FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Vienna & Munich malts, HSA and shaking, Reinheitsgebot and salts (Nancy.Renner)
  A few stainless steel questions... (Teddy Winstead)
  Re: Pale ale? (Stephen Hansen)
  "Checker" pH Meter (TAyres)
  Temperature Controllers? (TAyres)
  EURO-BEERS (David S Calonico)
  Autolysis Correction (John Robinson)
  hot sparging and hot side oxidisation (ANDY WALSH)
  3rd Annual Central Illinois HBC (Tony McCauley)
  DOS Digest Browser (Art Steinmetz)
  Root Beer Yeast (PNEUMAND)
  rice malt (ANDY WALSH)
  Kegs and such (fischer)
  Autolysis/steinlids/info request ("Dana S. Cummings")
  Re: Autolysis (John Robinson)
  Hunter thermometer (Rob Poitras)
  Using Ales Yeast in a Larger Recipe ( LARRY KELLY)
  Advice Needed (Steve Scampini)
  BT Index ("Dennis Lewis")
  Lids on Steins (Jack St Clair)
  Using Polyclar ( LARRY KELLY)
  British Lager Malt? (Steve Zabarnick)
  Re:  Lids on German Steins (Karl Elvis MacRae)
  Homebrew Digest #1444 (June 08, 1994) ("WSZ551")
  Homebrew Digest #1444 (June 08, 1994) ("WSZ551")
  Homebrew digest subscription (WDPROWC)
  Using Polyclar ( LARRY KELLY)
  ORACLE SPEAKS (Jack Schmidling)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 7 Jun 94 16:22:40 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Vienna & Munich malts, HSA and shaking, Reinheitsgebot and salts

>From *Jeff* Renner 
 
Several related thoughts.  Davin Lim asks about the quality of Munich and 
Vienna malts as compared to when George & Laurie Fix reported in their book 
on Vienna beers.  George reported favorably on the Belgian versions in a 
recent Brewing Techniques, and I have seen the protein analyses of the 
German Durst malts, and they are the same as for their Pils malts, under 10% 
as I recall, but at any rate, very good.  I have brewed with both, and was 
very happy with a low gravity (1.040) American red lager that was all Munich 
with a little crystal.  However, that is the one that I recently reported 
self-destructed after 2 months on tap from oxidation.  An identical brew 
last year showed no problems, but it was gone in a month.  A 1.050 Vienna 
made with all Vienna and a little crystal never quite pleased me as it had a 
bit of harshness and hotness to it, in spite of being fermented at 48^F.  I 
entered it in the nationals for feedback, and it scored 31.5 in Chicago, 
about right, I think, and one judge thought there was a fruitiness 
indicating high fermentation temperature.  I think the slight harshness may 
be incipient oxidation like the all Munich beer. 
 
Here's where I think the problems may lie.  First, I shook carbonated both 
of these beers, something I only started doing this past year.  In 15 years 
of kegging with either priming or slow force carbonation, I've never had 
oxidation before.  The Munich was in a Cornelius, which was easier to shake 
hard than the Vienna, which was in a Sankey (someday I'll post how to easily 
seal a Sankey).  In view of the recent postings here on shaken beers, I 
think I'll stop doing that.  I haven't noticed a head retention problem, but 
this oxidation is new. 
 
Second, even though I have filtered out trub and hop pellet particles from 
the cool last wort for years and reboiled them, as I reported in HBD 1443, 
perhaps I only got away with this because I didn't mistreat the beer 
afterwards.  It seems possible that the cool wort would harmlessly pick up 
O2, which would then be driven off during heating and be available for HSA.  
Any ideas?  I'll be more careful when filtering to avoid unnecessary 
aeration.  
 
I think the Munich and Vienna malts hold promise.  After all, they were 
originally the malts developed for use with the waters of those cities and I 
believe were used for the entire grain bill. 
 
Recent comment here about the cost and sanitation problems of Polyclar 
notwithstanding, it removes the oxidized polymerized polyphenols that Miller 
says are often present in high levels in homebrew (see Miller, CHHB, Ch. 28). 
 
Bob Jones asks how water salts fit in with Dennis Lewis's report of their 
use by Spaten Brewery and the Reinheitsgebot that should tickle the spell 
check).  Even though a recent article (Brewing Techniques I think, but maybe 
Zymurgy) said that salts were forbidden, a subsequent correction said that a 
few were permitted - gypsum, CaCl2 and maybe a few others, but not acids 
like phosphoric and lactic. 
 
Jeff

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Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 15:42:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: winstead%brauerei.uucp at cs.tulane.edu (Teddy Winstead)
Subject: A few stainless steel questions...

