HOMEBREW Digest #1447 Sat 11 June 1994
Digest #1446
Digest #1448
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Sparge Temperatures / turbid wort ("McCaw, Mike")
Re:Tannin Extraction (Michael Froehlich)
bottle volume/priming rate (HEWITT)
Hunter Airstat Alternative (Gary S. Kuyat)
Mash Water Adjustments (Terri Terfinko)
Commemorative Bitter (VIALEGGIO)
BT Index (BTcirc)
Racking wort to secondary in 8 hours? ( LARRY KELLY)
Copper/brass in the primary fermenter ("JAMES W. KEESLER")
A Sticky Situation (Tim P McNerney)
Dunkelweizen (Marvin Crippen)
Peculier Recipes (Simon W. Bedwell)
Lids on steins (Derek Bowen)
My first all grain/raspbeery ale recipe/KitchenAid grain mill (GONTAREK)
Re: Wort Aeration (John DeCarlo x7116 )
Re: Wort Aeration (John DeCarlo x7116 )
Brewpubs Denver/Copper Mountain (Ron Hart)
neck rings (Jeff Frane)
SINGHA RECIPE ("Bob Knetl")
extract pale ale recipe (Jeff Frane)
RE: comments from the bitter & arrogant one! (Jim Busch)
thermometer correction? (RONALD DWELLE)
First runnings/second runnings (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Skunkiness (Nancy.Renner)
Closing Sankey Kegs ("Mr. Dudley")
signoff ("Pete Brauer 312/915-6157" )
This, that, and the other (Thomas_Fotovich-U2347)
Beer's Law (TODD CARLSON)
Clarification to Sankey sealing (Nancy.Renner)
Physics ("pratte")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 94 09:18:00 PDT
From: "McCaw, Mike" <mccaw at wdni.com>
Subject: Sparge Temperatures / turbid wort
Just wanted to add my $0.02 worth on sparge temperatures. I have a number
of batches under my belt with my new modified keg 3-vessel setup. The first
few times, I religiously kept the sparge tank in the 170 - 175 deg. range,
and was puzzled by my long sparges and lower than expected extraction rates.
When I checked the thermometer mounted in the mash/lauter tun, lo and
behold it never got above 150 deg!
Now this could be one of two things. Either it is simple thermodynamics (My
mashes end up around 150-155, and I havn't been doing mash-outs), or Jack is
right and we lose a lot more heat in the sparge plumbing and to evaporation
than one would think.
I checked this in my last batch - raised the mash temp to 172, and sparged
with water at 175 deg. 15 minutes into the sparge, the mash/lauter tun temp
was 150 deg!
This boy is going to raise his sparge water temp significantly for the next
batch.
Now the question. This batch (my standard pale ale recipe), which is the
first to get a mash-out, is the most turbid wort I have ever fermented!
There was a lot of cold break evident in the line from the wort chiller,
but the line to the chiller was somewhat turbid, and it is usually crystal
clear. No big settlement of trub in primary. It has been fermenting for
four days now, and still looks like a block of alabaster. Could the
mash-out have caused this? (Maybe I extracted some more starch from the
grains?)
Gee, maybe I should pitch some Brett and see if I can get a pLambic out of
it!
Thanks
Mike McCaw (mccaw at wdni.com)
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 10:13:36 -0700
From: froeh at trojan.naa.rockwell.com (Michael Froehlich)
Subject: Re:Tannin Extraction
Jim Busch wrote:
>Wrong again, Don. If you use sparge water above 180F, you are going to
>increase the tannins extracted.
Jim,
Could you please explain why tannins are not extracted when doing decoction
mashing which requires boiling of the grains and adding them back into the
mash. As I understand it, tannin extraction is a function of temperature
and mash pH. The lower the pH, the lower the tannin extraction. Thanks.
Don't want to part of a flaming, but this issue is important as most
home brewers would stay away from decoction mashing with your logic.
Sincerely,
Michael Froehlich |~~|
froeh at ecrsb.naa.rockwell.com | |) "Cheers!"
|__|
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 13:29 EDT
From: HEWITT at arcges.arceng.com
Subject: bottle volume/priming rate
Due to recent visits to Germany and an affinity for Tucher Bajuvator
available in Virginia, I have built a sizable collection of 0.5L returnable
bottles for homebrewing. They reduce the tediousness of filling 48 12-oz
bottles per batch to a mere 34, reduce the number of trips to the fridge
for refills, yet the volume is still low enough that it's not too painfull
to give away samples to friends. Besides, I'd do anything to feel an inch
closer to relaxing in a Bavarian Biergarten.
That's my experience, now a question.
The priming rate I've used for my all-grain beers (usually high gravity)
has been 1/2 to 3/4 cup corn sugar. No problem carbonating at this level
except it's usually much too highly carbonated. I'm aware that priming rates
should be reduced for kegging and wonder if this is true in going from a
12 oz bottle to 0.5L (17 oz). Intuitively, it doesn't seem logical that
the beer volume should affect the degree of carbonation. Is there any
experience regarding bottle volume related to priming rate?
