FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Is it really what they say it is? (DAVE SWITZER)
  Celis Grand Cru clone (Mark A Fryling)
  Whole Hop Pellets (WLK.Wbst311)
  seat of the pants test (btalk)
  Drilling holes in glass (sarge)
  sparging (Greg Brauckmann)
  Follow up to hopping Scotch Ales (Keith MacNeal  07-Mar-1994 0929)
  Rejected by Star9gate - und ("STAR9GATE")
  Re: The Yankee Brew News (Automagical Mail Responder)
  Re: Hop aroma and boiling times (Jim Busch)
  Woodruff/weissbier yeast/carboys (RONALD DWELLE)
  SPARGE WATER (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  More beginner questions (bitterness) (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Re: Northwestern Extract (MARK CASTLEMAN)
  Heated mash? (Chuck Wettergreen)
  brewing non-alcohol beers (Louis XIV)
  NOT Pilsener Urquell! (Michael Sheridan)
  3056 ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
  Connecticut Brewers? (Brian=Wilson)
  Boiling Caps (Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171  07-Mar-1994 1340)
  Park slope brewpub (david.jacobson)
  growing hops (Chris Lovelace)
  Re: Soda keg taste? (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Plastic bottles - The Experiment (Derek Sheehan)
  Partial Mash -> Full Mash (Christopher Alan Strickland)
  more on sucking bleach into wort (Peter Maxwell)
  re: cold hopping & grassy flavors (Chris Kagy)
  Reply to David Huffman (exe01679)
  Homegrown Hop data point (Mike Dix)
  Bad Taste (Mike Slowik)


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Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 06 Mar 1994 17:15:35 -0500 (EST)
From: DAVE SWITZER <SWIT1876 at splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: Is it really what they say it is?

 My name is Dave Switzer and I attend the State University of New York at
Plattsburgh.  Since I live so close to the Canadian border I hear a lot 
about the Canadian beers on the Market.  I have recently heard of a current
beer that is rich and also containing 7.3 percent alcohol.  It's called
Molson XXX.  I want to know, does the taste have a logger beer essence or
is it a watered down tasting beer such as Coors.  I would like to know in
order to decide whether to purchase it or not.  If anyone can help me out I
would greatly appreciate it.  Please E-Mail me soon because I have a planned
trip to Canada coming up and I would like to know.  Thanks alot!

                               Dave Switzer


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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 8:35:16 EST
From: Mark A Fryling <mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Celis Grand Cru clone

Hi all,
I am interested in brewing something moderately close to Celis Grand Cru 
(incredible stuff!).  Here is the recipe as I have it so far in my mind:

     4lbs Klages 2 row Pale malt
     1lb Dextrine malt
          Infusion mash, 155 F, 1hr
     6lbs NWestern Weizen LME
     1lb Laaglander extra pale DME
          Add to kettle after mash runnings have been boiled down to a
          reasonable vol.
     25-30 IBU blend of Hallertau, Styrian Gold., and Tettnang
          Mostly for 60min boil, maybe 5 IBU in last 15 min
     0.5oz dried orange peel
     0.5oz dried coriander
          both added at end of boil
     Dilute to 5 gal of appx. 1.075 wort.
     Pitch large starter of Hoegaarden Wit yeast, and ferment in my 60F
     basement

Comments? Suggestions?

I have one specific question about whether one should mash dextrine malt or 
treat it like a specialty grain and steep it in the 170 F sparge water?

Does this sound like about the right hopping rate?
______________________________________________________________________

Just thought I'd throw in an observation about the use of hop pellets and 
keeping them out of the fermenter.  I never use hop pellets alone; I always use
some leaf hops (either as loose cones or as plugs) with the pellets.  The 
advantage of this IMHO is that when I strain my chilled wort through my 
collander into my fermenting bucket, the leaf hops form a filter bed (not 
unlike a lauter tun) in which the tiny particles from the pellets get caught.  
Using this method, I have never observed excessive particulates in my 
fermenter.

