FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  taxes / scottish malt / anchor X mas ale (Brian Bliss)
  honey-based starters (Re: beware of glycogen depletion) (Dick Dunn)
  Dry Hopping, Using Yeast from Primary (LUKASIK_D)
  Ipswich Ale (Jim Grady)
  In Defense of Sherlock's (cush)
  St. Louis Competition Results (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  Brew Pubs in Ft Lauderdale (ROBERT.URWILER)
  Re: Filtering (Jim Busch)
  DORIC Yeast anyone? ("when the cold winds blow, it'll ease your mind  10-Jan-1994 1035 -0500")
  no subject (file transmission) (Steve Scampini)
  computer controlled rims ("McCaw, Mike")
  Re: Sending Homebrew (George H. Leonard)
  sanitation (DAMON_NOEL/HP0800_01)
  Does HSA flavor go away with time ? (Dale L. Orth)
  Kitchenaid grain mill (Chris Amley - 3M Telecommunications)
  Poor Extraction (Marc Hugentobler)
  Bulk Grains Cheap? ("Stephen Schember")
  BURP CASTLE - NYC (tmr)
  Shipping Homebrew (Fred Waltman)
  mmm--tasty! (Mark Bunster)
  raspberry recipes wanted (COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L)
  Heeeeeeelp! ("THE FOURWHEELIN' 'TALIAN WANNABE JOKEMEISTER.")
  Why do you enter out of state competitions? (Bob Jones)
  Re:  Wort Chiller in ice bucket ("Christopher V. Sack")
  Potato Beer? (Scott Odell)
  First Time Dry Hoping (Bob W Surratt)
  three questions (sean v. taylor)
  Chocolate Porter Ferment Lag (WHEATON_JOHN/HPBOI1_03)


Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
  (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
  listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 02:21:52 -0600
From: bliss at pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss)
Subject: taxes / scottish malt / anchor X mas ale


"John L. Isenhour" <isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov> writes:
>in gestapo garb.  Grant had gotten written permission from atf to produce
>cider, which is not regulated/taxed (at least in that state, I guess) cause it
>ain't wine, it ain't beer.  But the atf now says they have to pay back taxes
>plus a fine, and the previous permission given by atf ment nothing.  Next thing

all alcohol is federally taxed, with the exception of cider.
apparrently when the started taxing liquor (how long ago was this ?),
they wanted to exempt small-time mom & pop roadside shops serving hard
cider from all the riagmoroll.  I don't see how grant's can pay back
taxes on something that's not taxed (federally, at least).

- ------------------------------

cmryglot at disney.CV.COM (Chuck Mryglot X6024) writes:
>I have seen a few recipies which call for some Scottish or 
>Scots  malt.   Does anyone out there know what this is and 
>how it relates to other malts.

According to Noonan ("Scotch Ale"):
"The Scottish malts were sprouted more slowly because of the lower
ambient temp...  Roger Martin of Baired's Station Maltings in Essex
gives [a value of] 6-8 EBC (3-4 SRM) for Scottish Pale, as opposed
to 4-6 EBC (2-3 SRM) for todays English Pale malt."

Are SRM units the same as Lovibond ?

- ------------------------------

jennings at readmore.com (Todd Jennings) writes:
>Subject: Anchor X-mas
>
>In HBD#1317, Jonathan Knight notes the distinctive differences in taste 
>between this year's Anchor Brewing Co holiday product and those of prior 
>years.
>
>Jonathan you are right on!!  I thought it was just me!  I do not, in 
>fact, have a sharp enough tongue to distinguish the special ingredients 
>of this year's blend.  But I too, noticed a distinctive drop off in, 
>shall we say, it's overall appeal.  My opinion is that 1991's is the best 

I just finished my last bottle.  This year's includes spruce essence.
Most spruce brews I've tasted (not that many) have tasted absolutely
horrid at near-freezing temps, but are great once you let them warm
up a little.  1993 Anchor X-mas ale is no exception.

bb


Return to table of contents


Date: 10 Jan 94 01:31:37 MST (Mon)
From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: honey-based starters (Re: beware of glycogen depletion)

fmicos!trojan!crowell at uunet.UU.NET (Paul Crowell) writes:
> tony at spss.com: (Tony Babinec) writes in  HBD #1248:
   [description of yeast glycogen-depletion causes and effects]
> >All the more reason to build up yeast in some starter wort
> >before pitching into your beer.

>   I'm responding because the beer's I've brewed recently have had a
> *very* strong, yeasty background flavor.

>   The *single* variable at this point has been my introduction of
> starters which I've just started making using clover honey...

Why use honey as a starting medium?
(OK, it's fair to reply, "Why not?")

Honey (light honey in particular) tends not to have a lot of anything other
than simple sugars.  But, as I mentioned in an earlier note, looking at it
from a different aspect (what yeast to use for mead), my experience is
making me believe that some yeasts, particularly beer/ale yeasts, are just
not suitable for mead.  They produce an off taste in the young mead that
takes a long time to age out.  I certainly don't have conclusive evidence
for this--it's just that, so far, certain yeasts have given me trouble
every time I've used them in meads, while others produce consistently good
results.  So perhaps you're experiencing the same effect from your honey-
based starters with ale yeasts as I'm seeing with mead-making and certain
classes of yeast?

