FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Cloudy beer (Alexander J Ramos)
  sources for malted barley (SIMJONES)
  Early Blooming Hallertau Hops (Mark Evans)
  Spruce Extracts (Alan_Deaton_at_CTC)
  CPR cpvers homebrew (Aaron Birenboim)
  RE: Alt Bier Yeast (Jim Busch)
  Aflatoxin in moldy grain ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD")
  Yeasty beer/Malt liquor (Philip Gravel)
  Propane burners/Grain mill shipping (Philip Gravel)
  Filtration (George J Fix)
  Alternative to dry hopping ?? (keith.prader)
  Starter Media Again (Jeff Frane)
  Fw: Fw: Fw: Internet Virus Alert (Jim Brewster)
  cancel article 06161050.1152 (Jim Brewster)
  Filters and clarification (keith.prader)
  What's this fuzzy stuff? (Karl Elvis MacRae)
  Kingfisher Beer and Mark Garetz's Book (Jack Skeels)
  Australian Pubs (Robert Pryor)
  re:somebody help me dryhop.. (Steven B Gruver)
  Rightful brewing (Ilkka Sysil{)
  dryhopping/oak in IPAs/bottle bombs (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Disinfectant (fischer)
  king kookers (Btalk)
  Good Baltimore Microbrew Pub (e048???? - Dan Bethke)
  1st Annual State Fair of TEXAS H (Ken Haycook)
  Brass vs. Plastic Valves ("JAMES W. KEESLER")
  Montreal Beer Fest (Richard Nantel)
  Floaters Solved by Cold and Drinking ("Andrew C. Winner")
  A dry hopped beer with really nice legs ("Steven W. Smith")


Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from 
  sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via 
  mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu.  Send HELP as the body of a 
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) 
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 09:08:10 -0400
From: Alexander J Ramos <geotex at eecs.umich.edu>
Subject: Cloudy beer


Greetings:  

I have been brewing for about 2 years now (from extracts) and I am 
very happy with my finished products. A problem that I have been unable
to beat thus far, however is getting the beer clear.  Here is a quick
overview of my process:

Boil
Chill with immersion chiller
Filter through mesh collander into primary (poured through)
When primary fermentation stops, rack to secondary.
When beer clears in secondary, rack to bucket, bottle.

I am not using any agents to help clear the beer right now.  Does anyone
have any suggestion on how to get my beer from being cloudy?


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 10:19:05 -0400 (AST)
From: SIMJONES at Upei.CA
Subject: sources for malted barley

Finally time to get into all grain brewing. Could someone direct me 
to a supplier of malted grains in Atlantic Canada or New England. 

Many Thanks.

Simon Jones (SIMJONES at UPEI.CA)
AVC, UPEI
Charlottetown, PEI

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 08:29:55 -0600
From: evanms at lcac1.loras.edu (Mark Evans)
Subject: Early Blooming Hallertau Hops

        I have a hallertau vine that is showing some very early, very
healthy looking hop cones.  This seems a bit strange.  At least a bit
early.  I guess the obvious course of action is to lower the poles and
harvest the cones when ready.  Is anyone else experiencing such an early
produce of cones? What varieties? Where are you located?  
        This pole has 3-5 hallertau vines on it but only one is conin' out.
None of my Mt. Hood or Saaz are doing it.   I'm hoping that I can harvest
and then reset the pole for a second (and third?) harvest in
August/September when they usually produce.  E-me with your hoppy
experiences.  Also, anyone do the fish emulsion spray route to control
pests/fertilize?

Brewfully yours in the Midwest (where high temps are challenging my
abilities to brew heat wave ales.)

Mark Evans

                           

      =================================================================
                  |       Mark Evans      Dubuque, Iowa      |
                  |              Practitioner of             |
     *            |   Visual, Literary, and Zymurgistic arts |        *
                  |           Evanms at LCAC1.Loras.edu         |
                  |               319-582-3139               |
      =================================================================



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 07:58:05 
From: Alan_Deaton_at_CTC at relay.aar.com
Subject: Spruce Extracts


Text item: Untitled


     I just read mr. 00rjzakjr's posting about his success with brewing 
spruce beer using bottled spruce essence.  I feel the need to 
clarify something.  In Charlie's book, the recipe calls for 1/2
bottle spruce essence.  Beware, different manufacturers produce
different  concentrations of spruce in their extracts.  
A couple of years ago I brewed a batch of spruce beer.  I followed 
Charlie's recipe to the letter, however,  having relaxed with perhaps
a few too many homebrews previous to brewing, I failed to notice the
manufacturers recommenation  on the back of the bottle instructing
me to use 1 ~ 1 1/2  tablespoons  per 5 gallon batch.  Since then I have
seen the very same spruce essence in more than one size of bottle at
my local supply store. 
 As Tom Waits says, "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away."

The result of this oversight was 576 ounces of a fluid that resembled 
Pine-Sol in all ways except cleansing power and  public ridicule which
continues to this day when I make any mention of beers with  non-stanard 
ingredients.
The point is this:  Be careful with spruce.  I'm sure it can add a wonderful
new dimension to homebrew,  but it must be used in the same moderation that
homebrew is consumed while brewing.  

