FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Quick Disconnect for CO2 (wyatt)
   (TJWILLIA)
  mouth germs (Btalk)
  Sam Adams recipe suggestions ("Ball, Timothy B")
  Enough about the Malt Mill! ("Rich Scotty")
  NEBS (Jack Schmidling)
  Re: "brewKing" mini-kegs (David Knight)
  Pump info request (Jim Dipalma)
   (TJWILLIA)
  Re: Carbonation question and a gizmo. (jloewen)
  boring millspeak (Jim Doyle)
  Sanke EasyTap (Bob Jones)
  Krauesening answers (Jack Skeels)
  Glatt Mill observations ("DEV::SJK")
  Stuck mead, sparge S.G. temp., carbonation, rust spots (Nancy.Renner)
  Re: More ramblings on (Jim Busch)
  beginner's Primary firmentation question (Karl Elvis MacRae)
  SRM / Carbonation (npyle)
  Infusion mashing a Weizen? (Steve Zabarnick)
  SG vs Temp Corrections (Stephen Hansen)
  Tired of mill debate?? (David Holsclaw)
  Schmidling you kidder.../Newcastle questions ("McGaughey, Nial")
  SG of a Mixture/NY Beer Fest ("JAMES W. KEESLER")
  Suction by Mouth, Ga. Craft Brewers (Patricia M Moline)
  Motorized Mash Tun (Don Put)


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For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 25 May 94 11:32:01 pst
From: wyatt at Latitude.COM
Subject: Quick Disconnect for CO2

        I have been wanting to add a CO2 line into my refrigerator but I 
     don't want the hose to just hang out when I'm not using the gas.  Has 
     anyone used some kind of quick disconnect fittings mounted in the 
     refrigerator?  It seems to me that there must be fittings like this 
     but I haven't been able to find them.  I was planning to use them with 
     some one way valves and a splitter inside the refrigerator to supply 
     gas to multiple kegs.  
     
        I was also wondering if anyone knows where I can find a good 
     microscope cheap preferably used (for cost reasons).  I know you can 
     just stripe cultures but a microscope would be a lot of fun and better 
     too.  I don't know if I really need it as I already have too much junk 
     but oh well you know how it is.

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Date: Thu,  26 May 94 07:40:32 EDT
From: <TJWILLIA%OCC.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: 

signoff beer-l


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Date: Thu, 26 May 94 07:54:03 EDT
From: Btalk at aol.com
Subject: mouth germs

How about this for a simple experiment- gargle w/beer and then bottle it. See
what happens. 
Also try an alcohol gargle, then bottle gargled beer to see how much of an
effect an alcohol rinse has on the cooties in your mouth.
Any takers?
regards,
Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY<btalk at aol.com>


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Date: Thu, 26 May 94 08:25:00 PDT
From: "Ball, Timothy B" <ballti at uh2372p03.daytonoh.NCR.COM>
Subject: Sam Adams recipe suggestions


I am trying to make an ale version of Sam Adams lager (for my girl friend of 
course).  This is what I am thinking:

6.6 lbs.  pale North Western liquid X
1 lb.  Laglander amber dry X
1lb. crystal 20L
 .5 lb malto dextrin
Hallertaur  about 40 IBU
Tettnanger 3/4 oz finishing
Tettnanger 1/4 oz dry hop


I know Sams starting gravity is about 1.053 and this recipe will be around 
1.060 but I would rather error on the heavy side.
The last pale I made using North Western pale and Wyeast London started at 
1.053 but didn't have as much body as Sam Adams.
Any recommendations?  Does 40 IBU sound about right?

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Date: 26 May 1994 07:38:33 U
From: "Rich Scotty" <rscotty at denitqm.ecte.uswc.uswest.com>
Subject: Enough about the Malt Mill!

                      Subject:                              Time:  7:33 AM
  OFFICE MEMO         Enough about the Malt Mill!!!         Date:  5/26/94
Jack - I own your product.  I love your product, but I have to say that I think
you are damaging your own business prospects by continuing these lengthy,
abrasive posts comparing your product to the competition.

We *KNOW* that you believe your mill is the superior product - quit telling us
so on a weekly basis.  It is a waste of bandwidth and a waste of space on the
HBD.  You have gotten to the point that you are merely re-wording the same
information time after time after time.

I believe that as you continue these lengthy epistles, you are losing
potiential customers.  Right now, I don't feel much like doing business with
you and I suspect others out there feel the same way.

*PLEASE* stop.  Now.

Rich Scotty
"Under the most carefully controlled conditions, yeast will do as it damn well
pleases."



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Date: Thu, 26 May 94 09:19 CDT
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: NEBS

 
 >From: Dwight Walker <walkd01 at bwco.com>
 >Subject: NE Brew Supply
 
 >Does anyone know what happened to NorthEast Brew Supply?
 
