FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Cajun Cookers (COYOTE)
  Cutting the noise--Suggestion #94857684 (Jeff Frane)
  AA Variation / Noise (npyle)
  Quest for German Malty flavor/ decoction (Lee=A.=Menegoni)
  Kraeusen - To remove or not? (BUKOFSKY)
  Grassy, hay-like flavor (Domenick Venezia)
  first mead (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
  re:REcipe Newcastle Brown ("Phil Atkinson")
  Petes Ale Clone (CCAC-LAD) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
  request for yeast data ("Ron Hart")
  Wyeast 2308 Munich (ELQ1)
  On IBU Formulas (re: Jeff Frane) (Mark Garetz)
  Leaking CO2 Regulator (Tim Schramm) (Tim Schramm)
  Gas H2O burner, SideXSide fridge, stove grate advice needed. Epoxy update. (Richard Dante)
  Reinheitsgebot ("Dan Z. Johnson")
  Rice Adjunct (Christopher Alan Strickland)
  Leaking CO2 Regulator (Tim Schramm) (Tim Schramm)
  Mashing in 5 Gal IGLOO Cooler (k.reigle)
  Wheat Crud (Lowell Hart)
  Re: Blackberry Stout (Conn Copas)
  Bottle Priming (Jim King)
  all grain instructions (James Clark)
  Amber Alt Yeast/recipies???????? (Jeremy Wood)
  Advice Needed ("Andrew C. Winner")
  Addition to homebrew digest... (603)429-8553 - BESSETTE at UICC.COM" <bessette at uicc.com>
  Re: Metals (Conn Copas)
  Ginger juice ("Daniel F McConnell")
  N.E. Brepubs (aew)
  BOSTON COMPETITION (JIM MCNUTT)
  Rebottling (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  lauter kegs??/double decoction?? (RON)
  backpack brew and extract descriptions (Eugene Sonn)
  Commercial Kolsch (Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171  21-Feb-1994 1226)
  Oxygen Absorbing Caps (npyle)
  Differents Tastes from Same Batch (Christopher Alan Strickland)
  What makes Guinness Creamy? (David M. Berman)
  Autoclaving starters (GNT_TOX_)
  New Jersey Homebrewing Club ("Ron Hart")
  high fg stout (Shelton M. Hendricks)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 10:13:54 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Cajun Cookers

Ok, I know this will never make it in time, but I gotta try!

There's a place in my little happy valley selling a "Cache Cooker"
two burner propane stove, the cask black metal dealios, with 24" extension
legs. I checked it out. The model is something like SBL20 ???
The burners are rated a 60,000 btu.

So...I've heard that the burners range from 30,000- 200,000
with the 200-ers being jet engines, leaving NO control over temp.
I figure- it ain't the bottom of the line.  Question is: Will it
get my 15 gal pot to a rolling boil in a reasonalbe amount of time (30min?)

I have an electric stove upstairs which I'm taxing the hell out of.
(weight, excess running of the heat coils!)  And I'm hoping to move
all my brewing to the basement. For one thing- I'll be able to spill
on the floor, and just let it run down the drain, plus I won't have to
carry 6.5 gal carboys down two flights of stairs, outside thru the snow
to lager in the basement!

Ok- the good news: This baby is Krazy Daze prices at 68.97 (sugg.retail $135!)
So I'm thinking I should jump on it. It's semi portable and could be
set up in a garage, when I get one with plumbing and heat!
But in the meantime I'd like to run it in the basement next to a window
with a fan blowing out. That should be ok- ventilation wise??? Shudn't it?

Also (finally) I have a camper, with a propane tank. It is held sideways
but it can be removed. Is presume the fitting is the same as the BBQ tanks,
and that I can run the camp stove with it, as long as I rest it sideways-
right? I'm getting really psyched about this. Really making the basement
into a brewery!  Pico- man - think pico!

FYI: Not all 220 volt plugs are created equal. We put an electric stove
down there, but it turns out the dryer's 220 plug is rated for 30 Amps,
while stoves need 50 amps, so we'd have to replace all the wiring!
Now I've got an alternative!

Please e-mail me if you've got any suggestions/thoughts...The sale starts
monday, and I'm gonna go for it, unless someone talks me out of it!

	-/-\- John (The Coyote) Wyllie   SLK6P at cc.usu.edu  -/-\-


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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 07:21:43 -0800 (PST)
From: gummitch at teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Cutting the noise--Suggestion #94857684

Please pare your .sig files!  One fellow tried to unsubscribe
(incorrectly) and posted a .sig about 30 lines long.  Any number of
people are posting with .sigs about 12-15 lines long.  Grab yer egos by
the scruff and give 'em a shake, boys!  One-two lines really ought to do
it.

- --Jeff



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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 94 11:00:17 MST
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: AA Variation / Noise

The variations in hop alpha acid percentages (discussed by Jeff Frane and
Glenn Tinseth) may explain why Dave Miller takes such a swipe at Rager's IBU
utilization tables in the latest Brewing Techniques.  In his column, Miller
presents a couple of examples to show how far off the numbers appear to be.
Even at microbrewery scales of production, I would think it is likely that the
errors in the AA% are enough to cause some variability.  It makes me wonder
how many different batches of DM's example beers were tested, i.e. has he
worked out the variability in his own brewery?