One last thing,  I have been forbid from brewing any more spruce beer.
If there is anybody in the Chicago area who would be willing to trade 
some spruce beer for some magnificent honey ale, let me know.
I'll do the driving.  I would like to know what a good one tastes like.

"It would have been O.K. if it had cleaned the stains off the kithcen counter"
                                                                              
 -The woman I love                                        

/Alan Deaton                alan_deaton at relay.aar.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 08:05:47 MDT
From: abirenbo at redwood.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Subject: CPR cpvers homebrew


    On my way to work, Colorado public radio did a nice piece on
homebrewing.  Featured was one of the newer members of the Unfermentables
John Barnholt.  John, you came across great.  He's been brewing about a
year, and is active in the steering commitee of the Unfermentables,\
and will be head organizer of our competition this fall.  He took
the reporter through a specialty and extract stout brewing session,
and mande some nice comments on beer and beer style in general.

Also featured was Mark Evanson, owner fo the areas oldest brewing shop,k
and if I'm not mistaken, the voices of Andy (dangit andy...  whats your last
name), Jim Edgins, and others while judging at nationals.  I was there,
and never noticed any reporters, outside of one from what's brewing magazine...
a local beer publication (and some folks from the AHA).

It was aa good piece, saying mainly that HB ain't what it used to be.
They're making GOOD beer now, and forcint the biggies like COORS to take
notice.  They also interviewed a bewer from coors who was judging.
I don't remember the name.  However, Alex, a quality-control guy at
coors has been very nice to the Unfermentables, and judged at competitions.
He could be considered a "professional pallate".

       aaron

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 10:19:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: RE: Alt Bier Yeast

Roger writes:
> Subject: Re: Will the real Alt yeast please stand up
> 
> The latest, just-arrived issue of ZYMURGY lists Wyeast 1338 as being a
> true Dusseldorf Altbier strain. It lists 1007 as being a Kolsch yeast.
> Several different articles in Zymurgy, by different authors, have said
> the same things. I believe the Zymurgy articles, even though the Wyeast
> folks themselves disagree. (Hence part of the confusion here.) I have
> read elsewhere that the new Wyeast Kolsch yeast (without the starter) is
> a strain newly brought over from Cologne.
> 
> Wyeast 1338 *DOES* leave high residual maltiness. This is how you get a
> good malt profile in a medium-gravity (1048 max) brew. It is necessary to

It is always difficult to determine the real sources of strains as they
move through the yeast industry. It makes it quite hard for the home-
brewer to make intelligent choices.  Several times one of our local 
micros have used the Weihenstephan Alt yeast.  I have also used this
same strain from the local micro.  The yeast *will not* flocculate.  This
subject was brought up to the yeast bank folks at Weihenstephan and 
thier answer was that this is *the* Alt yeast and tough, it wont
flocc.  This apparently is a non issue in Germany where the vast majority
of Alts are filtered beers.  Unfortuneatly, our local "German" micro
no longer has a filter.  So, I ask, do any of these "Alt" yeasts sold
by the yeast suppliers flocc?  If they do, I would be suspect of the
"authenticity" at least in terms of what is used Dusseldorf.

Good brewing,
Jim Busch


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 09:53:43 -0500
From: "Jeff M. Michalski, MD" <michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu>
Subject: Aflatoxin in moldy grain

>Rich (who undoubtedly is paying attention in that Siebel class) writes:
>
>>Mildewed or moldy grain may be growing Aspergillus, which is a source of
>>Alphatoxins.  This substance is a known carcinagen... something I don't
>>think you'll want in your beer.
>
>Someone check me on this, but I believe that not all Aspergillus is nasty.
>I believe that some form of Aspergillus is what is used to make Sake.
>
>You have to be careful with that class, Rich.  You would not be the first
>person I know to come out of it with "Chicken Little Syndrome" (the sky
>is falling!).  One person I know who took that class now smells diacetyl
>in every beer.

Isn't it Al Korz who said that holding a mouthful of brandy in your mouth 
will kill you?

  Aspergillus species are common fungi that are ubiquitous in our 
environment.  Various types can be found on our skin, ears, or in soil.
A. flavus, the species that makes aflatoxin, is a mold found on peanuts,
corn, and *GRAIN*.  

>From Dorland's medical dictionary:
      AFLATOXIN
     "a toxic factor produced by aspergillus flavus...in experimental animals
     it causes liver necrosis, bile duct proliferation, and cirrhosis, and 
     on prolonged administration, leads to hepatocellular carcinoma and 
     cholangiocarcinoma.  It has also been implicated as a cause of human
     hepatic carcinoma."
     
There have been reports of communities in eastern Europe/Russia that have 
been struck with epidemics of liver injury and death after the harvesting
of grain that had been left in field too long that resulted in the 
development of A. flavus infection on the grain.

My advice is never use moldy grain in the fabrication of anything for 
human consumption.  I don't even eat moldy peanuts!

