FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  hops+boilDurations/lager/evaporation/stovetops/rubberkegs/freezerCycling/BoilSludge (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Lewis classes, filters (Bob Jones)
  How to? -- Cold Break (Jack Skeels)
  Homebrew at work (BrewerBob)
  Ugly Siphon Hoses? (David Rodger)
  Brewferm Diablo Conditioning (Steve Peters)
  Cleaning stovetops/ (Philip Gravel)
  HELP!! (Rodney Dale Moore)
  Answers/Clogged wort filter (Philip Gravel)
  Cans, bottles, & kegs (gahaasx0)
  Hydrometer (Lee Hiers)
  Re: Lagering in a Cornelius keg (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
  Chilling and replies (David Draper)
  RE: Hop pellets & sludge! (Tel +44 784 443167)
  clogged funnel filter ("McCaw, Mike")
  Wyeast (fischer)
  pectin haze and fruit beers (RAYMUN)
  strawberry beer ("Dana S. Cummings")
  yeast culturing (Bob Monroe)
  Homebrew Digest #1470 (July 08 (BREWS)
  MASH MIXING (BREWS)
  A couple of requests/questions/headspace (Jay Weissler)
  Bud bashing, sense of humor (Jeff Benjamin)
  Cool beer, Warm Apartment... ("Ronald E. Ostiguy")
  Filtering Wort (Steve Scampini)
  Carbonation (Steve Scampini)
  Cheap wort cooling wrapup ("Bill Knecht")
  Re: Help me make a strawberry beer ("Mark B. Alston")
  micro beers from megas (Sean MacLennan)
  Motorized Masher Update (of sorts) (Don Put)
  Cleansers (berkun)


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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 7 Jul 94 20:15:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: hops+boilDurations/lager/evaporation/stovetops/rubberkegs/freezerCycling/BoilSludge

Todd writes:
>Hop Characteristics Imparted by Different Boil Durations.
>
>                 60 min.  +20-40 min.   10-15 min.   up to 5 min   Dry
>Bitterness	Primary        Some         Little       Little         Little
>Flavor          Some          Primary       Some       Little         Lots
>Back Aroma    Little          Little         Primary     Some         Lots
>Front Aroma    Little         Little          Some       Primary      Primary

In my experience, the primary flavor contribution is in the 10-20 min range.
Boiling hops longer than 20 minutes seems to make them contribute virtually
no flavor.  Also, I'm curious as to the meaning of back aroma and front
aroma.  Again, in my experience, I've found little aroma is imparted from
hops boiled any longer than 5 minutes.  The aromatics gained from dryhopping,
to me, seem much more full and complex than those from very short (5min to
0min) boils.  I would have assembled the table like this:

               15-90 min.     10-15 min.   0-5 min     Dry
Bitterness     Primary        Some         Little      None
Flavor         Some           Primary      Some        Little
Aroma          None           Little       Primary     Primary

What I usually do is split up my target IBUs between the boil and flavor
hops.  Usually, if I'm doing something like an American Pale Ale, I'll
shoot for 40 IBUs -- 35 from the boil hops and 5 from the flavor hops.
Since starting to dryhop, I've stopped adding aroma hops in the kettle
and simply rely on dryhopping for aroma.  As for calculating approximate
IBUs, I use Rager's formulas, but add 10% if I use a hop bag (which is
always) and 10% more if I'm using whole hops or plugs in place of pellets.

**********
Bob writes:
>I need a little help in the procedure for doing a Lager- in a Cornelius Keg.
<snip>
>Prepare wort according to normal methods- begin primary ferment using lager
>yeast in "normal, i.e., room temperatures- about 75 F, after a day or so-
>transfer to fridge temps. after fermentation slows to a stop- lager for
>several weeks more- then bottle/keg as normal- using residual yeast in
>suspension- at room temps again for a week or two- then cool for drinking--  

That's the basic "shortcut" way to make a lager and that's the way I did my
last one (I'm primarly an ale brewer).  However, some experienced judges
pointed out some subtle esters in the beer (a Traditional Bock).  I suspect
that they were created during the initial "warm" ferment at 60-65F.  I was
using Wyeast #2308 (Munich).  There are some lager yeasts that produce low
levels of esters even in the low 60's, so maybe you can get by with the
procedure you proposed with one of these yeasts (sorry, I don't have much
experience with lager yeasts, so I can't suggest strains).  The traditional
way to do a lager is to make a big (2 liter or larger) starter in the 70's,
let it ferment out, slowly cool the starter into the mid 50's, pour off the
spent wort, cool your main wort to the same temperature, pitch the yeast.
This will take longer to start than the "shortcut" way, but will make the
lager the least fruity.  Gradual temperature changes are important for the
yeast (in the starter AND in the main wort) so the yeast are not temperature
shocked -- which will make them settle out and make it hard for you to
get them back to work.  Regarding blowoff, if you ferment in the 50's you
would have to have some kind of miracle yeast to create blowoff.  Time?
Well, each yeast will work a little differently and the size of the starter
will make a *big* difference too.  With a small starter, fermentation at
45F can take six to eight weeks.  With a large starter, it might ferment-out
in two.  Watch the airlock and take a reasonable amount of hydrometer
readings when the airlock indicates that the beer might be done.

