HOMEBREW Digest #1444 Wed 08 June 1994
Digest #1443
Digest #1445
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Aeration, how long is long enough? ("Christopher V. Sack")
"Alt" yeast question (Jonathan G Knight)
brewing books [from spencer] (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Caledonian Bottles (Paul Murray)
Contamination? (Kent Verge)
Re: Autolysis (Rich Fortnum)
Re: Amylases (Rich Fortnum)
Re: Cold Breaks (Rich Fortnum)
Re: Different Grains (Rich Fortnum)
Extractions rates, etc. (Michael Sheridan)
Hop utilization questioned (Jon Petty)
Pale ale? (Steve Robinson)
Brewing Equipment (Guy Mason)
Quality Vienna Malts ("Lee A. Menegoni")
Lids on German Steins (Jim Cave)
More Zima (Bob Ambrose)
Re: Reinheitsgebot and kettle salts (Jim Busch)
RE"accepted brewing practice" (Jim Busch)
Malts of the World (Jeff Frane)
Thanks (Phil Miller)
storing malt extract (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Michigan Brewpubs ("Joe Stone")
Attention Mathematicians! (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Extract Eff, Kettle SG Change ("Manning Martin MP")
Re: Pale Ale? (Jim Brewster)
Refrigerator Problem (David Knight)
Corn/Rice Extract (Randy M. Davis)
Ring around neck=infection always? (BUKOFSKY)
Power Sparger (Ed Oriordan)
Homebrew shops/good deals in Denver/Ft. Collins? (Kelly Jones)
piss yellow, beer strength (HOMEBRE973)
what temp to finish my lager? (Andy Rowan)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 1994 23:11:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Christopher V. Sack" <cvsack at lor.syr.edu>
Subject: Aeration, how long is long enough?
Dear Homebrewers:
A couple of weeks ago I made a comment that an airpump/airstone would
oxygenate wort within 30 minutes. I then recieved notes asking if I had
any proof and where did I get my values for oxygen saturation. Well, these
comments sent me to the library, but my research schedual has postponed my
reply until now. My comments were second hand from a colleague who
worked with dissolved components in aqueous media (ie. stuff in water).
When I checked the library computer for articles on oxygenation, I was
surprized at the number of articles it found. When I tracked down the
first couple, I found that they all dealt with the oxygenation of waste
water in treatment plants handling 100,000+ gallons per day. I was
reluctant to report any of these results until I located articles that
correlated "bench top experiments" (under 20 gal.) to operating waste
water treatment plants. Surprizingly, the rate of transfer does not
change upon upsizing, only the the volume of air required.
For those who are interested, the mass transfer equation is:
C(t) = C* - {(C* - Co) * exp[-KLa(t - t0)]}
C(t) is the oxygen concentration at time t (mg/L)
Co is the oxygen concentration at time t0 (mg/L)
C* is the oxygen saturation level at the test temperature (mg/L)
KLa is the mass transfer coefficient (per hour)
t0 is the initial time point, usually 0 (hours)
t is the time when C(t) is measured (hours)
exp is the exponent base e
The volume and density of the liquid do not effect the rate! The density
does not even effect the oxygen saturation level. The five values for fine
bubble aeration KLa varied from 6.3 to 13.8 per hour in the four articles I
ended up using. The average was 10.3 per hour. (The articles also listed
the KLa values for coarse/big bubble and surface aeration, but I did not
include them in my average.)
>From a colleague's Dissolved Oxygen Meter, the oxygen saturation values are:
DO temp
(mg/L) deg.C. deg.F.
9.07 20 68
8.24 25 77
7.54 30 86
6.93 35 95
These values are for water in equilibrium with air at one atmosphere.
The units of mg/L are the same as ppm (parts per million).
Lets look at a practical example. Starting with boiled wort, which is
deoxygenated (Co = 0 mg/L), that has been cooled to 70.deg.F (C* = 9 mg/L)
and a tranfer coefficient as described above (KLa = 10 per hour), I get
the following results (and a crude ASCII graph):
DO time
mg/L % sat. min.
1 11 0.71 9| *(8.5) *(8.9) *(8.99)
2 22 1.51 8| *(8.0)
3 33 2.43 m 7| *
4 44 3.53 g 6| *
5 56 4.87 / 5| *
6 67 6.59 L 4| *
7 78 9.02 3| *
8 89 13.2 2| *
8.5 94 17.3 1|*
8.9 99.0 27.0 0*________________________________________
8.95 99.5 31.2 | | | | | | | | |
8.99 99.9 40.8 0 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 min.