Oh BTW, you can send the comments about the Grand Cru recipe directly unless 
they are of general interest.  I'll post the final version if the beer turns 
out well. TIA

Later
Mark Fryling
<mfryling at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"
  source unknown

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Date: 	Mon, 7 Mar 1994 05:48:02 PST
From: WLK.Wbst311 at xerox.com
Subject: Whole Hop Pellets

Greetings:
In the past I have used 1 oz. packets of dried hop pellets; but have been
annoyed at the amount of hop sludge that they create on the fermenters bottom.
Recently I came across  whole hop pellets, packaged as two, five half oz.
segments, akin to a tootsie roll.  Are these simply hop cones/flowers that have
been compressed, or are they ground up?  If not, do I use a mesh hop bag?  They
are stored frozen, so another question is whether or not they should be
defrosted, or are they simply plunked into the boiling wort straight from the
freezer? Any advice or comments are appreciated!
Thanks
Bill K.

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Date: Mon, 07 Mar 94 08:57:02 EST
From: btalk at aol.com
Subject: seat of the pants test

I have my own version of this historical test- the Sole of the Shoe test. 
When my sneakers start sticking to my kitchen floor, it is time to lay off
the homebrews, get out the mop and clean up the spolled wort ;)
Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton ,NY

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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 08:44:44 EST
From: sarge at tecnet1.jcte.jcs.mil
Subject: Drilling holes in glass

   YES, you can drill a hole in glass. I have drilled several holes in
wine bottles in the past when turning them into lamps. Well, not quite
drilling. You use a grinder made for the purpose. It looks like the
eraser end of a pencil with a rounded end, about 1/2 inch in diameter.
Just use it like a drill and lubricate with plenty of water.
 

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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 09:06:36 EST
From: gjb at endeavour.larc.nasa.gov (Greg Brauckmann)
Subject: sparging

Would anyone like to comment on the consequences of letting your sparge water
temperature drop too low.  We use a cooler with a false bottom, but sometimes
we run out of water to keep it topped off when sparging.  While heating new
water the temp sometimes drops to 150 F, or lower.

thanks, gb

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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 09:33:11 EST
From: Keith MacNeal 07-Mar-1994 0929 <macneal at pate.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Follow up to hopping Scotch Ales

Thanks for all the responses to my question on hopping Scotch Ale.  It appears
that the BU given by Noonan is IBU.  After a couple of questions like "Are you
sure he didn't give oz. of hops?", I looked again.  Sure enough, further on
in the recipe he does give hop quantities in HBU.  For the case of the 140
Shilling Edinburgh Ale with a BU of 60 and utilization of 20%, the HBU is
given as 20.

I think it's time to put an order in for Wyeast 1728 and start making up a
gallon of 1080 wort.

Keith MacNeal
Digital Equipment Corp.
Hudson, MA

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Date: 5 Mar 1994 04:51:18 -0500
From: "STAR9GATE" <STAR9GATE at star9gate.mitre.org>
Subject: Rejected by Star9gate - und

Mail*Link(r) SMTP               Homebrew Digest #1365 (March 05, 
!!!! Original Message >= 24K; See following enclosure. Preview follows !!!!


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Precedence: bulk
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1365 (March 05, 1994)



HOMEBREW Digest #1365		             Sat 05 March 1994


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Sorry about the double posting... (Steven Tollefsrud)
  The Yankee Brew News (Tom Luteran)
  air-tight primary fermenter (F. G. Patterson Jr.)
  Potato beer (STROUD)
  Boiling caps (Jim Grady)
  Fullers ESB clone (Matthew Howell)
  Holes in Glass ("Karl F. Lutzen" )
  mail order Wyeast (Matthew Howell)
  freezing cracked malt (RONALD DWELLE)
  Hot water hoses/tubing (Rick Gordon)
  Re: Contaminate, pasteurize, potatos, and Gott (Dion Hollenbeck)
  beating a dead horse with a blowoff tube ("Steven W. Smith")
  Sanitizing... (Brian Klimowski)
  Blow-Off Tubes ("Renee Peloquin Mattie")
  northwestern extract (TODD CARLSON)
  BAA/RPS (Brian Bliss)
  Rejected by star9gate - und ("STAR9GATE")
  Re: creme soda / BrewTek (Automagical Mail Responder)
  Drilling holes in Glass (CLINT BIHM)
  Wyeast 3056 Works too! (I think....) (Jack Skeels)
  carboys, once and for all (dan_fox)
  O2 Absorbing Bottle Caps (Mark Garetz)
  The Brewer's Digest (GNT_TOX_)
  Holes in Glass (Steve Scampini)
  SPARGE WATER (greg.demkowicz)
  waterpipes (korz)
  Re: Opening a brewery & Ulicks Wit (Jim Busch)
  Homebrewing 101...Coopers.. ("Patricia Moline")
  Soda keg taste? (Timothy Sixberry)
  Red Nectar Info Request (southard)


Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from 
  sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via 
  mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu.  Send HELP as the body of a 
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) 
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 10:56:57 +0100
From: vlsisj!fleurie!steve_t at uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com (Steven Tollefsrud)
Subject: Sorry about the double posting...

