FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  WyeastChar/HopRemoval/Aeration/CrystalizedMalt/finings/dryhopping (korz)
  Re: Queen of Beer competition ("Mark B. Alston")
  Laboratory Equipment Suppliers ("Laeuger, Mike")
  Brown malt (garyrich)
  lager pitching/yeast/used g ("Ron Hart")
  Subscription (steevd)
  Mashing unmalted grains (slkinsey)
  More on fixing thermometers ("Rick Violet")
  Yeast starters (Paul Beard)
  Hops roots (8-293-5810 or (914))" <huckfinn at vnet.IBM.COM>
  All-grain Strong Ale (COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L)
  Homebrew books (Phil Hubbard x6177)
  A Novice Gets Involved... (Collin A Ames)
  amber & brown malt (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
  pH Meters (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
  snpa recipe (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
  Standard for colour determination (Ed Hitchcock)
  Stretching Yeast (LUKASIK_D)
  RE: Laaglander DME (Earle M. Williams)
  Spent grain (Domenick Venezia)
  Wyeast "British" 1098 (Jonathan G Knight)
  oak casks for beer (M.VITA)
  Special Hops (Chuck Cox)
  Oxygen in Wort (Russell Kofoed)
  by volume (Jonathan G Knight)
  Re: Another Beer Festival in Vt. (Timothy Staiano)
  Lagering question (snystrom)
  chimay+ (Carl Howes)
  Twang (Steve Scampini)
  General greetings and yeast microtubules in mitosis (Edward H Hinchcliffe-1)
  Belgian malts (Bryan L. Gros)
  Beer Recipe Formulator (BRF) on Sierra archives (Derrick Pohl)
  Re: Homebrew DigeGott Coolers/Better Beer ("Robert H. Reed")
  Will fusel alcohol flavor mellow with time? (sean v. taylor)
  bottling from kegs, grav measurements from carboys ("McCaw, Mike")


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 15:15 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: WyeastChar/HopRemoval/Aeration/CrystalizedMalt/finings/dryhopping

Jim writes:
>Wyeasts, so I am going back a bit.  Doesnt London give a slight "woody" 
>character to the beers?  I really like this in a bitter.  Certainly London

That's what Wyeast Labs says and I've confirmed it in my beers.  Wyeast
London Ale and Wyeast American Ale are my two favorites, but now with the
new Special London Ale yeast and the Belgian White yeast, I may have to
brew twice as often!  BTW, I recently made a pretty respectable Ordinary
Bitter with Wyeast Irish (for the extra diacetyl) and am serving it as
close to cask-conditioned as I can.  I give the keg just enough CO2 to
dispense the beer when I hold the faucet near the bottom of the keg and
barely open the faucet to create turbulence (like a "sparkler").  Between
servings, there's no CO2 pressure on the beer.  I've still got some
fine-tuning to do on the recipe, but I've proven to myself that I can
make a flavorful, drinkable beer with an OG of 1036.

******************
Carl writes:
>The two major categories of response to my hop removal query were pour
>through a kitchen strainer and siphon using a stainless or copper scrubbing
>pad on the kettle end of the hose.  I have not yet tried the latter but had

Unless you cool before pouring through the kitchen strainer, you will have
some Hot-Side Aeration.  I simply use a hop bag for each hop addition and
then remove the hops, bag and all, from the kettle after the boil.  I add
10% to Rager's numbers to compensate for the lower utilization I get from
the bag.

Carl also writes:
>Mash pale malt and flaked barley at 156-160F for 1.5 hours.  Steep crystal
>and roasted barley for 45 minutes after raising to 160F.  Sparge.  Raise
>to 180F and add extract.  Raise to boiling and add hops.  Boil for 90
>minutes to drive off hop aromatics.  Strain into carboy and top off with
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well, that might indeed happen, but it certainly is not *why* you boil.
The most important reasons for boiling are sanitation and protein coagulation.
If one could find a way to retain the hop aromatics during the boil (while
still losing the DMS and other unwanteds), I think they would be held in
very high esteem by this digest's members.

*******************
Richard writes:
>What's wrong with shaking the wort with the yeast?

I don't think there's anything wrong with it.  What I do is pour the
yeast starter into the carboy and then pour cooled wort into it through
a large funnel.  This action produces a lot of foam and aeration.

********************
Cliff writes:
>I am a novice brewer, who as recently been given 1.5kg of
>crystallized malt. Can I treat this as I would a malt extract, or

Is is a powder?  Then it's probably just malt extract.
Does it look like grain?  Then it's probably crystal malt and you should
crush it and steep it in a gallon or so of 170F water for 15-30 minutes,
then leave the husks behind and use the liquid to brew an extract batch.
You can use 1/2 to 2 lbs in a 5 gallon batch.  If the grain is very
dark, then you might want to use less.  Crystal malt adds sweetness, body,
head retention and a caramelly flavor to your beer.

>does it require an amylase step in order to break down the
>carbohydrates further ?

No.

> One other question : What are finings - and
>when does one add them to a brew?

