HOMEBREW Digest #1400 Sat 16 April 1994
Digest #1399
Digest #1401
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Reciculating wort and RIMS (Bob Jones)
Survey research on small brewers. ("N. S. Miceli")
Smoky Mountain Stout (/R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/)
Iodine, Yeasty Flavor, Sparge pH, Fruit Extracts (R. KEITH FRANK, DCR&D B-1222, 409-238-9880)
Grant's Celtic Ale (WESTRA_MICHAEL/HPATC2_02)
To Mash or Not to Mash? (Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900 )
Japan ("Daniel E. Listermann")
Grain vs. Extract $ (PRATTE)
Dortmunder Recipes? (officerron)
MacEwan's Strong Ale ("Glenace L. Melton")
Early bottling / Jeff did it (npyle)
RE: resusing yeast slurry/corny keg CO2 probs ("McGaughey, Nial")
Glass Canes and Co2 (ELQ1)
BW/Yeast/autolysis (braddw)
Re: Extract vs. All Grain (Drew Lynch)
Yeast Labs Yeast (pasti)
Torrified Wheat (Andrew S. McKenzie)
Homebrew Digest #1398 (Ap (Bill Rust)
Czech Pilsner Yeast ("CANNON_TOM")
Weizenbier Priming (Todd Jennings)
Re: Peter Austin & Hop Perculators (Jim Busch)
All Potato Mash (GANDE)
Re: wort pH (Jeff Frane)
Brew of the month clubs (Eugene Sonn)
cheapskates/mini-jugs (RONALD DWELLE)
doctored beer (btalk)
Priming with brown sugar (Tim Anderson)
Carapils (Michael Inglis)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 07:57:34 +0900
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Reciculating wort and RIMS
As some of you might have guessed the comment to Miller in the latest
Brewing Techniques about recirculationg wort was from Micah. I haven't even
read the article yet, but Micah's point on recirculation is that the lipid
stripping can cause stability problems in your finsihed beer. This was also
one of the points in the article we coauthored in Zymurgy. These problems
may only show up if you ship your beer or it is stressed in some form, like
when you ship it to a competition. If you want to test your beers for
stability, try taking several bottled beers and elevate their temp up to
about 90-100 deg f for several days. The longer they stay clear and taste
good the better. Haze forming can be from bacterial problems as well. Micah
told me recently that he routinely takes sample bottles from the breweries
bottling line and stress tests them. He has had his beers tested at Coors
and got really good marks. I wish he were still around to give more details
on these tests. The RIMS issue never occured to me until I read it here. I
would say that RIMS made beers would be less stable than none RIMS made
beers. I'll leave the proof/disproof as an execise for the student. Just one
more reason I'm an anti-rims zealot.
Cheers,
Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 10:34 CDT
From: "N. S. Miceli" <BA0845 at UOKMVSA.BACKBONE.UOKNOR.EDU>
Subject: Survey research on small brewers.
Dear Homebrew Digest and Beer-L List Members,
I want to thank those of you who were kind enough to point me in
the right direction regarding published sources for brewing
industry data. Your help has made the research for my paper
much easier than it would have been otherwise.
I hope that you will not mind too much if I ask you for a few
minutes of your time, and information which you possess.
I would like to gather data on small brewers, micro-brewers,
brew pubs, etc. How you identify yourself doesn't matter. But I
would like to gather data which will let me compare this segment
of brewers to the large brewers.
I can guarantee that I will keep all responses confidential. I
will be the only one to see individual responses. Any data will
be used in the aggregate, or to develop statistics (e.g.,
average capacity, productivity ratios, etc.). If an
individual's response could identify them (e.g., as the only
person in a class), then I'll combine their data into another
category.
The information I'm looking for is similar to that which I've
gathered from the Brewers Almanac. If the list members want, I
could send the statistics (averages, etc.) on the HBD for you to
see. But if anyone would object to even this type of
presentation, I won't put it on the list.
I would like to be able to develop trends over time (e.g.,
annual increases in brewing capacity), but that information may
not be readily available for everyone. I'd like to see as much
or as little information as you'd care to send me.
If you like, you can respond to the following questions on this
e-mail, and just send it right back to me. If not, sorry to have
bothered you.
If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me
directly.
Nicholas Miceli
Doctoral Student (Management)
University of Oklahoma
ba0845 at uokmvsa.backbone.uoknor.edu
(405) 325-3244
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
1. In what state are you located?
2. How many brewing facilities do you operate?
3. How would you describe your operation (micro-brewery,
brewpub, etc.)?
4. What types of beer or malt beverages do you produce?
5. Are they sold or consumed on-site, off-site, or both?
6. What other ways do you sell or market your products?
7. Who do you consider your main competition?
8. What was your first year of operation?
9. In that year, and each year since then (or for as many years
as you'd care to provide data) what was your volume of
production?
Please help me out. If you measure production
in barrels, let me know how many gallons a barrel is. If
you use gallons, than that's great. Just let me know what
your unit of measure is.
