HOMEBREW Digest #1336 Fri 28 January 1994

Digest #1335 Digest #1337

		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator

  Beer Bread (Derrick Pohl)
  Beers by Brekenridge Brewery... (Corby Bacco)
  Don't use radiators as chillers (JEBURNS)
  tshirts/compressors/that awful wit (garyrich)
  rye malt - sticky! (Tom Lyons)
  Celis White ("Bill Knecht")
  How long to prime??? (Domenick Venezia)
  COMPRESSOR AERATION (708) 938-3184" <HANSEN.MICHAEL at igate.abbott.com>
  hops in primary/rack off trub? (Peter Maxwell)
  Re:  Celis White comments (jerryb7595)
  Chicago Area Brewers (Cathy Cullen (N3311))
  High or Buzz Beers (rsharris)
  Freezing yeast/backlog ("Rex K. Perkins")
  quick wedding mead ("Malcolm Tobias")
  Fridge Controllers (Bob_McIlvaine)
  RE: Oktoberfest trip and Munich Brewery Tours (Bob Kosakowski)
  Kinderbier (Mark Childers x313)
  brown malt (Randall Bowen)
  yyes (NALL9905)
  Re: Question on flavor (Celis White) (Bob Guerin)
  yeast culturing ("John L. Isenhour")
  Metallurgy has Two L's!; Keg Cracks ("Palmer.John")
  Specific gravity computation (Thomas K. Schonhoff)
  Is this for real? (KRUSE_NEIL)
  Zymurgy Info (DAVE1683)
  Used equipment prices (Joel Birkeland)
  Igloo coolers (dan_fox)
  Re: Those Yeast Names (Jeff Frane)
  Brewferm and boiling (snystrom)
  High O.G. culturing (Jim Grady)
  Coors SpringBock??? (Aaron Birenboim)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 12:07:38 -0800 From: pohl at unixg.ubc.ca (Derrick Pohl) Subject: Beer Bread >From: Zach Fresco <zfresco at helen.bush.edu> >Subject: Beer Bread > >Does anyone have a good recipy fore beer bread? Ive had it from a kit >and its very good. I've been thinking about posting this for a while, and now that it's been asked for, why not? My partner's father swears by this recipe, and says it's especially good toasted. In his own words: "I have been making beer bread though... using an 1812 recipe from old Fort Henry...3 cups of flat home brew at room temp...in a bowl bring to room temp. and add a pack of yeast [bread yeast presumably - ed.]..let it work for a while (5-10min)..dump in 8-9 cups of whole wheat flour and a shot of salt...dump out on to a floured surface and punch for 3 or 4 min...this is the only tricky bit, it is often too sticky..never mind..add bits of flour until it is workable...leave it after the punching for 10 min...cut in two and stick into two greased pans.. cover and let rise in a warm spot for 45 min...stick in a pre-heated oven ..500 turned down to 375 and bake for 50 min. (or until done?)..remove from oven..remove from pan..cut a slice..smear on a thin layer of peanut butter..then a slice of cheese of your choice..then some pepper..then a dash of your most potent hot sauce...sardines of course, with or without the peanut-butter go without saying....then sit back and devour ambrosia!...those Red-Coats knew how to make no-fuss bread...I live on this stuff" - ----- Derrick Pohl <pohl at unixg.ubc.ca>, Faculty of Graduate Studies University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 13:08:08 MST From: bacco at md.fsl.noaa.gov (Corby Bacco) Subject: Beers by Brekenridge Brewery... In HBD #1334 Mark Brunster asked about beers from Brekenridge brewery. I've tried their oatmeal stout, their IPA, their amber ale, and their wheat beer. I was unimpressed with all of the last three beers. However, I like the oatmeal stout and would reccomend trying it, tastey (IMHO). Oh, their X-mas ale was o.k. too, nice bottles (33 oz swing tops), bit pricey(~$10.00). Cheers, Corby (in Boulder, bacco at md.fsl.noaa.gov) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 15:17:47 EST From: JEBURNS at ucs.indiana.edu Subject: Don't use radiators as chillers Just a quick post. DON'T use a radiator or heater core for anything that comes in contact with your beer. Most of them use lead based solders. Dave. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 12:56:36 PST From: garyrich at angel.qdeck.com Subject: tshirts/compressors/that awful wit >From: Mark_Worwetz at Novell.COM (Mark Worwetz) >Subject: Sam Adams T-shirt offer > >A few months ago I received a Sam Adams(tm, of course) propaganda leaflet >that contained an irresistable FREE T-SHIRT offer. Being a collector of >such drivel I filled it out and mailed it away. I've since heard nothing >from them. Has anyone else seen this offer? Has anyone received anything? I got my t-shirt in mid december, which was almost 4 months after I returned the leaflet thingie. They've also put me on their junk mail list. Just goes to show you that nothing is free. >From: "Michael D. Hansen (708) 938-3184" <HANSEN.MICHAEL at igate.abbott.com> >Subject: WORT AERATION > >Short, simple question: Has anyone ever used a small air compressor (the type >that drives an airbrush, for example) to aerate their wort? I use my son's ventilator for his asthma medicine. It's almost the same thing except mine has a filter. It does a fine job. There might be some oil fumes from yours though. I'd use it to blow up a balloon and inhale the balloon's air. If you don't gag, it should work just as well as mine. >From: "Paul Austin" <huckfinn at vnet.IBM.COM> >Why did the first few bottles almost explode and have GREAT heads >but subsequent openings have no fizz? The stuff tastes great, but >I want some head! I've had this problem caused by uneven priming when I was being too concerned about stirring it up in the bottling