HOMEBREW Digest #1454 Mon 20 June 1994

Digest #1453 Digest #1455

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  3 micron filter (Pbr322)
  Mash and specialty grains/beerball conversions (Montgomery_John)
  Alphatoxins [sic] (Art Steinmetz)
  Re: Keg Kettles / Two Stage Process / Partial Mashing (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Ginger Beer Experiment (Tim Anderson)
  Re: Shame (Randy M. Davis)
  scales/keg carbonation (Jeff Benjamin)
  Re:Dry Hop Help ("Moore, Brian")
  Re: Plastic Carboys (Dave Coombs)
  Brewpub Reviews and PUBLIST (Andrew Patrick)
  Strange Brew ("McCaw, Mike")
  Wha to use for priming? ( LARRY KELLY)
  Zymurgy error (j.conklin5)
  Lambic & Judgenet ("Loren C. Pigniolo")
  Re: propane cookers (Steve Christiansen)
  SPEED SPARGE(tm) & YEASTY FLAVOR (Timothy Sixberry)
  Formula Generation from Tables (Gary S. Kuyat)
  Help!! Frozen Keg!! (RONALD MOUCKA)
  retraction (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
  plastic fermenters (Rob Skinner)
  Beer keg "crimes" (Louis K. Bonham)
  Electric Stoves (Steven B Gruver)
  Arizona homebrewers wanted (Steven B Gruver)
  INBOX Message (See Below) (Mailer.MC1)
  yet another COUNTERFLOW CHILLER (John Glaser)
  Cylindro-conical fermenters (BradWoods)
  Clear Beer/Self-Righteous Brewing (Patrick Weix)
  mead yeast (Rob Skinner)
  Wort cooling (Phil Miller)
  mail order (HERVON)
  cleaning copper (Aaron Birenboim)
  Back issues of Zymergy (Steven B Gruver)
  Ilkka Sysil's sermon on the mount (Eric Miller)

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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 01:14:53 EDT From: Pbr322 at aol.com Subject: 3 micron filter I'm not advanced enough in my homebrewing to know where you would find a 3 micron filter specifically for homebrewing. However, I routinely use sub-micron filters in my laboratory, in the range of 0.45 to 0.22 microns. These filters are widely used in biotechnology and cell culture laboratories for sterilization -- they remove just about everything except viruses. As a matter of fact, I've used them to isolate yeast from beer. There are also a plethora of membrane filters available in larger pore sizes (under 10 um) for removing solid material from liquids, and there are some high volume systems available which utilize cartridge filteration with large pore size prefilters, carbon filters, and small pore size membrane filters. The problem is, the disposable filters which are available at reasonable prices are meant to filter a liter or two at most -- not the 25 liters your average homebrew recipe makes. In addition, the larger, high volume systems are very expensive and usually require positive pessure C02 systems to operate. If you are interested in exploring these options, contact SIGMA Chemical Co. in St. Louis MO, or Fisher Scientific (nation-wide). Most of the large biomedical supply houses carry a full line of membrane filtration and cartridge filtration equipment. If you are going to filter on a large scale, it might be worth exploring. On a less expensive note -- I've been thinking about how to jury rig an effective, inexpensive filtration system that would use an aspirator hooked up to a faucet (negative pressure or vacuum filtration) with activated charcoal and a membrane filter. It would consist of a closed, sterile funnel with a screen holding the membrane, on top of which would be the activated charcoal. Plastic hose would bring beer into the filter, a side arm coming off of the funnel would connect to a cheap plastic aspirator hooked up to my sink, and the filtered beer would come out of the neck of the funnel through another length of hose. The charcoal and filter would be disposed of after each run. If I actually get around to building it and testing it, I'll let you know... Cheers. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 09:41:28 -0400 (EDT) From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/ at mr.rtpnc.epa.gov Subject: environmentalists Ulick Stafford writes: >-"so called environmentalists and their disinformation really get my goat- over 99% of so-called carcinogens in surface waters are naturally occurring." So-called chemists putting out disinformation really get my goat also, which prevents me from making bock beer! I would like to see his references that 99% of carcinogens in surface waters are naturally occurring! First of all what is a "so-called" carcinogen? Secondly, most carcinogens that occur in surface waters are the result of chlorination by-products of organics that are in the water. Does that make them naturally occurring? I would agree with Ulick that most of the carcinogens are not the result of industrial pollution. Andy Kligerman Genetic Toxicologist Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 08:57:00 CST From: Montgomery_John at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil Subject: Mash and specialty grains/beerball conversions All this talk about zoological zymurgy got me thinking about making a REAL skunk beer... ;) On to my questions: 1) What is the collective wisdom on specialty grains and mashing? Is there any point in adding these during the mash or should they be held out for steeping during the pre-boil of the wort? I know some folks begin warming their wort as it comes off the sparge so you'd probably want to go ahead and include them in the mash...? I collect in the kitchen, then move outside to the flame thrower. Thoughts? Comments? 