time visitor of AB's
plant there, I thought I'd offer some insights.

 -You get two freebies, which used to be four. You needn't schlep through the
tour to do it, either--just walk a couple hundred feet from the entrance and
yer there.

 -you can get to the brewery from the amusement park next door. There's a
monorail that takes you to it, and the walk is even shorter to the freebie
area (no exhibits to pass by.) Rather than enjoy the hokey atmosphere and
$2.75 AB beers at the "hofbrauhuas", take the monorail, quaff some freebies
(they will politely limit you after your 2nd only if they're paying
attention--never have I been bugged about getting three) and head back to the
park. Return later for more freebies if you desire, as the servers change
shifts regularly, and in summer when it's crowded they're way busy.
OK, OK, so I was a college student back then, and free beer, even AB, was a
deal. 

 -If you're really mad at old August and Co., you may also gain free entrance
into the park, which saves you $25 a head. This depends on them still having
a way for you to just shop in their boutique area without paying the whole
tariff. You pay a deposit and must return in two hours to get your money
back. Once in, go directly to the monorail and ride to the brewery. As you
leave the park, your hand will be stamped so you may return to the park.
(people just taking the brewery tour can't get on the monorail and go to the
park.) Drink a beer if you like, then return to the park. Get your money
back, then drive over to the brewery (drink more beer), get back on the
monorail and head for a fun filled day on rides built from money made on all
those suckers who think Bud dry is a taste achievement.

Sorry if this is not germane, but, y'know.


- -- 
Mark Bunster                      |Exchange conversation if you dare-- 
Survey Research Lab--VCU          |Share an empty thought or a laugh.
Richmond, VA 23220                |
mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu            |
(804) 367-8813/353-1731           |                          -edFROM

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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 14:53:15 EST
From: Mark Stickler Internet Mail Name <mstickle at lvh.com>
Subject: Cranberry Lambic, Maple Syrup, Ngoma & EKU 28


In reference to Sam Adams Cranberry Lambic and the use of Maple Syrup
in beer, I was at a Beer Tasting/Dinner last evening, ala Michael Jackson
in Belguim on the Beer Hunter video, at a local resturant (Allentown, Pa)
where twelve christmas beers were served throughout a six course meal.
This included Anchor, Sierra Nevada, Stoudt's, Dolle Broweries (sp), 
Samiclaus, Schildes (Belgium Busch), Dock Street, St. Sylvester, Young's,
several other Belgiums, and the now infamous Cranberry Lambic. The host
pointed out it wasn't a true lambic and said that it had maple syrup added
to balance the tartness of the cranberries. To me it tasted like a Kriek I
attempted last summer, namely not so good. But, for those looking for a 
use of maple syrup in homebrewing, this could be your chance.

In HBD1294 Eugene writes:

> I recently tasted some African beer called Ngoma.  The beer tastes
> great (also has quite a kick to it), but I have a few problems with it. 
> Does anyone have a recipe?

I have had this beer. It is obviously a lager in the Munich style, very
malty and surprisingly good (well balanced). I would start by using a 
bock recipe. Sorry, can't get more specific than that, had just one bottle
of it and that was more than year ago.

Also posted:
 
> First, the 28 in the title refers to the percent of 
> alcohol in the beer.  That's right folks, 28% = 56 proof. 

My understanding is that the 28 stands for the OG in degrees Plato and,
as was also posted in HBD1294, the abv is in 13% range.

And also posted: 

> before my curiosity makes me waste eleven bucks, has ANYONE out there
> ENJOYED EKU-28?  In HBD 580, it was referred to as "vile".

I like it, but there's no accounting for taste. My bother says he thinks it
has the same aroma as the insect we call a "daddy-long-legger" after the
legs have been pulled off! I guess that qualifies as vile. Please note,
my brother and I haven't pulled the legs off a daddy-long-legger since the
late '60's when I was about 8 years old. (25 years before Beavis and
Butthead). 



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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 11:57:28 PST
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: SS keg question

>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com> writes:

Jim> Sorry if this has been addressed before and I wasn't paying attention.
Jim> For those of you who have turned a SS keg into a brewpot, where did you
Jim> get the keg?  How much did it cost you?  I've seen references to Sanke
Jim> kegs for this.  Are these the only type of kegs to turn into brewpots?
Jim> What other kinds have people used?

Jim> Private e-mail is fine.