My apologies to the entire homebrew digest community for the
double posting of "Sucking bleach into your brew". I canceled the
first incorrect version, but my cancel was rejected for having
been sent from a different person than who posted the original article ??!!
Steve Tollefsrud

- ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Mar 94 8:18:31 EST
From: Tom Luteran <toml at hpwargh.wal.hp.com>
Subject: The Yankee Brew News


  Hi!

    Does anyone have info on or know how to get in touch with 
    The Yankee Brew News?

    Thanks!

  Tom
 - --
+----------------------------------------------------+
| Thomas Luteran           | INTERNET address:       |
| Hewlett-Packard Company  | toml at wal.hp.com         |
| Medical Products Group   | HP TELNET: 1-659-4770   |
| 3000 Minuteman Road      | VOICE: (508) 659-4770   |
| Andover, MA 01810        | FAX: 



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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 07:56:57 -0700
From: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Automagical Mail Responder)
Subject: Re: The Yankee Brew News



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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 10:15:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Hop aroma and boiling times

greg wrtiers, quoting Rick,
>  The hop AROMA boils away after about 15-20 minutes, not the "alpha
>  (acids)".  The purpose of the 60 minute boil is to isomerize the alpha
>  acids present in the hops.  This isomerization is what makes the
>  bitterness.  This bitterness cannot be boiled away.  Pre-hopped malt
>  extracts do not need to be boiled for 60 minutes, as the alpha acids
>  have already been isomerized. (Courtesy of Rick Meyers, Thank-You)

The key words here are "hop AROMA boils away *after* about 15-20 minutes"

Rememeber that German Pilsners are quite hoppy in the nose, and this is
achieved by a hop addition at 15 minutes to cast out.  Also, the method
of trub removal/wort chilling will influence the hop aroma/bitterness
equation.

Jim Busch


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Date: Mon, 07 Mar 94 11:18:50 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: Woodruff/weissbier yeast/carboys

     Rick Dante asked about Woodruff. I suspect you're referring to 
     Sweet Woodruff which is a ground-cover/herb that is not too 
     unusual. My wife and I grow it throughout our backyard (mostly to 
     eliminate grass which requires cutting). It is traditionally used 
     as a flavoring in German "May Wine," and when it blooms in the 
     spring, we always drop some sprigs in our glasses of red wine. As 
     an herb, it has a taste similar to Tarragon (I've heard that it 
     is sometimes sold commercially as Tarragon), and we always dry a 
     little bit for use over winter (nice in chicken dishes). I never 
     heard of it for beer, but now that you mention it....why not. 
     Maybe make a "tea" to add to the wort? Incidentally, we never 
     could get it growing from seeds--finally had to buy plants, and 
     it took it several years to get solidly established. I'm planning 
     to divide some in a couple weeks, so I can plant it around the 
     bases of my new hop plants.
        Different matter--I bought some import Pschorr (sp?), that was 
     called "Pschorr-Sumthing Weissbier with yeast." It was expensive, 
     like $2 for 16 oz., but I figured I'd recover the yeast and get a 
     free starter. The beer was great and I really liked the clove 
     taste, but I couldn't get yeast to grow--I assume it was dead, 
     because I did all the normal precautions. Q--I've read that the 
     Germans demand the yeast with their Weissbier. Is the yeast 
     normally killed somehow? Or did my purchase just have a long ride 
     from Germany to Michigan? I would like to try this again, because 
     I had zero luck with Wyeast 3056.
        Shift gears again--a place called Little Ole Winemaking Shop 
     (honest), 4 S 245 Wiltshire Ln, Sugar Grove, IL 60554, 
     708-557-2523, sells 5-gallon carboys for $8 but will not ship 
     them (don't know why). It's just west of Chicago, so next time 
     you're driving a pickup that way... (no connection, blah 
     blah...).
     Cheers,
     Ron Dwelle (dweller at gvsu.edu)

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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 11:19:11 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: SPARGE WATER

greg.demkowicz at circellar.com writes:
 > it seems the conventional wisdom regarding sparge water
 > quantity is; .5 gal per 1 Lb grain. For a five gallon batch
 > and grain bills of 7 lbs or so, this is fine, but what
 > about 11 lb grain bills? 