2) A friend of mine recently polished off one of those beerball things and asked if I had any use for the ball. I seemed to recall seeing ad's for converting these to homebrewing kegs, but can't locate a single one! Has anyone used (still using?) these for homebrew kegging? Can someone point me in the right direction? Digest responses are fine if deemed common interest, but please direct flames to private email. TIA. jbm montgomery_john at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 10:01:01 -0400 From: Art Steinmetz <asteinm at pipeline.com> Subject: Alphatoxins [sic] >Rich (who undoubtedly is paying attention in that Siebel class) writes: >>Mildewed ro moldy grain may be growing Aspergillus, which is a source of >>Alphatoxins. Well, not too close attention. It's aflatoxins, not alphatoxins. That tripped me up too. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 07:32:27 PDT From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck) Subject: Re: Keg Kettles / Two Stage Process / Partial Mashing >>>>> "Norm" == npyle <npyle at n33.ecae.stortek.com> writes: Norm> Charles Jackson writes: >> My next newbie question: I have obtained a propane burner and am looking >> for a cheap kettle to allow me to boil the entire volume of my lowly extract >> wort. Norm> In answer to your question, you can get a keg with the top Norm> already cut off for you from somebody (BCI?, someone help me out Norm> here) for right around $40. BCI Industries, Inc. 6400 Highway 51 South Brighton, TN 38011 901 476-8000 800-284-9410 You can also get a boiler with top cut out and nipple welded in with ball valve from SABCO for just under $100. SABCO 419-531-5347 Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen at megatek.com Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 08:29:33 PDT From: tima at wv.MENTORG.COM (Tim Anderson) Subject: Ginger Beer Experiment I made a 5 gallon batch of fairly light ale and split it into 3 equal parts in 2 gallon ice cream buckets after pitching. I then added fresh ginger juice to one of the buckets. After a week of fermentation I added the same amount of ginger juice to one of the others. The third bucket got ginger juice at bottling time. It's been in the bottle for about 2 months now. Results: The first (ginger in the primary) has pleasant but mild ginger character. The second ("secondary") is noticeably more gingery. The third (bottle time ginger) is wonderful, but with a small problem noted below. Its ginger flavor is sharp, it burns all the way down. I assume it would cure worms. Method of extracting ginger juice: I used a tool created for just this purpose. It looks a lot like a nut grater, with many rows of sharp little teeth. You just grate away, and the ginger root is transformed into a pile of juicy pulp. Squeeze the pulp and out flows the juice. I used somewhere around 10 oz ginger root for each sub-batch. What I held constant was the juice volume, which was 3/4 cup. Small problem: In very few minutes of sitting, a very fine, very white sediment settled to the bottom of the juice. Without thinking much about it I dumped it in with the juice. Since I had done it in the first bucket, I had to do the same in the other two. The problem is that in the bottle-gingered batch there is white sediment in each bottle which kicks up easily when pouring. My next ginger beer will have a cup of ginger juice, decanted off the sediment, added at bottling time. You may do whatever you like. tim Disclaimer: I like a lot more ginger than normal humans do. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 9:53:23 MDT From: Randy M. Davis <rmdavis at mocan.mobil.com> Subject: Re: Shame I havn't been around this digest very long but I have picked up a few valuable pieces of information for myself and tried to answer some of the questions posed by others. For the most part I find the atmosphere friendly and entertaining but I must admit that it really bothers me (and I hope others) that the simple act of misdirecting a cancellation request would invite the type of personal attack directed at Steven Boxer the other day. So what if he wasted a half a dozen lines of digest space! It was an honest mistake. I have seen a lot more space intentionally wasted by pointless argument and plain crap but I get over it and find there is a reason to continue reading since there is good material too. Was not every subscriber to this and every other digest new to the net at one time? Was not every homebrewer new to the hobby at one time? Let's treat people with a little more courtesy and exercise some patience! Does an addressing oversight make a person a "fool", I don't think so. I noticed another unwary soul sent a request to the wrong address in todays digest. I for one hope that it