**

Cathy Cullen's comments, and all other debate about discrimination, sexism,
etc. etc. etc. belong in private email.  This is way out of hand, and really
has nothing to do with brewing.  Oh yeah, MHO.

Norm

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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 94 11:36:12 EST
From: Lee=A.=Menegoni at nectech.com
Subject: Quest for German Malty flavor/ decoction

RE: Malty flavor and Decoctions.

I have been striving to attain the "malty" flavor and aroma found in
German beers like Spaten Ur Marzen. I seem to be getting closer but
still aren't there yet.  The "improvements" I have made to my process 
are:

Use German malts:
  They have more of the the precursor in them that produces this flavor
  than most other maalts including the DC Belgian malts. See George Fix's
  article on Belgian Grains in one of the early addition of Brewing
  Techniques for detailed technical data.

Decoction mash:
  The process of decoction mashing will transform the above mentioned
  precursors into the melanodins that produce the "malty" characteristic. 

All this is fine in theory.

I tasted the best home brewed Ofest I have had this fall.  It was infusion
mashed, made from 100% german Vienna malt with a tiny fraction of crystal
for color.  It was fermented with Wyeast 2308.  It had the "malty" profile
I was looking for.  I recently brewed a beer using a similar recipe did two 
decoctions, about 75% of the grist, but used Wyeast 2124 aka Weihenstephen
34/70.  It was good but not great.  I plan on brewing this recipe again.
Next time I will use the 2308 Munich yeast and pay closer attention to the 
water chemistry with attention to that in Munich.  I am beginning to suspect 
that, just as is the case with wheat beers, to get the German flavor and 
aroma its not just the malt and hops but the yeast and water are equaly 
important too.    
                                                                       
Lee Menegni  Lmenegoni at nectech.com





  


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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 13:03:37 -0400 (EST)
From: BUKOFSKY <sjb8052 at minerva.cis.yale.edu>
Subject: Kraeusen - To remove or not?


Hello all, 

  First of all, I wanted to thank everyone for quick and helpful responses
to my last few questions.  I know there has been a lot of talk about the
quality of this digest, but as a relative newcomer I think it's great.

  Anyway, I'd like to hear peoples opinions on whether to ferment with a
blow-off hose or not.  The question of removing or keeping the kraeusen
seems to be an old one; does it really affect the flavor of the beer that
much? I've heard a bit about fusel alcohols and such, but I've never heard
a definative answer.  Any info would be helpful.

Thanks,
Scott

No cute comment.




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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 10:20:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at ZGI.COM>
Subject: Grassy, hay-like flavor

My last all-grain batch, an ESB dry hopped 4 days with 1oz/5gal Kent
Goldings, has a grassy haylike flavor tone.  One opinion is that I
scorched the wort, but there was no scorching on the bottom of the brew
kettle, and I don't perceive the flavor as burnt.  Any ideas?  2 hour mash
 at  157-153, no mashout, OG: 1.056, FG 1.010, 8.5lbs Maris Otter, 8oz each
of flaked maize, crystal, cara-pils.  Sparged cloudy (Nurse! Nurse! More
patience, please), brew is cloudy too. 

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com





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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 1994 13:25 EST
From: CSS2 at OAS.PSU.EDU (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
Subject: first mead

Hi:  Having successfully made two batches of beer, I decided to try my hand at
a batch of mead last saturday. Recipe is as follows:
2.5 gal. water
5 lb. light honey
1 tsp. yeast nutrient
2 tsp. acid blend
one 5g. pack Red Star Pasteur Champagne yeast

The whole mess is bubbling away in my 3 gal. carboy...BUT, have a couple of
questions for the experienced mead-makers out there...
Any guess as to how long to ferment this (temp. is currently about 65F in the
house)?  How long do I let it go if I want sparkling mead (ie. bottling with a
little priming sugar) vs. how long to ferment completely?  Will it clear
completely?  Would it be better to cap this or cork the bottles (I have about
a dozen Chimey bottles I was thinking of using).
Thanks in advance for any advice...please reply directly to me, or to HBD
Curt Speaker
css2 at oas.psu.edu
Penn State Univ.

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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 94 11:47:03 PST
From: "Phil Atkinson" <PHATKINS at BCSC02.GOV.BC.CA>
Subject: re:REcipe Newcastle Brown

To: HOMEBR1 --INTERNET homebrew at hpfcmi.fc


The Broon is made by blending Newcastle Amber with another ale that never
comes through the brewery gate except in workers' lunchboxes maybe. I think
Dave Line's recipe certainly gets you close but the real thing has more of a
biere de garde tone to my taste buds. Newcastle United's football stadium
stands within whiffing distance of the brewery and night games are often
bathed in the glorious aroma of malt and hops ... what bliss! Incidentally,
the draught version of this ale (sold here in Canada) is not a bit like the
bottled version. Even that is noticably better when you get it in its city of
origin. I have it on good authority that new batches never last more than a
week in Newcastle. Understandable really.

cheers - Phil Atlinson, Victoria, British Columbia

- -------
Regards,
Phil Atkinson
F&CR, Communications Branch   Phone:  387-9285

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Date:     Fri, 18 Feb 94 15:26:11 EST
From: William Boyle (CCAC-LAD) <wboyle at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Petes Ale Clone