Al, no flame intended, but leave the medical stuff to health professionals
and stick to your area of expertise.
JEFF M. MICHALSKI
michalski_jm at rophys.wustl.edu


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 22:06:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Yeasty beer/Malt liquor

In HOMEBREW Digest #1449 dated Tue 14 June 1994, 
** from David Rodger

>I'm a relatively new brewer, with 4 batches of extract completed, and I'm 
>noticing a strong "yeasty" nose to all the ones that I've tasted so 
>far.

>Questions:
>
>2. Here's my current process, using only a plastic primary fermenter.
>   Day of brewing:
>   ---------------
>   Boil wort
>   Sparge wort thru to plastic fermenter
>   cool wort
>   pitch yeast
>
>   Wait for primary fermentation to complete: (3-5 days?)
>   ------------------------------------------
>   bottle

Why not wait for a few more days before bottling to allow more yeast to
settle?  I ferment one week in a primary and one week in a secondary and
my beers don't have any yeast smell to them.

>And, this is what I think is recommended:
>Day of brewing:
>- ---------------
>Boil wort
>Sparge wort thru to plastic fermenter
>cool wort
>pitch yeast
>siphon from plastic bucket to glass carboy; aeration is ok
>
>Next Day:
>- ---------
>Rack from carboy back to plastic bucket (do not aerate the wort)
>
>Wait for primary fermentation to complete: (3-5 days?)
>- ------------------------------------------
>Rack from plastic bucket to carboy
>let settle out (1-5 days?)

Too much handling, in my opinion.  Why not just do a primary
fermentation the plastic bucket.  After the vigorous fermentation has
subsided, rack the beer to the glass carboy and let it sit in there
for another week or so.  By this method, you will separate the beer
from most of the trub in the primary and allow time for any additional
fermentation to take place and for the yeast to further settle.

** William_L._King asks:

>Here is an easy question that has bothered me: What is the difference between
>malt liquor and beer (ale and lager)?  No, it's not a joke, though some of the
>labels on ML sure are!

Malt liquors have a higher alcohol content than beers.  Apparently some
regulations require that the alcohol content not exceed some level in order
to be called a beer.  Hence the need for the name "malt liquor".

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel                                 pgravel at mcs.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 22:02:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Propane burners/Grain mill shipping

In HOMEBREW Digest #1450 dated Wed 15 June 1994,

** Steve Christiansen asks:

>I would like to increase my brewing capacity to 10 gallon batches
>using a converted keg for a kettle.  Obviously when I do, my electric
>stove won't cut it any more, so I've been looking at propane cookers.
>
>How many BTUs are enough?  I need enough heat to bring 12 gallons of
>150F runnings to boiling by the time the sparge is done, but I don't
>want to burn up mass quantities of gas generating more heat than I need.
>
>I've seen two brands of big cookers in local discount stores, the
>170,000 BTU King Kooker, and a 140,000 BTU cooker from Camp Chef (#SH-140L).
>Any pros or cons about these?

One negative comment I have heard about these kinds of burners is the
lack of adjustment control on the flame.  Either they are on full or if
you try to throttle them, you get a yellow, sooty flame.  Someone (I can't
find the post now), suggests a smaller burner (35-50K K BTU) that has better
flame adjustment.  As a point of reference, the poster said that a typical
burner on a gas range produces about 9-12K BTU.

** Rich Ryan said:

At the risk of adding more fuel to the neverending grain mill debate...

>>Jack said,
>>
>>The "manufacturer" (that's me)  received complete restitution from UPS for 
>> the damage and to imply that it was an "initial" attempt to slough off 
>> production problems on shipping damage is less than unkind.
>
>That's funny, I had a feeling you would say that. At least you staying with
>the same story you told him. I'm glad you've cleared up your production
>problems.

Given Jack's description of the damage to the product, do you **really**
think Jack would knowingly have shipped it that way???!!!  Knowing the
pride that people (Jack and others) have in the products they sell to the
people in this field and their participation in the discussions here, do
you think any of them would ship such an obviously defective product???

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel                                 pgravel at mcs.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 10:47:11 -0500
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Filtration

Jim Busch reports:

>Phil writes:
>> 
>> I have been pretty successful filtering some of my beers using a 
>> cartridge filter. (You know the one which is about 12" high, popularized 
>> by "The Filter Store", also used by home applications like Teledyne).
>> 
>> When I bought it, it came with a 0.5 micron filter. (Great for light 
>> lagers, filters haze, all yeast and even some bacteria). From a local 
>> hardware store I got a 5 micron water filter (sometime used on some 
>> darker beers, gets out any junk, but does not filter chill haze or bacteria).
>> 
>> What I am looking for is a 3 micron filter (recommended by George Fix).
>> Dr. Fix says that it is a good compromise filtering out haze and large 
>> amounts of yeast but not too much body. Does anyone out there know of a 
>> source for a filter of this size? (3 micron) Thanks!!

Jim responds:

>George uses a different kind of filter than a cartridge.  Its pretty
>hard to find a 3 micron cart filter with the required efficiency numbers.
>The Filter Store does sell a 5 micron high efficiency cart filter, its
>about $22 versus $31 for the .5 .  You are quite right, 5 (and 3) microns
>will not remove haze and bacteria, at least completely.  Some haze will
>be reduced, but I suspect if you have a large chill haze problem, 3 is
>not going to resolve this.  It was my understanding that 3/5 is real good 
>for a polished product, free of most (over 95%) of the yeast biomass.  

