FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Getting Beer through US Customs (Robert H. Reed)
  Bottles (Lee Hiers)
  Beer Kegs in Portland (Jack St Clair)
  Re: Soda kegs (and new BBS) (Dion Hollenbeck)
  new brewkettle (Jason Sloan)
  RE:Hangovers, Beer Kegs ("Upward, not Northward!")
  Re - Old Malt (S29033)
  St Pats / CO2 systems (MS08653)
  Kegs (Bob Fawcett)
  Old Malt, Wild Goose,  & a Question (PSTOKELY)
  What to do with a hard lump of extract ("Tim Langlois")
  Oatmeal Stout (extract) (Dale Orth)
  Vermont Handcrafted Beers (Chris Strickland)
  Re Primary vs Secondary ("Palmer.John")
  Computing volume (Keith Winter (510)226-2042)
  Re: needs colder refrigerator (Jay D. Hinkens)
  Slow Carb w/ Wyeast Amer.Ale ("Palmer.John")
  Wyeast 1056 (George Kavanagh O/o)
  Homebrew at parties (BrewerBob)
  American Brewer's Guild Homebrew Courses (Steve Armbrust)
  Fermenter O2, sparge pH, CaCl2, Zapap dead space (Nancy.Renner)
  Creamy head, counter pressure bottler, primary aging, 33 qt. kettle?, saccharine, Dave Line & plastic fermenter (Nancy.Renner)
  Hangovers and headspace (Alan_Deaton_at_CTC)
  Re: Shaking kegs & carbonation (Dion Hollenbeck)
  stein lids (Carl Howes <sdlcc::sdlsb::73410 at gatekeeper.ray.com>)
  Advanced Brewing Books (npyle)
  Sadness (npyle)
  Beer hunter videos? (braddw)
  garage sale keg (Sean Rooney)
  Computing Kettle Volume (James Nachman)
  Christmas Brew (Rnarvaez)
  Cutting kegs (EKTSR)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 12:12:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robert H. Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Getting Beer through US Customs

Tony asks about bringing beer back with you from the U.K.:

>     What kinds of limits are there on carrying alcoholic beverages back into
> the US?  Is there a special duty charged?  Anything you think might help?
> 
>     Second question -- Now that I've taken care of the legal aspects of my
> indirect beer hunting, I want some recomendations for the beers that shouldn't
> be missed (but could still be safely tucked in a suitcase).  I've taken the
> time to send her much of the information  in Greg Noonan's Scotch Ale book
> (lucky dog gets to spend a week in Edinburgh).  What about some other beers
> that might be available in Great Britian but not in the US?  Isn't Budvar (the
> real stuff, not the American, ahem, imitation) available in GB?
> 
I was in England several weeks ago and brought back two carry-on suitcases
back virtually bulging with beer.  I believe (someone correct me if I'm
wrong) you can bring back 12 liters of beer per person.  For an average size
bottle, this represents about 30+ bottles.  I found some Cassis, Budvar, some
good Scotch ales and bottle-conditioned brown ales, some obscure trappist
ales,  perry, and cider to bring back.

You can bring back $400 worth of stuff without duty, and you pay a
10% fee on everything above $400.  you can't bring in any fruits, 
farm products or the like, but you can bring back things like Lyles Golden
Syrup, demerara sugar, etc.

I'd suggest bringing your beer back in carry-on suitcases due to the less
than gentle treatment that you checked baggage typically receives.

When I ran my carry-ons through Gatwick security in London, the security
officers asked to look in my bag to verify that all the bottles they
'saw' were indeed harmless.

When entering the US, I claimed the value of all my stuff, and told the customs
officer I had canned sugar and beer, and he smiled and said go on.  A piece of
cake except for hauling two heavy suitcases through three plane changes.

Rob Reed

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Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 13:52 EST
From: Lee Hiers <0006701840 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Bottles

Sorry for the double spaces on the previous post...will try to figure out 
and correct.

What's the word on the Grolsch-type bottles?  Any problem with them as compared
to the good old 12-oz. returnables?  I'm new on the HBD, but have looked at
a good number of back-issues, so apologize if this has been discussed recently.

Private Email would be just fine.

Thanks.

Lee Hiers      aa4ga at mcimail.com

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Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 12:01:05 PST
From: Jack St Clair <Jack_St_Clair at ccm.co.intel.com>
Subject: Beer Kegs in Portland


Text item: Text_1

     I called Winkler Scrap Metal this morning and they will sell their 
     kegs at $22.00 for one and will negotiate a deal for quantities of 
     more than one.
     
     Happy Brewing,
     Jack St.Clair
     jack_st_clair at ccm.co.intel.com

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Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 14:12:38 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Soda kegs (and new BBS)

>>>>> "Russ" == Russ Shipman <harris.rshipman at ic1d.harris.com> writes:

Russ> I get my kegs from Amber Waves in Atlanta ($15 each, cheaper if
Russ> you "walk-in", and $2 for a full set of 5 O-rings). I don't have
Russ> the number, but you can call information.

