FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Setting up a competition / HBD back log (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  Microwave for Sterilization (WLK.Wbst311)
  Brewing Supplies in SLC ? (x-4851)" <Geiser at po1.rb.unisys.com>
  yeast starter -- yes (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  blowing off / steam / etc. (Allan Rubinoff)
  Questions/Answers/Comments (Marc L. Goldfarb)
  Competition Notice (korz)
  Micro-Breweries in Birmingham,AL (Brian K Hill)
  Re: chilling (TODD CARLSON)
  Quest for Marris Otter Malt (Gary S. Kuyat)
  Dr. Fix's Beer Color Article (1 of 2) (Gary S. Kuyat)
  Dr. Fix's Beer Color Article (2 of 2) (Gary S. Kuyat)
  Marzen (John Robinson)
  twice-a-day HBD (Jonathan G Knight)
  DME Priming/1st batch (korz)
  Stout & Smithwicks(Ab Gauthier) (Albert Gauthier - iccad)
  Comments on my bottle sanitizing comments (Keith MacNeal  17-Jan-1994 1714)
  wny brew supplies (Beth)
  Followup/Answers to "Ideas on fermenter heaters for mead making?" ("Victor Grigorieff")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 10:30:59 EST
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com
Subject: Setting up a competition / HBD back log

To the poster that thought running a competition would be fun and easy.
It isn't, its a lot of work, picking up the beer, storing it correctly
getting a facility to accomodate judging.  Then there is the issue of
experienced judges.  The entrants deserve competent, AHA BJCP, approved
judges, you will need at least a dozen, you may need to provide accomodations 
and transportation after the event.  If you really want to have a competition
you should volunteer to work at one, see whats involved, talk with the 
organizers, then decide if you want to have one and how many styles to judge.
  

RE: excess back log on HBD.  One way to reduce it, less wasted space.
Why do people have to repost a many lines of a post, paraphrase and answer.
long signatures at the end waste space, name and email address are enough.

Lee Menegoni      lmenegoni at nectech.com                 


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Date: 	Mon, 17 Jan 1994 08:23:51 PST
From: WLK.Wbst311 at xerox.com
Subject: Microwave for Sterilization

In reference to John Glaser's suggestion:
>Just out of curiousity, has anyone used a microwave oven for
>sterilization of stuff. It seems to me that many
>difficult-to-sterilize, particularly plastic stuff like tubing, could
>be put in a microwave along with a cup of water, so you don't ruin
>your oven ( or to absorb excess micros, of course :) and nuked for a
>bit. Has anyone tried this and lived to tell?
Unfortunately, microbes are in fact too small to couple (absorb) microwave
energy.  I'm not a physics person, but I do know that living objects below a
certain size can happily mill about in a very strong microwave field, such as
flys, ants and a the like (don't ask me how I know this), so certainly a
microscopic pathogen would be practically invisible to such an energy field.
It is almost analagous to a trying to receive a long wave radio signal with a
stubby antenna, you simply do not have enough length/area to efficiently couple
radio energy to your radio.
Have fun
Bill King at  Xerox Corp., Rochester NY

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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 09:22:00 PST
From: "GEISER, Chris (x-4851)" <Geiser at po1.rb.unisys.com>
Subject: Brewing Supplies in SLC ?


I have a friend in Ogden, UT that is interested in finding a good home 
brewing supply place in the Ogden-Salt Lake City-Provo area. Private E-Mail 
to geiser at unisys.com is welcome.
TIA,
Chris Geiser
619-451-4851
geiser at unisys.com

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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 12:42:01 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: yeast starter -- yes

I had driven home to me recently the importance of a yeast starter.  I
am brewing a bock (well, it turned out a doppelbock, unless I dilute
it). Over about a week and a half before I brewed, I built up a 1
gallon starter and let it ferment out (so the yeast settled to the
bottom).  All this at 50F, to get yeast accustomed to the right temp
(my yeasty friend says that the strain I'm using (YeastLab Munich)
doesn't work well if you start it warm and then cool it).

At pitching time, I decanted the clear "beer" from above the yeast
slurry, leaving just enough to swirl the yeast back into suspension.
Then I poured it into my carboy and put the whole works back into the
fridge at 50F.  Within 24 hours I had "clouds" of kraeusen, and by 36
hours, it had blown off through the airlock!  I've never had a lager
blow off on me before!

=S

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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 12:54:38 EST
From: Allan Rubinoff <rubinoff at BBN.COM>
Subject: blowing off / steam / etc.

I know there have been discussions on HBD in the past about the pros and
cons of using a blow-off during fermentation.  I'd just like to offer
one bit of evidence against it.  

