FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  re: Broken bottle when capping! (Dick Dunn)
  Mint Mead? or Beer? (Jim Sims)
  Thomas Hardy Clone (all-grain) (Stephen P Klump)
  Home Kegging System (rprice)
  Hop Utilization and High Gravity Boil (GNT_TOX_)
  Re: How many shoots? ("Edward F. Loewenstein")
  single vs 2 stage fermentation (Shawn M Landry)
  I can't believe they're not IBUs (Darren Aaberge)
  post, part 1/1 (Gregg Tennefoss)
  re: Busted while Bottling... ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
  Priming with dried malt extract ("PETER WILLIAMS")
  RE:MASHING (greg.demkowicz)
  Thanks....I crave for more information. (EVERSTEN)
  My weizenbier (GNT_TOX_)
  Norm Pyle's Questions (Mark Garetz)
  Further "Ice Beer" Ruminations. (Ash Baker)
  Re:  Broken bottle when capping! (mgerard)
  extract recipes/beginner Q's/Stuck ferment? (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  info and subscription (pyroarts)
  Maple Syrup/Sap In Beer (Shafer, George N.)
  Do deer eat hop plants? (Dru Sutton)
  AHA Style Guidelines Online? (npyle)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 15 Mar 94 23:53:28 MST (Tue)
From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: re: Broken bottle when capping!

Thomas Aylesworth writes about a capping problem:
> ...on the third to last
> bottle, the neck broke in my capper!...

So it sounds like most of the bottles worked OK; this is in favor of the
capper being OK.

> half refillable bar bottles and half non-refillable microbrew bottles
> (Sam Adams, Celis, Dominion, etc.).  The one that broke was one of
> the non-refillables.  Also, my capper is one of the double-lever kinds.

The double-lever capper does grab the neck; a floor model doesn't do that
so it's easier on the bottle.  Still, the double-lever doesn't pull all
that hard.

> I was just starting to become convinced that the non-refillable brown
> long necks were just as good as the others, especially after reading
> it in a Zymurgy article in the current issue, but now I'm not so sure.

The best you'll get is anecdotal evidence, of course...but FWIW, all the
evidence I've gathered (self and brewfriends) says the non-returnable
longnecks work fine.

> Does anyone out there agree with me that it was probably the bottle?

Yes, but that's still not an indictment of that *style* of bottle, more
likely only the particular bottle.  Remember that even commercial breweries
have an occasional broken bottle--very rare, of course, but it does happen.
Possibilities:  Bottle was misshapen or weak to start with.  Bottle had
been whacked enough to start a crack.

If your capper has metal jaws without the plastic inset on the neck-gripper,
check to see if you've built up a burr around the jaws.  I found it happens
with mine after a few hundred cappings, and it needs to be dressed a bit.
A machinist's scraper, burnisher, or (with care) half-round file will let
you knock off the burr and chamfer it slightly.  It only needs a tiny bit.
- ---
Dick Dunn    rcd at eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd    Boulder, Colorado USA
   ...Mr Natural says, "Get the right tool for the job!"

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Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 08:15:25 EST
From: sims at scra.org (Jim Sims)
Subject: Mint Mead? or Beer?

 The local grocery has freah mint leaves. I _love_ mint and am
wondering about brewing a mint mead. Any ideas on how much mint to
use per gallon of water/lb of mead? 

 I usually boil the water, etc for 10-15 minutes, remove from heat,
add the honey and let it steep 20 minutes before chilling and
pitching yeast. I'm imagining i'd add the mint leaves along with the
honey. 

 Any easy way to sanitize the leaves? I'm guessing i'd treat them like
fruit i've added to the secondary - rinse with NAmeta-bi-sulfite, or
whatever that stuff is in Campden tabs....

thanks,
jim

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Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 9:08:45 EST
From: Stephen P Klump <sklump at magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Thomas Hardy Clone (all-grain)

Howdy all,

In response to Troy Downing`s request for Thomas Hardy's ale,
I will give my recipie.
The distinction of TH`s is that "pineapple-ester" flavour
that is found nowhere else.  My recipie does give that aroma...

