HOMEBREW Digest #1342 Fri 04 February 1994
Digest #1341
Digest #1343
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Cannibis and Hops (GNT_TOX_)
german malt (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
Inexpensive pH meter (Paul Ferrara)
recipes (Shirley)
New Mexico Brewing FAQ (Michael L. Hall)
Re: Baron DeKalb/Red Tail Yeast (Jack Skeels)
Sugar and Cooper's Extract (Mark Caldwell Bellman)
Cat's Meow (Greg Bishop)
re- grav measurements from (George Tempel)
RE: Laaglander DME (Rick Magnan)
Reasons for Boiling (npyle)
Malt color ratings ("Manning Martin MP")
maple syrup, old hops ("PETE ZINGELMAN,")
Altbier recipe advice (Robert Jordan)
hop bread ("Jennifer Crum")
Wort and Oxygen ("Palmer.John")
Yeast Preservation (rprice)
belgian malt ideas (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
Re: Mashing Wits (Jim Busch)
Hops roots ("Peter Miller {84663}")
Organic Malting Barley (2nd Attempt) (Al Marshall)
Oak Casks. Discussion of Worth! (COYOTE)
pH meter for < $60 (Gary S. Kuyat)
ales to lagers (Bryan L. Gros)
complete joy (RONALD DWELLE)
Re: All-Grain Strong Ale (COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L)
Dry-Hopping Advice (Jeff Frane)
RE:brewing in oak casks NOT! ("J. Hunter Heinlen")
The Spent Grain Baking Company (Domenick Venezia)
stuck firmentation (Zach Fresco)
cancel article 02031015.17655 (Gary S. Kuyat)
Temp Correcting pH meter for < $60 (Gary S. Kuyat)
(GREGORY T LALIBERTE)
Looking for Brew Schools (MAXWELLS)
Request for Alaska (Chinook) beer recipe ("Merchant, Thomas E")
Underpriming (Paul_Biron_at_AOS200)
Calorie Chart ("Edward F. Loewenstein")
Re: Cannabis (Richard Stueven)
hop removal/stout boil (Carl Howes)
Re:b bright (TODD CARLSON)
Lambic Digest on Net (yeebot)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 15:39 EST
From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject: Cannibis and Hops
In HBD#1340 Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu writes that cannibis and
hops are about as closely related as monkeys and humans.
Monkeys and chimps are 99% genetically identical. We're so damn
close, I'm surprised they're not in suits along side us. Probably run
most companies better than the bozos that do now.
Anyway, similarities can be deceiving. I'm sure hops and hemp are not
nearly as closely related, but cannibis might just do something to
beer flavor and aroma-wise. You never know until you try. That's the
beauty of homebrewing, trying anything you want.
Andrew Pastuszak
Philadelphia, PA
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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 15:38:33 EST
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com
Subject: german malt
My local HB shop has some German Vienna malt from a company
pronounced "Durst" sp? . Has any one heard of them? is the stuff any good?
how does it compare to Ireks?
Lee Menegoni lmenegoni at nectech.com
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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 1994 16:23:05
From: prf at cherry-semi.com (Paul Ferrara)
Subject: Inexpensive pH meter
Steved wrote that he was interested in the Checker pH meter advertised
in Zymurgy, and Dion replied with much good general pH meter info.
While scanning a trade journal the following ad caught my eye:
Newport Electronics 1-(800)639-7678
Pocket pH Tester w/ Replaceable Electrode
Model HHpH1
Measures 0-14pH, 0-70degC (32-158degF)
Automatic Temperature Compensation
+/-0.1pH and +/-1deg accuracy
2 point calibration for temp and pH
Price: $59.50 ($69.50 with 3 calibration buffers)
extra electrodes are $19.00 each
If you have a fax, you can get a spec sheet by calling
1-800-NEWINFO, request document # 125
Looks like a great price for a temp compensated meter.
Hope this info is useful to some of you.
Disclaimers:
I have never used or even seen this meter.
I have no ties (financial or otherwise) to Newport Electronics.
I have never even ordered anything from them.
Just relaying what I saw in an interesting ad.
Paul ( prf at cherry-semi.com )
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Date: Wed, 02 Feb 94 15:17:14 MST
From: Shirley <DUSTHOMP at idbsu.idbsu.edu>
Subject: recipes
Would someone send me a copy of the recipes from SNPA and from the
St Louis competion. I have been unsuccessful at reaching the people
who posted notes concern the recipes. Thanks
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's to it and to it again, if you don't do it, when you get to it,
you may never get to it to do it again...
-----------------------+-----------------------+-------------------------
Shirley Mae Thompson | 1910 University Drive | Cren: DUSTHOMP at IDBSU
User Service Center | Boise, Idaho 83725 | Internet:
Boise State University | (208) 385-4357 | dusthomp at idbsu.idbsu.edu
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Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 17:41:45 MST
From: mlh at cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall)
Subject: New Mexico Brewing FAQ
Greetings, Fellow Beer Drinkers and/or Brewers!
I maintain an FAQ about Beer and New Mexico, which I have sent to many
of you in the past. I have made significant updates to the FAQ, and
would like to know if you would like a copy of the updated FAQ.
For those that don't know, an FAQ is a Frequently Asked Questions list.