OK, here's a question (or ten) for the assembled knowledge of the HBD --

I have been building a 3-vessel all-grain setup for the last month or so.
It will look something like this:

     |   |    |     |
     |   |    |     |
     | A |    |  B  |
     |   |====|     |======
     -----    -------     |
=======================|  |  |
   |                |  |  |  |
   |                |  |  C  |
   |                |  |     |
   |                |  -------
   |                |  ==||==

OK, as you can see, two vessels are going to sit on a table, and one on the
ground.  (Flames to alt.ascii-art)  A is the sparge water tank with an 
electric element inside.  B is the mash tun, and C is the boiler.  I do 
infusion mashes, so there's no heat for B.  OK, so I have (or will have)
1/2" ID Stainless pipes fitted into both tank A, B, and C.  A and B will
have a pump connecting them.  So, I will fit ball valves to each of these
beasts.  Now for the real questions --

1.  What comes after the ball valve?  I want to use some kind of flexible
tubing (like the braided PVC stuff that's resistant to 200 F).  How should
I connect the ball valve to the tube?  Can I use plastic fittings?

2.  I haven't purchased the ball valves yet, and some guys in my homebrew
club swear by the brass ones that they get at Home Depot (no affiliation,
etc. etc.).  Are these kosher?  What, if anything, should I specifically
look out for when buying one of these things?  I realize that the stainless
ones are great and all, but this is a matter of $25 a piece versus $25 for
all three.  _BIG_ difference in my book.

3.  Is anyone else using a comparable setup (ie with a pump between sparge
and mash vessels)?  Want to trade notes?

4.  How do I clean the blackened areas of my vessels?  Ie once they've
been used on the burner, what do I do to clean them up?

As always, thanks in advance, my apologies if anyone thinks that this is
a waste  of space, and happy brewing!

P.S.  I plan to do some tests with my mash-tun.  First, I'm going to use
an Easy(tm)Mash(tm)er(tm) style setup, then I'm going to try a window-screen
false-bottom, then I'm going to try a perforated, SS sheet stock false
bottom, then I'm going to try a "refined" Easy(tm)Mash(tm)er(tm) setup.
I'll be posting some empirical results sometime in August or September
after I've made some serious beer...

- -- 
Teddy Winstead
winstead%brauerei at cs.tulane.edu
winstead at cs.tulane.edu
Fanatical Homebrewer

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Date: Tue, 07 Jun 94 14:51:16 -0700
From: Stephen Hansen <hansen at gloworm.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pale ale? 

In HBD #1443 Derek Sikes <ueymids at trex.oscs.montana.edu> writes:
> 
> I'm on my 8th or 9th batch of homebrew and have made only darker beers
> so far.  I've enjoyed, browns, porters, some splendid stouts and bitters,
> a dark steam etc. But I finally got the urge for a pale.  I attempted an
> IPA using Charlie P.'s recipee but I used amber malt and so missed the
> piss-yellow color I was hoping for.  So I have tried again...  
> 
> My problem is that this batch, currently sitting quietly in a carboy, 
> waiting for me to get around to bottling, was supposed to be an IPA---
> But it looks like a nice dark brown.  I brew from extract and used 
> Ironmaster's IPA beer kit.  I added 3 lbs of light Steinhart Co.
> malt extract to get 7lbs total.  The shock came when I poured the
> Ironmaster malt into the boil, I thought it didn't look pale.. oh well.
> It still doesn't look pale.  Is it possible that they mislabeled their
> malt? Has anyone had this problem, should I write to Ironmaster?  Also,
> perhaps once I bottle it the beer will magically transform into a
> piss-yellow pale...  

Three thoughts:

1. The pale in Pale Ale was used relative to the dark brown ales and
   porters that were common in England.  The new "pale" ales at about
   8 - 10 degL  were not particularly light in color especially when
   compared to a modern lager (approx. 2 - 5 degL) but then there were
   no lagers in England at that time.  An IPA, because of it's usually
   longer boil times will be even a bit darker because of the additional
   caramelization.  

2. It always looks MUCH darker in the carboy than it does in the glass!
   I kegged an IPA last night and in the carboy it looked a lot like
   my last porter.  In the hydrometer cylinder it had a medium bronze
   color.  A bit dark, but expected, as I overdid the crystal, but not
   excessive for the style.

3. When boiling the wort, partiularly a high gravity wort, you have to
   careful not to scorch the wort at the bottom of the pot.  To a
   certain extent this is unavoidable with our direct fired kettles,
   but if you make sure that your wort is well mixed before applying
   heat and keep stirring you can minimize it.  Partial boils will

If you want a "piss-yellow", high gravity, pale ale (probably too light
to be called an IPA) I would skip the IPA extract and just use more of
the pale malt extract.

Stephen Hansen

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Stephen E. Hansen - hansen at sierra.Stanford.EDU  | "The church is near,
 Electrical Engineering Computer Facility        |  but the road is icy.
 Applied Electronics Laboratory, Room 218        |  The bar is far away,
 Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-4055    |  but I will walk carefully."
 Phone: +1-415-723-1058   Fax: +1-415-723-1294   |      -- Russian Proverb
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
     

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Date: Tue, 07 Jun 94 18:52:47 EDT
From: TAyres at aol.com
Subject: "Checker" pH Meter

Has anyone had any experience with the "Checker" pH meter that American
Brewmaster sells via Zymurgy?  The price seems remarkably low compared to
other meters on the market, which tend to run in the $60-80 range.  What's
the buzz?

Tom Ayres
tayres at aol.com


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Date: Tue, 07 Jun 94 19:04:21 EDT
From: TAyres at aol.com
Subject: Temperature Controllers?