One final note. In going from tap water to sludge, the saturation level
does not change, only the "effective transfer rate". The coefficient KLa
becomes alpha * KLa, where alpha varies from 0.6 to 1.0 The actual value
for alpha is determined by compairing the tapwater oxygen transfer rate to
the sludge transfer rate. Remember that sludge contains lots of
undissolved materials. I think wort is closer to water than it is to
sludge!
For the example above, if alpha = 0.8, the KLa becomes: 0.8 * 10 per hour
= 8 per hour. The time for 0 to 8.9 mg/L (99% sat.) would increase from
27.0 min. to 33.8 min.
Literature references available upon request.
___ ___
Sincerely, / ) | / / ) __ __ | Christopher V. Sack
Chris / | / (___ __ ) / )| / Chemistry Dept.
/ | / ) / / / | / S.U.N.Y.-E.S.F.
(____/* |/* (____/ (__\ (__/ |/ \ <cvsack at lor.syr.edu>
Return to table of contents
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 1994 22:38:54 -0500 (cdt)
From: Jonathan G Knight <KNIGHTJ at AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: "Alt" yeast question
I have read HBD opinion which says that the Wyeast "European" (I forget the
number) is an "alt" yeast, but I have also read, I think in a mail-order
catalogue, or perhaps even the Wyeast "Yeast Profiles" sheet, that the
"German" (1009 I think?) is in fact "the" "alt" yeast.
I have not tried the "European" meself, but I made an extract+specialties
brew loosely based on Papazian's guidelines for an Altbier in that nifty
little chart he has, and it's one of the best brews I've made!
At any rate, I'd like to invite some more discussion on this: will the real
Altyeast please stand up?
Jonathan Knight
Grinnell, Iowa
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 00:28:34 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: brewing books [from spencer]
I'd like to add another book to Jeff's list:
Randy Mosher's new Brewing Companion, published by Alephenalia Press,
1994. It's much more in the nature of a reference manual than a
narrative introduction to brewing. But, it incorporates dozens of
useful tables and charts, has several kinds pages for recording your
brewing sessions and recipes -- lots of "blank" (that is, not filled
in) pages in the book, or you can make copies and put them in a
binder. It's got chapters on basic brewing, ingredients, recipe
design, styles, etc. And it's visually exciting (as you might expect,
given Randy's background as a graphic artist).
10 years in the making, and it shows. Unfortunately, it's also got a
bunch of (mostly just annoying) typos. List price is $19.95
=S
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 16:19:15 +1000 (EST)
From: Paul Murray <pmurray at lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au>
Subject: Caledonian Bottles
Philip Proefrock asks if there are more suitable bottles for homebrew
than Caledonian Brewery bottles. He says that the Caley bottles have a
lip that prevents the bottler from getting a grip. I have bottled about
75 L in Caley bottles with no problems. I used a two handed lever
capper, which while not a bench capper, seemed to work fine. It didn't
cost much either. I know that St Andrew's Ale (as it is sold in the
States) comes in 12oz bottles, whereas Caledonian 80/, 70/, & Golden
Promise (their organic beer) come in pint/20 oz/500ml bottles. Maybe the
larger bottles are a different design. Now that I live in Australia I no
longer have access to Caledonian bottles, but I can recomend them to
anyone who does. It is well worth experimenting with different cappers
to find one that is compatible, because while Caley bottles may not be
the most fun to fill, they are certainly loads of fun to empty. :-)
Happy Bottling
Paul Murray (pmurray at lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au)
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 03:19:54 CDT
From: kverge at conch.senod.uwf.edu (Kent Verge)
Subject: Contamination?
I am a relative novice at brewing, and was wondering about contmination
during the process. My first batch went well, but my second batch had a
few bottles that really foamed up, and I'm wondering if it was caused by
contamination. Does anyone know if that is a symptom, and, if so, what
I can do to keep it from happening again?
TIA,
Kent Verge
University of West Florida
kverge at conch.senod.uwf.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 09:47:27 GMT
From: Rich Fortnum <rich at beerich.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Autolysis
>In reading Foster's book on Porter over the weekend I came
>across a comment from him that ale yeast was more prone to
>autolysis than lager yeast. Sorry I can't be more exact than
>that, I'm at work and I don't have his book in front of me. My
>experience to date would tend to suggest the opposite is true.
>I've never had a batch of ale yeast autolyse on me, but I have
>had a couple lagers go after sitting at room temp for three
>weeks or so. Comments anyone?
Ale yeasts find cold temperatures more hostile than lager strains. So, when
placed in this condition, they try to kill others for the sake of living
themselves. When I say 'this condition' I mean cold conditioning. Diacetyl
rests as a warm condition is only for max 5 days, at cool temperatures also.
Chill your lager. That's what lagering is - cold aging/conditioning.
Cheers.