For a 3 gallon batch:

15 lbs pale-ale malt (M&F from England)
 2 lbs lt brown sugar
Hops: Chinook for boil   ca 25HBU
      Fuggles for finish ca 1 oz 2 mins
      Chinook 1/8 Dry hop
      Fuggles 1/4 Dry hop

The hopping is from memeory as I dont have my notebook with me.
(not that it would help either :)

Mash:
15 qts water
mashin 130 raise to 158 F.
Hold for 1.5 h
Sparge with 30 qts at 170 F.

Add gypsum 1 tsp.

Boil FOREVER (about 6 hours)
add bittering hops 60 min before end of boil
(you have to figure out when that is based on your boiling rate,
I had a cloud of fog in my house for 3 days after this boil off)

Wort should be 3.5-4 gallons gravity approx 1.130-1.145

Yeast: 1028 wyeast
After 7 days,
rack into 5 gallon carbouy and pitch champagne yeast
let ferment 4-6 days, then rack into 3 gallon carbouy (if you
dont have one, flush a 5 gallon with dry ice to remove oxygen
Dry hop with hop bag for 2 weeks.
remove hop bag, let sit additional month.

Bottle: I had very little carbonation - add some champagne yeast
when bottling.  Use cornsugar to prime 1/3 cup.

NOTE: this recipie won 1st prize in the barley wine category at a local
competion (scored a 42) and would have won best of show if it had
been carbonated (judges' comments)

Also, I repeated this recipie using crystal malt instead of br sugar,
and it did not have the pineapple flavour  :(
Howver, I was able to take a SG 1.149 (first batch was without hydrometer)

My first batch came out the color of a pale ale, the second was dark brown
could have been the crystal...i`ll let you know when I make it a third
time...

Cheers!
Stephen

    Chemist for Hire        | Decadence requires application!
Will Recrystalize for Food! |                          -R J Green
****************************| The average dog is nicer than
Klump.2 at osu.edu             |     the average person.  -A Rooney

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Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 09:13:41 -0500
From: rprice at cbmse.nrl.navy.mil
Subject:  Home Kegging System

Corey Janecky writes How much can I expect to have to spend for a
home kegging system.

I have tried pony kegs,  and the full tap/CO2 setup, the common British
Keg system with CO2 bottles and the "party keg" system, with brew king
dispenser.
I love the party keg system, the size of each container is 5 liters (about a
weeks supply of pints for me and the misses, beer bread, steak
and ale pie, guests etc.(on average).
The entire system to do about 25 liters of brew should run you less then
$50.00, if you purchase the cans empty.  They fit on the shelf of the
reefer and don't take up much more than a bottle of milk.  So the other
half doesn't get too upset.  I prime the kegs with about 3 tablespoons of
invert syrup and seem to get a nice finish.  I use the small CO2 squibs as
the large ones make my ales too high in gas.  

Taking along homebrew to parties is very easy, and the "kegs" are easy
to keep clean.  

An added bonus here is that you can also buy a range of German Beers
in these kegs and they range about $14.00 a keg in our area.  I also can
picked up the dispensor at our local store and they stock the CO2 squibs.

This is cheap, easy to work with, portable for parties, and overall
pleasing to the other half for it doesn't get in the way.  I only open one
keg at a crack, so the others just hang out and age till needed.  
You can also pruchase the system from American Brewmaster in
Raleigh, NC (usual disclaimer).  Another advantage is that if you want to
try a range of recipie variations you can do so in 5 liter batches, and
devote a keg to each without having many problems.  

I just hate to clean and bottle beer when I can do it easily with a party
keg.   
You can try it out for $15.00 by purchase of a keg, which includes a
hand air pump, not the best way but not bad, then if you feel like
investing further you simply purchase more cans (full or empty at about
$5.00) and the CO2 based dispenser for about $25.00.

Happy Kegging !



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Date:     Wed, 16 Mar 94 10:10 EST
From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:  Hop Utilization and High Gravity Boil

I can see mark Garetz's opinion that the gravity of the boiling wort
does not affect alpha acid utilization.  The alpha acids in wort are
not water soluble, and in thew wort they are isomerized.  You have to
realize that neither the wort nor the boil isomerize the alpha acids,
it's direct heat!  Once the alpha acids are isomerized, they are water
soluble and go right in.  Sure the higher gravity boil has more stuff
in it, but the amount utilization lost due to high gravity has got to
be very small.  If you're that worried about it, cover the brew kettle
at the end of the boil and let it sit a good 15 minutes for the rest
of the iso-alpha acidsto go into solution.

