FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Questions about pH throughout the Brewing Process (D.J.Arnone)
  root beer recipes (Jim Doyle)
  SA Tripple Bock ("DEV::SJK")
  FALSE BOTTOMS (Jack Schmidling)
  SNPA? (MS08653)
  Looking for Owades Paper (Chuck Cox)
  re: Homebrewing and Water Usage ("Brian Thorn")
  Kegging systems, and beer trading in DC Area (Mark R. Routson)
  Subject: Re: Chest Freezers & Taps (don)
  Looking for Beer Quotes (Kelly Jones)
  Microbrew Beer (rnarvaez)
  COYOTE's Cool Question (Jack Skeels)
  UNYHA Competition Results (kaltenbach)
  PINT GLASSES & RECIPES ("Coneys, Jeff")
  pH & buffers ("Dana S. Cummings")
  Yes, I amde a mistake (Jim Busch)
  RE: Wyeast Scotch (Jim Dipalma)
  Credentials / Triple bock (Rich Larsen)
  1968 London ESB yeast (Jeff Frane)
  Question Concerning Wort in Hop Bag (Philip DiFalco)
  Mea Culpa (Alan_Marshall)
  sulfur smell from dry hopping? (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
  Coleman Coolers for mashing (HUMPHREYS)
  Propane Storage Safety (Alan_Marshall)
  March MDX-3 Motor Speed Controller ("Joe Stone")
  Extracts Again (Martin Lodahl)
  Re: separate beer digests for extract and grain brewers (Al Gaspar)
  SS airstones, inline carbon filters (Mark Bellefeuille)
  Cool-er/ Moving Hops/ Kolsh/ Chuckles (COYOTE)
  Toxic Zymurgy (Bob Jones)
  Extract based oatmeal stout/Czech pils yeast update (Jim Grady)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 11:05:44 EDT
From: dja at ohm.att.com (D.J.Arnone)
Subject: Questions about pH throughout the Brewing Process


Hello,

I've been monitoring the HBD for sometime now and have noted a number
of entries discussing pH.  However, I have not been able to piece
together all of the information I am looking for.

I will be embarking on my second all-grain brew this this Saturday
(4/30/94) and will follow it up with an extract version on Sunday
(5/1/94).  Each time I make another batch I like to apply something new
that I have learned from the science of brewing.  However, chemistry
was never my strength and I'm having a bit of trouble with nailing down
target pH at various points of the all-grain/extract brewing process
and how to adjust the pH, if necessary.  I appreciate all responses.

First, some info for you.  We have well water which I have always
considered to be "hard".  When our water is boiled there is always a
white residue on our pots.  Ice from our refrigerator, well melted, has
a white precipitate.  Our water completely trashes our humidifier
leaving a white residue on the heating element and requires cleaning
once every 1 to 2 weeks.  I attribute this white substance to calcium
or mineral content, in general.

A water analysis was performed when we bought the house.  The quantity
of important elements was read as:

Units are in milligrams/liter except for pH.

	Calcium			 18.349
	Magnesium	 	  5.542
	Sodium		 	 95.154
	Zinc		  	  3.960
	Nitrate		  	  4.310
	Fluoride	  	  0.260
	Alkalinity		225.800
	Chloride	 	 10.510
	Hardness	 	 68.641
	pH		  	  7.060
	Corrosivity	  	  0.795
	Specific Conductance	512.000

Can anyone comment on this analysis??

I have available two substances: gypsum and calcium carbonate.  I plan
to use a 3 step infusion mash.  My questions are:

	1.) The mash pH should be 5.2?  What substance do I use to lower
	    the pH of the mash?? gypsum or calcium carbonate? 
	2.) The mash will have three different temperatures 130, 150 and
	    158-160 degrees F (I believe).  What should the pH be at
	    each temperature?
	3.) Should I lower the pH (make more acidic) the sparge water?
	    What should its pH be at 170 degrees F??  What do I use to
	    lower the pH gypsum or calcium carbonate??
	4.) What should the pH of the boil be at the temperature of the
	    boil??  Does this pH also apply to extract brewing?
	5.) What should the pH of the wort be when the wort is cooled
	    and ready for yeast to be added??  Does this pH also apply
	    to extract brewing?

All responses are deeply appreciated.  Direct email is welcome.

Dave Arnone
dja at ohm.att.com

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Date: Wed, 27 Apr 1994 08:44:52 -0700
From: Jim Doyle <jgdoyle at uci.edu>
Subject: root beer recipes

I know I have seen recipes for ROOT BEER go by in the past, but I neglected
to make note of them.  

I would appreciate recipes for root beer...the closer to "I.B.C." I can
get, the better...

private e-mail is ok...

TIA
        	--
Jim Doyle
P.S. Purchasing Office
Ph. (714) 856-6047


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Date: 28 Apr 94 11:02:00 CST
From: "DEV::SJK" <SJK%DEV.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: SA Tripple Bock


   Mark Stickler in HBD #1409 found SA Tripple Bock to be port-like.