I've brewed 9 batches so far, and used a blow-off for the first 8.  In
every case the resulting beer had virtually no head retention.  I'm
convinced that this is because the main thing that gets blown off is the
protein that creates the head.  For example, the blow-off from a beer I
brewed recently created a huge head in the pitcher of water that I stuck
the hose into.  The foam was very sticky, and lasted for hours after the
blow-off stopped.  If only the resulting beer had that kind of head
retention!  My 9th batch is in the fermenter now, and this time I left
enough space for the foam.  (I attached a blow-off hose just to be safe
- -- no exploding carboys for me, please -- but no foam was lost during
high krausen.)  I have high hopes that this batch will have much better
head retention.

**
Somebody recently asked about using lager yeasts at ale temperatures,
and I'm curious about this as well.  I know this is done for steam
beers, but haven't heard much about lager yeast used with other types
of "ales."  

The temperature in my apartment is between 55 and 60 degrees F these
days, and I've had some probems with ale yeast almost going dormant.  I
recently brewed a stout, and used Yeast Lab European Lager Yeast
(dry) rather than ale yeast.  The fermentation was quite vigorous at
these temperatures.  I tasted the stout at bottling, and it seemed fine,
but I won't be sure until it's done conditioning.  It seems to me,
though, that this approach should work OK.  I would assume that as long
as the temperatures are kept reasonably low (say, below 65), the yeast
won't produce off flavors, but will produce fruity esters (and therefore
the beer will taste like an ale). Is my reasoning all wrong here?

**
Finally, on the subject of style differences between porter and stout: 
Dry stout does have a distinguishing characteristic, that the dominant
flavor note is roasted barley; that's why it's dry.  (This doesn't mean
that other black ales can't have any roasted barley, just that it
doesn't dominate the flavor.)  But for other styles of stout, I too am
mystified by what differentiates them from porters.  At one time, stout
was just high-alcohol porter ("extra-stout porter"), but now it seems
porters tend to be higher in alcohol than stouts.

I think that there is a tendency to get too hung up on style.  The AHA
seems especially guilty of this; their descriptions of what is and isn't
OK in a given style strike me as way too narrow.  In the case of British
ales, anyway, I think it is more useful to think of families of styles. 
For example, the pale ale family includes bitters of various gravities,
pale ales, and IPAs; you could probably include old ales and barleywines
as well, though I think the high-gravity ales are a category unto
themselves.  Especially as interpreted by American brewers, the British
styles seem pretty flexible.  The arguments about whether a beer is
"true-to-style" strike me as being beside the point.  

For example:  British brown ales generally are low in hop bitterness,
and have no finishing hops.  American brown ales are often quite bitter,
with a lot of finishing hops.  So now we have a "style" called American
brown ale.  Isn't this an example of style merely reflecting practice? 
If a beer isn't true to style, maybe it's because that style hasn't been
adequately defined yet.


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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 14:24:54 -0500
From: dd596 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Marc L. Goldfarb)
Subject: Questions/Answers/Comments



Hi all:

 

Someone asked a few days ago for info on growing hops.

>From the ads I've seen in Zymurgy, HopTech looks like

the place to go for info.

Also, it seems that hops are extremely hardy and will

grow just about anywhere, sometimes by as much as a foot a day.

 

George Tempel asked about all grain brewing:

 

I just moved to all grain 5 weeks and 4 batches ago.

I used Buffalo Bills book on building a small brewery

for the guidelines on equipment. The only thing I 

didn't do was to buy the pump. Without that $75 expense,

I was able to scrounge enough parts to build the whole

thing for under $100.  It's really not as tough as it sounds.

Just read the advanced section of the bible (Complete Joy ...)

and maybe Millers book for tips. Then, RDWHAHB. 

BTW, Miller  sounds pretty anal about the whole thing until

you read at the end that he doesn't follow any of the advice 

he gives in the book.

 

Jeremy Bergsman was looking for a pump. It looks like the

only game in town for a cheap high temp pump is W.W. Grainger 

at about $75.

 

Re: finding brewpubs in other cities, I have found that the 

best source of brewpub location is to call the local homebrew store. 

I travel quite a bit and my first call upon arrival in any city 

is to a store to find the brewpubs. It never fails, and at least 

they know what you are talking about.

 

And finally, a question: 

After 2 1/2 years of brewing and 20 years of drinking, I should 

know this but I don't.  What effect does temperature change 

have on finished beer? Specifically, if I put a keg in the 

refrigerator and after a week or two, if it's not empty 

(I know, that's practically impossible, but humor me) and I want 

to try something else, will I hurt the beer by taking it out,

letting it warm to room temp and then cooling it down again 

when I'm ready to drink it?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

Since this post got delayed a couple of days due to my error 

in sending it, I might as well comment on the next couple of 

HBD's that I've received.