The important thing to remember is that wort gravity does not affect
the formation of iso-alpha-acids, the amount of heat does.  The only
thing that wort gravity will affect is the iso-alpha-acids going into
solution, which can be modified by leaving the stuff sit for a while
before turning on the wort chiller.

Andy Pastuszak
Philadelphia, PA


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Date:         Wed, 16 Mar 94 09:06:25 CST
From: "Edward F. Loewenstein" <SNREDLOW at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Re: How many shoots?

Hops, more hops, I truely love this time of year!!!

  Rich Larsen asked about the number of hop bines to allow to develop
during the second year since establishment.

  FWIW, I am not a commercial hop grower, but I am a research forester
and therefore I hope, know something about plants in general.  That said,
you be the judge of the following advice.

  More bines = more leaf area;  more leaf area = more photosynthate
production; photosynthate = stored energy.

  Plants use their stored energy for three things: 1) respiration
(maintenance of existing tissue), 2) growth/storage (shoots and roots),
3) reproduction.  As hop growers/homebrewers, we are primarily
interested in #3, however, a plant will not invest energy in
reproduction (in most cases), if it does not have the necessary
resources for #1.  In a plant like hops, the storage function is
supplied by the root system since the shoots die back to the ground
each year.  Therefore, until the plant is well established with a
vigorous, healthy, large root system, my suggestion is to train each
and every bine that appears so long as you can do this without
overcrowding (self shading).  Once you have a good root system you can
then reduce the number of bines you allow to grow so that the stored
carbohydrates in the root system are not used for large amounts of
vegetative growth, but are utilized for cone production (reproduction).

Hope this helps,

  Ed
SNREDLOW at MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU

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Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 10:25:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Shawn M Landry <smlandry at christa.unh.edu>
Subject: single vs 2 stage fermentation

I've been brewing for about six years and have always used single stage 
fermentation.  With some exceptions, I have been very happy with the beer 
I've brewed.  I now keg my beer using the standard soda kegs and the 
quality of my brew has improved even more.  

Some day I want to experiment much more with mashing and other 
brewing techniques,but right now the small kitchen with wooden floors in my 
apartment somewhat prevent me from wanting to make a real mess.  The 
single stage fermentation then right into the keg makes little mess and 
good beer.

Can anyone convince me why I should use a double stage fermentation process?

Thanks,

+=====================================+======================================+
|	Shawn Landry                  |   E-Mail:SMLandry at christa.unh.edu    |
|	UNH Recycling Office          |   Fax:   (603) 862-0139              |
|	Grounds & Roads Dept.         |   Phone: (603) 862-3100              |
|	Durham,  NH   03824           |                                      |
+=====================================+======================================+


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Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 08:51
From: DRA.SMTMHS%smtmhs at sharpwa.com (Darren Aaberge)
Subject: I can't believe they're not IBUs

A while back Norm Pyle had mentioned that Byron Burch gives hop utilization 
numbers for Dry
Hopping (something like 5%).  Burch states in his book that he bases his 
utilization numbers 
on the method used by the American Society of Brewing Chemists.  If I 
remember right, at the
time it was thought that the ASBC measures IBUs and does not calculate them. 
 Anyway, in the
book "Scotch Ale" by Greg Noonan it states:

     Commercial brewers measure the bitterness in the finished beer to avoid 
inaccuracy
     introduced by these variables.  International Bittering Units (IBUs) 
measure isomerized
     alpha acids; Bitterness Units (BUs) measure the total bittering 
substances, which
     includes oxidized beta acids.  The latter is the method used by the 
American Society
     of Brewing Chemists.  It is more accurate because it measures the 
broader spectrum of
     bittering substances, and thus permits more exact repetition from brew 
to brew.