Finings are used to clarify your beer.  When you use them depends on the
type of finings.  Kettle finings, like Irish Moss are added in the last
15 min of the boil.  They help proteins coagulate out during the boil.
The amount to use has varied from 1/4 tsp to much larger amounts over
the years.  I'm waiting for George Fix's book for the final word.
Gelatin is another kind of fining, but it is added to the fermenter and
not the kettle.  Polyclar AT is another and is used to remove tannins
from your beer in the fermenter (I believe it also helps to speed the
settling of the yeast too).  There's a good article on finings in one
of the Beer and Brewing from a few years ago by Terry Foster -- it
explains not only how to use them, but how they work.  Pretty cool stuff.

***************

Daniel writes:
>I still consider myself a rookie (7 batches) and would like to improve
>the quality of my brew.  I have been following the thread of dry
>hopping.  My next batch is going to be a czech pilsner.  Is it
>appropriate to dry hop this style?  If so, with what.  I reviewed the

Yes.  There is no doubt that Czech Pilsner is dryhopped and it is
traditionally only dryhopped with Czech Saaz.  I recomend whole or
plugs (cause they float).

>hop faq but it doesn't really address what styles of beers are dry
>hopped and which are not.  If it does, I missed it.  Where can I get
>info. on which styles are dry hopped?

Usually dryhopped:
Czech Pilsner, English Pale Ale, Barleywine, American Brown Ale, American
Pale Ale, India Pale Ale.

Sometimes dryhopped:
Bitter, Scottish Ale, Stouts, Strong English and Scotch Ales, 
several Belgian Ales (like Orval), Porter.

Usually not dryhopped:
Wheat beers, Mild, English Brown Ale, American Lagers (except some
recent entries by over-litigative marketing-types), most German Lagers
(although I've tasted some commercial Dorts that had a hop nose).

I'm not sure:
Alt & Koelsch (I defer comment to Roger).

My advise: don't get too hung up on styles.  Try dryhopping.  If you like
it, dryhop.  If you want to make a dryhopped Mild, then don't let anyone
stop you.

Al.

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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 15:25:49 MST
From: "Mark B. Alston" <c-amb at math.utah.edu>
Subject: Re: Queen of Beer competition

Does this strike anyone else as quite sexist and self defeating.  What
is it in brewing that makes men better or worse at it?  In this era of
eliminating the differences between the sexes this seems to be several
steps backwards.  In fact there would be quite an outcry if there we a
male only competition.  Or can you even imagine a "white" only
competition!?!  Only when all of this needless segregation is
eliminated can we truly eliminate sexism; or at least this is my
belief at the moment.  We should strive to get women brewing with
everyone.  There seems to be no need for a seperate competition.  In
fact winning such a competition seems to be a hollow victory.  What
good is it to win "Brewer of the year" when you are competing against
< half of the competition.  I can seen the merits of trying to get
more women active; and perhaps this is a way to support female
brewers, but there must be a better way.  Perhaps I am missing
something here.  Let me know, I am always open to enlightenment.

Perhaps overreacting,
Mark Alston
flames to e-mail (c-amb at math.utah.edu)
If I get a particularly good roasting I can post the juicy bits :)



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Date: 1 Feb 1994 16:30:30 U
From: "Laeuger, Mike" <mike.laeuger at spmail.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Laboratory Equipment Suppliers

Someone recently asked about a mail order company for cheap lab equipment.  I
have had good luck with a company from Skokie Illinois called American Science
and Surplus.  They have test tubes, thermometers, ... as well as an assortment
of tinkering junk.  Their phone number is (708) 982-0870 and a free fax line at
(800) 934-0722.

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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 15:11:54 PST
From: garyrich at angel.qdeck.com
Subject: Brown malt

>From: darrylri at microsoft.com
>Subject: re: Brown Malt
>
>Hugh Baird, the Scottish Maltster, makes a product called brown
>malt.  It's a relatively pale looking malt, high dried and
>slightly roasted, with about 70L color.  I don't have a data
>sheet on it, however, so I can't tell you if it has any enzymatic
>power or not.  

Well, you got my curiosity up, so I got a data sheet on it.  It's pretty 
sketchy, unlike some of the others I've seen out of GW malting.  There is 
no measure of diastatic power listed, which I take to imply that it has none.
This means it's not a "porter malt". I've seen it in stores listed as either
british chocolate or scottish chocolate.  All GW really has to say is the 
descriptor "Brown(Amber) Normally, kilned dry malt is roasted at temprature 
of about 140 degrees C.  The result is a dry, almost bitter-like flavor. Color
55-70 ASBC" And the data sheet just lists 
Moisture% 4.0
Color, laboratory Wort, ASBC 70

No extract #s, no diastatic power #s.

I've been using it for a while as a replacement for domestic chocolate.  With
the color of GW's regular chocolate at 500ASBC and brown at 70ASBC, I now know
why the color is not as deep as expected.  The Imperial Stout I made last
weekend (seems an appropriate post-earthquake brew) is much closer to dark brown
that black.  It was listed as 400l when I ordered it.


Gary Rich | Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA
garyrich at qdeck.com
Doth it not show vilely in me to desire small beer? 

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Date: 1 Feb 1994 19:52:26 U
From: "Ron Hart" <hart at axon.rutgers.edu>
Subject: lager pitching/yeast/used g

Subject:                                                      Time:7:39 PM
lager pitching/yeast/used grain                               Date:2/1/94
Recent entries have mentioned pitching rates for lagers.  What's
"a lot?"  I normally pitch 0.5-1 lit of active culture for ales and this
is fine.  Do I need more for lagers?  Does it help to prepare pitching
cultures aerobically instead of anaerobically?