 

In HBD 1320, Kirk Anderson mentions the U-Brew stores in Canada. 

I'm not sure if they are legal in the U.S., but they are probably 

too expensive to be a viable commercial venture. They work in 

Canada because the taxes on alcohol are so high. They were not 

set up to get people into homebrewing as much as to make beer 

more affordable. A great concept, but not for here.

We can buy beer for less than it costs to brew it. 

(If you can call that swill beer). :-)

 

RE: Sending homebrew through the mail:

It must be okay. How else do all those entries get to the 

AHA judging sites?

 

RE: Homebrew on the airlines:

1)  I don't believe the baggage compartment is unpressurized. 

Just unheated.

2) Even though the plane may be at 37,000 ft., the cabin is at 

about 8000 ft. No problem.

3) I have travelled with commercial beer on the airlines. 

There is no rule against it.

 

RE: sanitation of wort chillers:

I usually run the bleach solution from my sanitizing fermenter 

through the counterflow chiller to empty the fermenter. I then 

flush with hot tap water at a high pressure for a few minutes. 

I haven't had any problems, yet.

 

Well, I'm finally thru HBD 1321, only a couple more to go to get 

caught up. (Did I just hear a giant sigh of relief)?  I'll leave 

with a final question.  I'm looking for sources of all grain 

recipes. There don't seem to be too many in Cat's Meow II. 

TIA

 

Marc

 

P.S. I preparred this post using Word for Windows 6.0 saved as 

text only and my last post using the MS-DOS editor. In neither 

case did I double space the text, however, that is how it uploaded. 

I would appreciate any help on this problem via e-mail as I'm sure 

it is annoying to everyone to have to deal with this problem. 

TIA for any help or suggestions.

- --
GREETINGS EARTHLINGS and HAPPY BREWING from:
Marc Goldfarb, DIMARC BREWING CO.
Cleveland, Ohio
216-631-3323 or on INTERNET dd596 at cleveland.freenet.edu

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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 13:23 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Competition Notice

                      BREWERS OF SOUTH SUBURBIA
                            AHA Sanctioned
                    REGIONAL HOMEBREW COMPETITION

Judging: Saturday, March 26th, 1994 at   Public Landing in Lockport, IL

     Best of Show Award Sponsored by  SHEAF & VINE BREWING SUPPLY
     [gift certificate (plus shipping if winner is out-of-state)]

            Entry deadline is Sunday, March 20th, 1994.

  For more information, please call John Dalton at 708-560-0747.



Al.
 
P.S. Those of you who experienced the unreasonably long delay in receiving
your judging forms and ribbons last year, I can *personally* assure you
that this problem will not be repeated -- I've volunteered to help do the
post-competition paperwork processing this year.

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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 14:45:03 -0500
From: hillb at charlie.ece.scarolina.edu (Brian K Hill)
Subject: Micro-Breweries in Birmingham,AL


I will be in Birmingham at the end of this month and have heard that there
are some good Brew-Pubs and the like there. If anyone out there knows of
some must-see places there, please send me some info on them.

Thx,

Brian |->

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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 14:44:54 EST
From: carlsont at GVSU.EDU (TODD CARLSON)
Subject: Re: chilling

          I saw two questions over the weekend about chilling beer
          that could maybe benefit from this tip.  One was about the
          beer that froze on the front porch and the other was about
          using an imersion chiller (worried about cold spots).  Why
          don't you put your fermentor is a large container of water
          (plastic garbage pail, primary fermentor, whatever).  For
          the first case, the water layer between the air an your beer
          will buffer any temperature fluctuations and if it gets cold
          enough to freeze, the water in the outer tank will freeze
          before the beer.  Likewise the tank of water would buffer
          the cold spots from an imersion chiller.  You could also use
          an imersion heater (in a cold area) to maintain whatever
          temp you want.  A final advantage is that you can always
          know the temp of your beer by monitoring the temp of the
          tank and not risk contaminating the beer.

