FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Weizen / B-complex / Headspace (Robert H. Reed)
  Corny Kegs etc. (wyatt)
  Can never think of a good subject line. (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
  brew king vs party pig (Victor Franklin)
  Beer keg crimes -- #3 (and last) (Louis K. Bonham)
  Apple Pie Ale (Speed Freak)
  bottle conditioning (Pierre Jelenc)
  Recipe For Brewer's Bread? (MontyE)
  Volume and Brew-it-yourself in PDX (Jim Cook)
  The American Brewers' Guild (Martin Lodahl)
  CO2 scrubbing O2 out of the wort. (Erik Speckman)
  Carbonation and Head space. (Erik Speckman)
  Re: What to do with a hard lump of malt extract. (Juan Madrigal)
  Full Boil and Chlorine (Phil Brushaber)
  More on Filters (Phil Brushaber)
  chipping, filters, kegs (Jack Schmidling)
  Brewers Mystery Meat (Bluebeard)
  Pepper Beer (Dodger Posey)
  Hangovers (msh)
  Attention Cork Soakers: (Bill Rust)
  Extract Lumps (Mike Zentner)
  Aquarium pump aeration (JameyJay)


Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from 
  sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via 
  mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu.  Send HELP as the body of a 
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) 
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 17:03:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robert H. Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Weizen / B-complex / Headspace

Don writes regarding a Weizen:
> 
> I just started batch 9 (preparing the starter), which is a Weizen.  I noticed
> that the liquid yeast was a lager, at least I think so.  The HB store where I
> got it (Heartland Hydroponics) has it Identified as B80 (Weizen (says
> fermentation T=56'F) .  I believe that ther scheme is A## for ales, and B##
> for lagers.  
> 
> Since I believe its a lager and I do not plan on lagering it (no room in the
> fridge), is there anything that I should be aware of.  Will it be similar to
> Steam Beer (fermenting wise - not flavorwise, obviously) or should I not have
> jumped the gun.
> 

Are you trying to make the typical South German Weizen?  I have never seen
a lager yeast culture used to make traditional Weizen.  Isn't the            
traditional Weizen culture an ale strain with S. delbrueckii?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ed wrote:
> 
> As a searcher for the "hangover helper" grail, I can't help
> but chuckle at the recent b-complex vitamin suggestion.  Not
> derisively, because anything which helps you over a hangover
> is a good thing, but I'd like to point out that brewer's yeast
> is an excellent source of b-complex vitamins.  Check with
> your local health food store or guru.  So the more you drink,
> the more b-complex you get and the better you are?  Hmm...
> sounds fishy.
> 

Is brewers yeast high in B-*complex*?  Data I have seen showed
brewer's yeast to be very high in B-12, but with little to
none of the other B-vitamins.  I have not researched the subject
and certainly don't want to start a mash-out/siphon sucking/
pronunciation of trub controversy.  Just thought I add my $0.02.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

There was a post regarding head space (by js, I believe) and I 
wanted to add that I use a very high fill - 1/8" to 1/4" and
have never had problems.  I take a lot of grief from judges on
this matter.  I have experimented with high fills and with
zero headspace and the only problems I have ever had is with
*zero* headspace. (burst bottles)  The point I wanted to make
is that the conventional recommendation of a 1" headspace is
not required.  At least not in the beers/sparkling meads that 
I have bottled.  I think this headspace recommendation is
based on commercial practice - CP bottling with foaming prior
to capping and requirements of an exact 12 oz. fill.

 -Rob Reed

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 24 Jun 94 16:09:49 pst
From: wyatt at Latitude.COM
Subject: Corny Kegs etc.

