FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Flawed airlock design.... (Steven Tollefsrud)
  New Address (Paul J. Schumacher)
  Root Beer (GONTAREK)
  Woodruff (George Kavanagh O/o)
  re- pschorr-sumthing (George Tempel)
  relief from the pressure ("Malcolm Tobias")
  Interstate Commerce and EasyMasher (GNT_TOX_)
  Cranberry Lambic Recipe Wanted (macdonald)
  GRASSY TASTE (Jack Schmidling)
  Atlanta Brewpubs ? (Michael Jorgenson 5-5891)
  Honey Lager (Rich Hogle)
  yeast,caps (/R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/)
  Growing and malting grain (Bob Chiz)
  Growing Hops ("Edward F. Loewenstein")
  "ACME" Coyote Cooker/ Woodruff/ Sucking Blowoff/ The Art of Brew (COYOTE)
  pilsner clone some answers and some questions (Edward H Hinchcliffe-1)
  Overrun crown caps (Bart Thielges)
  drilling glass question (Jim Grady)
  Boiling Hops and Wort Gravity (Glen Tinseth)
  Publist, yes, Publist again! ("J. Andrew Patrick")
  California brewing (reviews, sorry Jeff) (Jim Busch)
  Sanitizing Options (Terri Terfinko)
  Ice Brewed is Better! (MIKE ZEOLI)
  RE: Brewing non-alcohol beers (Bob Guerin)
  Drill holes in glass with a Sandblaster ("Rick Violet")
  Re: growing hops (Michael Hohnbaum)
  Woodruff/Yankee Brew News (thomas ciccateri)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 12:56:39 +0100
From: vlsisj!fleurie!steve_t at uucp-gw-2.pa.dec.com (Steven Tollefsrud)
Subject: Flawed airlock design....

Peter Maxwell correctly pointed out that my airlock design
using one Gerber jar would not work. This occurred to me
during a moment of inspiration and I attempted to cancel
this contribution shortly thereafter and replace it with
a kludgy, 2 jar solution. Both appeared in HBD #1365.
The first (incorrect) solution would only work while the
air flow was going into the fermenter, and when CO2 started
flowing out, would squirt sterilant all over the place (what a mess!).
The second solution COULD work if the lengths of the tubes were
all calculated correctly.

A better solution would be to run the blowoff tube into an empty
jar with an S-lock attached to it. The jar would act as a buffer
to contain any wort, etc which could blow out of the fermenter,
while the S-lock would permit gas flow in either direction.
Whether the wild critters passing through the S-lock into the
fermenter during contraction (cooling) would all be killed by
the sterilant is an interesting question. Would a lucky wild yeast
escape unscathed into the fermenter if he/it managed to float inside
a bubble without coming in contact with the sterilant in the S-lock?

 

    | |   __     || 
    |*|  /  |    || 
    |_| /_/||    || 
    \o\/o/ ||    ||
     \o_/  ||    ||
    S-lock ||    || <-- tube to fermenter
         __||____||___
        [__||____||___]
         | ||    ||  |
         |           |
         |       .   |       
         |        .  |
         |       .   |
         |-----------|
         | Blowoff   |
         |___________|
 

Steve Tollefsrud
Valbonne, France
e-mail: steve_t at fleurie.compass.fr

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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 07:22:47 -0500
From: de792 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul J. Schumacher)
Subject: New Address



Please send HBD to my mailbox:  de792 at cleveland.freenet.edu
                      Thanks!!
###

- --


q

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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 7:28:56 -0500 (EST)
From: GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV
Subject: Root Beer

Greetings fellow Brewers!  My wife has been fairly tolerant of my
homebrewing in our small apartment, and has been after me for some
time to make a small batch of root beer. How does one go about
doing that?  Is it as simple as adding root beer extract to some water
and then bottling it with a bit of yeast (for bottle-carbonation)?  Anyone
with advice/recipes/etc is welcome to send me private e-mail.  I would
appreciate it greatly.
	I also have a quick comment on spruce beers/homebrew aging.  In 
November of 1992 I made a Spruce beer (from Papazian's book).  After a few
weeks in the bottle I cracked one open and..AAAGGHH!! Carbonated Pine-Sol!
I mean, you could have used this stuff to clean up sticky wort boil-overs
on your kitchen floors.  Anyway, not wanting to pitch two cases of
homebrew, I kept it and popped one open every few months to see if it
had gotten any better.  By the end of the Summer (1993), it was still
heinous.   BUT...in January of 1994 I had a party and decided to poison
any willing guests with the Spruce Beer.  Guess what?  The stuff was
awesome!  A very rich beer with a creamy head and a nice hint of
spruce.  I was indeed surprised.  No, I wouldn't make it again,
but the lesson for the day is: Don't toss it out unless you absolutely
need the empty bottles!  You might be surprised at how drinkable
a previously awful batch of homebrew might become.
	Well, that's my story.  Take it easy...
Rick Gontarek
gontarek at ncifcrf.gov

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Date: 8  Mar 1994 09:04:07
From: George Kavanagh O/o <George.Kavanagh at omail.wang.com>
Subject: Woodruff

In RE: Rick Dante's query on Woodruff,

I concur with Ronald Dwelle's observations in HBD1367.