Pat Hewitt
Atlantic Research Corp., Va.
Internet: Hewitt at arceng.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 14:26:23 EDT
From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com>
Subject: Hunter Airstat Alternative
Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat
Johnson Controls makes an EXCELLENT controller that uses a solid state
thermocouple design. This thing will go from -20F to 100F and supports both
heating and cooling applications! It is a little more pricey than the hunter
at just less than $60 retail. The Brewmiester in Cranford, NJ (1-800-322-3020)
can will sell these for $58.50 each. I recommend this controller highly! It
is TOTALY configurable, can work for heating or cooling, has an ajustable
"differential" (the amount the temperature may wander off the set point) from
1 to 20 degrees Fahrenheight! It has C and F scales on the face, and can be
mounted hundreds of feet from the cooler. In my use, it has been quite
accurate. The only "catch" is that you'll need to get a short extension cord
and cut it in half. Using a screwdriver you can wire the terminals to the
cord in about 5 minutes. You end up with an extension cord with the controller
in the middle. Then, just plug in anything, and you can turn it on or off
when it gets too hot or cold! I don't have the model number off hand, but
the Brewmeister will know what I'm talking about. Wiring is explained in simple
diagrams in the instruction booklet. If you would even consider the rewiring
of the Hunter required for lagering (unmodified hunter only went down to 40F)
then this will be a breeze!
- --
-Gary Kuyat
gsk at sagan.bellcore.com
(908)699-8422
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 94 14:29:17 EDT
From: terfintt at ttown.apci.com (Terri Terfinko)
Subject: Mash Water Adjustments
When I started all grain brewing, I was advised to add 1 teaspoon of gypsum
to my mash because it would help things along. I am seeking the advice of the
HBD to better understand the purpose gypsum serves. The label on my
gypsum container states that it is a water hardener. I do understand the
importance of having an acidic PH 5.1 - 5.5 for mashing, but not sure why it is
advisable to add gypsum regardless of water PH or hardness.
I feel it is important to understand the makeup of my water so I had an
analysis done. The PH of 6.1 matched my litmus paper calculations. I am not
sure how to determine from the mineral analysis if my water is soft or very soft
Here is the analysis report. I included the whole report since I am not sure
which minerals determine hardness. What the heck does MG/L or UG/L stand
for? Books I read referred to PPM. Any advice on mashing adjustments I
should make would be appreciated.
PH 6.1
T ALK CAC03 16.0 MG/L
RES DISS/105 110.0 MG/L
NH3-N .02 MG/L
NO2-N .004 MG/L
NO3-N 1.47 MG/L
PHOS-TOTAL .03 MG/L
C TOT ORGAN 1.2 MG/L
T HARD CACO3 27.0 MG/L
CA TOTAL 9.02 MG/L
MG 3.06 MG/L
NA 4.63 MG/L
K 1.38 MG/L
CL 5.00 MG/L
SO4 TOTAL 23.0 MG/L
SILICA TOTAL 17.95 MG/L
AS 4.0 UG/L
BA 39.0 UG/L
CD 10.0 UG/L
CR TOT 50.0 UG/L
CU TOT 10.0 UG/L
FE 334.0 UG/L
PB 4.0 UG/L
MN 31.0 UG/L
ZN TOT 74.0 UG/L
Terry Terfinko - terfintt at ttown.apci.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 1994 12:54:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: VIALEGGIO at ccmail.sunysb.edu
Subject: Commemorative Bitter
State University of New York at Stony Brook
Stony Brook, NY 11794-5475
Victor Ialeggio
Music
516 632-7239
08-Jun-1994 12:39pm EDT
FROM: VIALEGGIO
TO: Remote Addressee ( _homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com )
Subject: Commemorative Bitter
Recipe to share -- a bitter brewed June 6,
commemorative by default:
6.5# pale 2 row
1# biscuit
1# carapils
.5# crystal
handful roasted barely
mash strike temp.=153 deg.(1.5 hrs. or so)
mashout 168-170
75 min. boil, two additions of Fuggles/Kent Goldings,
50/50 proportion, aiming for IBU=32.
1 oz Goldings to steep (kettle off the heat).
OG=.1052
Dosed with 1 qt Fullers ESB yeast.
(active ferment after 6 hours; full speed ahead by 24 hours)
vialeggio at ccmail.sunysb.edu
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 94 16:30:51 EDT
From: BTcirc at aol.com
Subject: BT Index
>From "Dennis Lewis"
>Subject: BT Index
>This past weekend I decided to put together an index of >BrewingTechniques.
