FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Cleveland Brewpubs (Bill Rust)
  Re: Nope, it's oak\ (Phil Miller)
  BREWPUBS/GRANT'S (chuck.webb)
  Offensive sig lines (Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
  BruProbe/Hops question (Jim Grady)
  Revival porter (HOMEBRE973)
  sanitization, lauter, wheat (Mark Gugel)
  Re:"Beer club" problems (djt2)
  Gott alternative (TODD CARLSON)
  Whining / Hot Liquor Tank (npyle)
  RE: BREWPUBS WASH DC AREA (Robert.Fike)
  San Diego Brew Pubs (x-4378)" <Simpson at po2.rb.unisys.com>
  Dampf/Bacteria (Andrew Patrick)
  Please help, which yeast to use? (EASCHN01)
  GREAT TASTE OF THE MIDWEST  ---sorry, sold out--- (uswlsrap)
   ("Erica Carlson")
  Bottle Carbonation Problems (Robert H. Reed)
  Home Brewer's Compan'n (Charlie Papazian/Boulder)
  Cleaning glassware (Domenick Venezia)
  Re: Cleaning Carboys ("Upward, not Northward!")
  Kegs, Shafted by St Patrick ("Mark Fredrickson")
  To drink, or not to drink... (DARREN TYSON)
  In defence of Igloos (ANDY WALSH)
  Fridges as heaters! (ANDY WALSH)
  Homebrewing in the UK (again) (Simon W. Bedwell)
  Richmond, VA brew pubs (Gorman)
  mixing ferment ("Harold R. Wood")
  Information on Champaign, IL (DARREL SANDALL)
  Newbie kegger question (Domenick Venezia)
  Wyeast #1338 concensus (Domenick Venezia)



******************************************************************
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**  through August 7. PLEASE be patient when requesting changes
**  or cancellations.
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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 19:39:00 -0640
From: bill.rust at travel.com (Bill Rust)
Subject: Cleveland Brewpubs


Just a quickie!  Anyone out there know of any brewpubs in Cleveland, OH.  I'm
going to a wedding in August, and I am looking for creative ways to fill a
small amount of spare time (yes, we already thought of catching a ball game).

 +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | "If you ever go temporarily insane, don't shoot  |      BILL RUST       |
 | somebody, like a lot of people do.  Instead try  |   Systems Analyst    |
 | to get some weeding done, because you'd really   |                      |
 | be surprised.                                    |       --=_=--        |
 |                                                  |                      |
 | JACK HANDEY                                      |     Shiloh, IL       |
 | Deep Thoughts                                    | bill.rust at travel.com |
 +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

- ---
 ~ SPEED 1.40 #1651 ~

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Date:         Mon, 25 Jul 94 20:48:52 CDT
From: Phil Miller <C616063 at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Re: Nope, it's oak\

In reply to Erick Speckman's (sp?) question in 7/25's HBD, I must humbly say
that I did use the malto-dextrin as priming sugar. I din't worry, I relaxed,
I had a homebrew. I am told that there should not be a problem, except that it
will take about 1 to 1 1/2 months for carbonation to appear; there should be
enough yeast and fermentable sugars left over from fermentation to give the
brew carbonation. As a test, and using the advice of the local "Brewmeister",
I added 1/2 teaspoon corn sugar to some of the bottles (6) to see if that resul
ts in adequate carbonation or Millertov cocktails, hopefully the former. I'll
have a full-bodied, high-alcohol brew on my hands. I tested another bottle
today, and aside from its flatness, the "oaky" flavor had given way to a very
tasty ale. Now if Don Ho would bless me with some tiny bubbles...


       ___________       GO CUBS!
      /           \      THE NEVER - ENDING QUEST FOR .500!
     /   ______    \
    /   /      \    \    PHIL MILLER
   /   /        \____\   DEPT. OF ECONOMICS
   |   ||  | |--\ /--/   UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI, COLUMBIA
   |   ||  | |()/ \__    EMAIL C616063 at MIZZOU1.MISSOURI.EDU
   |   ||  | |()\    \
   |   |\__/ |__/ \__/   MIZZOU TIGERS 14-0 BIG 8 BASKETBALL CHAMPS 1994
   \   \         ____
    \   \_______/   /    "I WAS BORN WITHOUT TEETH."
     \             /          SAMUEL CLEMENS (MARK TWAIN)
      \___________/