does not result in the same inexcusable treatment that Mr. Boxer received. - -- +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Randy M. Davis: Mobil Oil Canada Calgary, Alberta Canada | | rmdavis at mocan.mobil.com | | Phone (403) 260-4184 Fax (403) 260-7348 | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 10:02:19 MDT From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com> Subject: scales/keg carbonation > Is there anything clever that people do [to measure grain] short of > buying a scale? Um, use a scale? If you're serious enough to buy a 50lb bag of grain for $30+, surely you can spend ~$15 for a kitchen scale. I mean, you'll have to spend the money on a grain mill, right? Oh, you use a friend's mill? Well, I suppose you could use their scale, too :-). Grain probably varies in weight from type to type, even year to year slightly. You'll probably get much more accurate recipe formulation if you weigh. You can get a perfectly usable scale that goes up to about 10 lbs for pretty cheap. I have a Soenhle (sp?) with a widely adjustable tare. I remove the basket it came with and put a giant mixing bowl in its place, then adjust the tare to 0 again. This way I can measure over 7 lbs of grain at a time. And now for some questions of my own. I just invested in a kegging setup (no more bottle washing! no more bottle washing!), and tried my first force-carbonated beer last night. I chilled to 36F, put about 10 PSI on the keg, and started shaking (peptide destruction notwithstanding :-). After 15 minutes or so, you could still hear gas slowly feeding into the keg, but I stopped to see how it was doing. The beer was already slightly carbonated, about the level of an English ale, and the head had very very fine bubbles and rejuvenated nicely. In fact, it was the creamiest head I've had on a beer in a long time. It was so tasty I just started drinking it right then. But a couple of questions: 1. How long does it typically take to fully carbonate a keg by the shaking method (i.e., how long until the CO2 stops flowing)? This is for an American ale, say 2.5 volumes CO2. 2. What differences would you expect to see in head character between bottle-conditioned and force-carbonated kegged beer? Bubble size? Retention? Or is the difference just in the dispensing method (cobra tap vs bottle pour)? - -- Jeff Benjamin benji at fc.hp.com Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado "Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium." - T.S. Eliot Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 10:51:00 PDT From: "Moore, Brian" <Moorebw at hvsmtp1.mdc.com> Subject: Re:Dry Hop Help Hello all, In HBD #1451, Larry Kelly asked a few questions about dry-hopping. As this is a favorite technique of mine (mmmmmm- tasty!) I'll give some answers from my experience (please note I do not claim to be an expert nor do I play one on TV). >1) What type of hop should be used when dry hopping? Pellet, Whole, Leaf, >Plugs? I prefer whole leaf or plug (basically just compressed whole leaf hops). The loose whole leaf hops are the easiest to use. Just drop them into the secondary about 5-7 days before bottling. The hops will stay in the top 2-3 inches of beer, so when you rack to your bottling bucket, just siphon out under the hops but above the trub. If you suck a couple leaves up, don't worry about it! Plugs are OK but you have to cut them in half to stuff them into the carboy. After a day or two they expand and very closely resemble loose whole leaf hops (imagine!). I have found dry-hopping with pellets to be a pain. They don't clear very well. >2) Do you just drop them into the secondary or primary? Secondary >3) Should the be placed in some type of nylon straining bag for easy >removal before racking? If answer to the nylon bag is yes, should the bag >be sanitized with say B-Brite? You could. I don't. Too much effort. >4) How long does one keep the hops in the wort? Depends on how much aroma you want. >5) What's a good hop to use for dry hopping? >6) How many ounces of hops should I use on the average? Depends. I make a tasty Liberty Ale clone which I dry hop with 2 ounces of Cascade for 5 gallons. Talk about aroma! Ever been slapped in the face by Cascades? Feels good! Hope this helps. One thing I have noticed is that all of the beers I dry hop tend to be brilliantly clear but also finish at a lower gravity than I would have expected. Any ideas? Brian Moore moorebw at hvsmtp1.mdc.