bucket and causing oxidation. In my experience you can't rely on the swirling caused by siphoning into the bottling bucket to stir it up well enough, though some people get by with this. your mileage may vary. > >From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu > >You should mix VERY GENTLY. Here's what I do: I boil up a cup or so >of water with the priming sugar. Then, after I've siphoned a bit of >beer into the bottling container, I gently pour in the sugar solution, and >continue siphoning. I figure the currents from siphoning mix in the >priming solution pretty well. Seems to work for Spencer, but it does not for me. I say stir! >From: "Bill Knecht" <knecht at mind.psych.umn.edu> >Subject: Question on flavor > > I recently tasted a beer by the Celis Brewery, Austin TX (pron'd >"See-liss") called Celis White. The brew was very very pale, and the name >apparently comes from an uncorrected chill haze. > My question is this: this beer has a piquant, fruity aroma, and >what seems to me a very acidic, fruity bite to it. Could anyone comment >on what this taste might be? I find it quite disturbing and unpleasant, >and would like to know what it is so that I could avoid it. Geez, I wish I'd been there to take it away from you. Celis' beers are the best beers made in the USA (IMHO and all that). The white is a "holy grail" for a lot of us homebrewers. If you disliked the White, you will probably absolutely detest the Grand Cru. I hereby claim Bill's share of the world's Celis beers B-). The white is a Belgian Wit beer. It's made with ~45% unmalted wheat (hence the cloudiness) and is spiced with bitter orange peel and coriander. Any of those things could be what you don't like, but more likely it's the fact that it's fermented partially by lactobacillus that offended you. That's what causes the tartness. Gary Rich | Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA garyrich at qdeck.com Doth it not show vilely in me to desire small beer? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 13:14:28 -0800 (PST) From: tlyons at netcom.com (Tom Lyons) Subject: rye malt - sticky! c-amb at math.utah.edu writes: My recipie will be based on the following ratio's: 50 - 60% rye malt You will end up with the mother of all stuck runoffs, I'm afraid! My (one) experience with rye malt (and listening to the experience of others) indicates that rye malt in that quantity will turn into a mass of goo in the bottom of your mashtun. My tun (which normally has excellent sparging performance) shut down like a clogged drain with an attitude when I used a grist containing 40% rye malt. I would like to hear about your experience with rye. Good luck! Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 16:25:55 CST From: "Bill Knecht" <knecht at mind.psych.umn.edu> Subject: Celis White Many thanks to all of you who educated me on the taste of Celis White! Here is a brief summary of what you've taught me: 1. The pronunciation is probably not "See-liss", but more like "Sell-iss" or "Sellees" (or perhaps a French "Seh-lee"). 2. The style is Hoogarten Witbier (Belgian white beer). 3. The fruity aroma and taste are the result of: a. Unmalted wheat. b. Curacao orange peel. c. Coriander seed. d. Lactic acid (introduced either by a deliberate infection of lactobacillis or the addition of lactic acid). 4. The white color is probably due to: a. Orange oil, which becomes less soluble as the temperature decreases. b. Wheat cloudiness. So I now know why that batch of my friend's beer tasted so bad. He also had a lactobacillis infection. The difference is that his was unwanted and uncontrolled. Hmmm. Same idea behind sauerkraut and kimchee. The key is control. Two folks sent in recipes (thanks to Tom and Jim), for the benefit of all of you who like this style. - ---------------------------- #1 ---------------------------- From: tony.storz at cld9.com (Tony Storz) Subject: Celis White Clone Recipe [HBD #1310] Recently there was a request for a Celis White Clone recipe. Here is a recipe that I came up with and uploaded to Compuserve in early November. Thanks to Steve Daniel and Steve Moore from the Home Brew University BBS (713-923-6418) and my electronic friends on Compuserve who helped steer me in the right direction by giving me a starting point. Pugsley's Pseudo Celis White #5 malt: 4.5 lbs. 6 row (or 2 row) specialty: 4.0 lbs. Unmalted Wheat (Bulgar from Health Food Store) 4 grams dried orange peel 4 grams crushed corriander seeds 1 tsp. Alpha-Amalase enzyme lactic acid hops: 1 oz. Hallertauer yeast: 1 pack Wyeast #3056 Bavarian Wheat optional: 1 tsp. gypsum OG 1.041 FG 1.011 Bring 2 gallons water to boil. Add unmalted wheat and hold at 185-195 degrees for 20 minutes. Add cold water and 6 row malt to bring down to 130 degrees. Add 1 tsp. amalase and gypsum (pH 5.3). Allow protein rest for 25 minutes. Raise temperature to 150 degrees and hold 20 minutes. Complete conversion by raising temperature to 158 degrees and holding for 20 minutes. Mashout at 168 degrees for 5 minutes. Acidify sparge water to pH 5.7 with lactic acid. Sparge with 4-5 gallons of 170-180 degree water. Boil wort for 90 minutes. Add hops and crushed spices 15 minutes before end of boil. Cool wort and pitch yeast. While this will not fool everyone into thinking that this is the real Celis White, I was very happy with the outcome. The spices are "up front" without being overpowering. However, some people like