FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  creme soda / BrewTek (Rob Skinner)
  What does the AHA do? (Michel Vandenplas)
  potatoes in beer (COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L)
  blow off tubes ("Dana S. Cummings")
  bottlecap boil (btalk)
  holes in glass (btalk)
  negative pressure (Tom Lyons)
  OG of Starter Wort (Patrick Weix)
  Re: Cold Hopping (Jim Busch)
  This is a big world (KLAY)
   (Steve_Boylan.NOTES.LOTUS)
  Red Ale ("Kevin D. Reid")
  Blow-Off Tubes (WKODAMA)
   (Steve_Boylan.NOTES.LOTUS)
  Berliner W./Brewpubs/Spruce ("Stephen Schember")
  Extract IPA (Jonathan G Knight)
  Micro-Brewery license info wanted (Troy Downing)
  Using Hop Pellets / Carboy Vaccuums (npyle)
  Bloow-off Tubes Re-visited (Jack St Clair)
  CREAM SODA (Jack Schmidling)
  Contaminate, pasteurize, potatos, and Gott (Ulick Stafford)
  Sucking bleach into your brew (or, Physics sucks!!)... (Steven Tollefsrud)
  freezing cracked barley (RONALD DWELLE)
  Re: Franziskaner yeast cultivation (not) (Martin Heinz)
  Sucking bleach into your brew (or, Physics sucks!!)... (Steven Tollefsrud)
  DeadWyeast/TooMuchTrub/BleachConcentr/Blowoff/HopBags/NoonanHopRate (korz)
  Blowoff Vacuum/HB Shelflife/Take a Bow (korz)
  Long Lived Wyeast ("Manning Martin MP")
  Brew Pub Equipment Sources? (Scot Duckrow)
  Pumps (fudgemstr)
  homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com ("Jason P. Ramsay")
  Maple in brewing (Henry E Kilpatrick)
  WYEAST #3068 works! (Frank Longmore)
  Rhizome sources ??? (Marc L. Goldfarb)
  Missing HBD's and Bicycle Beer (tm) (JEBURNS)


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For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed,  2 Mar 94 18:33:00 -0800
From: rob.skinner at kandy.com (Rob Skinner)
Subject: creme soda / BrewTek


>The problem is the taste of the soda - it has a very heavy yeast taste
>that makes the cream soda mostly undrinkable.  I think my rootbeer
>comes out OK because it has a much more robust flavor which hides the
>yeast overtones.

	There is a gadget that is available at many homebrew shops called 
	"The Carbonator."  It retails for just under ten bucks.  It is 
	basically a quick disconnect fitting, the same size as is found on 
	Cornelius kegs, that screws onto the top of a two liter P.E.T. bottle.
    The soda is force carbonated in the PET bottle.
    
	I've used my Carbonator	for two batches of root beer and it's worked
	well.  The only drawback is that it is only possible to do one bottle
	at a time.  I'm considering turning to yeast so I can have a larger 
	supply of soda on hand.
	
	

>I've been trying to reach the Brewer's Resource in Woodland Hills, CA
>without success.  Does anyone know if they're out of business now.  I
>just got a catal about 4 weeks ago, and can't figure out what happened.

  Brewer's Resource is alive and well.  Towards the end of February, they
  were moving to a new location.  By the time you read this, they should 
  be back in business.
  
  Rob Skinner <rob.skinner at kandy.com>
  

 .. 
- -- MR/2 1.98x NR

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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 13:29 GMT+200
From: Michel Vandenplas <mvdp at maties.sun.ac.za>
Subject: What does the AHA do?                                             

Hi All,

We've recently started a homebrew club covering the Cape
Town area, as far as I know this is the first club of it's
kind in South Africa. The steady growth of the club ,
pretentiously called the `Amateur Brewing Association', far
exceeded my expectations. We have also been offered a one-
off slot on national radio and are hoping that other clubs
will start in other centers of the country as a consequence
of this. Maybe it helps to promote homebrewing as a national
pass-time, high aspirations :-)

I'm hoping that someone will be able to give me information
on the AHA. While I realize that the association holds
national and regional(?) competitions in America and
publishes a brewing magazine, what are its other aims and
how do homebrewers perceive the association's influence on
homebrewing in America? Also, any background on the history
of the AHA would be appreciated.

Lastly, does anyone have their address and fax number in
Boulder, Colorado.

Many thanks,

Michel


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Date: Thu, 03 Mar 1994 08:00:59 -0500 (EST)
From: COCKERHAM_SANDRA_L at Lilly.com
Subject: potatoes in beer

I haven't made a potato beer, but I had a *great* Irish Potato Stout at
the Bison Brewpub in Berkeley last year. 
I would imagine darker beers would be best for this adjunct.
Can't be any worse than rice.   :)
Best O' Luck.

Sandy C.

From: COCKERHAM SANDRA L            (MCVAX0::RX31852)

To:   VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE            (IN::"homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com")

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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 08:03:22 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dana S. Cummings" <dcumming at moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: blow off tubes

I must take exception to Jack St Clair`s assertion that there is no 
danger of sanitizing solution being sucked into your brew.  You must be 
sure that your brew is at room temperature when you rack to the carboy or 
the resulting cooling BEFORE the yeast becomes active could suck 
sanitizer in.  Once fermentation has begun, I concur w/ JSC, there is no 
danger of bleaching your brew.