When you're making high-gravity beers, you've either got to put up
with lower than optimal extraction rates or with large, long boils.  I
usually start my high gravity mashes with about 1 quart/lb, giving me
some leeway to raise the temperature by adding hot/boiling water (I
mash in a drink cooler).  In my experience, and with my setup, if I
take just first runnings from this, I'll get about .6-.7qt/lb of wort
at about 1.090.  


 > While I'm on the topic of sparging, the common chemical for
 > reducing the pH of hard water is Gypsum. My boiled Tap water
 > requires 1.5 Tbls of Gypsum to bring the pH down to 5.5 (when
 > cooled). 

Aha, a common misconception.  You don't want to measure the pH of the
strike water, but the pH of the mash itself.  The calcium in the
gypsum combines with phytins in the malt to liberate phytic acid that
drops the mash pH into the appropriate range.

=S

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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 11:49:31 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: More beginner questions (bitterness)

Hop bitterness extraction is complicated and depends on several
factors, some of which have to do with the hops, and some of which
don't.

There are factors that affect the actual iso-alpha acid content (IBUs)
in the finished beer, including:

1. Hop AA content.  This is related pretty linearly to bitterness, all
   else being equal.
2. Form of hops (whole versus pellets).  Pellets extract better.
3. Length of boil.  Longer boil (up to about an hour) extracts more
   bitterness.
4. Specific gravity of wort.  If the SG is over about 1.050, the
   amount of bitterness extracted from the hops goes down (Mark Garetz
   will debate this point, but it corresponds to my experience, and
   that of others).

These first four factors are the ones used in the typical formula
(such as is found in Papazian's book).  But there are more, including:

5. Vigour of boil.  A wimpy "simmering" boil won't extract as much
   bitterness as a strong "rolling" boil.
6. Yeast effects -- some amount of the bittering compounds will attach
   to and settle out with the yeast.  A quick-settling yeast will
   remove less than a slow-settling yeast.

And then there are factors that affect the perceived bitterness, even
in beers that have equal levels of iso-alpha acids (the primary hop
bittering compound).  These include:

7. Final gravity (sweetness and body) of the beer.  A light-bodied,
   dry beer will let the bitterness through much more so than a heavy,
   sweet one. 
8. Water ionic composition.  In particular, high sulfate levels will
   accentuate hop bitterness, sometimes unpleasantly.
9. Carbonation level.  All the flavors of a "spritzier" beer will come
   through more, including the bitterness.
10. Use of bitter, dark grains will contribute a non-hop bitterness.
11. Color -- a dark colored beer will typically be perceived as more
   bitter than a light colored beer.
12. Hop variety.  There are other compounds that can be extracted from
   hops that are bitter -- in particular, some of the beta acids or
   their oxidation compounds.  And the balance of alpha acids (and
   therefore iso-alpha acids) differs between hop varieties, and *may*
   affect the perceived bitter flavor.

And I'm sure there are others.  

=S

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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 09:46:44 -0700 (MST)
From: MARK CASTLEMAN <mwcastle at ouray.Denver.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Re: Northwestern Extract

I have been using Northwestern Extracts almost exclusivly for the past 3
years.  NW is indeed made by Briess and can be found for as low as $6 for
a 3.3lb bag/box.  I have used all four extracts (gold,amber,dark & weiss)
and gotten good results from all of them.  I know that a NW/Briess dry
malt also exists, but i have never used it.

                             Mark W Castleman
                     Big Dog Brewing Cooperative - West 
My opinions are for this branch of the co-op only.  CU-Denver doesn't know I
have opinions, And even if it did, it wouldn't care one whit.


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Date: Mon,  7 Mar 94 08:31:00 -0600
From: chuck.wettergreen at aquila.com (Chuck Wettergreen)
Subject: Heated mash?


