HOMEBREW Digest #1487 Thu 28 July 1994

Digest #1486 Digest #1488


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Strike temp (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
  Re: Fridges as heaters! (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Does hops hop? (lavist)
  Sheaf Stout recipe query (Jim Sims)
  Cleaning Carboys (Bob Fawcett)
  Origin of word "hop" (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Hold the Citrobacter (TJWILLIA)
  M. Garetz and Hop Utilization (cmorris)
  All-grain newbie, other misc stuff (GONTAREK)
  Pressure differences (Robert H. Reed)
  Roasting Brown Malt (cg0scs)
  hydrometer corrections (Mark Bunster)
  Using Licorce Sticks (Chris Strickland)
  Please resend ("OAKQM3")
  Re: Cleaning carboys (Jim Grady)
  yeast propagation (Jason Sloan)
  Re: Anchor, Steam, Fritz Maytag (Jeff Frane)
  madison brewpubs (jehartzl)
  Re: Filling a C02 tank... do it yourself?? (djt2)
  mixing of ferment (Jeffrey A. Ziehler)
  Out on Business (via the vacation program)
  Please Resend ("OAKQM3")
  Please Resend ("OAKQM3")
  away from my mail (via the vacation program)

****************************************************************** ** NOTE: There will be no digest administration from July 27 ** through August 7. PLEASE be patient when requesting changes ** or cancellations. ****************************************************************** Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 18:00:01 EST From: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au> Subject: Strike temp Full-Name: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen Hiya Thanks to everyone again for your answers to my questions about strike temps in infusion mashing etc. I guess I should get one of those thread search programmes for old HBD issues (But I ain't Gott ;-) no PC though) coz it seems most of the info had already been discussed in the past, so as a pointer to info about the thermodynamics of calculating strike temps I refer you to an article (which Rick kindly sent to me) in HDB #1207 by Kelly Jones. If you want me to send you the info then I'll be pleased to do so. Kelvin (kelvink at mtu.edu) also sent me some nifty info on infusion mashing that any newbies out there (like me) to all grain might like, if you want it then gimme a buzz (if there is enough interest I will see about posting it instead of mailing if that is ok by Kelvin). Apparently some of the info was supposed to be going into a "Mash FAQ", has anyone seen hide nor hair of that beasty? Might be a good thing to have at an ftp site like Sierra. Aidan - -- Aidan Heerdegen e-mail: aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 10:03:52 +0000 From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167) Subject: Re: Fridges as heaters! In HBD 1486, ANDY WALSH <awalsh at ozemail.com.au> wrote: > > Has anyone considered using a fridge to keep your fermenting > beer warm in winter? > I made use of the heat from the heat exchanger on the back of my fridge-freezer by accident. The first place I had a few years back was quite small and the only place to ferment my beer was in a corner in the kitchen beside the fridge-freezer. It wasn't until the weather turned a bit colder that I realised the corner was always quite warm from the heat exchanger. The thing was quite inefficient and would switch on for long periods of time so gave off some reasonable heat. Of course, this obviously made my electricity bill a bit higher but kept my beer happy. Cheers, Brian Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 08:06:56 EDT From: lavist at cc.tacom.army.mil Subject: Does hops hop? Jim Grady and his 5 year old son ask: Why do they call it hops if it doesn't hop off? The name "hop" comes from the German word "hopfen". It is only pluralized as "hops" because "hop" refers to a single ripe cone of the "Humulus Lupulus" plant. Only the female flowers produce the cones used in beermaking. Just tell your son to help them "hop off" and I'm sure he will be happy to harvest your hops! lavist at cc.tacom.army.mil Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 08:52:31 EDT From: sims at scra.org (Jim Sims) Subject: Sheaf Stout recipe query Anyone have a recipe for Sheaf Stout? It's a ~Guiness thing... tia, jim Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 09:22:41 EDT From: Bob Fawcett <bobf at gulfaero.com> Subject: Cleaning Carboys Domenick Venezia writes > I've found, as undoubtably many others have, that a cup of bleach in 5 > gallons allowed to stand in the glass carboy for a few days (a week if you > have the time) will dissolve the crud stuck to the glass. I've been using "Electrosol" automatic dishwashing soap. A little in the carboy and fill it with the sink sprayer, let sit overnight , and everything rinses out in the morning. This seems to work better than bleach for me. Bob Fawcett Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation P.O. Box 2206 M/S A-05 Savannah, GA 31402 (912) 965-3773, (912) 965-3820 FAX bobf at gulfaero.