FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  Breckenridge brewing (Aaron Birenboim)
  Yeast for Bitters (Jim Busch)
  Remove me from your mailing list. (MICHAEL)
  hop filtering / stout (Carl Howes)
  Stanford machine down? (Mike Dix)
  bottles (nr706)
  pitch yeast before or after oxygenation? (Richard Dante)
  Homebrew Digest #1335 (J (Jim King)
  Crystallized Malt etc. ("Cliff Dominy" )
  about Lambic and Gueuse (perpete)
  Jim Busch Where Are You? (LUKASIK_D)
  Coors and specialty beers (28-Jan-1994 0911 -0500)
  Re: Culturing & stuff (Jim Busch)
  Calories and alcohol from homebrew (bickham)
  RE:CO2 in priming (Jim Doyle)
  Brewcap (Peter Rust)
  Brewferm (korz)
  Another question about dry hopping (Dan deRegnier)
  rye malt (florianb)
  Whitbread Best Bitter clone? (David Hinz W-641 548-3221 )
  Gott vs. Igloo lauter tuns (Richard Dante)


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For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 13:13:34 MST
From: abirenbo at redwood.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Subject: Breckenridge brewing


  Mark Bunster (mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu) wrote:
>Breckenridge seems to be a new micro (12,500 barrels a year--what's the limit
>at which a place becomes a mini?) that's contract brewed in Denver, and the
>IPA is ugly. Thin color, some off smell (sour, almost rancid but not in a
>spoiled kind of way, if that makes sense), and strange taste. No head either,
>but I seem to recall that's hard for an IPA. If it was spoiled I might feel
>better, but I don't think it was--it was just not good. Any other experiences
>with other styles from this brewer?

  Well... breckenridge started as a pub at a ski resort (in Breckenridge CO).
To the best of my knowledge, it was started by venture capitolists...
not the dream of a brewer.  They still have the original pub, where
they brew right behind the bar IN THE OPEN.  No seperate brewing
facilities kept hospital clean.

  As they grew, they opened a pub which happens to be right by the new
CO Rockies stadium.  They brew for bottling at this pub location.
Once again, the brewing facilities are near the kitchen and open to the
air of the pub.  The bottling line is seperated from the dining hall
only by a "devider" which does not reach the roof.  Seeing this, 
infection seems likely.

Yes, i've had the beer.  it all seems off.  I cannot say "infection" for
sure, but it seems likely.  Even without off flavors, the beer seems
to lean toward the banal side.  Cryin shame that such a wonderful pub
location (by the ball park) is going to waste.

   I'm absolutely astonished to see that these guys are actually
marketing their stuff out of state!!!

     aaron

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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 1994 15:28:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Yeast for Bitters

> From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
> >Yeast: Wyeast London, Youngs, Fullers cultures.
> 
> Why the London?  This is not a flame, I'm just curious.  London is famous for
> its porters, whereas the good bitters are from Burton-on-Trent and scattered
> parts, no?  I would assume that the British ale yeast would be best for
> bitters (and best bitters).  Of course, this is assuming that Wyeast's naming
> scheme is something more than random choice of names (bad assumption?).

Well, I wasnt trying to cover the entire spectrum.  Certainly the British 
yeast would be fine.  I actually dont have much current experience with these
Wyeasts, so I am going back a bit.  Doesnt London give a slight "woody" 
character to the beers?  I really like this in a bitter.  Certainly London
historically was know for its porters, but I loved the Youngs and 
Fullers bitters, as well as bitters brewed south of London.  The Larkins
brewery strain gave excellent results, reletively clean but slight woody
character, great performer, top cropper... My current bitter would be the
real thing if I hadnt used american ale yeast... As for the bitters brewed
north, thats another trip :-).

Best,
Jim Busch



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Date:     Thu, 27 Jan 1994 16:01 EDT
From: MICHAEL at ROO.FIT.EDU
Subject:  Remove me from your mailing list.