All-grainers,

Does the process of mashing produce heat?

I've been using my new Gott cooler for mashing and sparging for 
about the last five batches. I've had no problems coming up with the 
right strike water temperature to arrive at the pre-determined 
conversion temperature. By this I mean, after mashing in, vigorous 
stirring of the mash for five minutes, and then a five minute rest 
to let the temperature stabilize, my mash temperature is at or within 
one degree of what I wanted. Later, however, maybe a half an hour 
later, the temperature has climbed anywhere from three to five 
degrees. I preheat the cooler with hot tap water prior to mashing 
in. Could it be that the water I'm using to preheat is too hot, or 
is the mashing process producing extra heat?

TIA,

Chuck
 * RM 1.3 00946 * 

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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 11:02 CDT
From: Louis XIV <KROEGER at polisci.wisc.edu>
Subject: brewing non-alcohol beers

Greetings fellow homebrewers --
 
Has anyone out there in HBD land successfully brewed a non-alcohol
beer?  I've got a couple of good friends who are beer lovers but,
alas, can no longer drink alcohol.  I'd love to make them some
tasty n.a. brews but have never tried it.  I'm looking for any
suggestions that anybody has.
 
I suspect that the alcohol can be cooked off by bringing the already
fermented brew to just below boiling for a while, and then proceeding
with bottling as one normally would.  I seem to remember seeing
some comment about that on the HBD when I first subscribed.  My
questions are:
 
 
Most importantly, would that work?
 
Would it kill off the yeast and prevent carbonation from working?
 
Would it alter the taste?
 
Are there particularly good or bad types of beers to try this with?
 
And, is there another technique that anyone has tried?
 
 
I'm about to start a new batch and would like to try this with at
least part of it.
 
Thanks in advance for the access to everyone's collective brewing
wisdom.  If anyone would like to reply to me directly, you can send
me email at either kroeger at wiscps.bitnet or kroeger at polisci.wisc.edu.
 
Happy brewing!
 
+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
| brian kroeger           %% "Whatever universe a professor believes  |
|                          %%  in must at any rate be a universe that |
| kroeger at wiscps.bitnet     %%  lends itself to lengthy discourse"    |
| kroeger at polisci.wisc.edu   %%           - William James             |
+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +

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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 12:20:19 EST
From: mikesher at acs.bu.edu (Michael Sheridan)
Subject: NOT Pilsener Urquell!

Hi brewers!
Last week I posted a question about how and why yeast sticks to the 
bottom of the bottle (still waiting for theories, explanations, etc....) 
because I was worried about a pils with cloudy, swishy yeast.  I got a 
few useful responses about how the amount of honey that we'd used 
could affect the unaged taste and possibly create 2 cases of capped 
glass grenades.  Well, we (Kristina and I, a co-brewing couple) tasted 
the stuff over the weekend, and it's plain awful.  Here's the recipe we 
followed, straight from Papazian (p. 190, Propensity Pilsener Lager):

5 # plain light DME  (we used 6.5 # M&F plain light extract, wet)
1 # crystal malt
2.5 #  honey
2.5 oz. Saaz  (boiling, 45 min.)
 .5 oz. Tettnanger (flavor, 10 min.)
 .5 oz  Saaz   (aroma, 1 min.)
1 tsp Irish moss
1 pkg dry lager yeast (we used Red Star)
	primed with .75 cup corn sugar

	O.G.  1.052, fermented at around 40 deg. for 4 weeks
	F.G.  1.020, fermentation complete?, no bubbles for 6 days
Charlie said that this would be something like Pilsener Urquell.  No way.  
It's thick, reddish-brown, and SWEET.  The honey comes through FAR 
too strong and cloying.  As for carbonation, this stuff is already more 
bubbly and heady than any of the ales we've done.
	This stuff is so yucky that we're considering drastic action.
We'll leave a six-pack to either explode or mellow into drinkability, and 
uncap the rest and rebottle.  All I can think to do is to add a weakly 
hopped gallon of water (making the total around 5.5 gal), dropping the 
S.G. 10 points, and hopefully shifting the reddish color closer to the 
golden area of the spectrum.  Any other ideas?  Repitching some 
yeast?  Tossing in yeast nutrients?  Chucking the whole damn thing? 
Was our basic mistake in the recipe itself, i.e., too many fermentables? 
 Or were our cheapo dry yeasties the real culprits???