   I work with a guy who recently returned from a short trip to the
East Coast.  He took the Sammy Adams tour and said that they showed
the tour "a lot" of WOODEN kegs which were claimed to contain the
fabled Tripple Bock ("Samatorator?")  Apparently, the tour guide said
that SA had no plans to re-make the stuff because it was costing them
"over $100 a barrel" though I suppose if they can get $25 a short six
for it, then we'll see more.  Anyways, I just thought I'd relate the
aging in wood thing (I have no idea if they were lined or not).
Perhaps that has something to do with the sherry flavors he tasted?

   Scott
   sjk%c17fcs.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com



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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 11:53 CDT
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: FALSE BOTTOMS

 
 >From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
 >Subject: Re: IM and the EasySparger
 
 >So, did you follow the advise to rehydrate it in advance of brewing?
 
 No, but not to be a crank, just didn't seem to make much sense as it sits in 
 the hot wort for several hours before the chiller is even turned.
 
 
 >>  Also, if Ulick is using Irish Moss, I can appreciate his frustration with 
 an  EASYMASHER....  it just plain won't work (as a crud filter that is).  I 
 never  said it would work with IM but it's nice to know these things.
 
 >Wow, sounds like an excellent argument for the SS perforated sheet false
 bottom, but I guess you need to deal with dinosaur vendors.....
 
 Just for the record, I received mail this morning from readers who routinely 
 use IM with EM's and have no trouble, so I am not sure where we are at.
 
 However, be it known that I never claimed that an EM was better, in all 
 respects, than a SS false bottom.  The advantages of the  EM are:
 
 * that it CAN be a single kettle all grain system
 
 * mashing and lautering are done in the same vessel requiring no transfer to 
 the lauter tun..
 
 * Virtually no re-cycling of wort is required to clear out the dead space
 
 * It is inexpensive and easy to use.
 
 >Seriously, I think what Jack has discovered is yet another reason why
 counterflow chillers are better than immersion, trub removal.  By combining
 both the hot and cold trub, and by optimizing your trub precipitation, you
 have overwhelmed the ability of your little home brewery to adequately
 remove the trub.
 
 I really do not understand what you are saying here... like, whose on first?
 
 >  If you had used a false bottom as a hop back, the surface
 area available to help seperate the hot trub would have kept most of the
 hot trub in the kettle.
 
 Again, if I used a false bottom and which chiller?
 
 I am at a loss as to how to respond to this but maybe that was your goal.
 
 But you know I will give it a try anyway.
 
 If I used a false bottom and the process I described, there is a chance that 
 the fb may not have clogged and therefore prove to be better than an EM for 
 IM.  My guess is that it may well have clogged anyway and can't imagine doing 
 a 2 hour boil with a false bottom in place.
 
 Now, if we switch to a counterflow chiller, there is no need for the false 
 bottom because we can simply suck all the crud through the chiller and let it 
 settle out later.   Furthermore, with a cf chiller, the EM may well have 
 worked anyway.
 
 So as I see it, you have made a tentative argument for one or the other but 
 not necessarily both and a judiciously placed syphon would have solved all 
 the problems in the first place.
 
 I would also be interested in knowing how many people use their false bottoms 
 in their brew kettle.
 
 js
 
 
 

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Date:      28 Apr 94 12:04:44
From: MS08653 at MSBG.med.ge.com
Subject: SNPA?


From: "MICHAEL L. TEED"<MS08653 at MSBG>


   Dist:  INTERNET

 int homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

After seeing numerous articles posted regarding Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and the
ability to make a yeast culture from it, I decided to check into the feasabilit
y of doing a culture. So I go to the local beer mart and look at a bottle, and
I see no yeastie beasties laying about... So I talk to the local owner, who is
also a homebrewer, and he doesnt feel that there is any cultivatable yeast in t
he bottle. SO, the question is: Over here on the east side of Ol' Mississippi,
does the law still exist that we can get no beers that have not been pasteurize
d ( like Coors used to be (?)) or is the yeast I am interested in culturing inv
isible to the eye. There is absolutely no sediment in the bottles I looked at.
E-Mail responses are fine, I will summarize.

Michael Teed - MS08653 at MSBG.med.ge.com- GE Medical Systems CT division


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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 14:27:49 EDT
From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox)
Subject: Looking for Owades Paper

Here's one for my fellow old-timers:

Five, six, maybe seven years ago (perhaps at the Estes Park conference)
I recall being shown a copy of an article or transcript of a talk that
Joe Owades gave about designing Sam Adams Pittsburgh Lager.  It included
a technical discussion of the recipe as well as a market analysis.  I
have been trying to track it down with no success.  Other folks recall
the paper too, but no one can remember where it came from.  If you have
any leads, please let me know. 

- -- 
Chuck Cox   <chuck at synchro.com>
SynchroSystems / Riverside Garage & Brewery - Cambridge, Mass.

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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 14:22:15 CST  
From: "Brian Thorn" <bthorn at nmsu.edu>
Subject: re: Homebrewing and Water Usage

I have to agree with Rich Webb.

We all should be conscious of conserving water where possible.  Homebrewing
IS a very water intensive process.  It may be cheap for most of us, but IMHO
we should treat it otherwise.  In So. Cal. and metro Ariz. much of the
municipal water comes via canal from 100's of miles away.  I live in So. New
Mexico where it seems like it never rains.  It's easy to be consious of
water use for that reason, even though I pay about $1.00 for 2000 gallons.