> Please remove me from your mailing list.
>
> Thank you.
>
> michael at roo.fit.edu 

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Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 16:21:11 EST
From: sdlsb.dnet!73410%sdlcc at swlvx2.msd.ray.com (Carl Howes)
Subject: hop filtering / stout

The two major categories of response to my hop removal query were pour
through a kitchen strainer and siphon using a stainless or copper scrubbing
pad on the kettle end of the hose.  I have not yet tried the latter but had
problems with pouring three gallons of concentrated wort in any kind of a
controlled fashion.  One suggested whirlpooling to create a pile of hops
and cold break in the center of the pot and siphoning from the edge.  This
will have to wait until I get a bigger pot - three ounces of hop flowers
(from plugs) fills about a third of my current boiling pot.

PBrooks asked about my fermentation temperature.  Since I am very pleased
with the results on this batch, here is the recipie which I dubbed
Krakastouta after my airlock went flying about 40 hours after pitching.

2# Pale malt
1# Flaked barley
0.75# Crystal malt
1# Roasted barley
7# M&F light DME
2 oz Chinook (12.5 A)
Wyeast #1084 Irish Ale

Mash pale malt and flaked barley at 156-160F for 1.5 hours.  Steep crystal
and roasted barley for 45 minutes after raising to 160F.  Sparge.  Raise
to 180F and add extract.  Raise to boiling and add hops.  Boil for 90
minutes to drive off hop aromatics.  Strain into carboy and top off with
water.  Pitch yeast from swelled package and shake well.  O.G. 1.067, F.G.
1.017.  Bottled with 3/4 cup of corn sugar and conditioned at room temp
for a month.  Fermentation and conditioning were both at 65-70F.

My target was Guiness and aside from deciding not to try duplicating the
sour note this got closer than I had any reason to expect.  This makes
an excellent dry stout IMNSHO.

Carl
73410 at sdlcc.msd.ray.com


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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 18:45:51 "PST
From: Mike Dix <mdix at dcssc.sj.hp.com>
Subject: Stanford machine down?

I have been trying to retrieve archive files from sierra.stanford.edu for
a couple of days now without success.   Previously, it has worked like
a good thing.  Is the machine down,  overworked, etc?

Thanks,

Mike Dix

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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 01:15:10 EST
From: nr706 at aol.com
Subject: bottles

Has anyone recently sung the praises of Joseph Huber Brewing in Monroe,
Wisconsin? Their beer is available in the Chicago area in returnable bottles
for less than $7 a case. While the beer is at best drinkable (I prefer their
Rhinelander brand to their Huber), the bottles seem strong, and the labels
soak off easily. Can anyone else cite a better source of bottles for their
homebrew?
BTW, not associated with Huber, just a satisfied/impressed customer.

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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 22:56:34 PST
From: rdante at icogsci1.UCSD.EDU (Richard Dante)
Subject: pitch yeast before or after oxygenation?


Is there a reason to pitch yeast after one's thru fiddling with the wort
(finish siphoning, oxygenation, etc.)?  I just pour my yeast in while my
wort siphons thru my counterflow chiller and then I do the carboy twist
for a bout a minute to oxygenate (should I dance with my carboy longer then
this or am I oxygenating it plenty?)  Just about everything I read suggests
that people usually pitch their yeast after they shake their wort. 
What's wrong with shaking the wort with the yeast?


BTW I usually get bubbling within 6 hours and crap burping out my blowoff
tube within 12.

Rick Dante
rdante at ucsd.edu

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Date: Thu, 27 Jan 94 14:16:00 -0800
From: jim.king at kandy.com (Jim King)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1335 (J


In answer to the questions about cooler mashing:

H>I predict this will be the start of an interesting discussion on Coole
H>Tun practices. It reminded me of a question that I asked our brewshop 
H>Seichert, and that is "How deep can/should the grain bed be?" His answ
H>one half of the shortest cross sectional dimension. For example, in a 
H>high cooler, the maximum grainbed depth should be 7 inches. 