I too have had zero luck propagating woodruff from seed, and finally
bought 6 or 8 plants by mail.  4 years later now, woodruff covers a
3 x 10 foot shady boarder as well as a patch under a large taxus bush.
 
Ronald Wyman, in "Wyman's Gardenening Encyclopedia" notes:
 
 "gallium odoratum (also previously known as asperula odorata):
Sweet Woodruff, Zone 4.
Sweet woodruff has long been a garden favorite because of its delicate
growth, 4-petaled white flowers about 1/4" across in loosly branching
clusters from May to mid-June, and its sweet-scented elliptic leaves....
an excellent ground cover in the moist atmosphere under
rhododendrons.....  The leaf has been used in wines and liquors. ...
Easily propagated by simple division."
 
I have found that when crushed, woodruff leaves have a sweet
odor resembling new-mown grass.  In wine it adds a warm, summery
ambience.
 
I'd appreciate hearing of anyone's experiences using woodruff
in beer.
 
 -gk 


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Date: Tue, 08 Mar 1994 08:53:15 +0000 (U)
From: George Tempel <tempel at MONMOUTH-ETDL1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: re- pschorr-sumthing

                      re: pschorr-sumthing
     Ron Dwelle writes:I bought some import Pschorr (sp?), that was 
     called "Pschorr-Sumthing Weissbier with yeast." It was expensive, 
     like $2 for 16 oz., but I figured I'd recover the yeast and get a 
     free starter. The beer was great and I really liked the clove 
     taste, but I couldn't get yeast to grow--I assume it was dead, 
     because I did all the normal precautions. Q--I've read that the 
     Germans demand the yeast with their Weissbier. Is the yeast 
     normally killed somehow? Or did my purchase just have a long ride 
     from Germany to Michigan? I would like to try this again, because 
     I had zero luck with Wyeast 3056.

actually ron, the Pschorr-Brau (was Hacker-Pschorr in previous years)
is one of the best hefe-weizen's available here in the US (in my
humble opinion). The yeast you mention is, I believe, a lager yeast
used in conditioning, not the weizen yeast you are hoping for,
and is probably very dead from not
only the long ride but the nasty things they do to imports (pasteurize?).

I have had great luck with the Wyeast 3056, but it is a funny dual-yeast
that is reported to be unstable and do different things. I understand and
have purchased, though not used, the new Wyeast 3068, which is
from the Weihenstephen (spelling?) Yeast Bank in Germany.

Good luck brewing...

l8r...
ty (george tempel, home = netromancr at aol.com)
"kiss cats: the dachshund and the deer are one"--wallace stevens



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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 08:26:54 -0600
From: "Malcolm Tobias" <mtobias at wurel.wustl.edu>
Subject: relief from the pressure


  I opened my first long-awaited double bock and was horrified as foam
gushed out of the bottle until almost nothing was left.  At first I
despaired, was I doomed to 1oz of beer and 11 of foam?  Finally I decided
to try something.  I took a bottle opener (the kind that goes all the way
around the cap {}=== ) and slowly lifted the cap until I heard the gas
start to escape.  After a few seconds the beer started to foam up so I
released the cap and it seemed to form a good seal.  I waited for the
foam to subside and then repeated this several times (with one bottle
I heard a hissing so I assumed it hadn't re-sealed and drank it :) ).
That was about a week ago and I haven't opened a gusher since.

hope this helps any other impatient brewers out there,

- -- 
Malcolm Tobias
mtobias at wurel.wustl.edu 				...Zmail welcome...



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Date:     Tue, 8 Mar 94 09:26 EST
From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:  Interstate Commerce and EasyMasher

Two quick questions:

What's the status of interstate homebrew travel.  E-Mail please, I'm
sure this has been discussed before.

And what's an Easymasher?  If anyone could give me a good description
along with personal experience, I'd appreciate it.