      I have been noticing the discussion over kegs and also have been 
     wondering when corny kegs would become a concern.  I have bought most 
     of my kegs from homebrew shops for between $20 and $35.  I have 
     noticed that they pretty much all say that they are the property of 
     7-UP, Sugarsweet,etc.  I have receipts for most of them and have 
     purchased all of them legitamatly (unless the homebrew shops are 
     dealing in hot merchandise).  I assume that the soda companies sell 
     them off after they reach a certain age or whatever.  I have often 
     wondered about whether or not some problem would eventually arise 
     about these kegs, but the people I have talked to about this subject 
     have said that nobody is worried about corny kegs.  I can't see buying 
     new kegs as the used ones work just as well for 1/3 the price.  If 
     there is a problem with owning or possessing these kegs I don't think 
     that the soda companies should be able to sell used kegs and I know 
     they do because I bought a couple directly from them.  I also think 
     that part of the reason that such a big deal is made about kegs is the 
     fact that the big brewerys don't really want homebrewing to be legal 
     (just look at some of the commercials they have been using lately 
     putting down homebrewers).  The micro's don't have much to worry about 
     but homebrewing is making a lot of people realize that beer isn't 
     necessarily only the cheap swill that brewers like AB sell.  I'm sure 
     they (the big brewers) must be concerned because they are now spending 
     money to try to turn the tide.  Don't think I support theft of any 
     kind because I don't, but people have been neglecting to return kegs 
     for quite a while and hardly anything was said, much less special 
     legislation, until homebrewing became popular.  Fair play is one thing 
     but I have a feeling that something bigger than just kegs is involved. 
     Maybe I am just a little suspicious, but we all know how big business 
     and government scratch each other's backs.  I just think we shouldn't 
     let our guard down, after all homebrewing hasn't been legal that long 
     and it would be a shame to lose all we have gained because of other 
     peaple's greed.  Also realize that, by getting your kegs illegaly, you 
     are jepardizing our craft by giving the people who want to take it 
     away ammo to do so.  Brew Free, but live to brew another day!!!!!
     
     
     Wyatt
     Wyatt at latitude

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 16:43:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Can never think of a good subject line.

From: Steve Scampini <scampini at hp-and.an.hp.com>
>On another note, I recently measured my "33 quart" enamel brewpot...
>15.5 inches in diameter and 10 inches deep I keep coming up with more
>like 7.15 gallons rather than 8.25 gallons. 

I get (15.5/2)^2*pi*10*(2.54)^3/1000/3.78=8.2 gal, that is,
calculate vol in in^3   to cm^3 toL  to gal

From: dftraino at jersey.jersey.ingr.com (Doug Trainor) 

	I'm looking for advice on any good videos of ALL-GRAIN brewing. 
	I have the Michael Jackson Videos from Channel 13 series called 
	"The Beer Hunter". It's quite funny actually. He wears the same    
	clothes thru-out Europe and the US and drinks/eats like a knave. 
Since we don't want Jack to toot his own horn, I'll do it for him 
here.  He has such a video, but I haven't seen it.

From: terfintt at ttown.apci.com (Terri Terfinko) 
Subject: Lautertun Dead Space 

>Some all grain brewers seem to be concerned about the dead  
>space created under a false bottom mash/lautertun.  Why is this dead  
>space a concern? 

In my case (a poorly designed zapap-type, soon to be replaced, thank
you) it means that I need to use about 1 extra gallon of "sparge"
water, just to float the mash.  This water just means that much more
boiling in most cases.

From: WIRESULTS at WINET.mste.org 
>I have a question regarding sparge water. The water here is VERY low
>in minerals and is natually low pH (5.8) The viliage treats the water
>by addition of NaOH to raise the pH to 7.3 to keep from eating the 
>pipes.  
>Q: sparge water acidity is important to the leaching on tannins. Is 
>this adjusted pH going to be a problem or will the rest of the mash 
>offset it enough. 
>  other parts of the chemestry look like: 
>  Hardness 12; Alkalinity 22; solids 48; Na 1 ppm; Ca 5 ppm; chloride
>  0.4 ppm 
With alkalinity this low you shouldn't have much of a problem.  The
key is to monitor the pH (and taste) of the runoff, then you know for 
sure (for the next time).

From: tfirey at vt.edu 
>I've been learning the hard way to use already-boiled water for 
>sparging. 
Why?  Other than chlorine, which can be eliminated just by standing
for a bit when hot, why do this?
>Can anyone recommend a good method for storing water, especially  
>the large amounts needed for extract-brewing?  I'm thinking of  
>just using plastic containers (either water bottles or a cheapie  
>fermenting bucket) but I know plastic is susceptible to oxidation  
>(which is probably not a bad thing since the wort needs oxidized 
>before the yeast is pitched).  Can the water also be contaminated  
>by micro-organisms penetrating the plastic?  
What water do you mean?  If you are topping up a partial boil, just
use the fermenter you are going to top up.  (If this is what you 
meant by sparging, above, then it is good that you have pre-boiled
the water.)  If you really mean for sparging, you don't care about
microorganisms, they are about to be boiled, and oxygen isn't too bad
either since it is about to be driven off in the boil and there isn't
much there at that temperature anyway.

If you mean sparge water, why not an insulated cooler?  They are 
pretty cheap and will keep your sparge water hot.

Is this a nomenclature problem perpetrated on us by Charlie P?
Maybe someone with his book could create a "Mistakes in TNCJOH" FAQ?