a wallop from the spices and you will need to experiment with the spice amounts. After a couple months the spices have faded a bit, so next time I will double the spices and probably try Wyeast White beer yeast. This recipe should give you a good starting point with which to experiment. If anyone else has a recipe for a Celis White clone, or have any comments or questions on my recipe, please feel free to E-mail me or post. - ---------------------------- #2 ---------------------------- The Elusive Wit 5# 2-row 5# wheat malt 1 oz Hallertau, 3.2% AAU, 60 minues .5 oz Hallertau, 3.2% AAU, 30 minutes 1 oz Saaz, 4.0 %AAU, 20 minutes 1 quart Brewer's Resource Belgian Wit ale yeast starter 3/4 cup corn sugar for priming 1/2 tsp orange peel, added to secondary 1 tsp crushed coriander, added to secondary OG = 1.048 FG = 1.016 As you can see, this recipe calls for 50 % wheat malt. I've also seen recipes which call for 45% un-malted wheat. The wheat or wheat malt are what give's the beer it's milky appearance or "uncorrected chill haze." The coriander and the orange peel make for a very interesting flavor profile. There's also a third spice, but PC is not willing to divulge it. The above recipe did very well in the Minnesota Brewfest (300 entrees). It won first place in the Belgian category (30 entrees), (Judged by John Isenhauer) and then went on to take Best of Show (Judged by Michael Jackson, Andy Leith and Isenhauer). --------- and there ya have it!------------ ..................................................................... .^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. . William Knecht . . ...and now for your randomly-selected quotation... . ..................................................................... "In Hollywood a marriage is a success if it outlasts milk." Rita Rudner Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 14:41:38 -0800 (PST) From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at ZGI.COM> Subject: How long to prime??? I've posted this idea before but Spencer Thomas' post in #1334 and the recent flood of new HBD participants got me thinking it was worth posting again. Prior to transfering wort, whether into secondary or bottling carboy, a small piece of dry ice in the empty carboy will fill it with CO2 and prevent any oxidation from agitation. Domenick Venezia ZymoGenetics, Inc. Seattle, WA venezia at zgi.com Return to table of contents
Date: 26 Jan 1994 16:54:00 -0600 (CST) From: "Michael D. Hansen (708) 938-3184" <HANSEN.MICHAEL at igate.abbott.com> Subject: COMPRESSOR AERATION Hi All! I recently posted an inquiry about using a compressor to aerate wort. Based on private response I've gotten, I need to clarify the type of compressor. It is a small medical compressor used to inhale asthma medication. It produces breathable air that is somewhat filtered. Can I still use it to aerate wort? TIA and brew on my friends, Mike (HANSENMD at RANDB.ABBOTT.COM) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 16:12:15 -0800 (PST) From: Peter Maxwell <peterm at aoraki.dtc.hp.com> Subject: hops in primary/rack off trub? Could anyone please give me the answers to the following two questions: (a) if I rack into a secondary within a week of putting the wort into the primary, does it make any difference if I try to leave the trub/hot/cold breaks behind in the boiler or simply dump it all in? (b) does putting all the boil and finish hops (particularly the latter) into the primary make any difference to bitterness/aroma/taste? Both these questions relate to my uncertainty as to whether it's worth all the extra time to try to separate the wort from the "nasties" after boiling. Peter Return to table of contents
Date: Wednesday, 26 January 94 18:30:20 CST From: LLDSC at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu Subject: RE: FALSTAFF In HBD#1334, Ulick Stafford writes about being able to tell Falstaff beer from the riddles in the caps. Interesting. Down here in the Lone Star State they brew a little lager by the name of Pearl (from the country of 1000 springs). Pearl also has the little puzzles in the caps. (the technical term is rebus). Some of them are really hard. We eventually wound up writing to the brewery and they sent us an answer sheet. How about those Falstaff puzzles? (rebusi?) Are they tough? Comin' at you from the land of 1000 springs, Scott Calonico lldsc at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 19:57:14 EST From: jerryb7595 at aol.com Subject: Re: Celis White comments Re: Bill Knecht hates Celis White Wow, Bill, sounds like a bad experience. I loved the stuff. But, if you're looking to avoid doing this with your own homebrew, you might take the following advice. Do NOT make a beer that contains some 2-row malt, some 6-row malt, some unmalted wheat (causes the "uncorrected chill haze"), some coriander, some orange peel (maybe the "acidic, fruity bite" you tasted), a smattering of hops. Also do not use Wyeast's new White Beer yeast (number escapes me). You should be able to avoid this flavor profile altogether if you don't do those things. On a more serious side, you make it sound as though the beer is seriously defective. Without taking into consideration any possible storage disaster on the part of the watering hole you frequent, I think it may be just a style you just don't like, which is why there's lots of styles of beers. The Celis White won a gold in the GABF this year. Being a