  I use a 52 quart cooler, and have filled it more than half way (for a 
REALLY dark barley wine.)  I turn my tubing with the slits downward so 
that the weight of the grain cannot aid in clogging any slits.  Plus, 
there are 4 PVC pipes with slits on the bottom, so even if a few get 
clogged, the sparge will not get stuck.

  BTW, I too have had no problem with temperature loss during the mash. 
 I lose about 15 degrees from the strike temperature when adding the 
water to the grain, but less than 5 degrees over a mash, even if it 
takes 2 hours.  I usually strike at 170, making the mash about 155.


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Date:         28 Jan 94 14:00:39 SAST-2
From: "Cliff Dominy" <CLIFF at micro.uct.ac.za>
Subject:      Crystallized Malt etc.

I am a novice brewer, who as recently been given 1.5kg of
crystallized malt. Can I treat this as I would a malt extract, or
does it require an amylase step in order to break down the
carbohydrates further ? One other question : What are finings - and
when does one add them to a brew?

Many thanks

Cliff Dominy
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|       (^)___(^)
| Cliff Dominy   cliff at micro.uct.ac.za  |         (O^O)
| Fax :  27 21   650 - 4023             |-----ooO--(*)--Ooo---
|                                       |---|---|---|---|---|-
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~-|---|---|---|---|---
                                         ---|---|---|---|---|-
                                         -----ooO-------Ooo---
                                               ~~       ~~

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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 13:42:01 +0100
From: perpete at inbr.ucl.ac.be
Subject: about Lambic and Gueuse

 
Last week, somebody has requested informations about Lambic.
I have reply once time but I didn't  find the E-mail adress.
Please, may you send a mail for I answeer you.
 
 Thanks
PERPETE Philippe.
Laboratoire des industries et technologies brassicoles.
INBR - U.C.L.
Place croix du sud, 2; bte 7
1348    	       	       	LLN
010/47 87 62


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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 09:48:24 -0500 (EST)
From: LUKASIK_D at sunybroome.edu
Subject: Jim Busch Where Are You?

Can anyone out there (Jim?) give me an internet address for Jim Busch?
I have tried to contact him several time at "busch at daacdevl.stx.com" and 
have gotten the mail back as undeliverable?  I would like to "talk" directly
rather than use up band width on the HBD and he has written several things
that would directly impact my brewing, etc.  

TIA

Doug.   (Internet:  Lukasik_d at sunybroome.edu)

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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 09:47:30 EST
From: 28-Jan-1994 0911 -0500 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Coors and specialty beers

The Wall Street Journal recently (this week) had an article on the business
of the big breweries in the US.  The article mentioned that Coors is planning
on rolling out 3 new brews in '94:

	Spring Bock	(for the spring)
	A wheat brew (summer)
	Octoberfest (fall)

JC
	

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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 10:34:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Culturing & stuff

RE: Mashing raw wheat:
> 
> Bring 2 gallons water to boil. Add unmalted wheat and hold at 185-195
> degrees for 20 minutes. 

A good Wit can also be made exclusively using staged protein rests.  THe
entire grain bill is combined and held through numerous protein rests,
and then an upward step mash will convert the mash.  I suspect the same
can be said of raw Rye, although I have no experience with Rye. I find the
protein rests a bit easier than the other method.
**************
> Subject: RE: Oktoberfest trip and Munich Brewery Tours

>         Reserved seats at an Oktoberfest Tent 
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

	Now thats worth some extra bucks!!!

> Brewery/Beer Hall Tours:
>         Forshungsbraurei
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!! Great place, not to be missed.
*************
John writes about culturing:
> 
> 
 I didnt say to use liquid only, I just prefer it.  I really doubt that with
 typical streaking done in the home that you would steak down to the point where
 you could be certain that there was only one cell per growth node.