Andy Pastuszak
Philadelphia, PA
INTERNET: GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU
BITNET:   GNT_TOX_ at ALLOY.BITNET


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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 09:35:03 EST
From: macdonald at akocoa.enet.dec.com
Subject: Cranberry Lambic Recipe Wanted

Looking for a recipe for a cranberry lambic. Could anyone who has
one send it to me via e-mail, or post it here if you think others might be 
interested. 
Regards,
Bruce

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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 09:17 CST
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: GRASSY TASTE

 
 >From: Tim Lawson <lawson at clcunix.msj.edu>
 >Subject: cold hopping & grassy flavors
 
 >Jack Schmidling's response to Domenick Venezia's question about why
 a recent all-grain brew tasted "grassy" suggests that the flavor results
 from "not cooking the hops" used to dry hop the brew.  He implies that
 dry hopping always produces this flavor.
 
 > A much more plausible explanation for the grassy flavor can be found in
 Zymurgy (vol. 10, number 4, 1987).  George Fix states that "barley is a
 member of the grass family, and thus it is not surprising that grassy
 flavor tones can arise from grains....musty smells will be detected in
 the malt....the best practical measure for avoiding grassy flavors
 involves the proper storage of malt....high temperatures and humid
 conditions should be avoided....malt that has been ground will do this
 very quickly (i.e., absorb moisture)".
 
 I am not in the mood to tangle with George, at least not indirectly and not 
 having read the article but....
 
 When I refer to "grassy flavor", I am referring to what I would assume 
 freshly mown grass would taste like judging from its smell.  Oatmeal, 
 spagetti, beer, saki, tortillas etc., are all derivitives of members of the 
 grass family but their flavor charasteristics result from the starchy part of 
 the grain and not from stems, leaves, sepals, petals and other flower parts.
 
 When fresh or dryed hops are added to cold beer there is a flavor component 
 that would be common to a handfull of fresh or dried grass that does not 
 exist if the hops or grass is cooked.  That's not to say there aren't other 
 components as well but I am only addressing the uncooked-grassy-herbal taste 
 that is always and only noted with cold {dry} hopping.
 
 Pointing out that some great beers of the world have this taste, may give it 
 more respect but does not change its nature.
 
 js
 

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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 10:08:36 CST
From: jorgen at orson.mayo.EDU (Michael Jorgenson 5-5891)
Subject: Atlanta Brewpubs ?

	Hello, I'm going on a trip to Atlanta and would like to know
the name's and whereabouts of any brewpubs thereabouts. Also any 
suggestions on any of the local breweries worth visiting. Any reply 
will be greatly appreciated.
thanks in advance.
Michael A. Jorgenson
Mayo Clinic
jorgen at mayo.edu

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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 10:57:48 +0500
From: hogle at norm.crd.ge.com (Rich Hogle)
Subject: Honey Lager

Mike & Kristina  write of troubles with Papazian's Propensity Pilsener
Lager --
 
I've used that recipe (actually, your recipe with 6.5 # M&F) once or twice 
per year since I've been brewing (back when HBD was in the 100's) with 
excellent results. In fact, it is one of the few beers that my wife also
likes. In my case, it has come through crisp, clean, with nice body, and 
just a hint of honey flavor. 
In the glass, it was crystal clear, with a golden color.
It was nicely carbonated, but did not hold a head very well.  
I used to use 14g of Vierka lager yeast (dry) and more recently a liquid 
lagering yeast. Don't be discouraged - perhaps try a different brand of
honey (I think CP called for clover honey, some store brands are blends)
and/or different yeast.  
Rich 


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Date: Tue, 08 Mar 1994 11:47:31 -0500 (EST)
From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/ at mr.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: yeast,caps

Hi!
I need some help indetermining what to do with Wyeast 3056 Bavarian Wheat
lager.  I do not care for wheat beers and would like ti know what other
type beers it might be acceptable for.  I'm ready to brew this week so
prompt help would be appreciated.  Regarding the sterilization of bottle
caps.  I just put 1.5 cups of water in a pyrex pitcher, put in 50 caps and
microwave to a boil.  I never had problems with infection or bad seals due
to caps.

Andy Kligerman



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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 09:20:33 MST
From: chiz at atmel.com (Bob Chiz)
Subject: Growing and malting grain

HBD,

  Having just bought a house with a sizable piece of land, I figured now
was the time to finally growing my own hops.  The rhizomes should be planted
within the next few weeks.  But this got me thinking about possibly growing
and malting my own barley.  Does anyone know anything about this, or is there
a good reference book available ?

