FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  artesians (Russell Kofoed)
  Molasses? (David Killian)
  Wyeast Brettanomyces/Dead? Lager/Wyeast #2308 off-aromas (korz)
  Chill haze (Richard Nantel)
  World-wide Brew Club List (Brian Schlueter)
  Castlemaine Lager (Paul Merrifield)
  Thanks, I'm Fine (Jack Schmidling)
  Gone Fishin' (Steve Daniel)
  RE: bitter brew (P Brooks)
  homebrewery construction (Teague_Joel)
  BrewTip 'O the Day (Brian Schlueter)
  Sweetening meads, wine; CAUTION against Potassium Sorbate (Karl A. Sweitzer)
  Brooklyn bitterness (VIALEGGIO)
  Huber Bock (Sean Rooney)
  Capital City Bar & Grill (Lee Bertagnolli)
  Extract-based cream ale? ("Steven W. Smith")
  Wanted: Taunton Cider tap (Michael Sharp)
  homebrewing for the non-technical (Laura Conrad)
  mashing rye malt (Michael Burgeson)
  33 qt enamel on steel pots (Mark Bellefeuille)
  legal limits to homebrewing (JHENKE)
  Brewpots (Andrew Patti)
  Draft Bitter/Axial Hopback/MRVS (npyle)
  Brewpub Startup? (Timothy Sixberry)
  Easy siphoning (Derrick Pohl)
  Pelletized hops (Kurt Eaton)
  Various Beginner Topics, HBD Comments ("Palmer.John")
  All-grain batch sizes (708) 938-3184" <HANSEN.MICHAEL at igate.abbott.com>
  Homebrewing BBSs, Austin Brewpubs ("J. Andrew Patrick")
  can an infection give "haze"? (Peter Maxwell)


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For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 12:28:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Russell Kofoed <kofoedr at elwha.evergreen.edu>
Subject: artesians

Howdy folks, Remember those commercials for Olympia beer in the 70's? 
Well I live in Olympia and there is, believe it or not, an artesian spring
which gushes out of a pipe in a parkinglot downtown.  I was wondering
about brewing with the stuff.  It is great tasting water.  Do you think it
will come with wierd micro-organisms or anything?  I was thinking of just
sterilizing 5 gallon milk jugs and going down and filling up-using two for
cooking and putting three in the fridge to add before pitching the yeast. 
Does this sound like a workable idea?  
Thanks in advance

Russell Kofoed
kofoedr at elwha.evergreen.edu



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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 14:49:20 -0600
From: David Killian <dkillian at memh.ti.com>
Subject: Molasses?


Hello fellow brewers,

I'm pretty new to the world of brewing, only a handful of
batches under my belt, but I was wondering about the affect
that molasses would have (say 1-2cups) when introduced at the
same time the malt extract is added to the wort (soon to be).
If using a amber malt, would it darken it, make it more bitter
or more sweet?  Pappazian mentions it adds a buttery flavor, 
but makes no further mention of it.  

thanks,

David P. Killian
(dkillian at memh.ti.com)


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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 15:32 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Wyeast Brettanomyces/Dead? Lager/Wyeast #2308 off-aromas

Joel writes:
>...the new Wyeast Brettanomyces culture...
>The Wyeast flyer at the local homebrew shop says this can be used to
>brew Lambics.  Having read the recent posts on the subject, I realize
>that this is gross oversimplification, if not misinformation.  However,
>this begs the question: "What is this stuff good for?"  Certainly Wyeast...

It is meant for trying to brew a pure-culture Lambiek (or pLambiek, as
we've come to call it in the Lambic Digest).  You will also need some
kind of Saccharomyces yeast and some kind of lactic acid-producing
bacteria such as Pediococcus Cerevisiae.  There are no guarantees that
you'll duplicate Cantillon or Boon, but there are a large number of us
out here taking a crack at it.

>Also, the fact that all of the packages that I have seen are puffed up
>tells me that this stuff may keep eating after S. cerevisiae goes
>to sleep.  Must the resulting beer be pasteurized or filtered to prevent
>exploding bottles?

Well, the reason that the packages are swelling is because the Brett is
a very slow fermenter and continues to ferment a little even after
packaging by Wyeast.  I believe that it may be able to ferment some
sugars that Saccharomyces cannot, but I have some pKriek that was bottled
about a year ago (after 6 months in the primary and 12 months in the
secondary) and it does not gush.  Yes, this beer takes some time to brew.
The beer may taste fine after 2 months, but the Brett and Pedio character
take at least 8 months to become apparent.

*****
Andy writes:
>to go ahead and do a lager, after all these ales.  I used a Yeast Labs
>liquid lager yeast, and got the thing started fermenting in the fridge
>at 46 degrees F or so.  Everything was all fine (should I say cool?).
>
>I didn't get around to doing anything about racking into another carboy
>until the other day, about a month into the ferment.  At that point there
>were still a steady supply of tiny bubbles rising up through the brew.
>
>After I racked, no more bubbles.  I'm thinking (not worrying, mind you)
>that I left all the yeast behind when I racked.  The beer is just sitting
>there in the carboy, looking clearish.  It's been 36 hours since I racked,
>and I don't see any signs of fermentation continuing.  SG is 1.020.