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 12:18:24 -0400 From: Dave Coombs <coombs at cme.nist.gov> Subject: Re: Plastic Carboys Rather than answer your question directly, I'll note that a 5Gal carboy fits nicely inside a 5Gal "bakery" pail. Unfortunately the bail does not fit over the top. Now I just have to get several more pails... dave Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 12:15:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Andrew Patrick <andnator at mcs.com> Subject: Brewpub Reviews and PUBLIST I'm the guy that started all the ruckus about Brewpub Reviews and the Publist a few months back. Well guess what? The Publist STILL has not been updated since last November, and there STILL is no e-mail address listed in it telling us where to send our updates. In the meantime, I have toured numerous new and wonderful micros and brewpubs in the Midwest, Southwest, East, and even in Ontario. Most of these places are TOO NEW to be listed in a document that is now well over 6 months old. I'd list them here, but I would just get flamed mercilessly for "waste-of- bandwidth". Send me private e-mail, and I will send you the listings I have for your region of interest. If you like, I might even add a REVIEW or two (GASP!) *--------------*---------------------------------*--------------* |Sysop | Andrew Patrick | Founder| |Home Brew Univ| AHA Certified Beer Judge |Home Brew Univ| |Midwest BBS | SW Brewing News Correspondent | Southwest BBS| |(708)705-7263 | Internet: andnator at mcs.com | (713)923-6418| *--------------*---------------------------------*--------------* Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 11:03:00 PDT From: "McCaw, Mike" <mccaw at wdni.com> Subject: Strange Brew OKOK, I give up. I am completely mystified by my latest batch; hopefully someone can shed some light. I started out to make my standard pale ale (16# Klagges, 3# Munich, 1# 40o Crystal, 1# CaraPils, 1/2# Flaked Barley for 10 gallons), which I have made eight times before. What did I do differently this time? Slightly thinner mash, and a mashout to 175. THE EXTRACT WAS BRIGHT! (shout off) Yes, crystal clear. I did a 90 minute boil, 2oz Nugget at 30 min, 2 0z Wilamette at 60 min, 1.5 oz Wilamette at 85 minutes with a 15 minute steep/settle (normal for this beer). I forgot the Irish Moss (but I have forgotten it before with minimal difference in the final product). The wort coming out of the boiler was a little hazy (which I have never seen before), and out of the wort chiller was very hazy (normal looking). THE TRUB NEVER SETTLED! Normally, I would expect a massive drop-out of junk in about 30 minutes, but these carboys just remain opaque, even after two weeks! I'm using Wyeast 1963, and the yeast is flocking out nicely, but the beer is still opaque. I poured a little off last night to taste test, and the beer is massively (and "sharply" bitter, much more so than the hops should account for), and has another taste I cannot put words to. Microscopically, I don't see significant bacteria, and I do not suspect an infection. Clearly, the batch is a goner. Can anyone diagnose this? Shouldn't a starch haze from an over-enthusiastic mash-out have been visible in the extract before boiling? HELLLLLP, PLEASE! Mike Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 14:12:30 EDT From: KMYH09A at prodigy.com ( LARRY KELLY) Subject: Wha to use for priming? I have read numerous books on brewing and numerous messages on HBD, I have read where some people prefer to prime their bottles with unfermented (sweet) wort and some use corn sugar, and some use DME. Why is one method better than another? And which is best to use? Thanx Larry KMYH09A at prodigy.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 18:13:00 UTC From: j.conklin5 at genie.geis.com Subject: Zymurgy error I've noticed a recent thread regarding yeast characteristics, and the chart in the summer issue of Zymurgy. If you look closely at the "notes" column in the lager yeast section you will notice they have their wires crossed. They describe wyeast 2042 " danish lager yeast" as "warm fermenting bottom cropping strain ferments well to 62 degrees f while keeping lager characteristics". I suspect this description was for the next yeast on the list wyeast 2112 california lager yeast (which they have described "optimum fermentation temperature:48 degrees f. Weihenstephan 34/70) ???????????? The chart seems to be screwed up from there on. This could be very confusing to a beginner or someone using their first liquid yeast. Could mistakes like these become more commonplace as more and more non-brewers take over the publication of the magazine?? On another note ; does anyone know a source for flaked rice ? All I can seem to find is rice syrup or rice extract. E mail reply fine. Thanks in advance J.C. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 13:24:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Loren C. Pigniolo" <lorenp at netcom.com> Subject: Lambic & Judgenet Here is the information on the Lambic Digest. I am posting this along with the info on Judgenet because of interest at the last San Andreas Malts meeting (you know who you are). Have fun! Send article submissions only to: lambic at longs.lance.colostate.edu Send all other administrative requests (subscribe/unsubscribe/change) to: lambic-request@ longs.lance.colostate.edu Back issues are available by mail; send empty message with subject 'HELP' to: netlib at longs.lance.colostate.edu A FAQ is also available by netlib; say 'send faq from lambic' as the subject or body of your message (to netlib at longs.lance.colostate.edu). THE BEER JUDGE DIGEST Chuck Cox <chuck at synchro.com>, publisher Michael Hall <hall at lanl.gov>, archive administrator digest submissions