********
Terry writes:
>gallons to allow for the evaporation during boil.  When I calculate 
>recipes and extraction points for all grain batches, should I use 
>the  6.5 or 5 gallon number?

You should do the calculations with the values taken at the same time.
If you got an SG of 1050 at 5 gallons, then you should do your calculations
with these numbers.  Think about it... what probably had was 6.5 gallons
of wort at 1040.  When you boil off water, your SG goes up.  Now, when you
should do the measurement depends on what you want to measure.  If you
want to know how well your mash/lauter went, then measure the volume and
SG of your runnings (don't forget to stir to mix the thick first runnings
with the thin final runnings).  If you want to know what your total "system"
efficiency was (after taking away the lost wort trapped in the hops and
trub), then take post-boil readings.

*********
KWH writes:
>Sometime during brewing last weekend, I scorched my stovetop beyond 
> recognition in the area between the two burners that my 33qt pot sets on.  

If the paint is discolored, then you're out of luck, but usually that's not
the case -- the paint on stovetops is usually baked-on enamel.  I've had
luck removing burnt-on gunk by spraying Fantastic or 409 on the gunk and then
letting it sit for 12 hours or so.  Then I remove what gunk I can with
elbow grease and apply more spray for another soak.

Bob says that you can get replacement tops from appliance repair placed.
Indeed.  They cost about $100.  Which brings up an interesting point...
we homebrewers are always building all kinds of time-saving devices.
If you've got an extra $100 lying around, maybe getting a stovetop dedicated
to brewing is the answer.  It takes me a good 20 minutes just to get all
my equipment out to brew.  What's another 2 minutes to throw my brewing
stovetop onto the stove?  After use, just take it outside and hose it off.
It doesn't even need to be sanitized ;^).

********
John asks about converting rubber-bottomed kegs to kettles.

I recommend you keep this keg for fermentation and get a non-rubber-coated
one for turning into a kettle.  Kelly suggested using a torch to remove
the rubber -- I'd advise against that.  I used a propane torch to remove
labels from a Cornelius keg and a spot where I applied too much heat
discolored and became brittle.  This is what happens to Stainless when you
heat it too much.

*************
Link writes:
>My question is whether using the Air-Stat to maintain 
>temperatures near 70 will do any damage to the freezer, 
>since it will be operating so far from its design point.
>For instance, will it cycle excessively.

Nope.  It will cycle less frequently than your freezer normally would
(unless you're always peeking) because the temperature differential
between the room and the inside is a LOT smaller for our brewing
purposes than when it is used for a freezer.  Fear not!

*********
Jeff writes:
>OK so it's not sludge but it looks like it.  Here's my problem:
>After I'm done boiling my extract based wort for about an hour, I filter
>the wort into the fermenter.

Using a hop bag will reduce the amount of sludge significantly, but the
filter will still clog with trub and whatever pellets get through the hop
bag.  I just removed the filter from the funnel and leave the last quart
of wort in the kettle.  Do you get the feeling that the manufacturers
of many brewing items don't brew?

Al.

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Date: Thu, 07 Jul 1994 13:33:58 +0900
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Lewis classes, filters

On the topic of M. Lewis's newly announced classes. I hear that M. Lewis is
the financer of these classes and Ashton Lewis and others will actually be
teaching the classes. I would highly recommend these classes is Ashton is
teaching them (he IS NOT related to M. Lewis).

During Ed Busch's talk at the conference on filters, he pointed out that not
all particles to be filtered are the same. Take yeast, it may be larger than
 .5um but it is very fluid and can be squeeezed through a very small hole
under pressure. He then had a graphic example where he formed his fingers
into a circle and showed that you could not push a tennis ball through, but
you could push a zip lock bag of water through. The zip lock bag of water
would seem to be a bigger particle. This may account for some of the mixed
results that we see from .5um filters. I would also expect the flow rate and
pressure to affect the number of cells that make it through. Ed showed SEM
pictures of DE and how the complex paths and rough edges of the diatoms
would snag more yeast cells than might be possible with a sheet filter. 

DE seems a bit of a pain to use as a homebrewer, has anyone out there used
it? If so please tell us all about your experiences.

Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 16:44 EST
From: Jack Skeels <0004310587 at mcimail.com>
Subject: How to? -- Cold Break

I think that I'm doing it right, but just don't see it happening!

I did my first all-grain batch, and saw the hot break form in the boiling
wort.  I have a converted keg for a boiler and an immersion chiller.

When I was near completion, I added 1/2 tsp of kettle coagulant, and then my
wort chiller a while later.  I let the hops steep for a few minutes, and
then cooled the wort to about 70F.

I then racked it into my fermenter, but wasn't really able to see where I
was having any real grunge left, except for the hops.  What does cold break
look like, am I getting any, and how do I get my cool wort out without
getting the cold break too?

Thanks to any and all who can reveal this mystery to me!

Jack Skeels
JSKEELS at MCIMAIL.COM

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Date: Thu, 07 Jul 94 20:07:17 EDT
From: BrewerBob at aol.com
Subject: Homebrew at work

> David Allison asked some questions about making homebrew at work for the
employees to drink.

The "law" that states an individual may brew only 100 gallons a year (200 per
multiple adult household) is a tax law, not a permission-to- brew law. The
purpose of that law is to get the FET on beer brewed in the US! Individual
states have their own laws on homebrewing. Some do not allow it, regardless
of what the federal government may say about taxes. California does allow
home brewing.