>...I've had
> consistently bad results in light beers with these starters, but
> darker stouts/steam beers seem to be just fine...

Can you be sure that there's an actual difference, as opposed to just the
effect of darker/stronger beers masking the off-taste?  (Is it obvious
enough that you'd know?)
 ---
Dick Dunn    rcd at eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd    Boulder, Colorado USA
   ...Simpler is better.

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 08:22:31 -0500 (EST)
From: LUKASIK_D at sunybroome.edu
Subject: Dry Hopping, Using Yeast from Primary

On my fourth batch I decided to try dry hopping (it is an IPA) for aroma.
Could someone let me know if I am following standard/proper procedures for
this as I can not find anything in TCJOHB to give me directions.  I racked
from the primary to the secondary but before doing so ground up 1/2 oz of
Cascade into fine particles and paced it into the bottom of the secondary.
The problem as I see it is that 1) there is a chance of contamination due
to no boiling of the hops, and 2) all of the hops floated to the top of the
carboy as it was filling which made a mess of the carboy neck and doesn't 
appear to get full utilization of what I put in.  We bottled the beer this 
weekend and it seems fine (tasty actually).  Am I doing this correctly???

Secondly, although I know this has been discussed (i missed some of it), can
anyone give me step by step procedures for reusing yeast that comes out of 
the primary or secondary?  What are the problems that may occur?  How many 
times can you repitch the same yeast culture?  How can you store the yeast
and for how long.  I have just recently started using liquid yeasts and if 
possible would like to get a little more millage out of them.

Thanks in advance.

Dlug

Doug
SodBuster Suds

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 9:02:55 EST
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Ipswich Ale

This is probably only of interest to those in Boston's North Shore area
but I don't know how extensive their distribution really is:

I just bought some Ipswich Ale yesterday (it comes in a 1/2 gal.
'growler') and there is a significant yeast sediment on the bottom, ~
1/16 of an inch.  Has anybody brewed with it?  It certainly is a lot
more yeast than I get in a Wyeast packet.  If you return the bottle, is
only $1 more AND you get a 1/2 gal of pretty tasty ale too!  I'll
probably try it in a Porter this weekend but was wondering if anyone out
there had any more info on it.
- --
Jim Grady              |"Immediately after Orville Wright's historic 12 second
grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com | flight, his luggage could not be located."
                       |                        S. Harris

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 08:34:48 -0600 (CST)
From: cush at msc.edu
Subject: In Defense of Sherlock's

Mark Fryling comments:

>First, thanks to all those who sent info on places for good brew in the twin
>cities to me last month.  I made it to Sherlock's Home for dinner and a pint
>and managed to stop by Surdyks on my way to the airport.  Sherlock's is a nice
>brewpub with good food though I found their beer lacking a certain oomph.

Though my reply is a little out of place in this forum, I feel obliged to
defend my home turf  :-)

Sherlock's is a British-style brewpub.  As such, their ales are cask-
conditioned, not highly carbonated, and hand pulled with a beer engine.  
Also, all of their ales are relatively low OG (i.e. 1.040-1.046) - which
is also in the British style, as has been noted by several recent postings
to this forum (most notably by Bob Jones).

If the beers lack a certain oomph, it is because the style lacks a certain
oomph, at lease by high-alcohol American Ale standards. (though how Sherlock's
bitter, with  at 40 IBU's, lacks 'oomph', I do not know.... :-)  )
- -- 
	> Cushing Hamlen			|	cush at msc.edu
	> Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Inc.	|	612/337-3505

Return to table of contents


Date: 10 Jan 94 14:22:18 GMT
From: cssc!cong at scuzzy.attmail.com (brew )
Full-Name: brew

Subject: PET Beer transport?

	Has anyone ever taken homebrew on an airliner?
	I am planning a ski trip to Colorado this February and plan
	to bring some homebrew.  I was considering using PET bottles for the
	simplicity and saftey.  Will they stand up to the pressure
	changes at 37,000 feet in a presurized cabin?  Has anyone
	taken them in the unpressurized baggage compartment?  Will they freeze?
	Should I allow for expansion in filling?  I counterpressure bottle
	off of keg's so I have filling options.


	cong


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 09:00:59 -0600
From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Subject: St. Louis Competition Results

Here are the results.  This has already been posted to r.c.brewing.

	t




  The St. Louis Brews
  1993 Happy Holidays Homebrew Competition Report
  by Matt Crowley

  On December 18th, 1993, the St.  Louis Brews held its annual Happy
  Holidays Homebrew Competition in St.  Louis, Missouri.  The competition
  is officially sanctioned by the AHA (American Homebrewers Association).