Thanks, Russ.  I just talked to Harry at Amber Waves (404-315-1100)
and he not only has kegs available, but is confident that he will
continue to have them available.  The Pepsi ball lock kegs are $15
each, the Coke pin lock are $20 (mail order prices plus shipping -
about 10 lb. each).  He accepts credit cards.

BTW, he mentioned that about July 4th, they will have an all beer BBS 
come on line and the phone number will be (404)634-8980.

dion

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Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 18:24:35 -0400
From: aa3625 at freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu (Jason Sloan)
Subject: new brewkettle



Well, it looks like I have a new stainless brew kettle of the 7.5
gallon, chopped up quarter-barrel-keg variety!  I'm posting this
to say that my method is probably not the easiest/best way to open
the top of a keg.
     What I did was nearly fill the keg with water (to 0.5 inched
below where I wanted to cut) and then cut the top out with an 
acetylene torch.  This left some rather uneven edges, as stainless
is not very receptive to torch cutting.  I had to spend about an
hour getting the rough edges ground down with a hand grinder, but 
it looks pretty good now and I'm looking forward to performing my
first full boil tonight (thursday that is, the luxuries of still
being in school and living with the parents are much savored).
     Looks like I had better go to the hardware store and get
some copper tubing for that wort chiller.  One of these days I'll 
finally acquire all of the equipment for that first all-grain batch.
Sometime soon, I hope.
     Sorry for the sloppy grammar/spelling.  I have been breathing
too many CO fumes for the last couple of hours.
     P.S.  I wasted three "jig-saw" blades before I started swearing
              and broke out the heavy artillery.  Next time I'll 
              know better, I suppose.
Jason

- --
Jason Sloan
sloan01?jason at cc01.mssc.edu or aa3625 at freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu
- ---Yo ho ho and a bucket of homebrew...

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Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 19:01:46 -0500 (EST)
From: "Upward, not Northward!" <CULP1405 at splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: RE:Hangovers, Beer Kegs

A short interjection of my short wisdom. I think that precedent in the law
for beer kegs MAY be covered by the case of what the penalty is for stealing
milk crates. 

My favorite cure for hangovers is to eat as much brown rice as possible. And
to drink as much Gatorade or other sports drink as available. B vitamins and
electrolytes and glucose. Actually I really dislike being drunk and especially
hungover. Regarding commercial beers I once got a bad headache from one
Genessee beer. F--- that!


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Date: 24 Jun 1994 06:45:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: S29033%22681 at utrcgw.utc.com
Subject: Re - Old Malt

Andy Walsh writes:

>Somebody (sorry, I do not have a reference) wrote about malt lifetimes
>recently, quoting (from memory) 6 months for liquid, 6 months for uncrushed
>malt, 2 months for crushed pale malt in a well-sealed container.
>My question is: do you just throw out the malt after these intervals, or is
>there some way of testing the malt to see if it is stale? Is this an easy test
>or do you only find out after you've made the beer? What flavor profiles do
>beers made with old malt possess?

I can't answer your questions about the flavor profiles of old malts but in my
experience I have used malts (crushed and uncrushed) past the dates that you
have stated in your article and have had not problem producing excellent beer.
The beer might have been better if the malt was fresh - how long it sits around
at the malters (maltsters) is another good question.  I'll tell you what, if
your malt is too old (and not moldy) and you are planning on throwing it out,
E-mail me and you can ship it to me (I'll pay for shipping).  I know I can find
some use for it.

Lance Stronk
Sikorsky Aircraft, Stratford, CT.  

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Date:      24 Jun 94 07:25:49
From: MS08653 at MSBG.med.ge.com
Subject: St Pats / CO2 systems


FROM: "MICHAEL L. TEED"<MS08653 at MSBG>


   Dist:  INTERNET

 int homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

I bought the kegs from St Pats and found them to arrive in fair condition.
They still had the stickers 'property of ... ' on them, requiring some
effort on cleaning them inside and out, as there was still some syrup in
them. Biggest problem was using their rebuild O-ring sets, as they were
just common off the shelf rings available from your local hardware store,
and not the proper parts for the kegs.  Get your rebuild sets elsewhere.
BCI   has a very good price on rings, but probably have a minimum order.

ALso, prices on the used CO2 gear seems to be rather high, considering
what I paid for a completely new system. 5 lb tank, filled, with cobra head
tap and lines, single gauge regulator for $98. Add that to the $54 for 3
kegs from St Pats and that adds ip to $152. Still need some more hoses
to connect 3 tanks, but for a single system that is still a good price.

Hoppy brewing,
Mike Teed


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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 08:44:25 EDT
From: Bob Fawcett <bobf at gulfaero.com>
Subject: Kegs

Dave Wright asks:

I saw an ad in Zymurgy about used 5-gallon kegs at St. Patricks of 
Texas.   Is anyone familiar with the kegs they sell?  Are they in good 
condition?  It seems like a steal at 3 for $33, even with shipping.  
Thanks for any info.