Everything should be fine.  When you racked, the racking induced a partial
vacuum in the beer (at the very top of the siphon arrangement) and this
brought a lot of the CO2 that was in solution, out of solution.  Until
the beer saturates with CO2 again, it will not give off gas.  After a
month at 46F, I'd say you probably can bottle pretty soon and then
lager in the bottles.  I'm quite sure you did not leave all the yeast
behind.  A Bock that I did a while ago spent ~2 weeks in the primary
and another ~6 weeks in the secondary all at 45F and carbonated just
fine without the addition of any yeast at bottling time.  This was
with Wyeast #2308, Munich Lager.

********
Bob asks about sulfury odors with Wyeast #2308.

The aromas I recall from using #2308 (Munich Lager) were intensely
"yeasty" or "bready," not sulfury, but then again, #2308 is reported to
sometimes be "unstable" whatever that means (George, help!).  I would
just bottle it when it's done, lager at 40F and taste it once a month
till it tastes good.  My Bock made with #2308 took 4 months to lose
a strange aroma, but then won a few awards.

Al.

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Date: 21 Feb 94 21:43:28 EST
From: Richard Nantel <72704.3003 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Chill haze

Thanks to all who sent in suggestions for an all-grain Sierra Nevada Pale 
Ale. It has been in the bottle for two weeks now and is by far the best 
batch I've ever brewed. 

One thing stands out in this batch: it is as crystal clear as a filtered 
beer. Although my all-grain beers are clearer than past extract beers, I 
have never before brewed a beer that is so sparklingly clear. Line up a 
million bottles of this batch, shine a 15W lighbulb through one end, and 
you can read the phonebook in the dark at the other end. (Well, almost.) 

I'm not sure why this is but has made me think about the problem of chill 
haze. Specifically why I've had this problem (to various degrees) before 
and why is it so totally absent in this batch? Just about the only advice 
in Papazian's book is to control the mashing and malting more closely and 
drink out of a stone or wooden jar. Well, IMHO, my mashing is quite closely 
controlled (about a 3 degree F drop in a 158F single-step mash over a 
one-hour period. Mash out at 170F. Sparge at 165F). I assume the malting 
quality is constant since I always buy my grain from the same place. 

Here, then, are some chill haze questions:
1. How does the mashing/sparging process affect the degree of chill haze?
2. I've heard that hazy beer may become clearer when allowed to age at cold 
temperatures for some time. Is this so? (Incidentally, I find the flavor of 
a beer that has been sitting in the fridge for a while (>2 weeks) tastes 
different from one that has just been chilled. The flavors are less 
distinct in the fridge-aged beer. Because of this, I keep a few beers in 
the fridge for unexpected guests, but chill one just before drinking for 
myself. This is a good reason to call before dropping by. Anyone else 
notice reduced flavor in fridge-aged beer?)
3. Do finings (Irish moss during boil, gelatine in secondary) decrease 
chill haze or simply settle out yeast and such? 

Private email is fine but I'm sure I'm not alone in wondering about all 
this.

TIA (I just CAN'T go back to slightly cloudy pale ales. What did I do 
right?)

Richard Nantel
Montreal, Quebec, Canada

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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 12:06:36 +0000 (JST)
From: Brian Schlueter <schluetb at emh.kadena.af.mil>
Subject: World-wide Brew Club List 

Forwarded message:
> From schluetb Mon Feb 21 12:15:27 1994
> Subject: World-wide Brew Club List
> To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 1994 12:15:27 +0000 (JST)
> Content-Type: text
> Content-Length: 347
>
> Hey Everybody,
>
> I'm putting together a World-Wide Home-Brew Club List!
>
> I need your help to make the list complete, just e-mail the following
> information:
>
> 1) Brew Club Name
> 2) Snail Mail Address
> 3) # of members
> 4) Do you want a copy?
>
> The close out date is the end of Mar 94.
>
> E-Mail to the address below:
>
>
> schluetb at emh.kadena.af.mil
>
> Alias: Newbrewer
> 

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Date: 	Sun, 20 Feb 1994 16:01:00 -0500
From: paul.merrifield at onlinesys.com (Paul Merrifield)
Subject: Castlemaine Lager

My favorite beer is Castlemaine's XXXX lager from Australia.
It would be nice to brew some so if anybody has a recipie, please post
it.
Many thanks,
Paul Merrifield London Ont Canada
Paul.Merrifield at onlinesys.com

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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 23:58 CST
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Thanks, I'm Fine

 
 Thanks to all those who have written asking if I am well.  We shipped almost 
 200 mills in January, leaving precious little time to ponder the HBD.  
 Someone seems to have forgotten to tell you folks that Christmas is over.  We 
 were looking forward to a respite in Jan but instead we shipped more than in 
 Dec with no letup in sight.  We have made numerous changes in the program 
 here to increase our output substantially but it still takes a lot of time to 
 keep things moving.
 