to judge at synchro.com administrative requests to judge-request@ synchro.com send rank updates to the administrative address messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored send rank updates to the administrative address messages sent to the wrong address will be ignored FTP archive information in /pub/judge/README on cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov Published by SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage & Brewery Yours, Loren C. Pigniolo | voice/fax: 415/665-1827 Photographic Preservation Specialist | voice: 800/484-9808 x7841 Photographic Preservation Services | i/net: lorenp at netcom.com 1044 Judah Street #1 San Francisco, CA 94122-2052 | Please call before faxing Documents on photographic preservation and a list of our services are available via anonymous ftp to ftp.netcom.com in the directory pub/PPS-info Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 13:54:16 -0700 From: Steve Christiansen <steven at sequent.com> Subject: Re: propane cookers Thanks to all who replied to my request for info about propane cookers. I am currently leaning towards a 135k BTU Kamp Kooker, but before I decide for sure, I'm taking the advice of one responder who suggested I call Metal Fusion (1-800-783-3885) and ask them to send me a catalog. They have several models of cookers -- different sizes, BTU ratings, single/double burner, etc. I should be able to find just what I need. Thanks again. Steven Christiansen Beaverton, OR steven at sequent.com Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 14:19:00 PDT From: Timothy Sixberry <tsixber at msrapid.kla.com> Subject: SPEED SPARGE(tm) & YEASTY FLAVOR Hi All Well I'm an all grain brewer with 18 batches under (or should I say hanging over) my belt. Most of them turned out quite well, but now I have some questions for the many experts on the HBD. The first thing I would like to know is why do other brewers take so much time to sparge? I've heard times like one and a half to two hours for spargeing. My sparge only takes about 15 to 20 min with five gallons. I get really good extration rates too. So Whats up with the 1&2 hour sparges. Its no wonder there is so much talk of heat loss during sparge if it goes that slow. By the way, I use a homemade Easymasher (tm) with 168 deg mashout and 170 deg sparge water. My next question has to do with that yeasty flavor that the beer can pick up from sitting in the primary to long. My last batch may have suffered this fate. There is no sign of infection, ie. ring around the coller, but it still don't taste so good. Tastes kind of yeasty. No, it tastes really yeasty. Now I know that the beer sould be transfered off the old dead yeast within 5 to 7 days. But what if the ferment is still going at 12 to 14 days? Thats what happened on my latest batch ( a cream ale with 1lb rice etract). Could the rice extract have caused the ferment to go on longer? I hear other brewers talk of transfering after only 4 or 5 days in the primary. I have never had a batch that finished that quick. I usually transfer to the secondary when the airlock bubles once or twice a minute. Should I rack it after 5 or 6 days no mater what its doing? That dosn't sould right to me, but I sure don't want any more yeasty beer. So, what do you think brew masters? PS. I really liked the post on Zoological Zymurgy, and I'll be starting my own "Green Grasshopper Ale" very soon. Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 18:48:33 EDT From: Gary S. Kuyat <gsk at sagan.bellcore.com> Subject: Formula Generation from Tables Full-Name: Gary S. Kuyat This isn't stricly beer, but I have seen formulas posted for such things as Ragers table of utilization, pressure and temp to give volume of CO2 dissolved, etc. How do these folks generate these formulas? Is there a program available? Would they convert a table for me? I have tried to use excel to manually do this, but after several hours, I have a so-so match! This is just too much work! I need the formulas 'cause my calculator won't do table lookup. - -- -Gary Kuyat gsk at sagan.bellcore.com (908)699-8422 Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 15:56:12 GMT From: rmoucka at OMN.COM (RONALD MOUCKA) Subject: Help!! Frozen Keg!! HELP!! My refrigerator thermostat seems to have spazed yesterday and frozen an entire corny keg of German Lager. There doesn't seem to be any damage to the keg itself, and I have hopefully fixed the thermostat problem and it is now slowly thawing. The batch was filtered and force carbonated a couple of weeks ago. Any suggestions? Please hurry, the beer was intended for a family reunion in a week and a half. I've already changed the name of the beer to Reunion Ice beer. Anything else I should do? TIA Ron Moucka rmoucka at omn.com This message created on OMN BBS (303) 667-1149 data Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 18:08:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: retraction >From: ulick at ulix.rad.