Also, regarding yeast storage, I also swear by plates, but only because
I'm religously trained to begin all cultures from single colonies.  Maybe
there's a chance of picking a wild yeast, but it should be a small chance
if your sterile technique is any good.

For longer term storage (6 mo or more) I've been using stab cultures
because I can seal the caps after the yeast grows a day (keeping
O2 out), the agar can't dry out like plates, and I always thought that
cultures were more stable under anaeroblic conditions.  Is this true
for yeast?

Finally, I toss the spent grain in my compost pile.  What better use 
than to feed the hops vines?

Ron Hart
Rutgers University
Newark NJ (Former brewing capitol of the east coast)



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Date: Tue, 01 Feb 94 22:44:26 EST
From: steevd at aol.com
Subject: Subscription

Please add me to your mail list.  

Thanks for the opportunity to be a part of this fine service!

Steve Daniel, League City, Texas

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Date: Tue, 01 Feb 94 23:49:13 EST
From: slkinsey at aol.com
Subject: Mashing unmalted grains

I am gathering information in preparation to brewing a Belgian Wit style
beer.  The grist will be approximately 45% raw, unmalted wheat.  My question
is how to go about mashing this stuff.  Although regular infusion mashing
would work to some extent, (wheat gelatinizes between 125 and 147 degrees)
this method seems to produce uniformly low OGs due to the very low diastatic
power of the grist.  In Pierre Rajotte's 
"Belgian Ale" book, he says that white beers were traditionally infusion
mashed.  However, the infusion procedure he describes is very complex and
requires (among other things)  many infusions over a long period of time, 2
boilers, a holding tank, and some strange device called a stuykmanden. 
Needless to say, this method is not useful for homebrewing - in fact I don't
think even Hoegarden uses this method anymore.  I have also heard of adding
extra enzymes to an infusion mash, but would like to avoid this also. 
Anyway, I was considering treating the grist as though it were simply VERY
poorly modified malt (which is pretty close to the truth, when you consider
the grist holistically) and using a triple decoction mash.
Is there any reason why I shouldn't do this?  Will it make the mash more or
less viscose than an infusion mash?  Will it darken the wort too much? 
Presupposing a decoction mash, will it matter if I use flaked/torrefied wheat
or "plain" unmalted?
I would be very interested in hearing about methods and experiences with
mashing considerable portions of unmalted grains.

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Date: 1 Feb 1994 12:42:29 -0800
From: "Rick Violet" <rick_violet at powertalk.apple.com>
Subject: More on fixing thermometers

	I used to fix thermometers at the chemistry stock room of my college. I used
a beaker of sand placed on a hot plate as a hot bath for the bulb of the
thermometer. Its easier to apply the heat in a steady fashion. Using the
flame, I usually ended up bursting the thermometer by getting it too hot.
With the sand, it was much easier to get the column to rise at a steady pace.

Hope this helps,

Rick Violet
rubicon at apple.com



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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 07:43:14 -0500
From: paul.beard at gatekeeper.mis.tridom.com (Paul Beard)
Subject: Yeast starters

I have tried to scavenge and start some yeast from a batch I made a few
weeks back. I followed Papazian's procedure, though with only a couple of
bottles.

I did think the media was a bit thin, and I am wondering is that's why I'm
not seeing very much activity. The two bottles are sitting on my kitchen
counter at about 65=B0F with airlocks, and I have seen infrequent bubbles
from one and even less from the other.

Should I retry and thicken my soup? Any recipes for starter media anyone
can share?

I would really like to be able to cultivate some of these if I can, on the
off chance I get something unusual bottle-conditioned product I can work
toward emulating.

Thanks for your help.

- --
Paul Beard
AT&T Tridom, 840 Franklin Court, Marietta, GA 30067
404 514-3798 * FAX: 404 429-5419 * tridom!paul.beard/beardp at tridom.com



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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 07:46:21 EST
From: "Paul Austin (8-293-5810 or (914))" <huckfinn at vnet.IBM.COM>
Subject: Hops roots

Where can I get Cascade hops roots for growing? I live in the
Northeast, between Albany and NYC, and I'd like to know about
any mail-order houses or stores in the area that sell these.

Paul Austin

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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 1994 08:25:17 -0500 (EST)
From: COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L at Lilly.com
Subject: All-grain Strong Ale

I recently brewed a very tasty strong ale. Thought I
 would share the recipe. Enjoy!  Sandy C.

                      BK Boiler
                  ****************

All-grain Strong Ale (4.25 gal)

9 lb. 2-row pale malt                     Mashed 90 min  at  150F in
8 oz. Belgian pale malt                   Igloo 5 gal water jug.
1 lb. Vienna malt                         Sparged with 170F water.
8 oz. Dextrin malt
6 oz. wheat flakes
8 oz. toasted pale malt (10 min  at  350F)
6 oz.  Belgian  Special B
2 oz.  Chocolate malt
8 oz. light crystal (10 Lv)
8 oz. medium crystal(60 Lv)
4 oz. m-otter crystal(?? Lv)
2 tsp gypsum (in mash water)
_______________________________________
1 oz. Perle (7.5% alpha) for 60 min
 .75 oz. Perle (7.5% alpha) for 30 min
 .5 oz. Tettnang (4.2% alpha) for 15 min
 .5 oz. Cascade (5.1% alpha) for 0 min
_______________________________________
1 tsp  Irish Moss (last 10 min)
12 oz. clover honey (last 10 min)
 .25 cup Barbados molasses (end of boil)