10. In your first year of production, and each year since then,
how many total persons did you employ? How many of them
directly worked on producing beer?
11. In your first year of production, and for each year since
then, what was your total dollar investment in brewing
or brewing-related equipment?
12. Tell me about yourself. How did you get involved in brewing?
What do you like and dislike about running your business?
What do you think is the biggest opportunity for your business?
What do you think it the biggest threat to your business?
Any other information which you would care to share would be
appreciated.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 12:26:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/ at mr.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: Smoky Mountain Stout
Just a report on a sample of bottled stout from the Smoky Mountain Brewery
in Waynesville, NC. Our homebrew club (TrUB) had a stout night and had
commercial samples of stout including Old 38, Dragon Stout, and Young's
Oatmeal Stout. As I was leaving the store I saw Smoky Mountain Ale-"A
stout" brewed in NC so I thought I would give it a try. We tried this last
so we could compare it to the better known commercial stouts. Well it has
been awhile since I opened a bottle and had it shoot up in my face. Yes,
it was a gusher and so was the other bottle. To be fair maybe it was just
this lot; however, it was a poor beer with off flavors, little body and
worse than many homebrews I have had. I was disappointed as I was hoping
more good brews would be brewed in NC. Anyone else sampled beers from that
brewery or have any info. on it?
Andy Kligerman
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 13:24:19 -0400
From: keithfrank at dow.com (R. KEITH FRANK, DCR&D B-1222, 409-238-9880)
Subject: Iodine, Yeasty Flavor, Sparge pH, Fruit Extracts
From: Bruce DeBolt, Brew Bayou Club, Lake Jackson, TX
To address some messages in recent days:
1. Iodine
After having some sanitation problems I switched from bleach
and rinse to iodophor (BTF brand) and no rinse. I've made
10 batches without any problems. Dosage is 1 Tb per 5
gallon or 1/2 tsp per gallon. Let sit at least two minutes
(minimum time). Of course your container should be clean first.
Iodophors must be acidic to work, typical products are
formulated with acid to a pH range of 3.5-5.5. This allows them to
work in somewhat basic water (my tap water is pH 8.5), just make sure
there is a yellow to amber color. Shelf life stability of the concentrate
is very long, but I don't have an exact number. To conserve
iodophor treat your carboy first, then use that solution for
everything else. It is much more cost effective to buy the
big bottles of BTF (1 liter) than the smaller ones.
2. Yeasty Flavor
When I switched from dry yeast to liquid yeast the residual
yeasty flavors in my beers, especially pale ales,
disappeared. I have always made a starter with liquid yeast - 2 Tb
extract in 2 cups water, plus 2 hop pellets. Boil, cool, pitch.
Pitch in fermenter within 12-24 hours. To date I've used Wyeast
American, European (Alt), and English ale.
3. Sparge pH
Miller recommends lactic, phosphoric, and/or gypsum for
adjusting sparge water to 5.7 in his book. An award winning
brewer at the local homebrew supply says just get it below
6.0. My brew water is essentially free of ions and neutral
(pH 7.0) - I use 1 tsp gypsum (to get some mineral content)
and 1/4 tsp lactic acid to hit pH 5.7-5.8.
4. Fruit Extracts
I've used cranberry and peach extract from St. Patrick's in
Austin. I split a 5 gallon pale ale batch in half and used
2 oz. of each flavor. The peach had a lot of aroma, and
some flavor. The cranberry was stronger in flavor, and
somewhat tart - better overall than the peach for the base
beer brewed. One thing to keep in mind is extracts are pure
flavor, there is no sugar. To taste like "fruit" you want
some residual sweetness. For pale ales use a less
attenuative yeast (such as Alt) and/or mash at higher
temperatures. Watch the hop additions. My pale ale was too
bitter for the peach flavor. I'll be bottling a pale ale
this week with peach, cranberry and pear extacts, will let
you know how it goes. See HopTech's catalog for more
details on bittering and extract dosages (1-800-DRY-HOP).
5. HOMEBREW COST - ALL GRAIN, BULK EXTRACT, CANNED EXTRACT
I originally wrote this article for our homebrew club
newsletter. You can adjust the economics to suit your
local supplier or recipe, but it serves as a good general
example.
The following is a comparison of making Generic Ale using four
options based on a simple recipe. For prices I used typical
numbers from an area retailer. There are discounts by going
elsewhere and those will be mentioned at the end of the
article. I'll assume a 5 gallon batch yielding fifty two
12 oz. bottles. The simplest recipe is based on a hopped
extract kit with added corn syrup. The other options use
only malt, either extract or all grain. I've assumed that
the extract kit is lightly hopped and kept the hop content
moderate in the other options. The ratio of grain to
extract is based on a guideline of 7 gravity points per
pound of liquid extract vs. 5 points per pound of grain. In
actual practice most brewers would probably add other things
to their brew, such as specialty grains, but this example
will be kept simple.