A comprehensive index by subject and author will be published in the
November/December 1994 issue of BrewingTechniques. We use an index for our
own purposes similar to Dennis' but organized by departments (i.e. features,
technical articles, columns, and brewers' forum). It is updated each issue.
Requests to receive this index can be made to btcirc at aol.com.
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 1994 19:01:02 EDT
From: KMYH09A at prodigy.com ( LARRY KELLY)
Subject: Racking wort to secondary in 8 hours?
I just finished reading Millers book: The Complete Handbook of Homebrewing
He mentions that the wort should be racked in the secondary fermenter 8
hours after racked into the primary.
WHY?? Doesn't that give a better chance to contaminate the wort? Yes, I
know about trub build up, but if you pitch the yeast and the yeast finishes
in a few days and then rack into the secondary, a few days is no big deal.
So why does he say 8 hours?
Larry
KMYH09A at prodigy.com
Return to table of contents
Date: 09 Jun 94 19:47:42 EDT
From: "JAMES W. KEESLER" <74021.376 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Copper/brass in the primary fermenter
I am contemplating using copper/brass fittings for my drain valve in my
primary fermenter. Does anyone have any experience with beer having
prolonged exposure to copper/brass? I do not want to spend the money
if my beer is going to obtain off flavors from the metals.
I asked this before, but I received no response: Does anyone have any
information on whether there will be a second New York Brew Festival?
I was under the impression that the first was a success, but have heard
nor seen nothing if they are going to do it again. Any info appreciated.
Regards,
Jim
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Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 13:25:33 +0800
From: tpm at wdl.loral.com (Tim P McNerney)
Subject: A Sticky Situation
The fridge conversion is almost done now (two faucets with the third on
backorder) and I have run into a minor problem. Sometimes I won't have a
particular beer for a couple of days and in that time the faucet tends to
get all gummed up. Basically, some of the beer will dry up which makes it
difficult to pour the next beer.
So does anyone have a nice simple solution or a nice simple solution that
takes care of this problem. I don't want to detach the hose after each use
and drain the beer in the tube, which though effective, more or less defeats
the purpose of having a draft system.
Thanks for any help.
________________________________
- --Tim McNerney
- --Loral Western Development Labs
- --(408) 473-4748
- --tpm at wdl.loral.com
Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 13:20:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marvin Crippen <mandos at u.washington.edu>
Subject: Dunkelweizen
Here is my recipe for a Dunkelweizen
7 lb Dark Wheat Malt
2.5 lb Munich Malt
2 lb Caravienna Malt
.5 lb Carapils Malt
1 oz Hallertaur Hersb.(2.9 AAU) 60 m
1 oz Tettnanger (6.2 AAU) 15m
1 oz Hallertaur Hersb. (2.9 AAU) 1m
Single Step Infusion (no protein rest) at 158
Wyeast #3068
O.G. 1.052 T.G. 1010
I ended up repitching the yeast from a previous batch (Room-mates bavarian
weizen, D&M Brockington) and the yeast didn't create the banana & clove
taste, but the aroma was right on. I think the yeast had just been used too
many times.
The beer scored a 37 and NHC and a 30 at Heart of the Valley. The NHC judges
thought I'd used chocolate malt to get the color, go figure. I personally
think the color ended too dark. Next time I'm going to try 3 lb Caravienna,
2 lb English Pale, and 7 lb Wheat.
- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marvin Crippen Defender of Freedom, Arbitrator of Justice
mandos at u.washington.edu All Around Nice Guy, NOT!
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Return to table of contents
Date: 08 Jun 1994 13:20:42 GMT
From: Simon_W._Bedwell at metro.mactel.org (Simon W. Bedwell)
Subject: Peculier Recipes
In HBD #1441 Debbie Gandert requests 'Old Peculier' recipes. Here are two to
try; I don't claim authorship for either:
Recipe #1, reproduced without permission from 'Brewing Beers Like Those You
Buy' by the late Dave Line, published (I think) by Kent's in the US.
Recipe makes 5 UK gallons
4lb Dark Malt Extract
8oz Crushed Roast Barley
8oz Crushed Crystal Malt
2lb Soft Brown Sugar
2oz Fuggles Hops (Bittering)
3oz Black Tracle (Barrel priming)
Brew using your favourite technique for non-mashed beer and ferment with your
favourite ale yeast.
Recipe #2, reproduced without permission from 'Brew Your Own Real Ale at
Home' by Graham Wheeler and Roger Protz, published by CAMRA, ISBN
1-85249-113-2.
Recipe makes 23 litres
3.3kg Dark Malt Extract
620g Crushed Crystal Malt
120g Black Malt
500g Maltose Syrup
500g Invert Sugar
30g Challenger Hops (Bittering)
35g Fuggles Hops (Bittering)
12g Fuggles Hops (Aroma)
Brew using your favourite technique for non-mashed beer and ferment with your
favourite ale yeast.