Jeremy Bergsman  jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 17:35:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: uswnvg!vfrankl at uunet.uu.net (Victor Franklin)
Subject: brew king vs party pig

Hi all!
I am almost as new to this computer stuff as I am to homebrewing so
please, bear with me.  I would like to start kegging my beers but I live
in an apartment with no room for an extra refrig.  I need somewhere to
keep my food but I still want the ease of kegged beer.  I guess my first
question should be:
 "is kegged beer THAT much better that bottles?"(should I bother?)
Is there a difference in the flavor or is it just easier than bottles?
also, what are some of the pros and cons of using a beer king or party pig
type setup?  costs; ease of use... 
Which of the two do you think is better/worse?
Are they made just for temporary use or can i keep my beer in them like a
normal keg?
and how much room would they take up in my refrig? 
any other information on this subject would be much appreciated!
 
                         thank-you for your time and reply!

                                      Victor Franklin

          **** in pursuit of a better beer ****


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 22:47:04
From: lkbonham at beerlaw.win.net (Louis K. Bonham)
Subject: Beer keg crimes -- #3 (and last)

I've been responding to most mail on this topic privately,
but Mr. Dunn's recent public flame requires a public
response. 

>Tell us...does Texas law not provide for any distinction between the
>concepts of "rental" and "ownership"?

Of course it does.  Your question blithely ignores the
entire point of the inquiry -- is the transaction a rental
of the keg or a purchase/repurchase contract with a
liquidated damages clause? 

>Under the normal procedure of renting a keg, a deposit is made with the
>renter to ensure that the rented property is returned.  The deposit is not
>intended to represent the value of the keg in a transfer of ownership; it
>is intended to represent good faith that the keg will be returned to its
>rightful owner.

Really?  Care to elaborate on how this intent is manifested
in an oral contract where the subject is never raised
between the parties?  (Obviously, if the distributor tells
you its a rental, or you sign a form acknowledging that it
is, or even if it's written on a large sign at the
retailer's, then the point is clear. However, I've never
seen such procedures used with beer kegs, although they
certainly could be.)  And if the intent is not so
manifested by the parties, by whose yardstick are you
measuring the terms of the contract? 

>The retailers and distributors do not own the kegs, ergo they do not have
>any right to "pass legal title" for the keg to anyone else.

Wrongo.  I'll give you the standard law school hypothethical
used to teach first year students:  If you leave your watch
at the jewelers for repair, and his clerk mistakenly (or
deliberately) sells the watch to a customer, who owns the
watch?  (Under your stated analysis, you do, because
the jeweler never owned it and thus had no capacity
to pass legal title.)  The actual answer: while you have a
slam-dunk suit against the jeweler for breach of contract
and possibly conversion, the jeweler's apparent ability to
the consumer to pass legal title to the watch means that
the customer gets to keep it. It may seem counterintuitive,
but this is the law in virtually every American
jurisdiction. 

Putting this concept into play: does the beer retailer
have the apparent authority to sell kegs?  Unless there's
some clear indication to a reasonable consumer that he
does not, then he can pass title to those kegs that the
brewer chooses to entrust to him.

>How about the fact that renting property does not constitute a transfer of
>ownership?  Or are you of the Canter/Siegal net-school that "anything you
>can get away with (using appropriate lawsuits to intimidate justice) is
>righteous"?
[[snip]]
>And I'm not saying that "everything which is prosecutable is a crime";
>however I have a knee-jerk reaction to assertions that anything you can get
>away with under the law is OK.
>
>Stealing is stealing...even if you're a lawyer!

Mr. Dunn, I'll let your bile pass with no response other
than to suggest that you check my credentials (try the
Honigman Miller Schwartz and Cohn listing in
Martindale-Hubble's Texas/Houston section) before shooting
from the hip and casting dispersions as to my integrity.

Obviously, stealing is wrong, period.  (And, to answer
your questions, so is misuse of legal process, and so is
Canter and Siegal's misuse of the Net.) The question is who,
from a legal standpoint, owns kegs after a deposit has been
paid? This is a *very* unclear legal question.  I have
presented my theses on this point in the HBD with the goal of
exploring the issue, and in so doing perhaps educate and
stimulate discussion. (This has happened in spades, although
most of it has taken place in non-HBD correspondence.)
Simplistic hyperbole coupled with untoward insinuations are,
unfortunately, a fact of life on the Net, but they do little
to further analysis of the issue. 


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 19:57:21 +0930 (CST)
From: zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au (Speed Freak)
Subject: Apple Pie Ale

|> Has anybody used the spices that are used in a apple pie
|> (nutmeg, cinnamon, allspice, and apples) to make a apple
|> pie ale? I thought it might have a good taste but I am not
|> sure If I want to experiment with a full batch of something like
|> that.