   Does anybody have a clone that comes close to petes wicked ale,
or even a direction I can go.  I looked in Cats II, nothing.  Thanks

						B^2

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Date: 18 Feb 1994 17:40:19 U
From: "Ron Hart" <hart at axon.rutgers.edu>
Subject: request for yeast data

Subject:                                                      Time:5:33 PM
request for yeast data                                        Date:2/18/94
I've been looking for a source of usable data for yeast growth and pitching
rates.  Most of us grow a specific volume of starter culture a certain length
of time and then just pitch it, but does anyone have information about real
#cells/5 gal for pitching?  Or cells/ml during growth phases?
Please respond by private e-mail.  If anything interesting turns up, I'll share
it.
Thanks,
Ron Hart (hart at axon.rutgers.edu)
Rutgers University
Newark NJ  



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Date: Thu, 17 Feb 94 16:43:05 PST
From: ELQ1%Maint%HBPP at cts27.comp.pge.com
Subject: Wyeast 2308 Munich

    Good Morning all you impeccable brewpeople, first, I'd like to say
   how I am thankful for the HBD, the good, the bad, and the ugly. tm.
    
    Now for a question, has anybody had any problems with Wyeast 2308
   Munich? My neighbor and I have had very fresh dated yeast that has 
   failed to rise in its pouch, and not just one or two times, a total
   of 6, two of which took 3 extra days to bloat, and did not produce
   a desired rate in the primary.  I have written to Wyeast, and am 
   awaiting their reply, if they bother, if not, they may lose a customer.
   
    So, on my last batch I pitched with Doric Amsterdam dry Lager yeast 
   that is not a lager yeast at all, as it clearly is top fermenting. 
   Oh how I kick myself for not saving the last yeast slurry from bottling.
   
    On one last note, I think the HBD is GREAT!, even the noise is tolerable
   and some folks, jerryb at aol.com have a great sense of humor..
   In the words of a recent 15 minute celebrity, Can't we all get along?
                   
                     Ed Quier    ELQ1 at PGE.COM

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Date: Fri, 18 Feb 94 23:14:15 PST
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com>
Subject: On IBU Formulas (re: Jeff Frane)

Jeff Frane asks about the accuracy of the AA% from
sample-to-sample.  Glenn Tinseth had a good explanation
a few messages earlier.

To summarize, the AA% are an average for a particular
"lot" of hops and as Glenn and Jeff point out, there will
be some variation from sample to sample.  But also as Glenn
points out the IBU calculations are subject to errors in
themselves as they are really little more than educated
guesses to get you "in the ballpark" for IBUs.

In my book, I *will* have a fairly lengthy (but not
difficult) formula that I think does a better job of
getting a brewer in the ballpark.  It is lengthy because
it attempts to account for more of the variables in the
brewing process.  The simple formulas can be way off the 
farther the beer and brewing conditions are from "median"
brewing styles.  For a median beer style, the simple
formulas and my lengthy one are likely to have about the
same error percentages.  But the more complicated formula
should more or less keep the same percentage error as
the beer moves away from median since the formula attempts
to correct for the shift.  The simpler formulas don't,
so the errors will get larger.

Bottom line:  Even complicated formulas are nothing more
than guesses.  If your beer does not have the right bitterness
and your hops came from a reputable source and have been stored
and packaged properly, IT IS PROBABLY THE FAULT OF THE 
FORMULA, EVEN A COMPLICATED ONE.  Dr. Michael Lewis and I were
talking about this very subject today (it was a coincidence -
I read the mail after I got back from UCD).  He said that
he is amazed that even microbrewers who don't get the bitterness
they want usually systematically blame everything *but* the 
bitterness calculation.  So if the formula (any formula)
says you should get say 20% utilization but the beer was not 
bitter enough, you need to make your own adjustments to the
formula (or it's result) until you get the beer right.

Mark


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Date: 19 Feb 94 12:27:47 EST
From: Tim Schramm <70401.1507 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Leaking CO2 Regulator (Tim Schramm)

About a year ago I bought a 5 lb CO2 dispensing set up from FOXX Equipment Co.
(1-800-821-2254). I dispensed two or three cornelius kegs without any trouble.
On the next keg, I found that the regulator was leaking CO2 around the 
diaphragm(?) and blowing out of a hole in the cover. On the advice of the 
beverage guy who refilled my CO2 tank I bought the standard Repair Kit for the
regulator and replaced the innards. That worked for the next batch of beer. 
After an idle time of about six weeks I just put up another batch and I'm 
hearing that annoying hissss again. I'm going to buy another Repair kit 
because my Weisbier needs to be carbonated and enjoyed. But I'd rather not 
have to keep spending $12 in addition to a $7 refill each time I get more gas.

I keep the CO2 in the refrigerator with the beer kegs. Is this the cause of my
problem? Maybe the down time without pressure on the diaphragm while being in 
the refrigerator hurt the diaphram? Any advice on this subject would make this
first time HBD poster one happy beer camper. TIA

 -Tim Schramm

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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 94 10:52:19 PST
From: rdante at icogsci1.UCSD.EDU (Richard Dante)
Subject: Gas H2O burner, SideXSide fridge, stove grate advice needed. Epoxy update.