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Date: Thu, 03 Mar 94 08:40:13 EST
From: btalk at aol.com
Subject: bottlecap boil

Papazians book does say to boil bottlecaps.(I should have written page # for
reference). Its in a list that 'recaps' <ahem>
steps in bottling.
Bob Talkiewicz <btalk at aol.com>

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Date: Thu, 03 Mar 94 08:52:48 EST
From: btalk at aol.com
Subject: holes in glass

I had heard of making a ring of putty or clay and poring molten lead (i
think) into it. This was supposed to knock out a hole the inside diameter of
the putty ring. No personal experience...
Bob Talkiewicz<btalk at aol.com>

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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 05:58:02 -0800 (PST)
From: tlyons at netcom.com (Tom Lyons)
Subject: negative pressure

 Jack St Clair <Jack_St_Clair at ccm.hf.intel.com> writes:


> Secondly, there is never a moment during the
> fermentation process when a vacuum is created to provide a
> 'sucking' action.  There is always a positive pressure in the
> carboy, that's why we see bubbles coming out.



Well, that's probably true during fermentation.  However, I
often seen a negative pressure through a blowoff tube or a
regular bubble lock before fermentation begins.  Once co2
production begins, a positive airflow is established.  I have
always theorized that this is caused by temperature differences,
but would love to hear other possible explanations.

Yes, I have seen enough negative pressure to draw liquid up
through a blow-off tube, but I've never seen enough to draw it
all the way up into the carboy.  Yet.


Tom Lyons - Central Florida
tlyons at netcom.com



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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 06:01:16 -0800 (PST)
From: weix at netcom.com (Patrick Weix)
Subject: OG of Starter Wort


> From: Keith MacNeal  01-Mar-1994 1400 <macneal at pate.enet.dec.com>
> Subject: Pitching rates for Scotch Ales

>   Since almost 20% of the 
> batch size will be the starter, it makes sense to me that the starter gravity
> should be close to the wort gravity.  Now this flies in the face of 
> conventional wisdom of low gravity (1.020) starters.  Can anybody provide an 
> insight to this?
> 

Actually it is the old wisdom that recommends a 1.020 starter wort.
Conventional wisdom (i.e. George Fix and others) recommend that the
starter wort be as close to your brew as possible. I usually fly by
the seat of my pants, so I keep a bunch of sterile 1.040 hopped wort
around for starters. The reason for using hopped wort is the added
protection against infection provided by the hops.
- -- 
  "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away."
 					Tom Waits
 /------------------------------------------------------------\
 | Patrick Weix                        weix at netcom.com        |
 | UT Southwestern Medical Center      weix at swmed.utexas.edu  |
 | 5323 Harry Hines Blvd               tel: (214) 648-5050    |
 | Dallas, TX 75235                    fax: (214) 648-5453    |
 \------------------------------------------------------------/

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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 09:15:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Cold Hopping

> From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
> Subject: COLD HOPPING
> 
>  >In HBD 1355, Domenick Venezia asked:
>  
>  >My last all-grain batch, an ESB dry hopped 4 days with 1oz/5gal Kent
>  >Goldings, has a grassy haylike flavor tone....
>  
  I don't expect universal agreement with my views but that flavor is precisely 
>  why I gave up on "dry hopping" as a bad idea.  It is my opinion that this is 
>  the result of what should actually be called COLD hopping.
>  
>  That herbal, grassy flavor results from not cooking the hops.  It is 
>  eliminated in the boil and if added while the wort is hot enough to cook it 
>  off.
>  
>  I won't argue with those who like the taste but to suggest that it is some 
>  exotic problem created by blue smoke and mirrors is misleading to say the 
>  least.
>  

Suprise, yet another thing that Jack and I disagree on!  The aroma profile
of EKGs are often described as "earthy" or sometimes "grassy".  Its the 
way the hop is.  Dry hopping of ales is about the best method of increasing
hop aroma, as can be demonstrated by drinking a Anchor Liberty, or one of
my ales.  My latest Styrian Goldings batch was dryhopped with SG, and cask 
hopped with EKGs, and the results were absolutely fantastic.  Too bad it 
kicked last nite.  For my money, if you want hop aromatics above what a 
kettle can deliver, you gotta dry hop.  BTW, the initial harshness of some
cask hopping seems to blend and diminish over time (if you can wait!).

Good brewing,

Jim Busch

DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!


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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 9:16:03 -0500 (EST)
From: KLAY at ocean.aoml.erl.gov
Subject: This is a big world

	Just a suggestion: with all the requests for mail order outlets,
supply stores, general happening info, etc. etc., it seems a point of
origin would be helpful, ie. WHERE ARE YOU. Sorry to waste bandwidth, but..
	Jonathan	KLAY at ocean.aoml.erl.gov		Miami

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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 09:27:29 EST
From: Steve_Boylan.NOTES.LOTUS at CRD.lotus.com
Subject: 

In HOMEBREW Digest #1362, Mark Bunster writes:

> Finally, I'm sending off my entries to a contest--lots of people noted that
> Beers Across Am is sent via RPS--does anyone know the full name and which
> larger packaging chains service via RPS? Or is there a 1800 #? Failing that,
> I can just put "yeast cultures" on the UPS tag, right?

The full name is "Roadway Package System", and the telephone number is 
1-800-762-3725.  Just call that number to arrange for a package to be picked up 
for delivery anywhere in the country.

However, according to their operator, they do not ship alcoholic beverages. 
(?????)

Never been a customer, no opinion on the subject, just answering the question.  
No warranty expressed or implied.  Contents may settle during shipment.  Your 
mileage may vary.  Und so weite.