Basis prices
Canned hopped extract, 3.3 lbs $12.00
Brewery grade corn syrup $1.50/lb
Bulk liquid extract $2.00/lb
Bulk grain $1.00/lb
Hops $1.25/oz.
Priming sugar $0.50/batch
Dry yeast (liquid - add $1-3) $2.00
Options for making batch:
- Kit #1 - Canned extract with yeast packet included. 2 lbs
corn syrup added to increase gravity. This beer would taste
"lighter" than those below, so it wouldn't compare exactly.
- Kit #2 - same as Kit #1 but two cans used to achieve
higher gravity, better malt flavor, with no corn syrup.
- "Bulk Extract" or "All Grain" according to the following
Generic Ale recipe:
Liquid extract 6.6 lbs (to equal amount in can extract)
or All Grain 9.2 lbs (7/5 ratio vs. extract)
Hops 2 oz. (1 oz. bitter and finish)
Dry yeast 1 package
Priming sugar 1 cup
THE BOTTOM LINE
Kit #1 Kit #2 Bulk Extract All Grain
Malt 12.00 24.00 13.20 9.20
Corn syrup 3.00 - - -
Hops - - 2.50 2.50
Yeast - - 2.00 2.00
Priming sugar 0.50 0.50 0.50 0.50
TOTAL 15.50 24.50 18.20 14.20
Price/bottle 0.30 0.47 0.35 0.27
Price/6 pack 1.80 2.82 2.10 1.64
As the table shows the main cost is malt, usually followed
by hops, then yeast. For higher gravity beers the malt or
grain cost goes up and everything else stays about the same
(sometimes extra hops). Extract companies do the mashing
for you so it costs more than grain. As you move towards
the right in the table (starting with Kit #2) costs go down
and control over the final beer goes up. The most obvious
conclusion is that for cost reasons, if you like all malt beer
you should buy bulk extract or go all grain, it is much cheaper
than buying cans.
HOW DO YOU LOWER THE COST?
For an all malt brew the cheapest way to is to go all grain.
Liquid yeast can be re-used if you are careful about
sanitation. Some people really lower the yeast cost by re-
using several times, or by culturing multiple slants from
the original package. I've been re-using it once per
package with no problems (12 batches), saving the rinsed
dregs from the primary. This brings the cost down to dry
yeast, or less.
If you have cheaper ingredient prices this can significantly
affect the economics. For example (from a mail order
catalog):
Liquid Extract $1.65/lb
Dry Extract $2.35/lb for 3 lb, $2.00 lb for 50 lb
Grain $0.55/lb for 50 lb bag
Hops $2.40 for 3 oz., $8.50 for 16 oz.
Dry Yeast $1.00
Liquid Yeast $3.50
If you substitute the cheapest of these prices in the table above
the Bulk Extract 6 pack drops to $1.28 ($11.08 batch) and the All
Grain 6 pack is only $0.98 ($8.48 batch). If a home brewer
can make a six pack for under $1.00, imagine how low the
ingredient costs in a six pack must be for the big
breweries!
Bruce DeBolt
c/o keithfrank at dow.com
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 13:26:00 -0400
From: WESTRA_MICHAEL/HPATC2_02 at i3125ent.atl.hp.com
Subject: Grant's Celtic Ale
Greetings...
Does anyone out there in HBD-land have an extract/specialty grain
recipe for Grant's Celtic Ale? I received a six-pack of this stuff
from "Beer Across America" in March and LOVED it. It is lower in
calories, lower in alcohol, light in body... but has a super
burnt (almost coffee-like) flavor. If you don't have a recipe,
does anyone have an idea on what kind of grain/malt gives this
kind of flavor?
Please reply to the Digest or to: mwestra at stpaul.msr.hp.com
Thanks and Cheers,
Mike Westra
HP-St.Paul
mwestra at stpaul.msr.hp.com
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 13:51:37 EDT
From: Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900 <ksemery at cbda9.apgea.army.mil>
Subject: To Mash or Not to Mash?
I have a quick question about mashing. Up 'til now I have been
just an extract brewer and have invested large amounts of money
into my kegging system. Now there are external controls which are
keeping me from spending more money on this hobby of mine.
My brew kettle will safely boil 3 gallons of water. Until I am
allowed to purchase a mash bin, could I:
Mash 2 gallons of water with all the grains. Dump this into a
sparging bag in the primary fermenter, and sparge with water until
the level comes up to 3 gallons. Bring this back to a boil and
finish brewing as with kits.
I realize I won't get everything out of the grains, but it would
cost less than kits. If this works, it would allow me and others
to try their hand at all grain brewing without investing more $$$.
Is this worth the effort?
Return to table of contents
Date: 14 Apr 94 15:07:24 EDT
From: "Daniel E. Listermann" <72723.1707 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Japan
Rob Reed,
Your friend can find homebrew supplies through:
Sadat Yamanaka
N B Japan LTD
301 Mlyanaga Bldg 1-5-1
Motoakasaka Mineto-ku
Tokyo 107 Japan
They carry our stuff in Japan.