BeeRich
Malting, Brewing & Distilling Science
Heriot-Watt University
Edinburgh, Scotland
e-mail: rich at beerich.demon.co.uk
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 09:48:47 GMT
From: Rich Fortnum <rich at beerich.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Amylases
>I'm going to use powdered amylase enzyme to convert starches in flaked
>maize. Does anyone have any experience in doing this? What charging ratio?
>How long? Is temp different than 148=B0F? Do I need to boil maize first? If
>so , how long before adding enzymes?
Which amylase is it? Alpha or beta? Make sure you know which one. Read up on
both of them in Papazian. Use the same temperatures. Use about 20 ppm. If
you're using flaked maize, you don't need to boil. If you're using maize
grits, then you have to cook. Cook grits for 20 minutes at boiling temps, with
a little bit of 2-row to keep it from turning into a solid lump. Add to the
rest of the mash, then add amylases.
You should rely on your malt for enzymes. Use a maximum of 35% flaked maize.
Cheerio.
BeeRich
Malting, Brewing & Distilling Science
Heriot-Watt University
Edinburgh, Scotland
e-mail: rich at beerich.demon.co.uk
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 09:49:38 GMT
From: Rich Fortnum <rich at beerich.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Cold Breaks
>Am I correct in thinking that a proper cold break is necessary
>only in all grain brewing? Seems I've heard that somewhere before.
>
>I am a lowly extract brewer and sometimes after cooling my wort
>before adding it to the primary, I have a sediment at the bottom of
>my boiling kettle. I've always dumped it into the fermenter but
>should I?
Always try to maximize cold break, by rehydrating and adding Irish Moss before
end of boil. 10 minutes should do, if rehydrated in water beforehand, say
three hours before.
Keep it out of your fermenter. Just do your best, with this matter.
BeeRich
Malting, Brewing & Distilling Science
Heriot-Watt University
Edinburgh, Scotland
e-mail: rich at beerich.demon.co.uk
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 09:50:14 GMT
From: Rich Fortnum <rich at beerich.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Different Grains
>When I brewed my first all grain brew, I went to me local supply store and
>the recipe I was trying was just a basic Pale Ale (Just wanted to start
>simple). They had a variety of 2 row grains. They had American Pale Malt,
>German Pale Malt and Belgin Pale Malt. They also have a similar grouping
>of Crystals and Wheats from differnt countries.
They are all essentially the same type of barley (not variety though) and
should be generally the same. You're playing with malting practices, total
nitrogen amounts, and more in depth things. They will all work, but will
change your product slightly. Obviously, you'll use British malt for pale
ales, if you can get some. German and Eastern European malts will have malting
and mashing problems, and are great for decoction mashes (which was the orignal
way of using these malts).
>The store told me that they are basically all the same, just from different
>countries.
Basically.
>Is this true, or does one country make a better grain than the other. What
>are the major differences? The prices were the same or only 5 or 10 cents a
>pound difference.
Not better, just different. They all have their optimal uses, in different
situations. So, better per style, or utilization. Major differences are
malting quality, extraction rates, amounts of small starch granules...don't
worry about it.
What you could do to answer your own question is make three batches, each using
one type. Keep everything else the same. Temperatures, volumes, times, pH and
the like. It could be great information.
Cheers.
BeeRich
Malting, Brewing & Distilling Science
Heriot-Watt University
Edinburgh, Scotland
e-mail: rich at beerich.demon.co.uk
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 7:28:25 EDT
From: mikesher at acs.bu.edu (Michael Sheridan)
Subject: Extractions rates, etc.
Hi y'all
I don't have one of those funky copy-and-snip email editors, so forgive me for
poor style in this post.
1) Derek Sikes asked about his Unpale IPA from extract. We tried
making one of Charlie's Pils and it was <awful>. If you want a pale ale, start
with a simple bitter, like Charlie's Righteous Real Ale. It's also a good
basic extract recipe for experimenting with hops, fruit, etc.
2) Ken R. wants to know about using twist-offs--- don't. They can't
handle the pressure. In an ideal world, you'd want lots of 'bar bottles', i.e.,
Bud longnecks. The bottles they use for bars (refilled at least a few times)
are thicker than the regular storebought returnables (crushed, melted, and
remade into bottles. It's amazing how wasteful we are!). We use Sam Adams
bottles (the thin ones) and haven't had any problems.
3) Karl MacR wrote about making his stout 'stringer' (couldn't
resist ;-)) We've used honey to boost alcolhol content in a couple of dark
brews. It ferments out VERY thoroughly, but can give a 'honey bite' flavor
when its still young or if you use too much. Stick with a pound or so for a
5 gal batch until you get a feel for the flavor.
4) And now the real reason I'm writing this-- extraction rates.