I bought three.
They where in good condition.  They are shipped taped together with no 
other packaging - still arrived in good shape.


Bob Fawcett
bobf at gulfaero.com


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Date:          Fri, 24 Jun 1994 08:57:44 EDT
From: PSTOKELY at ea.umd.edu
Subject:       Old Malt, Wild Goose,  & a Question

This is my first post, so I'll try  not to  step on any toes....

Andy Walsh asked about old malt. Obviously, everyone recommends using 
only fresh malt. But if you have old malt on hand, I would recommend 
chewing a few grains and assessing the flavor and texture: Stale 
grains taste like stale cereal. Be warned, however, because your 
saliva contains amylase enzymes and will quickly convert your malt 
dextrins into sugar as you chew. Thus, go by initial impressions. I 
have kept malt in air tight metal cannisters for up to 6 months and 
have been satisfied with extraction rates, flavor, and body of the 
final brews. If in doubt, use more malt and toss in some Crosby & 
Baker amylase enzyme. (No flames, please)

Peter Nigra asked about one of my all-time favorite brews: Wild Goose 
Amber. I will be on the Eastern Shore of Maryland next week and I 
hope to visit the brewery  in Cambridge. From what I understand it is 
a small operation and perhaps I can pick up some hints on a comparable
home brew recipe. Peter, please post any good replies or forward them 
to me and I will do the same.

Finally, do you suppose Illka posted his theses to stir things up and 
create a little excitement? That's what I concluded.

"You speak in strange whispers, friend. Are you not of The Body?"
Paul Stokely in College Park, Maryland

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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 08:00:51 -0500
From: "Tim Langlois" <langlois at beanie.hsv.crc.com>
Subject: What to do with a hard lump of extract

I found a pound of dry malt extract in my brew supplies, nicely stored in a
plastic bag.  I was thinking of using it in my next brew.  The only problem is
that the dry malt has turned into rock malt (a very hard lump of malt extract).

My question is, can I still use it?  Will it break down in the boil? or should
I throw it out.

Thanks

Tim



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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 08:34:09 -0500
From: Dale Orth <orth at chem.wisc.edu>
Subject: Oatmeal Stout (extract) 


Last fall, someone on the list either posted a oatmeal stout recipe
based on William's extract or sent it to me. Unfortunately, I misplaced
it after promising the recipe to a friend who just started brewing.
He wants to brew it soon, and I am swamped with work (no time to search
the archives).

Could whoever posted it please send another copy to me? I (and he) really
do appreciate it.
			TIA and Happy Brewing,
				Dale L. Orth
				orth at chem.wisc.edu



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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 09:59:40 -0400
From: stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov (Chris Strickland)
Subject: Vermont Handcrafted Beers

While on my trip to Vermont I tried several of the local beers.

The Otter Creek Copper Ale was excellent!!!

The Long Trail Ale and Stout were very good beers, I thought the Stout was
better than Guiness.

The Catamount Porter and Bock were excellent, I even got to tour their brewry.
Their wheat beer has made me change my mind about wheat beers, it was very
good.  The amber and gold ales were good, and would be a great beer to start
the normal p*# at  drinker (I mean beer drinker) out on.

Here's a question I know has been answerd and is probably in a FAQ, but I just
can't seem to find the answer.  How do I determine the extraction rate of my
sparge?  Miller has something like (SG * 5 gal water)/lbs Malt.  But I don't
always us 5 gal of water, I actually use up to 8 gal water and boil down to 
around 6 gal.

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Chris Strickland               |   Allin1: stricklandc                      |
| Systems Analyst/Statistician   |   Email : stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Date: 24 Jun 1994 08:02:08 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Re Primary vs Secondary

Zoz wrote:
What makes a primary different from a secondary, other than less
dead yeast at the bottom?

Survey Says:
The dead yeast on the bottom IS the difference between the primary and
secondary
vessels. The following is excerpted from How to brew your first Beer, Rev D:

The fermentation of malt sugars into beer is a complicated
biochemical process. It is more than just attenuation, which can
be regarded as the primary activity. Total fermentation is better
defined as two phases, the Primary or Attenuative phase and a
Secondary or Conditioning phase. The yeast do not end Phase 1
before beginning Phase 2, the processes occur in parallel, but
the conditioning processes occur more slowly. This is why beer
(and wine) improves with age. Tasting the beer at bottling time
will show rough edges that will disappear after a few weeks in the
bottle. Because the conditioning process is a function of the yeast,
it follows that the greater yeast mass in the fermenter is more
effective at conditioning the beer than the smaller amount of
suspended yeast in the bottle. Leaving the beer in the fermenter for
a total of two or even three weeks will go a long way to improving
the final beer. This will also allow time for more sediment to
settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer.