 I suspect they got their just deserts.   They have the dubious distinction of 
 being the only deadbeat homebrew retailer out of several hundred I have done 
 business with.  They owe me for mills purchased over a year ago, some of 
 which were dropped shipped directly to their customers.  They would not 
 return calls or answer letters for the past six months.
 
 Put simply, Kerry Brown is a crook and enough suppliers got stung by him that 
 he is now out in the cold.   It is now clear how he could claim the lowest 
 prices in the country.  It's easy when you don't pay for your supplies.  Why 
 anyone would trust him with a check or credit card is more than I can fathom.
 
 What is truly bizarre is that I got a prepaid order from Providence Homebrew 
 recently and when I checked it out, I found that the store front said North 
 East Brewers Supply and the owner claimed to be paying NE for the use of the 
 name.  I told him that as long as he was using the name, I was going to hold 
 his check hostage for payment of my back invoices and I never heard another 
 word from him.   He may be totally innocent but what goes around comes 
 around.
 
 >From: Don Put <dput at csulb.edu>
 
 >Subject: Mashtun Design
 
 >Now I know that what the "big boys" do doesn't necessarily translate to our 
 own small-scale brewing setups (this disclaimer is for js, who likes to point 
 this out occasionally :-)...
 
 However, there are exceptions and great minds seem to find them.  If I was 
 not so busy making mills I would have tried what you are doing long ago.  I 
 was even going to pick up a gear motor from ASC the next time I got over 
 there for exactly that purpose.  Just so happens, that I find stirring the 
 mash a pain in the butt but not enough of a pain to use the plastic cooler 
 appraoch.
 
 >The motor was purchased from American Science and Surplus and provides a
 continuous 154 rpms with 30 inch lbs. of torque.
 
 The only comment I have on your approach is that  I would use a slower motor 
 and mount it directly over the kettle and eliminate the pullies and belts.
 
 > With the pulley arrangement I have, the paddle moves at ~35
 rpms with a total torque of ~90 inch lbs. 
 
 It is interesting that we (my wife with a stop watch and me stirring) came up 
 with roughly the same number.  However, it will depend on the shape of the 
 paddle which I really have not firmed up yet.  I can't tell from your drawing 
 the shape of it but will be very interested in knowing how it works out.
 I have the additional problem of needing to keep clear of the EASYMASHER and 
 this may preclude it from working at all.
 
 >The maiden voyage for this beast is this weekend.  Any suggestions or
 comments (other than the fact that I am crazy!)? 
 
 No, just another great mind trying to make brewing more fun.
 
 
 > One other thing, while perusing some of the older HBDs, I noticed a system 
 that was marketed back around 1990 that was called the Automash(tm) system.  
 Does anyone out there use one of these?  Does anyone know anything about 
 them?
 
 I asked this same question a few weeks ago and heard nothing.  My very first 
 all grain batch was made using the mash schedule provided by someone who 
 owns/owned one but I lost his name.
 
 Keep us posted.
 
 p.s.  Just got back from ASC with two gear motors to try on next batch
 
 JS
 
 
 
 

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Date: Thu, 26 May 94 10:19:54 EDT
From: David Knight <dknight at ren.iterated.com>
Subject: Re: "brewKing" mini-kegs

In HBD #1433, Ray Deininger asked a few questions about the Brew King 5 liter
mini-kegs.  I've used these kegs for several batches and find them to be a
great alternative to 'real' kegging.  I am using the plastic tap and the
16 gram (large) CO2 cartridges.  In response to Ray's questions:

    1) Should the beer be primed as usual?

    I've experimented with this, and found that you should use a little over
    half of your usual priming amount (about 1/3 - 1/2 cup, or about 2 oz.).
    I over-primed once, and now have a couple of bent kegs due to the 
    pressure.

    2) Will the plastic plug be blown off?

    Nope.  Not even when I primed with 3/4 cup of sugar.  Make sure that you
    insert the 'inner' plastic plug into the 'outer' rubber plug through
    the bottom, so that the only way to get it out is by pushing the tap
    through the rubber plug through the top.  It sounds complicated, but
    just think about it for a minute before inserting and it will make sense.

    3) If I don't drink it all in one sitting, will the CO2 cartridge keep
       it fresh?

    Absolutely.  I've used one up over the span of three weeks with no problems
    or off flavors.

    4) Should I keep it or return it?

    I'd definitely keep it, unless you have the space and inclination for 
    kegging in 5 gallon kegs.  It greatly reduces bottling time and I find
    it extremely convenient to just fill up a glass from the fridge without
    searching for a bottle opener and then rinsing out the bottle afterwards.