HOT WATER HEATER BURNER. OBTAINING. PROPANE VS HOME NATURAL GAS.


What's the easiest way to get a gas hot water element free?
Anybody in San Diego have any luck getting an old hot water heater
free from a local plumber?
Last summer while housesitting for my
parents, the hot water heater started leaking and I had to get them a
new one. I got rid of the old one. A month later I brewed my first
batch. 6 months later I wish I had my paws on that heater bottom and a
hacksaw. :(

 -Is it easy to take the burner out of the heater?
 -Is it easy to convert the thing to LPG (liquid propane gas)?
 -Even better (unless I get a response of "NO! It's dangerous. Not
recommended" responses I welcome if they're true) how about installing
a T and a quick disconnect gas hose to the house natural gas line.
There's two spots: The kitchen stove, and the garage water heater (and
dryer lines). If any of you have done this I'd REALLY appreciate
hearing from you about how you did it/How you would do it if you had
to do it all over again.




STOVE TOP GRATING ADVICE NEEDED

In the meantime I'll be using my stove. I can fit the keg-kettle over
two burners although the burner centers are close to the edges of
kettle bottom. I can't quite put the heat on max or the flames lick
the sides.  The stove will get messed up if I put the kettle on the
stock grates so I need to make something that will hold the kettle a
little higher and protect things underneath a little better. I'm
asking for suggestions.


EPOXIED NIPPLES UPDATE

In HBD 1353 I talked about how I used epoxy to bond a nipple to my keg
hole. Although the epoxy is strong, heat resistant, and food grade it
has one problem I've encountered so far: You can twist it off pretty
easily. The instructions say it has an impact resistance of 0.5 ft-lbs
which isn't much at all. I plan on using some vise grips with a cloth
to hold the nipple whenever I take off the closest screw-ins (the
external 1/2inch adapter) which shouldn't be very often. Other times
I'll put a wrench on the adapter to hold it when I remove the
ball-valve.  If you haven't guess the epoxy un-bonded itself when I
was applying twisting force. I think it will be fine as long as I
leave the joint alone. When I KNOW this is the case I'll be sure to
report back. If any of you want to try this, don't hesitate because
the stuff comes off easy with a torch or by twisting the fitting with
a wrench and then cracking the stuff off.


GADGET MANIA

In HBD 1353 Jeff Benjamin gave those of us planning (but hesitating)
to go to all-grain an encouraging story  by telling us that even the
cheesy methods of his first all-grain batch made good brew.  Thanks!
Also he advised us to just jump in and worry about all the neat
gadgets later. I want to second this advice.  I'm a good example of
somebody obsessing over the gadgetry instead of just brewing beer. Do
as I say and not as I do. Get the equipment you need and get on with
homebrew. 


OPINIONS ON SIDE BY SIDE LAGERING FRIDGES REQUESTED

The opportunity has presented itself for me to obtain a 23 cu-ft
side-by-side fridge for cheap (to make do until I can move that 22
cu-ft chest freezer 400 miles). Cheap as in $25. The owner thinks it
needs a new freon charge because it cools fairly slow and that's why
he's selling it cheap.  Do any of you use side-by-sides for brewing an
like them? Is it possible to maintain lager temps in the freezer and
ale temps in the fridge (with the airstat sensor in the freezer).
The advantages I see are the cheapness. 


Rick Dante
rdante at ucsd.edu

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Date: 19 Feb 94 16:21:56 EST
From: "Dan Z. Johnson" <75430.3532 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Reinheitsgebot

ReinheitsgebotReinheitsgebotReinheitsgebot. What's all this about
Reinheitsgebot? It is law written to restrict brewing to the privilaged few. A
tax law. And there are other countries in the world that make good beer without
all the weird rules. Am I missing something?
 -Z


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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 94 17:07:32
From: Christopher Alan Strickland <beach!chris at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Rice Adjunct

I've seen several people talking about using a rice adjunct.  I've also
seen it in the homebrew store at about $3.75 a lb.  Kinda of expensive
when rice is .35 a lb.  Is there a way to mash the rice you buy to use
as the rice adjunct, if so, how?

Also, what does beechwood really do for beer, in my last batch I put
beechwood in the beer after steaming for over an hour to kill the
bad stuff.  No beechwood taste in the beer, it's a brown ale.  Though
it does seem clearer (I also used Irish Moss too).


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Date: 19 Feb 94 12:27:47 EST
From: Tim Schramm <70401.1507 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Leaking CO2 Regulator (Tim Schramm)

About a year ago I bought a 5 lb CO2 dispensing set up from FOXX Equipment Co.
(1-800-821-2254). I dispensed two or three cornelius kegs without any trouble.
On the next keg, I found that the regulator was leaking CO2 around the 
diaphragm(?) and blowing out of a hole in the cover. On the advice of the 
beverage guy who refilled my CO2 tank I bought the standard Repair Kit for the
regulator and replaced the innards. That worked for the next batch of beer. 
After an idle time of about six weeks I just put up another batch and I'm 
hearing that annoying hissss again. I'm going to buy another Repair kit 
because my Weisbier needs to be carbonated and enjoyed. But I'd rather not 
have to keep spending $12 in addition to a $7 refill each time I get more gas.