I've left out specific brewing instructions as these are inevitably subject
to individual preferences. If anyone wants step-by-step instructions, email
me directly.
It is interesting to note that the 'original' Old Peculier was fermented in
Yorkshire stone squares, using a Northern England Ale Yeast which required
frequent rousing to keep the fermentation going. The 'peculier' attributes of
this type of yeast played a significant part in the overall flavour profile
of the beer. Following Scottish & Newcastle breweries' takeover of
Theakstons, 90% of O.P. now made is brewed by in large stainless-steel
fermenters in Newcastle-on-Tyne, Northern England, using a more
general-purpose yeast. Thus much of the original flavour has, in my opinion,
been lost. BTW, Paul Theakston still brews in Masham (aptly named),
Yorkshire. His beer is called 'Black Sheep Ale' and is well worth seeking
out.
Wishing you many trubless worts.
- --
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Date: Thu, 9 Jun 1994 07:30:15 -0400
From: derek at bex.com (Derek Bowen)
Subject: Lids on steins
After seeing so many answers on the lid question I decided to get to the
bottom of it. So, I called our office in Germany. Our beer guy there said
the reason was just to keep it fresh. Afterall, the steins are usually about
1 litre in size and it may take quite a while to drink.
However, this guy may not know the historical significance of the lids,
(flies??), so I suspect that the reason for the lids is a combination of
tradition and freshness.
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 8:03:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV
Subject: My first all grain/raspbeery ale recipe/KitchenAid grain mill
Greetings to all in Homebrewland. For those of you who have been
following my first all-grain adventure, it was a huge success!! To
recap, I made an all-grain golden ale with a minimum of extra expense.
It has now been in the bottle three weeks, and it is very good. It
was also the cheapest (ie, least expensive) brew I've ever made. I am
now hooked on all-grain. For those of you on the edge on contemplation,
just do it.
My first all-grain batch was made by borrowing a corona grain
mill from a buddy. Because I want to continue the all-grain brewing,
I have been looking into inexpensive grain mills. My wife and I
received a beautiful Kitchen Aid stand-up mixer as a wedding gift
last year, and I understand that a grain mill attachment is made
that is compatible with it. The price I got from a local
distributer was about $180, but my Dad works in food service and
can get me one for $90. Has anyone used this type of grain mill
set-up (either for homebrewing or anything else)? Is it worth
the investment? I would appreciate hearing from anyone with
information regarding the Kitchen Aid grain mill.
Due to many requests for my fruit beer recipe, I've
decided to post publicly.
Rick's Raspbeery Ale
Ingredients
1 can Alexander's Sun Country Pale Malt extract
2 lbs. light dry malt extract
0.5 lb crystal malt
2 ounces Cascade hops (45 minute boil)
0.5 ounce Cascade hops (finish)
5 lbs picked and frozen raspberries
YeastLabs Canadian Ale yeast starter
4 tablespoons pectic enzyme
Prepare yeast starter a day or two ahead of time.
Steep crystal malt in two gallons of water, remove before boiling
commences. Add malt extracts and boiling hops, boil for 45 minutes.
Add finishing hops, boil for 5 minutes. Turn heat off and add
pureed raspberries. Cover and let steep for 15-20 minutes. Dump
everything into primary fermenter (after wort has cooled), bring
volume up to 5 gallons of water, Dump in yeast. Add pectic enzyme.
Go in primary for 4 days, transfer to secondary and bottle when
clear with 1 cup corn sugar.
The original gravity was 1.042, final was 1.010
The resulting brew was very tasty, with almost a pinkish head. It
was tart, not overwhelmingly raspberry-ee.
Several HBD 'ers have suggested adding 1/3 of the fruit to the
primary, and the other 2/3 in the secondary so the aroma and flavor
doesn't get scrubbed away during fermentation.
This is a good one, one of my best. Enjoy it, and let me know
how it turns out!
Cheers to all of you
Rick Gontarek
gontarek at ncifcrf.gov
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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 09:11:54 EST
From: John DeCarlo x7116 <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Wort Aeration
George Fix writes:
>I am currently working on a new book (Principles of Brewing Science II.
>Practical Considerations) which I hope to get to the publisher by
>December. Wort aeration is one subject that I wanted to treat in
>detail. Since this is something that has recently been discussed in
>this forum, I felt some of our preliminary results may be of interest.
Thanks so much for the info. I wonder if you are also covering the
dynamic aspects of wort aeration. Two areas I have wondered about are:
1) How does the dissolved O2 number change over time as you are
pumping into wort without yeast in it (is it linear or not)?
2) How does the DO number change as the yeast begin respiration?
Another view of this question is: How much O2 would the yeast
want? If you max out the DO then pitch, would the yeast benefit
from more DO later in the process or is there enough already? Some
people I respect feel that the yeast can take up O2 fairly
rapidly, even while you are aerating, which might dictate a longer
aeration period or perhaps a second aeration period an hour or
three later.