In the strictest sense, the homebrew you make is for the personal consumption
of the brewer and his/her immediate family. You really shouldn't even give a
bottle to your neighbor! The contest are legal in as much as it is legal to
send samples of untaxed beer to someone for ANALYSIS!

My recommendation is that you contact the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobbaco
and Firearms) and ask them how to register in order to pay the required tax
on the beer that is brewed at the company. The tax is only $7 per barrel on
the first 60,000 barrels. On 200 gallons, that would be about $45. There may
be a minimum or an annual fee or something, I don't know.

To simply brew an alcoholic beverage at work and consume it there with no
notification and payment of taxes due would probably constitute a felony. It
may not be worth the effort! Buy the micro brew and have a good time!

BrewerBob at aol.com


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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 20:14:46 -0400 (ADT)
From: David Rodger <drodger at access.digex.net>
Subject: Ugly Siphon Hoses?

Hi -

I'm a relatively new brewer (posted a few weeks ago with beginner's 
technique questions) and now I've got an equipment question.

I've brewed 6 batches, all extract, and after the fifth one, my racking 
hose was completely cloudy.  (It didn't start out that way, and it wasn't 
cloudy while I was using it for the 5th batch...)  My guess is that it 
got so cloudy while sitting in a bucket of chlorine bleach solution for a 
week.

So, I went out and bought a new hose, from my local hardware store 
(brewer's store was closed... :)  It started out clear, and it was 
plumbing-hose, so I figured I'd be fine.  This time, I brewed a batch, 
rinsed it with chlorine bleach, then rinsed w/hot water, then let sit in 
a bucket of plain water.  THis was a week ago.  Today, in preparation to 
bottle that 6th batch, I pulled out the hose; it's *completely* cloudy.

So I have several questions:

1. How long do hoses last?
2. How do you store them?
3. How do you clean them?
4. Can I use them even if they're cloudy?

Thanks for any and all advice on this.

 - Dave

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
David Rodger
drodger at access.digex.net

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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 17:40:40 -0700
From: Steve Peters <stevep at pcx.ncd.com>
Subject: Brewferm Diablo Conditioning

I recently brewed up a batch of Brewferm's Diablo extract with ingredients as
follows:

 2 cans brewferm diablo hopped extract
 2 lbs turbino sugar
 1/2 oz saaz pellets in the last 2 minutes of the boil
 wyeast belgian ale yeast

I'm an experienced homebrewer and I know to ignore the instructions that come
under the lid of the extract cans, but...
I happened to be reading the instructions and they recommend conditioning the
beer for 6-8 weeks!  6-8 weeks is a long time, and I don't have ideal storage
conditions in my apartment.

 So the question is:

1) has anyone brewed with the diablo extract before, if so, was it
significantly better after 6-8 weeks?
2) is there any difference between conditioning in a secondary, and
conditioning in the bottle?

In other news, as an experiment I poured a small part of the cooled wort into
another fermenter and pitched the much-maligned dry yeast pack from under the
lid in there to see what would happen and compare it to the beer fermented with
wyeast belgian.  So far I've tasted the beer fermented with the dry yeast, and
it is quite good.  I can't wait to see what I will get out of the wyeast
fermenter!





- -- 
Steve Peters
stevep at pcx.ncd.com
Sustaining Engineering and Support
Network Computing Devices

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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 19:51 CDT
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Cleaning stovetops/

===> Kirk Harralson writes:

>Sometime during brewing last weekend, I scorched my stovetop beyond 
>recognition in the area between the two burners that my 33qt pot sets on.  
>I tried a few different cleaners on it - 409, softscrub, etc., but it 
>didn't budge.  I looked through the index of old digests and got a few 
>suggestions, including using oven cleaner or baking soda.  Does anybody 
>have any foolproof methods that could get me out of the dog house? 

Oven cleaner has worked for me.  Also, it's a *real* good idea to clean up
any boilover or spill right after it happens.  It may interrupt the brewing
schedule, but it beats the alternative of cleaning up a scorched stovetop.

===> About headspace and carbonation, Dave Suurballe said:

>Maybe the low-fills are NOT overcarbonated.  Maybe you just thought they were
>for some reason.  A low-fill makes more noise when you open it, because there
>is a lot more gas that has to escape.  I think a natural reaction to the
>bigger hiss is to assume that this bottle is way gassier.

I think you hit the nail on the head, Dave.  To the extent that people judge
the degree of carbonation by the PFFFFFT which occurs when a bottle is opened,
a bottle with more headspace will give a more vigorous hiss when the bottlecap
it popped than one with less headspace.

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel                                 pgravel at mcs.com

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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 21:23:51 -0400
From: Rodney Dale Moore <moore at cs.odu.edu>
Subject: HELP!!


What causes the brew to stop fermenting after only 12hrs after adding the 
yeast? I have started the yeast and oxygenated the wort, and intially 
it was fermenting, now I see no activity please help me save my brew

Thanx in advance
moore at cs.odu.edu

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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 20:32 CDT
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Answers/Clogged wort filter

===> Regard more answers in HBD, John Faulks writes:

>I would like to amplify a note from yesterday re the number of private 
>email answers.
>
>For example, there are a number of requests for good beer places in 
>this or that location. OK, so private email is good for saving 
>bandwidth, but I suggest that as a courtesy, the questioner should 
>post some highlight summary.
>
>The same approach should be used when asking for help/fixes/cures. 
>Please post a summary of what worked for you. Some HBDers do it now 
>and I find those postings the most useful.