I have not purchased a wort chiller simply because I was concerned about
wasting the water (the food grade plastic bottles with ice have worked
relatively well for me).  Now that the creative input of the great HBD
brain has caused me to see the light, I think I'll part with the cash and
take one more step on that great stairway toward *PERFECT* (or is that
DIVINE) beer.
Cheers,
Brian Thorn
bthorn at nmsu.edu

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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 17:47:44 -0400
From: mark at cable.dt.navy.mil (Mark R. Routson)
Subject: Kegging systems, and beer trading in DC Area

  I am new to the HB list, and found the first distribution interesting
and helpful.  Not wanting to sit on the side-lines, I was hoping to
find advice on putting together a home kegging system, since the
most tedious task in the HB process (for me anyway) is cleaning, sterilizing,
bottle capping, and filling beer bottles.  I am interested in determining
several things:
  * Material parts list for putting together a 5 gallon system
    (such as Kornielius)
  * Disadvantages of kegging versus bottling in beer quality
  * Suppliers of CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP, did I say, CHEAP, kegging supplies
    (yes, I am even soliciting to buy equipment from other
      home brewers who may have an extra keg or two laying around
      gathering dust).
  Thank you in advance for the information.  I am also interested in
finding other home brewers who may be interested in exchanging brews (you
give me a bottle, I give you a bottle) in the DC Metropolitan area.

    Thanks,
    Mark R. (Olney, MD)


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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 10:26:38 CDT
From: don at tellabs.com
Subject: Subject: Re: Chest Freezers & Taps


>I am currently deciding where to place the taps on my chest freezer and am
>interested in any experience people have had with their taps on a chest
>freezer.  I am trying to decide whether to put a tower on the lid or put
>the taps on the side of the freezer.  Not having checked to see what is in
>the walls of the chest freezer (yet), does anyone have any warnings?
>
>Glenn Raudins
>raudins at Elan2.coryphaeus.com
I've got one warning -- be absolutly sure which wall has the cooling
coil in it and DONT drill into that wall. Pick another. This is an 
easy way to make a perfectly good freezer worthless. The cooling 
coil is not necessarily on the back of the freezer. Mine is on the 
front wall. 

don



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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 17:43:34 -0600
From: Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu>
Subject: Looking for Beer Quotes

I am looking to compile a list of beer quotes/aphorisms/witty
sayings/etc.  You know the ones I'm talking about, I've seen them in a
lot of your .sig files: "In heaven there is no beer,...", "He who buys
eggs, buys many shells,...", etc.  If you have some of these, please
post or mail them to me, with attributions where possible. Just send
me your .sig if that's where the quote is. If you know of any online
sources, or if anyone has already done this, please let me know.  

When I'm finished, I'll post the results, and possibly see about
uploading to the Sierra archives if there's sufficient interest.

Thanks,

Kelly

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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 19:30:48 -0500
From: rnarvaez at lan.mcl.bdm.com
Subject:  Microbrew Beer

Hello,
  Does anybody know if there is any companies that specialize in the
distribution of microbrewed beer? There are a couple of liquor stores
here in Albuquerque but they don't carry a large selection. 
I once heard about a company that offers a beer of the month club. This
company offers microbrewed beer from around the US and has it
shipped to you house. Has anyone heard of this? Please let me know I
would like to try some more MicroBrew.

Thanks in advance for any assistance

Ronald Narvaez
RNarvaez at lan.mcl.bdm.com

Never take life too seriously, it isn't a permanent thing. : )


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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 17:34 EST
From: Jack Skeels <0004310587 at mcimail.com>
Subject: COYOTE's Cool Question

Jim the Coyote asked about building a box for refrigeration (God, I hope I
spelled that right).  In the past I've sent direct e-mail to folks when I've
seen this question, but what the heck, maybe there are more people
interested.

There is a good how-to/why-to book called How and Why to Build a Wine
Cellar.  It provides an excellent intro on how to construct a variety of
temperature-controlled environments, using air conditioners, thermal sinks,
water cooling, etc.  It also discusses topics such as humidity and
condensation in such conatrction/fabrication.  

In that wine cellars are typically targetted for 40-55F with a humidity
<80%, I think that this book would give anyone enough of the ground rules so
that they could engineer a brewing-capable equivalent.

Usual disclaimer... and aside from looking through an issue of the Wine
Spectator or going to a really good wine shop, I'm not sure where you can
find a copy.
                   
Jack Skeels
JSKEELS at MCIMAIL.COM

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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 19:30:42 EDT
From: kaltenbach at aol.com
Subject: UNYHA Competition Results

Here are the results of the 16th Annual Competition of the Upstate
New York Homebrewers Association, held April 16 in Rochester, NY.
A total of 156 entries were judged.