Chill, siphon into a 5 gal carboy and pitch American Ale yeast (1056)

11/7/93  O.G. 1.077
 1/6/94  F.G. 1.015  kegged and force carbonated


From: COCKERHAM SANDRA L            (MCVAX0::RX31852)

To:   VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE            (IN::"homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com")

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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 09:21:45 EST
From: phubbard at baosc.com (Phil Hubbard x6177)
Subject: Homebrew books

Hi all,

I'm rather new to the world of homebrewing (my second batch is in the fermenter
right now).  I already have Charlie Papazian's "The Joy of Home Brewing", but 
would appreciate any additional references.  What other books have you found 
to be particularly useful? 

Please send replies to phubbard at baosc.com; I'll summarize and post later.

Thanks,

Phil Hubbard

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Date: 02 Feb 94 09:01:33 CST
From: Collin A Ames <C-AMES at vm1.spcs.umn.edu>
Subject: A Novice Gets Involved...

Hey there, as we say up here in the great frozen land of Minnesota!

Well, first off let me say that I have only brewed three batches of beer
in my short career, all of them extract kits.  I think it likely that I shall
stay with this type of brewing, since my brewing philosphy has been to brew
a great tasting beer for less money than it would take to buy a good beer.
Having followed many of the discussions here on all-grain brewing and yeast
culturing, etc...well, let's just say that the 'art' of brewing has not, as
yet, hit me.  Is there a muse of brewing?  I suspect so, though the name
eludes me...

That having been said, I'd like to solicit a bit of advice.  My last beer
was a bock kit (Johann's Bock by America Brews).  The kit came with 4 lbs
of dark extract, 2 lbs of amber extract (dry) and an ounce of hops, to which
I added 1 lb of dark extract (dry).  The resulting brew was a fine, dark
color, very smooth and of strong alcholic punch.  I believe I started with
an OG of 1.064 and finished at 1.018.  Now, I would like to play with it just
a bit more...1)  I would like more of a hoppy flavor to this beer.  If anyone
has brewed bocks before and would like to recommend an appropriate hop, I'd
appreciate it.  Also, what quantities should I use?  One ounce seemed to be
a bit light, as 1/2 ounce went into the boil and the other half was used as
the finishing touch.  2)  I am considering adding another pound of dark extract
(dry) to up the alcoholic content just a bit more.  But, I presume that the
yeast included in the kit (a standard dry yeast) would not be up to the
challenge?  Or, am I incorrect in this?  Suggestions?

I also brewed a red ale recently, which used 1/2 pound of grain (crystal and
chocolate, I believe).  The instructions with the kit said to bring 3 gallons
of water to a boil, turn off heat and steep the grains for 15 minutes.  That
seems like it is a little hot, considering what I've been reading here.  I
think I'd like to use grains in combination with the extracts for flavoring
and such, but is this the correct method or is there a better one?  Yes, you
guessed it...the likelihood of there ever being a tun in my house is very, very
low...right up there with the Vikings winning the Superbowl before I die.

One last question:  is there significant difference between pots for boiling?
I.e., should I avoid aluminum?  Is stainless steel ok?  I'm getting at least
a 20 qt pot, but want to make sure that, in my ignorance, I don't buy a pot
that would make my brewing life miserable!

And, just to verify that, in fact, the wort will boil over when you stop
watching it...it happened to me...boiled fine for 30 minutes while I watched
it with an eagle eye...turned to rince something in the sink, and BOOM!
Boiled over instantly...of course, if you watch the pot, it never boils...

Thanks in anticipation!

Collin Ames
c-ames at vm1.spcs.umn.edu

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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 09:15:40 -0600 (CST)
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
Subject: amber & brown malt


Here are suggestions for amber and brown malt.

For amber malt, try DeWolf Cosyns Biscuit malt.  Its color is 
about 22L, which makes it darker than Munich Light or 
Munich Dark, but not so dark as DWC Aromatic.  In flavor, 
Biscuit is very different from the Munich and Aromatic, as 
the name attests.  See Noonan's Scotch Ale book for some 
recipes calling for some amber malt.

For brown malt, I have done something similar to what Ed 
Westemeier suggested.  Maltophile Randy Mosher suggests 
that you can make brown malt in your oven by toasting pale 
malt for 40 to 50 minutes at 400 to 450 degrees.  Yes, the 
time seems long and the temperature hot, but you will get 
brown malt.  When you crack it in your malt mill, it shreds 
easily.  I have used brown malt for 20 - 25% of the grain bill.

Brown malt can be used in an attempt at a "historic" porter.  
Use the following grain mix:

9 parts pale malt
5 parts amber malt (DWC biscuit)
5 parts brown malt (homemade)
1 part black malt

Aim for SG 1.070.  Hop it well, say 50 IBUs.  Use Guinness 
yeast or Wyeast Irish, or whatever yeast you want.

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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 09:18:10 -0600
From: trl at photos.wustl.edu (Tom Leith MIR/ERL 362-6965)
Subject: pH Meters

Dion Hollenbeck writes

>...I have been investigating pH meters thoroughly.  All 
>the reasonably priced meters are not temperature 
>corrected.  You need to calibrate them at the temperature 
>you will be taking the measurement.