I wholeheartedly agree.  Many of us HBD readers would also benefit if
the person requesting the advice would post a summary of the posts and
e-mail received.  John Bloomberg's summary on warm weather brewing
(HBD #1467) is an excellent example IMHO.  Thanks, John.  :-)

===> Jeff Donnelly writes:

>After I'm done boiling my extract based wort for about an hour, I filter
>the wort into the fermenter.  Since I started using my new funnel with the
>built in filter, it clogs 9 or 10 times per 5 gallon batch.  The filter
>is fairly small and the "clog" is a very fine impenetrable goop.  I have
>to stop pooring, rinse the filter and continue.  Besides the annoyance
>of this process I don't like chancing contamination so often.
>Other information:
>	I use both bittering and hop pellots, the latter added in the
>	 last 5 minutes of boil.
>	I cool the wort before filtering
>	I add grains(in bag) until just before the water boils
>
>What is this stuff I'm filtering out and is it something I want to
>    keep or get rid of?

The stuff you are filtering is a combination of hop pellet residue and
hot and cold break (coagulated proteins).  Rather than filtering the wort
into the fermenter, you might try siphoning it.  First let the sludge 
settle to the bottom of the pot.  The use a racking cane to wort into
the fermenter.  By keeping the end of the cane 1/2 to 1" below the surface
of the wort, and continuously moving it down as the wort level drops, you
can minimized the amount of sludge carried over into the fermenter.  I
find that a curved (J-shaped) racking cane works better than a straight
cane.  When a straight cane is used, flexible tubing tends to pinch where
it bends over thus breaking the siphon. 

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel                                 pgravel at mcs.com

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Date: Thu, 07 Jul 94 10:50:09 mdt
From: gahaasx0 at ccmail.wcc.com
Subject: Cans, bottles, & kegs

          To all you learned speakers & writers of legalese:
          
          Is a deposit on a bottle or can different than a keg? 
          
          Let's assume a consumer purchases a bottled or 
          canned beverage and is required to pay a refundable 
          container deposit as well.  Assume further that 
          subsequent to purchase, the container is broken or 
          crushed before, during or after the course of drinking, 
          perhaps by the purchaser, or perhaps not.    
          
          By law, must the beverage purchaser contact the beverage 
          (and container) maker (or distributor) to inform them 
          that they will not be returning the container since 
          it is broken/crushed, and must the beverage purchaser 
          remit the replacment cost of crushed/broken container to 
          the maker (or distributor) of the beverage?  Does it 
          matter how, why or by whom the container was 
          crushed/broke?
          
          Do these questions have any bearing on kegs?
          
          Things that make you go HHMMmmmm.....
          
          

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Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 23:27 EST
From: Lee Hiers <0006701840 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Hydrometer

Hello Fellow Fermenters:

I just finished brewing my second batch on which I took hydrometer readings.

The first was 6 pounds Williams American Light syrup with 1 pound of crystal
malt steeped before the boil started.  The SG  at  82 degrees was 1.045, which
corrects to 1.048 or so at 60 degrees.  

The second batch was 3.3 pounds of M&F Light syrup, 2.5 pounds of Laaglander
Extra Light dry extract, again with 1 pound of crystal malt.  The SG  at  78
degrees was 1.060, which corrects to 1.062 at 60 degrees.

Do these readings look like they're in the ballpark?  To me they look high.
I checked the hydrometer with straight water, and got 1.000.  I suppose
the hydrometer could be way off, but it would still be good for determining
when fermentation is complete.  Although it would be nice to know if the 
absolute readings were close or not.

Thanks,

Lee Hiers
aa4ga at mcimail.com

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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 16:59:11 EST
From: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Lagering in a Cornelius keg
Full-Name: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen

RobertS735 at aol.com wrote:

* Is this the process- and please offer corrections...
* Prepare wort according to normal methods- begin primary ferment using lager
* yeast in "normal, i.e., room temperatures- about 75 F, after a day or so-
* transfer to fridge temps. after fermentation slows to a stop- lager for
* several weeks more- then bottle/keg as normal- using residual yeast in
* suspension- at room temps again for a week or two- then cool for drinking--  

Well ..  since I complain about people not answering my posts, 
and we seem to want more answers in general ...  this is what 
info I have garnered (from a post on r.c.brewing by Jon Austin
edited somewhat): 

* Pitch  at 65F, once fermentation has started - lower temp 4F per 
day until at primary fermentation temp

* Primary: 47F-50F, depends on yeast really. Rack after about 4 
days of primary.

* Secondary: Same (47F-50F). Typically takes 14 days to full 
fermentation.

* Diacetyl Rest: Once fermentation has basically completed 
raise the temp to ~65F for 48 hours. This is supposed to reduce 
the diacetyl.

* Lagering: Lower temp 3F per day until in the 32F-38F range.  
32F-38F for weeks.  The stronger the brew, the longer the 
lagering.

I think some of his cooling times are a little on the cautious 
side, he would spend most of his time cooling rather than 
fermenting!  