The flip side of the Conditioning process is Autolysis. Autolysis results when
the yeast realize that supply is not meeting demand and they revolt against
Greenspan and the other Imperia...(ahem) the lack of sugars causes some of them
to secrete enzymes that break down the cell walls of their dead kin on the
bottom and they turn ghoulish. It is the large mass of dead yeast on the bottom
of the vessel that causes problems with autolysis; racking the beer off of the
dead yeast (brownish) allows the conditioning phase to proceed without having
to worry about the heinous flavors resulting from cannabalistic yeast. The
whitish (healthy) yeast mass on the bottom of the secondary fermenter is
beneficial to the conditioning process. Many brewers repitch this fresher yeast
from the secondary to a new batch of beer. One last comment, autolysis takes a
while to happen, occuring more quickly at higher relative temperatures for a
particular yeast strain. I have not had it happen to me, but I will estimate it
would take about a month at Ale temps for an ale beer sitting in the primary to
begin to produce off flavors. But I could be wrong.

By the way, In case anyone wants it, Rev D of my How To document hit the net
about two weeks ago and is available from Sierra, Homebrew U BBS, Spencer's
Beer Page and a couple other BBSs. The changes include the above discussion of
Secondary Fermentation, how to use a hydrometer (more or less), and a lot of
grammar changes.
 -John J. Palmer 
MDA-SSD M&P  palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com   OR
palmer#d#john.ssd-hb_#l#15&22#r# at ssdgwy.mdc.com

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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 08:06:53 -0800
From: winter at corp.cirrus.com (Keith Winter (510)226-2042)
Subject: Computing volume

In HBD 1458, Steve Scampini writes:

>On another note, I recently measured my "33 quart" enamel brewpot...
>15.5 inches in diameter and 10 inches deep.  Basically, a simple
>truncated cylinder.  Based on the conversion factor of cubic feet to
>US gallons, I keep coming up with more like 7.15 gallons rather than
>8.25 gallons.  Am I blowing what is an incredibly simple calculation
>or is this like buying a Two by Four stud and finding it to be 1.5 X
>3.5 inches?

I come up with 8.16847 gallons (using 231 cu. in/gal) thus:

       ( ( (15.5/2)^2 * 3.14159 ) * 10 ) / 231 = 8.16848 gallons


Keith Winter (winter at corp.cirrus.com)          Engineer/Brewer :-)





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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 10:16:33 -0500
From: jhinkens at facstaff.wisc.edu (Jay D. Hinkens)
Subject: Re: needs colder refrigerator

Rob Skinner writes:
   Now remove the thermostat;  maybe it screws in, maybe it snaps in?
   Look at the back side of the thermostat.  You'll probably find two 
   wires.  Cut the two wires off, leaving long enough leads for 
   reattatchment in case you change your mind later.  Strip the ends of
   the two wires and attatch them together with a wire nut.  Check 
   your connection, make sure there are no dangling wires, and plug
   in the frige.  It should start running immediately and keep running.


Hmmm, how about wiring a switch in parallel with the thermostat leads? 
Switch open: the fridge's thermostat controls the frige; Switch Closed: 
the Honywell Gizmo.

Make sure to use a switch that's rated for the current and voltage being
switched by the thermostat.  This switch could be mounted right next to the
existing temperature dial on the frige or maybe on the outside...

This way, with the flip of a switch, your frige is back to normal and you
can set it to "2.5" or "cooler" which is much more comforting when used for
food than some exact temperature like 36 degrees...  I mean, having a
digital thermometer on a food frige makes it seem like a piece of lab
equipment -- and that's just weird!

My guess is that the external controller will cycle the frige differently
(more frequently) than the normal thermostat and could increase wear. 
Switching the frige back to "normal" when not lagering could extent it's
life...

 -Jay
Jay D. Hinkens
Trace R&D Center
Madison, Wisconsin
jHinkens at facstaff.wisc.edu


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Date: 24 Jun 1994 08:22:07 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Slow Carb w/ Wyeast Amer.Ale

In response to Eric's slow carbonation problems:
When I did my SN Porter clone several months ago, I had the same slow
carbonation problem. Now, my Porter sat in the Secondary for 3 weeks, but I had
yeast on the bottom of the bottles 3 weeks after bottling. Meager carbonation,
so I shook up each bottle, and let them sit another week. And carbonation
improved considerably. One bottle that I shipped to a friend was reported to
have really good carbonation, so I think that agitation really helps keep the
yeast awake.

 -John

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Date: 24 Jun 1994 11:19:49 -0500
From: George Kavanagh O/o <George.Kavanagh at omail.wang.com>
Subject: Wyeast 1056

In HBD 1458, Erik Speckman (especkma at reed.edu) writes
that he is experiencing dissapointing carbonation when using
Wyeast 1056 chico ale yeast.
 
I have been brewing a series of controlled recipe batches
( I bottled #7 two weeks ago), where 1056 is one of the
constants, and, have also been experiencing "low carbonation"
batches.  (Thanks to many on the HBD who responded
to my queries several months ago).  I had primed all batches
with 3/4 cup corn sugar, and was worrying that most batches 
were flat, or only slightly carbonated after 4-6 weeks in the bottle.
I had completely given up until I tried a bottle from a 6 month old
batch.  It was wonderful, if _slightly_ undercarbonated.
Moral:  wait for it.

