FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  homebrew buzz (Jim King)
  Re: brown malt (Jim Grady)
  Re : yeast culturing (Conn Copas)
  Read Ale ("John Hutchinson ")
  Texas Brew Pub Laws ("John Hutchinson ")
  Kolsch recipe (jerryb7595)
  Brown malt (WESTEMEIER)
  Checker pH Meter (steevd)
  Forwarded: Travel advice desired (fswa/S=S.HOLZMAN/OU1=R08A)
  rude call/cannabis/salty flavor? (James Clark)
  Brekenridge brewery (Brian Bliss)
  How to unstick a stuck fermentation (Jay Lonner)
  priming (one more bit) and Breckenridge (Dick Dunn)
  Re: hop filtering (Jim Grady)
  Cliff Dominy asks about Crystal lized malt (BIO)" <tillman at chuma.cas.usf.edu>
  winemaking (JHENKE)
  cancellation of subscription ("Charlene M. Greene")
  archives without ftp (/R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/)
  bottles, praises (esonn1)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 28 Jan 94 14:44:00 -0800
From: jim.king at kandy.com (Jim King)
Subject: homebrew buzz


H>I have heard a few people talk about using cannabis in place of finish
H>hops.  And also that either the flavor or the effect could be achieved
H>depending on methods used.  Does anybody have any suggestions?

  Since the hop plant and the cannabis plant are closely related, it 
would probably give you something that wouldn't be radically different. 
 In fact, they even smell similar.  OTOH, since cannabis is illegal in 
America, you probably won't see many people trying this, or admitting to
it even if they did.  If you go to Amsterdam and try this, let us know 
the results. <grin>


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Date: Sat, 29 Jan 94 7:36:41 EST
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Re: brown malt

Randall Bowen asks about brown malt in HBD #1336.  According to Terry
Foster in his book "Porter," brown malt is no longer made.  It was a
"high-dried" malt but was not as dark as modern high-dried or roasted
malts.  I t had enough diastatic power to be the main malt in a porter.
It fell out of favor with the increased use of the hydrometer; brewers
learned that although it was cheaper per pound than pale malt, the
extract efficiency was not nearly as great.  Once this was learned,
brewers shifted to pale malt as the workhorse with caramel and darker
roasted malts added for flavor and color.
- --
Jim Grady             
grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com

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Date: Sat, 29 Jan 94 14:52:37 GMT
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re : yeast culturing

Streaking yeast out holds some traps for the unwary which have not been given
sufficient publicity, IMHO. In particular, I'm dubious about being able to
identify visually anything but gross contaminations, such as mould and
bacteria. It's easy to pick a single colony and grow up a perfectly pure 
culture of wild yeast. Two morals here: (a) it can be a good idea to make up
multiple rather than single starters from plates, and (b) as Jim Busch says,
tasting provides the ultimate test. 

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Date: Sat, 29 Jan 94 08:27:43 PST
From: "John Hutchinson " <jhutchin at us.oracle.com>
Subject: Read Ale



HDB Readers I several unrelated brewing questions:

1. Could someone send me or post a good Red Ale (like Killians by Coors) and
what makes it red? Hopefully not red food dye!!

2. Has anyone used or ordered any equipment from 'pico-Brewing Systems Inc.' in
Ypsilanti, MI? I faxed a request to the number advertised in 'Zymurgy' Fall
1993 but have not received a response.

3. Has anyone used the "Ultimate Fermenter" as advertised in the same issue of
Zymurgy. It is being sold by The Brewery and has an airlock and spigot at the
bottom. Is it worth $29.95 usd?



John Hutchinson
214.401.5777
Dallas Consulting Office


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Date: Sat, 29 Jan 94 08:33:51 PST
From: "John Hutchinson " <jhutchin at us.oracle.com>
Subject: Texas Brew Pub Laws


Texas HBD Readers

Not being a true Native Texan, could anyone suggest how I can get a laymans
copy and interpretation of the revised Brew pub laws and liquor licensing laws.


John Hutchinson
214.401.5777 work voicemail

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Date: Sat, 29 Jan 94 14:16:41 EST
From: jerryb7595 at aol.com
Subject: Kolsch recipe

To the person (cannot remember who) who was looking for some good Kolsch
recipes.  