I got one at Worm's Way here in St. Louis for $65, with 
some pH7 buffer for calibration and storage.  It is 
temperature corrected from about 35F to 120F.  All the 
meters I've seen for under $50 are not temperature 
corrected.

On a related topic:  I bought the pH meter partially with 
gift certificates that Worm's Way gave to our club as 
prizes for our competition in December.  I've wanted one 
for a long time for aquarium and gardening, and now for 
beermaking.  It really *is* an extravagance, though. My 
wife characterizes my extravagances as "toys" -- she's not 
far off the mark.  If your funds are limited, and you don't 
have special needs (like measuring especially low or high 
pH) you might use Merk ColorpHast pH indicator strips, in 
the pH 7 - 4 range. Its plenty accurate for beermaking, 
aquarium-keeping, etc.  Other ranges are available. Any 
good homebrew shop should carry them, at least in the low 
range.  If yours doesn't, ask for them.  If the shopkeeper 
is, um, uncooperative, they can be mail-ordered from my 
favorite shop here in St. Louis.  Standard disclaimers 
apply, e-mail me directly for the address if you want it.

	t    


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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 09:22:09 -0600 (CST)
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
Subject: snpa recipe

Here was the last recipe.  Tasted at racking, it comes pretty close.

7.5 pounds US 2-row
1 pound US cara-pils
1 pound DWC Cara-Vienne
3 ounces DWC Special B

0.5 ounce Perle at 60 minutes before end of boil
1 ounce Cascade at 30 minutes before end of boil
1 ounce Cascade at 10 minutes before end of boil 
1 ounce Cascade at 2 minutes before end of boil

Wyeast American ale

Note the final hop addition at 2 minutes.  At flame off, cover the
beer and steep for 20 minutes before chilling.

For all-grain, aim for starch conversion temp of 153/5 degrees F.  
Grain bill is figured at 78% extract efficiency; adjust accordingly.

For extract brewers, substitute about 5 pounds of light unhopped dry
malt extract for the US 2-row.  Crack and steep the other grains, 
then strain them out, bring to boil, add extract, and proceed.

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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 1994 11:13:56 -0400
From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca>
Subject: Standard for colour determination

	If the darker roasted malts (ie chocolate malt, black malt and 
roast barley, as well as the darker crystal malts) have a colour rating in 
degrees lovibond based on a linear dilution, does anyone know what the 
standard is?  Are these malts diluted to 10^L?  5^L?  15^L?  Each to a 
different reference?  Are they all diluted to 2% and the colour rating 
based on that?  Who decides that Black malt is 500^L and chocolate malt is 
350^L?  This is important stuff.  Just think, if Guinness has a colour of 
35^L, does a rating of 350^L mean anything at all?

____________   
Ed Hitchcock	ech at ac.dal.ca	| Oxymoron:  Draft beer in bottles. |
Anatomy & Neurobiology		| Pleonasm:  Draft beer on tap.     |
Dalhousie University, Halifax	|___________________________________|


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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 1994 10:32:04 -0500 (EST)
From: LUKASIK_D at sunybroome.edu
Subject: Stretching Yeast

I have been trying to get some extra use out of my liquid yeasts and have
come up with a few questions that I hope someone out in homebrew land may 
have the answers to.

My HB shop owner suggested making up four 16 oz bottles of approx. .020
starter and then spliting up the contents of a Wyeast pack and pouring it 
into the 4 bottles.  He then suggested capping them and placing them in the
fridge for future use.  Has anyone tried anything like this?  I am assuming
this can only be used with Ale yeast as the Lager would probably ferment and 
then make one major mess in the fridge.

I have also tried washing yeast in the manner described in the yeast faq. This
worked fine when I immediately repitched into a new primary but I haven't
tried storing for future use.  My thought is that without food the yeast won't
live for too long.  Any suggestions/ideas?  I would like to talk with someone
that uses the wash method and compare notes....

Lastly, I believe I have read or heard of an idea where a larger batch of 
week starter is made, pitched and fermented, then split into several smaller
batches to be stored for future use.  Anyone tried this?  

Any and all help would be appreciated.  If I get enough good, strange or 
otherwise answers I would be happy to post to the list for the benefit of all.

TIA

Doug.    <lukasik_d at sunybroome.edu>

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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 9:14:02 MST
From: Earle M. Williams <earlew at drc.usbm.gov>
Subject: RE: Laaglander DME



Bill writes:
>Does anyone out there have any comments on the various Laaglander dried
>extracts?

Al follows:
>Yes.  They make a tasty brew, but be warned that Laaglander Dried Malt Extracts
>are not very fermentable, meaning that they will leave a high final gravity
>and a sweet brew.  A recent poster said his beer got stuck at 1030 (sorry,
>lost the poster's name).  If he used Laaglander, then a 1060 beer really might
>finish at 1030.  It's really that unfermentable.  I use it 1 to 2 pounds in
>[snip]

Well!  You guys have a lot of nerve bringing this up *after* I used the
Laaglander extra light DME in my IPA! ;^) (I suppose this symbol means
tongue in cheek!)  Just another data point - 6 lbs of the Laaglander DME, with
an OG of 1.055.  After racking to the secondary, the SG was 1.030.  I just
assumed it was stuck and have been waiting *oh so patiently* for the
gravity to get lower.  I guess I'll just have to bottle...