A recent article in Zymurgy has a diagnostic desision tree to
determine the cause of low carbonation.  By using the procedure
recommended, I determined that I had been underpriming, so I
have increased prime to 1 cup of sugar.  In the most recent batch
(#7) I swirled the dregs in the secondary carboy after racking the
beer to my bottling bucket, poured the dregs into a sterile
mason jar, let it sit for 5 minutes (covered), and poured 1/2
of the yeasty liquid into the bottling bucket along with the priming
sugar.  Result: tasty beer with good carbonation and nice head
after only 2 weeks in the bottle (but it may become overcarbonated
in 6 months (if there is any left!) ); we'll see.

 - gk ( George.Kavanagh at omail.wang.com ) 






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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 11:47:04 EDT
From: BrewerBob at aol.com
Subject: Homebrew at parties

Jason Sloan asked if the cops at a party would arrest him for having
cornelius kegs that belong to company xxx.

I would be a lot more concerned about being arrested for the beer than the
kegs! Remember, you are allow to make 100 gallons (maybe 200 in a multiple
adult household) of beer per year FOR PERSONAL CONSUMPTION without having to
pay taxes. Some states may carry that even farther than the tax aspect alone.

If you give away beer that you made yourself, you may be subject to all sorts
of problems, depending on the state in which you reside! Of course we all
give homebrew away but we don't necessarily flant it!

In conclusion, if the beer is good, I truly doubt there will be anybody
there, short of a tax man that may be present, that will care a hoot one way
or the other! Have a good time!

BrewerBob at aol.com


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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 08:48:50 PST
From: Steve Armbrust <Steve_Armbrust at ccm.co.intel.com>
Subject: American Brewer's Guild Homebrew Courses


Text item: Text_1

I just got a brochure from the American Brewer's Guild on several 
classes they offer. (The address is Davis, CA, and it mentions Dr. 
Michael Lewis, so it might be affiliated with UC-Davis).

They're offering a 2-day, weekend series ("Brewing Science for the 
Advanced Homebrewer" and "Special Topics for Advanced Homebrewers") 
that's actually being offered here in Portland, OR on Aug 27-28. Cost 
for both days is $200.  

Does anyone know anything about these classes?  Are they worth going to? 
I've got a half-dozen or so all-grain batches under my belt.  Would the 
classes be too advanced for me?  Too easy?

They've got this class series scheduled throughout the year at other 
major cities.  Rather than waste bandwidth by listing them all, I'll 
give you their numbers.  800-636-1331  or 916-753-0497.

I have no association with these folks.

Steve Armbrust
Steve_Armbrust at ccm.hf.intel.com 

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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 12:05:30 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Fermenter O2, sparge pH, CaCl2, Zapap dead space

 From *Jeff* Renner 
 
Jim Busch comments on my thoughts on Norm Pyle's ideas on Steven Gruber's 
feeling that dry hopping protects against oxidation during fermentation (got 
that?).  You're right, Jim.  The thread was better interpreted as pertaining 
to atmospheric O2 than dissolved.  I thought it was another example of 
someone thinking that bubbling CO2 would scrub dissolved O2.  Thanks for 
backing me up when it caroms off my glove. 
- --------------- 
WIRESULTS at WINET.mste.org has such soft water that the village adds NaOH to 
raise the pH!  Wow!  One person's problem is another's wish.  I'd say that 
you don't have to worry about the sparge pH.  The mash acidity is so 
buffered that it will take care of that, *if* the mash pH is good.  Unless 
you want to do a *long* Pilsen style acid rest, that means getting the 
Ca(+2) up to a minimum of 50 ppm.  I like gypsum for ales and CaCl2 for 
lagers (see post of a few days ago).  Your water is so nearly neutral that 
it would make a good starting place for the addition of any ions you need. 
- --------------- 
BTW, why is food grade CaCl2 so hard to find?  I have mine thanks to a 
friend at the Univ., but shops and mail orders don't seem to carry it.  The 
raw stuff it dirt cheap - they spread it on roads to deep the dust down in 
summer (it's hydroscopic).  Miller and others recommend it - it's a great 
way of boosting Ca without the SO4. 
- ---------------- 
Terry Terfinko wonders about the dead space under the false bottom in a 
Zapap lauter tun.  I think this is more of a perceived problem than an 
actual one, although next time I uncaulk mine, I may trim a ring off the 
outer bucket to reduce it.  It means that when you cover the false bottom 
with water prior to adding the mashed grains, you need an extra 3 - 4 qts.  
The first runnings are therefore going to be quite dilute, but since you are 
going to recirculate this anyway, it really doesn't matter.  You just need 
to prepare extra water, which may or may not be a problem. 
 