				- - Steve

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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 06:59:30 -0700 (MST)
From: "Kevin D. Reid" <cc000ai at chicoma.lanl.gov>
Subject: Red Ale


Does anybody have a good recipe for a Red Ale type beer?

If you do, could you please forward it to me at:

cc000ai at chicoma.lanl.gov

Thanks,
Kevin




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Date: Thu, 03 Mar 1994 09:29:15 -0500
From: WKODAMA at aba.com
Subject:  Blow-Off Tubes

Jack St.Clair wrote in #1363:

> Secondly, there is never a moment during the fermentation
> process when a vacuum is created to provide a  'sucking'
> action.  There is always a positive pressure in the carboy,

There is one (mostly hypothetical) situation to take note of,
however.  If one attaches the blow off tube while the wort is
still hot, the cooling of the wort can create a reverse pressure
where the liquid at the other end of the tube may get sucked back
towards the fermenter.  Of course, if the brew is this hot then
one shouldn't have pitched yeast and attached the blow off
anyway.

Wesman


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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 09:48:11 EST
From: Steve_Boylan.NOTES.LOTUS at CRD.lotus.com
Subject: 

In HOMEBREW Digest #1362, Mark Bunster writes:

> Finally, I'm sending off my entries to a contest--lots of people noted that
> Beers Across Am is sent via RPS--does anyone know the full name and which
> larger packaging chains service via RPS? Or is there a 1800 #? Failing that,
> I can just put "yeast cultures" on the UPS tag, right?

The full name is "Roadway Package System", and the telephone number is 
1-800-762-3725.  Just call that number to arrange for a package to be picked up 
for delivery anywhere in the country.

However, according to their operator, they do not ship alcoholic beverages. 
(?????)

Never been a customer, no opinion on the subject, just answering the question.  
No warranty expressed or implied.  Contents may settle during shipment.  Your 
mileage may vary.  Und so weite.

				- - Steve

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Date: 3 Mar 1994 10:40:31 -0500
From: "Stephen Schember" <Stephen_Schember at terc.edu>
Subject: Berliner W./Brewpubs/Spruce

                      Subject:                              Time:  10:14 AM
  OFFICE MEMO         Berliner W./Brewpubs/Spruce_          Date:  3/3/94
I had a rare treat the other day; real Berliner Weise. It was awesome, very tart
and gueze like. I've been looking for this beer style in States for a few years
and this is the first time I've found it. If you are in the Boston
Metro area any time soon stop in at the Wursthaus in Harvard Square and have one
but be forwarned; it has a very unusual taste and will set you back $4.75 a
bottle (but this includes rasberry syrup :^) . In reference to the number of
requests for brew pubs in various parts of the states, there is a commercially
available guide to these: "On Tap: The Guide to U.S. Brewpubs" , which has gone
through at least two editions.
If anybody in the Boston area would like a free bottle of Spruce extract 
come and get it. I made a nasty spruce beer last Xmass with it and want to trash
it or give it away.
 -Steve
stephen_schember at terc.edu



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Date: Thu, 03 Mar 1994 09:58:42 -0500 (cdt)
From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: Extract IPA


Collin Ames asks about extract IPA recipes.

I've made several, roughly like this:

6 lbs. light malt extract syrup (I like William's English Light or EDME)
1 lb. demerara or brown sugar
1/2-3/4 lb. medium crystal, steeped
10-12 HBU's Fuggles or Northern Brewer, 60 min.
1/2 oz. Fuggles, Willamette or Goldings, added at end & steeped w/heat off 20 
min. or so
Liquid yeast culture from starter soln., I prefer Wyeast 1098 "British"
4 oz. corn sugar to prime.

If you like oak chips, they add an interesting flavor (although purportedly 
not "correct" for the "style," so don't do it if you want to send your beer 
to a competition) - I toast a half cup or so in a 350 deg. oven on a cookie 
sheet for 20 min. and add them to the secondary (dry-oaking?).

Go for it, Collin.  Pale Ales are easy to make from extract and delightful to 
drink.  Bottoms up!

Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa

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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 11:14:02 EST
From: downing at GRAPHICS.CS.NYU.EDU (Troy Downing)
Subject: Micro-Brewery license info wanted

Some friends and I are interested in starting a small brewery/pub
in Park Slope, Brooklyn. Can someone point me in the right direction
for acquiring information on regulations/licensing/etc. on starting
a Micro brewery in New York?

Thanks!

+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Troy Downing                                       (212) 998-5753 (voice) |
| New York University                                (212) 995-4320 (FAX)   |
| 34 Stuyvesant Street, 3rd Floor                                           |
| New York, NY 10003                                 downing at cs.nyu.edu     |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 9:44:08 MST
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: Using Hop Pellets / Carboy Vaccuums

Paul Beard mentions problems with hop pellets.  I've gone through the same
problems myself.  Using hop cones (whole hops) will virtually eliminate this
problem, especially if you use them in hop bags.  The problem is that not all
varieties come whole.  Do you cool your hot wort before dumping it into the
fermenter?  If so, you can whirlpool the wort and let it settle while its
cooling.  Another thing that works fine is to just remove your strainer and
let everything into the fermenter.  You can then rack it to another fermenter
(leaving the hops behind) when it all settles out.  If you do this, you'll
have to rack it before fermentation gets active - this will stir everything
up for sure.  Some people do this as a matter of course to get the wort off
the cold break material.