Trying not to worry and running out of homebrew,
Earle

- --------
Earle M. Williams
U.S. Bureau of Mines
Denver, Colorado  USA
(Internet) earlew at drc.usbm.gov

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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 09:35:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at ZGI.COM>
Subject: Spent grain

A member of our brewing club here in Seattle has just started a bakery
with his son named "The Spent Grain Bakery".  Located in the Fremont
district they produce great peasant style (heavily crusted) breads in
which they use the spent grain from numerous local microbreweries
(Redhook, Hales, Big Time, Maritime, ...).  Of course the spent grain is
not the primary grain but simply an adjunct to the recipes.  The
microbreweries are suppling the bakery with bottle labels for them to
package with the bread so you know what brewery's grain went into the
bread you are consuming.  Pretty cool, huh?

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com





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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 1994 11:58:57 -0500 (cdt)
From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: Wyeast "British" 1098


Regarding the recent thread on "London," "British," whether the names are 
geographically accurate, and which is good for what style:  my $0.02 is to 
say that while I have very limited experience with "London," I have 
thoroughly enjoyed the results of 1098 in Pale Ales, Porters, and Brown Ale.  
It imparts a tart note which I have grown very fond of, and usually performs 
well.  Two disclaimers: a bitter I made didn't turn out very well, but I 
DON'T think it was the fault of the 1098; and I posted questions a couple 
months ago about high terminal gravities, which I originally thought might be 
yeast-related, but I no longer believe this.  I recommend the "British" very 
highly.

Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa						Just Brew It.

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Date: 02 Feb 94 13:00:16 EST
From: M.VITA at sysb.ftc.gov
Subject: oak casks for beer

Recently, Steve Tollesfrud (steve_t at fleurie.compass.fr) wrote the
following response to an inquiry about the use of oak barrels in
brewing:


>WHY?!

>Storing wine in oak casks is good. Storing beer in oak casks
>would be bad. The reason Bordeaux wine producers store wine in
>oak barrels for a couple of years is to contribute TANNINS to
>the wine which make the wine age better. In beermaking, we do
>everything we can to avoid extracting bitter tannins from the
>grain husks, so why defeat the purpose by puting the beer in
>oak??

  How  do you think India Pale Ale got its traditional
"oaky" taste?  It was from the oak barrels in which the beer was
stored for shipment to India.  Even today, Yorkshire brewers such
as Sam Smith's and Theakston (makers of Old Peculier) use oak
casks. They even have their own in-house coopers to make them.
There may be other Yorkshire brewers who do this as well.


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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 11:46:35 EST
From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox)
Subject: Special Hops

Many folks have posted that they have never used special hops in beer,
but that didn't stop them from presenting misinformation.  I figure it
is time for someone who knows what the hell they are talking about to
speak up before the BS gets any deeper. 

My credentials: ask Michael Jackson about my Brain Death Barleywine. 
Nuff said. 

The facts:

Special hops contribute a nice flavor to beer, quite complimentary to
the regular hops.  The flavor is directly related to the quality of the
special hops.

You can get quite stoned off the beer, in fact it is a nice way to get a
buzz if you don't want to smoke. 

The procedure:

The secret to excellent special beer is correct processing of the
special hops. 

Break up the goodies and put them in a grain bag or cheesecloth and put
that in a colander or strainer.  Rinse with lukewarm water and allow to
soak for an hour or so.  Repeat several times until the runoff is not so
green.  You are removing the water soluble stuff that doesn't taste very
good and has no useful effect.  If the water is too hot, you will remove
the good stuff, so be careful. 

Add the (now soggy) special hops as a very late dry hopping in the
secondary to a very strong beer (barleywine is best IMHO).  You are
relying on the alcohol to extract and isomerize the goodies, so give it
about a week before straining them out and bottling/kegging.  Since the
special hops compliment the flavor of the regular hops, you want to
reduce your regular hops slightly, but don't eliminate them. 

The quality of the resulting beverage is dependent upon the quality of
the base beer and the special hops.  If you know a grower, you can use
the waste that was trimmed, but it won't taste nearly as good as using
prime buds.  Yes, it can be expensive if you purchase the goods at
retail prices.  Your best bet is to befriend a grower and work out a
barter arrangement. 

FYI: Brain Death Barleywine was a 5-gallon batch of 1100 OG barleywine
with 5 oz of prime tops.  One bottle was all you needed.  Suck one of
those babies down before a concert and you were set for the night.  They
lasted for 5 years and continued to improve.  The bottles (yes, he asked
for seconds) that MJ tried were about a year old.  No, I don't have any
more. 

As a BJCP Master Beer Judge with extensive experience with special hops,
I am available to help you evaluate and improve your efforts. 

Don't forget: your government will send armed thugs to assault and
kidnap you and steal your property if they find out that you are in
possession of unapproved herbs.  Vote Libertarian if you want to to be
able to decide what herbs you should consume. 

- -- 
Chuck Cox   <chuck at synchro.com>
SynchroSystems / Riverside Garage & Brewery - Cambridge, Mass.