His phone number is (03) 423-6060. His english is excellent.
Dan Listermann
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 1994 15:22:36 EST
From: PRATTE at GG.csc.peachnet.edu
Subject: Grain vs. Extract $
This note is just to keep the flame going. It was nice to see
several recent all-grain brewer's fess up to the hidden cost in all
grain (ex. propane cost, mashers, lauter tuns, etc.). According to
their data, I would have an initial up-front cost of between $180-
$270 to convert to all-grain (and before anybody jumps in about
building the equipment yourself, remember tools, supplies and sweat
cost money). They also state that the cost for grain and fuel run
them about $8-$9 for a 5 gallon batch (This is, of course, excluding
the occassional person who get get their grain from their local
microbrewery for a couple of bucks). Considering that I can purchase
enough decent quality malt (Northwestern, Yellow Dog, for example) for
the same batch at about $10-$15 and that it only cost me about $.10
per boil for electricity, this means that the cost differential is
about $2-$7 per batch. At the lower end, this means 90-130 batches
to recoup the cost; at the upper end, 26-39. Last year, I brewed 17
batches. This means that it would take me a minimum of 2 years to
recoup the up front charges for my beer. By the time I do recoup my
losses, there's a good chance that I will have to start replacing
some of this equipment.
Now, there is a good chance that people out there can do this a lot
cheaper (remember, too, that I could make extract beer a little
cheaper by using some cheaper adjuncts). The point is, it seems to
me that economics (especially when you consider the time) are not a
good reason why to switch to all-grain. Better beer, more control,
more fun in your hobby, these are good reasons. However, I have fun
making extract beers and enjoy drinking them. I have more fun
tinkering with special ingredients (fruits, herbs, honey, etc.) and
seeing there effect on the beer than I do with tinkering with protein
rest times. The point: to each there own, do it your own way.
That's the whole point to homebrew; I don't have to drink what the
mass producers make; I have the freedom to drink what I like. There,
now back to the fun stuff.
John Pratte
P.S. : Zima taste like alcoholic FRESCA, not Sprite. Taste compare
them and you'll see.
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 15:19:46 EDT
From: officerron at aol.com
Subject: Dortmunder Recipes?
Hello everyone, this is the second day of my HBD subscription and I have a
question...does anyone have a recipe for making a Dortmunder type beer, such
as D.A.B. Dark or Dortmunder Union Dark? Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks!
Ron Renken
Washington, IL
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Date: 14 Apr 94 15:05:45 EDT
From: "Glenace L. Melton" <71242.2275 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: MacEwan's Strong Ale
Request to homebrewers north of the border (i.e. Canada or Scotland):
Down here in the Benighted States it is impossible (after years of trying)
to buy MacEwan's Strong Ale. Scotch Ale and other, yes, but not STRONG
Ale. I have tried emulating this superior product but success is less than
apparent. Does anyone NOTB have a clue as to the type of dark grains or
sugars that will approximately reproduce MSA? If so, please reply to above
CIS address.
[END]
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 9:57:58 MDT
From: npyle at n33.ecae.stortek.com
Subject: Early bottling / Jeff did it
Michael Ell writes that he bottled his ale early (1.028). I agree that this
is early, but you have less to worry about than you might think. If the
bottles are truly "similar to Grolsch" then I would venture to say you will
not have bottle bombs. The Grolsch bottles are especially thick and the
rubber seal at the top will give up before the glass. The other thing you
have working for you is that you can easily bleed off excess pressure from
these bottles with a quick open-shut. You might cool them first to prevent
the beer from gushing out. No worries, mate.
**
P.S. to Dave Burns: that Zymurgy article on brewing with sugar was written
by none other than the HBDs own Jeff Frane. FYI.
Cheers,
Norm = npyle at n33.stortek.com
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 13:13:00 PDT
From: "McGaughey, Nial" <nmcgaugh at hq.walldata.com>
Subject: RE: resusing yeast slurry/corny keg CO2 probs
re:Subject: Reusing yeast and misc.
>John DeCarlo x7116 <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
WRITES:
>My suggestion (and what *I* do):
> Reuse from primary but *wash* your yeast. Washing, even with boiled
>and cooled water (instead of an acid-wash which can clean even better),
>is relatively easy and you get clean yeast slurry to reuse.
Ok, this is kinda obvious (maybe) but for those of us that aren't
microbiologists, what is the procedure for *washing* your yeast? I would
like to know, as reusing yeast slurry is a common pratice for me, and I have
had good luck with pitching from a refrigerated sample taken from the
primary.
TIA.
re: Cornelius keg CO2 dissatisfaction:
On getting CO2 into solution, I've had the same problem with too much foam.