Paul then writes:
>Answers can be e-mailed if this seems too newbie-ish for public discussion.

This type of question is perfect for this forum, IMHO.  If you can't discuss
methods to ease the brewing process, then the HBD isn't worth very much, now
is it?

**

Jack St. Clair makes claims about blow-off tubes:

>     ...................Secondly, there is never a moment during the
>     fermentation process when a vacuum is created to provide a
>     'sucking' action.  There is always a positive pressure in the
>     carboy, that's why we see bubbles coming out.

Fermentation won't create a vaccuum but temperature differences between the
inside and outside of the carboy can.  The only time I see this as a problem
is before primary fermentation gets going.  The wort can easily be a few
degrees hotter than the outside air and as it cools it sucks in some air (or
bleach water, as the case may be).  Once fermentation begins, Jack is correct
and you have no worries, mate.  I suggest using an "S" type airlock until
fermentation gets going (this type of airlock will allow gas to bubble
through in either direction, without any liquid getting through).

Good Luck,
Norm

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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 09:05:03 PST
From: Jack St Clair <Jack_St_Clair at ccm.hf.intel.com>
Subject: Bloow-off Tubes Re-visited


Text item: Text_1

     Well, wouldn't you know it, I blew it on the blow-off bit the other 
     day.  I said that there is never a time when a vacuum is formed in 
     the carboy and have been reminded that this is not the case.  
     
     Dick Foehringer of "The Brewmeister" homebrew supply shop in Folsom 
     CA, reminded me that this is not always true.  When the yeast is 
     pitched while the wort is still above room temperature and the 
     carboy neck is stopped, a vacuum can be formed sufficient enough to 
     suck the contents of the airlock or, worse yet, the contents of the 
     chlorine filled bucket back into the carboy.
     
     Thanks Dick, I'll certainly watch that from here on.  And to the 
     rest of the loyal HBDers, please excuse my faux pas.
     
     Jack St.Clair
     Portland, Oregon
     Jack_St_Clair at ccm.co.intel.com

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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 10:57 CST
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: CREAM SODA

 
 >From: digem at wrangler.lanl.gov (David G. Modl)
 
 >I have a problem with my homemade cream soda that, maybe, someone can
 help me with.  I make the soda using extract/concentrates, table sugar,
 and champagne yeast. 
 
 As the essence of cream soda is vanilla, you might try a little creative 
 formualting on your own.   Vanilla, sugar and a dash of lemon is all you 
 really need.  I made a sort of ginger cream soda that is really nice.
 
 
 Here is the process for one gallon from the script of my video.  Just use 
 more vanilla and less ginger for cream soda.....
 
 
           ACT 2        GINGER ALE
 
 
 SCENE  1  GINGER ALE  GRAPHIC
 
 OUR NEXT PROJECT IS TO MAKE GINGER ALE.  THE PROCESS IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS 
 ROOT BEER EXCEPT THAT WE ARE GOING TO MAKE OUR OWN GINGER ROOT EXTRACT.
 
 
 SCENE 2   GINGER ROOT
 
 PICK OUT A NICE FRESH LOOKING PIECE OF GINGER ROOT AT THE SUPER MARKET. OUR 
 ONE GALLON RECIPE CALLS FOR TWO OUNCES OF GINGER. / THAT'S A PIECE ABOUT THE 
 SIZE OF AN EGG. /
 
 
 SCENE 3  SLICING
 
 SLICE THE TWO OUNCE PIECE INTO THIN SECTIONS. /
 
 SCENE 4  ADD TO BOILING WATER
 
 ADD THE SLICED GINGER TO.. TWO CUPS OF BOILING WATER. /  SIMMER THIS ON LOW 
 HEAT FOR 20 MINUTES. /
 
 
 SCENE 5   BLENDER
 
 BLEND THE BOILED GINGER ON HIGH FOR ABOUT ONE MINUTE
 
 SCENE 6   STRAIN INTO BOILING WATER
 
 BRING TO A BOIL, ONE GALLON OF WATER WITH TWO CUPS OF SUGAR. /  POUR THE 
 BLENDED GINGER THROUGH A STRAINER, INTO THE SUGAR WATER.  /
 
 WITH A SOUP LADLE, POUR A FEW CUPS OF THE HOT BREW THROUGH THE PULP TO 
 EXTRACT A BIT MORE OF THE GINGER FLAVOR.  THEN LET THE BREW COOL DOWN TO ROOM 
 TEMPERATURE AND DISCARD THE GINGER PULP.
 
 
 SCENE 7   VANILLA
 
 WHEN COOL, ADD ONE TABLESPOON OF VANILLA EXTRACT AND 1/8 TEASPOON OF YEAST. /
 
 THEN BOTTLE AND AGE YOUR GINGER ALE, JUST LIKE THE ROOT BEER.
 
 js
 
 
 
 

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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 12:10:30 EST
From: ulick at debussy.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Contaminate, pasteurize, potatos, and Gott

I intend to contaminate and pasteurize my Wit.  For lactobacillus type
critters I will remove some of the beer and put it in Thermos flask.  Add
a little grain and hold for an hour at 125-130 (as per Noonan in a recent
BT or Zymurgy, or was it Miller?).  At that stage assume most critters 
except thermophilic lactobacillus are dead and contaminate wort with it.
After a day or two put in my brewpot, heat to 170, chuck in the wort chiller,
chill and bottle with wort and fresh yeast.  Comments or this suicidal 
venture :-)?