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 10:26:30 EDT From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu Subject: Origin of word "hop" The Oxford English Dictionary has this to say, which sort of begs the question: hop ho+p, sb.1 Also 5-6 hoope, hopp, 5-7 hoppe, 6 hope. In 15th c. hoppe, a. MDutch hoppe, Dutch hop = late OHG. hopfo (MHG. hopfe, Ger. hopfen); med.L. hupa (for *huppa); ulterior origin obscure. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 10:29:32 EDT From: <TJWILLIA%OCC.bitnet at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU> Subject: Hold the Citrobacter Jeff Michalski wrote: *Citrobacter is a gram negative rod-shaped bacteria of the Enterobacteriaceae *family. Its name is derived from the fact that can use citrate as its sole *carbon source. It is not known to give "citrus" flavors in beer. It is an *opportunistic human pathogen and its presence in food or drink can give a *(susceptible) individual diarrhea and rarely sepsis, a fatal blood infection. Whoa! Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it cited through various HB sources that nothing (bacteria, fungi, etc.) dangerous (read "pathogenic") can survive in beer? Sure, you may end up with really lousy tasting brew, but running to the crapper or being buried following a fatal blood infection are far removed from the *safe* aspects of this hobby. I appreciate the attempts to shed some light on the subject, but taking the extreme position "watch out, your mistakes may kill you," does nothing to promote this exciting, and IMHO *SAFE*, hobby. (BTW: I'm I the only one who noticed this?) Tom Williams tjwillia at occ.bitnet Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 10:38:56 PDT From: cmorris at orv.mitre.org Subject: M. Garetz and Hop Utilization I would like to thank Mark Garetz for his contribution to the literature available to the homebrewer. His book "Using Hops" is an excellent reference on a broad spectrum of questions concerning hops and brewing. My question for the net is to ask if anyone has started using the "Boil-time utilization" numbers that Mark recommends. Based on my experience (and biases), Mark's numbers for hop utilization in the boil are quite low. Further, many other references seem to be at odds with or contradict Mark's numbers. For example, the table below lists the results computed with a spreadsheet that replicates the hop calculations as discussed in George and Laurie Fix's book on Vienna beers. The calculations are based on a typical Vienna with a brewlength of 18.9 liters, Target OE of 13 P, and Target IBU of 25 (mg/L). This "typical" beer assumed three hop additions with 60, 30, and 15 minute boil times and alpha-acid fractions of 0.04, 0.05, and 0.03 respectively. Given these brew specs., the only parameter allowed to vary in the spreadsheet was the boil-time utilization values - which were taken from the authors indicated in the column headings of the table. Note that for Garetz's numbers I did one calculation with CA = 1 so that "boil-time only" results could be compared with the other author's numbers. In the third column (where CA was not assumed to be equal to 1), the adjustment factors included are the Gravity Factor (GF), Hop Rate (HF), and the Temperature Factor (TF). Fix Rager Garetz Garetz w/CF =1 Total Hops [g] 63.80 70.9 209.7 182.7 Total Hops [oz] 2.25 2.5 7.4 6.4 The question I must raise here is that while the Rager and Fix utilization rates might not have been optimal - is it possible that they were off by a factor of 200% to 220% ??? Observation: Where Mark's boil time numbers have a significant impact on hop weight calculations are in the additions with 0-15 min. boil times. It is "commonly" accepted that these late additions are done to enhance the hop aromatic content of the beer - aromatics that are evaporated off with longer boil times. The bulk of the literature prior to Mark's book however, has assumed that "some" isomerization still takes place at these shorter boil times. Fix for example, assumes a 10% utilization rate and Rager assumes an 8% rate for additions with 15 min. boil duration. If one chooses (as the Fix's suggest in some of their recipes) to have 15% of the total iso-alpha acids in a beer be contributed by the 15 min. addition, it is not hard to show that their addition must increased by 360% - if one uses Mark's utilization numbers. For a Vienna I suggest this will result in a hop nose completely out of character for the style. My point here is not to refute Mark's boil-time utilization numbers. Rather it is to point out that if they are correct then one must take much more care in planning when hop additions are to take place to get the desired balance of bitterness and aromatics. At least more planning than has been suggested by the HB literature in the past. Mark's book touches on this point -(but there could have been more - see chapter 9, pg. 152). It seems we might need a "when-to-add vs. style" table. Perhaps in a later edition of the book - Mark? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 11:14:36 -0400 (EDT) From: GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV Subject: All-grain newbie, other misc stuff Greetings all. I am a relative newcomer to the world of all-grain, but I was so very happy with my first batch that I will continue brewing beers from scratch! Anyway, this past weekend I made a golden ale with 8.5 lbs of pale malt and a bit of crystal malt (2 ounces). I did a single-step infusion mash for one hour, and then I sparged with a simple lauter tun fashioned from two buckets, one with lots of drilled holes. But I wound up with an OG of 1.030!! I was indeed majorly bummed. The first time I did an all-grain I wound up with an extraction efficiency of around 25 pts/lb/gallon, so you can see that I've taken a giant step backwards. Would doing a decoction mash or mashing for a longer period of time help my extraction? BTW, I used Klages 2-row pale malt that was crushed with a Corona. I don't have the time and/or space for lots more equipment, so I would appreciate hearing from anyone on how I could improve my extraction efficiency without too much extra trouble. TIA to everyone! Regarding yeast culturing for the home brewer: I have made some malt/agar plates for growing some yeast, but they tend to run. Adding more agar didn't help. I am a biologist with accesss to lots of LB plates, so I was wondering if anyone has cultured yeast on these plates. I tried it once on an LB plate, but was surprised when it took three days at 30 degreesC for any colonies to show up. What's the trick? Also, does anyone have a good all-grain recipe for "Pete's Wicked Ale"? I'd like to make something similar. I thought about about 9 or 10 lbs of pale malt, about a pound of Crystal malt, and about 1/2 pound of chocolate malt. Cascades? Would Wyeast 1056 do the trick? Thanks to anyone with some advice and experience. Good brewing to you all, and thanks for the help! Rick Gontarek Brewer/Biologist Owner of the Major Groove Picobrewery, Baltimore, MD gontarek at ncifcrf.gov Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 10:24:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Robert H. Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com> Subject: Pressure differences Domenick asks: > > My regulator low pressure gauge and my bleeder valve gauge disagree by > about 2 lbs. Which, if any, should I believe? Does it matter? What do > those 2 screws on the back of the gauge do? Adjustments perhaps? Does your regulator have a check valve? If so, this may explain a delta pressure between your keg and regulator output. Isn't the accepted pressure drop in these valves about 2 psi? Is your regulator reading 2 psi higher than bleeder or vise-versa? > You know, this kegging stuff is pretty fun. I mean I get to play with > hoses and gauges and connects and high pressure gas. Filling a keg for > the first time just feels dangerous. It's almost as much fun as playing > with electricity. Dittos. It's a truly beautiful thing... -Rob Reed Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 16:34:00 +0100 (BST) From: cg0scs <G.A.Cooper at greenwich.ac.uk> Subject: Roasting Brown Malt I have seen the odd request for info on roasting your own malt to produce Amber and Brown malts. The following is reproduced from the appendices of the Durden Park Old British Beers book. If you wish you may reproduce this provided you acknowledge the source (as is usual). Do you want this in the archives at Sierra? Home Roasting Pale Malt to Pale Amber, Amber and Brown Malt ----------------------------------------------------------- Some ingredients needed to make OLD BEERS might not readily be available, in particular pale amber, amber and brown malts. All three can be made by roasting pale malt in a normal domestic oven as described below. Carapils with a colour number of 25 can be used as a substitute for pale amber. However, carapils has little diastatic activity and, as with any low activity grain, eg. roast barley, brown malt, amber malt, it should not exceed 45% of the total grist, the balance being pale malt. Carapils, however, might only be available by bulk purchase direct from maltsters. Roasting Method - --------------- Line a large baking tin with aluminium foil, and pour in pale malt to a depth of 12 mm (1/2 inch). Place in the oven (preferably fan- stirred) at 100 C (230 F) for 45 minutes to dry out the malt, then raise the temperature to 150 C (300 F). After a further 20 minutes remove 6 or 7 corns from the tray, slice across the centre with a sharp knife and compare the colour of the starchy centre with that of a few pale malt corns. The pale malt is almost pure white; for pale amber the colour should be the palest buff, just noticeably different from the