>The 5's from the HW store are just not that good, the efficiency is too
>low.  It is good for a one shot disposable yeast filter.  A professional
>DE filter is good to around 5-7 microns, and if this is good enough for
>my favorite micros, its good enough for me.

>Lots has been said about the use of large amounts of IM, rehydrated. I
>think this is a good idea along with some aging, and a 5 micron filter.
>(if you want real clear beers).

I completely agree with Jim's conclusions, particularly with the IM/coarse
filter combination for beer clarification. 

Filtration is one of the topics I want to treat in my talk at the AHA 
conference next week. What I will mainly do is show some slides of
various configurations, and to present data showing how beer is affected
(SG, color, protein levels, et al) at various micron sizes.

Conceptually there are two types of filtration. One is what I call a
collinear system where the velocity field of the beer to be filtered
is collinear with the velocity field of the filtered beer. Examples
commonly found in micros include sheet filters using DE (vertical flow),
and plate and frame filters (horizontal flow). An alternative is 
provided by cross flow cartridge filters, where the filtered beer flows
at (roughly) right angles to the beer to be filtered. It is my opinion
that cartridge filtration is the most rational and effective of the two
types. I currently have a graduate student doing computer simulations
of the two types of flow fields (using the two phase incompressible
Navier-Stokes equations), and with every criterion we are using to
evaluate the two flow fields the cartridge/cross flow configuration is
winning hands down.

My own filtration system is built around cartridges I purchased from
Zahm and Nagel. They are not the only firm that sells cartridges for
small scale pilot systems, and indeed I am aware of at least four others.
(I will bring a complete list to Denver). I have three of Z+N's reusable
cartridges. One is made of porcelain and is rated at 3 microns. The other
two are stainless and are rated at 1 and .45 microns, respectively. (The
latter is used only to generate data for presentations, and to convince
clients that they do not want to get involved with submicron filtration!).
The reusable cartridges specifically designed for brewing do cost more than
the ones found in many homebrew outlets. However, when evaluating this
longevity should be taken into account; e.g., I got mine in 1978 and they
have been performing reliably ever since. 

Rodney Morris has informed me that the micron ratings of some the filters sold
in homebrew shops are way off the mark. He found that some ".5 micron" filters
were in fact effectively 7-10 micron filters and conversely. These are not
necessarily inferior products, and indeed he gives most good marks assuming
the actual micron rating is acceptable. The differences apparently come from
termnology different from what is standard in brewing. In any case, I will
give some ideas in my talk at Denver on how we can estimate the actual micron
ratings of our own filters. In addition, I am going to work on Rodney to
do an article for BT or Zymurgy on this subject.

George Fix 


Return to table of contents


Date: 16 Jun 94 08:28:47 -0800
From: keith.prader at wtgw.worldtalk.com
Subject: Alternative to dry hopping ??


Has anyone ever made a hop tea and added it at priming time 
before bottling??  I had a freind suggest this as an alternative
to dry hopping.  They said to steep about 1 oz. of hops in 2 pints
of water for 10 minutes.  By all means do not let it boil.  Let it cool
and add it to your cooled priming solution immediately before 
bottling.  My results were a _VERY_ hopped up beer.  Did I use 
too many hops?  Perhaps the steeping temp was too high ?  
If anybody could  post/send any info on dry hopping and 
alternatives that 
would be great.

Keith Prader
keith at worldtalk.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 08:54:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com>
Subject: Starter Media Again

Gary Kuyat is speculating:

> 
> BTW, did you ever tast Wyest starter culture pack stuff?  It is NASTY!  What
> ever is in there probably isn't hops, but it's not just sugar water!  I'd bet
> it's some kind of bacteria inhibiting agent.  Any comment from Wyeast?
> 

Gary is right, the stuff tastes pretty bad.  But... nyet hops and
inhibition is not the concern.  All that media is autoclaved (twice, as
I recall).  The extra stuff in the media is for enhanced yeast growth.

- --Jeff


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 18:40:59 -0500
From: jmb31 at cornell.edu (Jim Brewster)
Subject: Fw: Fw: Fw: Internet Virus Alert