 Thanks for your concern and your orders.
 
 js

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Date: 22 Feb 94 01:48:07 EST
From: Steve Daniel <71161.2610 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Gone Fishin'

In HBD 1354, -/-\- John (The Coyote) Wyllie   SLK6P at cc.usu.edu  -\-/- writes:
 
>Ok.  I'll bite.
>    How can you tell how many people are what color on the net?
 
John,
I can't.  But I must admit that my observations over the last 11 years at local
and national competitions in Houston, New Orleans, Dallas, San Antonio, Austin,
Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Boston, Denver, and Kansas City, where I have had the
opportunity to meet/observe literally thousands of home-brewers - only two of
which were black - are pretty convincing to this white-boy.  I'll have to assume
that the ethnic diversity of the folks on the forum is similar to what I've
observed at these events.  I would not be so pretentious as to think the net was
the only place brewers converge (collide?), nor would I claim that blacks were
under-represented unless I had some significant experience to back it up.  If
there are black brewers who want to participate, I'd be willing to bet they are
every bit as intimidated by the demographics of these events as women, and
rightly so.
 
John, if you're through, can I have my hook, line, and sinker back? ;-)
 
Cheers to ya!
 
Steve Daniel <71161.2610 at CompuServe.COM>



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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 94 09:24:58 -0800 (PST)
From: P Brooks <pbrooks at rig.rain.com>
Subject: RE: bitter brew


In HBD #1354 dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE) is overseen to say:

>           Trouble in River City
>           Okay, my last ale came out horribly bitter. I mean, I can 
>           hardly drink it (well--okay--I have to drink it fast). Four 
[snip]
>           and finish. 4)cold winter made me brew it cool ~58-62, with 
>           Canadian Ale yeast (Yeast Lab liquid, forgot the #) and I 
>           had a long, long ferment.
>           
>           Question: Which of the four is the most likely culprit? 

My last couple of 'winter' batches have had a noted increase in their perceived 
biterness - which I've attributed to lack of C02 scrubbing in the primary (my 
winter batches have had very 'invigorous' ferments  at  ~54-60).  Since I know my 
hopping and theoretical utilization/boil volume & gravity have remained 
constant, the lack of scrubbing was the only thing that I could come up with.  
On the plus side, in addition to the additional bitterness, these brews have a 
really clean ester-free flavor.

Now a question for the HBD,  in the above mentioned brews, I have noticed one 
'off-ish' flavor that I haven't found in any of my other batches.  I can only 
describe it as a kind of 'graininess', which is most obvious if I draw some air 
across my tounge immediately after swallowing. If it had a 'feel', it would be 
powdery on my tounge.  What is this. Will it go away? Has it been present in 
the rest of my batches (all ales) and just covered by the fruity esters?  I 
have tasted this taste in somoe of the local micros before, so I'm fairly 
convinced it's not just a 'house problem'. BTW the batches were all grain, 
browns and a pale - and all of them took about 1-1/2 to 2 week to finsish 
primary, and then were racked to secondary for 2 to 3 weeks before bottling.  
If I've left out the key variable - let me know and I'll fill in the the 
picture a little better.

TIA - ciao,
pb
- --
pbrooks at rig.rain.com
Renaissance Information Group

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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 08:35:00 CST
From: Teague_Joel at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: homebrewery construction

A friend of mine and future brewing partner is purchasing a house with a 
detached shop/laundry.  Since he doesn't need the shop and plans to 
move the laundry inside the house he has offered me the job of 
converting the building into a brewery.  No washing clothes, no cutting 
wood, just brewing beer.  I haven't checked the dimensions yet but I'd 
guess maybe 15' x 20'.  There's water and electricity already installed.

I've personally been brewing off and on as a hobby since it's been 
legal and have acquired a fair understanding of the brewing process.  
With the opportunity of having a dedicated building and some 
help in financing I would really like to do this project right the first 
time.  This means setting up to do mashing, yeast culturing, temperature 
controlled fermentation, bottling, kegging, etc.

My request from the wealth of knowledge and experience found among HBD 
contributors is for info/resources/references/lessons learned that will 
help in building the ultimate homebrewery.  You can send direct or 
post.  Anything and everything will, of course, be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Joel


















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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 22:49:30 +0000 (JST)
From: Brian Schlueter <schluetb at emh.kadena.af.mil>
Subject: BrewTip 'O the Day

Clearing problems? Try adding 1/4 - 1/2 Irish Moss

Irish Moss aids in coagulation and drops the proteins to the
trub(bottom). It's carried on to the bottles if not filtered.


Other observations:

What Are You?       IE:Mexican-American, Afro-American,
                        Asian-American German-American,
                        Russian-American, *-American...ect...