I disagree.  THe point is that you do multiple streaks on the plate, crossing
each streak with the loop, until there is a very thin line of yeast.  This 
line of yeast will show clumps of colonies of cells.  The very small colonies
will be a collection of homogenious copies of the parent cells.  Yes, they
are not "one cell per node" , but who cares?  They are copies of the cell,
and it is not too difficult to see when one is contaminated.
> 
> Especially in the summer, even in a hood, you will occasionally get airborn
> stuff landing on a section of exposed agar (or landing on the yeast) and get
> contamination.  As explained in my article on sterile transfer techniques in
> the Zymurgy yeast issue, you can avoid potential contamination problems by
> using liquid.

I'm not trying to start a flame fest here, but if you dont start from a 
plate, how do know how "pure" the original liquid yeast source is?  For all
practical matters, one can pay close attention to the fermentation performance 
of each batch, and base the results on this.  I am quite sure that both of
the methods being described will make good beer, none of us do everything 
the same, its what makes brewing unique and interesting.
> 
> >Additionally, it is my belief that slants/plates can last longer as a 
> >stable culture than a liquid culture.
> 
 Plates that undergo temperature changes are going to respire and possibly suck
 in contamination.  I keep liquid yeast stored  at  28 degrees F in surplus
> vacutainers (test tubes with septa stoppers so you can add and remove yeast
> and maintain sterility), as well as other vessels with hypodermic septa
> attached. These cultures last for months between restarting.  Adding glycerine
> to the liquid will allow you to further reduce the temperature and increase
 storage life.  Being under liquid at low temps reduces exposure to O2.  Many of
 my microbiologist aquaintances store liquid yeast in this mannor just like they
> do in their labs.

I believe the Lab floks are much more likely to store slants under -70C ,
or somewhere way down there....Reculturing frequencies of 6-12 months are 
still advisable.  Plates are definetly less stable media, they are for 
short term storage/selection of strains to be looped into the slant.  
> 
> >Due mainly to the fact that the
> >medium is solid, therefore nutrients will diffuse to the culture in a 
> >slower fashion
> 
 I am not aware of nutrients diffusing thru chilled agar at any appreciable rate
 (I would welcome any citations), most organisms try to grow across agar to get
 to nutrients.  The so called unfermentables can be utilized, at much slower
 rate.  

Right, it is the reduction of the rate of metabolism of the cell that increases
the shelf life.
> 
> sterilized with this. I have autoclaving trays, but aluminum foil will work
 nicely for wrapping the tools.  The biggest hassle for me as a cultivater was
 to construct a glove box, and buying a high end pressure cooker - suplus places
 abound with the rest of the toys.

John Mallett, brewmaster at Old Dominion, wrote a good article in the New 
Brewer magazine showing how a simple UV light sanitary glove box can be 
constructed, including parts numbers.  The main cost is around $24 for 
the UV bulb.

ONe of my main concerns with packaged yeast is shelf life.  If the yeast
is stored away from a nutrient source, it eventually will experience glycogyn
depletion, which results in less than optimum sterol synthesis.  The simple
remedy is to feed the yeast.  
> 
> Subject: High O.G. culturing
> 
> Jim Busch writes in HBD #1335:
> 
> > No!!!!!  Never , ever culture from a high gravity beer. The upper end "rule
> > of thumb" is 1.060.
> 
> What is the reason for this rule?  Is it because the yeast will tend to
> become overattenuative?  

OK, except for high gravity Belgian strains :_)  Is Verboden Vrucht bottle
conditioned?   Since the Belgian strains are pretty hard to come by, you
can do some very small test ferments, and if the results are positive, go
with the strain. I believe higher ABV levels can lead to mutations, and a
thinning of the cell wall (is this right??).  I gotta ask my yeast doctor.

> Subject: Coors SpringBock???

I have heard that Coors will have several seasonals: Spring Bock/Maibock,
Weizen, Maerzen, and that Winterthing.