He did say he force carbonated .. what I want to know is:

"Is the yeast active enought to carbonate the brew at lagering 
temps if primed with appropriate amounts of fermentables?" 

I plan to lager in bottles, so someone else told me to just raise 
the temp of the bottles will I thought the carbonation was good 
enough (about a week) and then drop to lager temps.  

I suppose the implication of this is that the yeast is not active
enough to carbonate the lager at lagering temps ... 

Any feedback appreciated

Ta muchly

Aidan

- --
Aidan Heerdegen				
e-mail: aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au


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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 17:59:01 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au>
Subject: Chilling and replies

Dear Friends, another technique for chilling wort was brought to my
attention by another brewer right here at Macquarie, fellow by name of
Daniel Sattel.  This addresses Bill Knecht's question. Go ahead and freeze
water in whatever vessels you like, then chuck those blocks of ice into
the water with which you fill your laundry sink, so that you are sitting
your brewkettle in colder water than what you get out of the tap.  Seems
to work pretty well.

Re: Replying to the digest, I say hearken to the sage counsel offered by
John DeCarlo in today's digest, which also contained three fundamentally
identical responses to Terri Terfinko's question about extraction rates,
when the problem turned out to be a fairly simple math error. Well put,
John, seems impossible for it to have been better said.

I also have been forced to adhere to Jeff Renner's policy of paraphrasing
posts to which I respond in the digest, rather than reprinting excerpts,
because my mail software is cumbersome when trying to do that. So if I got
anyone's identity wrong above, I apologize!

Cheers, Dave in Sydney
- -- 
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper			School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University
ddraper at laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au	NSW 2109 Sydney, Australia
Fax: +61-2-805-8428		Voice: +61-2-805-8347

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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 09:22:05 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: RE: Hop pellets & sludge!


 
     Somebody mentioned a sludge that was clogging their
filter as a result of using hop pellets. A book I read
said that a friend of the author's used some squares of
muslin cloth in the boil. The gunge from the pellets
gets stuck to the cloth and the cloth can be washed for
re-use. The author stated that he had not tried it to
confirm this.
 
Cheers,
 
     Brian


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Date: Thu, 07 Jul 94 14:42:00 PDT
From: "McCaw, Mike" <mccaw at wdni.com>
Subject: clogged funnel filter


Jeff Donnelly writes about his funnel filter clogging up.  I had the same 
problems when I used a similar setup, and there are a couple of measures you 
can take.
1. the filter disks come in at least two meshes.  Get the coarsest one. 
 Your aim is to keep hop cones, hunks of ginger, etc out of the fermenter. 
 Fine stuff will settle with the trub and yeast.

2. get a long handled serving spoon and sterilize it.  The best way to do 
this is to wrap it in aluminum foil and bake it in the oven at 300 deg for 
an hour.  You can do this ahead of time, so it will be cool when you need 
it.  Put the spoon in the funnel when you start pouring wort.  Whenever the 
funnel shows signs of clogging, scrape off the filter disk with the spoon. 
 Works like a charm.

By the way, I found that two ounces of whole hops would swell up into more 
volume than the funnel could hold, so the spoon comes in handy for pressing 
the liquid out of the hops and then removing them from the funnel halfway 
through the transfer .

Mike McCaw  mccaw  at  wdni.com

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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 03:15:11 -0700
From: fischer <kfischer at ucssun1.sdsu.edu>
Subject: Wyeast

  Howdy,

What exactly is "Wyeast?"  Every recipe I see says "used
Wyeast #xxxxx"  I have several mail order catalogues,
and they don't sell it.  Anyone know where I can get it?

Thanks
Keith
kfischer at ucssun1.sdsu.edu

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Date: Fri, 08 Jul 1994 07:21:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: RAYMUN at delphi.com
Subject: pectin haze and fruit beers


I have read some back issues of HBD about pectin haze problems.  
I can see where is can happen when you boil fruit.  
Some people have said that it can happen when you steep the fruit 
at the end of boiling.
 
How can pectin haze be combated? Is there a cure for it and 
if so what is it called and how do you use it?
 
Also when is the best time to add fruit to a brew? 
Into primary? or Secondary?  If secondary, how should 
I pasterize the fruit?
 
Raymun at delphi.com

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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 08:14:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dana S. Cummings" <dcumming at moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: strawberry beer

> HOMEBREW Digest #1470		             Fri 08 July 1994
> 
> Date: Thu, 07 Jul 1994 11:06:46 -0400 (EDT)
> From: RAYMUN at delphi.com
> Subject: Help me make a strawberry beer
> 
> I am looking at brewing a strawberry beer, and could any of you throw in
> your 2 cents?
>  
> Are there any drawbacks to using strawberries?  I have use raspberries with
> no problems.
>  
I recently made a seven gallon batch of a 4# strawberry / 1.5 # raspberry 
ale using John Bull light extract and Belgian ale yeast.  The problem was 
that what started out as light color low gravity beer is pretty cidery 
from the fermentation of the strawberries.  I presume it to be strawberry 
sugar because I have also used razb's with no problem.  Solution: I'm not 
sure.  The strawberry flavor is pretty delicate IMHO and the addition of 
lots of crystal malt for body may cover the fruit flavor.  After this 
funky experiment ( I may lose all the beer ) I am considering investing 
in a small scale fermenter to do inexpensive research.  Don't let my 
experience daunt you, I know that it can be done successfully:  I just 
supplied you with a don't do it this way.  