Here's a good looking one sent to me by John (bruticus at hebron.connected.com).
 Looks tasty, probably is, although the lucky West Coast devils probably get
some mighty nice hops to put in there.
****
Hey Jerry, Got a great recipe for you.  Sorry it took so long.  
Ingredients for 12.5 gallons: 18 lbs 2 row pale malt, 9 lbs wheat, 3 oz 
Hallertauer hops for 60 min and 2.5 oz hallertauer hops for 15 min after 
boil is completed.
MASH- 140 degrees for 30 min, raise to 153 until conversion is complete.
Sparge with 170 degree water, Bring to boil and add 1st hops, after a 60 
min boil shut off heat and add 2nd hops, let sit for 15 min then begin 
cooling.  Here comes the critical part of making a good Kolsch- Ferment 
at 65 degrees for 3 days, raise to 70 for diacetyl rest for 1 day.  Then 
drop temperature 10 degrees a day until you reach 30 , hold 30 for 10 
days, and then I kegged.  I put 5 gal in a keg at 50 degrees and began 
dringing good beer, the other 7.5 gal was kegged and lagered for another 
2 wks, then I drank super brew.  I used a good Kolsch yeast from Siebol 
Inst, but wyeyeast has an excellant yeast for this brew.  My OG was 1.041 
and finished at 1.009, IBU's were 14 with a color of SRM 3.5
Irish moss helps clear it up also.  Hope yu enjoy it as much as I do.  
Post this if you like.
                          John Sec/Trea for life
                     Y.E.A.S.T. Yakima Enthusiastic Ale And Stout Tasters
****
Happy brewing!

Jerry Brown  (jerryb7595 at aol.com)

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Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 14:40:20 -0500 (EST)
From: WESTEMEIER at delphi.com
Subject: Brown malt

rlbowen at ingr.com asks:
 
> My question concerns the "brown malt". What does this term refer to?
 
 
Brown malt is no longer made commercially, but was the predominant malt
available a couple of hundred years ago in England.
 
You will have to make your own, but it's not too difficult.
 
Here is how I make it:
 
Take ordinary pale ale malt, and spread it on a cookie sheet no more
than about one-half inch 1 cm) in depth.
Put it in the oven (a convection oven is best, but an ordinary oven
will do a decent job) at 45 minutes  at  230 !F to dry it out.  
Then 45 min  at  300 !F, followed by 15 min  at  350!F, then turn off oven 
and allow it to cool down.  You now have pretty authentic brown malt.
 
By the way, this information (and much more) is available in the book
"Old British Beers," published by the Durden Park Beer Circle.
My understanding is that a new printing has recently been made, so
it may be available again.  Perhaps Geoff Cooper could provide more
information on how to obtain a copy.  Geoff?
 
- -- Ed Westemeier
- -- Cincinnati, Ohio
- -- westemeier at delphi.com

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Date: Sat, 29 Jan 94 18:14:22 EST
From: steevd at aol.com
Subject: Checker pH Meter

Has anyone bought one of those Checker brand pH meters advertised
in Zymurgy?  They seem like an incredible value at less than 40
bucks, considering they have a double offset and a resolution of
0.01 pH units.  What I'm really trying to find out is: are they
relatively sturdy; are they accurate to within at least 0.1 pH
units; do they hold their calibration well?  Any comments will be
appreciated.

Cheers!

Steve Daniel, League City, Texas

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Date: 30 Jan 94 00:12:52 GMT
From: fswa/S=S.HOLZMAN/OU1=R08A at mhs.attmail.com
Subject: Forwarded: Travel advice desired