While my foam/beer ratio steadily decreases with the number of pours during
a KegBout (tm), the amount of CO2 in solution is rarely satisfactory. My
procedure is: siphon unprimed beer into keg, flush headpace with CO2, seal
lid, pressurize to 24psi, shake vigorously, repressurize back to 24psi, then
set out on back porch for about 1 week (temps are mid 40's to low 50's)
during the week reshaking and repressurizing every other day.
on tapping day, depressurize keg and immediately repressurize to about 10psi
and dispense. Beer tasted great, but no CO2 in suspension except for about
15 seconds during the initial pour (looks like a pour from a Guinness pub
draught). Yes I have a despised 'cobra head' tap. what gives? would putting
a little priming sugar help the CO2 along?
Sitting in flat beer, and hotbreak infested yeast slurry, I remain-
Nial McGaughey, Wall Data
#include <standard disclaimer>
go <see the egress>
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 11:39:28 PDT
From: ELQ1%Maint%HBPP at bangate.pge.com
Subject: Glass Canes and Co2
Morning all you brew people,
After the discussion of contaminated racking canes, I sought a solution
to cleaning, first was a Q-tip [tm] drawn thru the cane with fishing line.
Also thought of using SS tubing for canes, but you couldn't see thru them.
The other came to mind when discussion of glass air locks surfaced, so I
took some 3/8 glass tube and made a clean bottling and racking canes.
No more dull plastic disposable canes for me, glass is although fragial,
it is cleaner in appearance. Next, glass transfer tubing...
On another quick note, has anybody else seen Connections, the TLC program?
So many advances in medicine,industry and chemicals can be directly related
to beer making, one of them is Ether, first found by an inventer who lived
next to a brewery and found that if you hang a live mouse just above the
fermenting wort, the rat would die. He would save the Co2 and use that
as a laughing gas, ether was developed from other expermentations using
this gas. What a gas.
Ed Quier ELQ1 at PGE.COM ptt 707-444-0718 co.375-0718
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Date: Thu Apr 14 17:11:55 1994
From: braddw at rounder.rounder.com
Subject: BW/Yeast/autolysis
One last post on the subject.
I don't know who it was (sorry) but someone mentioned that the high
alchohol levels would weaken the cell walls of the yeast and it would
most likely breakdown thus excreting nasties into the BW.
A friend once told me that in bottle conditioned BW's this is part of the
style, and that over time the resultant off-flavors will mellow, adding
character(?) to the finished product.
My question: is my friend full of s**t?
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 15:47:57 -0700
From: Drew Lynch <drew at chronologic.com>
Subject: Re: Extract vs. All Grain
Basically, I am replying to a message which claimed the need for a
mini-kitchen in the basement, and 8 hours of free time to brew an all
grain batch. It just isn't so.
I am an all grain brewer. I changed from extract primarily to get
more control over the brewing process (particularly the ratio of
fermentable to unfermentable sugars) and save money. My early all
grain batchs were of significantly lower quality than my late extract
batches. Experience changed this drastically. With more control comes
more responsibility.
After experimenting with multi-step mashes and pseudo-decoctions, I
settled on the single infusion process, 10 gallons at a time. The
only equipment that I have now that was unneeded for my previous 5
gallon extract batches is: A powerful propane burner ($65 inc. propane
tank), a cutoff keg brewpot ($15 + 3x$2 sabre saw blades) and a 54
quart cooler with slotted copper manifold ($20 + $2). I'm not saying
that I haven't bought/built extra toys, but this is what I _needed_ to
make the switch. I brew in my backyard.
Once I settled on this equipment and process, I also settled into a
brew schedule which takes about 4 hours from start to finish,
including cleanup. Compared to 2x5 gallon extract batches, I'm coming
out ahead. And, in that time is fair amount of free time. The way
I'm set up, I need pay little or no attention to the mash or sparge.
The only part I watch really closely is the initial boil, to prevent
boilover.
Don't bet me wrong, I'm a _big_ advocate of enjoying whatever method
of brewing you choose, be it chew up the grain and spit it into a pot.
I just don't want people to be unneccesarily scared away from
alternate brewing methods.
Drew Lynch
Chronologic Simulation, Los Altos, Ca.
A VIEWlogic Company
(415)965-3312x18
drew at chronologic.com
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 22:19:22 EDT
From: pasti at aol.com
Subject: Yeast Labs Yeast
Hello All,
It's so good to be back. You really miss Cyberspace when your employer tells
you not to use it anymore.
Anyway, I bought A Yeast Labs Trappist Ale Yeast. The stuff comes in a tube
with an expiration date that said August 1994. Well, I pitched into a
starter (1 quart) and it's taken well over 2 days for any action to happen(I
shake the starter and see if any CO2 comes out of solution). Before this the
starter was completely dead. I assumed the stuff was dead and bought a
Wyeast Belgian Ale Yeast to replace it. I'm thinking of pitching both. My
question is: what's the chance that the Yeast Labs stuff was dead and my
starter just kicked in with some infected fermentation? I'd really like to
use the stuff if I could. Liquid yeast isn't cheap.
Andy Pastuszak
Philadelphia, PA
Keep those extract reviews coming! I'm getting more requests for the
completed product than I am getting extract reviews!