Thanks,
   Bob Chizmadia

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Date:         Tue, 08 Mar 94 10:42:36 CST
From: "Edward F. Loewenstein" <SNREDLOW at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Growing Hops

Greetings!
  Tis the season to tend your hops, or to begin planning that hop garden
you've always dreamed of.  The HBD has recently hosted numerous queries
concerning hop culture, I thought I'd add my own experience to the fray.
  First off, choose a spot in your garden that is well drained!  If your
soil is constantly saturated, you will rot your hops.  It should also be
in a sunny location, 5-7 hours of sun per day should do it.  Set up a
trellis to give the hop bines (yes, bines, not vines) plenty of room to
extend.  My own trellis is 20' tall, and my hops typically reach the top
of it before July 1st.  Keep the hops well fertilized.  At the height of
growth, the vines can put on several inches of growth a day; this
requires alot of nutrients.  Keep your hops well watered, they prefer a
moist, not wet soil.
  Now then, on to questions that have been posed.  Hops are dioecious
plants, which is to say that individuals are either male or female.
Typically, only female plants are cultured in a hop garden because we
are interested in the female flowers, cones, for brewing purposes.
Without male plants, the female flowers are never fertilized, and
therefore, do not produce seed.  This is also why hops are usually grown
from rhizomes (root cuttings).  This is a form of vegetative
reproduction and produces a plant genetically identical to the parent.
Plants grown from seed may turn out to be either male or female, so if
someone tries to sell, or give, you hop seed, smile and politely refuse.
  When trying to decide on the number of rhizomes to plant, I can only
make suggestions from my own experience, which by the way is based on
river bottom soil in central Missouri.  Several years ago I planted four
rhizomes, one each of cascade, chinook, nuggett and pearle.  All became
established and during the first growing season I averaged about
one-half pound of dry cones from each plant.  Since the plants have
matured, they now produce in the range of 1 to 2 1/4 pounds of cones per
year.  Which I am happy to say is enough for my purposes.
  I dry my cones by simply laying them out on newspaper for 3-4 days.
At that point I seal them in freezer bags and store in a chest freezer
at 0 degrees F.  I notice little loss of freshness over the course of
a year.
  In closing, I have found hops to be extremely easy to cultivate and
would urge anyone with a few square feet of soil to try.  It is just
one more aspect of homebrewing which you are able to do yourself and
come up with a final product which is truely unique to your brewery!

      Hope this helps,

Ed Loewenstein
SNREDLOW at MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU

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Date: Tue, 08 Mar 1994 10:46:51 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: "ACME" Coyote Cooker/ Woodruff/ Sucking Blowoff/ The Art of Brew


Must follow up on a schlew of e-mail requests here:

RE: The COYOTE Cooker  episode...

FWIW:   ACME => Coyote (as in Wyllie) => Roadrunner = cartoon = joke.  

Maybe I'm getting too old.  Who knows.  (guess my tongue wasn't stuck far
enuf out into my cheek!  "What channel are you watching?")

I purchased the beast at a local store: Smithfield Implement. 
I don't think they do mail order.  And it was a "sshpecial" sale.

The "CACHE COOKER" is from a local manufacturer. They do sell accessories
mail order (at least?), but not at SI's "Krazy Daze" Prices!  $$$$
    Cache Cooker (by Camp Chef) P.O. Box 4057, Logan, UT. 84323
        1800- 783-8347   801- 752-3922

                    No connexn, other than they are in my town. 
                    Plus, I bought one, which I now LOVE to brew on. 8>

If they do sell the units mail-order (they might??) the shipping would kill,
if you're anywhere other than next door.  30+ lbs/ unit.  
Hell- maybe I should take up a commercial venture and try a package
buy for netters....nah, shud finish thesis first...tug at shirt...chest out...


Check local outdoor/camping/outlet supply/brew stores....etc.

FWIW:  Cache Cooker by Camp Chef.  P.O. BOx 4057, Logan, UT. 84323
1800- 783-8347   801- 752-3922

John.-  Tongue in cheek!  - The Coyote - Wyllie

***
Rick Dante of  in%"rdante at ucsd.edu"  

RE:   Pasteurs S-loops...sterility at it's finest!   :)
 ...also...
Does anybody know anything about woodruff? What it's used for, how it's used,
what it tastes like?

*   Woodruff is an herb type of plant.  I haven't tried growing it (yet), but 
have used it in a wheat beer.  Tried to make that all special "Green Beer"
for St-Patties day - don't- cha know. <best irish accent imitation in effect>

Well, er, um... it was a fine beer, buut it had a color a bit resemblin' ya 
might say, some-tin' like  ... Pond water.... yeah, pond scum. That's eeit!

I made a tea of woodruff, and added some at bottlin'
I still have a 1/2 pint mason jar of the schtuff.  It's still sterile!
A whole two years later.  Might just have to try it this year again!
It ain't got no S-type lock on it like Loiu-ey used, but hey, he didn't use
a pressure cooker!  (:0>|

I also have some dried from a brew supply in Richland Wa  (Arlene's Flowers). 
If you can't find it elsewhere.  It's tough to describe the flavor. Almost 
"weedy/ flowery/ sweet grass" kind of flavor. Interesting and unique.
I'd bet if you could use some fresh- slightly dried woodruff you might impart
a greenish color, with better results than I. 