Light Lager (9 entries)          Porter (8 entries + 1 disqualified)         
     
   1st  David Wunder                1st  Al Rickett & Tom Thompson           
     
   2nd  Al Schichler                2nd  John Zelazny                        
     
   3rd  Ron Maliwacki               3rd  Bill Heller                         
     
                                                                             
     
Amber Lager (13 entries)         Stout (19 entries)                          
     
   1st  Randy Maliwacki             1st  Bill Heller                         
     
   2nd  Andrew Jones                2nd  John Zelazny                        
     
   3rd  Wendy & Chuck Bryant        3rd  Gerald Hall                         
     
                                                                             
     
Dark Lager (13 entries)          Belgian (9 entries)                         
     
   1st  Wendy & Todd Colin          1st  Wendy & Chuck Bryant                
     
   2nd  Randy Blandford             2nd  David Wynder                        
     
   3rd  Peter McAnn                 3rd  Bill Heller                         
     
                                                                             
     
North American Ale (7 entries)   Specialty (25 entries)                      
     
   1st  George Fix                  1st  Andrew Jones                        
     
   2nd  Kenn DePotter               2nd  John Zelazny                        
     
   3rd  Paul LeClair                3rd  John Nelson **                      
     
                                                                             
     
British Ale (22 entries)         Mead (12 entries + 1 disqualified)          
     
   1st  Curtis Womach               1st  Tom & Maureen Kaltenbach            
     
   2nd  George Fix                  2nd  Jeff & Lisa Snover                  
     
   3rd  Lee Turner                  3rd  Tom Thompson                        
     
                                                                             
     
Brown Ale (16 entries)           Looks Like Saranac Black & Tan  (5 entries) 
     
   1st  John Nelson                 1st  Gerald Holl                         
     
   2nd  Maureen & Tom Kaltenbach    2nd  Manny Holl                          
     
   3rd  David Chapus

BEST OF SHOW
   1st  Wendy & Chuck Bryant --Belgian (Trappist style)
   2nd  Bill Heller -- Stout
   3rd  George Fix -- North American Ale

**   NOTE: Stu Wilson was announced at contest as 3rd place winner 
     (scorekeeping error)

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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 03:35:00 PDT
From: "Coneys, Jeff" <Coneys at oandtsvt.nbc.ge.com>
Subject: PINT GLASSES & RECIPES

Does anyone know where I can get my hands on traditional English Pint 
glasses? I have broken all but two of my set and I'm not planning any trips 
to Europe in the near future.
While I'm in the asking mode, is there an extract recipe known out there that 
would compare to Petes Wicked Ale? I have not brewed for a while and am 
looking for a good beer to get me hooked once again.
     Thanks in advance,
     Jeff Coneys  --  coneys at oandtsvt.nbc.ge.com



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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 08:03:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dana S. Cummings" <dcumming at moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: pH & buffers


In HBD # 1411, CARLSON at GVSU.EDU wrote

         > rinsed out by sparging.  Diluting a buffer does not change
         > its pH.  It seems unlikely that sparging with very soft,
 
I humbly beg to differ.  pH is defined as < -log [H+]>.  That reads minus 
the log of the hydrogen ion concentration.  As you dilute, your 
concentration of H+ decreases.  The pH will follow.  

Dana Cummings
dcumming at moose.uvm.edu


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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 09:42:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Yes, I amde a mistake

John writes:
> 
> Subject:       Don't try this at home kids
> 
> Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com> writes:
> 
> >. . . bit suprised to read that they didnt like cask hopping at 
> >"higher levels".  They said they settled on 1/6th of an oz per keg, 
> >if I remember right, claiming a tinny effect.  I have used up to 40 
> >oz in a 5 gal keg with no tinny effects, this is with East KEnt 
> >Goldings.
> 
>     Well Jim, I think you have just created a new definition for the 
> term hop head.  Were these pellets, plugs, or whole flowers?  Did you 
> have to use a marble in the bag to keep it from floating?  Has Mark 
> Garetz been in touch to get information for his forthcoming book?  
> Has Coyote been in touch for the recipe, in hopes that the critters 
> don't decimate his harvest this year?

I do get Johns humor but I guess I should correct myself.It should have
said GRAMS.  40 grams per 5 gal.  I did the experiment with 4 kegs, each
had between 14g and 40g of Whole EKGs( Morris Hanbury).  Alpha 5%.  I
loved the results. 

Jim Busch


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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 09:59:15 EDT
From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: RE: Wyeast Scotch 


    Hi All,

    In HBD#1410, Rich Larsen writes:

>Has anyone else experienced a noted increase of a sleepy hang over effect
>from the wyeast scottish.

>In addition, there is a pretty
>bad taste in the mouth as well.

>This time I
>used the tried and true Fuggle / Goldings combo and get the "icks" in the
>morning.  So now I'm attributing it to one of the "higher" alcohols.
>Whatcha think?  too high a ferment temp?  Probably in the mid to upper
>60s.  I know its just not me, as three other people reported the next day,
>that they just couldn't get moving.  Mash was 1 hour at 152, SG1.060 FG 1.010

    I brewed a strong Scotch ale with this yeast(1728) recently. The beer was
fermented at 60-62F, and racked to secondary 8 days after pitching, so I don't
think fusel alcohols should be an issue.  This past Tuesday, the 26th, I
kegged the beer.  I ended up with slightly over 5 gallons, for after filling
the keg, there was enough beer left over to fill a large glass, about 10
ounces or so.  Since I hate to waste homebrew, I drank it.  Hey, even flat,
green homebrew from the fermenter is infinitely better than BudMilloors.
This 10 ounces was the only beer I consumed that evening.
    Next day, I experienced a similar effect to what Rich reported, I was
kind of out of it all morning.  I had a terrible time concentrating at work.
I did not experience any bad aftertaste.  I had recently recovered from
a severe headcold, so I attributed the feeling to being run down, didn't
pay it too much attention at the time.  Reading Rich's post has makes me
wonder about this, anyone else that's used this yeast experience this?