We made an oatmeal porter the other day, and I figured our final extraction
rate at 23 pts/#/gal. Yuck. I think it's because we have an uninsulated Zapap
lauter tun that radiates heat. I stuck the floating thermometer in the tun to
monitor its temp, to see if it stayed around 168 degrees as we sparged. No way.
It dropped down to 150 or so within 20 min., so we started heating our sparge
water up to 200 degrees to compensate (yeah, we know, tannins, etc. At least
its a porter, that'll hide a bit of that flavor). No dice; could'nt get the
temp above 165. Putting the lid on the buckets helped, but I'm still a tad
frustrated with this low temp-low extraction thing. Jeff Renner wrote that
he has a 'insulated and caulked' Zapap. Huh? How do you clean it? What's it
look like, etc.?
The lesson we learned with this porter-- we're going to follow the SG,
not the recipe. That is, we diluted our wort (with 1 gal) in the fermenter to
top it up to 5.5 gal, and THEN took the SG. Mistake. We had diluted it down
to 1.037, a bit below the 1.045 or so we wanted for the 'style'. If we had just
gone with a 4.5 gal batch, we wouldn't have had to add 1 # dried extract to
boost the SG.
Thanks for coping with a long and rambly post. Any opinions on improving
the Zapap would be HIGHLY appreciated.
Have a good day, y'all.
Mike Sheridan and Kristina Simmons
mikesher at acs.bu.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 7:58:31 EDT
From: Jon Petty <jpetty at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Hop utilization questioned
I have to take exception to the hop utilization vs gravity published in
the HBD recently. I recently made two identical IPAs with the
exception that the second batch I only boiled the hops and added the
extract to the hot water after the hops were strained out. I did this
to compare results. The second brew was extremely bitter compared to
the first. Both used 1.5 oz of Norther Brewer, 7.5% AA. in a 1.052
ale. I can't compare taste because of the bitterness difference but
clarity and color are the same and the second batch had a rockier head.
I've since made a brown ale, same OG using 3/4 oz of NB boiled without
the malt for 60 min and bitterness is comparable to my first IPA. This
turned out to be one of my best in 28 batches. I seem to remember
someone (Glen Tinseth ?) getting hop utilizations of 46% when boiled in
plain water. This figure more approxamates my taste results. Besides
higher utilization of hops, there is no boil-over or break mat'l to
worry about when the malt isn't boiled; are there disadvantages ?
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 08:31:03 EDT
From: Steve Robinson <Steve.Robinson at analog.com>
Subject: Pale ale?
> from Derek Sikes "ueymids at trex.oscs.montana.edu"
> I'm on my 8th or 9th batch of homebrew and have made only darker beers so far.
> I've enjoyed, browns, porters, some splendid stouts and bitters, a dark steam
> etc. But I finally got the urge for a pale. I attempted an IPA using
> Charlie P.'s recipee but I used amber malt and so missed the piss-yellow
> color I was hoping for. So I have tried again...
I imply from this that you are expecting a straw yellow color such as found in
BudMillerCoors. An IPA ought to be a nice deep copper color. You mention that
you have made some bitters, and an IPA should be a slightly stronger version of
a bitter. Your S.G. of 1.040 sounds about right for an extract version. You
don't mention what your hop rates were, but this sounds like it should be a nice
beer when it's done.
Steve Robinson
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 09:03:49 +22305931 (EDT)
From: gam at beluga.must.com (Guy Mason)
Subject: Brewing Equipment
Greetings :
I need to tap the collective wisdom of HBD. First a quick thank you to
everyone who responded to my post on bottling with honey. The Goat
Scrotum Ale ala Guy is a smashing success. Now on to the big question.
Does anyone out in HBD-land have any experience using the Stoelting Home
Brew System? It seems like a wonderous thing for those of us who limit
their hardware expliots to changing light bulbs. Of course there is always
the cost so...
Private E-mail is welcome, all the usual disclaimers, I'm not a salesperson/
distributor/yada-yada-yada
TIA
_ _
O O
/---------------------------uuu--U--uuu---------------------------\
| Guy Mason I think, |
| MUST Software International therefore |
| E-mail : gam at must.com I brew |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------/
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Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 10:07:50 EDT
From: "Lee A. Menegoni" <lmenegon at nectech.com>
Subject: Quality Vienna Malts
Ireks of Germany makes a fine undermodified Vienna malt that has sufficent
enzymes to convert itself and can be used as the base malt in Vienna and
Fest beers.
George Fix, in a previous HBD post, mentioned a less pricey quality German
Pilsner malt from Durst, thay also make a Vienna Malt. These are more
modified than the Ireks.
The DeWolf/Cosyns Belgian malts Pilsner and Munich (only 7L) are high
quality highly modified malts. The only issue with the Belgian malts is
they have a lower level of SMM, a precursor of components that produce
malty flavor, than the German malts.