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 23:03:06 EDT
From: asm at med.unc.edu (Andrew S. McKenzie)
Subject: Torrified Wheat
After returning recently from London and visiting with several brewers I
noticed that most of them add a small percentage of torrified wheat to their
mash. The purpose of this is to improve head retention and after stopping
by the hand pumps on the way out I did discover that this and other aims
where mightily achived. Thinking this practice was unique to English
brewers I was surprised to find microbrewers in Penns. and Maryland also
adding this to their grist. Nostalgia sweeping over me I look through old
Zymurgy's and here again I find reference to this odd grain in the recipe's
for English ales. Frustration and perplexity have overtaken me now
because for some reason you can't get this poor fellow from any homebrew
shops, or at least any I tried (about 20). Well, they did say I could buy
a 55lb bag from them but then agian so did Crosby & Baker. So, as this
narrative grows longer, my question is where can I get this stuff or why
doesn't anyone on a homebrewing level use it. Or mayber a better question
would be how can I convince other brewers to call their local shops for it?
One clarifier: for what ever reason there is a terminology chasm associiated
with this word "torrified" that leads many to direct me to cereal aisle
at the local grocery. I don't want puffed wheat for breakfast and I certainly
don't want it in my beer. Crosby & Baker's use of this word applies to a
hard "pearled" grain. So any help or discussion would be most helpful.
A. McKenzie
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 94 21:54:00 -0640
From: bill.rust at travel.com (Bill Rust)
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1398 (Ap
As a great actor once said, "I'll be bock." ... and so I am.
The results are in from the Zima/Shandy field test:
I tried Zima with an old favorite, Guiness Extra Stout (hey, I'm planning
on making my own stout next Christmas. Don't let that get in the way of
science!) In the true spirit of the Scientific Method, I tried several
solutions with the following ratios:
ZIMA GUINESS COMMENTS
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
50.0% 50.0% At first, effervescent, citrus, thin, too much Zima!
25.0% 75.0% Better. Still too much citrus aftertaste, tho.
12.5% 87.5% Not bad! Guiness Lite?? (kind of an oxymoron, huh?)
0.0% 100.0% Ahhh, there's the rub! Best yet; I think I should
patent this stuff!
Other observations: I was right about the strength (phwew!). However, I
guess I missed the mark on that point. Apparently Shandy was derived to
allow the youth of our cousins across the 'puddle' to partake of the wonders
of finely made beer (a point that was graciously pointed out by one of our
recently tansplanted readership). If you do want to give it a try, just put
in a generous splash. It tends to sweeten the stout a bit, make it a bit
lighter, and the citrus quality adds a certain... character.
I wonder if you could make a Black & Tan with this stuff?? Black & Clear?
That concludes my unofficial field test. Any ideas what I can do with the
other 5 Zimas? (keep it clean, kids...)
SPECIAL NOTE: As I often see notices about new brew pubs and the like, I
thought I might mention that a fairly new restaurant/brewery, J.D. Nicks
(formerly Wolfgang's) is operating in O'Fallon Illinois (near St. Louis). On
April 18, they are opening a homebrewer's supply store (in the back of the
restaurant). I have no affiliation; I just think it's great that us 'Boys
from Illinois' no longer have to drive 45 minutes, one way, to get to a
local supply store. They also plan to start a homebrewers' club, and the
masterbrewer had offered to sell Briess malts and starters from the yeasts
at the micro-brewery! I think this part of Illinois is finally starting to
come 'round!
Cheers, Y'all!
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| As he brews, so shall he drink. | BILL RUST |
| | Systems Analyst |
| BEN JONSON C. 1573-1637 | Shiloh, IL |
| Every Man in his Humour [1598], Act II, sc. I | bill.rust at travel.com |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
- ---
~ SPEED 1.40 [NR] ~ Operator, trace this call and tell me where I am!
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Date: 15 Apr 94 08:22:00 EST
From: "CANNON_TOM" <CANNON_TOM at hq.navsea.navy.mil>
Subject: Czech Pilsner Yeast
Message Creation Date was at 15-APR-1994 08:22:00
We're brewing a pilsner this weekend, and decided to use the
Czech Pilsner Yeast (WYEAST 2278 - I think). Do any of you
all out there have any experience with this yeast -
surprises, idiosyncrasies, etc. TIA.
Tom Cannon
DH Brewery
Fairfax/Annandale VA
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Date: 15 Apr 94 09:25:08 EDT
From: jennings at readmore.com (Todd Jennings)
Subject: Weizenbier Priming
Hey all,
Now that Spring has more than sprung, I'm working on summer wheat
beers. Also, up 'til now I've been priming all my homebrews with corn
sugar. My wife has commented that the carbonation just doesn't seem
right, and I endeavor to resolve that by priming with malt extract. In
this case, I am planning on making a priming starter with WHEAT malt. a)
Is this fine to do? I was unsure about the level of fermentables in
wheat as opposed to barley. b) How much do I use in my priming wort?