          Jim

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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 08:57:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: Rich Larsen <richl at access1.speedway.net>
Subject: Credentials / Triple bock

I'm taking a poll, if y'all don't mind:

How many of you out there in the CyberBrewery have attended a professional
brewing school.  I.E. Siebel, etc.  Please E-mail me with your answers.
TIA.

The talk about the Sam(tm) Adams(tm) Triple(tm not) Bock(tm not) states that
it has sherry and port wine characteristics.  This sounds to me like
OXIDATION.  Way to go Koch.
 
=> Rich

Rich Larsen (708) 388-3514
The Blind Dog Brewery "HomeBrewPub", Midlothian, IL
(Not a commercial establishment)

    "I never drink... Wine."   Bela Lugosi as Dracula




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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 07:35:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: gummitch at teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: 1968 London ESB yeast

Wyeast's 1968 London ESB strain is highly-flocculant, with an apparent
attenuation of 67-71%.  They caution that "this strain is so flocculant
that additional aeration and agitation is needed."  My own experience
with it has been excellent, and I continue to use it in the sure
knowledge that I will get a nice malty finish and some light diacetyl.
But it's possible that under cool conditions the yeast would flocculate
so quickly that a fairly high diacetyl level would be reached.  I would
suggest that rousing it several times during fermentation is not a bad
idea.  And do be sure that it gets a definite diacetyl rest.

- --Jeff


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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 10:34:03 -0400
From: Philip DiFalco <sxupjd at fnma.COM>
Subject: Question Concerning Wort in Hop Bag


In making my beer:
   I immerse whole hops, imprisoned in a hop bag, during the boil.
   After the boil, I use a chiller to cool the wort.
   After the chill I strain the wort into the primary (a glass carboy).
   Remaining in the brewpot is the hop bag.
   The hop bag contains the whole hops and some (precious) wort.

Question:
   Should I squeeze the remaining wort from this hop bag into the primary?

   Please post or email me any responses.
   Thanks.
- ---
email: sxupjd at fnma.com (NeXT Mail Okay)
Philip DiFalco, SIS, Systems & Operation Management Development
FannieMae, 3900 Wisconsin Ave. NW, Washington, DC 20016  (202)752-2812

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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 11:29 EDT
From: Alan_Marshall <AK200032 at Sol.YorkU.CA>
Subject: Mea Culpa

Several people have kindly pointed out that I compared the water usage
of Great Western Malting and Upper Canada Brewing, and I said GW's
10E6 gallon water usage was wasteful.  That was foolish of me.

As pennance, I'm heading for the corner to sit with a dunce cap on,
sipping a warm Genuine Cold-Filtered Bud Dry Lite Ice Original Draft,
brewed under license, of course. 

Alan Marshall

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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 11:33 EDT
From: CSS2 at OAS.PSU.EDU (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
Subject: sulfur smell from dry hopping?

A question for the group...I recently made a batch of C. Papazian's Rocky
Racoon Honey Lager and figured this might be a good batch to try dry hooping
with.  I fermented for a week in the primary, racked to the carboy and added a
"tea" made from a cup of previously boiled water and 1/2 oz of Cascade
pellets. After allowing it to finish (18 days), I decided to bottle last
night. When I pulled the airlock to rack to the bottling bucket, I got a
strong sulfur smell from the carboy; not overwealming, but noticable.  I'm
fairly sure that the beer was not light struck (I lagered in the same dark
corner of my basement that I always use)...any ideas what might have happened?
 Could it come from the hops?  Can this beer be saved? (I bottled it anyway,
hoping that the smell will age out :) Any advice would be appreciated...
Thanks
Hoppy Brewing
Curt
css2 at oas.psu.edu

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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 11:52:31 -0500 (EST)
From: HUMPHREYS at UMBC2.UMBC.EDU
Subject: Coleman Coolers for mashing

Hi all,
I am currently in the process of acquiring the equipment
for all-grain brewing.  I've been searching high and low
for the fabled 10 gallon Gott "tower of power" at local
(Baltimore) retail establishments.  This is starting to
turn into the Holy Grail for me - I cannot find one anywhere.
I did find a 10 gallon Coleman water "jug" which is shaped
like the "tower of power" only square instead of circular.
The problem is that in the info that came with this jug, under
"Helpful Hints", I see "DO NOT USE JUGS AS CONTAINERS FOR HOT
LIQUIDS. Jugs perform best when used with ice to keep things
cold."  Intrigued, I called the 1-800 number for Coleman.  The
person I spoke to said the same thing as the "Tip."  When I
asked him about any possible problems with putting hot liquid
in the jug, he got evasive, and just reiterated their 
recommendation.