So, I believe that Burch must be accounting for some amount of oxidized beta 
acids in the
hops used for dry hopping (are oxidized beta acids soluable without being 
boiled?).  Of 
course, this may be totally useless to homebrewers if we cannot measure the 
amount of 
oxidized beta acids in our hops.  Any comments?

Darren Aaberge 


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Date: Mon, 7 Mar 94 14:52 EST
From: greggt at infi.net (Gregg Tennefoss)
Subject: post, part 1/1


#!/bin/sh
#
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# Created on Mon Mar  7 14:52:26 EST 1994 by mail-bin, revision 2.1.
#
# To decode with /bin/sh, remove everything before the /bin/sh and feed
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#
# If you do not have /bin/sh or unix, you may decode by removing
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#
part=1
pfile=post
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sed -e '/^BEGIN/d' -e '/^END/d' << \End_of_Section > $pfile.$part
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3($XX,4X at ("  at ("  at ("  +BXN+BXN
 
end
END-------------- post ------------ part 1/1 ---
End_of_Section
size=`wc -c $pfile.$part | awk '{ print $1 }'`
if [ $size != $psize ]; then
    echo Length mismatch for uuencoded part $part \($size != $psize\).
    exit 1
fi
echo $file, part $part extracted.

if [ `echo $pfile.[0-9]* | wc -w` = 1 ]; then
    echo All uuencoded parts of $file extracted, uudecoding...
    cat $pfile.* | uudecode
    if [ $? -gt 0 ]; then
	echo Error encountered when uudecoding pieces...
	exit 1
    fi

    echo $file successfully uudecoded.  Removing uuencoded pieces.
    rm $pfile.[0-9]*
fi
exit 0

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Date:     Wed, 16 Mar 94 12:02:58 EST
From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616" <wagnecz at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  re: Busted while Bottling...

 	Just thought I'd add to the bottle capper discussion.  I have
a Bench capper (arbor style), which I chose for the following reasons:

	1. I don't like the idea of making what in a worse case
scenario can be "point contact loading" on a material like glass.
(Wad he say???)  The lever cappers that I've seen essential grip
the underside of cap area using two semi-circles.  Any mismatch or
out of round condition on either of these two semi circles (or the 
bottle for that matter) reduces the maximum contact area from a circle
to at worse jsut several points on a circle.  The arbor, on the other
hand, applies the load across the entire base of the bottle, and reduces
the force per unit area (more evenly distributes the load).  All else
is the same (e.g. the same contact is made on the cap-side of both presses).

	2. Dealing with different size bottles is not that bad if
approached properly.  I use about 80% non-returnables from the town
recycling center.  You will find that the people who run these centers,
as soon as they find out why you want their bottles, are extremely
receptive ("Hey, make sure you come back on thursday, that's when we
get the most brown!).  I've found about four sizes that range from the
Hienecken (sp?) as the smallest to the John Courage type (largest).
Arrange your bottles by size beforehand!  Then if you have to adjust
for size by the case, for example, it's not as bad.  Mine's easy to
adjust anyhow, pull a pin, slide up/slide down, re-lock pin. 

	3. Bottle quality.  I worry (er hum, am concerned) more 
about the quality of the individual bottle than whether or not
its a returnable or not.  I will Sh*t-Can any bottle that shows any
nick in the cap area, even if its a pinhead-sized spot.  ANY DEFECT
IS A POTENTIAL STRESS RISER (crack initiation site) and should be
discarded.  Look for any spot that does not exhibit the smooth
glassy appearance of melted glass (telltale is a white dull spot).


		Hope this helps-

			Glen

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Date:         Wed, 16 Mar 1994 13:16:44 AST
From: "PETER WILLIAMS" <peter.williams at acadiau.ca>
Subject:      Priming with dried malt extract

I have tried priming with dried malt extract rather than corn sugar in 
the hope that I would get a more pleasing carbonation. I consulted 
Papazian's book on the matter and used the amount suggested there. 
The result was a rather flat beer. I have to admit that I tried this with 
dried malt extract purchased at the local health food store.

1) Is this type of extract any different than what I would get from my 
homebrew supplier?

2) Can anybody suggest a suitable amount to try next time?

3) Does priming with malt make a significant difference to the quality 
of the brew?