Jeff Renner

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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 12:08:00 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Creamy head, counter pressure bottler, primary aging, 33 qt. kettle?, saccharine, Dave Line & plastic fermenter

 From *Jeff* Renner 
 
To continue the thread on carbonation and head quality, let me share my 
creamy solution.  It also works to defizz overly fizzy beers.  I got the 
idea after seeing a "sparkler" tap in England, which is an adjustably 
restricted orifice.  When our son was a baby (he's 19 now and drinking my 
beer!), we gave him medicine with a 10 cc oral syringe from the drug store.  
I just use this (it hardly tastes of penicillin at all anymore ;o) to suck 
up an few cc's of beer from the glass and squirt it back into the beer, more 
or less forcefully depending on how much head/defizzing I want.  You have to 
have lots of extra space in the glass.  It makes a creamy, tight head and a 
creamier beer.  In a restaurant, I just stir it with a fork.  I'm also known 
by more than one waiter as the nut who wants his ales microwaved 15 seconds! 
- -------------- 
Jeff Benjamin is considering a counter pressure bottler.  The problem I've 
had with mine is that I don't keep my carbonation high enough in the keg to 
get a good level in the bottle.  It's acceptable, but judges often comment 
on the low carbonation, which, of course, often results in a low head. 
- -------------- 
zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au says his beer will have to sit in the primary for 5 
weeks, and wonders what the difference is between a primary and a secondary, 
just more yeast?  Yes, that and more trub, hop resins, and other related 
boogers.  If you can manage it, get another carboy and rack, diluting a 
little if you have to to minimize ullage.  Cooling it to lower 50's (or 
lower teens for the sensible world) will help whether or not you rack.  
Since it's now winter in Oz, that shouldn't be too hard.  And you could 
postpone brewing until just before you leave, cutting the time on dregs to 
three weeks, an entirely safe time, IMNSHO. 
- ------------ 
Steve Scampini is not sure his 33 qt. kettle really is.  Steve, using your 
figures for dimensions and 231 in^3/gal, I get 8.16 gallons, pretty close.  
For a simple way of judging how much liquid is in your kettle, make a dip 
stick.  Fill the kettle a gallon at a time and mark a stick or dowel at each 
gallon.  Then you can estimate yield, OG etc. early in the boil. 
- ------------- 
Pbr322 at aol.com doesn't want saccharine in his beer, as recommended by Dave 
Line.  Neither do I.  As I suggested in a recent post, I really like these 
old books, but I think we have to treat them as historical sources.  They 
are good starting points, but ingredients (and information) have really 
improved since they were written.  While Dave said he called for saccharine 
because "luscious brewing sugars" were not available to homebrewers, I think 
a more important variable was that the only yeasts easily available were 
very attenuating dry ones.  I think that if you select on that is less 
attenuative, select appropriate crystal malts, and keep your mash temps up, 
you'll do fine. 
- ------------ 
A tragic side note - Dave Line said he was concerned about "the suitability 
of my cheap dustbin for home brewing regarding the stability of the chemical 
filler used in the manufacture for binding the plastic.  When the problem 
first came to light, I asked the advice of a chemist friend. ... From his 
remarks, it seems that, seeing that I survived the first brew when the 
majority of toxic substances are leached out into the beer, I should live to 
brew many more gallons of ale!"  His optimism was premature.  He died of 
cancer before he was forty. :o(  Moral:  Use glass or stainless fermenters, 
or NSF approved food grade. 
 
Jeff Renner

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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 11:14:04 
From: Alan_Deaton_at_CTC at relay.aar.com
Subject: Hangovers and headspace


Text item: Untitled

     First, my 2 cents regarding hangovers,  the reason  that your head hurts is
that
your brain, irritated by a toxic substance ( alcohol ) and becomes
inflamed .  This can be alleviated by an over the counter
anti-inflammitory drug, plain old aspirin. ( preferably buffered due to the
condition that your stomach is certainly in ).  Take two 
or three with the copious amounts of  water you drink before 
going to bed.



Now for the headspace question.

    After you bottle your beer, your yeasties continue to grow up, get jobs,
have 
little yeasties, ponder the meaning of their life and die.   Assuming that
you have enough sugar to keep your yeast happy,  they will continue
to produce trace insignificant amounts of alcohol, and very importantly,
CO 2 .  As time rolls on, eventually your yeast will  become less active.
Assuming that enough sugar is present,  the amount of CO 2  your yeast
produces will be almost purely a function of PRESSURE.  Beer is mostly
water, this makes it difficult to compress.  The headspace in your bottle
is mostly gaseous. This makes it relatively easy to compress.  As your
yeasties  produce carbon dioxide, the pressure in your bottle increases.
When the pressure becomes too high,  your yeast can no longer produce
carbon dioxide( nowhere to put it ).  
     This means that if you leave no headspace in your bottles, the yeast 
won't be able to produce very much CO 2 before the pressure in the bottle 
causes them to become inactive.  If the headspace is too large,  then
the yeast can produce quantities of CO 2 inappropriately large for
a 12 oz. bottle of beer.( this can cause excessive foaming upon opening and
I have HEARD it can actually create bottle bombs )  

I leave about 1" of headspace in my bottles.  This works well for me.
Conveniently, it is about the same volume that my filler displaces
when in the bottle.  Your mileage may very, but 1 - 11/4 " seems to
be pretty universal headspace for 12 oz. bottles.    