>Contents:
>Fw: Fw: Fw: Internet Virus Alert ("Charles R. Smith" <crs6 at cornell.edu>)
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 15 Jun 1994 16:48:43 -0400
>From: "Charles R. Smith" <crs6 at cornell.edu>
>Subject: Fw: Fw: Fw: Internet Virus Alert
>
>Cayugabirders:
>
>Take note of the following alert.
>------------------------------
>From: "Stephen DeGloria" <sdd4 at cornell.edu> 
>Wed, 15 Jun 1994 08:21:38 -0400
>To: Multiple recipients of list <cugis-l at cornell.edu>
>Subject: Fw: Fw: Internet Virus Alert
>
>======================================================================
>IMPORTANT!!!
>===============================
>Internet Virus Alert
>
>A Virus has been discovered on Internet that is disguised as CD-ROM
>shareware. Unknown hackers have illegally put the Chinon name on a
>destructive shareware file and released it on the Internet. This
>catastrophic virus is named "CD-IT". -- DO NOT DOWNLOAD. IT WILL
>CORRUPT YOUR HARD DRIVE. The program, allegedly a shareware PC utility
>that will convert an ordinary CD-ROM drive into a CD-Recordable (CD-R)
>device, which is technically impossible, instead destroys critical
>system files on a user's hard drive. The program also immediately
>crashes the CPU, forces the user to reboot and stays in memory.
>          *****  WIDEST DISSEMINATION IS REQUESTED  *****
>[These programs make their way to the local BBS systems in no time, so
>even if you aren't directly on the Internet, keep an eye out for this
>one. -Ed.]
>======================================================================
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Stephen D. DeGloria             SCAS/CfE/CLEARS
>158 Emerson Hall                607 255 6328      voice
>Cornell University              607 255 6143      fax
>Ithaca, NY 14853 USA            sdd4 at cornell.edu  e-mail
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>**********************************************************************
>   Charles R. Smith
>   NY Cooperative Fish and Wildlife Research Unit
>   National Biological Survey, Department of Natural Resources
>   Fernow Hall, Cornell University, Ithaca, NY  14853-3001, USA
>   Voice:  607-255-3219                       FAX:    607-255-1895
>                     Internet:  crs6 at cornell.edu
>*********************************************************************
>
>------------------------------
>End of Digest
>************************
>
>


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 12:55:44 -0500
From: jmb31 at cornell.edu (Jim Brewster)
Subject: cancel article 06161050.1152

cancel article 06161050.1152


Return to table of contents


Date: 16 Jun 94 08:00:57 -0800
From: keith.prader at wtgw.worldtalk.com
Subject: Filters and clarification


In HBD 1449 Phil Brushaber was trying to locate a certain filter for 
his brew filtering.  This has made me curious as to filtering methods and 
filters that the HBD'ers use.  I would like to start a thread on filters 
and the related topics.  I think that there is some  good info out there
for the people like myself who are always looking for a means to get a nice 
clear beer but have minimal knowledge on the subject.

Keith Prader
keith at worldtalk.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 10:00:22 PDT
From: Karl Elvis MacRae <batman at cisco.com>
Subject: What's this fuzzy stuff?


	Well, I've got my first batch in bottles, carbonating happily
	away, and a second batch in the primary.

	So last night, I decided to sample a bottle, to see if all was
	well.

	...And I find that, in addition to the sediment in the bottom,
	there's some weird coating on ths inside of the bottles. Not much;
	it really only is enought to make it look like haze, which is what
	I thought it was until I picked up the one clear-glass bottle I 
	used. No, there's some coating there.

	The beer *tastes* fine; but it's *very* hoppy (It's a basic bitter,
	and a little *too* heavy on the hops), so I can't tell if there
	are any weird flavors hiding under there. But there are none of the 
	usual off flavors I've read about; no skunkiness, no fruityness,
	no cardboard flavor...

	So, does this sound like a contamination? Or is this just part
	of the beer clearing?

	(It's been in bottles for about 1.5 weeks)

		-Karl

- -- 
  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
  Karl Elvis MacRae  Software Engineer  Cisco Systems, Menlo Park, CA, USA
  batman at cisco.com     415-688-8231   DoD#1999    1993 Vulcan Eighty-Eight 
  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
		"Hi, you look different! Are you a puppet?"
					-Barb

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 12:45 EST
From: Jack Skeels <0004310587 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Kingfisher Beer and Mark Garetz's Book

Greetings!

I just saw the post on Mark Garetz's book, and I'd like to chime in with my
first impressions (I've only read it once, and it three times with Miller
before I REALLY understood).

I think that the book is worth the money. I got the book for $14.95 + tax
from my local shop, Brewbuddy's (no affiliation with either, yet....)

In particular I really liked the hop-type reference section.  He has done
some really good work at collating basic information about different hops,
the beers that they are good for, and plausible substitutes.  I plan to use
the book when I visit Brewbuddy's as they ALWAYS seem to be out of the hop
that I need, and I am forced to substitute (sometimes with very poor
results).  Mark's book would have saved me much frustration.

I haven't really delved into his formulas yet, so I won;t comment on them
except to say that he seems to provide ample discussion.  In general, he
writes with a pretty even-handed style, like his do-what-you-like-best
approach to things such as aroma hopping techniques.  The sections on the
history, growing, care and packaging of hops are well-written and
informative.

FWIW, I recommend the book.

**   (thanks Norm!)

Does anyone have an all-grain recipe for Kingfisher?  I don't mean the
bland, worn-out stuff that one usually encounters by the bottle in the US, I
mean the rich yummy version that one finds on tap in better Indian
restaurants in the UK.  Last time I was in London I couldn't get enough. 
Working recipes or just good ideas would be great!  