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Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 21:59:50 
From: chuck.webb at 24stex.com
Subject: BREWPUBS/GRANT'S


     Hello, all.  I had an occasion to take a little trip during the first week
in July from northern California to Albuquerque, New Mexico.  In the course of
this, I found two brewpubs worth mentioning.
     In Flagstaff, AZ there is the Beaver Street Brewery which brews a very
nice Pale Ale (IMHO; I am by no means a qualified beer judge) and an
interesting raspberry ale.  I didn't sample their  darker brews as it was hot
and I'd traveled 350 miles on a motorcycle that day and I just wasn't in the
mood for anything heavy.  They are not bottling yet, so you must go there.  I
found their food and service to be excellent as well.  
     In Albuquerque, there was Assets Restaurant and Brewpub.  This is a fairly
new establishment that also is not yet bottling their product (Darn!).  They
are brewing Road Runner Ale (tm) which to my admittedly biased palette is
wonderful!  I can't wait until it becomes available in the bottle, although
I'll probably never see any in No. Cal.  They were also serving a blueberry ale
which initially tasted of fresh blueberries and then finished with a mild hop
flavor; a marzen, a summer wheat, and a stout, if I recall correctly.  They
offer the small 2 oz. tasting glasses at $.50 each.  I settled for 2 pints of
the Road Runner Ale and a Thai Spicy Chicken Pizza from their wood-fired pizza
oven.  This was REALLY spicy, about an 8.2 on the Richter scale!  But good,
very good.  Actually, I wish they'd open a franchise in Sacramento.  I am not
in any way connected with either of the above; usual disclaimers, etc.

     This past weekend I attended the Sierra Brewfest in Grass Valley, CA and
among the wide variety of brews available I discovered Grant's Scottish Ale. 
If anyone has a comparable receipe, I'd appreciate it if you'd share.  I am a
(not particularly) humble extract brewer, so please, no all-grain receipes. 
Private E-Mail is fine.  TIA....

chuck.webb at 24stex.com  (Chuck Webb)


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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 18:27:12 EST
From: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Offensive sig lines
Full-Name: Aidan "Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen

Bill wrote: 

| I found Phil Miller's SIG line implying a national radio 
| celebrity was a Nazi and that Nancy Reagan uses drugs to be 
| offensive, moronic and completely inappropriate for this forum.  

I thought it was funny.

| Looking at the final gravity of your beer, the oak flavor you 
| described and the boil-over, you should have enough to think 
| about without concerning yourself with politicizing the HBD.  
| Save the excessive cuteness for the classroom.  

Unlike yourself, Phil chose to comment on a public figure, 
someone who puts themselves in a position where public criticism 
is part of the "job".  He did so with wit, perhaps one of the 
best forms of ridcule.  

Considering that it was not a long sig line and he did not 
mention his views in his post, I think maybe you are being a 
little harsh.  

I for one god good laugh out of it (I don't even know who the 
flaming gasbag is!).  

Lighten up Bill.

Aidan

- --
Aidan Heerdegen				
e-mail: aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au

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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 7:30:13 EDT
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: BruProbe/Hops question

BruProbe:

The March/April issue of "Brewing Techniques" had an article titled
"High Tech Home Brewing" where the author described how to make a 3'
brass probe with a temperature sensor at the end and how to build a
circuit to display the temperature.  He also mentions that you can buy
the pre-fabricated wand and a PC board for the circuit from J.B.
Distributing (603.465.7633).  What he doesn't tell you is the following:
  * J.B. Distributing sells the wand for $20.  The sensor alone costs
    $15.40 from Digi-Key (I realize that they may not be the cheapest
    source but I have not done the research to find a cheaper one).
  * The P.C. Board is $25, $35 for the wand and the PC board together.
    Shipping is $5.
  * The wand is thinner and better built than the one described in the
    article.  The end is brazed shut before the sensor is mounted so it
    is hermetically sealed.
  * The output of the sensor is 10 mV/deg F and the circuit is basically
    a voltmeter.  If you have a digital multimeter, you just need to
    connect a supply to the sensor (I used a 9V battery with a 100 ohm
    resistor in series as per the circuit in "Brewing Techniques"),
    connect it to your DMM, and you're in business.

I finally got to use it last weekend (it was a Father's Day present) and
it works GREAT!