I'm sorry to see the Hunter Fan digital temperature controller has been
discontinued by the manufacturer.  It was a nifty little digital unit.

Does anyone know of a comparable product?  Or any temperature controller of
similar cost, quality and ease-of-use?  If so, what's the source?

Please post or E-Mail me at tayres at aol.com

Thanks!

Tom Ayres


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Date: Tuesday,  7 June 94 18:20:21 CST
From: David S Calonico <lldsc at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu>
Subject: EURO-BEERS


Just returned from my whirlwind tour of Eastern europe. (had 65 e-mail
messages waiting for me).

Stopped off in Nuremburg, then Prague, then Rocklaw (Poland), then Warsaw,
down to Vienna, over to Salzburg and back to Frankfurt.

My they sure do make those beers different over there. Of course had the
Pilsner Urquell, stopped in at U Flecku in Prague and sampled the two
Polish beers that were supossed to be half decent (Okecim was one, I can't
remember the other).

Suprising thing is that most places didn't have a lot of different beers on
tap. Mostly it was either light or dark (not that I'm complaining or
anything.)

Traveled with an Irishman. We managed to find a British pub, a Scottish
pub and, low and behold, an Irish pub in Wrocklaw in Poland. Maybe it
was just me, but the Guiness there sure tasted a lot better. Held a really
good head, too.

Lost my phrasebook. Good thing that the word for beer is the same in
Polish as it is in Czech.

                                      LLDSC at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu

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Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 21:22:19 -0300 (ADT)
From: robinson at orbit.acrso.ns.ca (John Robinson)
Subject: Autolysis Correction

My appologies folks.  When I posted previously about autolysis
you should read Eric Warner for Terry Foster and Weizen for
Porter. :)  ]

Werner states (on page 80) "Top fermenting yeast also tends to
autolyze quicker than bottom fermenting yeast, and so affects the
flavor stability of Weissbiers that are distributed over a large
area or stored for long periods of time."  

So much for quoting from memory! :) 

I'm not sure I know how to interpret this passage.  First of
all, my experience would seem to contradict this on the surface.
That is, in my experience, at room temperature (20C), lager yeast 
is more prone to autolysis than ale yeast.

If one were to compare them both at their respective 'optimal'
temperatures, I would expect, intuitively, that the tendancy
would be about the same for both strains.

Miller warns of autolysis (repeatedly) in general, but only
talks about lagers specifically.  On page 166 he says: "A final
point about repitching is that you need to be especially wary of
autolysis.  Because of the greater accumultion of yeast on the
bottom of the fermenter, I rack my repitched lagers as soon as
the bubbling interval reaches 30 seconds, rather than the usual
60."

So what does the collective wisdom say?  Did Eric Warner err in
his statement?  I know many Weizen's are bottled with a bottom
fermenting yeast, but I had always thought this was to prevent
the continued slow development of those compounds (like 4 vinyl
guiacol) which make a Weizen a Weizen so that they did not
completely overwhelm the flavor of the beer.  Admitedly, I drew 
this conclusion on my own, as I could think of no other reasonable 
explanations.

Miller does have one additional passage that may be apropos
here from page 157:

"The danger at this stage is *autolysis*.  This is a last-ditch
measure in which the yeast cells excrete proteolytic enzymes and
feed on one another in an attempt to survive.  The result is
often a rotten, rubber stench in the beer.  Of course, autolysis
does not begin immediately, or all at once.  Much depends on the
strain of yheast, its health and stability and the temperature:
as with all metabolic processes, the warmer the medium, the
faster autolysis sets in."

>From this I draw two conclusions: 1) Perhaps typical Weizen
yeasts are of a strain that is more prone to autolysis and 2) in
general, given the temperature dependent nature of autolysis, I
would intuitively think that lager yeasts would be more prone to
it, as they have a higher metabolism at a lower temperature than
their ale counterparts.

Comments?
- -- 
John Robinson                   Internet: robinson at orbit.acrso.ns.ca
Systems Manager
Atlantic Centre for Remote    If it is worth doing, it is worth
    Sensing of the Oceans      doing wrong until you get it right.
DOD #0069                      

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Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 10:42:36 +1000
From: ANDY WALSH <awalsh at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: hot sparging and hot side oxidisation




- -------------------------------------------------------------
  Text File Attachment: BEER.TXT
- -------------------------------------------------------------

>Ron writes:
>> Subject: spruce/1098/buggy bines/calling Jack/bine id
>> 
>>         To Jack Schmidling: Like many on HBD, I'm a kettle masher, 
>>      thanks to your write up. One item, you tell us to sparge with 
>>      boiling water (you say something like, "trust me on this one.") I 
>>      have (and I do), but I'd like to know why. Speak? Speak?
>
>I just got done skimming this misinformation as printed in the latest
>issue of Brewing Techniques.  I got pretty peeved for two reasons, one
>is that "tips" like these have no basis in brewing science and are
>contrary to accepted practice, especially with regard to increased 
>leaching of tannins from the lauter tun. 