Jim> Many thanks in advance.
Jim> - --
Jim> Jim Grady       |"Immediately after Orville Wright's historic 12 second
Jim> grady at an.hp.com | flight, his luggage could not be located."
Jim>                 |                       S. Harris


Legal Sankey (straight sided)kegs are available from BCI for about
$42.  Any of the old style rounded kegs are harder to make a stand
for.  Also, the skirt around the bottom of the Sankey kegs makes a
good flame protector.  Another source, but of higher cost is
Sabco-Save-A-Barrel.  I do not have Sabco phone #, but they advertise
the "Brew Magic" RIMS system in Zymurgy.  

BCI can be contacted at 

Bev-Con International
6400 HIghway 51 South
Post Office Box 396
Brighton, Te.  38011
(901)476-8000
(800)284-9410

Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Senior Software Engineer                      megatek!hollen at uunet.uu.net
Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California    ucsd!megatek!hollen

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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 14:18 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: EKU28/mlt_liqu/blwffVSnon-/idiots/dryhopVStea/BurntBeer/head/HppdXtract

There have been a number of incorrect interpretations of the "28" in 
EKU's Kulminator:

>Bavaria is that the 28 in EKU 28 is the PROOF of the beer.  You got
>it.  28 proof aka 14% alcohol.  I have a bottle saved from when I last

and

>his comments.  First, the 28 in the title refers to the percent of 
>alcohol in the beer.  That's right folks, 28% = 56 proof.  The bier is 

Actually, Darryl has it right:
>brewed from a wort that does achieve at least 28 degrees Plato
>(about sg 1.112).


**********
Andy writes:
>Correct me if I'm wrong(and I know you will), but isn't there a
>federal law that says beer can only be a maximum of 6% alcohol?
>Anything stronger than that has to be called a Malt Liquor.

The laws concerning the labeling of strong beers vary from state to state.
What you say may be true for some states, but I don't know which.

**********
Bill writes:
>Every now and then people have been debating the use or not of
>using a blow-off, so I thought I would add a data point to this
>controversy.  I brewed 6 1/2 gallons of IG 1.041 English Special
>Bitter style which was siphoned into a 7 gallon carboy  and
>pitched about 3/4 quarts of yeast starter.  After about 3-4
>hours I reracked the wort, filling one 5 gallon carboy to about
>3 inches from the brim, and the other with the remainder.  Both

<snip>

>but after 10 days the blow-off batch was still bubbling every
>13 seconds, while the non-blow-off batch seemed finished.  So,
>after 11 days I reracked both batches and was shocked to find
>the gravity of the blow-off batch to be 1.020, while the
>non-blow-off batch was down to 1.011.  The non-blow-off batch

Fermenter geometry is the difference.  Note that some yeasts are
more sensitive to fermenter geometry than others.

<snip>
>the BURP homebrew club meeting for a more unbiased comparison.
>I did tell them that one was blow-off and one was not, but I
>didn't identify which was which.
>Some of the members correctly identified the blow-off batch
>saying they thought it was slightly smoother, (one correctly
>identified the blow-off batch but said she liked the
>non-blow-off batch better).  Some incorrectly identified the two
>batches and some "punted" and said no difference.  All agreed
>that if there was a difference it was minor. Therefore,

I suggest that perhaps the 3-4 hour pause to allow for hot and
cold break settling and the subsequent transfer off the trub
reduced the benefits of blowoff.  I've done this experiment
twice and each time the difference was stunning.  I used a
1 gallon jug, filled 3/4 full and a 5 gallon carboy filled to
the top.  The geometry was not very close.  I would like to
try to retry this test with closer fermenter geometries.  Perhaps
a 5-gallon fermenter and a 6-gallon fermenter?  Perhaps a 3-gallon
and a 1-gallon jug?  I'll have to work on it.

**********
Tim writes:
>Subject: Is Tim McNerney an idiot?

I disagree.

>Sorry for wasting space with a stupid question (if you believe their are

I urge everyone to ask all questions they might have -- if we don't ask
(or are afraid to ask) then we could all lose out on something useful.

**********
Delano writes:
>Subject: Hop Teas and Dry Hopping

<snip>
>hop taste that Celebration has.  I'm leaning towards dry hopping 
>again, but noted a suggestion that you steep hops in a hot water 
>and add this tea at bottling time for greater flavor and aroma.  