The D/C crystal malts were very well reviewed by Doctor Fix in his article
on Belgian Malts in one of the early issues of Brewing Techniques. He
particularly liked the Caramel Vienna malt. The article additionally
included updates for the Vienna beer recipes published in the Fix's
beer styles book.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 8:02:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Cave <CAVE at PSC.ORG>
Subject: Lids on German Steins
I was asked the other day "Why are there lids on German Beer Steins?"
I thought it might have been an inovation for farmers and the like to keep
dirt and straw and such out of their beer while working in the fields. Does
anyone know the real reason/history of it.
Thanks, Jim Cave "I brew, therefore I am!"
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 1994 10:55:18 -0400
From: ambroser at apollo.dml.georgetown.edu (Bob Ambrose)
Subject: More Zima
It appears this "beverage" (or whatever you want to call it) is really catching
on. Now you can buy it in 22oz bottles!
I don't think it will be long before we see quarts and 40oz bottles.
Would you like to drink 40oz of Zima? Maybe if someone had a gun to my head! :)
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 11:14:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Reinheitsgebot and kettle salts
> From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
> Subject: German purity law???
>
> >From: "Dennis Lewis" states........
> >When I was in Munich last year, I got a tour of Spaten and they were
> >making Franziskaner weissbier at the time. They used no other water
> >treatments than calcium chloride. It's my opinion that water high in
> >sulfates is not necessarily good for making weissbier because the
> >SO4's contribute a dry palate to the brews, when you are looking for
> >a sweeter, more malty one.
> How does this fit in with the German purity law (I couldn't spell Rein...)?
No problemo. Kettle salts are allowed by rein..since the water has these
materials occuring naturally. Through the normal warped logic, if it
occurs naturally, you can add a few hundred times the amount and still
be "pure"! So, go ahead and add Gypsum or chlorides.
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
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Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 11:33:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: RE"accepted brewing practice"
What do you know, I expect the Oracle to respond directly, but instead
I get flamed by a Don Put <dput at csulb.edu>:
> >
> > > Subject: "Misinformation" revisited
> > >
> > > >Subject: RE: tannin leaching by boiling water, free ads in BT
> > >
> > > >I just got done skimming this misinformation . . .
> > > ^^^^^^^^
> > Perhaps if you had READ the complete article, you wouldn't have jumped to
> > such needless conclusions.
> >
Perhaps if you had been brewing as much and long as I have, and have been
reading this misinformation on this digest for as long as I have, you
would have realized that any regular HDBer has read this stuff many times
before. Its the same article that was rejected by Zymurgy, and what do
you know, it ends up in the "more technical" journel, BT. Go figure!
>>
>>I got pretty peeved for two reasons, one is that "tips" like these have
>>no basis in brewing science and are contrary to accepted practice,
>especially with regard to increased leaching of tannins from the lauter tun.
>
>In theory, of course, you are right. However, the words "accepted practice"
>leave the resonant sound, in my mind, of lemmings running for the cliff.
>Granted, there has been a great deal of advancement in the brewing trade,
>and craft for that matter, by the careful study of processes. We have all
>gained a fair amount of control over our hobbies as a result of this, but
I think there is always room for new ideas and new ways of approaching things.
I fail to see the relationship between advocating increased tannin extraction
and European rodents jumping into the sea! Its hardly on the cutting edge
of brewing science to realize that sparge waters above 180F increase tannin
extraction, see DeClerc, or Hough et. al. I suspect good coverage of this
is also found in Miller and Noonan. How making beers that are more astringent
is advancing the hobby is beyond me.
>
>> The folks who brought us lambics, pilsners, and steam styles of beer went
against "accepted practice." Of course, they were concerned with different
>> types of fermentation techniques, and we are dealing with sparging
>> techniques here.
At the time of origin of these beer styles, there was no "accepted practice"!
It was being defined.
> >>
>If you had read Jack's article carefully, you would have stumbled across the
>> words: ". . . but if you use boiling water in THIS system, the average
>> temperature will be well below 170F and you will be lucky to keep it above
>> 150F" (my emphasis).
> >
Now just what the 'ell does this mean, anyway! Where is this mysterious
average temp to be located? Is he attempting to claim temp readings far
away from the surface area that has now increased the tannins extracted in
the lauter (hot water hits surface, surface is cooler, heat exchange takes
place, and leaching of tannins). Or is this "sparge bowl" some amazing
heat sink whereby water drops precipitously from 212F to 176F! I mean, whats
35F difference between friends?? And I thought one of the "wonders" of
kettle mashing is the ease of a mash off, ending in a tun at 170F. If the
tun is 170, and the sparge 212F, just where is this temp delta coming from?