FYI, tips like this *do* have a basis in brewing science. If you are like
many HBers your lautertun may not be well insulated (zap-zap or Phil's for
instance). If you sparge with 170F H2O your grain-bed (what's it called
again?) will be lower in temperature, say as low as 150F (I have measured
this - who else has?). This can occur over a long sparge, even with mashout.
This affects extraction efficiency. If I want high extraction I sometimes 
sparge with 200F+ H2O, making sure the very top of the bed does not exceed
175F. This ensures the rest of the grist (is that what it's called?)
will also be below this figure. Most heat loss occurs from the top, but
you can easily monitor the internal temperature. This temperature is easily
achieved by controlling flow rates. Heat is lost by your sparge water in 
the sparge plumbing. If you use this technique the grain does not rise 
above the magic 175F mark and tannins will not be overly noticable in 
your beer. (I say overly because some are always present no matter how
you do it!)
This technique is also useful if you want to minimise HSA. You can
infusion mash and sparge in the same vessel thus avoiding the transfer
process. The hot sparge water raises your mash temp (eg 151F) to mash
out temp. Why is this inferior to infusing boiling water for mash out
or even heating with an element? It is certainly easier, and preferable
to transferring hot grain around the place.

A variation on this technique is not to sparge at all (as recommended
by George Fix in Zymurgy Winter 1992)! 
Think about it. Why sparge? Commercial breweries sparge for economic
reasons. The HBer generally brews to make good beer. Eliminating
sparging produces cleaner beer, via a simpler process for marginal
extra cost. 
Here's how. What I describe is really a "batch sparge".
Using your boiling "sparge water", infuse into your mash at 151F
to mashout (170F) (be careful to avoid hot spots). This is necessary
to avoid a stuck runoff (especially when adjuncts are used such as 
wheat, oats etc.). You need to calculate how much water to add using
basic thermodynamics, or Papazian's tables. Alternatively boil more
water than you could possibly need and infuse it until the desired
temperature  is reached.
 Then drain the whole lot into your boiler (slowly) and forget about
sparging. I think this requires a large, insulated cooler. I use a 10
gallon Igloo with Phil's false bottom and it works fine. It saves a lot 
of work (sparging) and produces cleaner beer (10 to 100 times less 
phenols according to Dr. Fix).My efficiency has dropped from 82% to 68%. 
Therefore I need about 14% more grain for the same beer. This works out 
at about 1.5lbs for my average beer (<$1 at my prices). Australian malt 
is 2 row lager type and well modified, thus very suitable
for infusion mashes. I sometimes combine this with a protein rest in the
same vessel when using adjuncts.

I really only revert to the hot sparge when brewing 10 gallon batches.
The 10 gallon bucket is then not large enough to cope with all the
extra grain, making sparging essential. The "batch sparge" (really just
mashout infusion) should be used with an insulated lautertun, but the 
hot sparge can be used with any type. Just watch the top-of-the-bed
temperature! This may be why the books do not mention this, as	it is
possible to stuff-up if you let the water run too quickly.

Flames encouraged!

__________________________________________

Andy Walsh                        
Homebrewmeister                   _,-_|\
Legless Brewery.                 /      \                
Sydney. AUSTRALIA.               \_,.-._/                
voice 61 2 3695711                     v                  
email awalsh at ozemail.com.au
                                                                              
   *  When you're thirsty get Legless *
___________________________________________

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Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 21:13:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: afmccaul at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Tony McCauley)
Subject: 3rd Annual Central Illinois HBC

    The 3rd Annual Central Illinois Homebrew Competition will take place in
Normal, IL on August 6, 1994.  Entry cutoff is July 31.

    Complete information is available via private e-mail (don't want to waste
bandwidth for those uninterested parties now do we) or by snail mail.  If you
want to receive the information contact me at:

        afmccaul at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu

                or

        Tony McCauley
        404 Tilden Place
        Normal, IL  61761-1432
        (309)452-1084  between 3:30 and 9:00pm CDT

    Let me know if you want to receive hardcopy or e-mail.

    If you're interested in judging, I'll be glad to put you to work.  Just let
me know.

Hoppy brewing,
                Tony.

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Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 22:26:17 -0400
From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm at pipeline.com>
Subject: DOS Digest Browser 

I've seen the posts on the Mac Digest Browser.  Can someone 
post a source for an os2, dos or windows (in that order of 
preference) digest browser.  Thanks.

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Date: Tue, 07 Jun 1994 23:15:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: PNEUMAND at delphi.com
Subject: Root Beer Yeast

I had the same problem as 'Fizzled out'. Adding Champagne Yeast to Root
Beer makes something other than Root Beer. Like Yeasty root Beer.
My solution was to take a 1.5 Liter Warsteiner Keg and adding a chrome tire
valve to the top. I then adapt a tire chuck to my CO2 tank. After putting
the root beer in the keg, I carbonate with CO2 through the tire valve. Shaking
like a madman.
Dispense with either a pump or CO2 dispenser.
Now on to Guava/Mango/Pinapple/ ????? carbonated drinks. 
Partial fermentations, too.... ????????

Dave Pneuman  Siemens/Nixdorf  Boca Raton, Florida

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Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 14:54:34 +1000
From: ANDY WALSH <awalsh at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: rice malt

Is liquid rice malt extract available in the USA? If so, has anyone tried 
using
it in place of rice in light beers?
I have seen the stuff in health food shops over here (when buying other
brewing ingredients of course (8^]) - they're a great source for all kinds
of stuff and cheaper than homebrew shops) and often wondered what
it is like. It looks just like very pale liquid malt extract.