Content-Type:               text
Content-Length: 00000000052

From: Steve Holzman:R8
Date: ## 01/29/94 20:12 ##
 

Content-Type:               text
Content-Length: 00000000871

From: Steve Holzman
Date: ## 01/29/94 19:57 ##
I'm leaving that Great Beer Wasteland (Georgia) and heading to that 
Great Beer Nirvana (Oregon).  My travels will take me through 
Shreveport-Dallas-Oklahoma City-Amarillo-Albuquerque(hope, I don't 
take any wrong turns like Bugs always does)-Flagstaff-Barstow-SF- 
Eureka-Portland.  I've got the Guide to Brewpubs (west) but was 
wondering if there are any places along the way that any 
self-respecting beerOphile just shouldn't miss.  I remember an 
afternoon in Shiner, TX - a great small town, a decent bock, and of 
course the factory where newspaper machines are made.  I know that 
this isn't RESTAURANT-L, but if anyone knows of any great local 
restaurants, I'd appreciate the tip.  Thanks in advance
Steve (my dad sold Schlitz for a living but I still love him) Holzman
fswa/s=s.holzman/ou=r08a at mhs.attmail.com


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Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 17:12:27 -0500
From: jeclark at bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (James Clark)
Subject: rude call/cannabis/salty flavor?

sorry, i'm too lazy to look at my back issues of the hbd to see who asked
these questions, but here are some answers:

someone wrote in about a rude phone call by a guy named mark rizzo to a
friend of his at a homebrew supply shop.  this sounds like a jerkey boy
prank.  the jerkey boys are guys from n.y. who record their prank calls. 
they are pretty popular among the younger generation here in california.  i
don't know if this was an actual jerky boy or just someone trying to be
cool, but i doubt they will call this, or any other shop, again:  i've
heard one of their tapes and the calls seem to be pretty random.

someone else asked about using cannabis instead of finishing hops.  i guess
it would work, since hops and cannabis are closely related, but why would
you want to do this?  THC is not water soluable (although it is alcohol
suluable) so if you are trying to make a beer that will get you high, it
won't work.  maybe the flavor will be different, but i seriously doubt it
is worth the extra cost and risk.

lastly, i have a little question:
my latest batch of homebrew has sort of salty flavor to it.  you can only
taste it if you are looking for it, so i think it is just a combination of
the strong malty flavor and all the hops i put in. (i dry hopped for about
10 days with about 1/2 oz. of 7.2% alpha willametes.  has any one else had
this problem, and if so, am i right about the source?

thanks in advance.

- --james clark

p.s. i dissagree with the person who stated that you have to aquire a taste
for belgian beers.  the first time i tried a cellis white i absollutely
loved it.


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Date: Sat, 29 Jan 1994 20:10:51 -0600
From: bliss at pixel.convex.com (Brian Bliss)
Subject: Brekenridge brewery


abirenbo at redwood.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim) writes:
>  Well... breckenridge started as a pub at a ski resort (in Breckenridge CO).
>To the best of my knowledge, it was started by venture capitolists...
>not the dream of a brewer.  They still have the original pub, where
>they brew right behind the bar IN THE OPEN.  No seperate brewing
>facilities kept hospital clean.
 ...
>Yes, i've had the beer.  it all seems off.  I cannot say "infection" for
>sure, but it seems likely.  Even without off flavors, the beer seems
>to lean toward the banal side.  Cryin shame that such a wonderful pub
>location (by the ball park) is going to waste.
 ...
>   I'm absolutely astonished to see that these guys are actually
>marketing their stuff out of state!!!

I was there just a month ago.  I love the beer - when it's fresh.
esp. the stout.   perhaps you got ahold of an old batch.  the bottles
say "keep refrigerated", and of the liquor stores that had it kept
it cold.  perhaps you're not getting the good stuff.  perhaps the
reason it's not stable is just what you pointed out.

bb


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Date: 29 Jan 1994 22:02:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Jay Lonner <8635660 at NESSIE.CC.WWU.EDU>
Subject: How to unstick a stuck fermentation

In true karmic fashion, I skimmed over the recent thread on stuck fermentations
and am now faced with one myself.  Couldn't find an answer in any of the faq's
at sierra.stanford so I turn to the group for help.

The situation:

I'm brewing a stout using Wyeast #1084 Irish.  Chilled wort to 70 (or so)
degrees prior to pitching the yeast from a 1-quart starter.  OG was 1.052,
fermantation temperature is 64 plus or minus 4 degrees. Within 10 hours there
was vigorous fermentation; after four days I was getting one pop from the
airlock every 80 seconds.  Trusting Miller, I racked to the secondary, only
to find that SG was at 1.032.  Four days later SG is 1.030, and while there is
still evidence of fermentation it is pretty meager (one pop from the airlock
every 90 seconds or so).  The recipe is Papazian's Toad Spit Stout, and FG is
supposed to get down around 1.015.