For a potato pilsener one might follow an oatmeal or flaked barley type
recipe, like the North German pilsener recipie in Miller.  Boil 5 times
the amount of potatoes as adjunct (potatoes are 80% water), mash fairly
well and add to saccarification rest.  How it would turn out, I don't know,
but I wouldn't exceed 20% of fermentables as potato.

Dominick Venezia recounts Gott experience.  I have a 7 gallon, and found
that the tap is easily removed and corked and that 1/4" copper fits inside
nicely, as he did.  I have considered the false bottom question - even
to the extent of manufacture.   Perhaps a simple solution would be a Phil
bottom connected to 1/4" copper.  I considered getting  a sheet of 1/8" 
plastic.  Cutting out an exact circle to fit, cut it into slices, perhaps
1/2 - 1" wide and glue them backon to 2 triangular shaped feet, such that
one side has the bottom just over the tap hole, with the other end resting
on the far side with a 1/32-1/16" gap between each piece (or the width of your
cutting blade).  Then brew with the back end sitting on a piece of strofoam.
Someday I'll do it and report, but in the meantime my copper manifold is OK.
__________________________________________________________________________
 'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ...  | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.  
    Pabst Blue Ribbon!'               | Notre Dame IN 46556
                                      |    ulick at darwin.cc.nd.edu   


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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 18:39:06 +0100
From: vlsisj!fleurie!steve_t at uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com (Steven Tollefsrud)
Subject: Sucking bleach into your brew (or, Physics sucks!!)...


Jack St Clair wrote:
> "there is never a moment during the fermentation process when
> a vacuum is created to provide a 'sucking' action.  There is
> always a positive pressure in the carboy, that's why we
> see bubbles coming out."

Careful!!

This is only correct assuming:

A. The wort temperature is stabile. 

B. The yeasties have started doing their CO2 thang.

If the temperature of the wort and/or the headspace decreases,
the volume of both will decrease. This volume will be displaced
by whatever solution your blowoff-tube is stuck in. Depending on
how much the temperature decreases, how long the blowoff tube is,
and the rate at which CO2 is flowing out of the system, it is
quite possible to suck sterilant into your precious wort.

If you cooled your wort down to, say, 70 degrees, pitched a yeast
starter, sealed the fermenter with a blowoff tube stuck in chlorine,
and your room temperature is 65 degrees, you're going to have a
contraction of gas in the headspace when it all settles out at
65 degrees. Unless your yeast starter is really active and the
lag time before significant CO2 production is not longer than this
temperature drop, you could conceivably suck all of your sterilant
into your wort AND whatever wild thangs which are floating in the
air that gets sucked in after it. 

Of course, this is only the pessimistic, doomsday, worst case
scenerio. You could always just relax, don't worry, and have a homebrew.

So how do you safely isolate your wort from air and nasties?

BONG!

(hooka, waterpipe)

Go to your neighborhood illegal drug industry accesories supply store
(your local headshop --- do they still exist back home?) and look at
the principle behind marijuana bongs (this is neither sanctioning nor
indicting drug use so don't bother starting another "drug thread", pro
or con). 

Traditionally, these systems consist of a vessel open at one end in
which water can be added. There is a tube entering the side of this
vessel, the internal end being submerged in water (or whatever) and the
external side being the air (or whatever) input. By producing a vacuum
on the open end of the vessel, the air will draw into the liquid via
the tube, percolate through the water, and to the source of the vacuum.

(brilliantly clever ascii illustration...)

	vacuum source
		^
		|
		|
		air flow
		|
	|		|
	|		|
	|		|   // <--tube air input
	|___OOO_O_O_____|  //
	|    oo o       | //
	|     o o	|//
	|      o        //
	|       o      //
	| liquid   o  //|
	|           oo  |
	|_______________|


Now, don't buy anything at the headshop. Go home and build your own
nifty airlock using a baby food jar with two holes in the top, one
for the input tube and one for the output tube (the one going to your
fermenter). Fill the jar with sterilant (vodka works just as well as
bleach), put the input tube under the surface of the sterilant, and
make sure the output tube is above the surface of the sterilant.
Voila...

	   ||    ||	
	   ||	 ||
input tube ||	 || <-- tube to fermenter
	___||____||____
	[__||____||___]
	 | ||    ||  |
	 |_||__o_____|
	 | ||oo      |
	 | ||oO  o   |
	 |  o        |
	 |   o       |
	 | GERBERS tm|
	 |___________|


Now you can really relax and have a homebrew (or whatever).

Steve Tollefsrud
Valbonne, France

e-mail: steve_t at fleurie.compass.fr


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Date: Wed, 02 Mar 94 22:34:22 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: freezing cracked barley


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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 11:58:59 -0600 (CST)
From: Martin Heinz <heinz at fireant.ma.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Franziskaner yeast cultivation (not) 


> : From: "Steven W. Smith" <SMITH_S at gc.maricopa.edu>
> : Subject: Franziskaner hefe-weisse
> 
> : it's got a _nice_ layer of yeast.
> :   Has anyone happily made a starter of the tasty crud from this beer? 
> : It is a  lager, yes?  
> 
 The Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse yeast is ale yeast, however there is most 
 likely lager yeast added at bottling,which is the one at the bottom 
 most likely.
 Additionally, there is a fat chance of the yeast being dead anyway --
 due to pasteurization before shipment.
 So even if you get a starter from a bottle, it's not going to be
 the "right" yeast. 
 