I keep the CO2 in the refrigerator with the beer kegs. Is this the cause of my
problem? Maybe the down time without pressure on the diaphragm while being in 
the refrigerator hurt the diaphram? Any advice on this subject would make this
first time HBD poster one happy beer camper. TIA

 -Tim Schramm

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Date: Sun, 20 Feb 94 00:06:00 BST
From: k.reigle at genie.geis.com
Subject: Mashing in 5 Gal IGLOO Cooler

Back in HBD 1334, Kelly Doran <rrc!earth!kelly at uu.psi.com> asked about using
 a 5 gallon IGLOO cooler for a mash tun:
 
> 1.)  When using a 5 gallon IGLOO cooler, how many pounds of grain will it
 >     hold and still be able to maintain an exceptable water to grain ratio
 >     for the mash?
 
I've used the IGLOO 5-gallon cooler for 5 batches so far, using grain bills
 of 9 - 11 lbs.  11 lbs grain with associated water filled the cooler to
 within 1 inch to the top using a 1.5" high false bottom.  My latest batch
 used 9 lbs grain and filled the cooler to the 4 gal mark (I used a PVC
 manifold this time).  I don't remember how much water I used, since I did a
 combined infusion/decoction mash with protein rest.
 
> 2.)  How much will the temperature drop in 45 to 60 minutes using a single
 >    infusion mash?
 
I'm not sure...I must confess I don't watch the temperature as closely as
 I should.  Because I didn't juggle appointments well enough, the last batch
 I did sat for 90-120 minutes and temp dropped from around 158 deg to around
 150 deg.
 
I hope these experiences help you in your decision :^)
 
 -Kurt Reigle
 
 
 
 

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Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 02:28:24 -0800
From: Lowell Hart <lhart at CATI.CSUFresno.EDU>
Subject: Wheat Crud

YOW! I did my first mash with  wheat malt last night, and wound up with
the ugliest gray crud I've ever seen in a layer across the top of
my mash/lauter cooler. Looks like the silt that runs off the streets
into the storm drains during aheavy rain. It tasted sweet (this took
courage) and my sparge water ran through OK, but I was not prepared for
a mash tun with a petroleum tinge. 
I only had 22% wheat malt, and expected the cloudiness of the wort
(which is already clearing in the carboy) and even knew the whole
thing could turn into a glutinous mess. I did a protein rest,and
a fairly low-temp saccrification rest, and got good extraction.
So what's the deal with this layer of grunge?

Lowell Hart
San Joaquin WORThogs
Raketenflugplatz, Fresno
lhart at cati.CSUFresno.edu



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Date: Sun, 20 Feb 94 15:42:28 GMT
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Blackberry Stout

Christopher Alan Strickland asks about recipes for blackberry stout. I
personally regard fruit (particularly berries) as a wonderful complement to the
harshness of stouts. My favoured approach is to employ a high-quality cordial
at _drinking_ time, as the fruit sweetness is part of the experience. OK, so
some purists won't like that one. The next best thing is to go fruit picking in
Autumn. As has been observed with other fruit beers, more is generally better
(ie, at least 1 lb and up to 2 lbs per gall). Preferably add the fruit to the 
secondary in order to maximise flavour and volatiles. I do a rough sanitisation
by soaking the _whole_ fruit in sulphite for 15 mins, then rinsing. 10 lbs of
blackberries will add considerable acidity to the brew, which will give it a
winey note. If you don't like that, be prepared to reduce the acidity with some
chalk or bicarbonate solution (in an incremental fashion, of course). The most
technically correct way to approach this is to get hold of a winemaking acid
test kit, and titrate the acidity both prior to and after the addition of the
fruit, in order to restore the acidity to its original level. Be aware that
detecting end-point colour changes in stout is no simple matter! Also, 
reducing the acidity will simultaneously reduce the apparent fruit sensation,
so be prepared to experiment to your own tastes. Any dry stout recipe will do,
but some crystal malt sweetness is a good idea to compensate for the loss of
fruit sweetness caused by the fermentation. 

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Date: Sat, 19 Feb 94 09:26:00 -0800
From: jim.king at kandy.com (Jim King)
Subject: Bottle Priming



Martin Snow writes:
H>I've recently acquired a bunch of 0.5 liter bottles (16.9 oz) ... 
H>or will the usual (3/4 cup) corn sugar be ok. 

  I regularly mix 12oz, 16oz, and 24oz bottles, and my standard 2/3 cup 
of corn sugar works fine for all sizes.  I havn't noticed any 
carbonation difference between different bottles from the same batch.  
If you use a bottling want, it should create just the right amount of 
head space to absorb the pressure.

02/19/94	09:17
Jim King
jim.king at kandy.com


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Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 14:06:44 -0500
From: jeclark at bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (James Clark)
Subject: all grain instructions

hi,
it seems people have been writing in the answers they received to questions
they posted here, so i'll do the same:
i asked about where i could find clear, concise instructions to all grain
brewing.  the overwhelming response was to buy Dave Miller's "The Complete
Hnadbook of Home Brewing."
i also got several responses saying that his second book, "Brewing the
World's Great Beers," is good for the beginning all grain-er.

thanks for all the replies

- --james


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Date: Sun, 20 Feb 94 15:51:06 PST
From: sloppy at hotcity.com (Jeremy Wood)
Subject: Amber Alt Yeast/recipies????????