I thought about brewing an apple pie ale before, with a recipe something like:

1.5 kg pale male extract syrup
1 kg pale DME
200 g crystal malt
1 cup brown sugar
1 cup molasses
25 g Fuggles hops (finishing)
5 g cinnamon
2 kg apple puree


However, my brother seemed to think that rather than an apple taste, this
would taste like cider mixed with beer, which we both find unpleasant.  If
anyone has any experience with apple beer it would be nice to hear from you,
but if not we will probably try it anyway :)

Zoz.
- --
                            zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 25 Jun 94 9:44:24 EDT
From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1 at columbia.edu>
Subject: bottle conditioning

> In HBD #1459  Alan_Deaton_at_CTC at relay.aar.com says:
>
> The headspace in your bottle is mostly gaseous. This makes it relatively
> easy to compress.  As your yeasties produce carbon dioxide, the pressure
> in your bottle increases.  When the pressure becomes too high, your
> yeast can no longer produce carbon dioxide( nowhere to put it ).  This
> means that if you leave no headspace in your bottles, the yeast won't be
> able to produce very much CO 2 before the pressure in the bottle causes
> them to become inactive.  If the headspace is too large, then the yeast
> can produce quantities of CO 2 inappropriately large for a 12 oz. bottle
> of beer.( this can cause excessive foaming upon opening and I have HEARD
> it can actually create bottle bombs )

Is this actually a known fact? I was assured by a microbiology professor 
who works on the sucrose metabolism pathway in S. cerevisiae that there 
is NO feedback inhibition by CO2 pressure on the fermentation enzymes.

Admittedly, this was an elevator-ride conversation, but she's been in the 
fermentation business for nearly 20 years.

Pierre

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 25 Jun 94 13:41:32 EDT
From: MontyE at aol.com
Subject: Recipe For Brewer's Bread?

Does anyone have a recipe for brewer's bread?  I'd like to try it, using the
yeast and other stuff left over in the bottling bucket.  It would be
interesting to wash down a sandwich made from brewer's bread with the same
homebrew which provided the yeast!

Thanks in advance,

Monty Edson
MontyE at aol.com



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 11:23:12
From: Jim Cook <JEC at hgipdx.usa.com>
Subject: Volume and Brew-it-yourself in PDX

> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 94 9:55:04 EDT
> From: Steve Scampini <scampini at hp-and.an.hp.com>
> Subject: 33 Quarts?

> On another note, I recently measured my "33 quart" enamel brewpot...
> 15.5 inches in diameter and 10 inches deep.  Basically, a simple
> truncated cylinder.  Based on the conversion factor of cubic feet to
> US gallons, I keep coming up with more like 7.15 gallons rather than
> 8.25 gallons.  Am I blowing what is an incredibly simple calculation 
> or is this like buying a Two by Four stud and finding it to be 1.5 X
> 3.5 inches?  

Well, Steve, my handy dandy HP-48 calculator says that the volume of 
a cylinder is pi*radius^2*height.  3.14159*(15.5/2)^2*10 = 1886.91  
So the kettle is 1886.91_in^3 which neatly converts to 32.67_qt or 
8.168_gal.

>In article <obrien.276.00517242 at ccrs.emr.ca>, obrien at ccrs.emr.ca 
>(Douglas J. O'Brien) wrote:
> >I remember reading posts regarding places in Canada where you 
> >choose the type of beer you want to brew, pick the ingredients, 
> >etc. and then brew it on their premises.  A couple of questions... 

> I have a number of friends who use U-Brew-it places (I brew at home)
> so I will try to pass on what I know.
> [snip!]
> Doug   <obrien at ccrs.emr.ca>

A Brew-it-yourself shop has recently opened up here in Portland.  You 
pick out a recipe, brew up a 12 gallon batch, leave it two weeks to 
ferment and return to bottle it and take it home.  Extract only 
although you can, of course, play a little with the recipes.  You can 
supply your own bottles, glass or PETE, or they'll sell them to you 
on the spot.  Cost is $80US to $105US per 96 pints (bottles not 
included).  Unlike what I've heard about the Canadian shops, they 
insist you sample it before your put it in the bottle!  They also have 
a case exchange program where you can swap a case with other brewers.

To maintain the commercial free spirit of the 'net I'll refrain from 
passing along their name but if you're in the Portland area, look for 
them at the corner of Glisan and 14th in Northwest. 