pale malt. Continue heating until this colour is obtained, usually about 30 minutes. For amber malt, continue heating until the cut section is distinctly light buff, usually 45 to 50 minutes. If brown malt is needed, raise the temperature at this point to 175 C (350 F) and wait until the cut cross-section is a full buff, i.e. about the colour of the paler types of brown wrapping paper. When the correct colour has been reached, remove the tray from the oven, allow to cool and store the roast grain in an air-tight screw-top jar (large kilner jars are ideal). If used soon after production, the flavour imparted by home- roasted grain is superior to bought grain. The roasting times given above are intended only as a guide to producing the wanted roast grain Practical tests on the oven available will enable home-brewers to adjust the time and temperature to produce the colour needed. Crystal malt, which is usually available, has about the same colour potential as brown malt but a more caramel-like flavour. <end> The following has not made it into the the appendix yet but .... For those who are interested in retaining diastatic activity, subsequent (informed) experiments have shown that a longer time drying the grain at a lower temperature helps protect the enzymes. The following will produce a diastatic Pale Amber. Set the oven at 70-75 C (160-170 F) and put in the tray of grain (the grain bed can be a little deeper - up to 1.5 inches, say) and leave for 2 hours to dry out the grain. Raise the temperature to 88-94 C (190-200 F) for 30 mins then to 110-115 C (230-240 F) for a further 30 mins. Check the colour as above. If insufficient colour, then check at 15 min intervals. If after 1 hour at this temperature, colour has not been achieved, raise to 120-125 C (250-260 F) and continue to check at 15 min intervals. The resultant Pale Amber should be able to mash itself. For Amber malt, after the grain has spent 1 hour at 110-115 C (230-240 F) raise the temperature to 127-132 C (260-270 F) and check colour every 15 mins. *** And note: these diastatic darker grains will be more acidic than normal pale malt and if large proportions are used in a mash you might have to make an allowance in you water treatment. I hope that helps. Good mashing. Geoff Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 12:03:33 EDT From: mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu (Mark Bunster) Subject: hydrometer corrections Hope this isn't a FAQ-- Most hydrometers are accurate at 60 deg F. Papazaion mentions this, but does not note how to correct for temperature. Does the SG shift upward with higher temperatures, or downwards? Does anyone have a formula for conversion based on temperature, or at least deviation from base temp? Thanks--our "what's left in the cabinet" brown ale is bubbling nicely. PS--Without a blowoff tube in the primary, what's a safe and effective way to remove krausen gunk from the sides of the fermenter before it sinks back into the wort? Or is it better to just endure the fusels until we get a blowoff? - -- Mark Bunster |I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV. Survey Research Lab--VCU | Richmond, VA 23284 |Adam Smith's invisible hand mbunster at hibbs.vcu.edu |has got you by the throat... (804) 828-8813 | Trotsky Icepick Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 13:08:52 -0400 From: stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov (Chris Strickland) Subject: Using Licorce Sticks I'm going to make a porter using a licorce stick. When should I put the licorce stick in? +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Chris Strickland | Allin1: stricklandc | | Systems Analyst/Statistician | Email : stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: 27 Jul 1994 02:36:25 U From: "OAKQM3" <OAKQM3 at oakqm3.sps.mot.com> Subject: Please resend Mail*Link(r) SMTP Homebrew Digest #1486 (July 27, 1 !!!! Original Message >= 24K; See following enclosure. Preview follows !!!! HOMEBREW Digest #1486 Wed 27 July 1994 FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor Contents: Cleveland Brewpubs (Bill Rust) Re: Nope, it's oak\ (Phil Miller) BREWPUBS/GRANT'S (chuck.webb) Offensive sig lines (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen) BruProbe/Hops question (Jim Grady) Revival porter (HOMEBRE973) sanitization, lauter, wheat (Mark Gugel) Re:"Beer club" problems (djt2) Gott alternative (TODD CARLSON) Whining / Hot Liquor Tank (npyle) RE: BREWPUBS WASH DC AREA (Robert.Fike) San Diego Brew Pubs (x-4378)" <Simpson at po2.rb.unisys.com> Dampf/Bacteria (Andrew Patrick) Please help, which yeast to use? (EASCHN01) GREAT TASTE OF THE MIDWEST ---sorry, sold out--- (uswlsrap) ("Erica Carlson") Bottle Carbonation Problems (Robert H. Reed) Home Brewer's Compan'n (Charlie Papazian/Boulder) Cleaning glassware (Domenick Venezia) Re: Cleaning Carboys ("Upward, not Northward!") Kegs, Shafted by St Patrick ("Mark Fredrickson") To