4) Any other comments on this are welcome.

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Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 12:33:28 -0500 [EST]
From: greg.demkowicz at circellar.com
Subject: RE:MASHING



Jim writes:
>What is the best way to implement a mashing vessel using a 15.5 SS
>keg. The three options I am considering are:
>
>     1) False Stainless Steel bottom
>     2) A copper ring that sits in the bottom and has small slits in it.
>     3) An "Easy Masher" type installation with a screen.
>
>I will be using propane type cookers for a heat source and I am concerned
>about scorching. Should I not be adding heat to maintain temp or during
>mashout ? How do people do step infusion with a propane cooker ?
>What is the maximum BTU rating I should look for when buying a cooker,
>what is the minimum.

   For my 15.5 mashing vessel, I used a high speed air grinder to cut a 
13-14" hole in the top of the keg. (You can also use a hacksaw blade, but
it will take you 4 hours, or bring the keg to a local auto muffler shop,
and for $15, they will cut it for you). Do not cut off the keg
handles! You will need them to lift the keg! Next, drill a hole in 
the side of the keg, as close to the bottom as possible. Make the 
hole suitable for a 1/2" pipe thread, SS, drain pipe. Allow for 
about 2" of exposed pipe, BOTH inside and outside the keg. Either mig weld
in place, or secure with SS nuts, and Teflon washers (welding works best, 
see the past HBD's for some hints). An easymasher type of screen can
be fitted around the piece of pipe on the inside of the keg, and held in
place with an all SS hose clamp. Do not use a false bottom (unless 
you are doing a RIMS setup.) as you will surley scorch the wort on
the bottom.
   If you are doing a RIMS, only  a perforated SS plate,
at least .0625" thick, and at least .085" holes, for the false bottom.
Anything less, including just a SS screen will not support the suction
created by the RIMS pump.
Magnetic drive pumps, such as the TEEL can be obtained from Grainger
as p/n: 1P677 for $81.32. Of course a speed control is also needed
You will also have to move the drain pipe to the bottom center,
perpendicular to the bottom of the keg, for best results.

On the drain pipe outlet, a ball valve w/100% opening works well. 

You will most likley have to insulate the keg w/the same material 
used on water heaters (about $6.00 from Home Depot). BE CAREFUL TO 
AVOID THE FLAME FROM BURNING THE INSULATION!!! Use only low heat.

Recirculate the wort for step mashing.

An adjustable 160,000 BTU heater works well for boiling, and can 
be set low enough for Mashing.

>When using a false bottom, should you try to minimize the area under
>the SS plate by using a plate that rests in the bottom curved portion
>of the keg? (I have found some 10" SS dinner plates in a camping store

A 14" dia. false bottom will require 1.75 qts. of foundation water.

This system has worked well for me, after much trial and error.

Standard disclaimers apply. Don't do/use this without experianced supervision!

Greg

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Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 12:21:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: EVERSTEN at VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU
Subject: Thanks....I crave for more information.


I'd like to thank everyone for responding to my "how do I get started?" 
listing.  It pleases me to know that home brewers are such a helpful bunch of
guys.  One thing I'd like to get more info. on is addresses for shops selling
supplies (your favorite shop with a helpful guy to sell a first timer a
kit).  I live in Winona, Minnesota.  I'll list my actual home address as well
in case there are any capitalist brewer/shop owners who want to jump on the
bandwagon.

Thanks,

Tad Salyards
420 Main Street
Winona, Mn 55987
eversten at vax2.winona.msus.edu

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Date:     Wed, 16 Mar 94 13:44 EST
From: <GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:  My weizenbier

I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my question on the low
O.G. of my wort.   Turns out I didn't mix well at all.

Anyway, I need to share my observations on the new Wyeast Bavrian
Yeast(the baby without the smack pack.)  Boy does baby go.  I hooked
up a blow off and put it in a 1 liter bottle that has a 4 1/2
diameter.  Yesterday there was 1 inch of yeast sediment in the blowoff
and the bottle was full!  After 4 days I thought the beer would have
fallen back down so I took off the blowoff and put on a fermentation
lock.  2 hours later the lock was blown off and there was foam all
over the floor.  Great clove and banana scent!  This yeast just keeps
on truckin! Anyone have similar experience with this yeast?