    Jim
    
















Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 11:39:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: malodah at pbgueuze.scrm2700.PacBell.COM (Martin Lodahl)
Subject: The American Brewers' Guild

In HOMEBREW Digest #1459 Steve Armbrust asked:

> I just got a brochure from the American Brewer's Guild on several 
> classes they offer. (The address is Davis, CA, and it mentions Dr. 
> Michael Lewis, so it might be affiliated with UC-Davis).

I don't believe so.  Lewis is, as far as I know, but I believe this
is a separate venture.

> They're offering a 2-day, weekend series ("Brewing Science for the 
> Advanced Homebrewer" and "Special Topics for Advanced Homebrewers") 
> that's actually being offered here in Portland, OR on Aug 27-28. Cost 
> for both days is $200.  
>
> Does anyone know anything about these classes?  Are they worth going to? 
> I've got a half-dozen or so all-grain batches under my belt.  Would the 
> classes be too advanced for me?  Too easy?
 
I took a number of courses from Dr. Lewis under the auspices of 
U. C. Davis Extension (I guess I'm a slow learner), and developed
some decided opinions in the matter.  I'm passing these on _as_
_opinions,_ and they pertain to the courses he taught on the same 
subjects under different auspices several years ago;  you can decide
for yourself how relevant they are to the present question.

Dr. Lewis has been the head of the only university-level brewing
program in the United States for over 30 years, during which time he's
also done consulting work, and is presently associated with a company
selling equipment and services to brewpubs and microbreweries.  Yet,
there's a depressing sameness to the beers his graduates produce: 
clean, competent, flavorless, boring.  He was a principal in a brewpub
in Davis that during its short life produced some of the most horrid
beer on the west coast, by nearly universal agreement.  I found those
facts difficult to reconcile until I took classes from him.  There isn't
space in an HBD item to go into detail, but the "broad brush" is that
in the commercial classes I took he made it very clear that he feels
Bud to be the pinnacle of beer's development, and craft-brewed beers to
be clearly lesser products, not to be taken seriously (except,
presumably, as income sources).  In a pub-brewing course, he repeatedly
stressed that on-premises brewing is "a marketing ploy," dismissing the
notion that there's any reason at all to drink the stuff when "better"
beer is available.  From that standpoint, his recommendations to
stick to extract beers and dry yeast make perfect sense;  if you're
going to be making swill anyway, you might as well do so the easy way. 
In those same commercial courses he never missed a chance to sneer at
homebrewers, which always drew squirms of discomfort from the students,
virtually all of whom were active or former homebrewers.  When I took
his advanced homebrewing course I was surprised to see that it wasn't
really all that advanced;  if you've done a few all-grain batches, I
suspect you'll feel your $200 was pretty much down the drain.  He talked
a bit about yeast culturing (nothing not in the Yeast FAQ, as I recall),
and rather more about mashing theory and practice, and there he put
forward as fact his notion of the uselessness of the protein rest.  He's
ridden that horse pretty hard for several years now, but such support
for it as there once was has largely evaporated, except among his grads.
Most of the class were unaware of the story behind it, and drank it up. 
He very strongly favors the single-temperature infusion, and if pressed 
can find something nice to say about the temperature program (step) mash,
but feels decoctions are a waste of time, unless your malt is
"inferior."  Others, of course, disagree.  The concept of styles also
came in for a drubbing, with the (deliberate) phenolic content of
Bavarian Weizens ridiculed as a "flaw."

You get the picture.  There was valuable material in the classes I took
from him, but mostly concerning the commercial aspects of the business. 
Nothing I got from him on the subject of brewing has been useful, and
some of it led me to make flavorless, boring beers, until I realized the
cause and adjusted my approach, but I was an experienced homebrewer when
I first began taking his classes.  I must say, however, that the same
amazing sense of self-assurance (he seems completely untroubled by
doubt) that allows him to be so attached to a set of opinions as to
label them as fact also makes him one of the most entertaining
instructors and storytellers you'll ever meet.  It may be worth the
money just to see the show.

So that's my opinion.  I have labeled it as such;  don't expect a
similar courtesy from him.

    - Martin

= Martin Lodahl		Systems Analyst, Capacity Planning, Pacific*Bell =
= malodah at pacbell.com      Sacramento, CA USA	            916.972.4821 =
=    If it's good for ancient Druids runnin' nekkid through the wuids,   =
=  Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!  (Unk.)   =

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 11:59:19 -0800
From: especkma at reed.edu (Erik Speckman)
Subject: CO2 scrubbing O2 out of the wort.