TIA, and good brewing,

Jack Skeels
JSKEELS at MCIMAIL.COM

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 11:49:01 -0600 (MDT)
From: Robert Pryor <Robert.Pryor at m.cc.utah.edu>
Subject: Australian Pubs

I am heading downunder in August for 3 weeks and would like to know where
to go for good brews. Areas we will be visiting: Sydney, Melbourne,
Hobart, Brisbane, Bundaberg, Cairns.
TIA
Rob Pryor (Robert.Pryor at m.cc.utah.edu)



Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 10:59:52 -0700 (MST)
From: Steven B Gruver <gruver at GAS.uug.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: re:somebody help me dryhop..

I've dry-hopped several times and have found the results favorable.  I 
use the whole flower contained in a piece of cheesecloth.  When the 
fermentation is complete, I simply remove the cheescloth with the spent 
hop flowers and throw it away.  What's nice about dry-hopping is that the 
oils from the hops actually add a layer of protection against oxydation 
during the fermentation process.

Good luck

Steven B.Gruver                                > gruver at gas.uug.arizona.edu<
University of Arizona             - - -   /|     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                              ====|=|=|=== |       Kappa Kappa Psi--Omega 
                                ((| | |)) \|             LIFE MEMBER
                                  - - -   
                       (((<<<---IN STEREO--->>>)))


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 21:48:42 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Ilkka Sysil{ <isysila at clinet.fi>
Subject: Rightful brewing

Concise discourse on rightful brewing. Collected theses PART 1.

Thesis 1

The raw materials of real beer are exclusively malt(s), fresh hops
(not hop extract!), and fresh water. 
Quality malts deserve decent treatment with a roller mill instead
of extermination with some rubbishy flour-making kitchen wonder.

Thesis 2

Brewing yeast is a delicate living organism (unicellular fungi) 
prevailing in hundreds of strains with distinct characteristics
of metabolism having major impact on flavour profile of beer made
with particular strain.
Hence the profound understanding of the basics of yeast metabolism
and general behaviour is indispensable right from the start when
selecting strain that matches to the particular style brewed.
We should not even try to talk about microbiologically inferior
dry yeasts and beer together.

Thesis 3

Brewing beer is a delicate biotechnical (biochemical) process
in which only rightful ingredients (mentioned in Thesis 1) are
used.
The biotechnical/-chemical laws governing the brewing process
must be fully understood. When dealing with electronics one must
distinguish between AC & DC and know the law of Ohm at least, 
otherwise the aftermath is black and bitter smoke. I have seen
astoundingly numerous questions like " What is an enzym, is it
an animal...how about alfa amylase then ????" etc.
Plenty of informative texts on brewing (for the literate) 
have been published since Martin Luther (the medieval German one). 
Books urging decadent and dangerous habits & practices such as 
relaxing and not worrying instead of serious and diligent study 
of the biotechnical principles & laws of brewing process
can not be recommended.

Thesis 4

Malt extracts should not be regarded as raw material of beer at all.
The ingredients of malt extracts are unknown. Malt bill of canned
extract is unknown, quality and amount of adjuncts & additives are
unknown, mashing sequence and thus sugar contents (fermentables vs.
dextrins) is unknown, hops & hopping sequence are unknown; what is
known actually??? Aside from aforementioned, plenty of the flavour
compounds that make beer have been either destroyed or evaporated
by boiling off the water.
Finally the plenty of non-malt-originated sugar used with extracts
in order to boost OG, inevitably leads to a grave disbalance of
fermentables vs. amino-nitrogen. This disbalance always induces
unhealthy fermentation and leads to inferior result that has nothing
to do with beer.
Ridiculously pompous texts like "LAGER", "BITTER" or even "REAL ALE"!!!
printed on extract cans merely desecrate the names reserved to
classify real beer.
Extracts do not make mediocre or lousy beer, they do
not make beer at all. We should realize, that using extracts is
only self-fraud and wasting money. Malt extracts are incontrovertibly
even at their best only malt SURROGATES. Btw quality malt is cheaper
than any rubbishy extract!

END OF COLLECTED THESES PART 1.

Return to table of contents


Date: 16 Jun 94 19:36:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: dryhopping/oak in IPAs/bottle bombs

LARRY writes:
>1) What type of hop should be used when dry hopping? Pellet, Whole, Leaf

There are several schools of thought.  I subscribe to the "dryhop with
whole hops or plugs (compressed whole hops)" school.  My main reason for
not using pellets is because whole hops float (for the most part) and
then you can simply siphon out from under them.  This has worked well for
me.

>2) Do you just drop them into the secondary or primary?

Yes, in the primary (I only use a secondary for fruit beers and lagers),
but only when the fermentation is almost done -- CO2 will scrub out
hop aromatics.

>3) Should the be placed in some type of nylon straining bag for easy
>removal before racking? If answer to the nylon bag is yes, should the bag
>be sanitized with say B-Brite?

I choose to not use a bag for several reasons: sanitation, extraction from
the carboy after use, restricted contact with the beer.  If you do insist
on using a hop bag, boiling water is a better choice for sanitation than
B-Brite.

>4) How long does one keep the hops in the wort?

I recommend 7-14 days for ales.  I don't have any experience dryhopping
at 40F, but I suspect it will take longer.

>5) What's a good hop to use for dry hopping?