big Belgian beer fan, and having tried Celis White not too long ago, I gotta agree with the GABF. The haze isn't a classic "chill haze". For want of a better term, I'd call it a "wheat haze". Wheat beers tend to be on the cloudy side. The fruity taste is a function of the unmalted wheat, the spice, and the, well, fruit. The yeast plays a part there, too. I have heard some people say there is a little "Lacto action" going on that would contribute some sourness, but I don't know for sure. Anyway, if anyone sends you some Celis White for Christmas, now you know who will take it off your hands. Jerry Brown (jerryb7595 at aol.com) Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 16:33:52 CST From: cullen at zeus1.issc.com (Cathy Cullen (N3311)) Subject: Chicago Area Brewers People in the Chicago area might want to take a look at the feature article in this weeks Reader on homebrewing. It's pretty interesting and exciting. Oh and while I've got your attention, I am pretty dismayed by the fact that there are no homebrew supply stores in Chicago besides Brewin Beer, which hardly qualifies. I am seriously considering opening up a homebrew supply store in the Southport/Belmont area. I've been waiting for AGS to open a store in the city for over a year now and have given up. My aim in doing this is to offer a wide variety of options to brewers with an emphasis on Quality and Freshness. I am interested in what it is that brewers look for in homebrew supplies, and am especially interested in what brewers in Chicago feel is needed here. I am also interested in feedback from others who may be doing this, or have done this in the past. The biggest dilemna I have is that I am quite happy doing software development and it pays the rent. I'm not sure if running a retail business will pay the rent. Thanks in Advance, Cathy Cullen cullen at zeus1.issc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 23:24:21 CST From: rsharris at students.wisc.edu Subject: High or Buzz Beers I have heard a few people talk about using cannabis in place of finishing hops. And also that either the flavor or the effect could be achieved, depending on methods used. Does anybody have any suggestions? Thanks in advance for any replies. Return to table of contents
Date: 26 Jan 94 23:24:43 EST From: "Rex K. Perkins" <70651.1611 at CompuServe.COM> Subject: Freezing yeast/backlog Greetings, I'm about to put together a frozen yeast bank as a backup for my refrigerated slants and would appreciate some advice. Based on what I have read here over the last 6 months, I was thinking of using a wort of DME, yeast nutrient, sucrose and glycerin. My questions are: 1) Does glycerin need to be sterilized, or is it like, say alcohol and kills the nastiness all by itself? If it needs to be sterilized, how do you do it? Being rather chemically naive, I decided to make up a 15% (aprox) glycerin/water mixture and boil it to find out if the glycerin would boil off. My suspicions were rather violently confirmed when the mixture, instead of boiling, exploded and shot itself out of the test tube and across the room. So, obviously, I can't just add the glycerin to the wort in the culture tube and boil that in water (don't have a pressure cooker). 2) Is glycerin toxic? The bottle I got from the pharmacy (sold as a skin treatment) had a 'do not drink' type warning on it. I was under the impression that it was a powerful laxative, but not toxic. 3) When the wort is inoculated, should that be left at room temperature for a day or two, like a slant, before freezing, frozen immediately or left for some longer period? I have seen several references to an article on freezing yeast in the yeast special issue of Zymurgy and have what is sold as the back issue of that magazine, but can find no such article. Are there more than one yeast special issue, has the article been pulled from any reprints or am I just blind? RE: HBD backlog. I agree with Lee Menegoni's comment in HBD1328 about excessive quoting. Those of us that pay to receive this digest find this particularly annoying. All that is needed are a few lines to establish the context. Cheers, Rex K. Perkins. Bolton MA. 70651.1611 at compuserve.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 07:52:52 -0600 From: "Malcolm Tobias" <mtobias at wurel.wustl.edu> Subject: quick wedding mead A friend of mine is getting married in eight months, and would like to have some mead ready for the wedding. Any suggestions for a recipie that would be ready in that time? I seem to recall a thread a while back on mead/extract mixtures, how have those turned out? Do they take take a considerabley shorter time to get ready? email responses would be fine, thanks, Malcolm Tobias mtobias at wurel.wustl.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 08:53:08 EST From: Bob_McIlvaine at keyfile.com Subject: Fridge Controllers You can get a very simple fridge controller from JB Distributing 603-465-7633. It's a kit containing documentation and a circuit board. You supply a hand full of parts and your soldering iron. It's about $10. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 9:22:28 EST From: Bob Kosakowski <bkos at hpwarf.wal.hp.com> Subject: RE: Oktoberfest trip and Munich Brewery Tours I'm sorry to waste the bandwidth with this message, I was planning only to handle any interest in the munich brewery tours off-line. HOWEVER, In defense of a recent accusation by DON BISZEK of irregularities or of diverting of funds etc. Maybe Mr. Biszek should have gotten his facts before such accusations were made. I have also been able to travel alone or with one other person for much less (I love to stay at guest houses) than the total cost of the brewery tour trip... Have you tried squeezing 30+ people into a guest house during Oktoberfest... I simply trying to clear up some misconceptions that may have been raised. Call you local travel agent to check a comparable trip. Odds are you'd find it not including what is below, and costing more. If not, let me know and I'll relay that info to the appropriate people. I don't think you will much better though. Here is what was on the list for last year. I didn't go last year because of changing jobs. If you have questions/concerns call me or, if you prefer, call me and I'll give you the number of the travel agent doing all the arrangements for this years trip. INCLUDED: RT Airfare Boston-Munich-Boston Hotel transportation to/from Hotel-Airport all transfers, taxes, portage (1 bag), tips for whole trip. breakfast every day 1 farewell dinner A local multi-lingual Professional Tour Director for duration Local tour guides at several sights A trip to Fussen and Neuschwanstein castle (Option of trip to Salzburg instead) Transportation/admission included. Munich city tour with local tour director(above) Reserved seats at an Oktoberfest Tent Transportation to/from hotel to all events Brewery/Beer Hall Tours: Forshungsbraurei Lowenbrau Keller Weihenstephan Hofbrauhaus Salvator Keller The prices on my price sheet for last year are as follows: 20-39 people cost: US$ 1965 pp Dbl US$ 2315 pp Sngl 40+ people cost: US$ 1690 pp Dbl US$ 2040 pp Sngl - -- In reference to: >> Well current costs to Munich are about $700 rt, and I stayed in a >> lovely B+B near the Science Museum for $60/night for a double. That comes >> to $1000 for 10 days in Munich, not including food and beer. I can believe that, but your not likely to get $60/night during Oktoberfest or at least not at a place that will house 30+ people during Oktoberfest. I always use the subway in Munich, it is cheap and efficient, but carting 30+ people from place to place on subway (some who prefer not to travel that way) is difficult at best. So we get a motorcoach with guide for the trips to the breweries/beer halls. The cost also includes everything in the trip to the Castle, etc. And the Farewell dinner/feast. ... >> The extra $1000 must be going somewhere, because this is not a good >> deal. As I said, this can be taken in a very wrong and severely libellous way. However, I am not one to take offense easily (I play goalie, I'm more used to defense ;-) I think this is a very good deal considering what we are working with. Feel free to investigate it further for yourself and you decide. Remember though, less than 5 people and you can be far more flexible. Work with numbers over 20 and compare... Sorry for the bandwidth waste here, just defending myself after what I saw as a potentially damaging accusation. Tag, Bob Kos ______________________________ | | | Robert K. Kosakowski | | Software Design Engineer | | bkos at hpwarf.wal.hp.com | | | | Phone: (508) 659 - 4808 | | FAX: (508) 686 - 1258 | |______________________________| Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 08:34:56 -0600 From: markc at ssd.fsi.com (Mark Childers x313) Subject: Kinderbier Anyone out there have a recipe for a German Product marketed under the name of "Kara-Malz" or "Vita-Malz"? TIA. Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 9:47:16 PST From: rlbowen at miata.edaco.ingr.com (Randall Bowen) Subject: brown malt Hello All, I was perusing my back issues of HBD and came across a recipe formulation for a porter taken from the Durben(sp?) Park club recipe book that they recently published. As I am getting ready to brew my first porter, this really caught my eye as opposed to the first time I read it. My apologies to the original poster recommending the recipe (I didn't make note of your name before deleting that HBD issue). Anyway, here is the all grain formulation from said HBD: 81 % pale malt 14 % brown malt 5 % black patent malt My question concerns the "brown malt". What does this term refer to? Crystal malt of a specific Lovibond or chocolate malt? Thanks, Randall rlbowen at ingr.com _________________________________________________________________________ Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 11:51:16 EST From: NALL9905 at URIACC.URI.EDU Subject: yyes testing 123 Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 08:57:24 -0800 From: bguerin at orincon.com (Bob Guerin) Subject: Re: Question on flavor (Celis White) The Celis Brewery is run by Pierre Celis, who formerly owned the De Kluis Brewery in Belgium, maker of Hoegaarden White. Presumably, Celis White is styled after this beer (I have tasted Celis Grand Cru, but not the White). According to Michael Jackson, Hoegaarden White is made from 45% unmalted wheat, 5% unmalted oats, and 50% malted barley. These ingredients, along with the slowly flocculating yeast used for bottle conditioning, produce the "white" cloudiness characteristic of the Witbier style. The beer is also flavored with coriander and curacao, both of which were commonly used before hops came into vogue. The acidic/sour nature of this and other Belgian beers derives in part from the unique strains of yeast used. Belgian