>> <during fermentation, oxidation is not an issue because of the CO2 <action,
>> which pushes out oxygen.
>>
>> Norm, I think that the reason it isn't a problem because of the yeast, which
>> will scavenge the O2.  Unless O2 is supersaturated, and is nucleates on the
>> CO2 bubbles, its not going to be affected by the CO2.  I think it's been
>> stated here before that solubility doesn't work that way - one solute is
>> independent of the others, disregarding reactions, pH changes, etc.

I don't agree.  CO2 may not "push" the Oxygen out of solution but it can
coax it out easily.

Let's just say the CO2 bubbles start out pure.  That is, they have no O2 in
them.  In this case there is a concentration gradient between the wort and
the bubble.  O2 will diffuse out of the wort into the bubble until
equilibrium is reached or until the bubble is released into the atmosphere.
In time, I imagine that this could scrub alot of O2 frome the fermenting
wort since CO2 is eveolved and O2 is prevented from rentering the wort by
the CO2 blanket that forms..




Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 13:44:02 -0800
From: especkma at reed.edu (Erik Speckman)
Subject: Carbonation and Head space.


Alan Deaton suggests that, given enough sugars, yeast will produce CO2
until it the pressure gets to high (sounds reasonable, elementary
thermodynamics)

He also goes on to say that air is more compressible than water (true) and
therefore a larger headspce allows the production of more CO2 (also true).
He then suggests that a lager head space will lead to a higher level of
carbonation.

If you think about this for a minute you will realise that head space
doesn't matter much if the limiting factor really is the effect of pressure
on yeast metabolism.  The volume of CO2 dissolved in the beer is the real
issue when discussing carbonation, not the total volume of CO2 in the
bottle.

The volume of CO2 in the beer depends solely on pressure of CO2 in the
bottle and temperature.  All headspace does is allow the bottle to absorb a
greater volume of CO2 for a given increase in pressure.  This will mean
that it takes *longer* to reach a given level of carbonation with a large
headspace.

I think reactant concentrations (%fermentable sugars) are at least as
important as product concentrations (CO2 pressure) in determining the level
of carbonation in the beer.  Fermentable sugar concentrations will effect
both the end point of ferementation and the rate of the fermentation.

In this case, larger headspace may actually lead to a lower level of
carbonation after reactant/product equalibrium is reached beacuse it
absorbs a larger volume of the total CO2 produced.

If people have questions I may be able to flesh things out a bit more in
e-mail, or perhaps someone would be willing to produce a model taking into
account all the variables here.



Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 18:31:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: Juan Madrigal <sardine at interaccess.com>
Subject: Re: What to do with a hard lump of malt extract.


I usually buy dry malt extract in bulk, and even though I keep it in an 
air tight container I still get lumps. It's no big deal, it dissolves 
right away. 

                             RDWHAHB,

                                      *****Efrain*****


Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 15:17:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Phil Brushaber <pbrush at netcom.com>
Subject: Full Boil and Chlorine


Dallas water is starting to get a little of that summer chlorine taste. I 
hate to go to the expense of using bottled water and am not too keen on 
the power and time it takes to pre-boil....

Shouldn't a full volume boil take care of my problem. Won't boiling the 
wort drive off the chlorine? And then if I am at full volume after the 
boil, and don't add any "new" water (from the faucet).... will that take 
care of my chlorine problem?

Phil Brushaber
Dallas, Texas

                                             pbrush at netcom.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Thu, 23 Jun 1994 18:40:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Phil Brushaber <pbrush at netcom.com>
Subject: More on Filters

Jack S. Writes:
 
> After much expense, trial, error and frustration, it has become clear that 
> all microns are not equal.

>The .5 micron pleated filter from the Filter Store does a much better job but 
>yeast and bacteria are not hard to find with a microscope in beer filtered 
>with it.
 
>So again my advice is, unless you can afford the real thing, this one can be 
>used with fair results and no fear of filtering out flavor components.

When I re-introduced this topic a few days ago... all I was looking for 
was a source for a 3 Micron cartridge filter. Since then a lot of discussion
has ensued. Jack S. in right when he says "all microns are not equal."
Interestingly I called the Filter Store yesterday looking for a 3 Micron. 
They said they made a .5, a 1, and a 5 micron filter. Further even THEY
suggested that all "microns are not equal". They said that another
dimension that one must consider is the EFFICIENCY of the filter, not
just the size of the filtering medium. They suggested that their
5 micron (with 99.5% efficiency) probably provided the filtering
results of most 3 microns....

BTW the lady who took my call on their 1-800 line seemed pretty
knowledgeable about homebrewing!