Usual disclaimer - no financial interest in J.B. Distributing, just a
satisfied customer.
*****************
Hop question:

I am growing hops for the first time this year.  Last night I was
outside surveying the hop yard (5 plants) with my 5 year old son.  I
pointed to the cones that are just starting and said:
  "Do you see those kind of fuzzy things at the top?  Those are the
  hops."
He replied,
  "Wow!  I hope we're outside when they hop off!"

So, can any of you answer his obvious question?  Why are they called
hops if they don't hop off?

- --
Jim Grady             
grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com

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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 10:02:00 EDT
From: HOMEBRE973 at aol.com
Subject: Revival porter

I found a Dec. 1992 recipe from part of an HBD for a beer called "Revival
Porter."    It uses 2.5 lbs. of brown malt.  However, I lost the part about
how you make this brown malt at home.  Does anyone remember the method or the
recipe, please help.

I do not know Al Korzonas (sp?) personally, but I find his use of the HBD to
be quite informative and his answered quite helpful and given in the spirit
for which the digest was intended.  He may make errors at times, but let
those of us who are errorless cast the first bottle of correction fluid.  The
flames against him were uncalled for.

Speaking of flames, to paraphrase Doonesbury;" What is the difference between
Rush Limbugh(sp?) and the Hindenburg?



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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 11:46:30 EDT
From: Mark Gugel <mdgugel at mtu.edu>
Subject: sanitization, lauter, wheat

Jim Busch mentions that my distinction between sanitization and sterrilization
may not be correct.  Thank you for the correction.  My distinction between 
sterrilization and sanitization was merely from the directions on the back of 
my (store brand) bleach container.

The point, I should have made is that I don't want to wash in strong bleach
solutions without some rinse in a milder solution.  Having once made this
mistake, I noticed that this can really through off the flavor of a good beer.  
This is why I actually prefer using sodium bisulfate, or better yet I rinse my 
bottles in water and bake them at 250 F prior to bottling.  Any suggestions?

Second, on the subject of raking the lauter tun, I have found that raking my 
5 gallon bucket lauter tun actually helped my extraction rate in an experiment
with two simultaneous, identical batches.  

Thank you, Jeff in Ann Arbor for your Michigan winter wheat thread.  I've
personally been interrested in this information.

Mark D. Gugel


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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 12:07:42 -0400
From: djt2 at po.cwru.edu
Subject: Re:"Beer club" problems

Someone wrote (several times):

>At this point, I'm out $15 with zero recourse.  I won't be doing any
>further business with this so-called 'Brew Club'.  I now realize that
>once they've got your credit card #, you're pretty much at their mercy

not necessarily. Your credit-card issuer should arbitrate this. Issue a
complaint with them, and tell them that your are paying this part of your
bill under protest. I have had pretty good luck getting satisfaction this
way. I advise *not* withholding the payment, though, 'cause it might wnd up
costing you extra interest charges. Send them all of the documentation you
have.

Now, if you'd sent them cash, you'd be at their mercy.

d



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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 12:18:37 EST
From: carlsont at GVSU.EDU (TODD CARLSON)
Subject: Gott alternative

          I just did my first all grain batch and found what seems to
          be a good (ie cheap/easy) alternative to the Gott cooler,
          using a couple of hints from earlier HBD's.  I got one of
          those ubiquitous 5 gal pail.  I cut the rim off the lid
          using a hand held power jug-saw with a hacksaw blade.  The
          middle of the lid was drilled for a false bottom.  The rim
          of the lid was shortened and used to hold the false bottom
          about an inch up from the real bottom.  I drilled a hole in
          the side, below the false bottom and screwed in a plastic
          adapter with threads that match one of those flat,
          galvanized nuts used to attach electrical wiring conduit to
          junction boxes.  I used a rubber washer to get a leak-proof
          seal.  The adapter has a barbed fitting to which I attached
          a short section of tygon tubing.  The cost for all of the
          parts was just a few dollars.  To insulate the mash/lauter
          tun I just put it in a cardboard box filled with styrofoam
          packing peanuts (free "Gott").  Over the 60 min mash the
          temperature did not drop at all.  The lautering seemed to
          work well.  The flow rate is easily controlled by moving the
          level of the outlet tube up or down.  By the end of the the
          lautering, the wort was very clear so filtering must be OK.