  Total number of entries:                                 139
	  St. Louis Brews members' entries:  71,  others':  68
	  Awards given:  55 (includes Best of Show)
		  (31 all-grain, 14 grain & extract, 7 extract)

  Entries by category; number of entries is posted at the right of the
  styles (some combined):

- ------ Barleywine ---------------------------- 3
- ------ English and Scottish Strong Ales ------ 3
Score range:    14 - 41
  3rd     Greg Leas -- English Old Ale               (St. Charles, MO)
  2nd     Greg Leas -- Barleywine                    (St. Charles, MO)
  1st     David & Melinda Brockington -- Barleywine  (Seattle, WA)

- ------ Belgian-Style Specialties ------------- 12
Score range:    18-44
3rd     Richard Soennichsen -- Strong Ale (San Francisco, CA)
2nd     Tom Rogers -- Trippel             (Crestwood, MO)
1st     Roy Paris -- Lambic               (Chesterfield, MO)

- ------ Brown Ales ---------------------------- 6
Score range:    20.5 - 37
3rd     Jack Baty -- American Brown Ale    (St. Louis, MO)
2nd     Matt Crowley -- American Brown Ale (St. Louis, MO)
1st     Matt Henry -- American Brown Ale   (Overland, MO)

- ------ English Pale Ales --------------------- 8
- ------ California Common Beer ---------------- 2
Score Range:    26 - 42
3rd     Andrew T. Fineberg -- India Pale Ale   (Seattle, WA)
2nd     Patrick Delozier -- India Pale Ale     (Kansas City, MO)
1st     Dennis Davison -- Classic English Pale (Greenfield, WI)

- ------ American Pale Ales -------------------- 7
Score range:    7 - 45
** no 2nd or 3rd place award given **   
1st     Andrew T. Fineberg -- American Pale  (Seattle, WA)

- ------ English Bitters & Scottish Ales ------- 5
Score range:    14 - 36.5
3rd     David & Melinda Brockington -- English Extra Special (Seattle, WA)
2nd     Marvin Crippen -- Eng. Extra Special                 (Seattle, WA)
1st     George Fix -- English Extra Special                  (Arlington, TX)

- ------- Porter ------------------------ 13
Score range:    20 - 40
3rd     Bill Batzer -- Robust Porter      (O'Fallon, MO)
2nd     Bruce Barratt    -- Robust Porter (Florissant, MO)
1st     Tom Barkman -- Brown Porter       (Manchester, MO)

- ------ Stout ------------------------- 13
Score range:    23 - 43
3rd     Joshua Dowling -- Imperial Stout       (St. Louis, MO)
2nd     George Fix -- Classic Dry Stout        (Arlington, TX)
1st     Patric Delozier -- Foreign Style Stout (Kansas City, MO)

- ------ Bock -------------------------- 6
Score range:    13 - 48
3rd     Greg Leas -- Helles (Light) Bock      (St. Charles, MO)
2nd     Jerry Mitchell -- Helles (Light) Bock (Seattle, WA)
1st     Dennis Davison -- Eisbock             (Greenfield, WI)

- ------ Bavarian Dark ----------------- 1
- ------ Dortmund/Export --------------- 1
- ------ Munich Helles ----------------- 1
- ------ German-Style Ale -------------- 1
Score range:    29 - 43
3rd     John Sterling & Phil Davis -- Munich Helles  (St. Louis, MO)
2nd     Tim Fahrner & Mike Biondo -- Dortmund/Export (St. Louis, MO)
1st     John Sterling & Phil Davis -- Bavarian Dark (Munich Dunkel)
	(St. Louis, MO)

- ------ American Dark ----------------- 1
- ------ American Light Lager ---------- 4
Score range:    29 - 44
3rd     George Fix -- American Premium    (Arlington, TX)
2nd     Greg Jevyak -- American Wheat     (Florissant, MO)
1st     Richard Rone -- American Standard (St. Louis, MO)

- ------ Classic Pilsener -------------- 6
Score range:    19 - 36
3rd     Greg Jevyak -- Bohemian Pilsener   (Florissant, MO)
2nd     Tom Clifton -- German Pilsener     (Kirkwood, MO)
1st     Richard Johnson -- German Pilsener (Frontenac, KS)

- ------ Vienna/Oktoberfest/Marzen ----- 4
Score range:    22 - 34
3rd     Roll Heyerly -- Marzen/Oktoberfest       (Ossian, IN)
2nd     Bill Batzer -- Marzen/Oktoberfest        (O'Fallon, MO)
1st     Ginger Wotring & Gary Heinlein -- Vienna (St. Louis, MO)

- ------ Fruit Beer -------------------- 8
Score range:    24 - 42
3rd     John Isenhour -- Cherry Imperial Stout (Aurora, IL)
2nd     Ginger Wotring -- Mulberry Ale         (St. Louis, MO)
1st     John Sterling -- Cherry Fruit Beer     (St. Louis, MO)

- ------ Herb Beer --------------------- 3
Score range:    20 - 31
** no 3rd place award given **
2nd     Dave Himrich -- Nutmeg/Cinnamon /Ginger/Cloves Ale
	(St. Charles, MO)
1st     John Isenhour -- Tea/Uzuza/Coriander /Orange Peel Belgian White
	(Aurora, IL)