Will 1.25 cups do for 5 gallons, just as is recommended for malted
barley? Thanx for any help you can provide.
Todd 8^) tjenning at readmore.com New York, NY
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Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 10:18:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Peter Austin & Hop Perculators
> During the microbrewers conference going on the last few days here in
> Portland, I talked with one of the representatives from Peter Austin &
> Partners, a British firm building breweries and brewpubs around the
> world. I was particularly intrigued by their systems because they
> appeared to be much less expensive than many, they use open fermenters,
> and they were right next to my booth. At any rate, they have something
> innovative they call a Hop Percolator, into which the finishing hops are
> placed at the end of the mash. It is a closed unit, which soaks the
> hops in hot water and prevents any of the volatiles from boiling off.
> After the boil is finished, the wort is whirlpooled, then run through
> the Hop Percolator on the way to the chiller. They are very hot on this
> idea as a way to assure absolutely consistent utilization of finishing
> hops, and made a fairly convincing argument in its favor.
>
> The nature of the operation *requires* that it be closed. In other
> words, this wouldn't work at home unless you could pump the wort through
> some kind of vessel in which you'd been steeping your hops. But... it
> was interesting.
Peter Austin is a familiar manufacturer around here (MD). Alan Pugsley
has setup Wild Goose in Cambridge, MD, and REd Feather, in Chambersburg,
Pa, and the Wharf Rat II in baltimore. I agree that the Hop Percolator
is a good thing, but its hardly revolutionary or even innnovative. Its
basically a hop back. And you're right, its better if they are closed.
A closed system will have water vapor in the head space so oxygen transfer
is minimized, hence less of the dreaded HSA (which IMO is over emphasized
as a problem for homebrewers, but is certainly a concern for a shipping
micro). There is no douubt that the use of a properly designed hop back
is great way to go for ale brewers or for any brewers using whole hops.
It is quite true that the vessal needs to be big enough to allow a
reasonable flow rate of cast out wort. What may be innovative or at
least different from classic hop backs is that the wort is whirlpooled
to remove trub and hop pellets prior to the Percolator stage. Classic
hop backs are usually designed to handle the entire hop load of a batch,
the kettle , flavor and finish hops are all run through the hop back.
I would imagine that the Percolator would result in better clairity of
cast out wort into the fermenters.
Open fermentation, its *the* way to make traditional ales.
Best,
Jim Busch
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Date: 15 Apr 94 15:04:37 GMT
From: GANDE at slims.attmail.com
Subject: All Potato Mash
A person that I don't know that lives very far away from me would
like to mash 20 or 30 Lbs of potatoes. Does anyone have any
experience with this sort of thing? How does one sparge this
obviously gooey mess? Or is it fermented as is and then "processed"
I realize that distilling is outside the scope of the Digest, but I
thought that this question rested more on the stuck-sparge/fermenting
something side of things. Private EMAIL is fine:
GANDE at SLIMS.ATTMAIL.COM
....Glenn
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Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 07:10:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch at teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: wort pH
Jack is explaining the Right(TM) Way(TM) to Do(TM) It(TM)
> It's best to monitor the mash and wort pH before you do anything to the
> water.
>
> Don't be surprised if you get a few other opinions on the subject but you
> will learn more trying my way.
>
Jack will soon be selling the EasyAcidifier(TM): a bag of cracked malt.
The original poster might, in fact, find it valuable to read a little
bit about mash pH (maybe not Greg Noonan's book!), to get a few more
[informed] opinions. Jack occasionally sticks his neck out, assuming
that whatever [presumably] works for Jack will work for all.
Apparently, Jack is under the impression that water is water, no matter
where you are.
It is true that measuring the pH of the mash is of more valuable than
measuring that of the tap water. Jack may not have noticed, but the
contribution from grain can vary considerably, depending on the nature
of the grist and the method of mashing.
I've lost track of the original poster, so apologies for leaving out his
name. But, whoever you are, you will probably get more value by the
correct use of gypsum, in your case. If you contact your local water
department, they will send you a copy of your water analysis (assuming,
of course, you are in a municipal water system). With this and a decent
brewing text (perhaps Miller's book is a good place to start), you
should be able to make some simple additions. Come to think of it, the
simplest explanation I've seen was in Dave Line's Big Book of Brewing,
and he offered a handy chart for additions for various beerstyles as
well.
Although Jack will apparently disagree, control over your brewing water
is *enormously* important to an all-grain brewer, and one of the most
essential elements in successfully brewing to style. You cannot brew a
pale ale with Munich water, anymore than you can brew a Dunkel with
Burton water.
Really, Jack.
- --Jeff
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Date: Fri, 15 Apr 1994 10:37:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eugene Sonn <eugene at sccs.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: Brew of the month clubs
I know someone posted a list of several brew of the month clubs a few
months ago. Could someone with a copy e-mail it to me, please? A friend
of mine wants to sign up for one, but needs to compare what's out there.