     Phil Brushaber - Dallas, Texas


                                             pbrush at netcom.com


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 25 Jun 94 23:07 CDT
From: arf at mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: chipping, filters, kegs

 
 >From: ruderman at esca.com (Curiouser and curiouser...)
 
 >Subject: Putting a hole in your ceramic-on-steel brew kettle
 
 >I saw the article in the current edition of "Brewing Techniques" describing 
 the Easy Masher device.  In the article, the author says that he installed 
 his first device in a enameled brewing kettle (I assume that is the same as a
 ceramic-on-steel type of kettle).  My question is what's the right way to put 
 a hole into one of these kettles so as not to chip/crack the ceramic coating? 
  
 
 The best procedure that I (the author) have found is to first drill a 1/8" 
 pilot hole, then follow this up with a 3/8" bit and drill about half way 
 through from the outside then finish the hole from the inside.  What little 
 chipping there is, is covered by the brass parts and presents no problem.
 
 >From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
 
 >>js..The .5 micron pleated filter from the Filter Store does a much better 
 job but yeast and bacteria are not hard to find with a microscope in beer 
 filtered >with it.
 
 >Not sure about microscopes, but the 5 micron pleated high efficiency cart
 sold by the filter store results in a polished, clear product. If 5 works
 this good, I cant imagine ever using a smaller one.
 
 You need to expand your imagination a little.  For one thing, one might be 
 interested in flora and fauna free beer, viz. pasturized.
 
 Secondly, I have never used the 5 micron unit but the .5 does not leave a 
 totally clear beer so I can only assume that the 5 would be even less so.
 
 You have what you like and I have what I like but it would be interesting if 
 someone who had both would do a comparison.  I did this on the string wound 
 and on the .5 pleated and had a lot of fun but I have a hard time justifying 
 buying something just to prove a point.
 
 The way I tested them was to disolve a tbs of corn starch in a gallon of 
 water and run this though various filters and compare the filtrate.  Very 
 interesting.
 
 >From: wrighda at wlgore.com
 >I saw an ad in Zymurgy about used 5-gallon kegs at St. Patricks of Texas.
 Is anyone familiar with the kegs they sell? ...
 
 Don't know anything about the 5 gal but I bought two 10 gal kegs and there 
 were in mint condition.
 
 >From: Jack St Clair <Jack_St_Clair at ccm.co.intel.com>
 >Subject: Beer Kegs in Portland
  
 >    I called Winkler Scrap Metal this morning and they will sell their
      kegs at $22.00 for one and will negotiate a deal for quantities of
      more than one.
 
 I guess there are some advantages in living in a non-beer oriented part of 
 the world.
 
 I paid $5 for them at a scrap yard in Chicago and the only reason they were 
 that much is because I am a nice guy.  He thought I wanted two for $5 and 
 just before agreeing to it I told him I had $5 each in mind.
 
 js
 
 

Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 25 Jun 1994 11:21:54 -0800
From: Bluebeard <FSERN at aurora.alaska.edu>
Subject: Brewers Mystery Meat

Subject: Brewers Mystery Meat 
 
Who has the foggiest what's in the extracts (canned, bagged, dried,
or drummed) we use?  The thing I spend the most money on, I know
the least about.  We have tons of detailed data - whole books, on
yeast, hops, brewing processes, beer styles, etc. but next to
nothing on the biggest single determinant of what we get at the end
of our labors.  Brewing Techniques and Zymurgy should have long
articles in every issue containing detailed analyses of who puts
what in their extracts and what that means to the brewer.  They
have next to nothing.  Where are the Fix, Busch, Schmidling
equivalents with flames on the subject?  Talk about threads..we
should have ropes on the subject of what is in extracts.  FAQ's all
over the place!  We have reams of detail on metabolic processes of
individual yeast strains; then we put it into wort made primarily
of malt extract that we know nothing about.  Extract users are
condemned to a life of wandering from trial to error to trial when
by definition extractors are seeking the shortest reasonable route
to crafting good beer.  How do we solve it?  We have to convince
the producers that it is in their economic interest to obtain and
publish the data.  We have to get Zymurgy and Brewing Techniques
writers interested.  Producers have to realize that a large part of
the recent increase in interest in "personal brewing" is derived
from an increase in objective data about the sport and the
reasonable assurance of predictable, repeatable results.  So who
will be the first to be proud enough of their product to think that
telling you and me exactly what is in it will make us want to buy
it?  I've heard that Briess is good...but can my store owner tell
me how much and what kind of crystal is in it and what I can expect
out of it? Not!  I've heard DME is better suited to some brews than
others...is there data? Not!  I've heard the Belgian syrups are
best and that their Australian cousins buy lots of ad space (every
back cover) but produce swill...come on Aussies put up yer dukes
and defend yoursales...with data.  And the inventors of adjuncts;
the Brits, M&F, etc...I've heard they're full of corn.  Flames
invited - we need something to generate combustion and break the
data block.
 