A member of a B.O.S.S., Terry Murphree (I hope I got the spelling right),
did an experiment recently in which he split a batch into two 3-gallon
batches.  He dryhopped one half and added hop tea to the other.  The
results were very interesting.  After two or three days in the kegs, the
hop tea batch aroma was noticably stronger.  After an additional month,
the hop tea version had lost all of it's hop aroma and the dryhopped
version beat it hands down.  Both the 2-3 day tasting and 1-month
tasting were unanimous decisions by our club members.

***************
Jeff writes:
>6 lb pale
>3 lb klages
>1 lb dark crystal (caramunich)
>1 lb chocolate
>1 lb carapils
>1/4 lb black patent
>
>Near the end of the boil I also added 1 lb of dark brown sugar.
> OG 1072, FG 1021 (wyeast 1056).
>
>It has been in a soda keg after completing primary and secondary
> fermentation for at least 6 weeks.
>
>It has an overwhelming burnt taste to it!  The initial flavor is 
> strong malt and ETOH (and a lot of hops!) but the charcoal flavor
> that follows is enough to scare away my guests.  My question is 
> will this heavy roast flavor soften with age?  I am tempted to

I got this once from an all-extract (no specialty grains) batch.
It turns out that I scorched the malt in the kettle.  It never
went away.  I had it in a keg, so I just used it up to flavor some
under-flavored commercial brews.

********
Earle writes:
>characteristics.  Is there something I can add or delete to my brews that 
>would encourage more head?

Head retention is a function of small proteins and dextrins in your beer.
Crystal malt will add some dextrins and thus some head retention.  To
have control of your small proteins, you need to mash (although some
extracts may give you better head retention than others -- I don't know
which).  I've been speculating for about a year that the blowoff method
may reduce head retention by blowing off some of these small proteins.
Bill -- any data here?  Protein rests at the lower end (112-122F, I believe)
of the proteolytic range will turn your big proteins into amino acids,
whereas protein rests at the higher end (122-140F) will make less amino
acids, but more small proteins (better head).

*********
Earle also writes:
>I was playing with the hop utilization numbers to try and quantify the
>hoppiness of my last batch, and i realized that I had no clue as to the
>amount of hops in the canned extract.  Anyone have any general or specific

The Extract Special Issue of Zymurgy has a table that lists the hop rates
on many of the hopped extracts at that time (1986?).

Al.

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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 15:46:54 CST
From: nfarrell at ppco.com (Norman Farrell)
Subject: Good to the last drop.

With all the talk about getting extract out of the bag (in a box), I am
prompted to write about a procedure invented(?) by a Just Brew It club
member:

                    The "Chopstick Method"

1. Set the plastic bag-o-extract in a sinkful of hot water to soak.
2. Locate a set of chopsticks: nice or disposable, it matters not.
3. Cut/Slice open the top of the extract bag and pour into the ketttle
   as usual.
4. Hold the bag by the top two corners and have a helper position the
   two chopsticks one on each side of the bag up near where you are
   holding onto the bag. Make sure the opening points toward the kettle.
5. Next, your helper will press the two chopsticks together and draw the       
   pair of them down the length of the bag towards the kettle.  Stop, of
   course when you get down to the open end of the bag.

If done properly, you will have neatly extruded almost every drop of
extract and will not have it all over you, your helper, your kitchen
and the dog (or cat).

Thanks to Rob Dahlgren, inventor of the chopstick method.

Hope this is helpful.

Norman (nfarrell at ppco.com)

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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 93 14:56:25 PST
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Q: Kegging and Refrigeration

Sorry to post, but mail to Rich bounces:



>>>>> "Rich" == Rich Miani <miani at ibm1> writes:

Rich> thanks for the info re: the kegging faq ....

>> No, refrigeration is not necessary at all unless you do not like room
>> temperature beer.  I had a cooler for a while, but sold it when I
>> found out I liked room temp better.

Rich> What kind of cooler ($$,setup,etc) ? Also, would a frosted mug
Rich> do the trick ?  I don't like my beer ice cold, but I do like it
Rich> a little cooler than room temperature.

Rich> Thanks again,
Rich> Rich

I was able to pick up a *very* used commercial soda cooler for $50.
The kind which has sliding doors and is in stores or taco shops.  Not
anything one could normally get for $50.  A frosted mug might do the
trick, but again, I *like* my beer warm, so I have no data on that.

dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)455-5590x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Senior Software Engineer                      megatek!hollen at uunet.uu.net
Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California    ucsd!megatek!hollen

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1295, 12/11/93