Basically, it contains everything that I know about beer and brewing in
New Mexico. It lists all the brewpubs, clubs, homebrew shops, etc. that
I have heard of in New Mexico. I will mail it to anyone who requests it;
just send me email and I'll get it to you in a couple of days (I'll wait
and make one mass mailing). There are two versions of it: one that has
all the recent changes marked in the margin (useful to those that have
seen an old copy and just want to know what's different), and one which
has no changes marked (easier to read and not as cluttered). Let me know
which one you would like.
Cheers, Salud, Prost, Slainte, To your health, and Down the hatch...
Mike Hall
hall at lanl.gov or
mlh at cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 13:54 EST
From: Jack Skeels <0004310587 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Re: Baron DeKalb/Red Tail Yeast
In HBD #1335, Robert Reed questions Sam Adams' patriotism regarding his
brewing a German Bock. At the risk of sticking my historically-ignorant
foot in my mouth I ask: Weren't the Germans (at that time part of greater
Prussia) friends of the American Revolution? Or at worst they were hired
guns from Europe. I would extend myself further by guessing that thinking
the Germans are hip or that they brew great beer fell out of vogue as a
result of the World Wars in THIS century (a la The Guns of Navarone, etc.) I
only bring this up because I come from a city named after one of these 18th
century guys that helped out George and his pals, Baron *something* von
DeKalb. ;-)
Also, I've enjoyed all of the knowledgeable info on yeasts and cultivation,
especially regarding SNPA (which I've made my first cultures from!!). I was
wondering, does anybody know if the chunky dregs from Red Tail Ale are
viable and/or clean like SNPA? My guess is that they are not. Also (again)
why are they so solid? Do they use a fining agent or a coagulant of some
sort??
TIA, and good brews to all,
Jack Skeels
JSKEELS at MCIMAIL.COM
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 02:39:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Mark Caldwell Bellman <mb4u+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Sugar and Cooper's Extract
Can someone please help me. I have recently purchased a can of Cooper's Real
Ale extract. The instructions say to add 2kg of white sugar to the fermenter
along with water and the extract. First question, is this table sugar or corn
sugar? Next question, why do the instructions with the can not say to boil the
wort? Every can I have tried plus every recipe I have ever seen always mention
boiling the wort for several hours. Should I be following the recipe with the
can? Why does it want me to add sugar? Isn't there enough malt in the can for
the yeast?
If possible, please email responses to mb4u at andrew.cmu.edu
Thanks,
mark
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 00:33:17 +0000
From: bishop at magic.geol.ucsb.edu (Greg Bishop)
Subject: Cat's Meow
I recently downloaded the Cat's Meow (beer recipes) from
sierra at stanford.edu. These files are in Post Script format. I've never
dealt with Post Script files and would appreciate any advice on how to
print them. I am using a Macintosh computer.
Thanks in advance,
Greg Bishop
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Date: Thu, 03 Feb 1994 08:48:49 +0000 (U)
From: George Tempel <tempel at MONMOUTH-ETDL1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: re- grav measurements from
re: grav measurements from carboys
Just to add to the discussion:
Instead of buying a wine thief I purchased for < $3.00 a _Glass_
baster. Very easy to sanitize w/b-brite. I use my plastic tube
for the hydrometer as a flask, fill it < 1/2 way with a b-brite
solution, and squeeze the baster and insert it
into the tube to displace the sanitizing solution up the plastic
cylinder walls and around the outside of the baster, then release
the baster bulb while withdrawing, allowing the solution _inside_
the glass baster. Repeat a several times and you've got a clean
baster _and_ plastic flask. I rinse and remove the glass, then
dump the solution inside the bulb, swirl some, then rinse
everything. Next, clean the carboy top and pop off the airlock
and stopper, squeeze and insert the baster, then release the
bulb and withdraw a full baster! Deposit into the plastic flask
and repeat if necessary. I find 2 1/2 basters are enough to
get a measurement.
Works well for me, and takes only a few minutes. The idea of
tipping a full carboy _just_ enough to get a measurement
scares the yeasties outta me! If I spilled just once....shudder!
l8r...
ty (george tempel, home = netromancr at aol.com)
"kiss cats: the dachshund and the deer are one"--wallace stevens
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 10:31:39 EST
From: magnan at server1.dfci.harvard.edu (Rick Magnan)
Subject: RE: Laaglander DME
In #1340, wes(WKODAMA at aba.com) responding to a question about
Laaglander DME wrote:
> I had a three batch in a row problem with stuck ferments. I was
> only getting down to around 1.020 to 1.030, where I usually end
> at around 1.009 to 1.013. The only thing all three batches had
> in common were the use of Laaglander light DME (I usually use
> Munton & Fison). This can hardly be classified as conclusive
> evidence, however; it's more of an anecdotal "data point."...
Several months ago, I asked whether 60f was too cold to ferment with
the Wyeast 1056 because a batch went rather slowly. My next 2 batches
were fermented with the same yeast (I usually grow the yeast and
split it 3 ways) at the same temps, or colder, and they fermented
quickly and vigorously. The difference? The slow batch was brewed
with DME that said "Product of Holland" but no where was any mention
of Laaglander. In the other batches Munton & Fison DME was used.