          Todd

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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 14:49:07 "EST
From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com>
Subject: Quest for Marris Otter Malt
Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat


Does anybody know a source for Marris Otter Malt?  I live in NJ and
proximity (due to 50lb shipping cost) is a factor.  I am primarily looking
for sources KNOWN to have this, not "They have a lot, why not try ..."
- --
 -Gary Kuyat
  gsk at sagan.bellcore.com
  (908)699-8422

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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 14:56:33 "EST
From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com>
Subject: Dr. Fix's Beer Color Article (1 of 2)
Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat

Color affects the appreciation and evaluation of bee
in subtle but definite ways. The "halo effect" refer
to a situation where a positive (or negative) response
to one attribute leads to an overevaluation (or
underevaluation) of other attributes. The color of
beer can be a powerful but often subconscious
generator of the "halo effect."
    An example is the low marks given to otherwise
satisfactory beers in competitions where the entry's
color is inappropriate for the category. In
professional tasting, the "halo effect" is generally
regarded as an unacceptable bias. However, in less
formal settings it reflects the natural influence that
physical appearance of a food or beverage has over
sensory anticipation. For this, and other reasons,
color control in brewing is important, and the goal of
this chapter is to review the basic issues.
Before describing the test we first review the units
in which beer and wort color are measured, and then
review the factors that affect color in malting and
brewing.
 
COLOR UNITS
    Beer and wort color traditionally have been
measured visually, and early on the Lovibond (degL)
scale was adopted as a standard. This consists of a
well-defined set of color samples that are used for
comparison. A visual match with a beer or wort sample
defines the degL of the sample. In modern brewing,
photometric methods have replaced visual comparison,
and the American Society of Brewing Chemists has
developed the so-called Standard Reference Method
(SRM), which is widely used. Results are expressed as
degrees SRM, and for the purposes of this article
these units can be regarded as the same as degL. Some
examples are presented in the chart below.
 
Standard Reference Method (SRM) for Beer Color Eualuation
 
Color       Hue       L          Example                  SRM
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Yellow      light     0 - 2.5    Budweiser                = 2.0
            pale      2.5 - 3.5  Average American Lager   = 2.5 - 3.9
                                 Average German Pils      = 2.5 - 2.9
   deep straw / gold  3.5 - 5.5  Molson Export Ale        = 4.0
                                 Gosscr Spezial           = 4.0
                                 Pilscncr Urquel          = 4.2
                                 Spaten Club Weiss        = 4.6
 
Amber       light     5.5 - 10   Bass Pale Ale            = 10
                                 Whitbread Pale Ale       = 11
                                 Avg. Marzen/Oktoberfest  = 7 - 14
            medium    10 - 14    Avg. Alt (Dusseldorf)    = 11 - 25
            deep      14 - 20    Michelob Classic Dark    = 17
Black                 above 20   Salvator (Paulaner)      = 21
                                 Triumphater (Lowenbrau)  = 29
                                 Beliken Stout            = 76
 
 It is important to know that totally different units are used in England and
Europe (i.e., degrees EBC). This is because of the different analytical
procedures that are used for measurement. The following formulas have been used
to relate these units:
 
   (degEBC) = 2.65 x (degL) - 1.2
 
   (degL) = 0.377 x (degEBC) + 0.45
 
   I have found that they give reasonable results for
light-colored beers (e.g., those whose color does not exceed
4 degL); however, they are inaccurate for deeper-colored beers.
Discussions with Roger Briess of Briess Malting Company
indicate that these formulas are not held in high regard by
professionals.
 
INFLUENCE OF MALT
   After the grain is steeped with water, it is allowed to
germinate, then is dried in the kiln. It is in the kiln where
coloring pigments such as melanoidins in malt are formed via
the Maillard or browning reaction, a very common oxidation
that occurs in many foods when they are cooked or exposed to
air. By controlling the kiln temperature, the maltster can
control the color of the kernels and hence their coloring
potential in brewing. Typical values for various malt types
are shown in Table 1.
A rule sometimes used by homebrewers is that the color
contributed by a malt is equal to its concentration in pounds
per gallon times its color rating in degL. For pale beers this
rule can give reasonable results. For example, 10 pounds of
pale malt with color 1.6 degL in five gallons should produce
a beer whose color is near
 
1.6 x 10/5 = 3.2degL.
 
But for darker colored beers this rule can give erratic
results. It also ignores the factors other than malt that
contribute to beer color. Cereal adjuncts like rice make no
contribution to beer color. Corn and unmalted barley have
only a slight effect.

- -----------------------------------------------------------
TABLE 1. Typical degL values for different malt types.
 
Malt Type                  Color degL
 
U.S. two-row               1.4 - 1 8
U.S. six-row               1.5 - 1.9
Canadian two-row           1.3 - 1.7
Canadian six-row           1.4 - 1.9
German Pils (two-row)      1.6
German lager (two-row)     1.7
CaraPils                   1.3 - 1.8
Wheat malt                 1.6 - 1.8
Pale ale                   3
Vienna                     3 - 5
Light Munich               8 - 11
Dark Munich                18 - 22
Caramel                    10 - 120
Chocolate malt             325 - 375
Black                      475 - 525
Black barley               500 - 550
- -----------------------------------------------------------
 
         INFLUENCE OF BREWING CONDITIOHS
   Differences in brewing conditions can lead to substantial
color changes in the finished beer, these effects being
particularly important for beers at 5 degL or less.
 