          The problem I ran into was a very low yield -- OG of 1.030
          in 5 gal from 7lbs of pale ale malt and 1.33 lbs of
          specialty grains.  So instead of getting an extra special
          bitter I am getting a mild, oh well.  I think the problem
          was with me and not the equipment.  Perhaps I didn't mash
          long enough or lautered too fast.  TIA for hints
          or guidelines on these steps.

          Todd
          carlsont at gvsu.edu

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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 10:18:07 MDT
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com
Subject: Whining / Hot Liquor Tank

I'm offended at the lack of excessive cuteness in Bill Marks post about Phil
Miller's inoffensive .signature line.  But then, I'm big enough to let it rest.
As long as I'm whining, please note that there are several FAQs at the sierra
archive site, including ones covering hops, yeast, and a file on kegging,
which is a precursor to a kegging FAQ.  Please use them before posting "I
know this has been discussed here before, but...".  Oh, there are also
programs for searching the archives for keywords, etc., AND there are several
ways to get at them (ftp, email, WWW).  I'm not trying to attack new posters
in order to prevent questions, but simple netiquette asks that you read the
forum for a while before jumping in and asking Frequently Asked Questions.
Also, anybody like to take a shot at a short FAQ on lagering? Just a thought.
Returning my soapbox to the brewery for use as a stepstool...

**

I've got a plan to make a hot liquor tank based on a used keg.  I'll insulate
it and then wrap some aluminum sheeting around the insulation (I've acquired
a 4x8 sheet of 1/8" aluminum).  The bottom won't be insulated, so the flame
can heat the water, but the sides will be.  The top still has to be designed.
I've got a nice temperature guage with a 5" dial and a MPT fitting, with a
4" probe.  This, a sight guage, and in/out fittings will all be placed in
it with holes punched in the appropriate places.  Anything I'm forgetting
that I might wish I had later?  I'm also considering something similar for
a mash/lauter tun.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  One day I'll quit
making stuff and brew...

Cheers,
Norm npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com

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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 13:20:52 EST
From: Robert.Fike at ccmail.GSFC.NASA.GOV
Subject: RE: BREWPUBS WASH DC AREA


       For the two people who will be in Crystal city for only a few
       days, I recommend "Bardo's" in Alexandria.  They have MANY
       beers on tap, some even brewed on premises.  Bardo's is only a
       few miles from Crystal City.  I beleive they are near a Metro
       station.  I know there is a Metro station in Crystal City.  I
       don't recommend walking around in the area, unfortunatly we
       have a slight problem with crime in that area.

       Good Luck and have fun

                                        Rob

          P.S.  HBD has opened my eyes alittle.  I thought J.K. of
          S.A. was O.K.    Still good beer though.

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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 10:18:00 PDT
From: "SIMPSON, Mark (x-4378)" <Simpson at po2.rb.unisys.com>
Subject: San Diego Brew Pubs


Howdy,

I would like to add some commentary about the Pacific Beach Brewhouse in San 
Diego.  There has been a new brewmeister in place for a little over a year 
now and IMHO, the beers have taken on a new life.  The Over -The -Line Stout 
was recently given the "4-Pints" award by the society of Brewing Engineers. 
 PB's "Belgian Ale" was recently featured at the Great Arizona Beer Fest and 
was touted as a highlight of the festival.  My personal favorite is the IPA, 
which is every bit as good as the IPA at the Rubicon Brewery in 
Sacratomatoe.  THAT is worth the trip in itself.  The flavored beers are a 
product of the local environment.  The locals want mint stouts and they 
drink them "en masse".  So be it, I'll take the IPA, please.  And one of 
those yummy sourdough "Florentine" pizzas, for balance...  just a local's 
opinion..

Oh BTW, the San Diego BP, along with their 50 brews on tap, has a deelishus 
hand-pumped ale that is ohh sooo creamy...

BrewCat

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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 12:54:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andrew Patrick <andnator at mcs.com>
Subject: Dampf/Bacteria

In HBD1485 rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn) writes:

>And, does anyone know whether Maisel "Dampf" is still imported
>under that name?  ("Dampf" is the German word for "steam".)

I believe they still use the name.  However Dampfbier is not the same
style as Steam(tm) beer.  The reference to Dampf came from around the
turn of the century when steam was the latest in "modern" technology.
Gee... could this be an example of early marketing hype?