This too, is just an "anecdotal data point" - maybe I didn't provide
enough O2 for the first batch (for example). On the other hand, that
"product of Holland" DME didn't even taste sweet. Which raises the
question - what the heck is in that stuff??? Both brands of DME were
packed by Crosby and Baker, perhaps I should bother them about product
content labeling? (I bet you grain brewers love this kinda talk :)
rick
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 8:41:46 MST
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Reasons for Boiling
Al writes:
>Carl also writes:
>>Mash pale malt and flaked barley at 156-160F for 1.5 hours. Steep crystal
>>and roasted barley for 45 minutes after raising to 160F. Sparge. Raise
>>to 180F and add extract. Raise to boiling and add hops. Boil for 90
>>minutes to drive off hop aromatics. Strain into carboy and top off with
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Well, that might indeed happen, but it certainly is not *why* you boil. The
>most important reasons for boiling are sanitation and protein coagulation.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The most important reason for me is hop utilization, i.e. alpha acid
isomerization, but then I'm a hop head. I've recently joined HHA (Hop Heads
Anonymous), as I now realize I can't do this on my own. Maybe someday I'll
be able to sit down and drink a sweet dopplebock, or a Belgian trappist-style
ale without saying "Needs more hops!". Until then, its IBUs for me!
>If one could find a way to retain the hop aromatics during the boil (while
>still losing the DMS and other unwanteds), I think they would be held in
>very high esteem by this digest's members.
Oh yes! High esteem indeed! I suppose you could collect the steam, condense
it, and reintroduce it to the wort (EasyAromaSaver?), but you'd defeat one of
the main purposes for boiling all-grain - to boil down volume and concentrate
the wort. Well lets see, you could then distill the aroma out of this
captured liquid, and then... (I'm not sure this is possible in MY garage).
Norm
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Date: 3 Feb 1994 10:38:38 U
From: "Manning Martin MP" <manning#m#_martin_p at mcst.ae.ge.com>
Subject: Malt color ratings
ASBC methods of color assessment put malts and adjuncts into three classes:
black, high-dried & caramel, and pale.
Black malts (including chocolate and roasted barley) are assessed at about 1%
(actually done by weight) of the one-pound-in-one-gallon at which they are
quoted. Hence, they are measured at about 5 deg L, and adjusted up to one
pound per gallon (about 500 deg L).
Pale malts are assessed using a mash of about one pound per gallon (actually
done by weight), and are therefore measured at about 2 to 4 deg L.
The gray (amber?) area is in the high-dried and caramel malts, which are
mashed with pale malt (of known color). The mixture is assessed for color,
and the color of the pale malt is then subtracted out. The procedure allows
the wort to be diluted for convenience, at the discretion of the analyst, and
then adjusted (linearly) back to the lab wort concentration. If a wort is
darker than about 10 deg L, the development of color with concentration
begins to exhibit non-linear behavior; i.e. a lower increase in measured
color for a given increment in concentration (see Brewing Techniques, 2 (1),
(Jan.-Feb. 1994)). Therefore, if the wort color is measured beyond the linear
portion of the color development curve (above 10 deg), the color rating will
be reduced.The procedure should have been written such that the wort color is
always measured say, between 5 and 10 deg to avoid this problem (IMHO).
MPM
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Date: 03 Feb 1994 07:32:07 PST
From: "PETE ZINGELMAN," <ZINGELMA at EPRI.EPRI.COM>
Subject: maple syrup, old hops
From: PETE ZINGELMAN, Wisconsin Electric Power Co.
Subject: maple syrup, old hops
Hi all! I'm planning to try a partial mash recipe for a maple syrup
stout. Has anyone tried this before? The recipe calls for 12oz of maple
syrup, most of it in the boil,and what's left is added in the last 10
min of the boil. I remember reading somewhere (Miller?) that the
quantity should be closer to one gallon!
Also, I have some left over whole hops from a batch my buddy gave me,
(he grew his own) They have been in ziploc baggies for about 3 months,
but have not been refrigerated. How do I tell if they're still good?
Thanks in advance!!
(Insert clever quote here)
Pete Zingelman Point Beach Nuclear Plant
zingelma at eprinet.epri.com (414)755-6526 fax-6562
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 10:01:35 -0600 (CST)
From: Robert Jordan <JORDAN at ANLBEM.BIM.ANL.GOV>
Subject: Altbier recipe advice
I'm planning on starting an Altbier in the next week or so and was
looking for a little input from the experts. Here's the receipe I was
thinking of:
6 lbs. Marie's Munich extract (50% American 2-row, 30% Belgian
Munich, 20% American Munich)
1 lb. Crystal malt
Perle hops, 35-40 IBU
Yeast labs Dusseldorf Ale yeast (A06)
How does this sound? I'm shooting for an OG of 1.044 to 1.048. I'm
pretty sure this will hit that, but maybe I need to add a little more
malt? The extract is pretty dark (darker than amber syrup but not
black) so I don't think I need any black malt, but does anyone have any
suggestions or ideas from past experience?
Thanks-
Rob
RJordan at anl.gov
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 08:19:15 PST
From: "Jennifer Crum" <crumj at BCC.ORST.EDU>
Subject: hop bread
Hello to everyone out there in fermentation land.