- ------ Specialty Beer ---------------- 4
Score range:    25 - 40
3rd     Tim Bell -- Honey/Orange Peels /Cinnamon/Ginger Ale (Hensley, AR)
2nd     Dennis Davison -- Clover Honey Barley Wine          (Greenfield, WI)
1st     Jerry Mitchell -- Cocoa Porter                      (St. Peters, MO)

- ------ Wheat Beer (Ale) ------------- 13
Score range:    18 - 40
3rd     Roy Paris -- German Weizen   (Chesterfield, MO)
2nd     Greg Leas -- Dunkelweizen    (St. Charles, MO)
1st     Bill Batzer -- German Weizen (O'Fallon, MO)

- ------ Traditional Mead -------------- 3
- ------ Melomel/Pyment/Cyser/Metheglin- 4
Score range:    21 - 41
3rd     Celeste Henry -- Still Flavored Mead (Zinfandel Concentrate)
	(Overland, MO)
2nd     Matt Henry -- Still Flavored Mead (Bing Cherries)
	(Overland, MO)
1st     Jerry Dahl & Tom Finan -- Still Flavored Mead (Blackberries)
	(Kirkwood, MO)

- ------ Christmas Brau ---------------- 7
Score range:    19 - 39
3rd     Paul Wenz -- Holiday Beer      (St. Louis, MO)
2nd     Ginger Wotring -- Holiday Beer (St. Louis, MO)
1st     Tom Leith -- Holiday Beer      (St. Louis, MO)

+----------------------------------------------+
|Best of Show Award:     Dennis Davison        |
|                        Greenfield, WI        |
|                        "Ice is Nice" Eisbock |
+----------------------------------------------+

  Members from the following homebrew clubs supported our competition with
  entries:
	Arkansas Home Wine and Beer Makers Assocation
	Beer Barons of Milwaukee
	Bloatarian Brewing League
	Cedar Rapids Area Zymurgy Yeastology ("CRAZY")
	Chicago Beer Society
	Kansas City Biermeisters
	Michiana Omnifarious Nomadic Kraueseners & Spargers ("MONKS")
	Monterey Beer Nuts
	North Texas Homebrewers
	St. Louis Brews
	Seattle Secret Skinny Brewers
	Wells County Homebrew Club


Return to table of contents


Date: 10 Jan 94 09:33:08-0500
From: ROBERT.URWILER at sprint.sprint.com
Subject: Brew Pubs in Ft Lauderdale


I will soon be in Ft Lauderdale for a week and wonder if anyone out there
has experienced any decent brew pubs in the area (?)  Any advice would
be most appreciated!

Thanks,

Bob Urwiler
ROBERT.URWILER at sprint.sprint.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 10:28:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Filtering

> From: "Taylor Standlee" <standlee at humanitas.ucsb.edu>
> Subject: Filtration (w. diatomaceous earth) & Mashing FAQ
> 
> 
> 1)
> Recently I visited a brewpub in San Luis Obispo (Calif.) where they filter
> their ales through diatomaceous earth.  I asked the kid behind the bar
> about this and got the "ya would'n understand, its technical" typical of
> people busy behind counters, which then changed to "Actaully,
> I don't really understand it I'll have to ask the brewmeister"
> after I convinced him I would indeed "undertand".  Unfortunatly, the
> brewmeister was not in and I had to get back on the road, so I still don't
> understand it.  Does anyone have any information on this type of filter
> system; or any other that they use and are satisfied with.  We really want
> to start filtering our beers for keging without loosing character.

I have had great success using a 5 micron polypro cartridge filter.  I 
just filtered 3 corn. kegs of Mt. Hood strong ale, and the filtered beer
was quickly judged vastly superior to the unfiltered, by my biased panel
of homebrew quaffers.  DE filters make a lot of sense for big brewers, 
but I feel it is out of place for 99+% of the homebrewing folks.  The
DE is not very user friendly, it should be handled with respirator masks,
and requires a fairly complex filtering setup.  DE must be "precoated" on
the filtering plate, so some means of recircing the turbid beer is required.
I can assure you that losing character is not an issue with a coarse 5
micron filter, but it can be a issue when micro-filtering.

I have found a bulk supplier of FDA 5 micron polypro filters.  The cost is
about 1/3 of retail.  Problem: minimum order is 30!  Anyone in netland want
to get in on a co-op purchase?


Jim Busch

"DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!"

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 10:38:47 EST
From: "when the cold winds blow, it'll ease your mind 10-Jan-1994 1035 -0500" <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: DORIC Yeast anyone?

Anyone use DORIC yeast?  I reckon this is the name.  I just picked some
up from my local shop.  It is dry yeast in 5 gm packets.  I bought 3 of
them and rehydrated.  Got a pretty fast start.  I'm interested in seeing
how well it attenuates w.r.t. EDME and whitbred dry.  Anyone else use this
stuff?  Results?