Andy.






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Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 02:19:11 -0700
From: fischer <kfischer at ucssun1.sdsu.edu>
Subject: Kegs and such


Hiya,

Well, I'm in the process of gearing up for my first brewing
attempt.  I have been reading Papazian's book and it sounds
pretty straight forward.  The question I have is: Would it
be a bad idea to keg your first brew attempt.  Because I
have a qtr. keg (7.75 gal) and it seems as if it would
be much easier to keg than bottle.  The only problem is
that in papazian's book, He shows a keg with a plug on the
side.  But my keg only has only opening for the tap and no
other holes.  So how would I clean it, and how would I fill
it???  Any comments, suggestions, and the like would be 
appreciated....Also thanks to those who gave me book 
recomendations.

Later
Keith
<kfischer at ucssun1.sdsu.edu>

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Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 08:25:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dana S. Cummings" <dcumming at moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: Autolysis/steinlids/info request

> Subject: Re: Autolysis
> 
> Ale yeasts find cold temperatures more hostile than lager strains.  So, when 
> placed in this condition, they try to kill others for the sake of living 
> themselves.  When I say 'this condition' I mean cold conditioning.  Diacetyl 
> rests as a warm condition is only for max 5 days, at cool temperatures also.  
 
Out of curiosity; if ale yeasts tend to off each other at cold 
temperatures, how do Kolsch ales ever ferment?

> Subject: Lids on German Steins
 
> 	I was asked the other day "Why are there lids on German Beer Steins?"
> I thought it might have been an inovation for farmers and the like to keep
> dirt and straw and such out of their beer while working in the fields.  Does
> anyone know the real reason/history of it.

Once upon a time I was told it was to keep flies out of the beer.  

And now for something completely different...

A couple of years ago I brewed a batch of Papazian's Holiday Cheer and 
was quite happy with it.  I intend to brew another batch soon but I want 
to get the body and alcohol content to an appropriate Christmas/winter 
level.  When I detailed my intentions to use 9.9 # of extract and 1-2 # 
of specialty grains in a 6 1/2-7 g. batch to a fellow brewer his comment was 
"oh, up there in the barley wine range".  So here's the dilemma:  I've 
read (Miller maybe?) that barley wines and other high gravity beers 
require at least one year of conditioning to be appreciated.  Will the 
10#/7g. ratio put me in the barley wine neighborhood and will I get away 
with 5 1/2 months of aging?  Final ?: what might be an appropriate yeast 
for (what I hope will be) a high alcohol beer like this.  Many TIA.

Cheers & Beers 

Dana Cummings 
dcumming at moose.uvm.edu  

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Date: Wed, 8 Jun 1994 09:39:08 -0300 (ADT)
From: robinson at orbit.acrso.ns.ca (John Robinson)
Subject: Re: Autolysis

In HOMEBREW Digest #1444 Rich Fortnum <rich at beerich.demon.co.uk> writes:

> Ale yeasts find cold temperatures more hostile than lager strains.  So, when 
> placed in this condition, they try to kill others for the sake of living 
> themselves.  When I say 'this condition' I mean cold conditioning.  Diacetyl 
> rests as a warm condition is only for max 5 days, at cool temperatures also.  

I find this very difficult to swallow.  When the temperature is dropped
below normal, in my understanding, ale yeast go dormant.  That is to
say, their metabolism slows down.  While they may autolyse eventually,
it would seem to me that it would take much longer to occur than for a
lager strain which would have a higher metabolic rate at the same temperature. 
I would be interested in any references you might have to back up this
assertion that ale yeasts autolyse more rapidly at lower temperatures.

> Chill your lager.  That's what lagering is - cold aging/conditioning.

Not sure what the purpose of this remark is.  I know what lagering is.
The lagers I tried to brew at around room temperature were not chilled
precisely because I didn't have any way to chill them.  Had I owned a
fridge for brewing at that time it would have been a simple matter but
alas such was not the case.  
- -- 
John Robinson                   Internet: robinson at orbit.acrso.ns.ca
Systems Manager
Atlantic Centre for Remote    If it is worth doing, it is worth
    Sensing of the Oceans      doing wrong until you get it right.
DOD #0069                      

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Date: 07 Jun 94 21:48:00 -0500
From: Rob.Poitras at f1.n249.z1.fidonet.org (Rob Poitras)
Subject: Hunter thermometer


From: rob.poitras at f1.n249.z1.fidonet.org

Someone was asking about Hunter thermometers. Brewers Resource in Camarillo,
CA was carrying them, but have been out of stock for about six months and
will not be getting any more. The good news is, they will be offering another
brand which should be available in a month. Just got off the phone with them.

Rob
- ---
 * OFFLINE 1.58


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Date: Wed, 08 Jun 1994 10:52:28 EDT
From: KMYH09A at prodigy.com ( LARRY KELLY)
Subject: Using Ales Yeast in a Larger Recipe

I have a question I hope some of you more advanced Brew Meisters can answer.