Dana Cummings
dcumming at moose.uvm.edu

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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 09:07:47 -0400
From: Bob Monroe <monroeb at uicc.com>
Subject: yeast culturing

For what it's worth, I would like to relate an experience I had recently 
with yeast re-culturing.

I am an all-grain brewer who tried to save a few bucks by re-pitching
#1007 german ale yeast from a previous batch into a new batch.
I had prepared a basic starter wort and added the sediment from a bottle
of ale which was fermented with an original culture of Wyeast #1007
yeast. After approximately 2 days of fermentation, I added the slurry
to a full wort and completed fermentation.

What I ended up with was a nice phenolic medicine brew. It's drinkable
to me, but I won't be bring it to any club tastings. Apparently, the
yeast sediment I started with had mutated or became infected with a wild yeast
strain which produced the phenolics. I since learned that the procedure
I used is quite risky. Apparently, even with proper sanitation procedures,
the yeast can mutate and produce some off-flavors.

I'm sure other brewers' experiences may be different, but
my recommendation if you are considering culturing yeast is try to be
careful and make sure the strain you are using is pure. Many local
homebrew clubs have yeast banks of pure cultures which can be grown
up to a proper pitching rates. Otherwise buy the liquid yeast from
your local shop. In my opinion, if you do what I did and just pitch the
sediment from a previous batch, even if it was originally pure, you
are "rolling the dice". You could end up with a dumper batch. 

Your comments & experiences are welcome.

Regards,

Bob Monroe

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Date: Fri, 08 Jul 1994 09:35:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: BREWS at delphi.com
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1470 (July 08

TO:RAYMUN at DELPHI RE:STRAWBERRY WITBIER
THE EXPERIENCE THAT I'VE HAD WITH THEM IS VERY GOOD AND THE LADIES LOVE THE
LIGHT REFRESHING FLAVOR AND AROMA, BUT YOU HAVE TO WACK THE BEER WITH AT
LEAST 2#/GAL FOR A LIGHT EFFECT AND DOUBLE THAT FOR BETTER LEVELS.I'D
SUGGEST THE USE OF A LIGHT LAGER OR BLONDE ALE/CREAM BASE FOR THE BEER AND
THEN DILUTE THE BERRY BATCH INTO A SLURRY WITH WATER AND A BLENDER TO
LIQUIFY AND TRANSPORT TO THE SECONDARY FERMENTER. YOU'LL SEE ABOUT ONE TO
TWO WEEKS MORE OF REFERMENTATION BEFORE THE FINAL RACK TO BOTTLES. LOCK IT
UP OR YOUR FEMALE FRIENDS WILL SCARF IT ALL ON YOU. THE WIT BASE I USED HAD
ORANGE PEEL AND ANISE SEED AT THE END OF BOIL FOR SPICE AND THE FLAVOR
BLENDED WELL WITH THE STRAWBERRY. IT WAS AN 18 GAL BATCH SO I'LL REFRAIN
FROM PUBLISHING THE WHOLE DECOCTION DETAIL UNLESS YOU WANT TO GIVE IT A
WHIRL. THE RESULTS AT SOME COMPS AROUND THE COUNTRY HAVE BEEN MID 30'S
SCORES AND SOME 2ND+3RD PLACE RIBBONS. BUT THE RESPONSE OF THE BABES IS THE
REAL PRIZE. 

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Date: Fri, 08 Jul 1994 09:35:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: BREWS at delphi.com
Subject: MASH MIXING

THE USE OF A CSTR (CONSTANT STIRRED TANK REACTOR) IS WELL KNOWN IN THE
PROCESS INDUSTRIES AS THE BEST WAY TO OPTIMIZE REACTION CHEMISTRY. THE BIG
FELLAS ALL USE EM AND ALL THE FERMENTATION BROTH REACTORS SOLD TO THE BIOMED 
INDUSTRY DO TOO, SO WHY NOT HERE AT HOME. I'VE BEEN DOING THE WOODEN SPOON
CSTR FOR 40+ALL GRAINS at 15 GALMIN SIZE WITH A NOTICEABLE IMPROVEMENT IN MALT
PROFILE AND EXTRACTION RATES SINCE THE 1ST FEW INFUSIONS. THE ABILITY TO ADD 
HEAT TO THE TUN AND RECIRCULATE THE BROTH CONTAINING THE ENZYMES ALLOWS
BETTER CONTROL OVER THE MASH PROFILE . THE DOWNWARD INFUSION OF THE PUGSLEY
SYSTEM WITH ITS HANDS OFF APPROACH TO THE MASH DOES WORK FOR THE STYLE OF
BEER HE PRODUCES BUT ONLY WITH WELL MODIFIED BRITISH MALTS. THEY ARE ALL
SIMILAR IN TASTE PROFILE AND I FIND THEM LESS INTERESTING THAN THE CSTR
BEERS MADE HERE AT MY PLACE. I'M STILL WORKING ON MECHANIZING THE SYSTEM
WITH THE OPTIMUM RECIRC RATES(NOT RIMS) AND AGITATION TIPSPEED/PUMPING
CAPACITY. THERES BEEN NO REAL EVIDENCE OF WORT QXIDATION ON THE BEERS AND
SHELF LIVES OF OVER ONE YEAR OCCUR IN THE COOL BASEMENT CONDITIONS I HAVE
HERE IN MAINE. I'D BE INTERESTED IN SEEING MORE OF JS + DP MECHANICAL DRIVE
+PADDLE DESIGNS AND TESTING THEM OUT IF ICAN'T GET THE RIGHT MOTOR DRIVE FOR 
NY TUN SET UP SOON. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK BOYS.    