Andy Pastuszak
Philadelphia, PA
INTERNET: GNT_TOX_%ALLOY.BITNET at PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU
BITNET:   GNT_TOX_ at ALLOY.BITNET


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Date: Tue, 15 Mar 94 15:05:14 PST
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com>
Subject: Norm Pyle's Questions

Norm Pyle asks the next obvious question,  paraphrasing,
"OK Garetz, if the boil gravity doesn't matter, then why
do extract brewers that do partial boils get worse
utilization?"

The reason lies in the fact that hops are utilized less
efficiently at higher hopping rates.  When you do a partial
boil, your effective hopping rate during the boil is much
higher than it would be if you were doing a full boil.

An example will make this clearer:  If I put 50 grams of 5%
alpha hops in 20 liters of wort, I have added 2.5 grams of
alpha acids or 2500 milligrams, total.  In milligrams per
liter (mg/l) that is 125 mg/l of alpha acids (2500/20=125).
If I put in the same amount of hops but cut the boil volume
in half, I have now doubled my hopping rate to 250 mg/l.
And the hops will be utilized less efficiently at 250 mg/l
than at 125 mg/l.

So even though we are applying a correction for the higher
wort gravity (when we use Rager's formula) we are really 
applying a correction factor for the higher hopping rate.
The good news is that the factor Rager chose seems to work
for most beers and brewers, even though it works for the wrong
reasons.  So for full volume boils where the beer has a
high SG, the gravity correction does it's job correctly.  For
partial boils where the gravity will be diluted to normal SGs
the factor corrects for the high hopping rate during the boil.
It is when these two factors combine (high hopping rate and
high SG) that the correction factor should be off the mark.

These are my interpretations of the data in the only reference
I could find on the subject ("The Losses of Bitter Substances
During Fermentation" by Laws, McGuinness and Rennie, published
in the Journal of the Institute of Brewing, Vol. 78, 1972) and
the various studies that show poorer utilization as hopping rate
increases and applying it to the problem of why Rager's formula
works when it shouldn't.

I think it was Norm that also questioned the "oxidation" of the
iso substances since there is a CO2 blanket there (theoretically).
I too thought this was weird, but that's what the paper (above)
states.  They claimed to have spectroscopic evidence that oxidation
was taking place.  The explanation may lie in the fact that we are
talking about an effect that happens in the first 18 hours of active
fermentation, when there would still be a lot of oxygen in the head
space and also in the wort itself.  This is just conjecture on my
part.  Norm also questioned if they used open fermenters.  I looked
and couldn't find any mention of open vs. closed fermenters, but I
also might have missed it.  I would say a good bet is that they were
because they were doing a lot of skimming, sampling and stirring back
of the head.

Mark

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Date:         Wed, 16 Mar 94 14:45:32 EST
From: Ash Baker <3AVHB at QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject:      Further "Ice Beer" Ruminations.

Lessee... as I understand it, the big breweries are "ice brewing" their beer,
that is, lowering the temperature, taking out the ice crystals, and ending up
with a beer with more concentrated flavour and alcohol.  Even forgetting
their blatant lies about having "invented" the process, I wonder if anyone has
considered this: THEY'RE ALL BREWED FROM A HIGH-GRAVITY ANYWAY.  Sorry about
the shouting, but there it is.  Labatt's makes a batch from, say, 1073, and
gets something with 8% alcohol, by volume.  Then they dilute it to 5%, _and
then "ice-brew" it back up to 6%_.  Am I the only one who suspects that this
is a little more trouble than the majors would be willing to go to?  If you
want a beer with more concentrated (adjunct) flavours and higher alcohol,
would you go to the expense of "ice"ing it, after it had been diluted down from
a high gravity, or would you just dilute it less and lie to the customer?
There's something fishy going on here, folks.

Ash Baker (3avhb at qucdn.queensu.ca)

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Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 11:50:09 -0500
From: mgerard at engin.umich.edu
Subject: Re:  Broken bottle when capping!