The plain truth is were all Americans. Why in the heck are we
trying to seperate now? Heritage we will never forget but enough
is enough!
Could you imagine a beer looking between it's legs to find out
what sex brewed it, male or female?
What color am I bottled in?, green,brown or clear

Why can't people be like beer and get in the wort! :}

E-personals welcome: schluetb at emh.kadena.af.mil

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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 10:02:28 +0500
From: ksweitz at sn618.utica.ge.com (Karl A. Sweitzer)
Subject: Sweetening meads, wine; CAUTION against Potassium Sorbate

There has been some comments about how to make a sweet mead...

One method used for mead and wine is to ferment the must, kill the yeast
with potassium sorbate and then add sugar (or honey) to the desired sweetness.

I have been doing this for wine, but have recently found that some people,
including my wife ( the main reason I make wine ;-) ), get headaches from
the potassium sorbate.  Remember those people who have bad reactions to
sulfates; IT COULD BE YOU!

I asked Dr Fix about this problem... He recomended using a 1 micron filter
(yeast cells are 5-10 microns) to filter out the yeast, then add the sweetner.

Karl Sweitzer

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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 10:35:26 -0500 (EST)
From: VIALEGGIO at ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Brooklyn bitterness


               State University of New York at Stony Brook
                       Stony Brook, NY 11794-5475

                                            Victor Ialeggio
                                            Music
                                            516 632-7239
                                            22-Feb-1994 10:33am EDT
FROM:  VIALEGGIO
TO:    Remote Addressee                     ( _homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com )

Subject: Brooklyn bitterness

Anybody have an educated guess on the IBU of Brooklyn
Brown? 32-35 sound about right? 
vialeggio at ccmail.sunysb.edu

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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 10:10:53 -0600
From: Sean.Rooney at uic.edu (Sean Rooney)
Subject: Huber Bock

Somebody posted a while back about Huber beer as a source for bottles..
They said the beer was at best drinkable.  Obviously they didn't try Huber
Bock.  It's the same price (about $6 or $7 per case plus 1.20 bottle
deposit) and is a very good German Bock.  Rhinelander Bock is the same
beer.  I wouldn't pour the regular Huber or Rhinelander lagers down the
drain, it would be cruel to the drain,  but the Bock is excellent.  I don't
know how they can sell it so cheap.  Furthermore, the case boxes are made
to be reusable and are quite sturdy.  This is the best beer deal around.
Sometimes the boxes aren't correctly labelled and you have to look inside
at the bottle labels.


Sean Rooney
University of Illinois at Chicago
Department of Genetics
U33388 at uicvm.uic.edu



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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 10:27:57 -0800 (CST)
From: Lee Bertagnolli <bertagno at eagle.sangamon.edu>
Subject: Capital City Bar & Grill


This is a new brewpub.  They serve four styles of beer:  Pilsner, Pale Ale,
Australian Ale, and a seasonal (which currently is a failed stout that they 
call "Winter Ale"). All the beers are relatively sweet with full body.  The
brewers are apparently somewhat adverse to using much hops.  The Pale Ale
has a strange after-taste with the sensation on the roof of your mouth.
The brewery is glass-enclosed, so observation is possible.  I am told that
if you catch them in the act, the brewers will happily give you a tour.

If you should visit Springfield, the brewpub is located in Vinegar Hill Mall,
on west Cook Street, just south of the state capitol complex.  There are two
other bars in the Mall, and it is my understanding that they will also be
serving the brewpub's beer on tap (as the mall and all the bars are owned by
the same guy).

- --
*****************************************************************************
*  Lee Bertagnolli                                   bertagno at sangamon.edu  *
*  via Sangamon State University                                            * 
*  Springfield, Illinois                    "Abe's (and Bart's) Home Town"  *
*****************************************************************************

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Date: 22 Feb 1994 09:23:19 -0700 (MST)
From: "Steven W. Smith" <SMITH_S at gc.maricopa.edu>
Subject: Extract-based cream ale?

  I'd really, truly appreciate it if someone/everyone sent me their recipe and 
techinique for brewing a Cream Ale (had Gennesee once and enjoyed it).  
Thank y'all much.

  Obvious(?) tip O' the day: use the wide (17 1/2 inch) Aluminum foil to 
cover the brew pot instead of trying to balance the lid on the immersion
chiller. 
  "Now I don't care how much the dog sniffs around it" (unpaid testimonial).

  In the interest of brevity, you'll just have to imagine how miffed I am at 
not having a chance to be the Queen of Beer.
  _,_/|
  \o.O;   Steven W. Smith, Programmer/Analyst
 =(___)=  Glendale Community College, Glendale Az. USA
    U     SMITH_S at GC.BITNET
          smith_s at gc.maricopa.edu
          Mah'-ee huv'-erk-raft iz fuhl ov ee'-ulz

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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 09:22:19 PST
From: msharp at Synopsys.COM (Michael Sharp)
Subject: Wanted: Taunton Cider tap

Hi,

Anyone out there know where to find a Taunton Cider tap for 1/2bbl kegs?
(its like nothing I've ever seen before so I think its a brewery
 specific tap)  No, I haven't seen anything like this available from
Fox or other major US equipment suppliers -- thats why I'm posting.