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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 09:32:31 -0500
From: jay_weissler at il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler)
Subject: A couple of requests/questions/headspace

Many pointers have been given to useful resources like the yeast faq,  
a ftp site, etc. Unfortunately, we cannot ftp across our firewall.   
Is there an email server available to access these resources? If not,  
could someone email me the yeast faq? Also, what IS the 800 number  
for 'Brewing Techniques'? Assume a US caller.

Yet another theory on headspace (aka flamebait). Priming sugar is  
denser than fermented out wort, so it sinks. This process is slow,  
and we do things to help disperse the sugar like disolve it in  
boiling water and stir the mixture in. We also tend to bottle from  
the bottom of the priming tank, However, I believe that the sugar  
content of the last 1/2 bottle or so in the bottom of the priming  
tank is often relatively high and this leads to the higher  
carbonation in that partially filled bottle.

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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 10:02:13 MDT
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Bud bashing, sense of humor

There's been a small spate of the periodic Bud[Miller|Coors] bashing
lately, prompted by the A-B ad portraying a homebrewer.

Just last night, I caught the tail end of a segment about "Political
Correctness" on one of those trash^H^H^H^H^Hnews shows (the one with 
Connie Chung).  It featured people who were upset about portrayals of
people in TV commercials -- everything from Dennis Hopper's mad
football ref to Porky Pig offended *somebody*.  Apparently Uncle Bud
with his pumpernickel stout offends some homebrewers.

I tend to agree, though, with the ad exec they interviewed, who stated
flatly, "These people have no sense of humor".  I don't want to start
any flame wars about who finds what funny vs offensive (if you must,
flame me in private email), but I think we homebrewers ought to have a
better sense of humor about this thing.

After all, Tom Wurtz admits: "...but I've known plenty of folks who 
brew/have brewed with much lower success and lower objectivity."  We've
all had a homebrew or two that was pretty gnarly.  Some of them have
been my own :-).

Does anyone really think that this commercial will do anything to deter
homebrewers?  On the contrary, those in our camp will stay there, and
Joe Megaswiller will continue to megaswill.  Who knows, someone might
see the Bud ad and think, "Homebrew?  I didn't know you could make beer
at home.  Cool!"  Thus are homebrewers born.

So next time you see this ad, just laugh -- at A-B's folly, perhaps,
rather than at Uncle Bud and his homebrew, but get a chuckle out of
it and then go drink one of your own handcrafted beers.

P.S.  Anyone out there have a recipe for pumpernickel stout?

- --
Jeff Benjamin                               benji at fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado	
"Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."
					    - T.S. Eliot

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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 12:50:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Ronald E. Ostiguy" <REOSTIGUY at CISSYS.READ.TASC.COM>
Subject: Cool beer, Warm Apartment...


My fellow brewers,

   I am preparing to make a generic ale, (i.e. 5 lbs of DME, some hops,etc.)
and have picked up all my ingredients already and was all set to brew it up
this weekend when a thought occurred(sp?) to me.  I haven't brewed in about
4-6 months since it has been nice and cool up here in Massachusetts.  My 
apartment currently does not have the luxury of Air conditioning (sob,sob)
and temperatures range from 70-90 degrees.  (numerous queries follow: )

	1.)	Is it ok to ferment my wort at these temps with regular
		ale yeast?

	2.)	What alterations, (duration of primary, special cooling,etc)
		is necessary to ferment totally?

	3.)	Should I kiss up to the warden (girlfriend) and see if 
		I can store my wort in her cool basement?

	4.)	Am I panicking and should just relax, don't worry and
		have a homebrew?

    Any responses would be greatly appreciated.  Direct E-mail or HBD 
postings will be accepted...

Ron Ostiguy

***************************************************************************
******    Ostiguy Brewing Co. (A Non-Commercial Basement Brewery)    ******
***************************************************************************

Disclaimer:  I am not affiliated with myself in anyway, nor do I make any 
	     profit, monetarily or otherwise, from myself...



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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 12:59:41 EDT
From: Steve Scampini <scampini at hp-and.an.hp.com>
Subject: Filtering Wort

Thought this might be of general interest.  There was a question about
how to deal with the problem of the solids in the wort (dare I say 
sludge, like I do in private?) clogging those small filters in the
bottom of those big plastic funnels.
What worked for me was a stainless steel mesh strainer that my wife
bought in one of those gourmet kitchen supply stores found in most
yuppie malls.  It has a handle, is about 8 inches in diameter and 
costs about $10.  Most importantly it has a deeply dished mesh,
maybe two inches deep at the bottom.  As the solids build up in
the bottom, the liquid exits at a higher level in the mesh.  
Basically, the volume contained in the dished portion of the strainer
is more than sufficient to catch and hold the stuff from my five
gallon extract batches, including the dreaded pelletized hops dregs
and still have "free board" for the liquid to be filtered.  
Problem solved.  Cleaning is a quick rinse, a run through the dish
washer and boiling before use.  Good luck,

Steve Scampini

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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 13:59:56 EDT
From: Steve Scampini <scampini at hp-and.an.hp.com>
Subject: Carbonation

I have been skimming the heavy traffic re: carbonation vs. head space vs.
priming vs.... I haven't had the time to study it but have enjoyed it
thoroughly.  Has the digest reached consensus on the factors and how
they influence carbonation?  If so, can someone rank the factors in terms
of contribution to carbonation, something like priming 70 out of 100, 
headspace 15 out of a 100, ... color of bottle 0.01 out of 100. It is 
often not clear in these discussions just how important a given 
parameter is relative to the outcome in question.