JC Ferguson

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 10:50:35 EST
From: Steve Scampini <scampini at hp-and.an.hp.com>
Subject: no subject (file transmission)

To Worry, wait or to take action:

This is my first homebrew batch ever.  It has been in the bottles
for six (6) days.  The first two bottles I opened have very
little carbonation.  The facts are:

* Extract kit, "American Steam Beer".
* One week in primary, three weeks in secondary.
* Fermented at about 52 degrees F.
* When bottled, very little in any bubbles from the airlock.
* Beer tastes good (if not pretty darn good) but is flat and a little on
the sweet side (unfermented sugars, including primer?).
* Bottles filled to 1/2 inch of top and sitting at about 52 degrees F.
* Primed with 3/4 cup corn sugar in boiled (cooled) water.
* Kit says it produces 5 gallons but I got about 4 gallons (I was
not to careful about adding water after the boil).
* Did not take hydrometer readings (I know I should and will keep
better notes next time...I promise).  There is alchohol in there
based on my internal hydrometer.

If I were given to worrying, I might think:

* Little or no yeast in bottles (yeast settled out very well in
secondary).
* I killed the critters (but how?).
* I've introduced a CO2 sucking infection which eats bubbles and
flattens beer (I bet pond scum would do the trick, though there
is very little of this in my kitchen since the fire).
* I am impatient and should wait one full month (Miller
in his book says that the CO2 forms very quickly but takes time
to dissolve in beer.  It is hard to believe the little psssst sound
when I open the bottles in all the CO2 that is needed waiting around
to dissolve.  How long does it take for the priming sugar to ferment?

Should I:
* Wait and not worry and have a store-bought (this is my first batch).
* Store the bottles at a warmer temp, say 65 F.(what, if any, dangers).
* Buy more yeast, make a starter, pry caps off and eye-dropper in
some yeast and recap (court of last resort).
* Scrub down the walls of my kitchen and wash the curtains in bleach?

Just a little "relax, it will be alright" from my learned, more 
experienced digesters may be all I need (this is in fact what my
learned colleague and fellow worker, Jim Grady has offered).

Steve Scampini

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 08:22:00 PST
From: "McCaw, Mike" <mccaw at wdni.com>
Subject: computer controlled rims


Hi all
This is my first post, and I'm not completely sure our gateway is fully 
functional, so here's hoping!
Reading the Rims Summary in Docs on Sierra, one post in the thread really 
intrigued me.  I have build the standard Morris Rims unit, and the 
temperature control (esp calibration of same) is the big problem.  On 
1/24/92, a Dave Pike posted an alternative approach using a Motorola 68hc11. 
 The details were too sketchy for me (a non-EE) to figure out.  I sent E 
mail to his address, but no joy.  Maybe he's no longer there, maybe our 
gateway is ####### again.
Has anyone built his device?  Does anyone have at least a conceptual diagram 
with pin numbers?  I'd love to build it and report on it, if only I could 
get some guidance.
Thanks in advance,
Mike McCaw

Return to table of contents


Date: 10 Jan 1994 17:40:11 GMT
From: George_Leonard at brown.edu (George H. Leonard)
Subject: Re: Sending Homebrew


In regards to sending homebrew through the mail....I don't know either but
would assume it is a no-no.

Along those lines,does anyone know if its legal to bring homebrew on a
commercial airline flight? I want to bring some of my latest batch to my
father-in-law but don't want the security guys to confiscate it while going
through the metal detector (thinking the unlabelled bottles are filled with
gasoline or such). It would be a shame to waste that much effort! Anyone
know?

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 11:31:00 -0700
From: DAMON_NOEL/HP0800_01 at mailhub.cs.itc.hp.com
Subject: sanitation

While trying not to worry, sanitizing my counterflow chiller is still a
concern.  I have been running sanitizer through it prior to each batch
with no rinse, but over time imagine a material build up in it not removed
by a simple rinse afterwards.  I have been daunted by the propect of adequate
rinse following use of hydroxide flush, so have not tried that.  But the
thought occurred to me, why not just run the boiling wort through for a
bit before turning on the cold water flow?  The immediate question is how
to avoid HSA?  If the wort were collected with minimum splash and then
put back to reheat prior to final cooling would that be too much oxygen?
George how much is too much? Has anyone else tried this?

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 11:07:28 -0600
From: Dale L. Orth <orth at fozzie.chem.wisc.edu>
Subject: Does HSA flavor go away with time ?