drink, or not to drink... (DARREN TYSON) In defence of Igloos (ANDY WALSH) Fridges as heaters! (ANDY WALSH) Homebrewing in the UK (again) (Simon W. Bedwell) Richmond, VA brew pubs (Gorman) mixing ferment ("Harold R. Wood") Information on Champaign, IL (DARREL SANDALL) Newbie kegger question (Domenick Venezia) Wyeast #1338 concensus (Domenick Venezia) ****************************************************************** ** NOTE: There will be no digest administration from July 27 ** through August 7. PLEASE be patient when requesting changes ** or cancellations. ****************************************************************** Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 19:39:00 -0640 From: bill.rust at travel.com (Bill Rust) Subject: Cleveland Brewpubs Just a quickie! Anyone out there know of any brewpubs in Cleveland, OH. I'm going to a wedding in August, and I am looking for creative ways to fill a small amount of spare time (yes, we already thought of catching a ball game). +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | "If you ever go temporarily insane, don't shoot | BILL RUST | | somebody, like a lot of people do. Instead try | Systems Analyst | | to get some weeding done, because you'd really | | | be surprised. | --=_=-- | | | | | JACK HANDEY | Shiloh, IL | | Deep Thoughts | bill.rust at travel.com | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ - --- ~ SPEED 1.40 #1651 ~ - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 20:48:52 CDT From: Phil Miller <C616063 at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu> Subject: Re: Nope, it's oak\ In reply to Erick Speckman's (sp?) question in 7/25's HBD, I must humbly say that I did use the malto-dextrin as priming sugar. I din't worry, I relaxed, I had a homebrew. I am told that there should not be a problem, except that it will ta - ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by oakqm3.sps.mot.com with SMTP;27 Jul 1994 02:36:12 U Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 00:38:00 MST From: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Request Address Only - No Articles) Subject: Homebrew Digest #1486 (July 27, 1994) Reply-To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Posting Address Only - No Requests) To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Apparently-To: "Paul_Ingersoll-R17164 at email" <paul_ingersoll at oakqm3.sps.mot.com> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 14:25:40 EDT From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com> Subject: Re: Cleaning carboys I use a 7 gal carboy for my primary and I get all that "primary gunk" out with 1 to 2 Tbs of B-Brite in the carboy with 7 gal of hot water. The gunk is quickly dissolved - usually in a few minutes, a bit longer for stubborn stains. It is quite effective. I never use my carboy brush anymore. In fact, this is about the only time I use B-Brite. I sanitize with Clorox. BTW, my wife used to make a paste with Cascade (the dishwashing detergent, not the hops) for stains on the counters or stovetop that could not be scrubbed out. Now she uses B-Brite. - -- Jim Grady grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 15:03:24 -0400 From: aa3625 at freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu (Jason Sloan) Subject: yeast propagation I am aware that some microbreweries use cylindroconical vessels to propagate their yeasts. I have seen one only once and that was through plate glass. I was wondering how the yeast was propagated. I have an idea but the question of autolysis comes directly to mind. Will someone who knows please tell me? What other ways can a brewery propagate their yeast? TIA, - -- Jason Sloan sloan01?jason at cc01.mssc.edu or aa3625 at freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu - ---Yo ho ho and a bucket of homebrew... Return to table of contents
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 15:42:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com> Subject: Re: Anchor, Steam, Fritz Maytag Dick Dunn wrote: > > Even for Fred, who is *really* one of the old crowd, there was no "steam" > beer in production in the US except for Anchor. As far as I've been able > to find, Anchor has been the only producer of the Steam beer style at least > since Prohibition--and we're now 61 years after repeal. > The question really is -- and perhaps Martin Lodahl is in the best position to answer this -- whether Anchor really is a "steam" beer or not. Is this the same beer that was brewed before the advent of refrigeration or not? Judging from the few descriptions I've seen of actual steam beers, I'd say *not*. Dave Miller makes the case that Anchor is really a pale ale, and that in a blind tasting no one could pick it out of a group of similarly-excellent pale ales. I snorted when I first read that, but subsequent tastings have changed my mind. > Some of it is a "who got there first" argument... > It seems that Anchor