So which of the following is my best course of action?

1. repitch using my backup Munton & Fison's dry yeast
2. aerate beer and stir up settled yeast (and what risks do I run in doing
   this?)
3. add yeast nutrient (and which kind?  Ammonium phosphate or the spent yeast
   cell stuff?)
4. mellow out and wait two more weeks just to see what happens.

Next time I'm getting a bigger primary so I can aerate the hell out of the wort
prior to pitching (kind of hard to get much swooshing action in a 5 gallon
carboy filled almost to the neck).

Anyway, thanks in advance for any advice.

Jay.

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jay Lonner                 8635660 at nessie.cc.wwu.edu / jlonner at carleton.edu |
| Bellingham, WA                    "My right hand technique sucks." -- Slash |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Date: 30 Jan 94 00:11:43 MST (Sun)
From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: priming (one more bit) and Breckenridge

Somebody sent me a note about my "weigh, don't measure" minidiatribe,
pointing out that in the end I'd not said what quantity of priming sugar to
use.  The easy answer, of course, is "it depends"...

A good starting point, roughly equivalent to the "3/4 cup" rule of thumb,
is 4 oz of dextrose by weight for a 5-gallon batch (all US measure).  That
puts you in the right ballpark, from which you can adjust up or down for a
particular recipe.  As long as you've really fermented out, it shouldn't
overcarbonate.

I forgot to mention one more factor against use of volume measures for sugar:
weight/volume varies with grind.  For example, "powdered" (confectioner's)
sugar is ~ 3.25 oz for 3/4 C loose-packed; granulated sugar is 5.5 oz for
the same volume.  Typical dextrose for priming is midway between these two.
_ _ _ _ _

Breckenridge Brewery:  I have to agree with the recent criticisms in HBD.
They're not what I'd call the best examples of Colorado's breweries, to put
it kindly, and the trouble does seem to be in handling/bottling the beer. 
We had noted this early on, that the beer in the original brewery (up in
the kingdom of Breckenridge) was far better than the first bottles that
showed up down here.  Since we're only an hour or so away, it didn't seem
like it should have been so difficult to get decent beer here.  I'd thought
of problems like this as homebrewer's problems, not commercial ones.

mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu (Mark Bunster) commented:
> Breckenridge seems to be a new micro (12,500 barrels a year--what's the limit
> at which a place becomes a mini?) that's contract brewed in Denver,...

They're not new.  The original brewery in Breckenridge has been there for
several years.  It's not contract-brewed, again because they really did
start out in the town from which the brewery takes its name, although at
this point it seems like the Denver tail is wagging the Breckenridge dog.

> IPA is ugly. Thin color, some off smell (sour, almost rancid but not in a
> spoiled kind of way, if that makes sense), and strange taste...
> ...Any other experiences with other styles from this brewer?

We've had three of them (IPA--which is actually nothing like an IPA; stout;
something else that must have been awfully memorable;-) here at parties
recently.  None of them stood up to the other local micros; in fact they've
been quite disappointing.  The stout was the least annoying.  There seems
to be a style which imparts color without body--e.g., the stout is opaque
but thin (?!?).

abirenbo at redwood.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim) added:
> To the best of my knowledge, it was started by venture capitolists...

Was this true from the start?  The initial brewplace seemed like it was run
by a bunch of DeadHeads; I think they still have a subtle lightning-bolt
(not 13-point) reference to that on the label.  Gosh, I'd really like to
know that it was all just a front and there's been big money behind them
all along--hey, we need some local Koch-like scandal, something better
than Coors dumping old beer into Clear Creek!

[the Denver brewery]
> Once again, the brewing facilities are near the kitchen and open to the
> air of the pub.  The bottling line is seperated from the dining hall
> only by a "devider" which does not reach the roof.  Seeing this, 
> infection seems likely.

I wonder how much this matters.  What sorts of infection are likely?  I've
seen various micros which are...well, perhaps not open to a kitchen, but
not exactly clean-room character, and located in industrial districts.  It
would seem that it matters most if you get actual exposure to air once
you're into cool wort and fermenting.  I'm not saying Aaron is wrong, but
only that I wonder if this is enough to explain their shortcomings.