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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 10:11:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Russell Kofoed <kofoedr at elwha.evergreen.edu>
Subject: Oxygen in Wort

Howdy, My house got really cold and my fermentation got really stuck.  I
had to re-yeast.  The yeast, and correct temp, alone did not jump start
it.  Finally I resorted to swishing the whole thing around in the carboy
to add Oxygen.  This did instick the fermentation!!  What I was wondering
was...why does Papazian say NEVER to add oxygen to the fermenter.  Is this
debacle going to screw up the taste?  Add strange wild yeasties?  So if
anyone knows what adding oxygen to the fermenter late in the process does,
let me know!  Thanks in advance.

Russell Kofoed
kofoedr at elwha.evergreen.edu



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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 1994 12:11:09 -0500 (cdt)
From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: by volume


On another subject, amen to measuring priming sugar by weight instead of 
volume.  It has always puzzled me that we are supposed to weigh everything 
else, but measure the priming sugar!  I have found that 4 oz gives "nice" 
carbonation, 5 oz. "plenty" of carbonation (I use corn sugar).

Jonathan

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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 13:10:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Timothy Staiano <tstaiano at ultrix.ramapo.edu>
Subject: Re: Another Beer Festival in Vt.

Thanks for the reply regarding NE/Mid-Atlantic festivals.  Here's another 
one worth mentioning.  Also in September, Burlington's Waterfront Park is 
home to the Vermont Brewer's Festival.  My fiancee and I attended this 
past September's and were pleased to see the large amount of diversity of 
small brewers from the Vt., Mass., N.H., Maine area.  Among those in 
attendance were Geary's, Harpoon, Mountain Brewers, Catamount, Otter 
Creek Brewing, St. Ambroise (Canadian! Great Oatmeal Stout).  Pete's Brewing 
Co. was there, as was ol' Pete himself.  Not surprisingly, the Boston Brewing
Co.'s stand was not all that crowded.  Among the local breweries were
McNeil's Brewpub of Brattleboro, Vt. (with the most -12!- beer styles), 
The Vermont Pub & Brewery (makes a great Dog Bite Bitter), and Vermont's 
newest brewpub Jasper Murdock's Ale House (unfortunately, their location 
escapes me).

As for The Mountain Brewers looking for a new location, the guy that I 
spoke to when I was last there (early Jan) didn't mention anything.  If 
anyone has spoken to them or has any concrete information, please let me 
know.

Have a Hoppy!


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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 94 13:26:18 EST
From: snystrom at aol.com
Subject: Lagering question

Last month I made my first attempt at lagering, but have a concern.
I used the Jeepers Creepers Light Lager recipe from Papazian's book and made
a starter with the Wyeast Dutch lager yeast. After a solid primary
fermentation at 48 degrees, I racked to secondary and brought the temp down
slowly to 39 degrees. Since I racked to the secondary, however, there has
been no airlock activity. When I racked to secondary, the gravety was 1.006
(at the high end of the final gravety range for the recipe.)
The questions: 
1.
xx Should there be airlock activity during secondary for this or any lagered
beer?
2. Don't you remove most of the yeast when you rack to secondary if you are
using a bottom-fermenting yeast?

Also, could someone suggest a good book with information on lagering. I
enjoyed papazians book, but he says little if anything about lagering.

Thanks in advance
Scott

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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 12:25:37 EST
From: sdlsb.dnet!73410%sdlcc at swlvx2.msd.ray.com (Carl Howes)
Subject: chimay+

I am thinking of brewing a trappist style ale but have never had one.  So
I am seeking a store(s?) in southern NH or eastern MA where Chimay and other
uncommon imports may be obtained.  Private e-mail ONLY please to save
bandwidth.  TIA.

Carl Howes  73410 at sdlcc.msd.ray.com


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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 13:27:40 EST
From: Steve Scampini <scampini at hp-and.an.hp.com>
Subject: Twang

Taste question:

A friend just reviewed my first batch of beer (which carbonated just
fine, just as many of you thought it would given enough time) - a
steam beer like extract kit.  He (and I) like it and that's probably 
all that should matter...BUT he said it had "your typical extract beer
TWANG".  No amount of prodding could pry any further description of 
what the heck TWANG was... no, not buttery, no not too sweet, no not
infected, no not... you know EXTRACT TWANG.  Are there any of you out
there that are more palattely expressive, to mangle the language a bit?
Can a TWANG-less beer be doctored to TWANG?  What ever it is, can it be
avoided short of doing the that grain thing?  

Steve Scampini  "If the moon is full, what did he eat?" Sarah, age four.

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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 12:01:47 -0600 (CST)
From: Edward H Hinchcliffe-1 <hinch001 at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: General greetings and yeast microtubules in mitosis

Hello to the World's Homebrewers,
     My name is Ted, and I have become a homebrewer; I am also a science geek
who works on microtubules. These are cellular structures too difficult to
explain here (if interested, read anything by Tim Mitchison or take a
class at the local polytech). I am posting this to say hello and tell you
all that I look forward to my life as a homebrewer (life as a dog?).

     Why pitch at a lower temperature when brewing Hefe Weissen? Maybe the
German brewmiesters liked a nice syncronous(sp) culture of yeast. Cold
will do this by depolymerizing microtubules in the yeast's mitotic spindle
and blocking the cell cycle (read work by Tim Hunt) in the G2-M phase
transition. When the yeast warms up, the microtubules can repolymerize and
the cells can progress on their way to making you Bavaria's truth serum
(when I drink Weiss I always want to tell stories about when I was 10
years old, ah joy). Understanding the cell cycle will aid you in
understanding not only your yeast, but yourself.