Along the train of beer bread that was posted recently, I was wondering if
anyone had ever heard of, or tried to make, hop bread? A friend of mine is
going to try to make it and I thought I'd ask for advice from those who are
more knowledgeable than I...
Thanks for any help and you can post me directly.
Jennifer Crum crumj at bcc.orst.edu
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Date: 3 Feb 1994 08:17:21 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Wort and Oxygen
Howdy Group,
In response to Russell Kofoed's question about re-oxygenating a stuck
fermentation, I thought I would post this excerpt from my First Time Brewer's
Instructions, Rev C. Email me for a copy, but please don't put BEER in the
Header.
The Wort and Oxygen
- -------------------
The use of oxygen in brewing is a two-edged sword. The yeast need
oxygen to grow and reproduce enough to provide a good fermentation.
When the yeast has first been pitched, whether to the starter or
the beer, it needs oxygen to reproduce. The yeast makes use of the
dissolved oxygen in the wort. Boiling the wort drives out the
dissolved oxygen, which is why aeration of some sort is needed
prior to fermentation. The yeast first use up all of the oxygen in
the wort for reproduction, then get down to the business of turning
sugar into alchohol and CO2 as well as processing the other flavor
compounds.
However, if oxygen is introduced while the wort is still hot,
the oxygen will oxidize the wort and the yeast cannot utilize it.
This will later cause oxidation of the alchohols which gives a
wet cardboard taste. The key is temperature. The generally accepted
temperature cutoff for preventing wort oxidation is 90F. Likewise,
if oxygen is introduced after the fermentation has started, it will
not be utilized by the yeast and will later cause bad flavors.
This is why it is important to cool the wort rapidly to below 90F,
to prevent oxidation, and then aerate it by shaking or whatever to
provide the dissolved oxygen that the yeast need. Cooling rapidly
between 90 and 130 is important because this region is ideal for
bacterial growth to establish itself in the wort.
Most homebrewers use water baths around the pot, or copper tubing
Wort Chillers to accomplish this cooling in about 20 minutes or
less. A rapid chill also causes the Cold Break material to settle
out, which decreases the amount of protein Chill Haze in the
finished beer.
Aeration of the wort can be accomplished several ways:
shaking the container, pouring the wort into the fermenter so it
splashes, or even hooking up an airstone to an aquarium air pump
and letting that bubble for an hour. For the latter method, (which
is popular) everything must be sanitized! Otherwise, Infection City.
***
And for those looking for other Brewing Books, here are some good ones:
The Complete Handbook of Homebrewing - by Dave Miller
A great book for all the basics, highly recommended for
beginning and intermediate brewers.
Brewing the Worlds Great Beers - Dave Miller
Another good book which explores the basics of beer making
in a simpler approach than his Handbook.
Brewing Lager Beer - by Greg Noonan
A more technical book for the brewer who wants to know Why...
He covers the brewing processes in-depth.
John Palmer palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com
This is a great hobby, eh?!
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Date: Thu, 03 Feb 1994 11:32:18 -0500
From: rprice at cbmse.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Yeast Preservation
As I do cell encap for a living just thought I'd throw in my two cents
worth.
When you finish with a batch and want to keep the infection rate down,
to a manageable level.
And none of us will be able to reach 100% sterility, often even in the
best labs.
You may clean up your batch of yeast by filtering through a coffee filter
(Melita works nice), which will pass on many of the yeast cells and
retain the gook. Then let these settle, remove the excess water and then
do the following.
Clean your blender with BBrite, and fill with a bit of sterile water. Blend
in about 4% by weight sodium alginate (Kelco LV or equivalent).
Blend until it is hydrated (makes a nice clear suspension). Then add your
yeast at a 50/50 ratio with the alginate.
Now fill your blender with about a half to 1 cup of oil, and get it blending
on a very low speed so you see a vortex.
Follow this by looking on your brewshelf for gypsum (calcium sulphate),
add a small amount (about 1% by wt) to the alginate mix as fast as you
can. Then add in a slow stream at first.
Once the oil begins to look milky add the rest fast. Increase the speed to
maintain the vortex for about 10 minutes. Then stop.
The alginate/yeast will then separate from the oil. Pour off the oil.
Follow this by getting a fresh coffee flter, pour in the alginate/yeast and
let the excess water drain. Briefly wash the microcapsules in alcohol
(cheap vodka) to remove oil/surface contamination and kill off external
bacteria.
Freeze in freezer compartment.
Alginate works as a cryoprotectant (kinda like Yukon Jack for yeast).
Put in small quantities in a suitable container.
Make a starter, add microencapsulated yeast, let grow out , and !!!!
You should get your yeast back, fairly bacteria free, and ready to go.
Besides it's more fun than slants or petri-dishes.
In addition the alginate is super to use in beer for a fining agent, and a
heading agent......
Many producers do to keep the head on your beer when they put it in
those dirty, detergent contaminated mugs.
Cheers !!
A final thought (all the problems of mankind can be corrected by the
prevention of premature release).
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 10:38:25 -0600 (CST)
From: tony at spss.com (Tony Babinec 312 329-3570)
Subject: belgian malt ideas
First, what are these malts?