	--Mike


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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 13:03:21 EST
From: epochsys!lconrad at uunet.UU.NET (Laura Conrad)
Subject: homebrewing for the non-technical

This is my contribution to the discussion of women in brewing.  I am
not raising this issue to deny that there are other important issues;
this is the one that seems to me to be most relevant in deciding who
in the beer-drinking public is most likely to learn to brew
successfully.

My impression is that the level of technical knowledge assumed by even
beginning brewing books creates a formidable barrier to beginning
brewing for quite a large fraction of the population.  

Of course, the literate but not technically educated population is
disproportionately female, but by no means exclusively so.

I think if I were writing a "how to brew" book (or better yet, chapter
in a general-purpose cookbook), I would think hard about how to write
the first recipe without using any terminology or equipment not
generally used in cookbooks.  It is certainly possible to make an
extract brew without either a hydrometer or a thermometer.  It would
probably be possible to construct a table which would allow a
thermometer (measuring the boiling temperature of the wort) to
substitute for a hydrometer even for all-grain recipes.

If you think about it, brewing is not technically more complicated
than making candy, mayonnaise, or custard, and is very similar to
baking bread.  I think the people who figured out how to write
cookbooks for the "average" homemaker may have something to teach
writers of beginning brewing texts.

For instance, there are lots of places in a cookbook which most of us
on hbd can translate into "adjust the pH".  The typical cookbook
language for this is "add lemon juice or vinegar".  "The Joy of
Cooking" probably has a table somewhere of acids commonly used in the
kitchen and how to substitute one for another.  I personally like
knowing how this relates to what I learned in chemistry classes about
concentration of hydrogen ions.  However, there is no denying that
good mayonnaise, beer, gingerbread, etc. have all been made by people
who wouldn't know a hydrogen ion if it bit them on the tongue.

			Laura

This isn't rocket science; it's brain surgery! (The Simpsons)
lconrad at world.std.com will work as a return address for longer than
lconrad at epoch.com, but will be read less often, at least during the
work week.



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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 12:48:54 PST
From: Michael.Burgeson at Eng.Sun.COM (Michael Burgeson)
Subject: mashing rye malt

This weekend I mashed some rye malt, and thought I would share my
experiences.

I would like to start by saying, I have used this same system to mash a
grist containing as much as 50% wheat, or 20% flaked oats, with no
problem whatsoever.

I started by grinding the rye malt very fine, figuring that since it is
hulless, there was no reason to grind it course.  I then reset my mill,
and ground the rest of my grains.  I used 3 lbs of rye and 7 lbs of
barley.

Not knowing how much protein is in the rye, i figured a protein rest
would not hurt.  I mashed in and had an initial temp of 115^F.  I use a
RIMS system, so I began to recirculate to bring the temp up to 122^F.
About 30 seconds after I began recirculation, the flow tapered off to a
drizzle.

I have my plumbing configured so I can pump water into the bottom of
the mash tun for mashing in, or in case of a stuck grain bed.  This is
exactly what I did, then I started recirculation again.  Same thing; 30
seconds after I started the pump, the flow slowed to a trickle.  I
tried thinnig the mash, and back-flushing several times, but I couldn't
maintain a flow; even at slow recirculation rates.

This mash was seriously sticky, like Cream of Wheat mixed with
oatmeal.  I finally ended up emptying my mash tun and mashing with a
pot and a insulated box.  After mash-out, i figured that the mash was
thin enough at the higher temp to sparge in my RIMS mash/lauter tun
(slotted copper pipe in a rectangular cooler).  Wrong.

Same story;  thirty seconds after starting the pump, only a trickle.
So, I tried gravity feed.  The runoff was way too turbid.  It was so
cloudy, it looked like I had just mashed in, even after draining off
1.5 gallons.  So, I went back to my cycle of: backflush, add water,
start pump, backflush, add water....    Finally, I got a somewhat clear
runoff, so I began the sparge, which took 3 hours to collect 6
gallons.  Usually, I have to restrict the runoff so it doesn't drain
too fast!

On the top of the grain bed there was about 1.5 inches of fine silt.  I
have seen this silt before during other mashes, but it doesn't usually
exceed 1/4 inch. I think this was the cause of the turbidity.  The
spent grains were very sticky and slimy, and were compacted near the
bottom.

This experience really bummed me out.  I thought "Bob Jones was right.
RIMS systems compact the grain bed too much".  But, the next day I
decided to try it again, so I mashed 10 lbs of barley.  It worked
perfectly.  I really like being able to nail a temperature exactly, and
hold it there indefinately without stirring.  I also really like the
automatic sparging (gravity drain, float switch and a pump adding water
to the top of the grain bed).  The extract is nice also.  I yielded  33
and 32 ppg for the two beers.