SS is a poor conductor, even if it is not insulated, which it should be at
this stage of the process.
> >
>Jack is merely stating what he has found to be true
with regard to the easy mashing system. I lauter in a Gott cooler and I get
> very little temperature drop, but I imagine if I used a kettle the heat
>transfer would be much greater. Therefore, I would need to boost my initial
> sparge water temperature, wouldn't I?
Wrong again, Don. If you use sparge water above 180F, you are going to
increase the tannins extracted. I also use a kettle to mash in and a
"kettle" to lauter in . I can assure you it is better to sparge with
170F water than with 190F.
>
> >>Secondly, the "article" is basically free advertising for JSP and had
> >>no buisness being in the articles section , it belonged in some product
> >>review area.
>
>While there were references to obtaining said easy mashing system from
>Jack Schmidling Productions in the article, there was also a comprehensive
>parts list that anyone with a little motivation could have used to assemble
>all the necessary parts, i.e., build their own easy masher. Also, you'll
>notice in the article it wasn't referred to as the EASYMASHER(tm). The
>"article" as you call it appeared in the section reserved for brewers
>entitled: "Brewers' Forum." Which, in past issues, has brought us such
>notable contributions as:
>"Modifying Half_Barrel Kegs for Use as Brewing Vessels," by Martin Manning
>"A Three-Tiered Gravity-Flow Brewing System," by Bob Caplan
>"Beer Tree: A Three-Tiered System with Roots in Simplicity," by David O'Neil
>and many others. All of the articles that have appeared in this section
>of the magazine are written from the [home]brewer's perspective. Hence, the
>designation "Brewers' Forum."
>
>
Did any of the above authors have a vested interest in the articles they
wrote? This is probably the reason that Zymurgy rejected it.
now back to the previously scheduled maltmill_digest,
Jim Busch
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 08:19:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com>
Subject: Malts of the World
Larry Kelly writes, plaintively:
>
> When I brewed my first all grain brew, I went to me local supply store and
> the recipe I was trying was just a basic Pale Ale (Just wanted to start
> simple). They had a variety of 2 row grains. They had American Pale Malt,
> German Pale Malt and Belgin Pale Malt. They also have a similar grouping
> of Crystals and Wheats from differnt countries.
>
> The store told me that they are basically all the same, just from different
> countries.
>
Isn't there a malt FAQ somewhere? I remember it being put together a
couple of years ago...
Interesting that your local store carries a good selection, and hasn't
the faintest idea why. The short answer is: THEY ARE WRONG!!! Malts
originating from the US, Belgium, Germany and England are quite
different from one another, as they should be. Brewers in different
countries make different sorts of beers, have different requirements for
those beers and different expectations of their malt.
I *think* this is addressed in the malt FAQ. If not, it should be.
Another, highly-prejudiced short answer: the specialty malts (caramel,
etc.) from Europe (Belgium, especially) are superior to those produced
in the U.S. They are made from better barley and are made through
better processes (I said I was prejudiced!). To my thinking, the malts
from Belgium's DeWolf-Cosyns are the finest in the world.
If, in fact, you can buy these for a few cents a pound more than
domestic, DO IT!!
- --Jeff
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Date: Tue, 07 Jun 94 10:28:07 CDT
From: Phil Miller <C616063 at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject: Thanks
Thanks to all who responded to my query on how long beer keeps.
Keep Brewing
Phil Miller
P.S I am moving to Carboy-Brewing from plastic bucket brewing---any tips or
hints about this type of "brewery"?
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 12:20:15 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: storing malt extract
> >From *Jeff* Renner
> Eric Miller wonders about spoiled canned extract. I've seen enough
> swollen cans to know it's possible, especially if the factory
> didn't process them right. The older they get, the more chance
> they have of going off, and they certainly aren't going to improve.
> I'd sure move that can from 85^F to a cooler place!
Dave Miller writes in this month's issue of Brewing Techniques:
Liquid malt extracts ... seem to slowly deteriorate in the can or drum
from the day they are packaged. Very old malt syrups become dark and
acquire a coarse, molasses-like flavor that is obvious in beers made
from them. .... About all you can do is [to] keep it at moderate
temperatures (60-80F) and use it within six months.
On the brighter side, he says:
Dry malt extract will show deterioration by absorbing moisture from
the air and hardening. I have seen it keep for a year when stored in
a very dry room packed in a double layer of airtight plastic.
=S
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Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 09:38:06 PDT
From: "Joe Stone" <JSTONE at SJEVM5.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Michigan Brewpubs
I hate to do it, but here it is ... another brewpub request. If
anyone has information related to brewpubs in Michigan, please e-mail
me directly.
Thanks,
Joe
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Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 12:44:04 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Attention Mathematicians!