******
Brian Wurst Writes :

>The microbiology text* I've got says Lactobacillus contains lactase
>which splits the lactose molecule into its constituent molecules,
>glucose and galactose.  These are fermentable by beer yeasts, where
>lactose is not, hence the additional CO2 Al's talking about.

OK, I'll buy that.

>[BTW, How much did you pay Siebel for a course which excludes such
>information?

Nothing.  It was paid by my employer :-)  Actually the price is $2050.

>Perhaps a Lacto- infection is not a thing that commercial brewers need
>worry about or have to deal with (damifino), but it is a homebrewer's
>problem.

Quite the contrary.. they spent the better part of a whole day discussing
pasturization alone.  The entire class was devoted to preventing infections
from bad procedures, identification/isolation of infecting organizms, and
yeast culturing, storage, etc.

Lactobacillus/Pediococcus infections are a MAJOR concern for anyone who
makes beer.  I have two bottles of a Midwest microbrewed beer that have a
very nice culture of Lactobacillus in the sediment as an example of how
things can go wrong.  BTW.. they don't gush when opened.

=> Rich Larsen (708) 388-3514 HBU-BBS (708) 705-7263

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Date:         Tue, 26 Jul 94  14:03:23 EDT
From: EASCHN01 at ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU
Subject:      Please help, which yeast to use?

I bought a kit of Glenbrew Irish Stout to make my first ever batch of
homebrew.  It came with a 10 g. packet of yeast.  As I was leaving the
store, the owner said "I gave you an extra packet of yeast. Pitch
both of them since sometimes these are imported and may be
old and inactive."  The extra yeast is labeled Munton & Fison
Homebrewers Yeast (Ideal for Ales) and is a 7 g. packet.
   Since the Glenbrew kit says that their yeast will ferment out a much
higher percentage of the sugars and therefore yield a dryer stout, what
effect would pitching both yeasts have, or one and not the other?
   This got me to thinking, since I like Mackeson, I would not be opposed
to a sweeter tasting stout.  My guess has been the kit is intended to
produce a Guinness type of stout, which is fine, but I rather like the
idea of producing a slightly sweeter stout, if possible.
   Does anyone know what I should expect if I were to pitch:
1) Only the Glenbrew Yeast
2) Only the Munton & Fison Yeast
3) Both yeasts    (Or will there be much difference any way I go?)

   Also, do I need to prime the wort with corn sugar before bottling?  The
kit instructions skip this step, but everything else I've read, and the
store owner, tells me I should.

Thanks for any and all help.  I've not used the list before, but replies
to my personal e-mail would be appreciated since I sometimes miss parts of
the Beer-L Digest.

Eric Schneider
"If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the person who
 has so much as to be out of danger?" -T.H.Huxley
EASCHN01 at ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU or EASCHN01 at ULKYVM.BITNET


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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 14:12:55 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: GREAT TASTE OF THE MIDWEST  ---sorry, sold out---                

- ----------------------- Mail item text follows ---------------

To: INTERNET--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: GREAT TASTE OF THE MIDWEST  ---sorry, sold out---


Two comments on the August 20 GREAT TASTE:

1) A couple people saw the event listing in ZYMURGY and/or the AHA club
   list and thought it was a competition.  Granted, most (but not all)
   of the listings are for competitions (but they are typically identified
   as such)  The GREAT TASTE, however, is a craft beer TASTING festival
   featuring 100+ beers from 37 micros/brewpubs and close to a couple
   thousand happy beer-lovers, which leads me to me second point....
2) Tickets sold out late in June.  We've sold out the last two years,
   and advised people to buy early to avoid being turned away.  This
   year people saw that we were not kidding and took our advice.
   Unfortunately, we have to return the ticket orders that keep coming in.
So save your stamps and your phone bills!

We'd like to be able to accommodate more people, but the limitation of
the beautiful downtown park we've used for 4 years is its relatively
small size.  We simply cannot and will not pack in so many people that
the festival isn't enjoyable.  We know there's a big demand out there
for tickets to the longest-running craft beer festival (8yrs) in the region
(and indeed one of the oldest in the country), and we intend to move to
a larger park next year.  Even then, we want to keep it small enough that
our patrons can continue to have the personal contact with the brewers.
The Oregon Brewers Festival is a great event, but it's HUGE, and volunteers
rather than brewery staff serve the beer.  Our patrons enjoy the less
crowded atmosphere and the opportunity to talk to the brewers and learn
about the beer.  There's a place for both kinds of festivals, and we've
chosen to keep the more intimate atmosphere for ours.