Depends on the style.  For English Ales, East Kent Goldings are my first
choice.  Other options for English Ales are Fuggles (a bit rougher) and Styrian
Goldings (related to Fuggles, but actually smell more like East Kent Goldings).
Although Pilseners are not traditionally dryhopped (the hop nose comes from
late kettle additions) I would use Czech Saaz for them.  For American Ales,
you can use just about any pleasant smelling hop (like those mentioned above)
or Cascades, Centennial, Mt. Hood (Hallertauer-like), Liberty (another
Hallertauer relative), Tettnanger (actually a cousin of Saaz, but a distant
one).  I've read that some people are using Nugget as an aroma hop.  There
is no reason you could not dryhop with Clusters or Eroica, but you might
not like the result -- the aroma will be quite "rough."  John Isenhour
brewed up an interesting beer all with Pride of Ringwood -- even dryhopped!
It smelled and tasted like wood or the bark of a tree.  Interesting.

>6) How many ounces of hops should I use on the average?

Generally speaking, I use about 1 ounce in a 5 gallon batch, but sometimes,
when in a hurry or just feeling heavy-handed, I've put as much as 3 ounces
in.

***********
Marc writes:
>I'm brewing an IPA, (straight out of Papazian's book), and something 
>strange seems to be going on in there.  My brew has spent about 1 1/2
>week in the secondary now, and there is a very thin layer of *something*
>floating about 2/3 of the way up in the carboy.  The stuff is very light

>This is the first time I use "Oak Chips" in the secondary.  Has anyone
>noticed "unusual" suspended goodies in their brew with this technique?

Sorry, I have no idea what that "something" is, but would like to comment
on the use of oak chips in IPAs.  They don't fit the style.  The casks
in which IPAs were shipped, were made of European Oak (which imparts little
or no flavor to beer) and they were pitch-lined, so there was very little
if any contact of beer with oak.  Oak flavor IS appropriate when trying
to duplicate some Lambics and, of course, Rodenbach (which are fermented
in un-lined oak casks and tuns), but not IPAs.

********
Allen writes that he's got some exploding bottles.

I suggest trying to releave the pressure (slowly, carefully) and then
recapping.  The overcarbonation may be due to infection (which may or
may not make the beer taste bad) or it may be that you overprimed or
maybe just that you bottled it before the beer had finished fermenting.

Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 13:16:50 -0700
From: fischer <kfischer at ucssun1.sdsu.edu>
Subject: Disinfectant

Howdy

I was wondering if anyone has used Amphyl for washing their beer
bottles?  I was thinking about using it.  It is primarily used
as a microbial disinfectant.  But I was thinking that maybe some
residual Amphyl might kill the yeast in the bottle.  It's primary
ingrediant is o-phenylphenol.  Anyone have any comments?  Seems
to me as though it couldn't be any worse than bleach.

Thanks,
Keith
kfischer at ucssun1.sdsu.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 15 Jun 94 15:28:17 EDT
From: Btalk at aol.com
Subject: king kookers

Steve Christiansen asks about this.

I 've had a 170,000 btu King Kooker for about 6 months. My particular model
has  a pot support ring that is the same diameter as the Molson 1/4 keg I use
for a pot. Seemed a little hairy at first, but it stays put w/ no trouble. I
thought about welding tabs onto the ring to prevent the keg from slipping,
then thought of using a few hose clamps oriented so the screw part would stop
keg slippage.
I can't say enough about this set up. It is nice to brew outdoors (even in
winter) plus it promotes household harmony ;)
Propane mileage is about 4-5 batches per 20 lb tank . I've just started
mashing , and it is a real advantage to be able to have mass quantities of
hot water ready. I also have done some 1.5 hour boils.
The flame is fully adjustable.
Go for it.
Regards,
Bob Talkiewicz<btalk at aol.com>


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 94 17:55:08 EDT
From: dgbe048 at ascs.aro.allied.com (e048???? - Dan Bethke)
Subject: Good Baltimore Microbrew Pub

This message is for any homebrew fanatic visiting or living in the Baltimore,
Maryland area. You just have to try Racer`s Cafe!  They have 15 different
microbrews on draft all the time.  They rotate to different microbrews all the
time.  I don't know how they do it, but they only charge about $1.75 for every
one of them. Even better is happy hour with 3 brews for $3 (3-7 every day).
I have had many tasty brews there from wheats to seasonals.  

No, I don't own the place, this just sounds like an advertisement. They are at:

7732 Harford Rd., Parkville MD (5 minutes inside the Baltimore beltway)

 

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 19:28:31 -0500 (CDT)
From: khaycook at unicomp.net (Ken Haycook)
Subject: 1st Annual State Fair of TEXAS H






















 
> ANNOUNCING The very first State Fair of TEXAS Homebrew competition.
> 
> Finally after several years of trying and a change in the state ABC
> laws we in Texas are going to have a competition. Unfortunatly it is 
> for Texas Residents only. It is an AHA sanctioned competition so 
> judging points will count. We will offer categories for all AHA styles.
> Each first will get a State Fair Ribbon as well as a neat Stein. If 
> you are interested, contact me at the address or phone below:
> 
> Ken Haycook
> 4751 Hovenkamp
> Dallas, TX. 75227
> 214-381-3770
> 
> Regards, 
> Ken
> 
> 