Cara-Vienne 20L crystal malt
Cara-Munich 72L crystal malt
Special B 200L "roasted" crystal malt
Biscuit Kilned specialty malt
Our homebrew club recently held a malt meeting, and Brian
North of North Brewing Supplies ran a blind tasting of about
a dozen imported crystal malts. This revealed in dramatic
fashion that the maltster and the malt have big effect on malt
flavor, which is then imparted into your beer.
Here are some ways to use them. A grain bill such as the
following:
xxx pounds pale malt
1 pound cara-vienne
2 - 3 ounces special B
produces an amber beer, as does:
xxx pounds pale malt
1 pound cara-Munich.
Either of these might be suitable grain bills for a pale ale or a
vienna.
For an abbey style beer, try the following:
xxx pounds pale malt
yyy pounds munich malt
0.5 pounds cara-vienne or cara-munich
2 pounds sugar or honey
1/4 - 1/2 pound special-B
noble hops to 30 IBUs
wyeast Belgian or Chimay yeast
Aim for 1.080 sg. Play with the proportion of Munich malt
and the amount of special B. Of course, depending on the
kinds and amounts of malt used, you'll get different colors
and flavors.
Finally, biscuit malt should be considered amber malt. Try
combinations of pale malt, crystal malt, and biscuit malt in a
pale ale, bitter, scottish ale, or strong beer.
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 12:04:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Mashing Wits
Al writes about ddry hopping:
>
> I'm not sure:
> Alt & Koelsch (I defer comment to Roger).
Alts yes, at least the really assertive ones from the Altstadt in
Dusseldorf. Koelsch, I dont think so. Very delicate hop nose and
flavor, not very arsertive. Great with Koln Caviar? (as long as you dont
ask what that is!).
>
> From: slkinsey at aol.com
> Subject: Mashing unmalted grains
>
> I am gathering information in preparation to brewing a Belgian Wit style
> beer. The grist will be approximately 45% raw, unmalted wheat. My question
> is how to go about mashing this stuff. Although regular infusion mashing
> would work to some extent, (wheat gelatinizes between 125 and 147 degrees)
> this method seems to produce uniformly low OGs due to the very low diastatic
> power of the grist.
If you havent done it how do you know? Infusion mashing of Wit beers with
45% raw wheat works, and to best of my knowledge, is the method of production
in Belgium. I have done it. Use long staged protein rests, and a dilute
mash. Remember, the OG is 1.044-.1048 ish so we arent looking for big
gravities.
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 11:15:43 EST
From: "Peter Miller {84663}" <pdm at swlvx2.msd.ray.com>
Subject: Hops roots
>Date: Wed, 2 Feb 94 07:46:21 EST
>From: "Paul Austin (8-293-5810 or (914))" <huckfinn at vnet.IBM.COM>
>Subject: Hops roots
>
>Where can I get Cascade hops roots for growing? I live in the
>Northeast, between Albany and NYC, and I'd like to know about
>any mail-order houses or stores in the area that sell these.
>
>Paul Austin
There is a beer/wine hobby mail-order outfit in Woburn, MA, called
Beer & Wine Hobby that sells hops roots on a seasonal basis. They
can be reached at:
Beer & Wine Hobby
180 New Boston Street, Rear
Woburn MA 01801
(617) 933-8818
Orders: 1-800-523-5423 Fax (617) 662-0872
Pete Miller
pdm at swl.msd.ray.com
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 09:13:54 -0800 (PST)
From: alm at ibeam.jf.intel.com (Al Marshall)
Subject: Organic Malting Barley (2nd Attempt)
Please excuse the first botched message.
A friend is searching for a commercial grower of
organic malting-quality barley. Any and all leads would
be appreciated.
Please respond to:
alm at ibeam.intel.com
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Date: Thu, 03 Feb 1994 10:11:26 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Oak Casks. Discussion of Worth!
*** Someone asked....
>> Does anyone have good sources for aging in oak casks ... access to
>> books with info ... <old books> ...snip
>Steve Tollefsrud of VALBONNE, France sed
>WHY?!
>Storing beer in oak casks would be bad.... wine in oak barrels ....
>to contribute TANNINS .... In beermaking, we do everything we can to avoid
>extracting bitter tannins from the grain husks, ...why put beer in oak.
* Well, time to disagree! Oak adds a character, a quality, that is much
desired for a beer. Even the King (spud) uses Beachwood. Wood is a flavor
that is much recognized in many QUALITY beers through antiquity. Watch
that episode of the BeerHunter and you'll understand why.
They look neat, and add tastes. Besides...it's fun tapping an OAK CASK.
I don't have the biochemistry down, but I'd be inclined to think that the
tannins from malt husks are different from the tannins in oak.
(my un-biochemical taste buds tell me so, for one).
There would not be a market, and references in various brew-texts to the
use of oak chips, and oak essence were it not for a desirable quality
imparted by oak. Check out Foster's Pale Ale book for a nice discussion
(and favorable!) of the use of oak for an GENUINE IPA.
Brewing Techniques had a nice article or Cask Conditioning in America.