Here are a few other hints:

Insert the tap without the CO2 cartridge and use natural pressure to dispense
the first few glasses of beer (don't forget that the first half a glass will
contain most of the yeast from the bottom).  After the natural pressure has
tapered off, insert the CO2 cartridge and screw on the cap FIRMLY.  If there is
a CO2 leak, you should feel it through the little hole on the back of the cap.
Then, turn the valve until you hear the CO2 flowing into the keg.  I usually
let it flow for a couple of seconds and then shut off the valve before
dispensing.  Then dispense until you need more CO2 and repeat.  Using this
technique, I've gotten a single CO2 cartridge to last for 2 full kegs.

Good luck!  Let me know if you have any other questions.


 -Dave Knight
dknight at ren.iterated.com

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Date: Thu, 26 May 94 10:33:19 EDT
From: dipalma at sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: Pump info request


    Hi All,

    I'm putting together a 3 tier brewing system, and am in the market
for a pump.  I'd like to use it to recirculate the mash, and to move
the wort from the kettle to the fermenter.  I'm especially interested in
the following info:

Price
Name and address of supplier
Type and rate of flow
Details (type of drive, what temperature range, food grade, etc.)
Tips on cleaning and sanitation procedures

       TIA,
       Jim

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Date: Thu,  26 May 94 10:03:41 EDT
From: <TJWILLIA%OCC.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: 

cancel article 05260541.16985


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Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 10:14:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: jloewen at CC.UManitoba.CA
Subject: Re: Carbonation question and a gizmo.

COTE_FRANK at Tandem.COM asked:
> 
> How does carbonation work?  
> 
Hi Frank!
   CO2 is also a major byproduct of fermentation.  In the carboy it escapes
through the air-lock.  In a sealed bottle there is no escape for the CO2 so
it disolves into the beer...carbonation!  I'm sure alcohol is also produced
in the bottle, but with the amount of sugar added the alcohol produced is
neglible.

- --jj 


   --== Jarrod J. Loewen    Systems Operator    University of Manitoba ==--

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Date: Wed, 25 May 1994 08:37:00 -0700
From: Jim Doyle <jgdoyle at uci.edu>
Subject: boring millspeak

OK, OK, Enough with the mill-speak.  I now know that JS is definitely
over-defensive about his mill, everybody else seems to think it is about
the same as the glatt, the MM(tm) is either less or more expensive
depending on which model you buy, and now (after today's glamorous
description) I wonder if I can get one with a rich, Corinthian leather
dashboard?

I, personally would probably buy a MM(tm) just because I know where I can
find the person responsible for its existance in case of emergency
(hehe)...

Jack may have summed it up himself with the following clip...

>I may be a little thick-headed and 
> biased but I just don't understand why people wait in line for them.



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Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 08:50:58 +0900
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Sanke EasyTap

!!!!!! WARNING !!!!! The following post is NOT about Malt Mills !!!!!!!!!!

Since I have been building my yeast up to proper pitching ratios I have
experienced as much as 20% blowoff from my 5 gal carboy fermenters. I have
decided to switch to a 15 gal Sanke keg as a fermenter to eliminate this
problem. Fermenting in these vessels creates a new set of problems, one of
which is getting the beer out of the keg without lifting it up for gravity
siphon. I have come up with a new method and thought this would be a good
place to discribe it. First a brief summary of the steps involved.

1. Brew beer and gravity drain to clean 15 gal Sanke fermenter located in
frig. This requires that the bottom of the kettle be located higher than the
highest level to be filled in the fermenter. I usually brew 10 gal batches.
2. Place stopper/airlock into tap hole on top of keg. When the tap assembly
is removed, a #11 1/2 stopper fits fine. Now we got a standard fermenter
with a 5 gal head space.
3. After fermentation is complete. Place the sanitized tap assembly into the
keg and push the fermented beer out to corni. kegs. This is accomplished by
tilting the keg in the frig and inserting the assembled tap into the keg
fermenter, then tighten the bolt to seal the tap assembly.

Now I will attempt to describe what makes this unique, The special tap
assembly aka EasyTap

My goal was to figure out how to reseal the keg tap assembly without
reinstalling the original retainer ring. Looks sort of like this........



                               ____
                              [____] screw down to tighten tap
                               |  |      and make seal
                               |  |
                      ----------------------
                      |        :  :        |
                      |   |------------|   |
                      |   |    |  |    |   |  U shaped clamp
                      |   |    |  |    |   |
                      |   |    |  |    |   |
                      |   |    \__/    |   |
                      |   |            |   |
                      |   |    |-----  |   |
                      |   |    |  |--  |   | <-- 90 deg elbow in liquid out line
                      |   |   |    |   |   |
            tap -->   |   |   |    |   |   |
                      |   < ---------- >   |  <---- notchs to grab tap on keg
                      |___|  |      |  |___|
                             |      |
                             |      |
                      --------      --------- keg

The U shaped clamp is made of 3/4 aluminum plate. It has two notches in it
that just fit the lip on the sanke keg. The original sanke tap that was in
the keg is attached to the beer tap used for dispensing beer from the keg.
The original seal for the sanke tap required a special ring that when
inserted and pushed the tap assembly down, making a seal with the rubber
gasket located on the bottom of the tap. The tap also has to be modified to
allow screwing in a 90 deg elbow at the top liquid out line. I did this by
drilling and tapping the inside of the tap. The elbow then provides a place
to push down on with the screw. I also placed a copper cap on the end of the
tap down tube to minimize sludge pickup.