I have seem some All Grain beer recipes that really interest me, the only
problem is that they call for Larger yeasts.  I do not have the facilities
to larger a brew.

Is there a problem it I use all the recipes ingredients expect substitue an
ale type yeast instead of the larger yeast?

What ale type yeast should I use?

Also, If I was to use the larger yeast, but at ale yeast temps (65 or so
degress) what would be the down side?

Larry
KMYH09A at prodigy.com


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Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 10:59:59 EDT
From: Steve Scampini <scampini at hp-and.an.hp.com>
Subject: Advice Needed

Thanks to several people who sent info on Duvel.  A question to the
digesters - Apparently, Duvel uses "two-row summer barley malted in
France and Belgium to a color of between 2.5 and 5.5 EBC with a 
finished beer color of 7 to 9.  Given that I am a barbarian extract
brewer (and a brewcap blower not a siphon sucker) what is the closest
extract that I could use to grossly approximate the above?

TIA,

Steve Scampini

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Date:          Wed, 8 Jun 1994 10:09:51 CDT
From: "Dennis Lewis" <DLEWIS%jscdo6 at jesnic.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject:       BT Index

This past weekend I decided to put together an index of Brewing 
Techniques. (A wonderful mag even if they did have a brain-fart and 
published an ad, loaded with bad info, in the wrong place. Contact 
them at BTcirc at aol.com or BTeditor at aol.com for subscription info.
Standard disclaimer, blah, blah.) I have already found this index 
very useful. I got very distracted while typing it in because I 
realized that I had skipped an article or two. :-)

The descriptions are taken directly from the table of contents in
each issue. I listed the cover art because I found it easier to
locate an issue if I knew what the cover looked like. Since I
haven't seen this anywhere before, I guess I'll consider myself the
keeper of this index. If anyone has any comments regarding format,
detail level, etc. please e-mail them to me at either of these two
addresses:
	aw405 at yfn.ysu.edu
	dlewis%jscdo6 at jesnic.jsc.nasa.gov (until 24 June)


Brewing Techniques - Index
The Art and Science of Small-scale Brewing

Vol.1 No.1: May June 1993 
(Cover art: Thermometer, hops, and grain)
Factors Affecting Hop Production, Hop Quality, and Brewer Preference.
	Alfred Haunold and Gail B. Nickerson
Belgian Malts: Some Practical Observations
	George J. Fix
Reinheitsgebot and the Fifth Ingredient
	Martin Schiller
The Troubleshooter: Hung Fermentations, Water Analysis Tables, and 
Eggs in Beer
	Dave Miller
Brewing in Styles: American Wheat Beers
	Roger Bergen
Thinking about Beer Recipe Formulation
	Darryl Richman
Spreadsheet for Recipe Design
	Karl King
Technical Communications: Dispensing from Kegs, Dry Hopping 
Recommendations
Book Review: Lambic


Vol. 1 No. 2: July/August 1993 
(Cover art: Airlock, test tube, glass baster)
Diacetyl: Formation, Reduction, and Control
	George J. Fix
Malt Extracts: Cause for Concern
	Martin Lodahl
Methods of Sanitization and Sterilization
	Maribeth Raines
Quick Results for Quality Assurance: Simple Laboratory Methods for 
Microbrewers
	Frank Commanday
The Troubleshooter: Cultured Dregs, Challenging Infections, and 
Home-Kilning Malt
	Dave Miller
Brewing in Styles: Oktoberfest Alternatives
	Roger Bergen
Blending and the Art of Salvage
	Chris Studach
Technical Communications: Aquarium aerators revisited
Information for Authors


Vol. 1 No. 3: September/October 1993 
(Cover art: barley heads)
Brewing with Rye
	Rosannah Hayden
Ale's Well in England
	Christopher Nemeth
Understanding Specific Gravity and Extract
	Martin P. Manning
Water Treatment: Philosophy, Approach, and Calculations
	Karl King
The Troubleshooter: Exposing Beer to Air, Selecting Brewpub Filter 
Systems, and the 
Low-Down on Copper Pennies
	Dave Miller
Brewing In Styles: Porters--Then and Now
	Roger Bergen
On-Line Connections to Far-Flung Fellow Brewers
	Tim Tillman
Technical Communications: Spreadsheet for Recipe Design Revisited
Information for Authors


Vol. 1 No. 4: November/December 1993 
(Cover art: SS cask on cross bucks)
Beer from the Stainless: Producing Traditional British Cask Beers in 
America
	Dick Cantwell, Fal Allen, and Kevin Forhan
Brewers' Wish Lists
	Rosannah Hayden
Hot Trub: Formation and Removal
	Ron Barchet
The Troubleshooter: Rice as an Adjunct, Hot-Side Aeration, Sparge 
Water pH, Aluminum Kettles, and Malting Methods
	Dave Miller
Brewing in Styles: A Stout Comparison
	Roger Bergen
Great Commercial Beer from Malt Extract
	Donald R. Outterson
The In-Laws' Refrigerator
	Kieran O'Connor
Technical Communications: Correction: Water treatment calculations 
table update
BrewsBriefs: Brew on premises: Canada's alternative, Great American 
Beer Festival takes America to a mile-high high
Book Review: Sake (USA)