It is true that most of these casks used by brewpubs are stainless steel,
but that's more for ease and assurance. Oak, or wood is a challenge, one
which requires a certain level of mastery and know-how to pull off
successfully. So if you aren't up to it... FINE. But Chips and essence
are out there to be had, and added to any brew deserving of such attention.
That same issue of BT had a list of suppliers of casks and parts.
I just lent it out, so if the original poster (sorry missed it) wants
that, drop me an e-mail and I'll send it to you when I get the mag back.
Maybe folks don't like oak in france, but it's pretty common in german beers.
BTW: If you missed it, check my report on the first Cask Conditioning
attempt in the same HBD as this previous message. I'm no master of Oak.
But hey...I'm willing to try. Cuz it's authentic, it's intersting to
learn about, it looks KOOL, and it has the potential to deliver a truly
fine brew. (if I can get things right!). It was amazing to watch a bunch
of fellowhomebrewers and american swill-quaffers consuming flat oakey beer
side by side, and enjoying it. I didn't notice any get tossed down the sink.
But I was too busy serving, and tasting myself. Got good responses.
BTW: The quotes were ...snipped...to avoid over recycling. Ok ulick?
\-\-\- John (The Coyote) Wyllie SLK6P at cc.usu.edu -/-/-/
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 12:15:38 "EST
From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com>
Subject: pH meter for < $60
Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat
Recently reading about expensive pH meters, I dug up the info on mine.
Byram Labs is selling a temperature correcting pH meter for less than $60.
The meter pH range is 0-14 and the temp range is 32-158F (0-70C). It is
accurrate to .1 pH unit. (What the heck is that unit called anyway???)
The unit also functions as a digital thermometer (a switch for C or F).
The model I have is HHPH1 (if you call them, ask for a "cut sheet" or just
talk to a technician for mre info). This model is easy to use, and though
it isn't accurate on BOILING water, I really don't need that for my brewing.
Byram Labs' phone number is 1-800-766-1212. Standard don't work for them,
own stock etc. but the meter is nice and not too pricey.
- --
-Gary Kuyat
gsk at sagan.bellcore.com
(908)699-8422
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 09:41:11 PST
From: bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: ales to lagers
I'm looking for advice and things to look out for when making
the big switch from ales to lagers. I've got a fair number of
all grain ales behind me. What are the big differences in
the malt to use, mashing techniques, and of course, fermentation?
Thanks for the help.
- Bryan
bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu
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Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 12:42:53 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: complete joy
A minor query:
How do you pronounce Papazian? Papa-zeeyawn? Pah-Pay-zion?
Or what?
TIA
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 1994 12:49:45 -0500 (EST)
From: COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L at Lilly.com
Subject: Re: All-Grain Strong Ale
I received several posts about my all-grain strong ale recipe. The long
ingredient lists (lots of crystals etc) was done for two reasons. Number
One and formost, this should be FUN. When I ponder what I will put in a
beer I have fun with it. Reason Two, I wanted this to be a complex beer.
It was complex. From a sweet, hoppy nose to a raisiny (thanx Spec. B),
malty, bitter flavor it went down easy.
This was a beer I would have wished to bottle, but I procrastinated and
ran out of time. Four days before my club meeting (spotlight on strong ales)
I kegged, chilled and force carbonated.
Even though I prefer the pale ale and porter styles, this was my best brew
so far. I enjoy the unusual. I have an Oat Pale Ale and a Pumpkin Dunkel
Weizenbock in their respective carboys right now.
I brew because it is fun!
Sandy C.
From: COCKERHAM SANDRA L (MCVAX0::RX31852)
To: VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE (IN::"homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com")
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 09:52:24 -0800 (PST)
From: gummitch at teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Dry-Hopping Advice
Al Korzonas writes:
>
> Yes. There is no doubt that Czech Pilsner is dryhopped and it is
> traditionally only dryhopped with Czech Saaz. I recomend whole or
> plugs (cause they float).
>
I think this is incorrect. I believe that the Czech brewers achieve
their hop character without any dry-hopping at all. In fact, according
to DeClerq, the brewers at PU consider the hop aroma to be something of
a defect -- an unfortunate result of their brewing process in their
quest for other characteristics of the beer's flavor profile.
If you can find a reliable source that credits the PU or Budvar brewers
with dry-hopping, I'd like to see it.
> Usually dryhopped:
> Czech Pilsner, English Pale Ale, Barleywine, American Brown Ale, American
> Pale Ale, India Pale Ale.
>
Barleywine? Al!
> Sometimes dryhopped:
> Bitter, Scottish Ale, Stouts, Strong English and Scotch Ales,
> several Belgian Ales (like Orval), Porter.
>
Once again, I find this spurious. I do not think that any of these
(except Bitter and Orval) are commonly (or even "sometimes") dryhopped.
Unless by that you mean that you've found one or two examples that have
been. Scotch ales, in particular, are noted for the *lack* of hop aroma
in the finish.
It is entirely possible, and actually far more common, to have a hoppy
finish in a beer that isn't dry-hopped at all. In fact, I would say
that dry-hopping is (outside of homebrew circles) a pretty rare
phenomenon.
> My advise: don't get too hung up on styles. Try dryhopping. If you like
> it, dryhop. If you want to make a dryhopped Mild, then don't let anyone
> stop you.