Thanks.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 09:20:47 EST
From: John DeCarlo x7116 <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Wort Aeration
Oops, sorry my brain was on hold. I now understand that:
>We are currently doing the dynamic tests, where O2 levels
>are recorded as a function of time at various feed rates.
means that the dynamic tests are still underway. So ignore part 1) of
my post a few minutes ago. I am still curious as to the effect of the
yeast on the dynamic tests or at least how much they would make use of
under different circumstances.
Now if only I could figure out a way to cancel my articles--the software
doesn't like me because my "Reply-to" address is different from my
"From:" address.
Thanks again for your patience.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 09:09:23 -0500
From: Hart at actin.rutgers.edu (Ron Hart)
Subject: Brewpubs Denver/Copper Mountain
I'll be spending a night in Denver (near the Airport) and then 4-5 days in
Copper Mountain next month. Naturally, I turn to the local experts for
advice on brewpubs. Please e-mail any comments of location and quality
directly to me. If anyone else wishes a summary of the mail I get, I'll be
glad to forward. Thanks, folks, and I'm looking forward to some of that
Rocky Mountain brew!
Ron Hart
Department of Biological Sciences, Rutgers University Newark
hart at actin.rutgers.edu
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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 06:45:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com>
Subject: neck rings
A couple of brewers have asked about the problem of "ring around the
collar" in their bottles, and wondered about the lack of any off-flavor.
The answer is that YES, this is a contamination and YES it seems to be
otherwise benign. I have run across beer bottles like this numerous
times over the years in competitions (although not in the last several
years) and even had a batch of my own once (a long time ago, sonny).
But it does indicate a problem with sanitation somewhere, and is a
gentle nudge to figure out where you're taking shortcuts. It will also
cause an otherwise good beer to lose points in a competition.
- --Jeff
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Date: 10 Jun 1994 09:54:36 U
From: "Bob Knetl" <bob_knetl at amber.spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: SINGHA RECIPE
Subject:
Time:9:47
OFFICE MEMO SINGHA RECIPE
Date:6/10/94
Anyone have a recipe for an all grain or extract version which
approximates the great taste of SINGHA Thai beer. Please rely
direct or to the HBD. If you live near Arlington, VA or are visiting
check out the Crystal Thai Restaurant in the Arlington Forrest
Shopping Center on Route 50 for some great Thai food!
Thanks in advance,
Bob Knetl
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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 06:56:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com>
Subject: extract pale ale recipe
I rarely offer recipes, particularly extract-based recipes, but this
particular beer turned out well enough to share. I put it together for
my Beginning Brewing class -- one of the perks is that I get to drink
the beer. I've been trying to resolve problems with alpha acid
extraction and the correct amount of Irish Moss to use, and this one has
come very close to satisfying me. Effectively, I've doubled the
bittering hop rate and the Irish Moss rate that I would use for an
equivalent all-grain batch. Given that the process calls for boiling
1/2 the wort, this makes some sense.
My process calls for steeping the grains at about 150F for about one
hour before sparging them into a kettle, into which the extracts and
necessary water are then added. I also pre-boil the water which will be
added to bring the volume up to 5 gallons (I do it a day ahead and put
the carboy into the hop fridge at Steinbart's). If I had access to a
good laundry sink there I would force-chill the boiled wort before
adding it to the cold water, in order to bring the temperature down
quickly.
The Irish Moss caused a *massive* break. Without doing a full boil and
siphoning off through a wort chiller (which doesn't work for beginners,
does it?) I'm not sure how to prevent carrying over the hot break.
Ideas?
Jeff's Tasty Easy Pale
=====================
7# Steinbart's Extra Light Extract (Scottish)
1# Laaglander DME
1/4# flaked barley
1/4# flaked maize
3/4# Belgian Carapils
Hops: 1-1/2 oz. Northern Brewer pellets (ca. 8%) < after 15 min
1/2 oz East Kent Golding plug < after 60 min
1 oz East Kent Golding plug at end boil
1 Tablespoon Irish Moss -- rehydrated -- added at 60 min mark
Boil 90 min.
Yeast: Wyeast 1968 London ESB
<burp>
OG = ca. 1050
TG = ca. 1007
And about a 7.5 on the tasty scale
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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 10:01:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: RE: comments from the bitter & arrogant one!
Warning, No Jack bashing here!!!
Bob writes:
> From: Btalk at aol.com
> Subject: insulated lauter tun
>
> For insulating the sides, I wrap a 48" Thermarest self inflating camping
> mattress around the bucket and just tie it with two pieces of webbing. The
> Thermarest is about 2'' thick and insulates so well that you can barely feel
> any warmth on the outside of it after running gallons of 168F sparge water
> through the grain bed. Plus the Thermarest is easy to wash.