I won't ever try mashing rye malt in a RIMS system again.  But I will
continue to mash barley, wheat and oats.

 - --mik


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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 22:28:02 GMT
From: mcb at mcdpxs.phx.mcd.mot.com (Mark Bellefeuille)
Subject: 33 qt enamel on steel pots

I was in an outlet store yesterday. It had 2nd's of enamel on steel pots
all sizes. I bought a 33qt for $17.99. It had a obvious run in the enamel
on the outside of the pot (I think that is why it attained it's 'second'
status.) The brand was 'General (something, something, I can't remember)'
It was a Chicago Cutlery outlet store. (no monetary connection....)
They also had second of a very large steamer the bottom of which had a
spigot attached. To bad it was only about 5" or 6" deep. It looked perfect
for an EasyMasher(tm) type setup or even a false bottom until I saw it 
wasn't a single piece.
Now I've got my second large pot. No more heating sparge water in a 6qt pot! 
Yeah! 

Tasted my 1st all-grain batch. An oatmeal stout of my own recipe. It's not
dark enough; but, it tastes good after 8 days. (couldn't wait for 10-14 days
for my 1st taste :-)
mark
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark C. Bellefeuille                     INTERNET: mcb at phx.mcd.mot.com

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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 17:32:46 EST
From: JHENKE at ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: legal limits to homebrewing

	I understand that legally we're limited to 200 gallons per household.
Who keeps track of this?  What do they do to you if you exceed your allotment?
How do they *know*? (whoever 'they' is; I don't mean to sound paranoid...)
These are all hypothetical questions; my husband and I couldn't possibly drink
200 gallons of anything in a year.

						JJ
						jhenke at ucs.indiana.edu

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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 17:50:55 EST
From: Andrew Patti <patti at ee.rochester.edu>
Subject: Brewpots


I've decided to buy a 6-7 gallon brewpot so I can
go to a full boil. Does anyone know where can I find a good 
source of pots this size? Also, I've noticed that places like
Lechmeres have pots with nice thick bottoms (pretty
expensive), and pots that have bottoms only as thick
and sturdy as the sides (cheaper). My inclination is
to just buy the cheap pot, since boiling liquid is
the only thing it will be used for. Is there any reason
why the sturdier pot would be necessary for brewing?

Andy (patti at ee.rochester.edu)

 

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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 15:58:06 MST
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Draft Bitter/Axial Hopback/MRVS

I absolutely loved Phil Atkinson's article on draft bitter, especially the
following line:

>The sugar will make some people cringe but they don't count.

My sentiments exactly!  I have to ask, though if your mash temperature of
170F is typo, as that is clearly too high for the alpha and beta amylase
enzymes to last very long (30 seconds?).  I understand _if_ it is the
strike water temperature, with the mash ending up somewhere in the 150s F.

**

Richard Dante discusses an axial-pipe hopback:

The only thing I might do differently is to offset the inlet and outlet.  The
loose hops will float, so to ensure the wort flows through them, you might
have your outlet at the top (avoids channelling, similar to the big lautering
arguement) and the inlet at the bottom (WRT gravity).  I can't give you a
guess on a similar design for a cold-break filter.  Try it and see (and of
course let us know).

He goes on to say>

>..................I also bought 1/2" and 1/8" cobalt bit$ do drill my
>half inch hole.  Good thing I went with epoxy cuz the hole I drill
>didn't look to pretty. It took HOURS and I went through almost 4 fully
>charged packs on my 12V Makita. Stainless is definitely TOUGH SHIT to
>drill....

I have heard this before, but I have found SS to be as easy to drill as
anything.  I have gone right through it with standard cheap drill bits.
What's the story here?  Metallurgists speak!  (please).

**

I just tried the new Miller Reserve Velvet Stout.  It is not bad for the
price.  I would say it is as good a stout as the Amber Ale is an amber ale.
In other words, keep your hopes down and it won't disappoint.  It *is*
Miller, after all.

Cheers,
Norm
npyle at n33.stortek.com

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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 94 14:58:00 PST
From: Timothy Sixberry <tsixber at msrapid.kla.com>
Subject: Brewpub Startup?


I have seen this question posted to the net before, but the replies were 
most likely private.  So once more, do any of you out there have info on 
what is involved in setting up a brewpub?  Are there any books, or digests 
that might clarify things a bit.  Replies can be made by private e-mail, and 
thanks in advance. 

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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 15:23:27 -0800
From: pohl at unixg.ubc.ca (Derrick Pohl)
Subject: Easy siphoning

"Andrew C. Winner" <acwinner at wam.umd.edu> writes:

>am I missing some relatively
>easy solution for mouth-bacteria-free siphoning?