Vol. 2 No. 1: January/February 1994 
(Cover art: Basket full of hops)
Hop Storage: How to Get--and Keep--Your Hops' Optimum Value
	Mark Garetz
The Essential Oil of Hops: Aroma and Flavor in Hops and Beer
	Glenn Tinseth
The Bushwick Pilsners: A Look at Hoppier Days
	Ben Jankowski
Recipe Formulation Calculations for Brewers
	Martin Manning
Ask the Troubleshooter: Hop Utilization, Keg Carbonation, and 
Diacetyl Rests in Lager Fermentations
	Dave Miller
Brewing in Styles: California Steaming
	Roger Bergen
BrewsBriefs: Neither Rain, Nor Sleet, Nor Even Snow... (Beer of the 
month clubs)


Vol. 2 No. 2: March/April 1994 
(Cover art: multicolor map of Europe/Africa/India)
Online Information Sources for Brewers
	Stephen Mallery and Julie Mansisidor
Cold Trub: Implications for Finished Beer, and Methods of Removal
	Ron Barchet
Parti-Gyle Brewing
	Randy Mosher
Modifying Half-Barrel Kegs for Use as Brewing Vessels
	Martin Manning
A Three-Tiered Gravity-Flow Brewing System
	Bob Caplan
Beer Tree: A Three-Tiered System with Roots in Simplicity
	David O'Neil
High-Tech Home Brewing
	Robert McIlvane
Ask the Troubleshooter: Wort Recirculation, Kegging Mead, 
Gelatinization, and Other Questions
	Dave Miller
Brewing in Styles: India Pale Ale, Part I: IPA and Empire--Necessity 
and Enterprise Give Birth to a Style
	Thom Tomlinson
Technical Communications: Recipe Design Color Correction Factor, Hop 
Bitterness Estimation, Priming Methods Compared, Hops Question


Vol. 2 No. 3: May/June 1994 
(Cover art: Manway on a unitank)
Explorations in Pre-Prohibition American Lagers
	George J. Fix
Hops in the Backyard: From Planting to Harvest and the Hazards in 
Between
	Stephanie Montell
Yeast Culturing Practices for Small-Scale Brewers
	Karl King
Simple Detection of Wild Yeast and Yeast Stability
	Rodney L. Morris
Ask the Troubleshooter: Water Hardness, Dextrin Malt, Malt Shelf 
Life, and Careers in Brewing
	Dave Miller
Brewing in Styles: India Pale Ale, Part II--The Sun Never Sets
	Thom Tomlinson
Mashing Made Easy
	Jack Schmidling
Letter to the Editor about stealing/misusing kegs (brewery property)
Technical Communications: Warning: Kegs Under Pressure, Planispiral
Wort Chiller, BruProbe Accuracy Misstated, More on Recipe
Formulation Calculations
BrewsBriefs: Home Brew U: A New Institution
Book Review: The Brewer's Companion

Dennis Lewis                  *   <dlewis%jscdo6 at jesnic.jsc.nasa.gov>
Homebrew, The Final Frontier  *  After June 24th, <aw405 at yfn.ysu.edu>


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Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 08:26:56 PST
From: Jack St Clair <Jack_St_Clair at ccm.co.intel.com>
Subject: Lids on Steins


Text item: Text_1

     In HBD#1444, Jim Cave asked "Why are there Lids on German beer 
     steins?"  Well, the story I heard many years ago was that they were 
     there to make it more difficult for someone to tamper (ie. poison) 
     your beer, a practice that was quite common in medieval days.  I'm 
     sure there are lots of other stories about the origin of the lids, 
     let's hear them.
     
     Jack St.Clair
     Portland, Oregon
     Jack_st_clair at ccm.co.intel.com

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Date: Wed, 08 Jun 1994 11:17:36 EDT
From: KMYH09A at prodigy.com ( LARRY KELLY)
Subject: Using Polyclar

I have read through many back issues of HBD on the use of Polyclar to help
reduce chill haze.  I have a couple of question I could not find in the
back issues.

Can Polyclar be used in any type of brew?  Most messages I saw in HBD
mentions people largering their brew, can Polyclar be used in Ales too?

Also since Polyclar is supposed to help bring suspended yeast to the bottom
on the fermenter, does this lower yeast content, when bottling, affect the
conditioning of the bottle beer? Does it take longer to carbonate, using
corn sugar, because of the lower yeast content?

Also should the amount of corn sugar, 3/4 cup to 5 gallons, remain the same
or should one increase the amount of sugar?

Larry
KMYH09A at prodigy.com


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Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 09:38:20 -0500
From: steve at snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick)
Subject: British Lager Malt?

Our local homebrew supply store carries British Lager Malt (Munton & Fison,
I believe). Does anyone out there have experience with this malt? I am
looking to brew a lager with good malt taste and aroma (perhaps an
Oktoberfest). I know that a German malt, such as Ireks, is recommmended but
I don't have local access to German malts. Will this British malt give a
better malt profile than Klages?