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) >Subject: water >Jeremy Bergsman comments on a water analysis, but made one or two comments I >must question. The extremely soft water was obviously a surface water, >possibly from a fast running stream. This can be told by its softness, >high silica level - sand being washed, and its high organic level. >a> T ALK CAC03 16.0 MG/L >> PHOS-TOTAL .03 MG/L >> C TOT ORGAN 1.2 MG/L >jb>This sounds bad to me. Usually organics in water supplies are the >jb>result of industrial pollution. >Yes, it is bad but it is not the result of industrial pollution. Jeremy's >statement is ridiculous. Usually organics in the water supply are the >result of biological activity, i.e. algae photosynthesiziing and excreting >or decaying. The organic matter makes treatment tricky and usually >requires more chlorine than an organic free ground water. It can also >react with chlorine to form not very nice compounds. For such water I >recommend activated charcoal filtration to remove the organics and chlorine. >(While on the subject - so called environmentalists and their disinformation >really get my goat - over 99% of so-called carcinogens in surface waters >are naturally occurring). I am perfectly willing to retract my statement about the organics. I said this based on my city's water report which lists concentrations of various organic molecules and then a total of all organics, like the number above. I am no expert in water pollution but I do have a degree in biochemistry and cell biology and it looked to me like the organics that were being tested for were "industrial" rather than "natural" but I could be wrong or my analysis could be unusual. I definitely should not have said "Usually." Thanks for picking up my slack, Ulick. Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 94 20:05:00 -0800 From: rob.skinner at kandy.com (Rob Skinner) Subject: plastic fermenters >using a glass carboy, but when a mishap caused me to smash a tile in >our kitchen, I was banished to the garage and decided to switch to the >plastic type. I have often heard that plastic retains beer spoiling >'nasties' much more so than glass, so I was wondering if I am asking I use both glass and plastic, but prefer the convenience of the plasic. You can reduce the risk of infection by retiring your old fermenters early. I get all my grain from Brewers Resource, who ship their grain in five gallon buckets. I take the empties and drill holes for the fermentation lock and spigot. It's cheaper than buying new fermenters, and the buckets seal MUCH better than my old plastic tubs. ___ * MR/2 2.03 NR * Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 23:30:56 From: lkbonham at beerlaw.win.net (Louis K. Bonham) Subject: Beer keg "crimes" In a letter published in the May/June issue of *Brewing Techniques*, the President of Sierra Nevada recently opined that it was a crime (specifically, theft and/or receipt of stolen property) for homebrewers to use a brewery's keg (i.e., to buy a keg of beer, not return the empty keg and forfeit your deposit, and then convert the keg to a boiler or what have you). I have heard Jim Sulier of SABCO make similar statements. While I can certainly understand the economic arguments made by these individuals, from a legal standpoint (and I am an attorney), I have serious doubts as to their accuracy, at the very least under Texas law. I find nothing in either the Texas Penal Code or the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Code that would make this a crime, or would limit the apparent authority a distributor or retailer to pass legal title to a keg to a purchaser; indeed, I can think of several doctrines that a person can acquire legal title (a/k/a ownership) of a keg *regardless* of what's written on the keg or what the brewery may want or have in its contracts with its distributors. However, I'm quite ready to be proven wrong. Anybody out there have any straight dope on this? How about a reference to a statute or applicable regulation? (I already know about the labeling / mismarking laws, and they don't affect the issue of who "owns" the container -- they only regulate what can be sold *in* them.) Or is this, as it appears, just so much hype? I'm not saying that everybody should run out and decapitate kegs right away. However, I have a knee-jerk reaction to assertions that "x is a crime" without citation, especially when such run counter to traditional common law concepts of personal property. Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 00:21:04 -0700 (MST) From: Steven B Gruver <gruver at GAS.uug.Arizona.EDU> Subject: Electric Stoves Hello all, as this is just my *Second Post* to this listserv. Already, I am very impressed with the level and quality of information found on this listserv!! I am limited to using an electric stove when I'm mashing, and do not have the privilege of a gas burner. My question is this: Of you who use an electric burner--do you have any special tricks in keeping the temperature consistent when mashing. I have had a problem keeping the temperature steady, thus causing a serious fluxuation of variances in the temperature. Steven B.Gruver > gruver at gas.uug.arizona.edu< University of Arizona - - - /| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ====|=|=|=== | Kappa Kappa Psi--Omega ((| | |)) \| LIFE MEMBER - - - (((<<<---IN STEREO--->>>))) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 00:24:37 -0700 (MST) From: Steven B Gruver <gruver at GAS.uug.Arizona.EDU> Subject: Arizona homebrewers wanted I am interested in finding out if any Arizona Homebrewers belong to this listserv. Please e-mail me with your e-mail address. Thanks in advance!! Steven B.Gruver > gruver at gas.uug.arizona.edu< University of Arizona - - - /| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ====|=|=|=== | Kappa Kappa Psi--Omega ((| | |)) \| LIFE MEMBER - - - (((<<<---IN STEREO--->>>))) Return to table of contents