I have had a refillable 'blow up' after capping.  It split
down the seam and all the beer leaked out   : (
I didnt see it happen but there was no broken glass
so I don't think it would pose a real safety threat.  


Mike


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Date: 16 Mar 94 20:58:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: extract recipes/beginner Q's/Stuck ferment?

Todd writes:
>Here are some recipes I just got from my local brew supply store for extract
>brewers.  I thought readers might like these..  I have not tried all of these
>yet myself.  These recipes were develop by the owner of the homebrew supply

<snip>

<recipes deleted to save space>
>BECK'S LIGHT
>BECK's DARK
>BASS ALE
>KILLIAN'S RED
>PETE'S WICKED ALE
>SAM ADAMS
>HARP
>SARANAC

Three comments:

1. Since the %AA of the hops were not listed, the resulting beer could
vary quite widely.  I suggest that you ask your HB retailer to give the
%AA of the hops in the future.

2. Fermentation temperatures are not given.  Again, a recipe that made
Bass Ale at 68F might make Pete's Wicked Lager at 50F (if the yeast
you use can handle it).

3. The strain of yeast is not listed.  It is possible, that the beers that
were made with these recipes tasted just like the originals, but would
taste completely different if a different yeast was used.  In my opinion,
yeast plays the most important role in the flavor of a beer except for
the obvious (additions of black malt to a pale beer, etc.).  I urge you
to try the same recipe with two different yeasts and see if you don't
agree.  The difference will be much greater than you think.

>Doppelbock
>
>1 can Ireks Amber
>2 cans Unhopped Amber Extract
>1 lb Crystal Malt
>2 cups Chocolate Malt
>1 cup Roasted Barley
>4 1/2 oz Hallertau hops
>lager yeast
>
<snip>

I'm afraid I must strongly disagree that this will make anything resembling
a Doppelbock.  The Roasted Barley is completely out of place for this
style.  I don't think any German breweries would put unmalted barley, roasted
or not, in a beer.

*********
Jack Boatman writes:
>I will be using a 5 gallon carboy, closed w/blow-off, single stage process,
>starting with a Coopers real ale kit (3.75#) and an additional 3# of bulk
>laegander light (syrup). This "recipe" was suggested by the brew supply store.
>I plan to ignore the instructions in the kit since they don't agree with what
>I've read and call for lots of white sugar. I do not plan to use any sugar
>(except some corn sugar for pitching to bottles).

If you add unhopped syrup and do not add additional hops, the hops in the
Coopers kit will not provide enough bitterness to make this a balanced beer.
The kit works when you add corn sugar (I've tasted it this way and it makes
a surprisingly good brew, actually) because the corn sugar will not add
any residual sweetness -- just alcohol.

>1) What's the best way to store my 3# of bulk malt extract syrup since I won't

In the fridge.

>2) Does it make much difference how much water is used in the wort considering
>   that I'll be adding the wort to water anyways? Obviously I'm not going to
>   try and boil syrup; I'll probably add about 1.5 gallon water - my concern is
>   how do I make sure that I don't put too much water in the carboy, and then
>   not have enough room in the carboy for all of the wort.

Add some water to the carboy, add the wort and then top up.  I suggest that
you should pre-boil and then chill your cold water to sanitize it and to
boil off chlorine.

>3) I know that fermenting is sensitive to temperature, but how senstive?
>   My basement seems to be about 58 degrees F. Is this too cold? What about
>   right after after bottling? What about storage?

It will be too cold for making an ale.  I've never fermented the Coopers yeast
that cold and it might actually work, but if you're trying to make ale, then
you should ferment between 60 and 70F.

>4) How do I get a hydrometer sample out of the carboy? siphon? Should I worry
>   about SG for my first batch, or should I just let it blow a couple days and
>   then let it ferment a couple weeks?

Yes, siphon or they make something that looks like a glass turkey baster
without the bulb -- you sanitize it, dip it in, cover the top with your
thumb and then remove your sample.  I don't use gravity as my deciding
factor when to bottle except for very strong beers, like Barleywine.
With a standard gravity beer, I just wait for the airlock to slow to
1 bubble every 2 min and then bottle.  If you don't have any wide temperature
swings and if you don't have a very low malt beer (i.e. lots of corn sugar)
the yeast should begin, ferment and finish without any problems or
intervention from the brewer.