Water As the alkalinity of the water increases, so does the
extraction rate of the coloring pigments in malt. The mash pH I has
the same effect, and increasing pH leads to worts with deeper color.
 
Mash Color increases with the amount of contact time with the
grains. Thus, a prolonged mash will produce a deeper-colored
beer than a short mash.
 
Kettle boil The Maillard reaction also takes place as wort is boiled;
therefore, wort color increases with boil time. A fact that is sometimes
overlooked is that wort simmering has the same effect. The point is that
this will lead to an incomplete hot and cold break, which in turn leaves
more coloring elements in the finished wort.
 
Hops Some color is obtained from hops both in the kettle and in
storage containers when postfermentation hopping is used.
 
Fermentation The proteinous matter produced during the cold break is full
of coloring materials and, hence, removal of these materials will reduce
color. It has been reported that color changes during fermentation vary
with yeast strain.
 
Filtration This can dramatically reduce color. It should be noted that
a clear beer will appear to be lighter color than turbid beer.
 
  Oxidation
 
At all stages of brewing, air pickup will deepen beer color.
This is as true of hot wort production as it is of bottled beer
with head-space air.

END Part 1 
- --
 -Gary Kuyat
  gsk at sagan.bellcore.com
  (908)699-8422

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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 14:56:57 "EST
From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com>
Subject: Dr. Fix's Beer Color Article (2 of 2)
Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat

         BRIESS COIOR TEST
   This is a simple test designed for homebrewers and
microbrewers. Comparisons have shown that will give color
readings with errors more than on percent for beer whose color
is 17 degL or less. Beer whose color exceeds 17 degL will be
essentially black in appearance. It is not particularly
important to quantify color beyond this point.
The standard for this test is Michelob Classic Dark. The reason
is that it is widely available, and its color is known (17 degL).
On very rare occasions one will come across old bottles of this
beer where haze has developed because of mishandling by
distributors. These should not be used in this test. By the same
token, the sample to be tested should clear and free of haze.
The test consists of diluting the standard with water until a
color match with the sample is obtained. Figure 2 gives the
relationship between the amount of water added and the degL of the
sample.

         This is an approximate Graph Plot. Points to plot 
         your own accurate plot will be provided if interest
         is shown.

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     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 
     . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .   
     0        50       100       150       200       250       300 
                     Va = Dilution Water, ml
 
MATERIALS NEEDED
    1. Distilled water--Colored tap water can increase
the errors in this test from I percent to 10 or 20
percent.
 
2. Blender--Dissolved CO2 in the beer will affect its
color. Both the standard and the sample should be
degassed. This can be done in a blender. A lot of foam
will be created, but once it recedes and the beer falls
clear it is ready for testing.
 
3. Light source--It is important for the visual
comparison to take place in a well-lighted environment.
Ideally, this consists of a lamp with a 100watt bulb
against a white background. Be sure to use the reflected
rather than direct light, and place the samples the same
distance from the light source Also, take time in making
the comparison because the difference in one or two degL is
not that great.
 
4. Vessels--These are the most important components to
this test. After extensive experimentation it became
clear that two sets are needed. For detailed testing, two
glass jars of one-inch diameter and a capacity of at
least 125 milliliters are best. For samples below 10 degL
the volume of these vessels is not large enough. Two
white 12-ounce export (long neck returnable bottles will
be needed. The Miller Brewin Co. has been using these
bottles. So has Corona, but the label, which cannot be
removed, is a distraction.
5. Syringe--This is needed to measure 10 cc = 10 ml of
water.
 
PROCEDURE
1. Clean everything.
2. De-gas standard and then sample in blender.
3. Measure in 20 ml of standard beer in export bottle No. 1.
4. Measure in 20 ml of sample beer in export bottle No. 2.
5. If colors are different, measure in 10 ml of distilled
   water to bottle No. 1 and 10 ml of sample beer to export
   bottle No. 2.
6. Continue Step 5 until colors become close. At this
   point the comparisons should be made in the one-inch
   diameter jars. Transfer 25 to 50 ml into these from the
   export bottles and return after comparison. Cut the water
   and sample beer increment from 10 ml to 5 ml.
7. When a color match is obtained, record the total
   amount of water added. Figure 2 gives the associated degL.
 