> An alternative would be to use an Ensolite camping pad. This stuff is quite
> supple. You may be able to glue it onto your tun.
This is excellent advice! I used Ensolite pads for quite a while and they
really worked well. I got some truck bed tie downs at Price Club, and they
hold the pads tight to the tun, giving a real good insulation factor.
>
> Besides, if you are into backpacking, the Thermarest is definitely the way to
> go.
Sadly, my brewery gets to use the pads more than backpacking these days.
Jack Skeels writes:
> My question: When this brew is done with it's primary, can I used my other
> Sankey as a secondary? That is, has anybody done this, and does it work? I
> figure that I can rack the secondary back to the cut-off pot, and then keg
> it right back, after I've cleaned out the sediment from the secondary
> fermentation. Is this so?
Sure, it works great. Moving the beer can be a pain, depending on your
setup. Sankeys work fine as open ferementers.
Andy writes:
> Mostly people are quite polite on the HBD. Where does Jim get his bitter
> arrogance from?
It must be all those Centennials and Cascades I use so much!!! You get much
more bitter using these, instead of those wimpy Hallertaus!
Bob writes:
>
> If you place your mash tun on the floor and pump up to the kettle you well
> essentially have the same layout. This is the way my brewery is layed out.
> It works well, I would not change one thing. Think about it.
Bobs right(again!). Flow down, let gravity help you out. I brew in my
backyard and run the wort into the basement to get additional "head" in the
system. I also mounted the kettle on an angle iron stand, 4 feet off the
ground.
> Don't know if you'll be in Denver for the conference, but would be happy to
> share ideas over a few. I always bring pictures of the brewery.
Boy, I wish! Next year.....
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 10:04:27 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: thermometer correction?
A dumb high-school chemistry question:
I just bought a new mercury floating thermometer and discovered
on my first mash/boil that it's off. At boil, it reads about
220-221 F. Can I assume the error is linear, always reading 8-9
degrees high? That is, if the thermo reads 150, I'm mashing at
141-142? Should I take it back and rant and rave and demand my
money back, or is this normal? (This was just a cheapo K-mart
kitchen floater.)
TIA
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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 10:07:50 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: First runnings/second runnings
ANDY WALSH writes:
> ... I found Spencer.W.Thomas's post on first-runnings quite
> useful. It would be interesting to know if the weaker,
> "second-runnings" beer shows any phenolic or astringent flavors (I
> chuck my grist out after the first one). Does it? Also, what
> gravities do you get off the second runnings?
I've made some quite good beer from the second runnings. They're not
any more phenolic or astringent than a normally sparged beer, IMHO.
"Second runnings" is perhaps not quite the right term. What I do is
to re-infuse the mash, and then sparge normally, watching the SG, etc.
The local water is quite soft, so I don't have pH problems; someone
with hard carbonate water might need to acidify it, I don't know.
The gravity of the second beer depends on how much sugar is left in
the mash, of course. Let's look at a concrete example:
18 lbs English Pale Malt
1 lb Belgian Aromatic Malt
1 lb Belgian Special B Malt
1 lb Pale Munich Malt
.1 lb Roasted Barley
First runnings beer:
Mashed with 7 gallons water (1.33 qt/lb), and took almost 5 gallons of
run-off at about 1.088. (What I'd expect from my chart, although
the amount collected is more in line with water retention of
.4qt/lb instead of the .6qt/lb used in the chart.)
Boiled down to 3.6 gallons at 1.122.
This beer is still fermenting at 50F. (brewed 3/26)
Second runnings beer:
Sparged 7 gallons at 1.024, boiled down to 5.5 gallons at 1.031.
I later added the "steepings" of a pound of English crystal to bring
the effective gravity up to about 1.033.
I brewed this beer for my wife's graduation party, loosely in the
"Scottish Light" style. I wanted a low-gravity "poundable", but
flavorful beer. It's got a really nice malty/caramel aroma, offset by
hop bitterness to give a crisp flavor. I don't find any phenolic
aroma or astringency in it.
I got lots of compliments on it, from folks most of whom drink "plain
American" beer (and a number of them said "I don't normally like
beer"). We went through over 5 liters of it at the party (30 people),
together with almost 5 liters of stout.
A note: I got lower than normal extraction on the second beer (I was
shooting for a "Scottish Heavy" around 1.036). I think this is
because this was my first batch in a different system, and I forgot to
account for the fact that it has a large "dead space" in the
mash/lauter tun underneath the false bottom (as opposed to my usual
copper-manifold in a Gott cooler system).