Hope all this makes some sense. Seems to work very well. Before you decide
to switch to fermenting in 15 gal sanke kegs, you should consider the weight
of a full keg and how you are going to manage moving the beer around.

I'll bring this gadget and my sparker tap to Denver with me.

See some of you in Denver,

Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



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Date: Thu, 26 May 94 12:13 EST
From: Jack Skeels <0004310587 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Krauesening answers

Many thanks to all who responded about Krauesening and my idea to batch
produce the "gyle" for use in later brews.  

A couple of people pointed out that I would also need to pitch new yeast
into the gyle before priming, if I truly wanted to replicate what the big
boys do. I actually like this idea, as I was a little worried about
infections and the like, and it seems that this would make the whole thing
work a bit better.

One person said that I shouldn't combine different types of worts,, but my
sense is still that a neutral grain, combined with the relatively small
quantity wouldn't cause much impact (???)

Most of the responses said "Why Bother?" in one way or another, with a large
number of them even advocating the use of cane sugar (gasp!).

As I have just purchased a Cache Cooker from Camp Chef (two burners, 60K
btu, rugged as all get-out) and don't want to introduce too many variables
at once, I think that I'll... oh what the heck --- I'm going to try it! 
Thanks for the advice, and I'll keep y'all posted.

**

Also many thanks for the tips on the Sankey keg conversion project (Jack's
Big Keg Project) that I'll be doing next weekend with my new best-friend (
the guy with the kegs to spare ;-)

Most folks said that I should get (rent) a Sawzall brand reciprocating saw
and cut the top off at the seam, leaving the handles on the keg.  We'll be
doing this.

Hope your brewing weekend is a Memoriable one!

Jack Skeels
JSKEELS at MCIMAIL.COM

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Date: 26 May 94 12:55:00 CST
From: "DEV::SJK" <SJK%DEV.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Glatt Mill observations


My buddy and I recently got the first of our two Glatt Mills.  Big
disclaimer:  I've crushed a total of <6lbs with the GM and I've never even
seen a MM, let alone used one as I really had no opportunity to try ANY
mill for myself before buying.  I don't mean to expound the virtues of one
over the other because I can't.  Only to share some observations on the GM
as it currently exists.

Al says in HBD 1432:

> I personally believe it is reasonable to compare the Glatt or any other
> mill to the fixed JSP MaltMill.  I used a fixed MM for crushing customer's

It has been my very limited experience that VERY small adjustments in the
gap of the GM produce WILDLY varying qualities of crush.  Particularly in
the integrity of the husks.  And by "wildly" I mean the husk quality ranged
from almost completely intact to quite severely shredded.  I crushed 2.5lbs
of pale 2-row, 3lbs of Biscuit, and .25lbs of Special B and readjustment of
the roller gap was necessary for all three kinds of malt to get it just
right.  There may be a good compromise set-and-forget setting, but I didn't
experiment enough to find it.

My conclusion is not that adjustability is a requirement for a mill, only
that adjustability is a good thing in the case of the GM.  Perhaps the MM
delivers a great crush without adjustability due to the design of it's
rollers, or ...?

The current incarnation of the GM is made almost entirely of stainless
steel except for the rollers which are 10-18 cold-rolled steel (whatever
that is).  Also, it has longitudinally grooved rollers rather than a
knurled design as I think was mentioned.

We just talked with Greg Glatt about the gears and he said that he tested a
GM with aquarium gravel and that the bushing shear-pin failed before the
gears did.  He said that the gears are made from Tefeon-Nylon (sp?).  They
are quite thick with very large teeth and look pretty sturdy to me.

Lastly, the warantee is for 1 year rather than 90 days as suggested by Jack
in HBD 1428.


Scott Kaczorowski
sjk%c17fcs.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com



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Date: Thu, 26 May 94 12:58:14 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Stuck mead, sparge S.G. temp., carbonation, rust spots

>From *Jeff* Renner 
 
Norm Pyle asks about stuck mead fermentation.  I spoke to fellow Ann Arbor 
Brewer's Guild member and mead guru Dan McConnell (he is speaking on meads 
at the National next month).  He feels that a common cause of slow mead 
fermentation is too low pH, like in the 2's.  Best fermentation pH for meads 
is 3.7-3.9, and it often plunges from yeast metabolic byproducts, since mead 
is not buffered the way beer is.  Check the pH and adjust up with CaCO3.  He 
also feels that acid adjustment with acid blend is better done at the end of 
fermentation. 
 