EXAMPLE - BASS PALE ALE
   At the start the 20 ml of standard beer (Michelob Classic
Dark) will be discernibly darker than the sample (Bass). After
adding 30 ml of water to the standard, the colors will become
close, and at this point the one-inch jars are needed. A match
is obtained after an additional 10 ml of water is added. Thus a
total of 40 ml of water was needed, and from Figure 2, we see
that Bass has a color of 10 degL. Since only 60 ml of liquid was
used in each bottle, the entire test could have done in the
one-inch diameter jars.
 
Note that the relationship between degL and dilution water is not
linear. For example, adding 20 ml of water to 20 ml of Michelob
Classic Dark (17 degL) will not cut the color in half. In fact,
instead of 17/2 = 8.5 degL the color will be higher, namely 13 degL
(see Figure 2). This lack of proportionality is why the
relationship between degL and degrees EBC can be in error. It also
explains why beer color and malt color are not proportional.
 
At the lower color range, on the other hand, proportionality is
approximately valid. Thus, diluting 20 ml of Molson Export Ale
(4 degL) with 20 ml of water will give a color very close to
Budweiser (2degL). More generally for beers whose color is 4 degL or
less, the curve in Figure 2 is given by
 
   degL = 4(140/VA + 20)
 
   where VA is the dilution water in ml.
 
    (The author acknowledges the significant contributions made
through conversations with Roger Briess. In fact, the simple
color test described above is essentially his idea. The author's
contribution was to work out the data represented in Figure 2.)
- --
 -Gary Kuyat
  gsk at sagan.bellcore.com
  (908)699-8422

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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 17:42:32 -0400 (AST)
From: robinson at orbit.acrso.ns.ca (John Robinson)
Subject: Marzen

Well, I finally got around to doing a Marzen beer as per the
book by George and Laurie Fix and I though I would report the
experience for the edification of all.

First off, I modified the recipie slightly.  I used 9 lbs of
top quality Bavarian Pilsner malt with about 1 lb of dark
English crystal malt from Edme.  This will make it a bit darker
than is really appropriate for the style.  In the future I'll
use more light crystal and less dark.

I added more grain because my extraction rates are typically on
the low side based on experience.  As it turned out, I could
have stuck with 8.5 lbs.  The recipie called for 8.5 lbs of 
Pilsner malt, while I used 9 lbs.  The grain was measured 
volumetrically at the rate of 4.25 cups to the pound.

The amount of water used was as recomended, 6 2/3 gallons US, or
about 25L.  That was split, also as recomended for the mash and
the sparge.  I mashed in at tap water temps and boosted to do an
acid rest, then a protein rest and then I boosted into
sachrification range.  The only disadvantages I found doing
things this way were (a) the time required to boost the temp up
and (b) being somewhat impatient I scorched the mash a bit.  I
was really annoyed with the second one but the flavor didn't
seem to be affected.  Time, of course, will tell.

I added slightly more hops than recomended, I used 2 oz in the
form of compressed plugs.  They were Styrian Goldings, with a 5%
rating.  The recipie calls for 1.8 oz of 4% hops.

During the last 15 minutes of the boil I tossed in 1 tablespoon 
of Irish Moss flakes and then chilled with my immersion chiller.
After letting it settle out in the carboy for a couple of hours
I racked it into another one to get it off as much of the trub
as possible.  I would estimate I got rid of about 70% of it.
When racking, I noticed that the gravity was 1.090 and upon
closer inspection realized I only had about 3.5 gallons.  I
had boiled it in a 33L enamle on steel stock pot with the lid on
most of the way, but I would estimate I lost about 30% of the
moisture in the boil, not the 10% that is was used in the
recipie formulation.  For this reason I would suggest that
others using similar equipment either bump the sparge water up
or add more water after the boil.  As my extraction was in the
30s, either one would seem feasible as long as one is sensitive
to the potential extraction of tannins from the husks.  I
doubt I left much sugar behind using 12.5 L in the sparge,
though the low volume left over after the boil made immersing my
immersion chiller a bit of a challenge.  :-)

The yeast I used is the Wyeast Munich (forget the number).

Right now it is fermenting away.  More when I know more.
- -- 
John Robinson                   Internet: robinson at orbit.acrso.ns.ca
Systems Manager
Atlantic Centre for Remote    If it is worth doing, it is worth
    Sensing of the Oceans      doing wrong until you get it right.
DOD #0069                      

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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 16:24:31 -0500 (cdt)
From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: twice-a-day HBD


I don't know how many folks out there will agree with me on this one, but 
personally, if the HBD went to twice a day I think I'd have to cancel my 
subscription, which would make me molto unhappy.  I am typically a day or two 
behind in my posting because I just don't have that much time to take from my 
job for this.  If it came out twice a day, particularly without any reduction 
in length, I'd be hopelessly swamped.