> Yes, i've had the beer.  it all seems off.  I cannot say "infection" for
> sure, but it seems likely.  Even without off flavors, the beer seems
> to lean toward the banal side...

Talking from a more local viewpoint (I think), I've not caught *serious* off-
flavors, but there are definitely things that don't belong.  Aaron seems most
on-target with the "banal" comment.  Those folks could give banality a bad
name.

>    I'm absolutely astonished to see that these guys are actually
> marketing their stuff out of state!!!

Hey, man, we keep the good stuff here!  Let 'em ship Breckenridge and
Rockies; we can get by with Wynkoop and High Country and O'Dell's and
Coopersmith's and Berger and New Belgium and Oasis and Walnut and...
 ---
Dick Dunn    rcd at eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd    Boulder, Colorado USA
   ...Mr Natural says, "Get the right tool for the job!"

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Date: Sun, 30 Jan 94 7:42:35 EST
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Re: hop filtering

Carl Howes writes:

> The two major categories of response to my hop removal query were pour
> through a kitchen strainer and siphon using a stainless or copper scrubbing
> pad on the kettle end of the hose.  I have not yet tried the latter but had
> problems with pouring three gallons of concentrated wort in any kind of a
> controlled fashion.

   When I did this, I used a sanitized, 1 qt. pyrex measuring cup to
   scoop the cooled wort out of the brew kettle and pour it through the
   kitchen strainer (actually I used a nylon straining bag and a BIG
   funnel).  It works quite well - gets you GREAT aeration!  I currently
   use the copper scrubber method with a counterflow chiller although I
   really cannot say one method is much better than the other - just my
   preference for now.
- --
Jim Grady             
grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com

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Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 12:42:26 -0500 (EST)
From: "Tim Tillman (BIO)" <tillman at chuma.cas.usf.edu>
Subject: Cliff Dominy asks about Crystal lized malt


Chris I think what you have is more commonly refered to as Dry malt 
extract.  This is mized in water for wort or used to prime.  For priming 
I use 1 - 1.25 cups of DME per 5 gallons.

Tim



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Date: Sun, 30 Jan 94 15:32:33 EST
From: JHENKE at ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: winemaking

	Can anyone tell me where I can get good winemaking supplies
in Indiana? or anywhere else?  I've tried several mail-order catalogs
which were certainly acceptable, but I'd like to see what I'm buying before
I put down my money, if only to better decide which is the product I really
want.  (There is also a "pig-in-a-poke" factor...)

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Date: 30 Jan 94 15:43:02 EST
From: "Charlene M. Greene" <72163.2524 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: cancellation of subscription

Please cancel subscription to Homebrew digest asap.  Thanks

Sincerely, Char Greene



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Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 16:25:44 -0500 (EST)
From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/ at mr.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: archives without ftp

I do have been having trouble retrieving archimes from sierra.
stanford.edu.  I was able to get the index and help but have sent 4 
different requests, and have recieved nothing in over 3 days.
CAn anyone tell me if my syntax is correct:
get homebrew yeast.faq  
or
get homebrew/pub/homebrew yeast.faq
or
get homebrew/pub/homebrew/yeast.faq

Are any of these correct or can someone give me an exact example?
Thnks,
Andrew Kligerman



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Date: Sun, 30 Jan 1994 17:22:34 -0500
From: esonn1 at cc.swarthmore.edu
Subject: bottles, praises

nr706 at aol.com wrote about Joseph Huber Brewing as a good beer to buy for
the bottles.  I've been impressed with a semi-local product called
Esslinger.  I'm in the Philadelphia area and I buy a case of 16 oz
Esslingers for about $8.  The beer is quite light in color, but tastes much
better than AB, Miller or Coors (not saying much) and is much more than
drinkable.  I guess any local brewery which bottles in "bar" bottles
(heavy-duty glass which the brewery actually re-uses) would be great for
this.  The only problem I've found is that the bottles are quite scratched.
 I really don't care, but you might not want to send such a scratched
bottle to a competition.

Eugene   esonn1 at cc.swarthmore.edu


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1338, 01/31/94