I recently brewed a batch of Papazian's Monkey's Paw Brown Ale. It 
has an off flavor which I am not sure of, so I am asking for help.  
This is only my 5th batch, but it is the first one I am having real 
trouble drinking.  The flavor started as sort of a metallic flavor, 
and now I _might_ describe it as the infamous wet 
cardboard flavor, except I've never tasted wet cardboard.  The 
fermentation seemed to go normally and I did a secondary rack for 
about 2 weeks before bottling. I don't think it is an infection.  
I used Edme yeast. 
I didn't do anything to treat the water. NOW I have a water report 
telling me (in short)
pH        7.56
Calcium     82 ppm
Magnesium   48 ppm 
Alkalinity 291 ppm
Sulfate	    59 ppm
While this wasn't the most grains I had mashed before, it was my first
actual all-grain batch,so I suspect water may be playing a more 
important role.  The flavor _is_ mellowing a bit, but slowly.
Any guesses to what caused this? Basically do you think it was the
water (any suggestions on how people would treat this water are
greatly appreciated), or do you think it was oxidation? Further, if
it were oxidation (or HSA) would that go away with time, as this seems
to be doing? 
Thanks alot for any advice or comments.
					Dale L. Orth
					orth at chem.wisc.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 10:50:38 -0600
From: ccamley at mmm.com (Chris Amley - 3M Telecommunications)
Subject: Kitchenaid grain mill


My wife and I have decided to replace our 1950's vintage Mixmaster 
with something that runs on electricity.  We noticed the Kitchenaid 
line has a grain mill attachment, but there were no details 
available at the store.  Does anyone know whether this is
suitable for use in mashing?

Thanks,
Chris



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 10:56 -0600 (MDT)
From: Marc Hugentobler <MARHUG at TELECOM.USU.EDU>
Subject: Poor Extraction

Hey compadres,

Got a little problem with my extraction at sparge. I usually do either single
or step-infusion mash and always iodine test for conversion. I have full
conversion as far as I can tell but my OG is around 1.030 instead of 1.040
etc. It is routinely down by about that factor.

Am I fudging something critical at sparge or mash?  Any Ideas? The beer is
great it just isn't as full bodied as it should be. Thanks in advance.

Marc

Return to table of contents


Date: 10 Jan 1994 11:50:44 -0500
From: "Stephen Schember" <stephen_schember at terc.edu>
Subject: Bulk Grains Cheap?

                      Subject:                              Time:  11:28 AM
  OFFICE MEMO         Bulk Grains Cheap?                    Date:  1/10/94
I got a Corona mill for Christmas and am looking for a good (read cheap) source
of grain. I'm mainly interested in Brit Pale Ale in 20 ->55 pound bags. I'd
prefer someplace in Eastern Mass. but if anyone knows of a place that that sends
it cheap let me know. The prices I've seen are about $62 /55lbs. I would
especially like to know about Otis Maris (?) Brit Pale malt, I know this is the
stuff they use to make Thomas Hardy(yum).
Either send resposes to me, stephen_schember at terc.edu, or post em.
Hey how 'bout a grain faq (brand specific like that great yeast one) ? 
 -thanks in advance
Steve



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 11:12:25 EST
From: tmr at fjtld.att.com
Subject: BURP CASTLE - NYC

On a recent trip to New York City over the holidays, I was pleasantly
surprised to find an interesting bar called "Burp Castle".  A sign on
the window proclaims it to be the "Temple of Beer Worship".  It is operated
by the "Brewist Monks".  These guys, who are the bartender and waiters,
walk around in brown, floor-length monk's robes with ropes tied around
the waist.

All they serve is draft beer at a rather steep price of about $5.00 for
a 16 oz. glass which isn't too bad for NYC.  Some of the brews on-tap are
Old Foghorn, Paulaner Hefe-weiss, Pete's Wicked Ale, Pilsner Urquel and
Sierra Nevada Christmas Ale.  Some very tasty brews.

The walls are all covered with hand painted scenes of the Middle Ages and
there are signs up everywhere proclaiming "No Loud Talking - Whispering
Only".  Of course, loud talking and boisterous beer drinking prevailed.

If you are in NYC, I would recommend stopping in here for a cold one.  Their
address is 41 East 7th Street and phone is (212) 982-4576.

Another neat place is right next door called "Brewski's".  I didn't stop in,
but it looked like a beer drinkers paradise of unique and exotic bottled
and canned beers.

DISCLAIMER: I have nothing to do with either of these establishments.



					Tom Romalewski

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 09:34:45 -0800 (PST)
From: waltman at netcom.com (Fred Waltman)
Subject: Shipping Homebrew

In HBD #1320 someone asks about mailing homebrew:

It is my understanding that you cannot MAIL homebrew. I have had no problems,
however, using UPS to SHIP homebrew. I regularly send a 12 bottle box to by
dad and various other relatives.

I am on a regular UPS route and therefor don't have to tell them the contents
of my box. If you drop your shipment off at a UPS office or use a third party
shipper (ie. Mail Box Etc., Mail Box Plus, and the like) they may ask you
the contents. I have heard of people who have had their beer refused by 
the clerks. They told me that they list the contents as "yeast cultures" 
or "brewing supplies"

I also place each bottle in 1 gal ziplock bag as insurance, but I have not
had any leaks in 10+ shipments.

- -- Fred Waltman
Marina del Rey, CA
waltman at netcom.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 15:39:18 EST
From: mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu (Mark Bunster)
Subject: mmm--tasty!

* First let me thank everyone who helped me with suppliers and various other
* things so I could get my first brew of the ground.  
                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It must have some beautiful earth tones--let us know what the Lovibond 
color turns out to be! Good old dirt beer....

anyway, I have an actual question (new) and an old question (unanswered):

What can be said of an "Ur-Maerzen"? (My Deutsch tells me "very Maerzen", but
that doesn't help much.) Spaten claims this on their Oktoberfest.