This 10 gallon "jug" was considerably cheaper than the prices
I have seen here in the HBD for the elusive, perhaps mythical
Gott "tower of power": $29.95 for the Coleman.  My question:
are there any nasty side effects of using coolers intended
only for cold liquids as mash and lauter tuns?  Will the 
plastic break down and leech into my wort?  Should I take the
10 gallon Coleman "jug" back and continue my quest for the
Gott cooler?

TIA,
Brad Humphreys 
Internet: Humphreys at UMBC2.UMBC.edu

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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 11:46 EDT
From: Alan_Marshall <AK200032 at Sol.YorkU.CA>
Subject: Propane Storage Safety

bgros at sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros), wrote:

> Is a leaky propane tank a common thing?  If storing the tank in the 
> garage or basement is bad, where do you store it?  Out in the backyard?
> Should you build a little box to protect the tank from the weather
> and keep it outside under the porch or something?

Last summer, the local firefighters came around offering safety 
inspections.  We discovered that it is quite dangerous and, in our
municipality illegal, to store a propane tank indoors or in the
garage.  A 20# tank has enough energy to destroy half our house.
They should be stored in the open.

Also, don't do what my parents did -- they spray painted the tank 
black so it would blend in with the barbeque.  This encouraged the 
tank to absord the energy of the sunlight, heating the tank and 
forcing the gas to leak.  It was estimated that they were losing about 
half their gas during the peak of summer.

Most propane dealers have literature and even videos on the safe use 
of propane.

Alan Marshall

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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 09:22:09 PDT
From: "Joe Stone" <JSTONE at SJEVM5.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: March MDX-3 Motor Speed Controller

  Has anyone out there used a motor speed controller in conjunction
with the March MDX-3 pump as described in the 1992 Special Issue of
Zymurgy?  I finally broke down and bought a recirculating pump.  I
was hoping for a little advice before running the smoke test.  You
can email me directly.

Joe

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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 09:30:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: malodah at pbgueuze.scrm2700.PacBell.COM (Martin Lodahl)
Subject: Extracts Again


The question of malt extract composition has come up with some
regularity over the years, but I must say that I was flabbergasted
to see Norman Farrel post this in HOMEBREW Digest #1411:

> 	...  AHA has set up a project to boil and analyze
> 25 different malt extracts (both liquid and dry).  Just Brew It. 
> club members will boil all the extracts under as similar conditions
> as possible and take a 500 ml. sample.  The samples will be sent
> to Siebel Inst. for testing.  I have not seen to full list of
> properties for testing but I will try to find out.  Results could
> be published in the Winter zymurgy.

The AHA sells 7 full-color pages of ads in every Zymurgy issue, and
six of them are generally bought by purveyors of extracts.  That
fact alone has long caused me to doubt that they'd ever seriously
address the extract question, and the fact that they'd even go
this far surprises me greatly.  By turning the preparation of the
worts over to a homebrew club, though, they've created the possibility
for enough inconsistency for the makers of the extracts to later
claim that the results aren't valid.  Before your club runs the
test I suggest you get a copy of the Paik, Low, Ingledew et al.
study, "Malt Extract:  Relationship of Chemical Composition to
Fermentability," Journal of the American Soc. of Brewing Chemists,
Vol. 49, 1991.  The methods described there assure a very high
degree of consistency.

Many lines further down, Edward C. Bronson (in an excellent posting!)
described calling Briess and speaking to someone I believe from the
context to have been Mary Anne Gruber:

>  		...  I was told by the Director of Brewing Services
>  that the "formulations were proprietary" and that the difference between
>  thier various extract products was "the addition of crystal malt and/or
>  chocolate malt and/or black malt" and that the choice of ingredients was
>  "determined by the style of beer that the extract was designed to produce."
>  Not too informative, to say the least.  When I asked her if she was willing
>  to tell me what I needed to know, she said that "she was being careful not
>  to tell me details."  After a polite thank you, the conversation was over.
>  I was very surprised.

I'm much less so.  Extract producers have never been candid about what's
in the stuff they sell, though I would imagine that they treat very
large-volume purchasers somewhat differently from pub-brewers and
homebrewers.  My article on the subject in Brewing Techniques ("Malt 
Extracts:  Cause for Caution," V. I, No. 2, July/August 1993), which 
draws heavily from the study cited above, shows that at least some
of them actually have something to hide, and it's my suspicion that
in one way or another, all of them do.  The assumption I started
with, that extracts are simply concentrated worts, is apparently
more than a little questionable.  I'm glad to see this question
come up, and I hope it leads to the sort of pressure that will cause
extract producers to clean up their act, just as yeast producers have.

	- Martin

= Martin Lodahl		Systems Analyst, Capacity Planning, Pacific*Bell =
= malodah at pacbell.com      Sacramento, CA USA	            916.972.4821 =
=    If it's good for ancient Druids runnin' nekkid through the wuids,   =
=  Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  (Unk.)   =


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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 11:36:55 CDT
From: Al Gaspar <gaspar at STL-17SIMA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: separate beer digests for extract and grain brewers 


Joan Donohue writes suggesting that we break the Homebrew Digest into
two parts.  My vote is no.  I get useful information from both
all-grain and extract postings.  Some postings apply equally to both--
hops, yeast, water, wort chillers, etc.  What happens to those?  Do we
have a third "common" digest?  Who does the work to determine which
articles go where?  