Speak, o fonts of constructive criticism

Mike Sheridan + Kristina Simmons

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Date:     Mon, 7 Mar 94 12:35:27 EST
From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616" <wagnecz at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  3056

I too have had acceptable results with Wyeast 3056 on both extract
and all grain wheat brews.  For the record, I keep the fermentation temp.
towards the high side, 70-72 F., until the krausen settles back (about 
2-3 days), then cool down to about 66-68 F.  I've gone lower, (62-64),
but this seems to really slow things down.  The banana nose is there but
at a level that I like, but I could probably go for a little more on
the phenolic (clove) side of things.  This is why I have been promising
myself to try the 3058 next time...

			Glen

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Date: Mon,  7 Mar 94 13:18:06 EST
From: Brian=Wilson%Eng%Banyan at hippo.banyan.com
Subject: Connecticut Brewers?


Hello HBDland,

    This weekend I am going to go to my brother-in-law's house in Connecticut
to help him enter the world of brewing.  We plan to go to a brew shop and
purchase equipment and ingredients and then do his first brew.	Unfortunately
I'm not from Connecticut and don't know what's available in the way of
brew shops.  I would appreciate it if some of you Connecticut brewers could
EMAIL me suggestions.  He lives in Simsbury which is just north of Hartford.
PS - info about the local brewpubs would be nice too.

						thanks - brian
						Brian at Banyan.Com





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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 13:42:55 EST
From: Keith A. MacNeal HLO1-1/T09 DTN 225-6171 07-Mar-1994 1340 <macneal at pate.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Boiling Caps

I boiled my caps to sanitize for the first bag of caps.  After that I had
switched suppliers and experienced linings separating from the caps after
boiling.  Since then I do a bleach soak along with my bottles.  I know
some folks who don't treat their caps at all and claim no infection problems.

Keith MacNeal
Digital Equipment Corp.
Hudson, MA

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Date: Sat, 05 Mar 94 03:07:46 
From: david.jacobson at hofbbs.com
Subject: Park slope brewpub


The person asking about information about opening a brewpub in Park
Slope, Brookly should be aware that a brewpub is scheduled to open there
later this year
- ---
 ~ OLX 2.1 TD ~ Imagination Is A Powerful Deceiver

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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 15:27:04 -0500
From: lovelace at pop.nih.gov (Chris Lovelace)
Subject: growing hops

I have a question for all those hop farmers out there.  I'm getting ready
to order rhizomes that my dad will plant in his garden for me.  I have a
book on growing hops that says, in one place, that one should plant both
bittering and finishing hops and says, in another place, that one shouldn't
plant more than one variety of hops together.  I want to grow at least two
varieties.  They'll be growing in a row about 21 feet long, and I plan to
put about 9 rhizomes along that row.  Does anyone see a problem with
planting, say, 6 Cascades rhizomes and then 3 Perle Rhizomes?  Is
cross-pollenation a consern here?

On another, but similar, note, I need to figure out a way to dry the hops
when harvesting season comes.  The book I have has plans to construct this
big drying gizmo, but I don't want to get into that right now.  Can they be
dried in the oven?  How about something like a small hot-air convection
oven or a food dehydrator?

Any advice is welcome.  Private E-Mail is fine.

Chris Lovelace          LOVELACE at POP.NIH.GOV



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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 13:51:51 PST
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Soda keg taste?

>>>>> "Tim" == Timothy Sixberry <tsixber at msrapid.kla.com> writes:

Tim> I would be really greatful if someone could give me some advice
Tim> on a recent problem.  I have two five gallon batches in soda kegs
Tim> that were well cleaned, but that now have a definite surup
Tim> flavor.  I admit that in one I did not replace the lid o-ring,
Tim> but I did in the other.  The one has a sickeningly sweet flavor
Tim> that tastes just like the o-ring smelled(duh), I have replaced it
Tim> now.  Both of these kegs have the red plastic lids which were
Tim> also scrubed with TSP, but I still think its posible that they
Tim> could have contributed to the off flavor. Should I switch the
Tim> lids to metal ones?  