Here's a table I use to for making high gravity beers from
first-runnings, only. I then sparge second runnings to make a weaker
beer from the remaining extract. The method is this: mash with the
specified water-grain ratio, then drain the bed dry. Use these "first
runnings" for your strong beer. You can sparge as fast as it will go,
because if your mash is properly mixed, the sugar in the liquor and in
the grain are in equilibrium, so no extra sugars will be extracted by
going slowly.
How to read the table: the first column is quarts of water per pound
of grain. The second is the specific gravity of the run-off in
"points" (e.g. 105 means 1.105). The third column is quarts of
run-off collected per pound. The final column is your extract
efficiency in pt-lb/gallon. These are pre-boil figures, so if you
boil down from 6 to 5 gallons, you'll get another 15% or so (e.g.,
1.105 -> 1.120, which I actually got in my most recent "bombastic beer"
attempt).
qt/lb SG collect extract
1 105 .4 10
1.25 90 .65 15
1.5 80 .9 18
2 60 1.4 21
These numbers work for my system, and were determined by experiment.
Your mileage may (will?) vary. I'm assuming that each pound of wet
grain absorbs .6 quarts of water. A recent article in Brewing
Techniques gave a figure of .4 qt/lb, which would obviously increase
the amount of run-off (and would improve the efficiency).
=S
Return to table of contents
Date: 7 Jun 1994 12:40:01 U
From: "Manning Martin MP" <manning_martin_mp at mcst.ae.ge.com>
Subject: Extract Eff, Kettle SG Change
>From *Jeff* Renner:
>Larry Kelly asks when to figure (pt/lb/gal), in the boiler or in the
>fermenter. I take at the fermenter. This, of course, lowers my value. >I
always lose a fair amount from my early estimate when the boiler is >full
after the sparge (I do cool my sample). I would guess that most >of this is
due to loss in hops and trub. However, you report 29 at the >beginning of
the boil, 26 at the end, and 20 after dilution. Something >here isn't
right, and I don't think it is all due to the lack of linearity >when
diluting.
My standard practice is to assess extract efficiency at the end of the
sparge, and armed with this information, adjust the boil time to hit target
gravity. A good approximation of the change in SG over the boil (or for
dilution) is that the ratio of SG points (start/finish) is equal to the
volume ratio (finish/start). I consider losses due to hops and trub to cause
a reduction in the available final volume, and these usually cost 2-3% (of
the final volume).
I do not worry about any changes in SG due to trub formation, or the change
in wort volume due to the spent hops. In spite of this, the change in gravity
from the start of the boil to the end seems, as near as I can measure, to
follow the (constant extract) SG-volume relationship previously stated. Since
the final volume I measure includes the displaced volume of the hops and
trub, and is therefore a bit high, I would guess that the effects of hop
volume and trub formation are off-setting.
A 10% change in extract, as in going from 29 to 26 pt/lb/gal, seems out of
line, and I would suspect some sort of measurement error. Consider these:
The measured volume of wort in the kettle must be corrected to the same
reference temperature as the SG; a 4% adjustment if you measure volume at
boiling and correct to 60 degrees F!
The run-off must be well mixed prior to taking an SG reading, and failure to
do this can give huge errors.
I find the typical amateur brewer's hydrometer, with 0.002 calibrations, very
difficult to read, and each 0.001 error here (1.050 wort) will cause a 2%
change in calculated extract.
Martin Manning
manning_martin_mp at mcst.ae.ge.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 12:49:03 -0500
From: jmb31 at cornell.edu (Jim Brewster)
Subject: Re: Pale Ale?
In HBD # 1443, Derek Sikes wrote:
>I attempted an IPA using Charlie P.'s recipee but I used amber malt and so
>>missed the piss-yellow color I was hoping for.
The problem is not in your recipe but in your expectations of what a "pale
ale" should look like. An IPA is pale by the standards of 18th century
England, when porters were the standard drink. Thus an IPA should be amber
to deep copper in color, which hardly seems "pale" to Americans weaned on
piss-yellow lagers!
It is also true that beer looks a lot darker in the carboy than in your
glass. This is just a function of amount of liquid the light must pass
through.
Does Charlie really expect you to get 1.070 from 7# of extract in 5 gal?
1.040 sounds closer to reality. Go for 10# next time, and consider adding
some bittering and flavoring hops if you aren't already doing so.
Keep on brewing,
Jim Brewster
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 13:02:19 EDT
From: David Knight <dknight at ren.iterated.com>
Subject: Refrigerator Problem
This is not 100% brewing related, but I don't know where else to ask this so
I'll keep it short and simple.
A couple of months ago I bought a used frost free refrigerator for lagering.