established some reasonable right to use the term > "steam" for their beer, quite a while ago, with no contention. In other > words, it's not as if they muscled their way up to the bar with Armani-clad > lawyers as bodyguards and said "the name is ours now; shove off". Rather, > they simply made the ONLY steam beer in the US for so long that they came > to be associated with, and eventually to own, the name. There wasn't any > competition; they got the moniker because they earned and used it, and > nobody else did, for many decades. Remember, we're not talking '80's > neo-brewing here; Fritz Maytag was THE pioneer of modern microbrewing. > We're also talking about someone who has a good deal of money to throw at lawyers if need be. Of course, in Anchor's case, the mere *threat* of a lawsuit would be enough to warn off anyone who wanted to fight the issue. > > > 2) For a long time a beer named Anchor has been brewed in Singapore and > > Malaysia...[saga deleted]...beers disappeared... > > ...and when they came back there was no more Anchor. > > Was this because of Mr. Maytag? > > Well, why don't you find out and tell us? The question you raise, even if > it's a good one (and likely, as trademark law goes) is still innuendo, with > nothing to support it. "This beer went away years ago" isn't much to go > on. It could be...but a shred of evidence would be comforting. > It isn't innuendo, it's fact. I had it several years ago from the distributor. Actually, the Anchor from SE Asia wasn't very exciting, and for beer drinkers not much of a loss, but it really was a trademark issue and Maytag prevailed, probably without any court time. What's more greatly missed is the truly spectacular ABC Stout the brewery made, but the fault is their own. At one time, the beer was bottle-conditioned, about 1.065 and incredibly creamy but they apparently felt the need to compete with the locally-brewed Guinness and changed the recipe -- for the worse. > Just so. And, does anyone know whether Maisel "Dampf" is still imported > under that name? ("Dampf" is the German word for "steam".) > Me, I just want to find some more Maisel Dampfbier -- which they considered a sort of modern altbier. Wonderful stuff, but I haven't seen any in Oregon in more than 5 years. - --Jeff Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 15:07:28 -0600 (CST) From: jehartzl at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu Subject: madison brewpubs i am one of those lucky enough to have purchased tickets for the great taste, in madison wisconsin on august 20th, before they sold out. if any one knows of any good brewpubs in the area please respond either to my address or the HBD. thank you in advance. jeh - --------------------------------------------------------------------- Jason Hartzler 2540 Student Health Services jehartzl at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790-2540 ===================================================================== Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 16:26:59 -0400 From: djt2 at po.cwru.edu Subject: Re: Filling a C02 tank... do it yourself?? Ok, maybe this won't apply to everyone, but we have a 350# tank of liquid CO2 at work all of the time, and the thought of driving downtown and paying $15 to get 5# of CO2 irks me. Any thoughts on whether I could fill my own cylinder from our liquid tank? The fittings seem trivial, the big tank has a "liquid out" valve that is just like the "in" port on the cylinder. If it weren't for the thought of the big KABOOM and three orphans at home I'd just do it myself. Do I worry too much? dennis Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 17:32:50 CDT From: Jeffrey A. Ziehler <ziehler at post.its.mcw.edu> Subject: mixing of ferment I am a Yeast biochemist and the reason we mix (stir) our fermentations is to achieve good aeration of the culture. Yeast are facultative anaerobes (they can grow with or without O2). They simply grow much better with oxygen (generate many more ATP/glucose in presence of O2). This is due to the Krebs (citric acid) cycle and oxidative phosphorylation. Just remember, O2 in beer after the ferment takes off is a Bad Thing(tm). Jeff or He who knows that the origins of biochemistry are in beer. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 15:29:55 +0800 From: giraffe at ayla.Eng.Sun.COM (via the vacation program) Subject: Out on Business Hi Folks, I am out of the office Wednesday, July 28th to September 6th, on SunSoft business. I am available by pager at 1-800-254-9607 (direct) or 1-800-759-7243 w/ pin # 2549607. Jennifer Levy will be in contact with me often, so please call her if you have an urgent need. Her extention is x64966. My itinerary is as follows: 7/28 8/2 Taiwan 8/2 8/8 HK 8/8 8/12 Sing 8/12 8/15 Sydney 8/15 8/19 Canberra 8/19 8/29 Sydney I am also be reached at the below hotels: Sheraton Hong Kong Hotel & Towers 20 Nathan Road, Kowloon, Hong Kong Tel: 852-732-6064 Fax:852-312-1956 Shangri-La Hotel Orange Grove Road, 1025, Singapore Tel: 65-275-0100 Fax:65-275-0355 Grand Hyatt Taipei 2 Sung Shou Road Taipei, Taiwan Tel: 2-720-1234 Fax: 886-2-270-1111 Lakeside Hotel London Circuit, 2600 City Center Canberra, Australia TEL: 61-6-247-6244 Fax:61-6-257-307 The Regent of Sydney 199 George Street Sydney, NSW 2000, Australia TEL: 61-2-238-0000 Fax:61-2-251-2851 Thanks for your patience, Ann Return to table of contents