And what's the proper lagering temp for bottled lagers (eg a nice tasty bock
that is still quite flat but has a wondermous chocolate flavor)? 

Thanking you

- -- 
Mark Bunster                      |Exchange conversation if you dare-- 
Survey Research Lab--VCU          |Share an empty thought or a laugh.
Richmond, VA 23220                |
mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu            |
(804) 367-8813/353-1731           |                          -edFROM

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 12:47:36 -0500 (EST)
From: COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L at Lilly.com
Subject: raspberry recipes wanted

I have a brewfriend who wants to brew a raspberry beer. I will forward 
all recipes on to him. Does anyone have a favorite to share with me?
Please send them to COCKERHAM at LILLY.COM
I recently kegged my first all grain batch. It wasn't that hard!! I
made a strong ale (O.G. 1.077). It turned out nicely. I used the 5 gal
Igloo cooler approach with a colander trimmed to fit inside for a false
bottom. I plan to brew a pale ale this week. 
Thanks for all the great ideas and "fun to read arguments" in the HBD!
Sandy C.


From: COCKERHAM SANDRA L            (MCVAX0::RX31852)

To:   VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE            (IN::"homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com")

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 17:41:56 -0500 (EST)
From: "THE FOURWHEELIN' 'TALIAN WANNABE JOKEMEISTER." <AD75173%LTUVAX.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Heeeeeeelp!

I have another problem (I think) with my latest beer.

I thought I had a yeast infection in my last beer (Righteous Real Ale from
Papazian's book), but I have the same thing going on with my latest, and have
been very sanitary.  I used Papazian's Doctor Bock (P. 203 TNCJoH) and added
1/2 lb of chocolate malt for a darker color.  I used 1.5oz and .5oz of Tettang.
hops.  My first two beers turned out great, but the last two have acted the
same.  The difference?  In the last two I used grains for coloring.

        Here's what I did:  I put the choc. malt in a malt bag, and worked
like a tea bag until the water started to boil.  I put the malt syrup into
the pot, and boiled 45 min.  I set it outside (20F) OH! Could that be my
problem with yeast infection?  The lid was only open a little.  After it
cooled,I mixed the wort with water to make 5gal.  I let it ferment, half in one
5gal bucket, and 5gal in another.  Yeast was pitched.

Here's what happened:  3 Jan 94    1.063  at  65F  (pitched yeast)
                       15 hours    Bubbles begin
                       48 hours    Bubbles stop, rack to carboy. 1.028
                       3 days      1 bubble/minute
                       5 days      1 bubble/36 sec
                       6 days      1 bubble/22 sec
                       7 days      1 bubble/18 sec

When the beer was first in the carboy, it seemed almost clear burnt amber,
but now its more cloudy with the more active fermentation.

Question:   Yeast infection?

Thanks much...    Aaron

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 15:24:06 +0800
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Why do you enter out of state competitions?

Why do brewers enter out of state competitions, I'm speaking of non-national 
competitions? I'm sincerly interested, the Bay Area Brewoff always gets 
entries from far far away. Reasons that occur to me are...

* No local competitions (hard to believe).
* Poor quality judges at local competitions (also hard to believe).
* Curious about how other states judges feel about your beer?
* Ego, need more ribbons.
* More money than brains.
* Fill in the blank.

Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 1994 17:56:38 -0500 (EST)
From: "Christopher V. Sack" <cvsack at mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Re:  Wort Chiller in ice bucket

On Monday, Jan 10,1994, Bob Eddy wrote:

> I have been considering various approaches to wort chilling and have come
> up with an idea I haven't yet seen discussed on the net.  My idea is to
> construct an immersion chiller in reverse.  The conventional immersion
> chiller, of course, runs chilled water through a copper coil which has been
> immersed in the hot wort until the desired temperature is reached.  My idea
> is to reverse the process by immersing the copper coil in an ice bath and
> running the hot wort through the coil.  I feel this would yield excellent
> heat transfer.
> 
> Construction would consist of a bucket (or other container) with entry and
> exit ports at the top and bottom of the bucket.  The copper coil would be
> placed inside the bucket and connected to the entry/exit ports.  (See
> diagram below - a little imagination will help here!)
> 
>                        I                   I
>                        I- - - - - - - - - -I
>                        I     ice bath      I<---bucket
>         Hot wort       I                   I
>         from boiler -->I>----------------\ I
>                        I /---------------/ I
>                        I \----copper-----\ I
>                        I /-----coil------/ I    X      Cold wort to
>                        I \---------------->I>---I----> primary fermenter
>                        I                   I  valve
>                        I___________________I
> 
> To use the device, the bucket is filled with a mixture of ice and water
> (mostly ice).  The output from the boiler is connected to the upper (entry)
> port.  Gravity pulls the wort through the coil and out the lower (exit)
> port and off to the primary fermenter.  The flow rate through the coil is
> controlled by adjusting the valve on the exit port.  This, in turn,
> controls the exit temperature of the wort.  Additional ice is added to the
> bucket as required.
> 
> ... Some text deleted ...