/Alan Deaton             alan_deaton at relay.aar.com






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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 09:44:14 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Shaking kegs & carbonation

>>>>> "Jeff" == Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com> writes:

Jeff> I may buy a counterpressure bottle filler soon.  If so, I'll be
Jeff> able to compare tap-dispensing vs bottle pouring on the same,
Jeff> force-carbonated beer.

Be aware that you cannot fill bottles and dispense from a keg with the
same amount of dissolved CO2 in the same beer.  For instance, I force
carbonate with 15 psi (at room temp) for dispensing from keg and in
order for bottles of the same beer to be correctly carbonated, I need
to use 30 psi.  

Also, once you have boosted the carbonation for bottling, you need to
release pressure down to almost nil and let excess dissolved
carbonation come out of solution and reach equilibrium.  This will
take almost as long as it did to force carbonate.  I refer to the
"no shake" method here.  If you try to dispense a beer properly
carbonated for bottling, you will get nothing but foam.

Please, if anyone has a solution other than this, I would sure like to
hear about it.

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 12:50:51 EDT
From: sdlcc::sdlsb::73410 at gatekeeper.ray.com (Carl Howes <sdlcc::sdlsb::73410 at gatekeeper.ray.com>)
Subject: stein lids

Another data point on stein lids.  I read many years back that the *original*
purpose of the lids was to keep enemies who might be drinking in the same
tavern/inn from poisoning your brew.

Carl
73410 at sdlcc.msd.ray.com


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Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 15:10:18 MDT
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com
Subject: Advanced Brewing Books

I recently received the Siebel Alumni News, although I'm not a Siebel alum,
and there was an item of interest about the republication of DeClerk's book,
"A Textbook of Brewing".  They said that, in a pre-publication offer, they
will offer the two volume set for $69 plus shipping/handling.  After July 31,
the set will be $89+ and single volumes will go for $53+.  It states "This
large work is comprised of two volumes totaling 1235 pages, the first of
which is given up to the study of production and plant, while the second is
devoted to analysis and control".  It seems to me I'd be interested in the
second volume, but I'd hate to miss the first if it was also good.  Can
anyone comment on this set, whether volume one is worthwhile, or indeed if
either is worthwhile?  Any other books which might better replace a set of
this magnitude (MABS, for example)?  I've heard of another book by Hough
called "The Biotechnology of Malting and Brewing".  Any owners of this one?
Any comments?  The DeClerk set is in paperback, BTW.

Cheers,
Norm = npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com

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Date: Thu, 23 Jun 94 8:40:15 MDT
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com
Subject: Sadness

Well, it seems I've lost one.  Well its not a total loss; the beer is OK, but
just 3 weeks ago it was incredible.  As my old college professor used to say,
"Let's begin from the beginning" (he never was too witty).

It is an amber ale brewed on the low gravity side (around 1.040 or less).  I
mashed some nice Belgian specialty malts with a mix of American and British
2-row.  I had more than 5 gallons so in the secondary I split it up between
a carboy and a couple of 1 gallon jugs.  The carboy contained 4 gallons and
an ounce of Cascade dry hops.  The two smaller jugs had no dry hops.  While
waiting to find time to keg it, I occasionally (Oh, OK, OK, it was every damn
day!) tasted the beer in one of the small jugs.  I just popped off the f-lock
and poured a glass (it was crystal clear and very lightly carbonated).  This
beer was just incredible, with a great balance, and the best malt aroma I've
ever achieved in one of my own.  I figured that once it was kegged I would
have to create a new religion or something just to keep the masses at bay.

Well, into the keg it all went (By that time the one "sampling" jug was
empty).  It was indeed good, but I was a little disappointed in that the dry
hops overcame the wonderful malt flavors.  They were there, but hidden in the
background.  I served it to some friends and received lots of smiles and good
words, so I guess the dry hops weren't too overdone.

Now, 3 weeks since kegging, and about 6 weeks since brewing, the beer is
going off.  It has a medicinal taste; hard to describe, as many flavors are,
but reminds me of some medicine I once took.  Of course, I suspect infection,
but what type?  Any other possible causes?  The keg is a new used one, and it
is possible (but not probable) I didn't get it scrubbed in every nook and
cranny.  The dry hops were homegrown (not by me - my poor hops are under
attack) and homedried, so I suppose it is also possible they picked up
something that commercial hops wouldn't (although it pains me to suspect the
dry hops, as I've claimed in the past that this is unheard of...).  Of
course, I'll check my sanitation practices, and consider replacing old hoses
and possibly my old racking cane.  One more thing:  the hose from my mash/
lauter tun to the boiler is starting to get a little mold or mildew (what's
the difference?) growing in it.  I haven't worried about since the liquid is
on its way to be boiled, but should I?  I'd appreciate some comments on this
one.  I'm definitely going to brew this beer again, which I rarely do, and I
don't want to make the same mistake twice.