I sympathize with the time it takes to review the digest, but I find
that informative titles help a lot.  If the subject line says sparging,
and I'm not interested, I skip it.

Cheers--

Al

- -- 
Al Gaspar       <gaspar at stl-17sima.army.mil>
USAMC SIMA, ATTN:  AMXSI-TTC, 1222 Spruce St., St. Louis, MO  63103-2834
COMMERCIAL:  (314) 331-4354	AUTOVON:  555-4354
relay1.uu.net!stl-17sima.army.mil!gaspar

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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 09:39:52 -0700
From: Mark Bellefeuille <mcb at mcdpxs.phx.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: SS airstones, inline carbon filters

Re> The SS airstone attached to an aquarium pump (with an inline charcoal
filter) will get you up to 20% O2 sat., (since the air is 20% O2, 80% N2) 
within 30 min. 
 ..snip..
 I've been thinking about using a nebulizer with an airstone and filter
for aeration (the machine pumps filtered air through a solution which is 
then inhaled by the patient; so, it's just a fancy (expensive) air pump). 
Can SS airstones be found at the same stores as aquarium pumps?
In the literature, hbd, and r.c.b, the filters are always referred to as
'patient or sterile' filters. Did I miss the references to carbon filters?
Will an 'inline carbon' filter work as well as the patient filters?
And where would one get one of these filters? Approx cost?
TIA,
Mark

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark C. Bellefeuille                     INTERNET: mcb at phx.mcd.mot.com

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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 10:48:06 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Cool-er/ Moving Hops/ Kolsh/ Chuckles

In the low- water usage cooling system discussion:

	What I used to do was to have a bucket of ice water with spigot
placed on top of my fridge. This would run (via gravity) through 50 ft of 1/4"
copper tubing and collected the water into 5 gallon jugs.  The water could
be used for plants, topping up fish tanks, or simply saved for the next
brewing session. I used a bag or two of ice ($2/brew session or make your own)  
   	It usually took about 2-3 buckets to bring 10 gallons down to comfy
pitching temp.  The other addition was to have 20 ft of 3/8" copper tubing
in a bucket of ice water. When the warmed wort was racked from the pot to
carboys it was racked THROUGH the 2nd stage cooler and I was able to bring
the wort down to lagering temps in about a half hour total cooling.

	I tend to keep chloring solutions around, and add a little fresh
chloring everynow and then. Got some Cl test strips and they confirmed
that the 'ol dip finger, smell finger test was pretty much adequate.
If I didn't sense Cl with the snooter- it needed another splash.	
	Anyone know of any problems with hanging on to old chlorine solns?
Ok- besides sperm killage!

***
	Bad news from the electrical inspection.  I've been told the the house
does not have adequate electrical line-age to handle a window air conditioner.
Ugh-  there goes the dreams of a walk in cooler in the basement, unless I can
afford to upgrade the wiring/ replace fuse box with a breaker box.  $$$$'s
I'll have to debate this with the seller!  I don't think it'll help to tell
them it's for brewing purposes.  They're mormon!  Maybe if I said it was for
food storage for armageddon!
	Good news is that that room does have a vent to the outside, so it 
WILL be KOOL in the winter. At least I can manage some real lagering then. I 
think's its intended to be a root cellar type room.  
	Anyone know of any problem with having an earth floor (besides
termites- we're working on that!).  I could lay cement, but would rather not
bother if it's not needed.

	Hey at least I've got my gas Coyote Cooker (:) so I won't be taxing
the electric stove!  ANd I can still plug in my beer fridge in the garage.
All is not lost!  But I'd like to be able to safely plug in my computer!!!

***
MOVING HOPS:
	If they shoots are still fairly small, you're doing ok (under a foot
say).  You can dig them up- just dig a bigger hole than you think you'll need.
You will most certainly take out some roots in the process, but they will
survive a bit of root pruning without too much harm.
	I feel I've passed the point of safely transplanting mine. They are
about chest high on their stringers now, so I'll be moving cuttings, and my
new rhizomes to the new pad, and letting these remain. I've arranged to share
the harvest with the tenants.  I'm also probably gonna have someone move into
my apartment (when I move out) who is an avid -fairly- new brewer. The tenant
downstairs seemed to favor the idea when he learned the new guy has a kegging
setup- so when I move mine the house will not lose the capability.
Also- that way I can come back and fondly the cones, and share a brew with the
occupants once in a while!

	I have decided that rooting cuttings in water first, then planting
in soil is more effective than just sticking them in dirt. I have had both
work, but MUCH better success rate with liquid rooting first.  FWIW.
(Got some lady bugs yesterday- just waiting to be set free!!!)

***
I've got my first use of a Kolsh yeast underway.  Pardon my ignorance, but
is this considered a Lager yeast, or an ale? or is it in that fuzzy grey area
in between.  Seems to be a bottom fermenter and is acting more like lagers 
I've used.  I still don't have a good example of a Kolsh recipe. I just went
for pale malt, and some crystal. (touch of biscuit)  The only recipe I found
was Millers (2nd book) but was extract based so I don't know what REALLY in it!

Any tried and true Kolsh recipes? Experience with the yeast?
I haven't tried a Kolsh beer to my knowledge, so I'm not sure what the style
description involves. Any info?  		'Preciate it pals!