>
Well, yeah. But, on the other hand, don't expect to win any prizes with
a dry-hopped Mild, either.
- --Jeff
Return to table of contents
Date: 03 Feb 1994 12:52:53 -0500 (EST)
From: "J. Hunter Heinlen" <STBLEZA at grove.iup.edu>
Subject: RE:brewing in oak casks NOT!
In a recent HBD, steve_t at fleurie.inria.fr (Steven Tollefsrud) said:
>WHY?!
>
>Storing wine in oak casks is good. Storing beer in oak casks would be bad.
>The reason Bordeaux wine producers store wine in oak barrels for a couple
>of years is to contribute TANNINS to the wine which make the wine age
>better. In beermaking, we do everything we can to avoid extracting bitter
>tannins from the grain husks, so why defeat the purpose by putting the beer
>in oak??
Steven, you seem to be the only negative responce, and considering that the
others responces were from nine people who have done just what I asked, and
they had good to excellent results, I think you will understand when I tell
you that I consider your responce to be uninformed. Yes, there are some
tannins in oak WOOD, but not many. Mostly tannins occur in the leaves, bark,
and acorns. That's why I use the leaves, bark, and acorns to tan leather
with, and not the wood (yes, this is experience talking). I have tried oak
fermented and aged beers (a porter and an IPA), and enjoyed both, with both of
them not being as bitter as their bottled counterparts, and more mellow and
ballanced. BTW, one, the porter, was both casked and bottled from the same
batch. I tried both during the same evening, and, hence, both were aged for
the same length of time. The data points of experience seem to be against you.
Sorry for the long rant. Flames can be send to SOMEONE-ELSE at no.net.address.
+*****************************************+***********************************+
| This is only a test of the Emergency |J. Hunter Heinlen |
| Ontology System. Had this been a real |(AKA SCA Jacobus Jager Draake) |
| moral dilemma, you would have been told |(Internet:STBLEZA at GROVE.IUP.EDU) |
| what to believe. - The Government | Ideas Contemplated While You Wait |
+=========================================+===================================+
Life without pain has no meaning. I wish to give your life some meaning.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 09:43:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at ZGI.COM>
Subject: The Spent Grain Baking Company
I've received some requests for more details on this company so thought
a post was in order.
Their address and phone number is:
The Spent Grain Baking Company
2210 N. Pacific Street
Seattle, WA 98103
(206) 632-9506
Their packaging states in part:
We invite your comments. To receive recipes from our Brewer's Baker and a
catalog of Brewer's spent Grain Bread mixes for bread machines, send us
your name and address.
It all begins with the grain. The finest of our small Northwest brewers
brew their specialty beers in the handcrafted tradition using malted grains.
Wholesome grains called English Two Row and Five Row are roasted to halt
a brief germination that develops the distinct malt flavor. After
milling, the gristed and malted grains are steeped in warm water to form
the mash. In the mash tun enzymes quickly convert the starches in the
mash to sugar. The brewer then separates the grains from much of their
sugar in a liquor call the wort (ryhmes with shirt) and add the hops
which give beer it bitter nuance. After a brief boil in the brew kettle,
the master brewer gives eager yeast cells the task of brewing the wort
into delicious beers.
And what of the spent grains? Spent is a sad misnomer, for these flavorful
grains yet abound with nutrition and important dietary fiber...less
sugar. Fresh spent grains are recovered and blended with wholesome flour
by our Brewer's Baker. Dough enhanced by the spent grains is kneaded and
handcrafted into crusty loaves and rolls for your eating pleasure.
Beer? We believe beer is for drinking and therefore we do not use beer in
any of our bread...just the spent grain for flavor.
SPENT GRAIN BREAD: A rich chewy bread surrounded by a crunchy crust.
Spent grain from lighter Ales and Pilsners gives this slightly tangy
bread its unique flavor.
BREWER'S BREAD: Hearty round loaves with whole wheat, rye meal, and toasted
sunflower seeds. Great with soup or sliced for your favorite sandwich.
Only spent grain from Porters or Stouts for this rustic bread.
TRAPPIST SOUR: A light rye leavened with a sour starter of rye meal,
wheat flour, and brewer's yeast from a memorable Trappist Ale.
Standard disclaimers apply.
Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 10:10:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Zach Fresco <zfresco at helen.bush.edu>
Subject: stuck firmentation
Im a new brewer and I just siphoned my second batch into the secondary
fermenter and there is no action at all in the firmentation lock.
I used 3 and a half pounds of light malt extract, one pound of cinimen
honey and 2 and a half pounds of clover honey. I used cascade hopps if
thet makes any difference. The primery firmentation went normally but
when I siphoned nothing happened. when I shake the carboy there are a few
quick bubbles but then everything stopps. Help
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 13:19:30 "EST
From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com>
Subject: cancel article 02031015.17655
Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat
cancel article 02031015.17655
- --
-Gary Kuyat
gsk at sagan.bellcore.com
(908)699-8422
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 13:21:05 "EST
From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com>
Subject: Temp Correcting pH meter for < $60
Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat
Recently reading about expensive pH meters, I dug up the info on mine.
Byram Labs is selling a temperature correcting pH meter for less than $60.
The meter pH range is 0-14 and the temp range is 32-158F (0-70C). It is
accurrate to .1 pH unit. (What the heck is that unit called anyway???)