Jim Kendall asks about the temperature for SG reading of sparge runnings.  I 
always cool it to 60^F before reading SG.  It isn't much trouble.  I put a 
cup of hot wort into a small stainless bowl, and in the winter set it in a 
snowbank.  The rest of the year I put it in a larger bowl with ice and 
water.  Spin it a few times over 3 or 4 minutes and you're there.  BTW, I 
think 1.005 may be a bit low; you are risking extracting silicates and 
tannins for very little additional extract.  I generally stop at 1.008 or 
so.  Be sure to monitor the pH and stop if it goes over 6. 
 
Frank Cote asks how carbonation works; his yeast produces alcohol during the 
ferment and carbonation in the bottle.  The answer, Frank, is that the yeast 
*knows*.  Just like a Thermos bottle.  You know.  You put hot coffee in it 
and it stays hot; cold tea and it stays cold.  How does it know?  Well 
actually, the yeast is fermenting exactly the same both times, producing 
about equal weights of alcohol and CO2.  In the main ferment, you get a 
steady CO2 production making a pretty good head, or kraeusen, but it is over 
a period of some days.  You see more head when you open a bottle and pour 
the beer.  That's because you capped the bottle, trapping all that slowly 
produced CO2 and super saturating the beer.  Much of it is released all at 
once when you pour it, making it more apparent.  All that bottle CO2 
represents an equal weight of alcohol.  So yes, your beer becomes more 
alcoholic in the bottle, maybe about 0.25%. 
 
Back a few weeks, Dana Edgell asked about rust spots on his enamel kettle.  
I wouldn't worry.  I just retired my trusty 33 qt. kettle after 15 years 
when the handle weld began to rust and leak, but it picked up its first chip 
fairly early and more followed.  While you don't want iron in your brew 
(over about 4 or 5 ppm it begins to inhibit the yeast), I never had any 
trouble with that or metallic flavor. 
 
Jeff

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Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 14:23:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: More ramblings on

Al writes:
> 
> Subject: SRM colors/dextrin malt/nastie by-products/sanitation
> 
> Okay, to contribute something useful and since I started this whole "don't
> use your mouth to start a siphon" thread, I'll post my siphon starting
> technique.  Basically it relies on the previous liquid starting the next
> liquid through the siphon and using a hose clamp (not my fingers) to keep
> the liquid in the hose when changing to a different liquid.

Al, no fingers!??  What do use, a set of sterile medical surgical gloves?

> 1. fill siphon hose with water
> 2. use the water to siphon sanitizer into the hose
> 3. use the sanitizer to siphon rinse water through the hose
> 4. use the rinse water to siphon the wort/raw_beer through the hose
> 	(discard the first cup or so)
> If bottling:
> 5. use the raw_beer to siphon the primed beer through the hose
> 	(discard the first cup or so)

Sounds like a 20 minute hose sanitation job :-) 

Different strokes....

Jim Busch


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Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 11:53:00 -0700
From: Karl Elvis MacRae <kmac at cisco.com>
Subject: beginner's Primary firmentation question


	Ok, so, finally, after getting my brew kit and my new baby
	right around the same time (Christmas), I finally found the 
	time and the energy at the same time enough to brew my first
	batch (The fact that my wife is done nursing the kid and now has
	a renewed interest in beer being a major factor in this =B^)).

	So, my question is about primary firmentation. I'm doing primary
	firmentation in a plastic bucket with a firmentation lock (Per
	my brew shop's instructions), and I'm wondering if my firmentation
	is stalling out.

	I pitched my yeast Sunday evening. By Tuesday morning, it was 
	bubbling so hard the lock sounded lick a ticking clock. This
	went on all day tuesday.

	But by wednesday, it had slowed WAY down, and now, (Noon Thursday),
	it's just producing one bubble every 1-2 minutes. 

	Is this a normal rate? Or is it stalling? The book (Papazian)
	and the instructions don't say anything about how hard or how fast 
	it should be bubbling, just that it should be bubbling.

	My yeast was very fresh (Wyeast american ale yeast), and I'm 
	fermenting at room tempreature in my office, which stays right
	around 70f.