The refrigerator is about 8 years old and sits in our garage (hooked up to
a Hunter Airstat). When I first bought it, everything worked fine (I used
the internal thermostat to get down to about 35F). However, temperatures here
in Georgia have been getting hotter and hotter lately, and the humidity has
increased significantly, to the point that the garage can get up to 100F
during the day. As a result, my refrigerator is working full-time just getting
down to around 55F.
Am I simply asking too much of this poor beat-up appliance? Should a 'working'
refrigerator be able to handle conditions like that? Would it be possible
to get a refrigerator that could maintain 35F when the room temperature is
around 100F and humid? Should I just sell the thing and buy a smaller
refrigerator that I can store in a closet inside my house?
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
-Dave Knight
dknight at ren.iterated.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 11:04:17 MDT
From: Randy M. Davis <rmdavis at mocan.mobil.com>
Subject: Corn/Rice Extract
Rich Webb asks...
>Does anyone out there in HBD land have a good handle on likely
>extraction rates for grains such as rice and corn?
The best info I have been able to find on corn and rice indicates that they
are high in starch and low in protein and both provide typical rates of
extraction of around 40 deg./lb./gal.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Randy Davis: Mobil Oil Canada Calgary, Alberta Canada |
| rmdavis at mocan.mobil.com |
| Phone (403) 260-4184 Fax (403) 260-7348 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 13:11:01 -0400 (EST)
From: BUKOFSKY <sjb8052 at minerva.cis.yale.edu>
Subject: Ring around neck=infection always?
I'm not worrying, only curious....
The last few brews I have made have developed rings around the bottle neck
where the beer meets the glass. According to various sources, this is a
sure sign of infection. However, all of the beers are crystal clear and
delicious, even after a few months. Can this effect occur without there
being an infection? The only correlation I have is that these beers were
made in much warmer conditions (10 degrees higher than non-ringed beers).
The yeasts used were Wyeast British and the new Wheat. Am I kidding
myself that everything is O.K.?
-Scott
No cute comment.
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 13:33:32 -0400
From: edo at marcam.com (Ed Oriordan)
Subject: Power Sparger
At this point I assume a fair number of people have read the
most recent Zymurgy.
Can anybody explain the benefits of the "Power Sparger"? The author
seemed to be implying that the benefit of the system was in its
ability to save time (i.e. you can force more sparge water through in a
shorter amount of time).
I use a copper manifold in a cooler, and I have to slow down the
speed at which I can draw sweet liquor off(I use a valve on the output side).
-IF- I wanted my sparges to go faster I would leave the valve wide open.
Can somebody explain what I missed? Is the author implying better
extraction in a shorter time(which would be a benefit)? Or is he merely
showing a way to decrease the sparge time (which to me would be at the
expense of extraction, which is not a real benefit)?
Ed O'
edo at marcam.com
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Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 11:56:05 -0600
From: Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu>
Subject: Homebrew shops/good deals in Denver/Ft. Collins?
Hello all:
I'll be in Denver and Ft Collins later this month for the AHA
conference and Ft. Collins brewfest. While in the area, I'd like to
check out local homebrew shops, especially if there's any bargains to
be had. In particular, I'm interested in finding some imported
(eg German or Belgian) malts at reasonable prices, as my local
homebrew shops seem to carry domestic malts, and the shipping cost for
malt is prohibitively high. So, does anybody know of any good shops
and/or good bargains?
email me, and I'll post the results later.
Thanks,
Kelly Jones
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 94 14:18:32 EDT
From: HOMEBRE973 at aol.com
Subject: piss yellow, beer strength
Derek Sikes asked about getting a light color beer (paleer pale ale).
This is quite difficult to do with extracts unless you go to a full 5 gallon
boil and use the palest of extracts such as Alexander's or William's pale
extracts. The canning process itself would most likely tend to darken
extracts and carmelization tends to occur if you don't do a full 5 gallon
boil
Karl MacRae asks about getting a higher strength beer without sweetness.
Honey is probably the best way to do since it does not give a cidery flavor.
However, you must choose the blandest honey (clover?) you can find or you
will add other flavors.
Andy Kligerman
Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 15:48:54 EDT
From: rowan at ocean.rutgers.edu (Andy Rowan)
Subject: what temp to finish my lager?
Hi,
OK, so I went and made my first lager. Left it in the fridge in
the carboy for a couple extra months, out of laziness/busyness,
and finally bottled it the other night.
So the question is, for this last finishing stage in the bottles,
what temperature do I want? If it's too cold, I'll grow old waiting,
right? If too warm, what results?
Andy
==================================================
| Andy Rowan |
| Center for Remote Sensing and Spatial Analysis |
| Rutgers University, New Brunswick NJ USA |
| rowan at ocean.rutgers.edu |
==================================================
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1444, 06/08/94