I strongly suspect the plastic lids.  I have all metal lids and have
replaced all the O-rings and have not had any problems.  If you need a
source for lids, Foxx sells them.

dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California


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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 17:02:21 -0700
From: uchtlds at earth.oscs.montana.edu (Derek Sheehan)
Subject: Plastic bottles - The Experiment

I have decided to run the experiment.  I am going to bottle my next two
batches in plastic (PET) 20 oz. bottles.  I am doing this for two reasons. 
First, the plastic bottles will be much easier to store than glass.  There
is little or no chance of breakage when full or empty.  Second, I want to
see if the question of oxygen transport through the plastic is an issue for
homebrewing.  Apparently it is in the soda industry - BUT they typically
deal with pressures in the bottles that a homebrewer never has to worry
about.  Imagine the pressure inside a 2 liter bottle of Pepsi as it is
trucked across the S.W. desert!

Here is how I got the bottles.  Since they are mostly air (when empty!)
they are typically made in the same city that the soda is bottled (it is
much cheaper to ship the raw plastic than the finished product).  I just
found the BOTTLE  manufacturer.  They were very friendly and actually sold
me some experimental 20 oz. bottles.  A little bit of kindness on our part
went a long way.  In fact, we bought 720 bottles!  We had decided to split
the bottles between 6 people.  At 15 cents/bottle it comes to $3.60/case.  

The people at the bottle factory mentioned the CO2 diffusion problem.  They
said that the shelf life of soda is 3-4 months before it goes flat.  From a
homebrewing perspective I don't think that this is a problem.  The yeast
will slowly replenish the CO2, probably at a rate MUCH faster than it
diffuses.  I also think that the constant pressure in the bottle will keep
gasses from diffusing INTO the bottle.  At any rate, the plastic bottles
may not be such a good idea for mead, wine or any beverage that sits in the
bottle for more than 6 months.

I will post the results of my experiment.  Cheers!

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Derek Sheehan  uchtlds at earth.oscs.montana.edu   "Better Living Through 
Montana State University - Chemistry             Chemistry" 
Bozeman,  MT  59715             
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --



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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 19:17:10
From: Christopher Alan Strickland <beach!chris at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Partial Mash -> Full Mash

Just curious, I don't have the equipment for doing a full mash.  But I
do have what Miller said was required for a partial mash.  I was wondering,
why couldn't I do a partial mash, put the extract in my beer pot, then
do another partial mash to get a full mash?
- -- 
Chris Strickland
Internet: beach!chris at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov


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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 16:28:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Peter Maxwell <peterm at aoraki.dtc.hp.com>
Subject: more on sucking bleach into wort

Steve Tollefsrud presented us with "brilliantly clever ascii illustrations"
of a "Gerber Bong" for avoiding sucking bleach in when the pressure drops
for any reason.  The method, shown below (reproduced without permission)



           ||    ||
           ||    ||
input tube ||    || <-- tube to fermenter
        ___||____||____
        [__||____||___]
         | ||    ||  |
         |_||__o_____|
         | ||oo      |
         | ||oO  o   |
         |  o        |
         |   o       |
         | GERBERS tm|
         |___________|


is great if the air flow is as shown, but what happens when air flow
reverses?  When the yeasties do really get into action you're going to be
forcing the liquid back into the "input" tube (now the output).  Doesn't
this indicate the use of one of those S-bend airlocks?  Or am I missing
something?

	Peter

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Date: Mon, 07 Mar 1994 18:42:13
From: chris.kagy at his.com (Chris Kagy)
Subject: re: cold hopping & grassy flavors

Tim Lawson <lawson at clcunix.msj.edu> said:

> Dry hopping adds the aroma of hop oil (which is not grassy) to the brew
> and some degree of bitterness.

The aroma of the hop oil might very well be grassy, depending on the variety
of hop used.  Some hops have an aroma that is less, shall we say, "smooth"
and
that doesn't blend as nicely as others.  Also, age will heal a lot of wounds.

A young beer that is dry hopped with Cascade smells, to my nose, like a
freshly mowed lawn; leave it age for a while and stuff blends nicely.

Lots of factors at play here!