I was wondering if anyone knows of an alt yeast that takes like St. Stans
microbrewery in Modesto CA???  Or for that matter if anyone had a recipe.
If you've never tried the St. Stans Amber Alt your really missing out.
Thanks, enjoy

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Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 19:28:02 -0500
From: "Andrew C. Winner" <acwinner at wam.umd.edu>
Subject: Advice Needed


I've been reading HBD for several months, I figure I might try to
help out those who are yearning for more brewing talk by asking
a number of questions.  First, I'm a novice extract brewer (
3 brews with fellow brewers mostly as an observer, one pale
ale brewed and drunk, a German Alt in the bottle).

Siphoning from carboys:  I racked my alt from a plastic pail
to a glass carboy after 9 days.  My problem came when I
tried to siphon from the carboy into the bottling bucket.
I could not use the Papazian method of a hose full of 
water (can't fit the hose with thumb over end into the
carboy neck).  Is the only option to gargle with Baccardi
151 and hope for the best or am I missing some relatively
easy solution for mouth-bacteria-free siphoning?


Alt Lagering:  At the moment, the alt is sitting quietly
in the dark in the basement at around 64F (in bottles).
Should this beer be in a fridge?  What are the benefits
(I used Wyeast #1007 ale yeast)?  Is it necessary to get
close to the style of beer I am trying to replicate?

AHA Competition:  (I know, I know, pretty plucky for a
novice extract brewer, but...)  If one enters such a
competition (by mail), does one get back the judges
scorecards and remarks?  This is the only reason I
am considering entering -- I need some real homebrew
experts to give me some further guidance.  My friends
(and I) liked the first batch, but I'm striving for
excellence and it would be useful to have some 
feedback from those who have more experience.

Kolsh Recipes:  Someone requested Kolsh recipes a few
HBD's back.  One all-grain was posted.  Were any
extract-based ones sent around?  If so, would someone
please send them along to me?  (the interest in Alt
and Kolsh stems from a trip in October to the Koln
and Dusseldorf areas).

Thanks in advance.  Private email replies are welcome,
but please post if you think any of this is of general
interest.

Drew Winner (acwinner at wam.umd.edu)

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Date: Sun, 20 Feb 1994 20:17:34 EST
From: "Systems Analyst (603)429-8553 - BESSETTE at UICC.COM" <bessette at uicc.com>
Subject: Addition to homebrew digest...

   First of all I think the following questions are questions that any 
  beginner who is interested in moving from extract to all-grain would
  have. I am happy with the results of my extract brewing but I am intrigued
  at the prospect of doing all-grain brewing. I've heard that the quality of
  the final product increases dramatically and just the fact that you are
  creating from scratch and not relying on an extract producer is the other
  alluring aspect of all-grain brewing. Therefore, I am faced with a dilemma
  of sorts. How do I make this transition in a reasonable way financially and
  still make a good product? Many of my concerns are contained in the questions
  detailed below. I would welcome anyone who has made the transition to speak
  to these questions. 
   I do understand the intricasies involved in all-grain brewing because I was 
  fortunate enough to participate as a friend of mine made a batch of all-grain 
  brew. He utilized a sparging system called Phil's Laudertun which sells for 
  a reasonable amount and seemed to do the trick for him. He ran into problems 
  though when it came to boiling. Due to the fact that he did not have a 
  really large pot, he had to break his wort into 2 containers for boiling. 
  He also simply used a plastic pail for mashing and placed this in a box 
  and insulated the outside with insulated material. Since he was only doing 
  a single-temperature mash it seemed to work fine for him.

  This leads me to the following questions:

 - I saw a 22-quart stainless steel pot in a store but am wondering if this will
  be large enough for boiling my final product? I have been told that to do
  a 5-gallon batch I should probably have at least a 7 gallon pot for boiling.
  Does anyone out there have any ideas on where I can get something this size
  or how I can make something this size? Also will a conventional electric 
  stove do the trick as far as boiling my wort in a pot of this volume? If
  it won't are there any suggestions out there as to what I can buy to do this
  boiling without breaking me financially?

 - To perform my mashing I have read that some people use a picnic cooler. I 
  intend to do the single temperature mashing since I have heard good things
  about this type of mashing. Is there any other type of container I could
  use for single-temp mashing besides the plastic pail mentioned previously?

  Any extract to all-grain suggestions or experienced observations would be 
  greatly appreciated. All my best to you... 

 Bob Bessette 
 Unitrode Integrated Circuits
 Merrimack,NH 03087

 Please send any advice to address: bessette at uicc.com 


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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 11:12:01 GMT
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Metals

John (the Coyote) asks about the effects of copper:

"SO...noone else out there has had any problems with copper oxides?
Or has any knowledge of them?  No metallurgists/chemist amongst us?
NOBODY offered any similar incidence, or advice.  Hmmmm. Am I truly
the only one who's ever had such a problem? I feel so scpecial. (lisp)"

The first time I came to England was the first time I found out what chalky
water was like. Being a tea (as well as beer) fanatic :-), I immediately
decided that my tea infusion water needed treating with acid in order to reduce
tannin extraction. Unfortunately, I overdid it. After a few weeks, I noticed:
(a) the element in my kettle was looking suspiciously shiny, and (b) the tea
was making me nauseous shortly after drinking it. 