Steve Zabarnick


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Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 10:44:00 PDT
From: Karl Elvis MacRae <batman at cisco.com>
Subject: Re:  Lids on German Steins

>From: Jim Cave <CAVE at PSC.ORG>
>Subject: Lids on German Steins
> 
>        I was asked the other day "Why are there e: s on German Beer Steins?"
>I thought it might have been an inovation for farmers and the like to keep
>dirt and straw and such out of their beer while working in the fields.  Does
>anyone know the real reason/history of it.

	Flies.

	At one point in Europe (And I forget the date on this; the
	1700's? Something like that; I read this a couple of years
	ago so it slips my mind), there was a tremendous plague of
	flies; the lids were to keep them out of your beer while
	you sat in the beer garden....

	Or so goes the story *I* heard.....

			-Karl

  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  Karl Elvis MacRae	Software Release Support	Cisco Systems
  batman at cisco.com     415-688-8231 DoD#1999       1993 Vulcan Eighty-Eight 
  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
		"Hi, you look different! Are you a puppet?"
					-Barb

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Date: 08 Jun 1994 12:55:12 GMT
From: "WSZ551" <INFORMM.WSZ551 at UIAMVS.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1444 (June 08, 1994)







Hello everyone]]]
This is my first week on the system and I have been thoroughly
impressed with the content and quality of the Digest.  If it is
not asking too much, could someone please send me their favorite
wheat, nut brown ale, and/or pale ale recipes.

Please send via internet to:
william-zimmer at uiowa.edu

THANKS IN ADVANCE]

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Date: 08 Jun 1994 13:16:13 GMT
From: "WSZ551" <INFORMM.WSZ551 at UIAMVS.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU>
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1444 (June 08, 1994)







Hello everyone]]]
This is my first week on the system and I have been thoroughly
impressed with the content and quality of the Digest.  If it is
not asking too much, could someone please send me their favorite
wheat, nut brown ale, and/or pale ale EXTRACT recipes.

Please send via internet to:
william-zimmer at uiowa.edu

THANKS IN ADVANCE]

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Date: Wed, 08 Jun 94 14:38:28 EDT
From: WDPROWC at aol.com
Subject: Homebrew digest subscription

Please cancel my on-line subscription

Thank you


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Date: Wed, 08 Jun 1994 14:33:18 EDT
From: KMYH09A at prodigy.com ( LARRY KELLY)
Subject: Using Polyclar

Antoher question concerning Polyclar.  How do you use it? DO you have to
sterlize it first (ie. boiling)?  How much do you add?

Larry
KMYH09A at prodigy.com


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Date: Wed, 8 Jun 94 13:56 CDT
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: ORACLE SPEAKS

 
 >From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
 
 >What do you know, I expect the Oracle to respond directly, but instead
 I get flamed by a Don Put <dput at csulb.edu>:
 
 It was clear from your remarks that it wasn't the article that bothered you 
 quite as much as the name of the author.  As Don pointed out, you obviously 
 "responded" without even taking the time to read it.
 
 There is not much more I need say but now that you have awakened the sleeping 
 tiger by tweeking his tounge with you finger, I might as well bite it off.
 
 <I just got done skimming this misinformation as printed in the latest
 issue of Brewing Techniques.  I got pretty peeved for two reasons, one
 is that "tips" like these have no basis in brewing science...
 
 Who called it "science"?  I was simply describing a simple process to make an 
 all grain batch with the least amount of equipment, hassle and science.
 
 > and are contrary to accepted practice....
 
 So, all magazine articles should be re-runs of everything considered 
 "accepted parctice".  No creativity, novel ideas; just what has already been 
 published by the experts and accepted.   Who the hell needs a magazine for 
 that?  Like the HBD, BT is an idea exchange.  If you don't like the idea, 
 don't use it.  If you can prove it is a bad idea, feel free.
 
 < especially with regard to increased leaching of tannins from the lauter 
 tun.
 
 I didn't say anything about "increased leaching of tannins", but you are free 
 to expound as you wish.
 
 <Im sure the "Oracle" has something silly to say about all of this.
 
 I think most will agree that you took care of the "something silly", I will 
 respond to the original question which I seem to have missed on the first 
 round.
 
 I know nothing about excessively hot sparge water other than what has been 
 stated repeatedly and I "accept" the caveat that it should not exceed 170F 
 with a major qualification.
 
 It has been my experience with kettle mashing and sparging that the rate of 
 heat loss through the surface and the kettle far exceeds the heat added by 
 sparging with boiling water.  The net result is that if you use boillng water 
 and sparge at a rate consistant with "accepted" practices, the actual mash 
 temperature will not even be 170F, let alone anything excessively higher.
 
 If you follow the "accepted" practice of using 170F water, the actual mash 
 temp will be on the order of 150F.
 
 I don't claim this to be a universal truth and it certainly does not apply to 
 insulated mash tuns but I was writing about a particular type of system and 
 what I said is how it works.
 
 Furthermore, the objective reader will recognize that I made no statement 
 that contradicts anything in the way of "accepted practices".  I simply 
 pointed out that one needs to make some temp measurements before blindly 
 using numbers that are "accepted" without understanding the basis for the 
 numbers.  The important consideration is mash temperature and not sparge 
 water temperature.
 
 
 
           Continued..............
 
 
 
 

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1445, 06/09/94