Steve Scampini

"After the game, the king and the pawn go back into the same box."

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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 12:19:14 CDT
From: "Bill Knecht" <knecht at mind.psych.umn.edu>
Subject: Cheap wort cooling wrapup

	Summary results on my posting of cheap extract wort cooling via
sterile ice:
	1.	HSA from O2 residual in ice from previously-boiled water
		is probably not a problem provided that icemaking containers
		are filled up to the top and capped before freezing (boiling
		removes virtually all O2, plus ice quickly cools surrounding
		layer of wort to below HSA temps anyway) (thanks Chip
		Hitchcock).
	2.	Consolodated Plastics, Twinsburg, OH supplies good plastic
		containers (check area code 216 info. for tel #)  (thanks
		Neil DeRue)
	3.	There was a posting in the Digest a few months ago about
		freezing water in sterilized plastic milk jugs and then put-
		ting the whole jug into the hot wort for cooling.  Seems to
		work OK.  (thanks Bob Fawcett)
	4.	" Freeze two one-gallon milk jugs, mostly full of water. Dur-
		ing the last 10 minutes of your boil, fill up one side of the
		sink (halfway) and add those frozen water jugs to pre-chill the 
		water. When you pull your wort off the stove, sit it in the
		other side of the sink and fill the sink mostly full of cold
		water around it for a few minutes. Then remove the milk jugs
		and move your wort pot to the pre-chilled water side of the
		sink. Add several trays full of ice, and in 15-30 minutes your
		wort will be cooled enough to transfer to the carboy and pitch
		your yeast." (A cool minimal-effort technique, quoted verbatim,
		thanks to Jim Sims)
	5.	Darren Aaberge points out that, in the end, the really primo-
		deluxe way to chill wort is with a bona fide wort chiller.
		All other methods will pretty much involve some kind of
		cost/quality tradeoff.

	Thanks again to all the folks above for their good advice and sug-
gestions.

 ....................................................................
 .^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.
 .           William Knecht  (knecht at mind.psych.umn.edu)            .
 .       ...and now for your randomly-selected quotation...         .
 ....................................................................

       "A good listener is usually thinking about something else."
           Kin Hubbard

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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 12:41:32 MDT
From: "Mark B. Alston" <c-amb at math.utah.edu>
Subject: Re: Help me make a strawberry beer

The only suggestion that I can make is to use a yeast that is very low
in diactyl.  The combination of diactyl and strawberry is a truly
awful combination.  I had the oportunity to sample the strawberry
wheat beer from the Breckenridge brewpub in Denver (which Maribeth
Raines quickly gave up after one sip) and it was truly the worst beer
I have ever tasted.  I still get the shakes from thinking of it.

Perhaps try using the Sierra Nevada yeast.  This yeast shouldn't add
any uncomplimentary flavors.

Good luck,
Mark Alston

P.S. let us know how it works out.  I am hesitating from ever trying a
strawberry beer because of that awfull experience.



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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 06:12:38 -0400
From: sam at gobi.toolsmiths.on.ca (Sean MacLennan)
Subject: micro beers from megas

I think Tom Wurtz may have hit the nail on the head. I have not seen the
Bud ads, but in Canada, Molson has done the same thing. They are
producing a beer called "Richard's Red" which is not bad, but will not
admit to brewing it! I think they are trying to attract the "micro"
market.

	Sean MacLennan
	sam at toolsmiths.on.ca
	There is no bad beer, only better!

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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 14:14:35 -0700
From: Don Put <dput at csulb.edu>
Subject: Motorized Masher Update (of sorts)

In Thursday's HBD Allen Ford wrote:

>I would now request that Don, Jack, and any others who follow the mixing 
>procedure relate their real-world experiences with it.  Specifically, what 
>differences, qualitative and quantitative, do you see between mixing the 
>mash and not mixing, both during the brewing process and in the finished 
>beer?

I've sent a lengthy response to Allen via email to this question
(it's the Henry James version -- a byproduct of being a writer :-), but
if anyone would like a copy, just email me.  It's really too long to
post and I'm not sure it's of interest to all.  My limited sample size
(2 batches) also makes my observations somewhat tentative at best.

don
dput at csulb.edu


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Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 14:30:07 PDT
From: berkun at decwet.enet.dec.com
Subject: Cleansers

Baking soda.  Dampen the surface.  Coat with baking 
soda.  Remoisten as necessary.  Wait.  Wipe off (well, 
with some elbow grease).  Many stove tops will not 
tolerate steel wool.  Baking soda is magic.

Ken B.

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1471, 07/09/94