Conn V Copas   C.V.Copas at lut.ac.uk

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Date: 21 Feb 1994 07:17:16 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel_F_McConnell at mailgw.surg.med.umich.edu>
Subject: Ginger juice

Subject:  Ginger juice

An easy and simple method of adding ginger to make 
ginger beer is to use ginger juice.  Take fresh 
ginger root, peel and puree in a food processor or 
blender.  The semi-solid pulp can then be squeezed 
through cheesecloth and the juice used in brewing.  
The juice is cloudy (it separates, so mix it well 
before using), VERY potent and completely 
eliminates the problems associated with pulpy 
material clogging racking tubes. It is also a much 
more accurate method of adding ginger.  Good for 
marinades and Thai food too!

DanMcC




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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 09:16:43 -0500
From: aew at spitfire.unh.edu
Subject: N.E. Brepubs

In my experiences with New England Brew Pubs, they all are a great
place to take a familly - good food, yuppy atmosphere - most have a
'back room' or basement with live entertainment usually called the
'bar' or 'pub' they also have a quieter section called the 'dining room'. 
I have seen many people there with infants enjoying themselves. If you go in 
the afternoon or early evening (Bevore 7pm) the live entertainment probably
won't be there yet and it will be quiter than if they were.

I suggest strongly both of these within driving distance from the lakes area:

Closest: Portsmouth Brewery - Portsmouth N.H. In the historic market
square area of Ports. Great shops around (Including a great homebrew
store ACROSS THE STREET called Stout Billy's). Also 10-15 mins. from
Kittery Me. and all the outlet shops there.  The Brewery (as the locals
call it) has great food and beer. Try their "Old Brown Dog" brown ale -
it has GABF silver medal.

Farther: If you Ski and are going up to Maine (To Sunday River ski
resort in Bethel Me.) There is a Brew Pub, not related to the Ski
Resort, called the Sunday River Brewing Co. Their food and beer is also
excellent. Right now they have their 6 standard beers plus a special
stout and a barley wine.

Also near there in Kittery (Or Kennybunkport?) there is another fairly
new brewpub/microbrewery that is good but I forget the name - never
been there - but had some bottled beer from the microbrewery and it was good.

Also, if you're going to visit Boston (or fly in and drive to NH from 
the Airport)

Boston: Many to list, I reccomend: 
Downtown/goverment Center: Commonwelth Brewery - most authentic English
Bitter obtainable in N.E. - I went there within 2 weeks from returning
from England and their Bitter was the only one that even came close to
the 'Real' stuff. I believe their master brewer is English. Good stout 
there also.

Cambridge/Harvard Square - John Harvard's Brew Pub - Good food
(German-ish menu) beer is good, but not as good as Commonwelth Brewery.
 - also -
Non brewpub place of HIGH interest: In Harvard square there is a
restaraunt/pub called the Wurst House (sp?) German atmosphere - many
taps (12-15) and about 100+ bottled beers on the beer menu (about 75%
usually in stock) If you're in the area anyways, stop in and check out
their beer menu for a treat or two!

There are many others, these are ones that I frequent and enjoy - hope
this info helps your visit to New England.

 -Allan Wright


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Date:        Mon, 21 Feb 94 09:37:05 EST
From: JIM MCNUTT <INJM%MCGILLB.BITNET at VM1.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: BOSTON COMPETITION

I understand there is a beer competition in Boston in May.  Could
someone please send me information on the competition including
the address of the site where the competition will take place and
the dates.  Thanks.  Please send to INJM at MUSICB.MCGILL.CA.
Jim

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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 10:26:03 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Rebottling

Re: transferring beer from 22 oz bottles to 12 oz bottles.

It's painful.  It may or may not work, depending on the carbonation
level of your beer.  And, the beer will gather some oxygen in the
process, so you'll want to drink it quickly.

The process: Chill the beer and receiving bottle as cold as you can
without freezing the beer.  Preferably, use a new, clean bottle to
receive the beer, so it will have as few scratches, etc. that can act
as nucleation points for bubbles (how would it get scratched on the
inside?).  Open the source bottle and pour very gently into the tilted
receiving bottle.  Try to do it without a funnel, as it would just
further agitate the beer, increasing CO2 outgassing and O2 absorption.
Quickly cap the receiving bottle with an O2 absorbing cap.

=S

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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 10:34 EST
From: RON.admin at admin.creol.ucf.edu (RON)
Subject: lauter kegs??/double decoction??

What are the nets pro-con opinions of using a converted 5 gal Cornelius
keg for a gravity fed lauter tun.  I am just getting started in all grain
and would like to use an existing keg.  This would be an open topped
container and the ball/pin valves would be removed.  I was going to fit
some sort of screen or strainer around the down tube of the bottom of
the keg.     ????     Should the down tube be changed to a larger one to
allow larger initial grains to pass.