beers are definitely an acquired taste. Bob Guerin (bguerin at orincon.com) Orincon Corporation Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 11:16:40 CST From: "John L. Isenhour" <isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov> Subject: yeast culturing SLK6P at cc.usu.edu is concerned about liquid storage of yeast: I said: >> You really have to seal petri dishes well (I use parafilm) >* I would question relying solely on liquid cultures. One major advantage >of the use of plates is that you can SEE single colonies. Even with slants >you are able to get an idea if there is significant/obvious contamination. I didnt say to use liquid only, I just prefer it. I really doubt that with typical streaking done in the home that you would steak down to the point where you could be certain that there was only one cell per growth node. Especially in the summer, even in a hood, you will occasionally get airborn stuff landing on a section of exposed agar (or landing on the yeast) and get contamination. As explained in my article on sterile transfer techniques in the Zymurgy yeast issue, you can avoid potential contamination problems by using liquid. >Additionally, it is my belief that slants/plates can last longer as a >stable culture than a liquid culture. Plates that undergo temperature changes are going to respire and possibly suck in contamination. I keep liquid yeast stored at 28 degrees F in surplus vacutainers (test tubes with septa stoppers so you can add and remove yeast and maintain sterility), as well as other vessels with hypodermic septa attached. These cultures last for months between restarting. Adding glycerine to the liquid will allow you to further reduce the temperature and increase storage life. Being under liquid at low temps reduces exposure to O2. Many of my microbiologist aquaintances store liquid yeast in this mannor just like they do in their labs. >Due mainly to the fact that the >medium is solid, therefore nutrients will diffuse to the culture in a >slower fashion I am not aware of nutrients diffusing thru chilled agar at any appreciable rate (I would welcome any citations), most organisms try to grow across agar to get to nutrients. The so called unfermentables can be utilized, at much slower rate. When liquid yeast media is added to fresh sterile liquid starter and the temperature is reduced, I've found that they do not tend to exhaust the media before I utilize the sample. >In micro labs most cultures are STORED on slants, plates, or frozen for >longer term storage. It is rare to store a culture in a liquid medium. I have never seen a petrie dish used to store yeast in a freezer. I know of a lot of cell types grown and stored in liquid, esp if that is their natural environment. >Also: for the average home rancher use of an inoculating loop and flame >are more readily available than sterilized pipets for liquid transfers. I usually use syringes, to assure sterility for the critical stages (small amount of yeasts), but I purchased a box of glass disposable Pasteur Pipettes over 6 years ago and I'm still re-using them. If you are going to do culture work, you really should have a pressure cooker. The tranfer instruments can be sterilized with this. I have autoclaving trays, but aluminum foil will work nicely for wrapping the tools. The biggest hassle for me as a cultivater was to construct a glove box, and buying a high end pressure cooker - suplus places abound with the rest of the toys. >I do re-use dregs, and will store them in flasks for a week or so, but >prefer to work from my pure cultures, on plates and slants in the fridge, >and feel I've had less contamination problems with this approach than >from use/storage of liquid forms of cultures. If your experince with liquid was from dregs, then I can understand your concerns. I will immediatly recycle yeast on occasion, but for pure culturing liquids I've always (traded or) purchased a starter - I dont want the yeast supply guys going outta business, but I so like to get at least 10 ferments out of a purchased culture. I've been using predominantly liquid for many years and I've never had any contamination problems (gee, now why did I just jinx myself!). I use slants for mailing/trading yeasts around. If done with care, I'm sure that either method will suffice. I've just found liquid to be better for me. A small explanation might help: I take canning lids and drill a syringe septa hole in it, another hole holds a grommet for my glass autoclavable airlock. The whole thing goes into the pressure cooker with starter liquid. In the glove box, a sterilized syringe draws the original starter out of the yeast pack and (with liberal use of peroxide) is injected into the sterile starter in the canning jar thru the septa. I innoculate a variety of liquid cultures this way (via septa) for storage. When the quart mason jar has near fermented out, I take a gallon jug with glass airlock that has been autoclaved with starter solution, and in the glove box, I pour the yeast dregs into the gallon jar (slosh more peroxide here). This is the starter for a 5 gallon batch. This might seem a little extreme, but in certain parts of the Ohio Valley in the summer, the "blue green" blight will attack any open agar with discusting regularity. If lambic brewsters can 'store' their cultures in wooden barrels, and even out in the feilds - I guess anything will work :-) -john Return to table of contents