Return to table of contents


Date: 16 Jun 94 21:26:37 EDT
From: "JAMES W. KEESLER" <74021.376 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Brass vs. Plastic Valves

I have various vessels that have 1" holes in them for those plastic 
valves that all the brew supply stores have for racking and bottling.  
And while I have kept hot water and wort away from them, they still 
leak.  Does anyone know if a brass/copper equivalent exists or could 
anyone describe a set up using compression fittings, etc. that 
accomplishes the same thing.  I haven't had much luck in the hardware 
stores and I figured the bandwidth here, with its accumulated 
knowledge, might be able to set me on the right path.  TIA

Regards,

Jim


Return to table of contents


Date: 16 Jun 94 21:44:34 EDT
From: Richard Nantel <72704.3003 at CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Montreal Beer Fest

I posted a message a couple of weeks ago informing readers of the Montreal
International Beer festival. I attended this event tonight (Thursday, 16 June)
and must tell you that it was very disappointing. 

They had announced that more than 150 beers from all over the world would be
featured. The true breakdown is as follows: of 15 booths, eight feature Quebec
Microbreweries, one Ontario microbrewery, two feature Molsons and Labatt
products that you can pick up at any corner store in Canada, the remaining four
feature popular, easily purchased beers from Japan (Sapporo and Geikkekan),
British Isles (Guinness, Bass, Smithwicks, Double Diamond, Newcastle, McEwan's,
etc), and Belgium. 

The Belgium display seemed promising advertising 25 beers. Unfortunately, the
beers they offered that were well-rated in Jackson's Pocket Guide to Beer were
sold out (on the first night!) They may have more Chimays tomorrow, they said.

On top of everything else, they've set up a music stage featuring a hard rock
band a few feet from the booths -- forget about a quiet evening sipping a
Trappist ale. On the bright side, I picked up a real Guinness Draught glass for
five bucks.

My apologies if anyone attended based on my earlier post. If you did, I hope the
excellent Quebec microbrewery products made your trip worth the effort.

Richard Nantel
Montreal  


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 22:59:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Andrew C. Winner" <acwinner at wam.umd.edu>
Subject: Floaters Solved by Cold and Drinking

Just a quick message.  Thanks to all those who took time out from 
the debating mills to offer thoughts and solutions to the strange 
floating white granuals in my secondary.  I bottled and noticed smaller 
particles of the same stuff in the bottles.  After 3 weeks in bottles, I 
tried a suggestion from several brewers -- refrigeration.  It worked!  
Whatever the stuff was settled within 2 days and the product was a very 
fine (IMHO) bitters.  Two cases were happily consumed by old friends at a 
college reunion in upstate NY the other week.  Definately not an 
infection -- no off tastes at all.  Must have been some sort of hops 
debris (first time using whole hops vice pellets).

Thanks again,

Drew (acwinner at wam.umd.edu)

Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 16 Jun 1994 22:14:37 -0700 (MST)
From: "Steven W. Smith" <SMITH_S at gc.maricopa.edu>
Subject: A dry hopped beer with really nice legs

  Zounds! another home-made, lo-tech brew gadget to make dry hopping easier:
put pantyhose in your beer :-O
  Briefly (I'm trying!);  cut one leg off of the pantyhose, rinse it, put it 
in a coffee cup full of water and boil in the microwave for a couple of 
minutes.  Insert the (orange) tip of your racking cane into the toe and stretch 
the nylon up the length of the cane.  My cane has a semi-conical-plastic- 
thingy TM that clamps onto the tubing to hold it securely in the neck of the 
carboy - I pulled the nylon up over it and fixed it in place with a wire 
twist tie*.
  I did get an unusual amount of foaming initially (CO2 bubbles in the siphon 
tube) but it subsided quite a bit when I stretched the hose/filter tighter.  A 
good length would probably be from the toe to knee height.
  In the grand tradition of the HBD I tried valiantly to create an ASCII 
graphic of it - 'fraid you'll have to use your imaginations for this one.  
The major advantage of this method over the choreboy (IMHO) is that the entire
submerged length of the racking cane becomes the filter surface so it doesn't 
clog.  The tip on the cane is necessary, as it draws liquid "from above" 
rather than directly up the end of the tube.
  In case y'all couldn't tell, I'm quite pleased with this innovation and plan 
to make it S.O.P.  My S.O. provides an abundant supply of slightly used filter
media.
  I think this may be the definitive way to get those pesky strawberry 
particles outta my mead too. :-D  I like to ruthlessly smash fruit before 
adding it to any fermentable.  You'd have to add spiders later in the process...

* An alternative method might be to stuff the pantyhose through the neck of the 
carboy, securing it around the top with a rubber band and then inserting the 
racking cane.  
  _,_/|
  \o.O;   Steven W. Smith, Programmer/Analyst
 =(___)=  Glendale Community College, Glendale Az. USA
    U     smith_s at gc.maricopa.edu
          "Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things" Dan Quayle

Return to table of contents

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1453, 06/18/94