 Martin Heinz
 heinz at math.utexas.edu
 
 



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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 20:13:03 +0100
From: vlsisj!fleurie!steve_t at uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com (Steven Tollefsrud)
Subject: Sucking bleach into your brew (or, Physics sucks!!)...



Jack St Clair wrote:
> "there is never a moment during the fermentation process when
> a vacuum is created to provide a 'sucking' action.  There is
> always a positive pressure in the carboy, that's why we
> see bubbles coming out."

Careful!!

This is only correct assuming:

A. The wort temperature is stabile. 

B. The yeasties have started doing their CO2 thang.

If the temperature of the wort and/or the headspace decreases,
the volume of both will decrease. This volume will be displaced
by whatever solution your blowoff-tube is stuck in. Depending on
how much the temperature decreases, how long the blowoff tube is,
and the rate at which CO2 is flowing out of the system, it is
quite possible to suck sterilant into your precious wort.

If you cooled your wort down to, say, 70 degrees, pitched a yeast
starter, sealed the fermenter with a blowoff tube stuck in chlorine,
and your room temperature is 65 degrees, you're going to have a
contraction of gas in the headspace when it all settles out at
65 degrees. Unless your yeast starter is really active and the
lag time before significant CO2 production is not longer than this
temperature drop, you could conceivably suck all of your sterilant
into your wort AND whatever wild thangs which are floating in the
air that gets sucked in after it. 

Of course, this is only the pessimistic, doomsday, worst case
scenerio. You could always just relax, don't worry, and have a homebrew.

So how do you safely isolate your wort from air and nasties?

BONG!

(hooka, waterpipe)

Go to your neighborhood illegal drug industry accesories supply store
(your local headshop --- do they still exist back home?) and look at
the principle behind marijuana bongs (this is neither sanctioning nor
indicting drug use so don't bother starting another "drug thread", pro
or con). 

Traditionally, these systems consist of a vessel open at one end in
which water can be added. There is a tube entering the side of this
vessel, the internal end being submerged in water (or whatever) and the
external side being the air (or whatever) input. By producing a vacuum
on the open end of the vessel, the air will draw into the liquid via
the tube, percolate through the water, and to the source of the vacuum.

(brilliantly clever ascii illustration...)

	vacuum source
		^
		|
		|
		air flow
		|
	|		|
	|		|
	|		|   // <--tube air input
	|___OOO_O_O_____|  //
	|    oo o       | //
	|     o o	|//
	|      o        //
	|       o      //
	| liquid   o  //|
	|           oo  |
	|_______________|


Now, don't buy anything at the headshop. Go home and build your own nifty
two way airlock using two baby food jars. One will have three holes in 
the top, one for the input tube one for the output tube (the one going to
 your fermenter), and one to vent off the CO2 when the fermenter starts 
outputting. Fill the jars with sterilant (vodka works just as well as
bleach), put the input tube under the surface of the sterilant, and
make sure the output tube is above the surface of the sterilant.

Voila...

              to fermenter
	         ||    _________
	   	 ||   /________ \
input tube ||	 ||  //        ||
	  _||____||__||_     __||__________
	 [_||____||__||_]   [__||__________]
	 | ||    ||  || |   |  ||          |
	 |_||__o________|   |__||_______O__|       
	 | ||oo         |   |  ||          |
	 | ||oO  o      |   |  ||     O    |  
	 |  o           |   |   o   o      |
	 |   o          |   |    o         |
	 | GERBERS tm   |   |              |
	 |______________|   |______________|


Now you can really relax and have a homebrew (or whatever).

Steve Tollefsrud
Valbonne, France

e-mail: steve_t at fleurie.compass.fr


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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 15:17 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: DeadWyeast/TooMuchTrub/BleachConcentr/Blowoff/HopBags/NoonanHopRate

Tim writes:
>I had some refrigerated Wyeast  London only 3 months old (from mfg date) 
>that would not swell up at all.

I would suspect that the package had been mishandled (either frozen or
had gotten too hot), not necessarily by you -- 90% of supply shop owners
that I've talked to don't really know much about brewing (or just think
they do).  Most around here don't even brew regularly!

*****

Curt writes about a beer that had way too much trub:

>3.3# M & F Sout Kit (hopped syrup + yeast)
>2# Laglander amber DME
>0.5# crystal malt (40L)
>0.5# black patent
>0.5# roasted barley
>1# steel cut oats
>0.5 oz fuggles (boil - 15 min)
>1.0 oz. Kent Goldings (finish)
>yeast from kit

The problems is the oats.  You need to mash them if you want to use them
in a beer.  You need to add some Base malt, like Pale or Pils to provide
enzymes or you can use a diastatic malt extract such as Edme DMS.
I believe that M&F makes a diastatic malt extract too.

*****
Greg writes:
>I would just soak beercaps in a room temperature solution of unfragranced
>chlorine bleach (like you use for laundry) with a concentration of 1/2 tsp.
>bleach per gallon of water.  Let the caps soak for at least 15 minutes. 

I agree, but I think the concentration you suggest is a bit low.  The
recommended concentration is 1 tablespoon of household bleach per gallon
(this is based upon my discussions with Dr. Joe Power at the Siebel
Institute.

*****
Ryan writes:
>what do you do with the other end of the tube. Do you leave 
>it in a pan , what about air contaming the wort?

You should put it into a gallon jug or bucket which has a quart of
liquid in it.  Some have suggested using sanitizer, but I just use
plain tapwater.  If you have concerns about your tapwater (in case
it gets sucked up into the fermenter while the wort is cooling) you
can boil it first.