Date: 27 Jan 1994 09:10:37 U From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com> Subject: Metallurgy has Two L's!; Keg Cracks It's a metallurgist's pet peeve, like pronouncing molybdenum, "molly-bed-nium" Argh! Anyway, In response to Ed's Query (small pun), on what is causing his brewshop guys SS keg/boiler to develop cracks, I think I know the answer. These 300 series alloy stainless steels are prone to the phenomenon of "Sensitization" which is a high temperature related diffusion of the chromium atoms away from the grain boundaries to form carbides. This causes local corrosion and grain boundary attack which leads to intergrannular cracking. It is a common problem when welding stainless steels; you may recall my post last year about welding of stainless. If the cracking occuring at the flame zone of the burner is jagged/zig zag, then it is intergrannular and most likely caused by Sensitization, caused by the high heat being input to the keg in that small area. His proposed solution to the problem (1/4 inch steel plate over the flame) may do the trick. If his keg had a flat bottom I would say to rest it on an aluminum plate to get the most uniform heat transfer. Since most of these kegs have rounded bottoms, I would think a "diffuser" plate like above is the next best thing. This does point out that you can have too much heat on your boiler. Finally, the only cure is an entire Solutionizing Heat Treatment of the whole thing at 2000F for several minutes followed rapid cooling. Since this needs to be done in a furnace with a protective atomosphere, I think his keg is probably history. Once these steels are Sensitized, the cracking will only get worse. John Palmer Space Station Materials and Processes palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 09:22:16 -0800 From: thomask at cs.washington.edu (Thomas K. Schonhoff) Subject: Specific gravity computation After who-knows-how-many batches I've suddenly realized that my SG readings have always been bogus for the OG of the batch!!! Not, as you might suspect, due to temperature variations (I use the conversion chart supplied with the hydrometer) but rather because of VOLUME. I generally end up topping off my secondary with water once I move the beer from the primary since it's so hard to boil down to precisely the right 5 gallon measurement (especially using 135K BTUs of fiery hell provided by my cooker). It seems that most of us two-stage fermenters probably boil anywhere from 4.5 to 5 gallons and probably err on the low side just to be safe when we go to the carboy. THis is an error of far too many SG points for my taste. What obvious fact have I overlooked, or how do you deal with it? Return to table of contents
Date: 27 Jan 94 09:03:00 -0800 From: KRUSE_NEIL at Tandem.COM Subject: Is this for real? - ------------ TEXT ATTACHMENT -------- SENT 01-27-94 FROM KRUSE_NEIL The following was forwarded to me by a friend. I don't know if this is a joke or not. Either way, it is a funny story. Neil TOKYO (AP) -- Here in the chic pubs of the Aoyama district, the latest fad inspired by beer makers struggling through a sluggish economy is the flammable suds of the new Hydrogen Beer. The latest craze among the environmentally conscious crowd of twentysomethings, the "Suiso" beer made by the Asaka Beer Corporation has been extremely popular at karaoke sing-along bars and discotheques. Hydrogen, like helium, is a gas lighter than air. Because hydrogen molecules are lighter than air, sound waves are transmitted more rapidly; individuals whose lungs are filled with the nontoxic gas can speak with an uncharacteristically high voice. Exploiting this quirk of physics, chic urbanites can now sing soprano parts on karaoke sing-along machines after consuming a big gulp of Suiso beer. The drink comes in a transparent hexagonal bottle imported from the maker of the new American drink "Zima," according to Hideki Saito, marketing director of Asaka Beer Corp. While the bottles are imported from Tennessee, the labels are made with a 100% biodegradable polymer. The bottle caps are equipped with a safety valve to prevent excess build-up of pressure in high temperatures. The flammable nature of hydrogen has also become another selling point, even though Asaka has not acknowledged that this was a deliberate marketing ploy. It has inspired a new fashion of blowing flames from one's mouth using a cigarette as an ignition source. Many new karaoke videos feature singers shooting blue flames in slow motion, while flame contests took place in pubs everywhere in Tokyo on New Year's eve. So far, Asaka beer has insisted that the quantities of hydrogen used in the drinks is too low to create potential for bodily harm. In the factory, the carbon dioxide that is dissolved in the beer is partially extracted and replaced with hydrogen gas. Mr. Saito maintained that the remaining carbon dioxide mixed with hydrogen prevents the rate of combustion from increasing dramatically. Carbon dioxide is a nonflammable gas that is naturally contained in the exhaled breath of humans. However, the company has hesitated from marketing the product in the US due to legal complications. Each bottle of Suiso beer sells for approximately 1,200 yen, or eleven US dollars. The bottles are packed in special crates lined with concrete to prevent chain explosions in the event of a fire. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 1994 20:32:47 -0500 (EST) From: DAVE1683 at delphi.com Subject: Zymurgy Info I am looking for an address or phone number in order to subscribe to Zymurgy. Can someone please help? Thanks...dave Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 11:05:22 MST From: birkelan at adtaz.sps.mot.com (Joel Birkeland) Subject: Used equipment prices People frequently want to know if they are paying too much for their homebrewing equipment. I have recently purchased a bunch of used brewing equipment and related paraphernalia and I thought I would share what I paid for it. All of the items were purchased at Phoenix AZ Park and Swap: 10 Gallon SS pot, heavy gauge $38 (no handles or lid) dual-gauge Taprite CO2 regulator $10 20 lb Detecto spring balance $8 5 lb CO2 tank with valve $15 5 gallon ball-lock keg $5 Ohaus Harvard Trip Balance $25 Also, I saw the following, which I did not purchase: Ohaus Triple beam balance $10 (missing two sliders) 5 gal cheapie SS pots $19 (new, made in Thailand, incl lid) Ancient 5 gal. glass carboys $7 ea I just wanted to let people know that if they are patient, and keep their eyes open, they can get their brewing equipment for a lot less than they might think. Joel Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 13:34:17 EST From: dan_fox at ccmail.GSFC.NASA.GOV Subject: Igloo coolers OK, I'll bite (or kick off the discussion). Of what possible use to a homebrewer is a large plastic picnic cooler full of grain? Is there instructions about this in a FAQ? I've just been using steel pots and such. I have seen much mention of the practice here. Forgive the emperor's clothes type questions; I'm the eternal newbie. Dan Fox - "In cyberspace, no-one can hear you DOHHHHHH!" Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 10:58:54 -0800 (PST) From: gummitch at teleport.com (Jeff Frane) Subject: Re: Those Yeast Names Norm Pyle wrote: (after Jim Busch wrote:) > > >Yeast: Wyeast London, Youngs, Fullers cultures. > > Why the London? This is not a flame, I'm just curious. London is famous for > its porters, whereas the good bitters are from Burton-on-Trent and scattered > parts, no? I would assume that the British ale yeast would be best for > bitters (and best bitters). Of course, this is assuming that Wyeast's naming > scheme is something more than random choice of names (bad assumption?). > Ulick writes later in the same HBD: "(but then Wyeast names often have no > relation to the source). Hmmmm.... > Although London is famous for its porters (among beer aficionados, anyway), it's only famous in an historical sense; same goes for Burton and bitters. There are two very good, large breweries in London (Fullers and Young's) and they are known for their bitters, primarily. (Remember Fuller's ESB? Young's Special London Ale?) So: Wyeast London. Apropos of which, a rave! for that yeast strain. I've just bottled a bitter I used it for, and have a strong ale fermenting with it now. Vigorous, excellent floculator, and (humility isn't my strong point!) the beers are excellent. I believe it can be considered much more stable than 1056, and it is my new ale yeast of choice. WYeast names often *do* have a relation to the source -- provided you know the source. - --Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 14:14:55 EST From: snystrom at aol.com Subject: Brewferm and boiling I just finished by third batch of brew and purchased a Brewferm Wheat Beer kit. Iwas surprised upon reading the instructions that no boiling was suggested. Is this safe, or am I taking a massive risk of contracting a nasty infection? I know others who have complained about the Brewferm Framboise (raspberry) kits, saying they smelled great during the boil but were greatly lacking in raspberry flavor and aroma in the finished product. Any tips or personal experience with these kits would be helpful. Also, I purchased a packet of the Belgian white beer liquid yeast (3944?) and was wondering what the temperature range is for this product. Thanks in advance Scott Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 14:26:09 EST From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com> Subject: High O.G. culturing Jim Busch writes in HBD #1335: > No!!!!! Never , ever culture from a high gravity beer. The upper end "rule > of thumb" is 1.060. What is the reason for this rule? Is it because the yeast will tend to become overattenuative? I brought some "Verboden Vrucht", brewed by Hoegaarden, back from a business trip near there and was planning on using the yeast from the bottom of the bottle. Verboten Vrucht is 9% a.b.v. so I'm pretty sure the O.G. > 1.060! I have no clue as to whether this is just a bottling strain or the fermentation strain. - -- Jim Grady grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 12:57:53 MST From: abirenbo at redwood.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim) Subject: Coors SpringBock??? As i sleepily aroze from slumber this morning I cought part of a story on local TV news. Some journalist in his 50's was giving a very sophomoric report on the beer industry in relationship to a new coors specialty product. I believe he mentioned "Coors Spring bock". Anybody know about this? My HB club may be planning a trip to coors. perhaps we can find out when we talk to their representatives. Also... any comments on miller amber ale? miller velvet stout? aaron Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1336, 01/28/94