Trying to follow Noonans double decoction procedure and was
wondering how much liquid should be present (%grain  or  %liquid)
in the decoction kettle (to avoid scorching)?  Should there be different
amounts in each of  the decoctions?
- ------------
Ron Raike  -  Facilities / Computers / Networks / HomeBrew
CREOL - Center for Research and Education in Optics       \  |  /
        and Lasers at the University of Central Florida    \\|//
- -------------------------------------------------------------*-------
email      ron at laser.creol.ucf.edu                         //|\\
phone      407.658.6803                                   /  |  \
fax        407.658.6880


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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 11:15:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Eugene Sonn <eugene at sccs.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: backpack brew and extract descriptions

Bart wrote about backpacking brew.  I have a few suggestions and 
comments.  I would argue that it would stink to have to buy and _carry_ 
enough stove fuel to brew with, so I would suggest brewing over a 
campfire.  This would provide some entertainment during the dark evenings 
especially in fall, winter and spring.  This also seems perfect for a 
base camp trip.  You could even do a real natural lager by sticking the 
bottles in a mountain stream.  If you ever try this let me know how it 
goes since I plan to hike the whol Appalachian Tail in the near future 
and beer on the trail would be a Godsend.  

Second, I have a favor to ask all of the HBD.  When you post extract 
recipes, please list them as hopped or unhopped.  I know it should be 
obvious, but it still would make things a bit easier, especially for us 
novices.

Eugene
eugene at sccs.swarthmore.edu

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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 12:29:23 EST
From: Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171 21-Feb-1994 1226 <macneal at pate.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Commercial Kolsch

John Montgomery asked about commercially available Kolsch.  I've had 2.
They might be difficult for you to get unless you travel to New England.
One is Long Trail Kolsch from a brewery in Vermont.  It is available in 
bottles.  The other is Kenmore Kolsch and is only available on tap at the
brewpub at which it is made -- The Boston Beer Works across the street from
Fenway Park.

Keith MacNeal
Digital Equipment Corp.
Hudson, MA

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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 11:23:33 MST
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Oxygen Absorbing Caps

Al's discussion of oxygen absorbing caps mentioned:

>...........................................................  If your
>supplier is selling them in paper hags or storing the full cases "in the
>back somewhere" they could be shot by the time you buy them.  .......

This is probably true in the mid-west and the eastern states, but not so in
many western states.  I live in Colorado where 15% humidity is not uncommon.
I wonder what kind of deterioration you could expect with a given humidity
level?  This type of data would be welcome from the manufacturer.

Norm
npyle at n33.stortek.com

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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 13:51:19
From: Christopher Alan Strickland <beach!chris at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Differents Tastes from Same Batch

I'm at a lost with my last batch of beer, it's a brown ale.  Nearly half
the bottles have a nice hops taste, half just taste like beer, nothing
special (like the other half) and two bottles have had a sour taste.  What
could cause the differences in the beer?  It was dry-hopped, and I used
beechwood too in during the secondary fermentation.  (I steamed the beechwood
for about an hour to kill any bacteria).  The major difference between this
and my previous batches, not counting the two differences above, were that
I didn't stir after priming, I added the priming liquid while racking into
the bottling vessel and let the whirlpool effect do the stirring.  Any
ideas are greatly appreciated.
- -- 
Chris Strickland
Internet: beach!chris at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov


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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 10:59:11 -0800 (PST)
From: eyeball at netcom.com (David M. Berman)
Subject: What makes Guinness Creamy?

I've had several homebrewed stouts and porters and none are creamy and
rich tasting the way Guinness is.  They also tend to taste a bit
grassy -- probably a property of misuse of specialty grains.  Anyone
know what makes Guinness creamy?

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Date:     Mon, 21 Feb 94 15:14 EST
From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:  Autoclaving starters

I posted a message about autoclaving starters.

The general consensus from the E-Mail I recieved is that there is no
need to autoclave the stuff, since standard canning procedures work
just fine at keeping the wort sterile.

Just thought you'd all like to know...


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Date: 21 Feb 1994 15:20:20 U
From: "Ron Hart" <hart at axon.rutgers.edu>
Subject: New Jersey Homebrewing Club

Subject:                                                      Time:3:12 PM
New Jersey Homebrewing Club                                   Date:2/21/94
The next meeting of the Cranford, New Jersey Homebrewing Club meets
this Sunday, February 27, at 2:00 PM at the Hanson House on 
Springfield Avenue.  I've noticed several contributors to the Digest
with New Jersey addresses, and I'd like to invite anyone in the area
to attend.  We're still pretty informal, with occasional presentations
on various subjects, but mostly we share and enjoy each others' 
products.  There's about 1/3 grain brewers in the group, and an
outstanding brew guru, Dave Hoffman, of the Brewmeister homebrew
shop.  Please come and bring a few bottles of your best!  Any questions
or for directions, please e-mail me directly.

Ron Hart (hart at axon.rutgers.edu)
Dept. of Biological Sciences
Rutgers University - Newark NJ



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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 15:22:45 +119304128 (EST)
From: shendric at polar.bowdoin.edu (Shelton M. Hendricks)
Subject: high fg stout

Hey anyone,
	A friend and I brewed a stout very similar to Papazian's toad spit
stout recipe, which calls for hopped malt extraxt syrup as well as dried
extract, specialty malts, etc. (OG=1.053).  Anyway, fermentation has
stopped at spec grav=1.026 (the recipe predicts 1.015).  What's wrong?  
				Thanks,
				Mike Hendricks
				shendric at polar.bowdoin.edux

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1355, 02/22/94