The unit also functions as a digital thermometer (a switch for C or F).
The model I have is HHPH1 (if you call them, ask for a "cut sheet" or just
talk to a technician for more info). This model is easy to use, and though
it isn't accurate on BOILING water, I really don't need that for my brewing.
Byram Labs' phone number is 1-800-766-1212. Standard don't work for them,
own stock etc. but the meter is nice and not too pricey.
- --
-Gary Kuyat
gsk at sagan.bellcore.com
(908)699-8422
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 13:33:31 EST
From: GREGORY T LALIBERTE <gtlali01 at msuacad.morehead-st.edu>
Subject:
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 10:51 PST
From: MAXWELLS at axe.humboldt.edu
Subject: Looking for Brew Schools
Prost! to everyone out in brew land...I am currently almost a graduate at
Humboldt State, in California...My major is geared toward business with
emphasis in chemistry...I am hoping to open my own brewery someday...I
want to go to brew school, but was wondering if anyone knew of a school
other than the Siebel Institute (this is my first choice)...I know they
have an excellent program, but I am looking for a west coast alternative.
Also, I am aware of UC Davis, but there's is more of a four year program and
is also wine related...So if anyone knows of anything west of the mississippi
please let me know...
Also, I just bought a mini-keg system from Brew Ha Ha, and was wondering if
anyone had any experience with this system...any feedback would be
appreciated...thanx
Humboldt Hophead
prost and jib heavily
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 12:45:00 PST
From: "Merchant, Thomas E" <temercha at hsv23.pcmail.ingr.com>
Subject: Request for Alaska (Chinook) beer recipe
I am looking for an extract recipe that approximates the amber brew named
Alaska beer. I understand that this beer used to be called Chinook beer.
Any guidance or recipes will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Thomas Merchant
temercha at ingr.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 12:53:08 CST
From: Paul_Biron_at_AOS200 at mmacmail.jccbi.gov
Subject: Underpriming
Can anyone give me suggestions on what to do with an underprimed batch of brown
ale. I used the normal 3/4 cup of corn sugar for priming but after nearly three
weeks, the carbonation level is very low. The bottles however do have a normal
amount of sediment. This was a partial mash recipe using YeastLab Irish ale.
Any feedback would be sincerely appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Paul Biron
FAA/AOS230
Oklahoma City
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Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 10:25:27 CST
From: "Edward F. Loewenstein" <SNREDLOW at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject: Calorie Chart
Good morning all!
I'll keep this real short because I don't want to take up bandwidth
due to sheer unadulterated stupidity.
Two days ago, Wed Feb 2, a homebrew calorie chart was posted. Did
anyone save a copy? If so, would you be so kind as to send it to me.
TIA,
Ed Loewenstein SNREDLOW at MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU
Univ. of MO
School of Nat. Res.
Forestry
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 1994 11:09:47 -0800
From: Richard Stueven <gak at wrs.com>
Subject: Re: Cannabis
>Date: Tue, 1 Feb 94 09:53:09 EST
>From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
>
>Just FYI: Cannabis and Hops are about as closely related as humans and
>monkeys. No real reason to think one would substitute for the other.
You obviously don't work in the software industry...
(Oof!)
have fun
gak
Richard Stueven, Castro Valley CA
gak & gerry's garage, brewery and hockey haven
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 94 13:12:32 EST
From: sdlsb.dnet!73410%sdlcc at swlvx2.msd.ray.com (Carl Howes)
Subject: hop removal/stout boil
Al wrote:
> Unless you cool before pouring through the kitchen strainer, you will have
> some Hot-Side Aeration. I simply use a hop bag for each hop addition and
> then remove the hops, bag and all, from the kettle after the boil.
I do, but warnings about HSA are generally in order - taking care in that
area has improved my beers enormously. My experience with hop bags was
that they tend to fill up and compress the hops (starting with plugs) and I
lose enough utilization in partial boiling already so I stopped using them.
YMM (and probably will) V.
I wrote (in a stout recipie):
> Boil for 90 minutes to drive off hop aromatics.
Al replied:
> Well, that might indeed happen, but it certainly is not *why* you boil.
I *knew* that! The problem here is frame of reference. My normal boil time
is 60 minutes which I extended until I could no longer smell anything that
registered as aromatics.
Carl
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Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 14:44:26 EST
From: carlsont at GVSU.EDU (TODD CARLSON)
Subject: Re:b bright
In my never ending quest for better (read more convenient)
sanitation, I have obtained some B Bright. The catalog said
"kills bacteria on contact" as did half of my beer stuff
catalogs. But the other half (and the B Bright container)
described it as a cleanser. In my mind cleaners and
sanitizers are not necessarly the same thing. Can any
of you knowledgeable folks out there on the information
superhighway set me straight on this one? Should I just
stick with NaClO (bleach)?
Thanks in advance for your info
Todd
carlsont at gvsu.edu
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Date: Thu, 03 Feb 94 15:01:34 EST
From: yeebot at aol.com
Subject: Lambic Digest on Net
Can somebody e-mail/post a subscription netdress for the Lambic Digest?
TIA!
Brew easy,
Mike Yee
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1342, 02/04/94