I may try some in a mead next.  That might be interesting, but wouldn't be 
ready by St. Patties.  Ah well.  
***
Ok, my vote  Steven Smith for the bunniest rebuttal to the "Sucking Blowoff"
response contest.  Anything involving dogs gets my vote :) 

One addendum: Don't forget the...gravity...

Keep your receiving vessel for the end of the tube BELOW the fermenter, or
you "could" start a siphon if there's a temp-gradient effect.
Get a long hose, wide diameter, and you won't draw in.

Also...if you have one of those 7 gal glass acid-carboys with the screw caps,
DON'T leave them on...for a while...even lightly screwed down, while the brew
cools.  Just put an airlock, w/ a blowoff. If a fermentation were to start in
the middle of the night it could clog up a lightly screwed cap, and build up
some SERIOUS presssure before you get to it in the am.  With a little luck,
it won't BLOW UP before you check it, but it could ...spew beer all over...
when you do open it.  Mind you...I would NEVER do anything like THAT!... 
                "golly no Mr. Peabody."

Even an airlock can clog with goo pretty easily, and be sent forward with
a bit of a thrust.  More than once have I had a "blast" of spew-age sent
to the ceiling.  Cause enough to lose a airlock "bubbler" piece underfoot
as one scours the brew room for the pieces of the airlock that when FLYING!
Just give it a blowoff for a day or two, then fit the airlock.

No problem, no mess, no fuss.  A scrubber for the inside of an airlock is nice

***
Anecdote:

Past weekend I went up to Star Valley, WY.  where a brewbuddies dad is 
building a house.  So we each overcharged our kegs with CO2 for the trip.
His a brown ale, mine a "99" golden/amber ale (munich-90, special B).

Dumped them in the snowbanks outside while we hung sheetrock, and build stud
walls.  Sneaked in a little ski-touring on the golfcourse. 

Visited "Uncle Tom" who had a house (cabin) nearby.  We brought our kegs, and
turned "the cousins" on to some homebrew. The concept was discussed, as the 
wares were samples, one had a homebrewer- friend from Houston, Tx. It was nice
to have such a portable source of brew, and opportunity to share the art.
Also to know that people are more intersted in trying brew beyond the 
average american swill-age.  There is some hope for America. 


                -|- COSMIC COYOTE BREWING -|- 
                      SLK6P at cc.usu.edu



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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 11:45:22 -0600 (CST)
From: Edward H Hinchcliffe-1 <hinch001 at maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: pilsner clone some answers and some questions


Hi,
     I am writing in reply to a post about problems with a Pilsner Urquell
clone from the NCJOHB. I have 5 gal. of this beer in my basement at 4 deg.
C as we (I) speak. It was constructed as follows:
     6.6 LBS NW Gold ME
     2 LBS Lt. Clover Honey (Lunds)
     1/2 LB Lt. Crystal Malt (steeped to boil)
     1.5 oz. N. Brewer Hop Pellets(boil-45 min.)
     0.5 oz. Saaz (boil 30 min.)
     0.5 oz. N. Brewer(boil 15 min.)
     0.5 oz. Saaz (steep <5min)
     1 Pkg. Wyeast Bohemian (real puffy, no futher starter)

     OG 1.061 (kinda high)
     primary 5 days at 55 F
     secondary 23 days (so far) at 40 F FG 1.016 and falling
I took a SG reading at day 22 in the secondary(1.016) and had a taste.
Young but pretty good; it hints at great things to come. The color is
alittle dark, but it is a dark gold, not an amber. The Wyeast is chewing
through the fermentables still. I plan on letting it lager as long as the
cold of late winter holds out, which in MPLS could be until MAY!!! Then I
will bottle and wait some more.
     So my opinion as to the troubles of the brewing pair is YES, your
yeast was not up to the task of eating all that honey and it got full and
is sleeping. Try the Wyeast and give it more time. I have no idea if the
Red Star will kick in in the bottle and make honey grenades and I don't
want to be at your house if it does. Maybe stick it back in the
cask cleanly and without too much oxygen and pitch the wyeast. Or you
could just open all of the bottles and have a party, albeit a flat one.