Grateful fermenting,

Jim Busch

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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 11:44:07 -0500 (EST)
From: bickham at msc.cornell.edu
Subject: Calories and alcohol from homebrew

This topic has come up a number of times, so I've written a relatively
short Fortran program based on various formulas George Fix has posted
on this subject.  The output of the program is three tables showing
the percent alcohol, calories, and percent calories from alcohol as a
function of the original and final apparent gravities.  I'll also send
a copy of this to the homebrew archives at sierra.stanford.edu.  Any flames 
on my using Fortran code will be forwarded to /dev/null ;-)

Here it is:

c  This program calculates the caloric content of homebrew using the
c  formulas posted to the Homebrew Digest by George Fix.
c  Written by Scott Bickham (bickham at msc.cornell.edu)

      double precision a(10),og,re(10),fg(10),oe(10)
      double precision ae(10),cal(10),pfa(10)
      integer i,j
      open (unit=11, file='alc.dat',status='new')
      open (unit=12, file='cal.dat',status='new')
      open (unit=13, file='pfa.dat',status='new')
c
c  Loop through the original and final apparent (measured) gravities. The 
c  increments, and starting and ending values can be changed as needed.
c
      do 5 j=1,10
         fg(j)=1.004 + j*0.002
 5    continue
c
c  Identify and label the columns in the tables
c
      write (11,*) "                    Percent Alcohol by Weight"
      write (11,*) "   "
      write (11,*) "                            Final Gravity"
      write (11,300) "  O.G.",(fg(j),j=1,10)
      write (11,*) " ----------------------------------------------------
     z------------------------"
      write (12,*) "                             Calories"
      write (12,*) "   "
      write (12,*) "                            Final Gravity"
      write (12,300) "  O.G.",(fg(j),j=1,10)
      write(12,*) " -----------------------------------------------------
     z-----------------------"
      write (13,*) "                 Percent of Calories from Alcohol"
      write (13,*) "   "
      write (13,*) "                            Final Gravity"
      write (13,300) "  O.G.",(fg(j),j=1,10)
      write (13,*) " ----------------------------------------------------
     z------------------------"
      do 10 i=1,20
         do 20 j=1,10
            og=1.030 + i*0.002
c
c  The next two lines use the factor of 4 formula to convert from hydrometer 
C  readings to degress Plato
c
c            oe(j)=(og-1.00)*1000.0/4.0
c            ae(j)=(fg(j)-1.00)*1000.0/4.0
c
c  These use a quadratic fit to the Plato tables for better results
c
            oe(j)=668.72*og -463.37 -205.347*og*og
            ae(j)=668.72*fg(j) -463.37 -205.347*fg(j)*fg(j)
c
c  Calculate the real extract from the original and apparent extracts,
c  then find the calories and percent alcohol by weight
c
            re(j)=0.1808*oe(j) + 0.8192*ae(j)
            a(j)=(oe(j)-re(j))/(2.0665-0.010665*oe(j))
            cal(j)=(6.9*a(j) + 4.0*(re(j) - 0.1))*3.55*fg(j)
c
c  The percent of the calories from alcohol is given by:
c
            pfa(j)=100.0*6.9*a(j)/(6.9*a(j) +4.0*(re(j)-0.1))

100         format (1f7.3,10f7.2)
200         format (1f7.3,10f7.1)
300         format (1a7,10f7.3)
 20       continue
          write (11,100) og,(a(j),j=1,10)
          write (12,200) og,(cal(j),j=1,10)
          write (13,200) og,(pfa(j),j=1,10)
 10    continue
       end


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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 1994 09:04:53 -0700
From: Jim Doyle <jgdoyle at uci.edu>
Subject: RE:CO2 in priming

I saw this bit of advice in today's HBD, and thought I should throw in a
bit of my own...

>"Prior to transfering wort, whether into secondary or bottling carboy,
>a small piece of dry ice in the empty carboy will fill it with CO2 and
>prevent any oxidation from agitation."

I would warn that *some* dry ice contains benzene which is classified as a
carcinogen (class 2).  As a buyer for a university, this has come to my
attention in the past...