Yeah, a very easy one, but one many people don't figure out for a while.
Forget the thumb over the end of the tube bit.  Instead, get a hose clamp,
if you haven't already.  Then fill the racking tube with water from the
tap.  It helps to lower one end as you fill the other.  When it's full (or
at least 2/3 full), clamp the hose shut.  This will hold the water in place
as long as you keep each end up (water will slowly trickle out of an end
pointing down).  Don't worry about bubbles.  Put the racking cane into the
wort, stick the other end into the waiting carboy, and release the clamp.
Siphoning will commence at once, as if by magic.  Actually, I always let
the water flow into a cup, then clamp the hose when the beer starts coming,
and move it over to the carboy.  As long as your water is clean this isn't
really necessary, but for some reason I just don't like fresh tap water to
mix with my brew.

- -----
Derrick Pohl <pohl at unixg.ubc.ca>, Faculty of Graduate Studies
University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C.
Ph. (604) 822-9546    Fax (604) 822-5802



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Date:         Tue, 22 Feb 94 17:23:37 CST
From: Kurt Eaton <ZU02357 at UABDPO.DPO.UAB.EDU>
Subject:      Pelletized hops

Is there any reason or advantage to smashing/breaking up pelletized hops
prior to adding them to the wort?

Thanks,

       Kurt (don't have FAQ file...<g>) Eaton

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Date: 22 Feb 1994 15:52:07 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Various Beginner Topics, HBD Comments

Hello Group,
I've been catching up on the last five digests, I have been out sick with the
Flu. There have been a lot of Frequently Asked Questions popping up. I will try
to provide short answers to many of them.

Bottled Water - Bottled water is usually pasteurized and does not need to be
boiled prior to use. Tap water is always suspect and should be boiled prior to
use. I am sure there are tap water sources out there that are clean, but often
they have low levels of contaminants or high levels of minerals that are better
off eliminated by boiling and cooling.

Malt Extract suggestions - For light bodied ales and lagers, I like Alexanders
Extract from CA. It comes in a 4lb can. I also like Munton and Fison, and
Coopers.

Hot Side Aeration - The goal is to avoid introducing oxygen to the wort while
it is warm or Hot. Charlie Pap.s method of pouring boiling wort into ice water
does allow oxidation. The oxygen in the cold water can react with the hot wort
during mixing. Therefore the wort should be cooled before this aeration can
take place.  The cooler, the better. Oxygen damage is time dependenat so if you
drink your beer fast you may not notice it.
Siphoning the hot wort into the cold water will eliminate the splashing, but
may not eliminate the hot wort contact of oxygenated water. There are no
standards for determining how much wort will be oxidized at what temperature.
If you notice a cardboard taste in your beers use the basic guideline to try
and reduce the contact time of oxygen to your wort. If you are not noticing a
problem then don't bust a gut trying to change your process.

But, I read one guy was adding his hot wort to the fermenter and then putting
the fermenter in an ice bath. (No! Wrong, Boot to the Head!)
***
I have been thinking that we could use a Mashing FAQ. All of these people just
getting started with All-Grain or Partial Mash could certainly use some basic
info on what works and why. I suppose I am volunteering to compile it. First I
think we need to make a good cut and the contents. I was thinking:
1. Mashing Techniques - Cooler Method, Zepap, Kettle Mashing/EasyMash(tm),
Decoction. Going over the basics.
2. What the Mash does, How it does it. 
3. The differences in Mashing for Ales and Lagers.
It should be oriented to the first time masher, the intermediate and advanced
stuff forms the core of the HBD.
***
Speaking of that, I think the HBD should include Brewpub requests, local
brewing contest announcments, recipes, as well as the day to day discussion of
techniques and brewing theory.  I think we shouldn't worry about bandwidth when
replying to peoples questions if the questions are responsible. I have learned
a lot of good stuff that way. One thing we can all do to decrease the noise is
to NOT respond to inflammatory posts. Just ignore them and they will go away.
If a person persists, then flame away on email. 

John Palmer palmer#d#john at ssdgwy.mdc.com

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Date: 22 Feb 1994 17:32:00 -0600 (CST)
From: "Michael D. Hansen (708) 938-3184" <HANSEN.MICHAEL at igate.abbott.com>
Subject: All-grain batch sizes

Hello all you brewmeisters!

A number of people have expressed interest in all-grain brewing but are 
concerned about the size of their equipment (no laughing out there, I'm talking 
beer equipment!). I suggest cutting the recipe to a smaller size that will fit 
comfortably in your brewpot. I have a 3 gallon carboy and a 20 qt SS brewpot 
that should hold a 3 gallon version of a larger recipe (220 gallons of 
rhinoceros stout will NOT fit in my brewpot). I'm going to give it a try. 
Comments?