Good luck, e-mail me with any comments or suggestions on my clone
ted

BTW, questions-I am planning to dry-hop my 60 /Scottish ale with 1 oz.
Cascade. How does this sound? Too much? Not enough? OG 1.055, FG 1.018
5 gal. TIA
Edward H. Hinchcliffe (no letters after my name yet, but atleast I don't
have to use statistics for my thesis)



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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 10:32:09 PST
From: relay.hp.com!daver!nexgen!bart (Bart Thielges)
Subject: Overrun crown caps

My local homebrew shops (San Jose, California, USA)  have run out of 
overrun crown caps indefinitely.  These overrun caps are usually purchased 
from beverage vendors as surplus and are imprinted with the name of 
the product they were originally intended to cap.

Maybe I'm strange, but I'd rather cap my homebrew with these overruns.
Leave the "Real Beer" and "Have a Homebrew" caps to those who want a 
professional look.  I'd prefer to have my homebrew labelled with 
"Lime Rickey" or "Artificially Flavored Diet Raspberry Soda".

If you happen to know of a dealer who has these overrun caps and does mail
order, please mail information to me.  Mail replies to "bart at nexgen.com" 
(the return address on this message probably won't work). 

Thanks !

bart at nexgen.com

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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 13:42:45 EST
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: drilling glass question

I've seen the posts recently about drilling a hole in a carboy to put a
tap at the bottom.

My question is, after you've drilled a hole in your $20.00 carboy, how
are you going to get the nut inside the carboy and attach it to the tap?
(All the taps I've seen are put on this way).  Or, as my wife observed,
is the nut on the outside (holding the homebrew :-)?

Now to more constructive posts (groan)...
- --
Jim Grady             
grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com

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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 10:58:51 -0800
From: glent at falstaff.cache.tek.com (Glen Tinseth)
Subject: Boiling Hops and Wort Gravity


In Digest 1367 two different notes mentioned that boiling hops longer
than 60 minutes does not increase bitterness, or worse, even decreases
bitterness. This is wrong.

In a couple of early studies, there was some data that indicated that
iso-alpha acids were broken down with extended boil times. This info
was somehow frozen in time in the homebrew literature, and everyone,
myself include, followed the advice. More recent research has shown that
although most of the isomerization occurs in the first 45 minutes or so,
the chemical rearrangement continues well beyond that point. You certainly 
reach a point of diminishing returns at around 90 min. so there probably
isn't a reason to boil hops for longer than that.

On another subject in the same Digest, Spencer Thomas lists wort gravity
as a factor in alpha acid utilization. He mentions that Mark Garetz has
asserted that wort gravity is not an issue, despite anecdotal evidence to the
contrary. My position on this issue is that Spencer is right and Mark is 
wrong. The reason is obvious, once you think about it. The higher the
gravity of the wort, the more of everything in solution. Proteins, sugars, and 
all kinds of other stuff. When you brew a barleywine, especially all-grain, 
the hot break can be so huge it is scary. Iso-alpha acids are attracted to the
protein chunks and precipitate out with the break. The more protein, the more
hot break, the lower your alpha acid utilization is. This may or may not be
as big an issue with extract based high gravity boils, depending on how much
of the hot break has been removed in the extracting process. More research
needs to be done and at this point my dance card is full so how about it?

Someone out there with the wherewithall and time should do this experiment.
I'll be happy to help set it up and give any advice necessary. Let's make
this forum really cook. Collaborative research for the betterment of 
homebrewing! (Loud Cheers Echo Throughout the Room) Email me if you are 
interested and have an HPLC. 

Glenn Tinseth
tinsethg at ucs.orst.edu   <or>   glent at falstaff.cache.tek.com 

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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 13:04:39 -0600 (CST)
From: "J. Andrew Patrick" <andnator at Mercury.mcs.com>
Subject: Publist, yes, Publist again!

Acting upon John DeCarlo's "public service announcement" I obtained the
latest and greatest Publist from sierra.stanford.edu via anonymous FTP.

I have the following observations:
 - While it is true that the system date on the file is Nov 30, 1993, there is
  absolutely nothing IN the Publist itself to tell us when any given entry was
  last verified.  Scanning through the list, I found several entries for
  brewpubs and beer bars that I know to be defunct.  Now, of course I SHOULD
  send in my corrections, but see my next point.....

 - There is no mention of WHERE to send additions and corrections to the list
  mentioned in the Publist itself.  No wonder there's so much out-of-date
  stuff in there!

Now I know from previous dealings with the Publist that it has historically
been maintained by: jmellby at iluvatar.dseg.ti.com (John R. Mellby). I have sent
John a set of updates and a query as to why there is no longer an address
listed for additions and corrections in the list itself.  I am still waiting
for a reply to this last point.