Thanks in advance, Eugene Sonn
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 10:56:40 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: cheapskates/mini-jugs
As the cheapskate who started the discussion, let me chime in
again. I don't keep great records, but while I was doing my taxes
last night, I let my "quicken" take out all the check stubs to
the brew-source shops for last year. This covered all my grain
and other supplies for 21 5-gallon batches, except for some
molasses, the water, a few weird spices I tried out of the
cupboard, and the natural gas in the stove. For 1993, cost per
5-gallon batch was $8.79. I think I'm lower than some other
postings mostly because I re-cycle liquid yeast as much as I can
(until I start to worry about it). (Did someone really say that
they use a brand-new Wyeast package for EVERY batch?)
In equipment, I'm a cheapskate too and don't go in for the
hi-tech gizmos that the high-fliers use (we cheapskates call
those people "hobbyists"), unless I can find the gizmo at a
garage sale for less then $1. Last year I "rented" two carboys
for $14 (actually, it's a deposit at a water place, so I could
get the money back, I suppose), and I bought an el-cheapo
33-quart boil pot on sale, $17, which I made into a
sort-of-rube-goldberg-schmidling-like mashertunboiler, using
parts scrounged from the basement. I've maybe spent a total of
$10 in $0.99 airlocks, stoppers, plastic hose, etc. in the last
year (that's mostly included in the $8.79 above). (I dont' know
how much I have in bottles--maybe $25-- but it's not quite an
expense, since I could take them all back and get a refund.) For
grainer-newbies, I say, you CAN spend big bucks for all-grain
brewing equipment (easy), but then we throw you out of the
cheapskate club and turn your name over to the Republican
National Committee.
While I'm in the cheapskate mode, let me inquire.
I like the idea of the mini-kegs but blanch at the expense
(and I'm not too crazy about the construction of the
things--especially whatever the lining is that can't stand
bleach). But, look, I've got all these heavy-walled 3 and 4-liter
wine bottles (Gallo, Carlo Rossi, and other cheapskate samples of
the vinter's art) lying around that I just have to take back to
the re-cycler. They all seem to have the same screw-threads on
top, they're nice and green, they fit in my fridge, and they even
have a little carrying handle.
Can't someone make a dispenser/CO2 thingy like the one that
sits atop the store-bought mini-keg, but which would fit a big
wine jug? WHAT A GREAT IDEA! I'll even lay aside my cheapskate
mantle and buy the first one that one of you entrepreneurs
manufactures (at a reasonable price, of course). Or maybe just an
adapter for the mini-keg model? Are you out there, Jack?
Cheers,
Ron Dwelle (dweller at gvsu.edu)
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Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 11:26:50 EDT
From: btalk at aol.com
Subject: doctored beer
I want to do a 'doctored beer ' program for my club. Basically, this is
lacing corporate beers with flavorings, spices, chemicals to mimic off
flavors and aromas.
I have some info but am wondering what else is out there. the main things are
what to use and how much.
regards,Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com>
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Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 08:29:16 PDT
From: tima at wv.MENTORG.COM (Tim Anderson)
Subject: Priming with brown sugar
A small, but meaningful, data point:
A beginner friend and I did a double batch of porter. We did a
5 gallon boil, chilled, evenly divided into two carboys, diluted
with equal amounts of Bull Run water, pitched an evenly divided
2 liters of starter (Wyeast London Ale), fermented in the same room,
and gave each carboy an equal amount of affectionate petting during
fermentation.
At bottling time we primed one with 3/4 C of corn sugar, boiled in
a bit of water. We primed the other with the same amount, by weight,
of brown sugar, boiled in an equal bit of water, for the same amount
of time. I don't remember how much the sugar weighed, how much
water it was, how long it boiled, what the weather was like, or
whether my socks matched.
So far, (her beer is gone, mine is getting close) noone has been able
to detect any difference whatsoever between the batches. Your
mileage may vary.
tim
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Date: Fri, 15 Apr 94 08:34:18 PDT
From: mri10 at mfg.amdahl.com (Michael Inglis)
Subject: Carapils
I was reading Miller the other day and noted that he contends that Carapils
malt is added as a specialty grain primarily to aid in body through the
introduction of larger proteins into the wort. He also recommends mashing
the grains with the main mash and mentions nothing about residual sweetness
associated with the grain. He seemed to imply that the residual sweetness
of Carapils is a "myth" brought about by the common homebrewer's
misunderstanding that dextrines contribute to body and mouthfeel, while it
is actually protein (i.e. since Carapils does add body and dextrines are what
add body to beer, then Carapils must contain dextrines.) I have
stimulated discussion in this forum a couple of times on this subject in an
effort to better understand the effects of Carapils on the final product
but I still don't feel that the complete picture has been painted. Would
anyone care to comment on Miller's assertions? Have personal research or
observations corroborated them?
Mike Inglis
mri10 at mfg.amdahl.com
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1400, 04/16/94