 -chris

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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 1994 19:46:32 -0500 (EST)
From: exe01679 <exe01679 at char.vnet.net>
Subject: Reply to David Huffman


Reply to:
|From: huffmand at ccmail.orst.edu
|Subject: More beginner questions

|          1) What's the story on HBU's as in Papazians book? It seems
|          that you can get the same HBU value using different amounts
|          of hops with different AAU's, yet you come up with a
|          different perceived bitterness according to Papazian's
|          table. So, if a recipe calls for 20 HBU's you could get a
|          more or less bitter brew depending on how you achieve the
|          HBU value. I'm confused.

     Yes Virginia, there is confusion. If you boil 2 oz of 10 % alpha hops
you get the same bittering as 4 oz of 5 % alpha hops or 8 oz of 2.5 % alpha
hops. Wat effects the bitterness more is the amount of time you boil the
hops. If you boil less than 60 minutes you reduce the utilization rate thus
reducing the bitterness.

|          2) Does the vigor of the boil affect either the color
|          of the final brew, or the OG of the wort? My Pils is NOT
|          straw colored (more like red-brown) and I missed the OG by
|          10 to 15 points.

     Yes, the vigor of the boil does slightly effect the color. You run the
risk of slightly carmalizing the sugar at higher temperatures. The major
question would be did you use extract or all grain. With extract you'll
rarely get a nice straw color. Some extracts will but I haven't found one
myself. Did you use any crystal malt? How dark was it ? Use a Cara Pils
crystal next time. It's a very light malt.
     The Gravity just means you didn`t have enough malt. With all Grain
it's easy on the first batch or two not to hit the gravities. You learn to
compensate for your own brewery.

     Hopefully this helps you David and some others.


  Dennis Davison - Beer Barons Of Milwaukee  exe01679 at char.vnet.net

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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 19:07:40 "PST
From: Mike Dix <mdix at dcssc.sj.hp.com>
Subject: Homegrown Hop data point

This is the traditional season for hop growing questions, so I thought
there would be some interest:  My Hallertauer hop rhizome, which I planted
two years ago, has about thirty shoots, up to four inches long, as of March
6.  This is in San Jose (37.5 deg N latitude).    

It does not appear to like full sun at my location:  The west side of the
house is four feet away, and a covered patio blocks the southern sun.  Both
seasons, when the growing tip extended above the patio roof, it turned
brown and died.  The remainder of the plant flourished.

I made a primitive trellis of two pieces of water pipe pounded into the
ground.  They support some aircraft cable, each end of which is staked to
the ground.  The vines twine around pieces of twine which are tied to the
cable.

Contrary to the HBD FAQ, I planted the root horizontally, as per "Homegrown
Hops".  It seems to prefer this, because the root is spreading horizontally
over our herb corner.  It might be time to divide it.  I bought the root
from Fermentation Settlement, after trying for a couple years to grow the
scrawny "twigs" supplied by Nichols Garden Nursery.  It was very pleasant
to get a root as thick as my index finger, that "took" right away.  Another
worthwhile bit of advice from "HH" is to plant the root as early in the
season as possible in your location.  Nichols did not ship until it was
convenient for them in March, so maybe that is why they never sprouted for
me.

I would be interested to hear other people's experiences.

Mike Dix

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Date:         Mon, 07 Mar 94 23:54:25 EST
From: Mike Slowik <SLOWIK%UCONNVM.bitnet at YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu>
Subject:      Bad Taste

This is a call for help. I'm new to homebrewing, and my last four
batches have developed a definite medicinal taste. The brew is beautiful
to look at, nice head retention, not even a hint of chill haze, but that
awful taste... it's not that strong at first , but the burp taste could
remove paint. Its like fumes comming out of your mouth!
      Just a little background, I kit brew following Papazians methods,
and I pay careful attention to sanitation. After reading thru the Yeast FAQ
it mentioned that chlorine can cause yeast to give off a medicinal taste.
I use bleach to disinfect, but I was confident that I rinsed pretty good.
I haven't had my water checked (well water, but the well was drilled just
last year if that matters).
    Can anyone out there lend me there experience and guide me toward a
fix? Could it be just as simple as rinsing better? Could it be my water
is causing some kind of reaction? Maybe there is something else I don't
know about. The beer is drinkable, but all my friends keep asking me to
break out my home brew, and if my wife gets wind that I'm wasting money
on bottled crap my beer allowance could be in jeopardy.
          E Mail response is great and much thanks.
             Mike Slowik   SLOWIK at UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1367, 03/08/94