Date: 18 Jun 94 02:37:21 U From: Mailer.MC1 at hesdmail.mmm.com Subject: INBOX Message (See Below) InBox Message Type: Error InBox Message Subject: Undeliverable message InBox Message Text Follows: Message not delivered to 'MC2' (Disk full) - ------------------------- Original Message Follows ------------------------- Message too large (greater than 30000 bytes). See enclosure! - ------------------------- RFC822 Header Follows ------------------------- Received: by hesdmail with SMTP/TCP;18 Jun 94 02:33:08 U Received: from pigseye.mmm.com by mmm ( 3M/SERC - 4.1/BDR-1.0) idAA22150; Sat, 18 Jun 94 02:41:45 CDT Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Received: by pigseye.mmm.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10031; Sat, 18 Jun 94 02:36:30 CDT Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Received: from hpfcrdg.fc.hp.com by hpfcla.fc.hp.com with SMTP ( 3.20) id AA05197; Sat, 18 Jun 94 01:34:17 -0600 Received: by hpfcmi.fc.hp.com ( 3.22) id AA06449; Sat, 18 Jun 1994 01:00:53 -0600 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 01:00:53 -0600 Message-Id: <9406180700.AA06449 at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com> To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com From: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Request Address Only - No Articles) Reply-To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Posting Address Only - No Requests) Errors-To: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Precedence: bulk Subject: Homebrew Digest #1453 (June 18, 1994) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 94 07:42:59 EDT From: djfitzg at VNET.IBM.COM Subject: RIGHTFUL BREWING >Extracts do not make mediocre or lousy beer, they do >not make beer at all. We should realize, that using extracts is >only self-fraud and wasting money. Malt extracts are incontrovertibly >even at their best only malt SURROGATES. Btw quality malt is cheaper >than any rubbishy extract! . WHO DIED AND CROWNED THIS CAT,ILKKA, KING OF HOMEBREWING!!!! TO ILKKA: I THINK YOUR THESIS STINKS,, JUST LIKE YOUR BREW... djfitzg at vnet.ibm.com Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 94 09:41:30 -0700 From: John Glaser <glaser at analog.ece.arizona.edu> Subject: yet another COUNTERFLOW CHILLER Haven't heard anything about wort chillers lately, so I thought I bring it up yet again. I initially used an immersion chiller (30 ft of 3/8" Cu, etc.). This would take an hour or two to chill 5 gallons, with stirring about every 5-10 min. When I say chill, I mean bring the water to about 10 degrees above tap temperature, which varies from about 65F in the winter to about 90F! in the summer. So, I built a counterflow chiller: I got the idea from the Brewer's Resource catalog, where they had an all-metal counterflow chiller. Mine is very similar, using 22.5' of 3/8" o.d. soft Cu tubing inside 21' of 5/8" o.d. soft Cu tubing. I used 1/2" tees on the ends (1/2" tees are made for 1/2" i.d. rigid Cu tubing, which conveniently has a 5/8" or so o.d.). For the chilling water feed, I used standard garden hose fittings which I made fit into the right-angle part of the tee and soldered. I can sterilize it by chucking the whole thing in a 200F oven. I tested this chiller with boiling water, and it will bring the temp to a degree or two above chilling water input with -boiling- water flowing full throttle. The test on beer will be tomorrow, where I will use a tap water prechiller (just a 15' tubing coil in a bucket of ice). If I have to stir the ice in the prechiller, that's no big deal. It's better (and faster) than waiting more than an hour for lukewarm wort. Also, I don't have to mess with the beer-to-be. John Glaser (glaser at analog.ece.arizona.edu) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 94 12:53:11 EDT From: BradWoods at aol.com Subject: Cylindro-conical fermenters Wyatt writes: >Has anyone used, priced, seen or heard any information on > cylindroconical fermenters. , etc Yes, there will be at least one 5 gallon, stainless steel, cylindro-conical fermenter introduced next week at the AHA Convention in Denver Brad Woods Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 10:02:37 -0700 (PDT) From: weix at netcom.com (Patrick Weix) Subject: Clear Beer/Self-Righteous Brewing First, the easy one: > From: Alexander J Ramos <geotex at eecs.umich.edu> > Subject: Cloudy beer He does