In the meantime, there are a LOT of new brewpubs in the Midwest and Southwest
that aren't adequately reviewed in the current Publist. If you want information
on these, contact me on the HBU BBS Network, or send private e-mail.

|Sysop         |         Andrew Patrick          |       Founder|
|Home Brew Univ| AHA/HWBTA Recognized Beer Judge |Home Brew Univ|
|Midwest BBS   |  SW Brewing News Correspondent  | Southwest BBS|
|(708)705-7263 |Internet:andnator at genesis.mcs.com| (713)923-6418|



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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 15:25:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: California brewing (reviews, sorry Jeff)

After a hiatus of 2.5 years, I headed back to the breweries
of California, generally located within driving distance
of the SF bay area.  I dont want to clog the digest, but
I thought I would share a few observations and opinions on 
the breweries I visited.

Day 1:

Drive to Chico.  Stop at Sudwerks, watch what appeared to be
a new brewer being taught the trade by Karl (Eden(?).  Pretty
good versions of Maerzen, Pils, Lager.  Slight slufery house
flavor, but typical.  

Move on to Chico.  Suprise #1:  Sierra Nevada American Wheat
is online.  Im no fan of the style, but just like all the
ales made by SN, this ones good.  Im told the brewery is 
producing over 120,000 BBls and still growing.  New 400
BBl unitanks are on order, and rumor has it that SN lagers
will be no more.  They just brought out the "spring Bock",
in Feb!, and the summerfest is a big ?????  If you ask 
my opinion, stick to to what your best at, ales mate!  And
as always, the highlight for me is the wonderful Draft/draught
pale ale (only available at the brewery, and at a bit lower
ABV, a really poundable pale ale.  About the best from the
trip, a real shame you cant buy this beer nationally).

Day 2: Sacramento, River City. This is a new brewpub, opened
late last year.  Yes, Im biased, my best friend set up the 
brewing equipment and helped with recipe formualtion.  Very
good lagers, the helles/lager is good and hoppy, clean lager.
The pale ale uses East Kent GOldings to effect, but not to
extreme as some of us do.  I finally met Roy Rudebush (sp?),
he is one of the brewers.  Phil Moeller from Rubicon was 
there tanking up on a litre of the brew.  He informed me
that River City is one of the latest "Brewsterauants" to
open.  This means its trendy, fashionable with good food and
BTW, happens to brew beer.  I must admit he's right, but 
who cares, the beers good, and I regret not eating there.
They of course have the hottest California trend, brick 
oven pizza (finally something we beat them to on the right
coast, Ive been eating BOP across from Berthas in Fells Point
, Md for years).  

Head back to Sudwerks to try the HefeWeizen.  Can barely
squeeze in , another extremely successful Friday nite spot.
Weizen is good, not great.

Drive down to east bay, and hook up with Rich Steuven, aka
gak.  Rest up for a hard weekend (when your with gak, you 
better be rested!). 

Next installment: north to Ft. Bragg.

Good brewing,
Jim Busch


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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 94 16:37:23 EST
From: terfintt at ttown.apci.com (Terri Terfinko)
Subject: Sanitizing Options


I am trying to determine the differences between
some of the cleaners used for homebrewing.  Naturally
chlorine bleach is the most economical for cleaning
glass and plastic.  For stainless steel, I have used
B-Brite and the new No Rinse cleaners.  The one I am
most interested in understanding is Chlorinated  
Trisodium Phosphate CTSP.  This one seems to be more 
economical than the others.  I have located TSP in
the hardware store, but can't seem to find CTSP.

Is CTSP the chemical in B-Brite or the No Rinse cleaners?
How long should items be soaked in this solution to fully
sanitize?
Does anyone know of a source for CTSP?

Terry Terfinko

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Date: 08 Mar 1994 17:26:54 -0500 (EST)
From: MIKE ZEOLI <ZEOL4195 at splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: Ice Brewed is Better!

Date sent:  8-MAR-1994 17:09:26 
     Attending a college known for its beer drinking, I have become sort of 
a taste tester of many fine brews, both American and Canadian.  From my 
experiences I can say one thing:  ice brewed beer is definitely a superior 
beverage.  The beer that I have tasted includes Molson Ice and XXX, Labatts 
Ice and Maximum Ice, and the new beer to hit the market:  Budweiser Ice 
Draft.  Not only do these brews taste much better as far as flavor goes, 
but they also pack quite a strong punch(with the exception of Bud Ice       
Draft).  Triple X, my favorite of all these is very tasty and goes down 
rather smoothly.  What I would like to know is what some of the other ice 
brews taste like.  For example, I was particularly curious about Miller's 
new Ice House.  I have not heard much about it except that it has just 
recently hit the market.  Any information you can give me on any of the ice 
brewed beers would be greatly appreciated.
                                         Sincerely,
                                         Mike Zeoli

MIKE ZEOLI


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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 17:29:01 -0800
From: bguerin at orincon.com (Bob Guerin)
Subject: RE: Brewing non-alcohol beers

The term "non-alcoholic" when referring to beer is a misnomer.  Commercial
NA beers actually can contain up to 0.5% alcohol (listen for the disclaimer
when these products are advertised on TV or radio).  If Brian's friends are
alcoholics, it would be bad for them to consume a beverage containing any
alcohol at all.