Cheers,
Norm = npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com

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Date: Fri Jun 24 13:50:35 1994
From: braddw at rounder.rounder.com
Subject: Beer hunter videos?

After having this bounced back from dftraino at jersey.ingr.com I am forced
to post it to the digest.

I've heard of them, I've looked for copies, I've done it all (or at least
I thought), but I could never find what you have!  I am a great fan of
Mr. Jackson and would love to see these.  Is there any possibilty of
having you, for a price of course :-), copy these and send them to me via
snail mail?  

Does anyone else living in Ma. have these or know of a library that has
them?  I'm in Somerville, Ma.  Let me know please.  Until then,
   
   **** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ----  ****
  C|~~| ----------------------------------------------- C|~~|
   `--'  --------------braddw at rounder.com-------------   `--'
          -------------------------------------------

Bradd Wheeler.



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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 13:34:17 -0600
From: Sean.Rooney at uic.edu (Sean Rooney)
Subject: garage sale keg

I am sorry to admit I am keg illiterate.  I bought a 15.5 gallon Pabst keg
at a garage sale for a dollar.  It is barrel shaped, has a wooden bung on
the side, and has a male threaded fitting on top with two round holes of
different diameters, both small.  Does anybody know what kind of keg this
is, and if it's good for anything?  I'm thinking of cutting off the top and
using it for a kettle, but I don't want to ruin it if it's especially good
as a mash tun, or for beer storage, or whatever.  While you're at it,
what's the definition of: a Sanke keg, a Sanke tap, a Golden Gate keg, a
half-barrel keg, and a pony keg?  This would seem to be of general
interest.

thanks in advance

P.S.  I'm not giving it back to Pabst.  I paid my hard earned money for it
and it's MINE, ALL MINE!!  >:)


Sean Rooney
Department of Genetics
University of Illinois at Chicago
808 S. Wood St.   M/C 669
Chicago, IL  60612

email:  Sean.Rooney at uic.edu
Phone: (312) 996-6090
Fax: (312) 413-0226



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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 11:32:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: uswnvg!jnachma at uunet.uu.net (James Nachman)
Subject: Computing Kettle Volume

Steve Scampini Writes:

>On another note, I recently measured my "33 quart" enamel brewpot...
>15.5 inches in diameter and 10 inches deep.  Basically, a simple
>truncated cylinder.  Based on the conversion factor of cubic feet to
>US gallons, I keep coming up with more like 7.15 gallons rather than
>8.25 gallons.  Am I blowing what is an incredibly simple calculation
>or is this like buying a Two by Four stud and finding it to be 1.5 X
>3.5 inches?


The formula for computing this is the following:

(radius of kettle)^2 * Pi(3.14159) * depth of the kettle * (cubic inches
to gallons converson factor) 1/231


My HP gave me the following numbers:

(7.75)^2 * 3.14159 * 10 * .0043290004 = 8.168


The units flow in the following manner:

inches^2 * unitless * inches * gallon/inches^3 = gallons

Jim Nachman
US West Cellular
Seattle Washington
jnachma at uswnvg.com


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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 10:51:18 -0500
From: Rnarvaez at lan.mcl.bdm.com
Subject:  Christmas Brew

Hello all you Home brewers,
First I would like to thank all the people who have responded
to my previous posts, all the information helped me out
alot. This Digest has be a vast sea of information for a
somewhat novice brewer as myself.

Second I would like to ask a couple of questions about
brewing a christmas ale. I have seen a couple of recipes
about brewing spiced ales but would like some more
information. Should I combine and boil all of the spices into a
tea, or should I just add the spices dry?  Should I add to the
boil, after the boil in the primary, or into the secondary?
I would like to brew a Christmas Ale now so that it has plenty
of aging time. If anybody has made a good
Christmas(spiced)ale and would like to share the recipe I
would be more than happy to try them out.
One last question and this might be a strange one......
Has anybody used the spices that are used in a apple pie
(nutmeg, cinnamon, allspice, and apples) to make a apple
pie ale? I thought it might have a good taste but I am not
sure If I want to experiment with a full batch of something like
that.

Please respond by Email
RNarvaez at lan.bdm.com

Thanks for any help given.....





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Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 15:46:12 EDT
From: EKTSR at aol.com
Subject: Cutting kegs

Okay, I've got the flame proof suit on...
I have just acquired a key for a measly price of $10.  Of course what should
appear but these discussions on legality of cutting it up.....  I think I can
live with myself (although it has given me pause to think it thru).  Can
anyone e-mail me with instruction on how to cut the top off.??  Do I remember
previous issues dealing with this??
Thanks in advance:
ektsr at aol.com
FWIW, I totally agree with the idea of identifying who you are on HBD (a
friendlier group for sure) but with the A-B keg police out there..... ;-) 


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1459, 06/25/94