Fred Nolke
 



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 26 Jun 1994 01:13:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dodger Posey <dodger at quack.kfu.com>
Subject: Pepper Beer

Greetings, Beer-Lovers...
Having just completed a snack of IPA and nachos w/HOT sauce,
I've decided to make a chili pepper beer. But not just any
pepper beer, this will be...Habanero Beer. 
The HOT Sauce was Melinda's Original Habanero Pepper Sauce,
XXXXtra Reserve (800-886-6354 , no connection, blah blah).
Very hot, but not vinegary tasting like many sauces.

Any ideas here?  I've had Cave Creek Chili Beer (vg, IMO)
and it contains what looks like a pale ale brew with a 
jalapeno dropped in and capped.  Does the pepper taste
just...get absorbed into the beer?

OK, BUT, peppers are rated using Scoville Units. Jalapeno
peppers (the hottest variety) are rated at 5000 S.U.  The 
Habanero is rated at <gulp> 200,000-300,000 S.U., making
it the hottest pepper in the world. (These facts are from 
the back of the Melinda's bottle)

a) what should I use as a base brew? hops?
b) how should I sanitize the peppers? or at all?
c) when should they be added? bottling, steeping?
d) should I put emergency instructions on the bottle?

Thanks in advance for any sage advise offered.
Dodger Posey
dodger at quack.kfu.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 13:33:58 -0500 (CDT)
From: msh at tellabs.com
Subject: Hangovers

My recipe for hangover avoidance is as follows:

1) Take a vitamin B12 before drinking.
2) Before going to bed, take 2 or 3 ibuprofen tabs and drink lots of water.
3) If you really are serious about avoiding problems, take a shower before 
   bedtime. During the night your poor body is trying to rid itself of the
   toxins you have introduced, and it will have an easier time of it if it
   has nice and clean pores to blow stuff out of.

Cheers and Beers,

Mike Horning


Return to table of contents


Date: Sat, 25 Jun 94 22:56:00 -0640
From: bill.rust at travel.com (Bill Rust)
Subject: Attention Cork Soakers:


Just a brief mead-related question...

Anyone out there in Brewing Land ever re-use corks.  I've got one of those
cork removers with the two blades that slip down the sides of the cork and
remove it undamaged.  Well, I guess I'm kink of a packrat, but I saved a lot
of corks over the years.  I was wondering if I could soak the corks in
sulfite, or campden, or a chloride solution (or whatever) and re-use the
corks.

Anyone ever read about off flavors or infections as a result of this?  Or,
perhaps, would the corks be too old to rehydrate?

Cheers!

 +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | "The face of a child can say it all, especially  |      BILL RUST       |
 | the mouth part of the face.                      |   Systems Analyst    |
 |                                                  |                      |
 |                                                  |       --=_=--        |
 |                                                  |                      |
 | JACK HANDEY                                      |     Shiloh, IL       |
 | Deep Thoughts                                    | bill.rust at travel.com |
 +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
- ---
 ~ SPEED 1.40 #1651 ~



Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 26 Jun 1994 18:29:19 -0500
From: Mike Zentner <zentner at ecn.purdue.edu>
Subject: Extract Lumps


I hit on something to get rid of this "Brick Malt" problem.  I put the stuff
in the double boiler and just let it sit for quite a while, stirring once in
a while.  This way, there is no scorching on the bottom of the pan, and it
will dissolve within a couple of hours.  I usually use the result to make
sterile wort, althogh there's no reason not to brew with it...

Mike Zentner

Return to table of contents


Date: Sun, 26 Jun 94 23:43:09 EDT
From: JameyJay at aol.com
Subject: Aquarium pump aeration

I made two batches this weekend and attempted to 
aerate each with a K-Mart blue light special aquarium
pump ($4.96). 

In theory, it seemed like a good, simple idea to aerate
wort. In practice, the pump managed to bubble the wort
out the top in two minutes even in a 7 gallon fermenter.

I'm considering using a light dimmer switch to more 
precisely control the aeration level on the pump.

Has anyone else used this method in any form who 
would be willing to share their experiences?

Jamey Johns
JameyJay at aol.com 


Return to table of contents

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1460, 06/27/94