Date: 26 Jul 1994 02:50:04 U From: "OAKQM3" <OAKQM3 at oakqm3.sps.mot.com> Subject: Please Resend Mail*Link(r) SMTP Homebrew Digest #1485 (July 26, 1 !!!! Original Message >= 24K; See following enclosure. Preview follows !!!! HOMEBREW Digest #1485 Tue 26 July 1994 FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor Contents: homebrew mail-order blues ("JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR") mail-order home-brew blues ("JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR") General thoughts.. (m.bryson2) Anchor and trademark stuff (Dick Dunn) Phil Miller's Offensive SIG line (BILL_MARKS) Bacteriology ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD") Kegging Beer (rnarvaez) Wort Volume Reduction Tip (Phil Brushaber) corny (soda) keg o-rings, where to get 'em cheap (24-Jul-1994 2239 -0400) (Douglas Thompson) Low carbonation levels ?? (Paul Jeffrey) Strike water temp (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen) beer machine help (fwd) (kain) brewing lagers (Tim Lawson) Open Fermenters/sanitation (Jim Busch) Re: In Gott's Name ... (-: (Dion Hollenbeck) Raking the Lauter (Jim Busch) Bacteria (Brian Wurst) Hello Roger (Bob Jones) Head retention with home malted wheat (Nancy.Renner) apolofy ("JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR") Mac Digest browsers. (Spencer.W.Thomas) In Gott's Name ... (-: (Spencer.W.Thomas) Keg O-ring results... (abaucom) Billowing clouds of yeast and sediment (huffmand) Vanilla in Porter / New England Beer (R. Keith Frank) Re: Brew Pubs in San Diego (hanna) Maryland Brewpubs & Homebrewshops ("" ) Bock, the Book (Spencer.W.Thomas) Cleaning glassware (KWH) Initial results for on-demand Krauesening (Jack Skeels) Washington DC Area Pubs/Clu ("Scott Majdecki") ****************************************************************** ** NOTE: There will be no digest administration from July 27 ** through August 7. PLEASE be patient when requesting changes ** or cancellations. ****************************************************************** Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jul 1994 16:07:16 PST From: "JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR" <JSDAWS1 at PB1.PacBell.COM> Subject: homebrew mail-order blues Mail-order buyer beware I just had a thourally unpleasant experience with a newer Brew mail-order business, the 'Brew Club' in Santa Cruz. I placed a fairly large order which included a carbonator (CO2 fitting for a PET bottle). When I got the order, I noticed I'd been overcharged for this item ($10 in catalog.. $13 on invoice) I called to inquire and the woman who always answers said that their supplier had raised his prices and I could either accept it or mail it back (at my expense). I decided to keep it. A week later I tried it and found it to be defective, altho it made a wonderful beer super-soaker :(. I called back and she said that the whole batch was defective and she'd send a replacement. This too was defective but this time when I called I was told that I would have to return it (at my expense) to get a replacement. I did, and when I called a week later to confirm receipt I was told that since I'd only returned one, that no further refunds would be given. I told her I wasn't aware that she'd wanted the original, at which point she began whining about her problems with her supplier. I suggested that if her supplier was more important than her customer, perhaps she was in the wrong business. She said tough shit, and I wou - ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by oakqm3.sps.mot.com with SMTP;26 Jul 1994 02:49:53 U Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 00:51:43 MST From: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Request Address Only - No Articles) Subject: Homebrew Digest #1485 (July 26, 1994) Reply-To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Posting Address Only - No Requests) To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com Apparently-To: "Paul_Ingersoll-R17164 at email" <paul_ingersoll at oakqm3.sps.mot.com> Return to table of contents