My boss and I (both of us are chemists) talked about this very type of 
cooler.  Our reasons were the same as Bob's.  Easy, good heat transfer etc

We then did some quick, "back of the envelope" type calculations and 
discovered that one would need at least 80# of ice to cool a 5 gal. batch 
from boiling to 15 deg.C (60 deg.F).  We did not take into account that 
the wort contained a high concentration of sugar.  This would increase 
the density of the liquid and also increase its heat capacity, ie. one 
would need even more than 80# of ice.  

I ended up building an inexpensive (less that $15) counter current cooler.

Chris 
   +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
   |      ___            ___                        Christopher V. Sack |
   |     /   )  |    /  /   )         |              Graduate Student   |
   |    /       |   /  (___   __   __ |             Dept. of Chemistry  |
   |   /        |  /       ) __ ) /  )|  /          State Univ. of N.Y. |
   |  /         | /       / /  / /    | /           Syracuse, NY  13210 |
   | (____/*    |/* (____/ (__\ (__/  |/ \         <cvsack at lor.syr.edu> |
   +--------------------------------------------------------------------+ 
 




Return to table of contents


Date:         Mon, 10 Jan 94  18:06:30 EST
From: Scott Odell <MAH0C01 at SIVM.SI.EDU>
Subject:      Potato Beer?

In the Dec-Jan issue of Ale Street News there is a note that Denver's
Wyncoop Brewing Co. "using 180 pounds of Colorado potatoes ... has brewed
500 gallons of ... a crisp, clean lager style ale, similar to a pilsner."
Comments anyone?  Is there a reasonably accessible published source of info
on potato beers?  A brewing friend of mine without INTERNET access had, by
coincidence, asked me recently about potato beer and how the potato starch
was converted to sugar.  I was at a loss to advise him on the proper malting of
 potatoes!  Or, is some other source of an appropriate enzyme used?


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 16:10:04 PST
From: Bob W Surratt <Bob_W_Surratt at ccm.hf.intel.com>
Subject: First Time Dry Hoping


Text item: Text_1

     I have a question concerning dry hopping.  After fermenting for 7 
     days, my ale was down to a bubble every 2.5 minutes.  I racked to 
     the secondary and added come whole leaf hops.  The ale almost 
     immediately started out gassing.  It's now been in the secondary 
     for 8 days and I'm still getting a bubble every 30 seconds.
     
     My question is, do I wait until the bubbling slows down with the 
     hops and ale together, or should I rack the ale off of the hops 
     into my bottling carboy and wait.  I just don't want to bottle to 
     early and create any bottle bombs.
     
     Thanks in advance,
     
     Bob Surratt  Orangevale, CA

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 19:08:51 EST
From: sean v. taylor <sean at chemres.tn.cornell.edu>
Subject: three questions



Greetings all,

        I had a chance to talk to one of my old friends (and
 a homebrewer) over the holidays and we were talking about
 dry hopping.  He mentioned that it might be interesting to
 try bottle hopping--that is, adding hops (one or two leaves,
 perhaps) directly to the bottle.
        Has anybody heard of or tried this before?  Outside of possible
 contamination from the hops, would it add some negative aspect to the
 beer that we aren't considering?
 	On another note, I was wondering about culturable/non-culturable
 commercial brews.  That is, has somebody compiled a list of commercial
 brews which one can get the yeast out of?  I mean, I know of some, and
 trial and error could work, but is there a definitive list floating 
 around out there?
	Finally, I live in balmy Ithaca, NY, where its been getting
 down below zero at night.  My housemate left a six of Saranac Black 
 and Tan on the back porch, and of course it froze.  This got me to 
 wondering:  What does freezing beer like this do to it?  None of the
 bottles exploded, so I'll probably try and drink them to see for myself,
 but I was wondering if there was some study or discussion of this 
 previously which I missed.

                                        Just Wondering...

                                                Sean Taylor


Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 10 Jan 94 17:38:00 -0700
From: WHEATON_JOHN/HPBOI1_03 at hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
Subject: Chocolate Porter Ferment Lag

I just brewed up a batch of choc. porter for the 2nd time and I have experienced
very late starting fermentations.   I pitch a healthy starter that is no differe
nt from what I usually pitch.  In fact, this one was a 2nd pitch from a
currently fermenting batch of golden ale (ie. very healthy and active).

I thought my 1st chocololate porter was a fluke but now I am concerned about
the chocolate impact on fermentation.   In a 5 gallon batch I used 8 oz of
Hershey's cocoa and 8 oz. of unsweetened baker's chocolate.   This was
added in the last 30 min. of the boil.   It is also an all-grain.

Any of the same experiences from you people?!  I actually started worrying
there after 24 hrs with no activity.  It is now merrily fermenting actively at
36 hrs and smells fine and normal.

Any clues here? Is there something in the chocolate?

jw


Return to table of contents



End of HOMEBREW Digest #1321, 01/11/94