this: > Boil > Chill with immersion chiller > Filter through mesh collander into primary (poured through) > When primary fermentation stops, rack to secondary. > When beer clears in secondary, rack to bucket, bottle. > I am not using any agents to help clear the beer right now. Does anyone > have any suggestion on how to get my beer from being cloudy? Actually, your ingredients have a lot to do with beer cloudiness, so no definative plan can be given, but here are my suggestions in order of what could be done. 1. When you rack to the secondary, do you get every drop or do you leave the cloudy, trub-laden last pint behind? The same goes for racking to the bucket before priming. Your racking cane should have a little plastic support just high enough to keep it out of the sediment. 2. Use a hop bag and a grain bag. a. They cut down on the number of small particles that get to the primary (it can't hurt). b. The grain bag makes it easy to remove all of the grains quickly once the water gets to 80 deg C (assuming you use specialty grains). This is important because boiling the grains would leach out the tannins from the husks, and they could give you a chill haze problem. 3. Start using Irish Moss in the last 15 min of the boil to make help clear the beer. 4. Accept the fact that real beer will never look quite as clear as some super-filtered, over-carbonated, half-sake-and-half-beer commercial brand :). Good luck. > From: Ilkka Sysil{ <isysila at clinet.fi> > Subject: Rightful brewing > > Concise discourse on rightful brewing. Collected theses PART 1. 1. If this is a joke, it is pretty funny. It is amazing how pig-headed some people can be. 2. If this ain't a joke, take it to alt.religion. We don't need another flame war between the extracters and the all-grainers. This forum is for the exchange of ideas and information, not for the castigation of people with alternate brewing lifestyles :). Patrick - -- "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." Tom Waits Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 94 09:16:00 -0800 From: rob.skinner at kandy.com (Rob Skinner) Subject: mead yeast Is there a high quality yeast (on slants or liquid) available that is appropriate for mead? Email me with any suggestions. Thanks. Rob Skinner <rob.skinner at kandy.com> ___ * MR/2 2.03 NR * Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 94 12:58:09 CDT From: Phil Miller <C616063 at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu> Subject: Wort cooling What methods do you in homebrew-land use to cool your wort? I was thinking of using ice in a sink and placing the boiling pot in the ice for 15 or so minu tes. Any suggestions? Private email is most welcome. Phil c616063 at mizzou1.missouri.edu p.s. I am a relatively new brewer with 3 batches completed and one in the ferme nter bubbling away!!! Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 94 14:03:43 EDT From: HERVON at aol.com Subject: mail order I would like to get the names and phone numbers of several homebrewing mail order comp. I am new on HBD and many of the malts and yeast (e.g. wyeast) you speak of are not carried by my present mail order company. I would like to know where I can order wyeast. E mail would be fine Thank you Return to table of contents
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 14:38:04 -0700 From: mole at netcom.com (Aaron Birenboim) Subject: cleaning copper I have some copper tubing (chiller) which needs serious cleaning. It hass a scale, which is likely to be a combination of mineral deposits and oxides? of copper (the green stuff). How should I remove it? Vinegar, TSP, Lye, stronger acid (i have pickel, and could most likely get some nitric). I'm converting my old immersion chiller to counterflow, and i had never taken care of the INSIDE of the copper coil. aaron Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 16:56:52 -0700 (MST) From: Steven B Gruver <gruver at GAS.uug.Arizona.EDU> Subject: Back issues of Zymergy Is there a ftp or gopher site to view back issues of Zymergy? Any and all help is appreciated in advance. Steven B.Gruver > gruver at gas.uug.arizona.edu< University of Arizona - - - /| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ====|=|=|=== | Kappa Kappa Psi--Omega ((| | |)) \| LIFE MEMBER - - - (((<<<---IN STEREO--->>>))) Return to table of contents
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 94 23:58:14 CDT From: Eric Miller <GHMILLER at MUSIC.LOYNO.EDU> Subject: Ilkka Sysil's sermon on the mount as an extract brewer, I would like to personally thank Ilkka Sysil for enlightening me on the error of my ways. I now see how absurd I was to ever think I was actually producing BEER! (cue chorus of angels) I repent, oh thee my Ilkka Sysil, and hope you will accept me as one of your disciples. I, for one, know I would never consider your post to be a pompous and insulting piece of tripe like some other heathens surely will. I beseech you to please enlighten us with more of your divine wisdom! Eric "Judas" Miller ghmiller at music.loyno.edu Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1454, 06/20/94