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 10:14:50 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Skunkiness
>From *Jeff* Renner
Paul Huneault likes the skunkiness of imported lagers. Paul, some people
will be incredulous that you like something that is considered a defect from
exposure to light. But you are by no means the first person I have heard of
who finds it pleasant. It's a neurological truism that the human brain
(well, actually the vertebral brain, as cattle, elephants and birds have
been documented to seek out fermenting fruit and become intoxicated) that
when our pleasure center is stimulated by ethanol, we form a pleasant
association with the delivery vehicle. Probably an endorphin release,
everything seems to be. This explains why alcoholic beverages are an
acquired taste, and why folks in other lands smack their lips over fermented
mare's milk, masticated maize, rye bread and water, and other fermenti we
might find revolting. (See Spring Zymurgy for some recipes for indigenous
brews.)
Your favorite, skunkiness, is formed when light of a specific wavelength
strikes and modifies a certain sulfur bearing portion of the iso-humulone
molecule (from hops) in the beer. This wavelength is fairly well filtered
out by brown glass, hence the choice of that color for beer bottles. Those
favorite imports of yours are marketed at home in brown bottles, but
somehow, the US market has come to associate green bottles with "import
quality." And, of course, your preference for these beers is because, even
with a slight skunkiness, they really are more interesting than Schludwiller.
So, your ever inquiring mind will ask, how does Miller avoid skunkiness in
MGD in clear bottles? Ahh, those clever folks at Miller don't use whole
hops. They use a patented hop extract in which the light sensitive portion
has been modified to render it unreactive.
Still want to make your beer skunky? Place it in clear bottles (or even the
whole carboy!) in direct sunlight. I've heard that even 15 minutes will
suffice. Florescent lights are also rich in the culprit wavelength. Want
to avoid it? Avoid direct light, use brown bottles, and cover your carboy.
Cut an "X" in the bottom of a paper grocery bag and put it upside down over
your carboy with the neck and airlock sticking out through the X. Actively
fermenting beers are not in too much danger from indirect light; the
suspended yeast keeps light from penetrating very far. Dark beers are less
sensitive for a similar reason.
Jeff
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Date: 10 Jun 1994 10:29:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Mr. Dudley" <S29711%22681 at utrcgw.utc.com>
Subject: Closing Sankey Kegs
Regarding Jeff Renners post:
I have used Sankey kegs (and soda kegs) and I agree with Jeff, stick with the
soda kegs for everything but the biggest brews. If your a glutton for
punishment, read on...
Jeff suggests leverage to close the kegs, clearly by his experience, this works
To give another option, I use a brass drift I borrowed from my auto shop
to drift the reatining ring into place. A friend planted the idea by using a
plastic screwdriver handle but I got tired of messing up a perfectly good
screwdriver. I also have an idea for a tool which will do it. Consider
cutting a circle out of a piece of wood or metal the same size as the neck of
the keg, then cut it through the center. By clamping it back together you have
a lock underneath the ridge around the fitting. Now drill three holes and use a
steering wheel puller and a socket (or the like) to press the center part down
and insert the ring. Be careful with the seals I have no idea where to get new
ones. I may construct a prototype out of 2" thick oak or another hardwood -
as I think pine would split.
If all this sounds like a fancy gear puller, it is - but the gear puller
doesn't work because the underside of the fitting on the keg is sloped. I
suppose you could modify that with a die grinder then use a gear puller but
that keg material doesn't grind or cut very well (I've tried).
I must admit these big kegs are great for a party but man, what a pain!
good luck
jeff
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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 09:45 CDT
From: "Pete Brauer 312/915-6157" <$W$PR42%LUCCPUA.BITNET at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: signoff
please sign me off this list, I am changing jobs. Thanks.
Return to table of contents
Date: 10 Jun 94 10:09:00 -0500
From: Thomas_Fotovich-U2347 at email.mot.com
Subject: This, that, and the other
Just a few comments:
Twist-off type capped bottle:
I have been using (and reusing) twist-off type capped bottles for
several years without one mishap. I use a bench capper to cap both
mead and beer in twist-off type capped bottles.
IPA:
BT has a two part article about IPAs (BT 2-2, BT 2-3). I was
intrigued by the hops content (40-60 IBUs, and I thought _I_ was a hop
head) and gravity (S.G. 1.060, F.G. 1.011). My previous attempt was
approx. 20 IBU with a S.G. of 1.040 and a F.G. 1.015. This should be
ready for the Fourth of July. Can't wait 8-).
Jack Bashing:
I find it hypocritical of the few who verbally attack Jack on the net
then bitch that Jack is wasting bandwidth with his retorts. I know if
someone lambasted me on the HBD I would response equally on the HBD.
If you don't want Jack "wasting" bandwidth, don't post an
EasyJackAttack (tm). Yes, I know Jack doesn't need my feeble attempt
at defending him. I'm just tired of the Jack Bashing.
HBD Content:
I think too many people are uptight about the content of the HBD
lately. I treat the digest just like a newspaper. I read the
heading/title of the article/message. If the title doesn't tickle my
fancy, it's on to the next article. I would encourage anyone and
everyone to write to the digest (just make is sort of beer related).