I would much rather see greater restraint exercised in posting.  Not that I 
think that technical articles are the only ones which should be posted, mind 
you; the "new brewer" questions, the humorous articles (what was that, 
Nukebrew?) and just the general banter are fine with me.  I would define 
"restraint" as follows: when you see that there are thirty or more articles 
queued ahead of yours, then relax, have a homebrew if you brought one to work,
and read articles instead of posting for awhile!!

The HBD is a precious resource to me because I have no local brewclub that 
meets regularly, although if I got off my butt I could start one, I suppose.  
But for me, it's either take twenty minutes off from work and read HBD, or 
take more time away from family for brew club, and I'd rather do the former.  
Let's try to keep HBD a bit more concise if this is at all possible - that's 
my vote!

Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa

oops - in the first paragraph, I should have said, "a day or two behind in my 
READING"!

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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 12:23 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: DME Priming/1st batch

I wrote:
>1 cup of corn sugar is a bit too much for standard carbonation levels.  I use
>between 1/3 and 3/4 cup, depending on the style.  If you use DME, you need
>to use about 20 to 25% more by weight, so about 3/4 to 1 1/4 cups of DME to
>equal my 1/3 to 3/4 cup dextrose.  Note, that I recommend that you force-
>chill your priming solution if you use DME and leave the resulting hot and
>cold break OUT of your beer (otherwise, it will create a oily scum on the
>top of the liquid in the bottles).

When I re-read this, it didn't look quite right to me.  I know the 20-25%
(by weight) figures are right, but my conversion looks wrong.  I abandoned
priming with DME a year or so ago, and don't recall the amounts I used.
I suggest that if you are using corn sugar now, and are happy with the
carbonation level, then do the conversion to DME yourself if you wish --
I think it will be quite a bit more accurate than my previous post.

********
Shawn writes:
>1) my kit has only one fermenter, yet the directions refer to 2! Do
>   I need a second one for the priming sugar mixing stage?

Yes, you should use a second, food-grade container for the priming stage.
Some books say that you can mix the priming sugar into the primary, but
you will get quite a bit of trub into your bottles and the amount of sediment
in the bottles will be greatly increased.

>2) It says "use a hydrometer" (which I have) to monitor fermentation.
>   Do I wait until the fermenter steadies at a single value before
>   I bottle, or do I look for a particular numerical reading? The
>   directions aren't clear on this.

Every recipe's final gravity will be a little different.  The FG depends
on a number of things including the mash temperature (the one the extract
manufacturer used, if you are using extract), the yeast, and the original
gravity.  What you said is correct -- wait till the gravity steadies at
a *reasonable* level (i.e. if your 1052 OG beer steadies at 1035, then
you have some problems... perhaps there was a sharp drop in temperature
and the yeast went dormant).

Paul writes:
>  Anyone ever try brewing an ale using Wyeast 3068 Weihensephen lager
>yeast?  I'm a wheat beer fan and don't have lagering facilities, but
>I'm tempted to give this a try.

I haven't used it but have heard only good things about it from several
brewer's who have.  By the way, you don't need lagering facilities to
make Bavarian (or Berliner, for that matter) Wheat beers.  They are ales.
The point of confusion may be that many German breweries filter or
centrifuge-out their primary (ale) yeast and then add a lager yeast at
bottling time.

Al.

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Date: 	Mon, 17 Jan 1994 15:32:41 -0500
From: gauthier at icpd.mitel.com (Albert Gauthier - iccad)
Subject: Stout & Smithwicks(Ab Gauthier)

   I recently brewed a batch of "Toad Spit Stout" that fermented start 
to finish in about 48 hours and ended with an S.G. that seemed quite high 
(1.025). The room was fairly warm and it fermented 'heavily' in the two 
days it took, but this seems unusual. Can anyone shed some light on this?
 
 Also, does anybody know of an extract recipe that will produce a beer 
similar to "Smithwicks" Ale?			
				--Thanks 
 
 ___________________________________________________________________________
 
 "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you.
 This is the principal difference between a dog and a man."
 