			-Karl

  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  Karl Elvis MacRae	Software Release Support	Cisco Systems
  batman at cisco.com     415-688-8231 DoD#1999       1993 Vulcan Eighty-Eight 
  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  "One pig to rule them all, One pig to bind them; One pig to bring them 
    all and on the pier-end find them..."            -William Ashbless

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Date: Thu, 26 May 94 13:04:38 MDT
From: npyle at n33.ecae.stortek.com
Subject: SRM / Carbonation

I for one would like to see Neil Flatter's color calculations based on
Michelob Dark.  Funny isn't it, that the only value Michelob Dark adds to
this earth is that its color is a good reference?  So you see, it actually
has one up on Beck's Dark...

**

Regarding Frank Cote's carbonation question, it isn't as mysterious as it
seems.  The first time the yeast get some food (I'm ignoring the aerobic
reproduction phase), they produce alcohol and CO2 (and lots of other stuff).
The second time they get some food (at bottling time) they also produce
alcohol and CO2.  The confusion arises because during fermentation we allow
the CO2 pressure to escape and during bottling we ignore the (admittedly
small amount of) alcohol produced.  In one case the discussions (at times)
center around the alcohol being produced, and in the other case the
discussions are always about the CO2 being produced.  That's all.

Cheers,
Norm = npyle at n33.stortek.com

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Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 12:39:33 -0700
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com>

Subject: Recipe for Honey Bucket Bracket

Michael Hall, who was one of the judges at the
Duke's of Ale Spring Thing competition held receintly
in Albuquerque, New Mexico, wanted the recipe of the mead
that I had entered. It took honors for the best
mead of the competition. This is my attempt at
supplying the recipe.

It's not actually a mead, but something called a
bracket or braggot. The American Mead Association
is of very little use in supplying a definition of the style,
only saying that the mix has to have at least half of it's
fermentables comming from the added honey.

The idea was to make a batch of beer and a batch of
mead and slam the two together. Thus a beer was made
(at a very low hopping rate), and a lot of honey was added to it.

It was a dark and stormy New Year's Eve.
25 lbs of Honey Malt (17 degrees L) were mashed at 156
degrees until starch test showed complete saccrification.
The mash was sparged at 164 degrees. This wort was brought
to a boil. The color contribution of this malt was
estimated at approximately 60 degrees SRM.

39 grams of Saaz hop flowers (at 6.0% acid)
was added for a proposed 60 minute boil.

130 grams of shredded ginger root was added for a
proposed 15 minute boil.

1 TBL of Irish Moss was added for a proposed 10
minute boil.

At the end of the 60 minutes, I added 12 lbs
of Schneider's blackberry honey. Heat continued,
even though the wort wasn't boiling. After 25 minutes,
the boil resumed, and I added 1 TBL of acid blend.
After another 10 minutes of boil, the heat was
turned off, the imersion cooler was inserted, and
cooling was begun.

I used Red Star Montrachet dry yeast in this batch.
The first package was added when the wort was still
too hot (oops!), so another package was added later,
before obvious signs of fermentation had begun.

All of the above yeilded about 8 gallons of wort,
whose specific gravity was 1.112. The actual
hopping rate was estimated at 22 IBU, not
including the acid added. The final gravity
reading was 1.052, with the resulting alcohol
at approximately 6.4%.

Racking occured on 13 Jan 94.

Bottling took place on 25 Jan 94, giving just
under one month of fermenting. Priming sugar
consisted of 1/2 cup corn sugar, 2 cups of
water, and 1 tsp ascorbic acid. In truth, the
batch always tasted a little funny, and I can't
really say that I care for Bracket/Braggot.
Because I used Honey malt, I called this brew
Honey Bucket Bracket. Dark as the night, and
thicker than sin!

Judges comments:
Michael Hall gave it 42 points.
Good honey expression! Roasted malt comes throught too!
Fairly clear, good head retention. Good honey task. Good
roasted malt taste. Nice complex task. This is the most
interesting mead we've tasted! Nice balance of mead
and beer. Very good idea! I could drink a lot of this
(slowly...) on a winter night.

Bill Terborg gave it 45 points.
Complex nose. Very nice. Great color and very clear.
Ver nice - complex, malt strong, yet honey in
background. Good balance - sweet & acid.
Great mead! Publish the recipe so we can all enjoy!

William deVries gave it 37 points.
Good solid honey/malt aroma. Nicely balanced,
almost smoky. Honey exudes throughout, bitter
component masks the modifying sweetness, but
not too badly. Malt flavor aids the complexity.
Nice even flavors cause a pleasant and lasting
impression.

Enjoy!

Rich Webb
*****************************************************

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Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 16:02:05 -0500
From: steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick)
Subject: Infusion mashing a Weizen?

The release of the (relatively) new Wyeast 3068 Weizen yeast has gotten me
interested in attempting a Bavarian Weizen beer. But, to date I have only
done single infusion mashing. I am aware that Eric Warner's book implies
that decoction mashing is required for a good weizen. I am also aware that
a protein rest is recommended for mashes with wheat malt. I would like to
avoid the hassle of decoction or step mashing (I mash in a cooler). Has
anyone tried making a Bavarian Weizen with a single step infusion mash? Any
thoughts on how this might turn out? I'm not trying to make an award
winning beer, just a good clovey weizen. Should I give it a try? Thanks.