     More learned articles latter (aren't you lucky)

Edward H. Hinchcliffe (no letters after my name, but I am fairly rich)
hinch001 at maroon.tc.umn.edu

 






















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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 11:18:19 PST
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: Belgian malts

A local shop now has four belgian malts:  Caravienna, Caramunich, biscuit
malt, and special B.

Can anyone post their experiences with these malts?  How about guides 
to using them in an abbey or trapist recipe.  What other styles might
they be good for?
Thanks.
                                           - Bryan

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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 11:54:23 -0800
From: pohl at unixg.ubc.ca (Derrick Pohl)
Subject: Beer Recipe Formulator (BRF) on Sierra archives

I downloaded this recently, and it expanded OK into Chris Campanelli's Beer
Recipe Formulator (BRF), but when I tried to run it on my PC XT-clone, it
wouldn't run.  I got a message saying illegal instruction or some such
thing.  Anyone else had trouble with this program?  I am running DOS 3.3,
so maybe it needs a newer version of DOS?  I'd like to try it out, so any
advice is appreciated.

I also couldn't get Domenick Venezia's extractf to run either.  However, my
compliments to Michael C. Taylor for his SUDS 2.2 for DOS.  It works fine,
even on my antiquated set-up (I do have a mouse at least).  And my thanks
to the administrator(s) of the Sierra archives.  What a treasure trove of
information.  Now if only some enterprising Mac programmers would whip up
some Mac brewing software and post it there.  A Mac version of the "thread"
program, for instance, which searches back issues of HBD for articles
containing certain keywords, would be a great boon.


- -----
Derrick Pohl <pohl at unixg.ubc.ca>, Faculty of Graduate Studies
University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C.



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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 1994 14:57:28 -0500 (EST)
From: "Robert H. Reed" <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Re: Homebrew DigeGott Coolers/Better Beer

Rick inquired about Gott coolers and I thought it appropriate
to comment about switching to grain brewing:

My first mash tun was based on a 5 gal Igloo cooler, a drilled,
trimmed mixing bowl(false bottom) and it became *extremely* 
distorted after about 40 mashes.  I have since graduated to 
a 5 gal Gott - same false bottom design - and there is no
sign of deformation after about 50 mashes.  Unless Igloo has
changed the plastic formulation in their cooler, I reccommend
the Gott.  I attached a plastic bottling spigot in place of the
factory valve(I used a rubber washer on inside and out).

About better beer:

I feel the most important factor in making quality homebrew
is getting the yeast right.  I made the transition to liquid
yeast and grain brewing at the same time and the difference
knocked my socks off.  I have since made some very good beers
from *light* dry or liquid (Edme DMS is very good) extracts
and high quality specialty grains, quality hops and liquid
yeast.  These beers are indistinguishable from well made
all-grain beers.

I feel what is gained by grain brewing is the ultimate 
flexibility in recipe design, and control of practically every 
aspect in brewing - short of malting your own grain.  If I
had the choice over again, I'd make the same move to grain 
brewing: the time commitment is substantial, but IMHO the 
rewards are worthwhile.

There are viable dry yeasts on the market, but IMHO, liquid
yeasts are far superior and the recent number of strains
available allows you even greater control of your beer.

Rob Reed

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Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 20:07:47 EST
From: sean v. taylor <sean at chemres.tn.cornell.edu>
Subject: Will fusel alcohol flavor mellow with time?


	I just brewed a partial mash wit, hopping very lightly (1.5 oz. 
Saaz).  After brewing, I had trouble with cooling (it took well over
an hour to get it down to pitching temp for the Wyeast Wit yeast). I 
fermented in primary about a week, and racked into secondary for another
three weeks.  I bottled and let it age two weeks.
	I cracked open a bottle this week and it had an undesirable back 
of the throat bitterness which I believe is fusel alcohol flavor.
	Will this flavor mellow out or disappear with time?  It is now aging
at about 40 F.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Sean V. Taylor
Dept. of Chemistry
Cornell U.
sean at chemres.tn.cornell.edu


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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 94 12:27:00 PST
From: "McCaw, Mike" < at wdni.com: at hpfcla.fc.hp.com>
Subject: bottling from kegs, grav measurements from carboys


Norm Pyle suggests a method of bottling from kegs - for a few at a time.  I 
have used the same method, using a Phil's filler (standard disclaimer)  on 
the end of my cobra tap, and it works well for low-carbonation beers, but I 
have never been able to get it to work with alts and hefe-weizens (~3 
volumes CO2).  They still foam like the dickens.  The one thing I haven't 
done to try them is to chill the keg to just above freezing, which might 
help, but defeats the purpose of a quick and simple bottling method.  If 
anyone has success with high carbonation beers at 45 deg F, I'm all ears!
Alexander Ramos asks how to check the gravity in the carboy.  For two years, 
I've been filling the crack around the stopper with 100 proof vodka, letting 
that sit for a few minutes, then simply removing the stopper and tilting the 
carboy to fill a graduate cylinder and replacing the stopper/airlock.  Have 
n ever had an infection yet, and I know that my brewcave is far from squeaky 
clean.  I recently bought a glass wine thief to take samples with, but its 
far more work to sanitize it and grab a sample than to simply disinfect the 
stopper and pour.  Guess this is a perfect example of appropriate 
technology.
Mike McCaw     McCaw at WDNI.com

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1341, 02/03/94