 				--Mark Twain
 
 ****************************************************************************
 * Albert J. Gauthier                   Voice   (613) 592-2122 X3339        *
 * Mitel Semiconductor                  Fax     (613) 592-4784              *
 * 360 Legget Drive                     Email   gauthier at icpd.mitel.com     *
 * P.O. Box 13089                               albert_gauthier at mitel.com   *
 * Kanata, Ontario. CANADA                                                  *
 * K2K 1X3                                                                  *
 ****************************************************************************

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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 17:43:47 EST
From: Keith MacNeal 17-Jan-1994 1714 <macneal at pate.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Comments on my bottle sanitizing comments

>Date: 13 Jan 94 15:14:00 CST
>From: "DEV::SJK" <SJK%DEV.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com>
>Subject: Procedural differences


>Hullo,
>
>Just had to respond to Keith MacNeal:
<snip>
>Oh man!  Are you saving time there or WHAT!? :-)  Sounds to me like your
>system is more complicated.  Not only are you wasting gobs of water (a
>concern for us here in CA), but in the time it takes to scrub the tub (I'm
>assuming), fill it up, let everything soak, move 40-60 bottles plus the
>other equipment from the bathroom to the kitchen, rinse the bottles and let
>them dry (!?), said bottles could have been heated up and cooled down and
>everything else could have become nice and sanitary in your bottling bucket
>full of bleach-water.  Not only does this take a lot of time, but a lot of
>it is time spent rinsing bottles or whatever that could be spent doing
>something else because the oven method does not require much attention. 
>That's OK with me, *I* just don't see how Keith's method is so much better
>as to be worth a "why bother?".

Perhaps I didn't fully understand the oven method.  It sounded to me like an 
additional step to the bottle soak.  I figure I'm using around 25 gallons of 
water for the soak.  With the JetSpray Bottle & Carboy washer there doesn't 
seem to be that much water used for the rinse.  I find plenty of ways to 
occupy my time while the soak and drip dry are going on.  Yes the filling, 
draining, moving, rinsing does take up some time.  Like I said, I thought 
those who used the oven method were doing this anyway.

>>a couple of squirts) and allow the bottles to dry on a bottle drying rack. 
>
>Why bother?  Wouldn't want to get a little water in your beer. ;->

Come to think of it, there probably isn't a good reason to let them drip dry 
and they probably aren't on the rack long enough for a thorough drying.  The 
rack does provide a nice place to conveniently store those bottles neck down 
while I'm filling.

>>you'll see that counter-flow chillers are more efficient than immersion 
>>chillers (I won't bother with the equations here).  Whether or not you need 
>
>Please bother.  This doesn't make sense to me.  'Course, that shouldn't be
>too surprising...

Briefly it has to do with temperature differentials, surface area of cooling
coils, and mass of material being cooled.  Like I said, pick up any decent
textbook on heat transfer or get your hands on a copy of a book like Perry's
"Chemical Engineering Handbook". 

Keith MacNeal
Digital Equipment Corp.
Hudson, MA

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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 1994 20:16:04 -0500
From: Beth <per at telerama.lm.com>
Subject: wny brew supplies

Hi- I rember a while ago people from Ontario, Toronto especially
asking where to get brew supplies in western New York.  I would 
like to suggest

Niagara Tradition Homebrewing supplies
716-283-4418

Nice place, not very fancy.  The person maning the counter was
very helpful in ptting together the supplies for a terrrific pale ale.

I don't own stock- I'm  only a satisfied customer.

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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 94 19:14:48 PST
From: "Victor Grigorieff" <VGRIGORI at us.oracle.com>
Subject: Followup/Answers to "Ideas on fermenter heaters for mead making?"


 
Let me start by saying thanks to everyone who replied with helpful information 
on how to make mead in a cellar that is only 55 degrees.  As part of my thank 
you note, I thought I would summarize the public wisdom on this matter: 
 
The fermenter may be fine at 55 degrees, but it may ferment fairly slowly.  I 
had originally wanted to keep the temperature at 85 degrees, but apparently 70 
degrees is a much more reasonable goal.   
 
There are several band heaters available on the market, but they can cause 
bacterial infections in the area which is heated more than the rest of the 
fermenter.  William's Brewing used to carry such an item, but has discontinued 
it.  You could use a heating pad and some insulation to keep things warm, 
which sounds like a great idea. 
 
An idea which seemed simple and cheap to implement was to submerge the glass 
carboy in a plastic bucket or garbage can, and use two fish tank heaters to 
heat the water, and hence warm the fermenter.  A pair of 25 Watt heaters 
diametrically opposed in the plastic bucket would do it.   
 
I plan to use the two fish tank heaters in a plastic tub to keep everything 
running smoothly.   Thanks again to everyone for the advice. 
 
 - Vic 
 
      +------------------------+ 
      | Victor Grigorieff      | 
      | vgrigori at us.oracle.com | 
      +------------------------+ 



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1328, 01/19/94