********
Tad writes:
>1)  Is it possible to brew a fine beer at home (up to my european standards)?

Yes, and better too.  With experience, homebrewers can brew better beer than
many commercial breweries throughout the world.

>2)  How much would a good kit cost?  What would be best for my desires?

The Equipment should cost between $35 and $70 depending on how advanced the
equipment (plastic or glass?  does it have a hydrometer? etc).  Ingredients
for 5 gallons (48 - 12ounce bottles) should cost between $12 and $30 depending
mostly on the amount of malt in the kit.  Allgrain batches, by the way,
can cost as little as $5 if you buy in bulk, but I suggest you begin with
extract.

>3)  Where do I purchase supplies?  Do you have any mail order addresses?

Local stores, I feel a better, assuming that the retailer knows something
about brewing (there are a lot that don't). There is a mailorder FAQ, I
believe.

********
David writes:
>courage to start my first batch.  I am using a M&F premium kit to
>which I have added (per the instructions) 1.5 lbs of Amber DME.
>I boiled 2 gallons of wort, then added cold water up to 5 gallons
>in the fermentor.  After cooling I added to supplied yeast by
>sprinkling on top and stiring.  
>The OG was 46.  I ptiched the yeast at 9pm, and by the next 
>morning, it was really bubbling.  Vigorous fermentation continued
>for 2 days then slowed down.  I tookn SG reading 4 days into the the ferment 
>I took an SG reading that read a little over 20.  This beer should have a FG 
>of 10.  
>2 days later the SG is right at 20.  Is this beer stuck?  

Probably not -- the DME you added was probably Laaglander or "Dutch" and
these two "brands" of DME have very high levels of unfermentatbles -- i.e.
they will give you a high FG.

>It is still very dark (it is supposed to be an amber ale).

Beer will always look darker in the fermenter.

>There is some gunk stuck on the sides of the fermenter (It is a
>plastic bucket with an air lock on top).  Is this yeast, and if 
>so does it need to be reincorporated into the wort.  I assume it
>got there when the krasen (sp?) died down.

It is mostly bits of protein, but there is some yeast in there.  No, you
do not want to re-introduce it to the beer.

>If the beer stays at 20, will it be drinkable?

It will be a bit on the sweet side.  Taste it.  If it seems *really* too
sweet, then you could add some isomerized hop extract at bottling time
to raise the bitterness and balance some of the sweetness.

Al.

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Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 16:15:13 EST
From: pyroarts at aol.com
Subject: info and subscription

I would like information on your service and subscription info as well.

I would also like to post any recipes I have to your service.

Thanks,

Jim Stevenson

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Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 16:22:13 EST
From: G.Shafer at mailstop.telesat.ca (Shafer, George N.)
Subject: Maple Syrup/Sap In Beer


There have been several references to using Maple Sap in beer.

One book recommends that you use a least 1 gallon of syrup for a 5 gallon
batch. It tried this and it was a little strong. I cut back to 0.5 gallons,
which tasted about right to me.

To make 1 gallon of maple syrup, takes about 40 gallons of sap. So using 5
gallons of sap to make beer would be the equivalent of about 0.13 gallons
of syrup. I suspect the flavour would not be a strong as you might like.


 ---- g.shafer at mailstop.telesat.ca ---



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Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 13:04:55 -0800
From: Dru Sutton <dru at homebrew.xilinx.com>
Subject: Do deer eat hop plants?

I have just moved to an area where the deer roaming freely.  I am 
planning to plant some hops in a sunny open spot.  Do the deer enjoy 
eating the young plants?  Anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks,
Dru Sutton
dru at xilinx.com


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Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 14:41:35 MST
From: npyle at n33.stortek.com
Subject: AHA Style Guidelines Online?

Does anyone have the AHA style guidelines online?  If it is long, which I
suspect it is, email is definitely preferred.  I'm looking for the standard
information on each recognized style: OG, IBUs, flavor profiles, color, etc.
As always, we thank you for your support.

Norm
npyle at n33.stortek.com

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1374, 03/17/94