>One more question. I was going to dry hop my bitter and since I 
>only have the one carboy I thought about stuffing the the hops in after 
>primary ferm. Would this cause problems doing this ? What do I lose if 
>anything ? Do I have to rack when adding hops?

No, you do not have to rack.  I've been adding dryhops to my primary
with no problems at all.  I just wait for fermentation to subside to
about a glub per minute and add the dryhops for a week-to-10days.

*****
Paul writes:
>the hop pellets dissolved enough to
>seep out of the hop sacks (I was sold these with the hops, but did I need
>them?) and when I tried to pour off the wort into my carboy, the strainer
>clogged very quickly

Sounds like either the hop bag was too coarse a mesh or your strainer was
clogging with hot & cold break, not hops.  I use hop bags all the time,
use pellets most of the time and have removed the strainer from the funnel.
I just pour the wort in until I reach the trub and then stop pouring.
Usually, I leave only a quart or so of liquid in the kettle.  I've brewed
this way using both blowoff and non-blowoff and the beers have come out
mighty tasty (and won a few ribbons too).

****
Keith writes:
>After reading Noonan's book, I am a little confused about hopping 
>Scotch/Scottish ales.  I realize that alot of hops are used to balance the 
>high gravity/malt, but the numbers in the recipes seem to be very high.  For 
>instance, BU (bittering units, HBU I think -- or maybe its IBU, he's not real 
>clear here) for a 140 Shilling Wee Heavy is given as 60.  That would mean 6
>oz. of 10% AA hops or 12 oz. of 5% AA hops if I am interpreting this
>correctly.  Hop utilization for this brew is given as 20%. 

Your second hunch is correct.  It's IBUs (or some would say, estimated IBUs).
Check out the formulas in Jackie Rager's article in the Hops Special Issue
of Zymurgy or the formulas posted in back issues of HBD.  Then again, doesn't
Noonan give recipes in the back?  Those say "X ounces of hop Y with a %AA of
Z" don't they?

Al.

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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 15:23 CST
From: korz at iepubj.att.com
Subject: Blowoff Vacuum/HB Shelflife/Take a Bow

Jack (St. Clair) writes:
>Secondly, there is never a moment during the 
>fermentation process when a vacuum is created to provide a 
>'sucking' action.  There is always a positive pressure in the 
>carboy, that's why we see bubbles coming out.  

Yes and no.  It is true that "during fermentation" there is always
positive pressure, however, many homebrewers (despite the warnings)
use small diameter blowoff hoses.  If your wort goes into the
fermenter at, say 80F and you then put it into a 65F basement, the
contraction of the air in the headspace will create enough of a 
vacuum to suck liquid into the fermenter up a 3/8" ID hose.  Also,
the same is true if you overfill certain kinds of airlocks (like
the Econolock).  That's why boiled-cooled water is the safest
thing to put in your airlock/blowoff bucket, but I just use hot
(160F) tapwater.

Certainly nothing is going to crawl up your blowoff tube, so why
even use sanitizer?  Blowoff can support mold (I know, firsthand),
but by then you can just switch to an airlock.

****
Phil asks about beer shelf life.

The shelf life of beer depends on your sanitation, hop rate and
on the alcohol level of the beer.  Good sanitation, high hop rate
and high alcohol level will make a beer that will keep for *years*.
More normal hop rates and alcohol levels, if you keep the beer in
a cool place and you have good sanitation, should be good for a
month or two and then begin to decline in quality, but should still
be drinkable for well over a year.  How quickly the beer will
begin to lose quality depends a lot on oxygen in the beer (HSA and
post-ferment) -- the less the better.  If the beer begins to
overcarbonate, then either you bottled too early or your sanitation
is not as good as it could be.

****
Take a Bow

Let the entire HBD membership take a bow.  Not a single post in HBD #1363
that did not have some significant homebrew-related or beer-related
topic.  No flames, no anger, no kidding.

Al.

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Date: 3 Mar 1994 17:09:48 U
From: "Manning Martin MP" <manning#m#_martin_p at mcst.ae.ge.com>
Subject: Long Lived Wyeast

I rarely engage in one-upmanship, but I can top a previous posters aged yeast
packet story. I have and still regularly use a Wyeast 1084 Irish culture that
I excavated from the back of my refrigerator two years past the package date.
As I (vaguely) recall, when I activated it, it took only about two days to
swell up. This was a couple of years ago, and the culture has been
regenerated multiple times since. The moral here is that if the yeast is
treated well, i.e. kept between 32-40 deg F, it will last a good long while.
If not, like it was allowed to get warm in transit, it may be DOA.
Conscientious dealers will pay extra for rapid transit, and place their
orders during cooler weather. If they order directly from the yeast supplier
rather than through a wholesaler, there is one less chance for problems to
occur.

MPM

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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 14:50:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Scot Duckrow <scot at thor.seaspace.com>
Subject: Brew Pub Equipment Sources?

A friend without access to the net and who wants to start a brew pub asked
me to post the following question.

Does anyone have a list of supplier of brew pub equipment (large lauter
tuns, mashing accessories, fermentation and storage tanks, high capacity
wort chillers and filters, etc.) or companies who sell used equipment of
the same variety?

Since this isn't really an HBD topic, you can e-mail to me directly.
If I get enough responses I can submit to sierra.stanford.edu

Thanks,
Scot



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Date: Thu, 03 Mar 94 13:31:41 EST
From: fudgemstr at aol.com
Subject: Pumps

I have gotten many relpies through my emailand I'd like to thank you all by
summarizing my results.