Steve Zabarnick


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Date: Thu, 26 May 94 13:45:10 -0700
From: Stephen Hansen <hansen at gloworm.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: SG vs Temp Corrections

A file containing a table of correctin factors for specific gravity
vs. temperature can be found at the sierra.stanford.edu archives.
For those of you with ftp access it is in /pub/homebrew/docs/sg_vs_temp.
Those of you who use the listserver will just request it with a
"get sg_vs_temp" line in the message.

Someone recently wrote a message pointing out that the sg vs temp
correction calculations are dependent on many factors and hard to
get right.  However, I take the engineering approach and just say,
"Close enough."  My hydrometer can resolve things much closer than
half a point anyway.

Stephen Hansen

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
 Stephen E. Hansen - hansen at sierra.Stanford.EDU  | "The church is near,
 Electrical Engineering Computer Facility        |  but the road is icy.
 Applied Electronics Laboratory, Room 218        |  The bar is far away,
 Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-4055    |  but I will walk carefully."
 Phone: +1-415-723-1058   Fax: +1-415-723-1294   |      -- Russian Proverb
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

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Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 16:03:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: dhholscl at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (David Holsclaw)
Subject: Tired of mill debate??

Is anyone else tired of listening to the MM vs. Glatt debate?

I am even thinking of buying a mill and I am tired of listening to Jack's daily
propaganda and the latest round of Glatt information/misinformation.

My suggestion is take it to private mail if you really care, but I for one am
sick of tripping through all the clutter every day!

- --
David Holsclaw (Flame Suit On)
dhholscl at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu

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Date: Thu, 26 May 94 12:07:00 PDT
From: "McGaughey, Nial" <nmcgaugh at hq.walldata.com>
Subject: Schmidling you kidder.../Newcastle questions


Ob Schmidling:
>Thus far,the choices seem to be a Model T, a Yugo, a VW and a
>Rolls Royce

So which is the Rolls Royce? Do you know of a Rolls that:

>has bronze bearings in lieu of plastic

Gee, I thought the mindset at Rolls Royce was to make the worlds
best... so where are the sealed (swiss???) roller bearings on your mill?
The leather wrapped handle? (the horrible Lucas electrical parts :)
Your mill is at best a Lincoln or Cadillac, but _not_ a Rolls..

>The MM dwells on a separate plane from other mills.  Its
>supreme performance virtually forcloses any situation where
>one would even consider an alternative.  The malt flows over
>the rollers while you bask in near limousine comfort.
>However, motorizing your MM would squander a sublime
>pleasure.  Elegant polished aluminum, natural fiberboard,<--*huh?*
>dual massive rollers, smooth rolling oil-impregnated
>bearings and the finest assembly staff in the world, enhance
>this monument to perfection.  But no single feature
>distinguishes the MM; its glory is the way all is
>synthesized into an awesome, incomparable whole.

Gag.. barf.. retch.. (anyone else hear violins and angels while
reading this??)
Schmidling Uber Alles!!

Sorry about the length..

Ob Beer:
has anyone here tried the Line recipe for Newcastle Brown Ale?
was it close?
What was your substitute for the saccharin tablets?(other than lactose)

Yours In temporary empowerment
Nial McGaughey

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Date: 26 May 94 20:20:16 EDT
From: "JAMES W. KEESLER" <74021.376 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: SG of a Mixture/NY Beer Fest

Btalk at aol.com writes:

>My first question today-  How do you figure specific gravity that results
>from diluting a known gravity and volume with a known volume of water? In
>this case I diluted 7 gal of 1.067 into 10 gal. and didn't use my hydrometer
>on the new volume.
>In Papazian's book he has a little chart and also says that the rate of
>dilution and change in specific gravity are not the same at various
>densities.
>Is there a formula that handles this? Or even a more complete chart or graph?