I won't venture to say that small amounts of dry-ice-induced-benzene will
turn your homebrew into cancer causing swill or anything, and we must
remember that "without chemicals-life itself would be impossible"!!

That's about enough from me...

jgdoyle at uci.edu        -but my friends call me Chance



 




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Date: 28 Jan 94 14:02:44 EST
From: Peter Rust <73552.2074 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Brewcap

In response to:
>>Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 15:44:33 -0400 (EDT)
>>From: RADAMSON at delphi.com
>>Subject: Albany,NY fest & BrewCap
>>New to me is the BrewCap contraption. I'm hesitant to use it, fearing 5 
gal throughout my carpets.
>>If anyone has any experienced tips for using this thing, please pass 
along.  I admit I'm very
>>curious about it and sounds like a good idea, but I'd like to get all the 
angles beforehand, and 
>>the bad experiences second-hand. Thanks.

I purchased a brewcap several months ago after getting positive email on 
the item from another forum but would not recommend it.  The device is  
supposed to allow you to do the primary and secondary ferments and bottle 
priming all in one carboy without transferring the beer.  I found the 
device difficult to use, extremely time consuming and not worth the effort 
for the following reasons.
1. It does not leak but I was unable to get the blowoff to effectively work 
its way out of the blowoff tube.  The inverted carboy is wide at the top 
and the blowoff tended to stick to the sides, the top and float all around 
the opening of the blow off tube.  I tried changing the level of the tube 
but this did not help.  The directions indicate that you have to rotate the 
carboy several times a day in order to keep the foam from sticking to the 
glass!
2. The tube on the bottom was designed to collect the yeast sediment but it 
was way too small to do this properly.  As the yeast started to settle out, 
you could withdraw some yeast but as the sedimentation rate increased the 
tube would clog at the bottom of the inverted carboy. 
3. You can add priming sugar to the beer with the brewcap but there is no 
way to mix the solution without disturbing the scum stuck to the sides/top 
and if all of the yeast was not filtered out this will drain into your 
bottles.



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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 13:10 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Brewferm

Scott writes:
>I just finished by third batch of brew and purchased a Brewferm Wheat Beer
>kit. Iwas surprised upon reading the instructions that no boiling was
>suggested.
>Is this safe, or am I taking a massive risk of contracting a nasty infection?
>I know others who have complained about the Brewferm Framboise (raspberry)
>kits, saying they smelled great during the boil but were greatly lacking in
>raspberry flavor and aroma in the finished product.

After tasting the Brewferm Kriek [sic] kit made with a boil, I decided to
try making it without a boil as it says in the instructions.  Instead of
adding corn sugar as directed, I used two cans in a 5-gallon batch (note:
VERY EXPENSIVE!).

I brought 4.75 gallons to a boil, turned off the heat, added the extract,
stirred, chilled, aerated, put it in a carboy, pitched Wyeast London Ale #1028,
etc., etc.

The result: no infection (after a year in the bottle, even) but the flavor
was very disappointing.  Very little cherry flavor, even at double the 
normal usage.  It's drinkable, not remotely anything like a real Kriek,
but for the money ($17.00/can -- $34 for this batch!), it was a bust.
I suspect that the Framboise [sic] may be

I've never made, but have tasted some of the other Brewferm Kits.  There
are some interesting flavors there, but I think that the Kriek [sic] kit
was not worth the money I paid for it.

Al.

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Date:        Fri, 28 Jan 94 15:15:16 EST
From: Dan deRegnier <YC06 at MUSIC.FERRIS.EDU>
Subject: Another question about dry hopping

Hello all--

I still consider myself a rookie (7 batches) and would like to improve
the quality of my brew.  I have been following the thread of dry
hopping.  My next batch is going to be a czech pilsner.  Is it
appropriate to dry hop this style?  If so, with what.  I reviewed the
hop faq but it doesn't really address what styles of beers are dry
hopped and which are not.  If it does, I missed it.  Where can I get
info. on which styles are dry hopped?