Date: 26 Jul 1994 03:00:09 U From: "OAKQM3" <OAKQM3 at oakqm3.sps.mot.com> Subject: Please Resend Mail*Link(r) SMTP Homebrew Digest #1485 (July 26, 1 !!!! Original Message >= 24K; See following enclosure. Preview follows !!!! HOMEBREW Digest #1485 Tue 26 July 1994 FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor Contents: homebrew mail-order blues ("JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR") mail-order home-brew blues ("JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR") General thoughts.. (m.bryson2) Anchor and trademark stuff (Dick Dunn) Phil Miller's Offensive SIG line (BILL_MARKS) Bacteriology ("Jeff M. Michalski, MD") Kegging Beer (rnarvaez) Wort Volume Reduction Tip (Phil Brushaber) corny (soda) keg o-rings, where to get 'em cheap (24-Jul-1994 2239 -0400) (Douglas Thompson) Low carbonation levels ?? (Paul Jeffrey) Strike water temp (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen) beer machine help (fwd) (kain) brewing lagers (Tim Lawson) Open Fermenters/sanitation (Jim Busch) Re: In Gott's Name ... (-: (Dion Hollenbeck) Raking the Lauter (Jim Busch) Bacteria (Brian Wurst) Hello Roger (Bob Jones) Head retention with home malted wheat (Nancy.Renner) apolofy ("JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR") Mac Digest browsers. (Spencer.W.Thomas) In Gott's Name ... (-: (Spencer.W.Thomas) Keg O-ring results... (abaucom) Billowing clouds of yeast and sediment (huffmand) Vanilla in Porter / New England Beer (R. Keith Frank) Re: Brew Pubs in San Diego (hanna) Maryland Brewpubs & Homebrewshops ("" ) Bock, the Book (Spencer.W.Thomas) Cleaning glassware (KWH) Initial results for on-demand Krauesening (Jack Skeels) Washington DC Area Pubs/Clu ("Scott Majdecki") ****************************************************************** ** NOTE: There will be no digest administration from July 27 ** through August 7. PLEASE be patient when requesting changes ** or cancellations. ****************************************************************** Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jul 1994 16:07:16 PST From: "JSDAWS1 at PROFSSR" <JSDAWS1 at PB1.PacBell.COM> Subject: homebrew mail-order blues Mail-order buyer beware I just had a thourally unpleasant experience with a newer Brew mail-order business, the 'Brew Club' in Santa Cruz. I placed a fairly large order which included a carbonator (CO2 fitting for a PET bottle). When I got the order, I noticed I'd been overcharged for this item ($10 in catalog.. $13 on invoice) I called to inquire and the woman who always answers said that their supplier had raised his prices and I could either accept it or mail it back (at my expense). I decided to keep it. A week later I tried it and found it to be defective, altho it made a wonderful beer super-soaker :(. I called back and she said that the whole batch was defective and she'd send a replacement. This too was defective but this time when I called I was told that I would have to return it (at my expense) to get a replacement. I did, and when I called a week later to confirm receipt I was told that since I'd only returned one, that no further refunds would be given. I told her I wasn't aware that she'd wanted the original, at which point she began whining about her problems with her supplier. I suggested that if her supplier was more important than her customer, perhaps she was in the wrong business. She said - ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ Received: by oakqm3.sps.mot.com with SMTP;26 Jul 1994 03:00:01 U Received: by motsps.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email-2.1) id AA01327; Tue, 26 Jul 94 01:01:52 MST Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU by spsgate.sps.mot.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/Email 2.1 10/25/93) id AA21130; Tue, 26 Jul 94 00:57:47 MST Message-Id: <9407260757.AA21130 at spsgate.sps.mot.com> Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU by UA1VM.UA.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 2574; Tue, 26 Jul 94 02:57:40 CDT Received: from UA1VM.UA.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV at UA1VM) by UA1VM.UA.EDU (LMail V1.1d/1.7f) with BSMTP id 4574; Tue, 26 Jul 1994 02:57:37 -0500 Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 01:01:00 -0600 Reply-To: Posting Address Only - No Requests <homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com> Sender: Homebrew Digest Redistribution List <BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU> From: Request Address Only - No Articles <homebrew-request@ HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM> Subject: Homebrew Digest #1485 (July 26, 1994) X-To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com To: Multiple recipients of list BEER-L <BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU> Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 15:16:17 +0800 From: John.Treacy at Eng.Sun.COM (via the vacation program) Subject: away from my mail I will be out of the office until Monday, August 22. In order to avoid crashing my machine by filling up the file system with email, your message has been redirected to /dev/null. If the subject will still be relevant, please resend it when I'm back. TeamWare issues should go to Jill Foley or Scott Hanham. John Treacy Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1487, 07/28/94