TIA and brew on my friends!
Mike Hansen   (HANSENMD at RANDB.ABBOTT.COM)

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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 18:13:38 -0600 (CST)
From: "J. Andrew Patrick" <andnator at Mercury.mcs.com>
Subject: Homebrewing BBSs, Austin Brewpubs

I've been on the brewpub road for a while, unable to post, and
a couple of items have accumulated in the meantine:
- ---------------------------------------------------
HOMEBREWING BBSs:
I founded the Home Brew University BBS Network in Houston in October
of 1992. When I moved to Chicago last July, I entrusted the Houston
node (remaned the Southwest Campus) to my good friend and fellow
brewer, Steve Moore, who also happens to be organizing the Dixie Cup
Competition in Houston this year (this is the 2nd largest homebrew
competition in the world, second only to the AHA Nationals). The Houston
BBS was given credit by the Houston Press for helping to legalize
brewpubs in Texas last year.

The Midwestern Campus of HBU beagn operation in the Chicago area upon
my arrrival here last July.  On January 1st of this year, I sent out
the first issue of the HBU Electronic Newsletter, which has been very
well received.

During its first 1.5 years of opeartion, the HBU BBS network has
received over 15,000 calls from approximately 3,000 users.  Calls
have come in from virtually every state, as well as Canada, Germany,
and Italy.  In short, there is obviously plenty of demand for BBS
systems dedicated exclusively to homebrewing and beer appreciation.
Anyone interested in starting one should feel free to contact me for
advice, encouragement, and FILES!

Please note that no charges are made for calls to HBU, nor is there
a charge for the "E-News" subscriptions.
- ----------------------------------------
WATERLOO BREWING CO:
In HBD #1346, Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcla.fc.hp.com> writes:
>On another subject, I was in Austin last week and picked up a few
>tidbits.  I met Steve Anderson, owner of Waterloo brewing.  He's doing
>well; in fact, he's selling so much beer he risks running out!  The
>latest specialty batch, Guytown IPA, is superb -- aggressive hop
>bitterness, but still well balanced.

I also visited the Waterloo Brewpub in Austin recently, and found
all four of their beers to be outstanding.  The current lineup includes
a light ale called Clares Clara, a Bitter, the IPA that Jeff mentioned,
and an excellent porter with the intriguing name of "O Henry Porter".
The IPA was my favorite as well (although they said they had just toned
the hops a bit in the most recent version - I tried both versions. I liked
the original, hoppier one better, but they were both excellent.  The new
one is not wimpy in terms of hop character at all).  There was also an
experimental raspberry beer (which the brewmaster said was basically the
Bitter with some raspberry extract added).  I found it to be excellent -
a very powerful raspberry aroma, but the raspberry flavor in the palate
was not so overwhelming as to drown out the excellent fruity maltiness
of the underlying bitter.

The owner of the Waterloo Brewpub is Bill Forrester, Jr, who also owns
Austin's best beer bar, The Dog & Duck, which is just up Guadalupe St
a few blocks (Waterloo is at 4th and Guadalupe, The Dog & Duck is at 17th
and Guadalupe).  The Steve Anderson that Jeff refers to is the head brewer,
who was trained at the Seibel Institute in Chicago, and is one hell of a
good brewer, based upon the 5 brewpub beers mentioned above.

For an excellent detailed review of the Waterloo Brewpub, see the brand new
issue of the Southwest Brewing News, which is available at quality beer bars
and homebrew supply shops throughout the Southwest.

BTW, Austin's second brewpub, The Bitter End, recently opened, and I
attended a special Sneak Preview party there as well.  This is one of the
yuppiest/trendiest brewpubs I have ever encountered. Unfortunatley, the
one beer they had available for tasting was extremely astringent.  I was
unable to drink an entire glass of it.  But the food was excellent, and
they are brand new, so I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Austin brewpub veterans (Waterloo has been open for 2 months now!) pointed
out to me that Waterloo's beers were not that great when they first opened
their doors.  Point well taken.

|Sysop         |         Andrew Patrick          |       Founder|
|Home Brew Univ| AHA/HWBTA Recognized Beer Judge |Home Brew Univ|
|Midwest BBS   |  SW Brewing News Correspondent  | Southwest BBS|
|(708)705-7263 |Internet:andnator at genesis.mcs.com| (713)923-6418|



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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 1994 16:35:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Peter Maxwell <peterm at aoraki.dtc.hp.com>
Subject: can an infection give "haze"?

I have a problem with my latest batch, which is bottle conditioning at the
moment.  Using identical techniques (extract-based with a starter, using
Wyeast 1968) as many successful previous brews, I notice that the bottles
appear to have a "super haze" even at 68 degrees.  In fact, it looks like a
suspension of something extremely fine which won't settle.  It even appears
to have "substance" in that when I gently rock a bottle I can see this stuff
moving inside.  It's been two weeks since bottling and the stuff is as thick
as ever.

Can an infection produce something like this?  This is going to look
terrible when I pour it and I'm loath to toss it.  I tasted it when it was
still undercarbonated and it tasted a bit strange, but it was a new recipe
so I can't be sure if it's really off.

	Peter

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1356, 02/23/94