A simple way to do this is to use the following formula:

(v1)(sg1) + (v2)(sg2) = (vT)(sgT)

where:
v=volume
sg=specific gravity at 60F
1= first liquid
2=second liquid
T=total

so to apply this to your problem

(7gal)(1.067) + (3gal)(1.000) = (10gal)(sgT)

solving gives sgT=1.047

By the way, does anyone know if there will be a second New York Beer Fest?
The first one under the Brooklyn Bridge was excellent (except for the lack of
sufficient bathroom facilities) and I haven't heard if they're doing it again
this year.  Any info appreciated.  E-mail OK, but there may be others who want
to know, so posting OK too.  TIA

Regards,
Jim Keesler
Compuserve 74021,376


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Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 20:28:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: Patricia M Moline <pmoline at ksu.ksu.edu>
Subject: Suction by Mouth, Ga. Craft Brewers

In the ongoing debate regarding induction of suction for racking and 
bottling, I have been surprised that there has been no mention of the 
method I employ, a bulb syringe. This is a two piece device; a 5 or 6 
inch long plastic barrel of approx 1 inch diameter, tapering at one end in a 
conical fashion, and at the other end flaring out to acceptthe other 
piece, a rubber bulb. Known as an 'asepto' (tm) or bulb syringe in the 
medical field, it is more commonly known and widely available as an oven 
or turkey baster.
This simple toool is easily sanitized by bleach or iodophor, rinsed (or 
not), assembled, the bulb squeezed, the distal tip inserted into the 
racking tube (the tapering end easily accommodates a range of I.D. 
sizes), and when the bulb is released, VOILA, instant sanitized suction!
Then crimp the racking tube to occlude flow, replace the syringe with 
whatever bottling device you prefer and away you go.
BTW, the medical 'asepto' is autoclavable for 10 min. cycles.

John <PRATTE at GG.csc.peachnet.edu> in HBD 1425, commented on Georgia's 
1st micro setting up shop. Excellent news for a state that only recently 
decriminalized homebrewing (July 1, 93). But I wish to make those 
interested aware of a grass roots campaign to introduce and pass 
legislation in Ga., permitting brewpubs through amending the three tier 
system. This would also allow restaurant owners to own all or part of a 
micro, allow b-pubs and micros easier access to distribution channels for 
their product.
The organization, called the Georgia Association of Craft Brewers, 
P.O.Box 15437, Atlanta, Ga, 30333, has an info line, 404-998-7898, and 
would appreciate the support of brewers in Ga, for petitions and letters 
of support to legislators. They would also appreciate the assistance of 
others from outside Ga. who have any advice or info you may feel to be 
helpful. Their phone line is also an auto switched fax.
The organization plans to file for not for profit status in the next few 
months to allow for tax deductibility purposes, for those who wish to 
support their goals. At present, GACB consists of a few individuals, most 
of whom are already involved in craft brewing or are planning businesses 
in future. They do not solicit contributions, corporate sponsorships, or 
currently charge dues for membership.
I have no affiliation with the GACB, other than that as the recently 
resigned prez of the Savannah Brewers' League, (I recently moved to 
Kansas), my name was on the mailing list they acquired from AHA. But, I feel 
they are fighting the good fight. At this time only 4 states prohibit 
brewpubs, and Hawaii is expected to pass this year. This leaves South 
Carolina, Mississippi and Georgia. These guys hope that their effort will 
result in Ga. not being the last to offer its residents choices and 
opportunities available in the more civilized states (my opinion).
Just thought you might like to know.

Rob Moline
Rule # 1- Remember who your mates are!
Rule # 2- Remember who your mates aren't!
Rule # 3- KNOW THE BLOODY DIFFERENCE!
  

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Date: Thu, 26 May 1994 20:30:37 -0700
From: Don Put <dput at csulb.edu>
Subject: Motorized Mash Tun


Well, after waiting over a week for a friend to send me the SS couplings for
the thermometer well, I drove off the hill and bought them.  So it's off
to the welders in the am on Friday, and it's the big test run on Saturday.
I'll let you know how it worked.

I got a lot of good feedback on the original post (thanks to all who sent
me suggestions/observations) and it is the general consensus that the paddle
design is of the utmost importance to get the proper mixing action.  I've 
finished the paddle (and it looks nothing like the pathetic ascii diagram
in the earlier post), so the only thing left is a test run and most likely
slight tweaks to the paddle geometry.  Some of you suggested ice cream maker
paddles.  These may work (unfortunately, I don't have access to one to see
just what it looks like), but I also am pretty certain that these paddles 
are designed to fold in air to aid in the ice cream's mouthfeel.  I know the
manufacturers do this, but I don't know if the home-size machines are set 
up this way.  Anyone out there have any comments about this?  The paddle 
design I came up with is more ribbon-like than paddle-like.  There are large
areas that I removed to help eliminate a swirling/rotating type of movement
that wouldn't quite mix the mash very well.  The top of the paddle is 
angled to pull the mash down the shaft and the bottom of the paddle pushes
the mash up and towards the sides.  The bottom also covers about 95% of
the keg's bottom and sweeps very close to the bottom so that there will be
no scorching of the grain (hopefully).  

Any input will be appreciated.  Also, when I get the paddle design nailed
down, I'll try and post some sort of ascii representation of it (although
with the limited resources available with ascii, and my limited artistic
talent, this may be more laughable than usable).

don
dput at csulb.edu

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1434, 05/27/94