If Jack wants to talk about his mill, fine. If someone wants to post
and ad for the next Easy* (tm) beer thingamajig, great. Flamings,
fine. Misguide diatribes, okay by me. I have enjoyed the various
"discussions" lately, all-grain vs. extract, you name it mills war,
etc. In summary, let me censor what I want to read and what I don't
want to read.
#include <Standard.Disclaimer>
Paddy Fotovich
Motorola UDS
u2347 at email.mot.com
"I am, therefore I brew"
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 11:32:01 EST
From: carlsont at GVSU.EDU (TODD CARLSON)
Subject: Beer's Law
A Brief Chemisty Lesson:
A number of recent posts have correctly pointed out that
beer will appear much darker in a fermenter than in a glass.
In case you are curious, us chemists quantify the effect
with the equation:
A = abc
Where "A" is the absorbance of the solution, "a" is a
proportionality constant called the extinction coefficient,
"b" is the distance the light travels through the sample and
"c" is the concentration of the light absorbing substance.
As you see, the relavent factor here is "b". According to
the equation, the absorbance of the beer will be dirctly
proportional to the diameter of the container.
This relationship is gennerally refered to as BEER"S LAW!!
No Kidding.
todd
carlsont at gvsu.edu
PS. Please, the correct units for extraction efficiency is
(points-gal)/lb
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Date: Fri, 10 Jun 94 11:37:50 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Clarification to Sankey sealing
>From *Jeff* Renner
To clarify my earlier post: when you have the flat retaining ring started
and the gasket compressed, the ring will slip into its slot fairly easily.
Then force the ring outwards by twisting the blade of a *large* (I had said
small) screwdriver between the ring and the reducing coupling or whatever
else you use to press down on the tap. It should snap into place as you
work your way around the entire ring.
Jeff
Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 1994 11:09:59 EST
From: "pratte" <PRATTE at GG.csc.peachnet.edu>
Subject: Physics
In yesterday's HBD, Oracle Jack asked that we remember our physics
when dealing with sparging. Since I am still a lowly extract brewer,
I can't testify to the truth of this statement. However, as a
physicist, I find the statement very heartwarming.
A few comments on this raging debate on sparging temperatures. Let
us first remember that temperature and heat are two entirely
different things. Heat is energy; in fact, it is the energy
transferred between objects of different temperature. Temperature,
on the other hand, is simply the property of an object; namely, the
property that two objects have in common when no heat is being
transferred between them.
There are 3 types of heat transfer: conduction, convection, and
radiation. As far as sparging is concerned, I believe that radiation
is not a major concern (I could be wrong due to a lack of knowledge
about the intricacies involved in everbodies' processes.). Conductive
heat transfers occur because 2 objects of different temperature are
in thermal contact (ex. the hot flame is in contact with the cooler
pot, so heat is transferred to the pot). Convective heat transfers
occur by material movement and mixing (ex. you open the lid on the
pot and the hot, less dense steam goes upward and mixes with the
cooler room air). If you keep the lid on your sparging apparatus
(apparatii), you should be able to minimize convective heat losses,
meaning that the primary method of heat loss is by conduction.
This makes for a much easier physics problem since we have a simple
formula for conductive heat losses. It is
Q/t = k x A x (T2-T1) / d where
Q/t = heat rate loss (heat per unit time)
k = thermal conductivity
A = area of thermal contact
d = thickness of insulation (ex. thickness of sparging kettle)
k = thermal conductivity of insulation
T2 = hotter temperature (wort)
T1 = cooler temperature (room temperature)
If you are trying to maintain a steady temperature in your mashing
and sparging, you would need to minimize this formula.
Just a comment on a few other things that Jack stated. While it is
true that stainless steel is not a great insulator (compared to
styrofoam or fiberglas insulation), it is a fairly good insulator
compared to most of the metals used in pots. It has a thermal
conductivity of 0.3 J/(sec cm C), which is far less than any of the
aluminum alloys (1.8-3.0), iron (1.3), or copper (7.1). This means
that it will loose heat at a rate that is 1/4 to 1/24 of that of any
other pot (unless you use some other type of material for your pot).
(Note: all figures from CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, 63rd
Edition)
He also commented on extrapolating heat loss based on what it did
during the first 30 minutes (10 F lost). I hope that he is using the
above equation when he is doing that extrapolating. You will note
that as the temperature decreases, the rate at which the heat is lost
decreases. If we assume a room temperature of 75-80F in the kitchen,
then a drop from 170 F to 160 F means that the rate of heat loss due
to conduction has decreased by about 12-13%. Therefore, it not just
a simple matter of saying "10 F over 30 minutes means that 40 F will
be lost over 2 hours".
Sorry about the length of this post. But, it is a little less boring
than sitting in a classroom for 10 years listening to it. So be
thankful (unless you too are a physics geek).
John Pratte
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1447, 06/11/94