I have visited the Grand Rapids Brewing Co., Grand Rapids, MI.  I only
had time to try the sampler (4 oz. of their 5 styles), but I liked what
I had.  I am going back to do some more taste test.  Anyone else tried
it.  Anyone else heard of it?

Thanks for your help.

*********************************
Daniel P. deRegnier, MS, MT(ASCP)
Ferris State University
yc06 at music.ferris.edu
yc06 at ferris.bitnet
*********************************






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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 12:15:45 PST
From: florianb at computer.cna.tek.com
Subject: rye malt

c-amb at math.utah.edu writes:

> My recipie will be based on the following ratio's:
>  50 - 60% rye malt

And  tlyons at netcom.com (Tom Lyons) replies:

>You will end up with the mother of all stuck runoffs, I'm  

I've used rye in many recipes throughout the years. My experience is that
you don't even have to use malted rye. You can simply obtain rye berries
from the bulk grocery and grind them directly with the other malted grains.
However, in this form, only a pound or two should be used in the recipe 
unless you can compensate with a few pounds of 6-row. Otherwise you will
have conversion problems.

The mash will become hopelessly stuck in most circumstances. I remedy this
by using a kabob skewer to poke holes in the filter bed. Sometimes, I scrape
the top of the filter bed to allow better seepage. This is similar to what
commercial brewers do with automatic machinery.

Rye will produce a flavor in pale ale that I can only describe as "pointed."
In some recipes it will produce what I call a "dirty-sock" flavor. Imagine
taking an old athletic sock that's been buried in a sneaker under a chicken
coop (thanks, Hawkeye) for a hundred years, and jamming it in your mouth.
That's what I mean. (It's a flavor featured by most of the microbrewed beers
here in Oregon.) It's not mold, wild yeast, nor bacteria. It's some wierd
combination of chemicals.

Rye also imparts a grayish tone to the color of pale ale.

Good luck on using it. I've never had much luck with it.

An alternative grain is rolled triticale, which I sometimes put into the
mash. It also lends a "pointed" flavor that avoids the dirty-sock effect.
It is useful in pale ales, light ales, and wheat beer. I recommend only
about 1/2 pound per.

Florian


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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 15:24:51 CST
From: hinz at bass.med.ge.com (David Hinz W-641 548-3221 )
Subject: Whitbread Best Bitter clone?


Greetings, all.

I just returned from a wonderful couple of months in England, and
now that I've returned I would like to get a recipe for a
clone of Whitbread best bitter.  I know the whitbread yeast is
available at my local brewing store, so what else do I need?
Extract or all-grain would be equally welcome.  (no snobbery
here!)

Thanks muchly,
Dave Hinz

PS  Not only was the beer fantastic, but the pints in England
are 20 ounces, not the wimpy 16 we have here!

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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 23:42:33 PST
From: rdante at icogsci1.UCSD.EDU (Richard Dante)
Subject: Gott vs. Igloo lauter tuns


Could somebody please enlighten me on the following:

Which is better for mashing, the infmaous Gott 5 gallon cylinder or the
Igloo version of the same thing?

I vaguely remember mention that the plastic Gott/Rubermaid uses handles heat
better than Igloos but I'd like some confirmation. I'm getting fed up with the
mediocre brews I've been making from $1.70/lb bulk Alexander's extract and
am slowly gathering supplies for all-grain (just plunked down $42.50 + a
whopping $16 S&H for a 15.5 gal straight sided keg brewkettle from BCI).
RIght now everybody seems to be out of Gott coolers until spring (Sears,
Kmart) but the local Costco has 5 gal Igloos for $17 or $18. Should I look
around some more for a Gott or wait until the stores start stocking them
or should I just buy the Igloo?  I might brew a few batches of meads and
I still have 6# of pale extract I need to brew so I'd rather wait if consensus
is that Gott coolers are better than igloos.

Thanks for helping me begin my move to the joys of all-grain brewing :)


Rick Dante
rdante at ucsd.edu

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1337, 01/29/94