As far as making one, I doubt that you could boil off all the alcohol.  The
yeast should all die at boiling temperature, but if they didn't, then
priming would allow the surviving yeast to create more alcohol.

Bob Guerin
(bguerin at orincon.com)



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Date: 8 Mar 1994 17:53:10 -0800
From: "Rick Violet" <rick_violet at powertalk.apple.com>
Subject: Drill holes in glass with a Sandblaster

An excellent method for making holes in glass is to use a sand blaster. 

Mask off the glass for about 6 inches around the future hole. Use several
layers of masking tape. Cut a hole in the masking tape, slightly smaller than
the final hole. Spray the exposed glass with the stream of sand until you
break through. Then angle the stream so as to strike the side of the hole,
i.e. aim for the glass to be removed, not the absence of glass. 

This process can take quite a while, so don't let your air compressor over
heat. As always use the right safety gear, like gloves & face mask. You may
want to fill the carboy with sand, packaging peanuts or something so the sand
won't scratch the other side of the carboy. Keep blasting until the hole is
as you want it. I have used this method for bottles, it may work well for
carboys too.

Hope this helps,
Rick Violet


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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 09:15:13 +0800
From: hpfcla.fc.hp.com!amdahl!oregon!hbaum (Michael Hohnbaum)
Subject: Re: growing hops

Chris Lovelace asks about growing hops.  
>   (stuff deleted)                   I want to grow at least two
> varieties.  They'll be growing in a row about 21 feet long, and I plan to
> put about 9 rhizomes along that row.  Does anyone see a problem with
> planting, say, 6 Cascades rhizomes and then 3 Perle Rhizomes? 

I had 5 hop plants of 4 different varities growing on a twenty foot row in
my garden in San Jose.  This will be their third season, however, I now live
in Portland, so I can not tell how they are doing.  If I was still there,
I would have dug out at least two of the plants, because there was not enough
room.  The books I read suggested planting hops 6 to 8 feet apart, but I 
went with 4 feet.  What happens is the roots grow and spread horizontally 
underground.  After a few years there are shoots coming up along the entire
20 foot stretch and it is hard (impossible) to tell what shoots are from 
which plant.  Note that the roots don't understand the linear nature of rows
and spread away from the row also.  Thus I had hop shoots coming out of my
strawberries, three feet away.

In Chris's case he is planning on planting only two varieties.  What I would
recommend is to plant one Perle Rhizome at one end of the row, then two or
three Cascade Rhizomes with the first being at least 8 feet away from the
Perle.  Since it will not be necessary to differentiate the Cascades from 
each other, they could probably be planted closer than 8 feet from each other.
I would save the money and not plant more than 2 or 3 Rhizomes, as after the
first year the roots will have spread over pretty much the entire row.

I had excellent success growing Rhizomes obtained from Freshhops versus those
obtained from the local brewshop.  Cascades were the biggest producer with
over 12 ounces (dried) the first year, and over two pounds the second year.
Mt. Hood hops were also good producers.  The Hallertauer and Tettenger grew
great vines, but only put out about two ounces each.

As far as drying goes, I made a screen that fit over the bathtub in the spare
bathroom, and spread the hops on there to dry.  It seemed like a good spot as
it had no direct sun, but good venilation.  If more space was necessary, I was
planning on building another screen/frame with 18" legs to set above the screen
sitting on the edge of the tub.  I imagine that this would work for multiple
layers.  The tub location only works if you have a spare tub, or don't mind
not bathing for a few weeks in August/September.

                   Michael Hohnbaum  hbaum at amdahl.com

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Date: Tue, 8 Mar 1994 22:21:35 -0700 (MST)
From: thomas ciccateri <tciccate at unm.edu>
Subject: Woodruff/Yankee Brew News


	For a first-hand look at woodruff's contribution to a beer's 
flavor profile, check out the Woodruff Ale from San Andreas Brewing Co., 
CA.  I think they also experiment with that spice at Bison brewpub in 
Berkeley, CA.  I found the flavor very distinct and "mellow".
	For info on the Yankee Brew News try Brasseur Publications in 
Boston, MA. at (617)846-1707.  

	Tom Ciccateri
	University of New Mexico - Hitchhiker on the Information Superhighway
	Training and Learning Technologies Div.
	tciccate at carina.unm.edu


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1368, 03/09/94