First, let me say that I haven't actually gone out to look for these things
yet, so I don't know the prices.

What I really wanted was a pump housing that I could rig to my drill so that
I could have a variable speed pump, and not really have to worry about having
valves to restrict flow...I could just reduce the rpm on the drill.  A few
good suggestions came over the lines.

1.  Dishwasher pump.  should be food grade shouldn't it? and should be able
to handle the temp.
      some dishwashers have two pumps, one is a recirc pump, the other a
drain pump.  

2. Washing machine pump.  Should be able to handle the temps.

3. Look into a grainger catalog.  I live in the Tampa area, and luckily the
company I work for has a grainger account.  I'll be looking into this soon.
will post later.

All in all, I think I like the dishwasher pump idea the best.I think it will
be the cheapest (about $30 the last time I purchased one) and I will be able
to rig it to my drill.  I'll let you know.

Fudge

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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 16:42:49 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jason P. Ramsay" <jramsay at crl.com>
Subject: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

I'm interested in getting on the homebrew mailing list.  Any information 
would be appreciated.


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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 19:43:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Henry E Kilpatrick <hkilpatr at mason1.gmu.edu>
Subject: Maple in brewing

Regina H. asks if maple syrup is very fermentable.  I'm not a technical 
brewer, but a general answer is that it is fermentable to the point of 
making your beer very thin.  This may offend those who want body, but it 
doesn't bother those whose primary interest is taste.  I suppose you 
can add a few non-fermentables to get the body up, but I don't bother.  I 
make what would otherwise be a Belgian white ale, except that I add a quart of 
maple syrup to a 5 gallon batch.  It is about the only beer recipe I repeat.

Does anyone know where the cheapest maple syrup in the VA-DC-MD-PA area is?

                       Buddy Kilpatrick   hkilpatr at mason1.gmu.edu 




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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 19:12:32 -0600 (CST)
From: Frank Longmore <longmore at TYRELL.NET>
Subject: WYEAST #3068 works!


In #1360,  Wolfe at act-12-po.act.org   says:

>     I've brewed 2 batches of wheat beer with the Wyeast 3056.  Niether has
>had much of a banana or clove taste to it.  The first had a very slight
>amount of clove esters (I fermented it at around 65F).  The second had
>virtually no esters (I fermented it around 58F like the yeast FAQ...

My all-time favourite brew is the Hefe-Weizen found in the Bavarian
region, which is characterized by that clove taste.

Recently, I made a very good imitation I called "Kansas Heifer-Weizen".
The following is for a 5 gallon batch:

 3.3 lbs -  Yellow Dog extract (12% wheat) (thanks Sam!)
 3.3 lbs -  Northwestern "Weizen" extract (65% wheat)
 1.5 aau -  Hallertauer hops, 50 minutes in boil (bittering)
 1.5 aau -  Hallertauer hops, in wort for 10 minutes after boil
 1 quart -  starter from WYEAST #3068 Weihenstephen wheat yeast.

After chilling and siphoning into the primary, I aerate the wort
for about 5 minutes with pure O2 from my welding rig, then pitch.
O.G. was 1.042, and F.G. was 1.014.  Fermentation was for 9 days
at 63 deg. F., then racked into a Cornelius keg.

Results _excellent_ with a very nice "clove" flavor.

Brew on!
Frank


  >>>>>>>>>> Frank Longmore    Internet:   longmore at tyrell.net  <<<<<<<<<<<
  >>>>>>>>>> Olathe, Kansas    Compuserve: 70036,1546           <<<<<<<<<<<
  >>>>>>>    I feel more like I do now than I did when I started... <<<<<<<



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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 21:13:42 -0500
From: dd596 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Marc L. Goldfarb)
Subject: Rhizome sources ???


Hi All:

Just a quick question. I am looking for sources to buy hop
rhizomes (are there any other kinds)?  Please respond via
e-mail.  I will consolidate al  responses and post  the 
resulting directory in about a week.

TIA and happy brewing.
Marc


- --
Clear skies and hoppy brewing from the North Coast
Marc Goldfarb, Prestige Aviation & DiMarc Brewing
216-631-3323 or on Internet - dd596 at cleveland.freenet.edu

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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 22:00:50 EST
From: JEBURNS at ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: Missing HBD's and Bicycle Beer (tm)

I missed several issues of HBD.  For some reason they quit coming and
I had to re-subscribe.  If someone could forward the digests between
Feb. 25 and March 2  (if there were any).

Also, I had an interesting beer the other day called Bicycle Beer.
Actually it's more of a flavored malt beverage (thats what it says
in small letters on the bottle).  It's bottled here in Indiana , but
the company is based in Chicago I think.  After trying the beer I happened
to be reading through some back issues of The Brewer's Digest and saw 
an article on the same beer.  Apparently it is being marketed as a malt
based equivalent to wine coolers.  It is for the "60% of the population
that don't like the taste of beer..." Anyway, I was wondering if
anyone else had tried this stuff.  I thought it was better than wine 
coolers but that isn't saying much.  Brewer's Digest is really not very
useful for the homebrewer.  Someone had mentioned that it contained
lists of brewpubs, but I think that is a once a year issue.  The library
did't have it.  Mostly it is about commercial brews and advertisements.

Dave in Bloomington             jeburns at ucs.indiana.edu

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1364, 03/04/94