***
Chuckles:  
	Thanks to the folks that has e-mailed me saying they enjoy my
posts, and sense (or lack of?) humor. I know it's querky sometimes, and hard
to make a funny expression (face or voice) clear over the net...
To those of you who find me annoying, waster of bw..., abnoxious, sophmorish,
boorish, etc etc etc, well...as Bart has frequently sed, "Eat my shorts!" 8-\^
	But really- I'm glad that we can keep SOME humor in the digest.
If it was all techie crap we'd bore even ourselves!  And to anyone I've ever
truly offended...I probably didn't mean it, unless you REALLY deserved it!

**
I was wondering why Rich Webb was going to make a "baby immersion chiller",
just seems to me the squeals and commotion would be a little too much for my
nerves when that baby hit the hot wort, or ice water.  <Cringe- Shudder>

**
Another Rich was talking about Scotch ales and sleepiness, and dragon breath.

	Hmmm, could be that Scotch ales can be up to the strength of a 
barneywine, and might have the potency to start making you see purple dino-s.
My Barneywine was reported to have put a whiskey drinking insomniac to sleep
for the night.  That was flattering!  Seems like a powerful effect to me!
(did you hear? Barney can't sing "I love you, you love me..blah blah blah"!)

But if you're scotch ale had only an OG of 1.06-  well, maybe it's not that 
potent.  Try one a wee-heavier ...say in the 90's, then we'll KNOW!

But really- Hops are know to induce sleep.  You can drink a hop tea, or stuff
a pillow with hops to help insomnia- I mean to reduce, eliminate...make sleep!
You can calm a colichy baby by running a vaccuum, cure a headache by massaging
your thumb/palm.  These and more home-remedies are included in my book...
"How to make lots of money off of gullible TV watchers"  (Copywrite:Time Strife)

But really:  Check an herb book and they discuss the "medicinal" value of hops

As for the dragon breath:  Chew some parsley before going to bed.
Don't smoke cigars with your homebrew.  Brush your teeth. Keep a bottle of
Scope by the bedside. (and a spitoon)

In actuality: bad breath is caused by bacteria literally rotting in your
mouth.  They consume sugars and produce acid. Some of the products of 
their "fermentations" cause rancid smells. Halitosis is more likely after
a nights sleep when your salivary action has been at a minimum. THe natural
brushing of your tongue and gums, and flush of saliva tents to reduce bacterial
populations.  You can be tested for Dental Caries Susceptibility (acid prodtn)
Brushing with a baking soda toothpaste can reduce the acidity, and inhibit the
buggers. It's probably more likely that residual beer sugars are responsible
than yeast. Plus- excess drinking (common with yummy scotch's) will allow
alcohol vapor from the lungs to migrate through the nasal and oral canals.
Perhaps there are some hop-aroma components that also exit in vapor form. 

*	Anyone see last mondays episode of Northern Exposure? How do you think
Maggie the Dust Mite Mama would feel about the above story?   Imaging Joel
expaining it to her?  Nyuck- Nyuck- Nycuck.    No bedtime for Bonzo!

(FWIW: I enjoy a good cigar once in a while, but find them to interfere with
my homebrew enjoyment.  All I smell is the cigar aroma from my moustache,
rather than the rich hop aroma from my homebrews.  Oh well, every vice has its
downfall.  Even sex is supposed to kill brain cells.  Oh darn...)

    o
    |\            "That's a beer that feels good on my moustache!"
  |\| \/|   \-\-\-  John (The Coyote) Wyllie   SLK6P at cc.usu.edu  -/-/-/
   \    |      Originally in Logan, soon to be Smithfield (utah.   shhhhhh)
    ----


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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 10:54:48 +0900
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Toxic Zymurgy

I got this reply from Karen regarding the smell of the lastest issue of
Zymurgy. Sounds like they are aware of the problem.

>Bob, 
>
>I gotta agree with you - It doesn't just smell, it downright stinks!  We're
>looking into with our printer and hopefully we can avoid any repeated stinko
>pages from ever appearring again.
>
>Looking forward to Denver!
>
>Karen
>

Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



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Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 14:10:36 EDT
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Extract based oatmeal stout/Czech pils yeast update

I know that it has been a while since the question was asked but
William's Brewing makes an "Oatmeal Dark" extract if you want to make an
oatmeal stout without mashing.  It is $13.90 for 6 lbs of syrup (I
think).  I used it last summer and was very pleased.

*******************

Earlier I mentioned that I had a starter going from Wyeast's new Czech
Pils yeast that did not seem to flocculate well and produced a lot of
diacetyl.  Well, it seems that my starter temp was too high.  I
fermented a lager at 47^F and it did very well.  It has also packed down
better in the bottle than I was expecting.  I made two batches of Dave
Miller's "Bohemian Pilsner" from "Continental Pilsner";  I fermented one
with Wyeast Bavarian Lager and one with the Czech Lager.  It seems that
the Czech yeast likes the colder temps better; it conditioned much
faster at 47^F.  I am quite pleased with it.  Now I'll have to see if my
palate can tell the difference!
- --
Jim Grady             
grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1412, 04/30/94