If you don't have tickets for this year, mark your calendar for August
19, 1995, and join us for a great Saturday afternoon in Madison!
(For those who want to plan for the rest of the century, it's the third
Saturday in August.)  We offer a great atmosphere, a high quality tasting
glass, and unlimited sampling for a rather low ticket price.  For those
who would be amused by such things, the event is a benefit for our local
community radio station WORT/89.9 FM --yes, that's WORT.  They don't,
however, broadcast a homebrew show ;->.

Write to us next spring for ticket information:
MADISON HOMEBREWERS AND TASTERS GUILD / P.O. Box 1365 / Madison, WI 53701

Cheers!

Bob Paolino
Transplanted in Badgerspace

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Date:          Tue, 26 Jul 1994 14:45:48 -500
From: "Erica Carlson" <CARLSONE at acc.dowling.edu>
Subject:       

subscription request

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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 13:39:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robert H. Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Bottle Carbonation Problems

Paul writes about consistent bottle carbonation problems:
 
> Now...onto brewing itself. I appear to have a consistent problem with 
> under-carbonation in my bottled finished product. Actually, under 
> carbonation is probably the wrong term here....NO carbonation is more 
> appropriate. Some data points. I brew extract based ales with partial 
> mash additions, rack from primary bin to secondary bin and then bottle 
> (using corn syrup as primer). Yeasts are from the extract kit (dry).
<snip>
> I have 
> experimented with increased priming rates, temperature control of the 
> bottled beer and even changed the type of caps I use...all to no avail.


Given that you have experimented with temperature, priming rate, and caps,
I believe the only plausible sources of no carbonation would be excessive
bottle sanitizer left in the bottle prior to filling, or maybe your capper
or capping process does not give you a good seal?   I don't think you could
blame caps unless they lack a good liner.  Even though most retailers don't
recommend using kit yeast - variability due to travel conditions, etc. - it
would follow that if the yeast fermented your beer o.k., it would also 
carbonate your beer, at least to a certain degree.

If excess sanitizer is the problem, you can do a good hot H2O rinse or
use a no-rinse sanitizer.

 -Rob Reed                 

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Date: 26 Jul 94 11:42:58 EDT
From: Charlie Papazian/Boulder <72210.2754 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Home Brewer's Compan'n

Many of you are aware that my new book is out.  I've received a few e'mails
regarding some typographical "miscues" in the book.  Please don't hesitate to
e'mail me directly if you find any  typo's or points that don't seem to be
correct.  The manuscript was proofed, edited and reread several times.  I'm
hoping the oversights are at a minimum.  Thanks for your help.  

I also wish to thank all of you that contributed your comments about two and a
half years ago when I asked for suggestions regarding the contents of my then
"upcoming" book.  Thank you - I believe I've incorporated most of your
suggestions.

RDWHAHB  
Charlie Papazian

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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 07:44:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Cleaning glassware

- ------------------------------
Kirk Harralson gave an interesting tip on cleaning with ice and cleanser
in HBD 1485. 

I've found, as undoubtably many others have, that a cup of bleach in 5
gallons allowed to stand in the glass carboy for a few days (a week if you
have the time) will dissolve the crud stuck to the glass.  Cover the neck
with foil - bleach will do bad things to rubber stoppers over time.  I
still do a quick brushing while the bleach water is still in the carboy
(watch out when removing the carboy brush - the bristles will flick little
bleach drops everywhere).

Something I have never done, but if ever presented with crud the bleach 
can't handle, I'm going to try household lye (NaOH).

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com




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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 19:00:05 -0500 (EST)
From: "Upward, not Northward!" <CULP1405 at splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: Re: Cleaning Carboys

Hello All, this is a short note on what may help to clean a stained carboy.
At the resteraunts that I worked in the waitresses used ice, cut lemon, and salt
to clean the coffee pots. No chemicals. This may work in a carboy though I 
think that you would have a pretty hard time trying to swirl it around the
inside real fast. Good luck,Kirby.


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Date: 26 Jul 1994 16:01:55 U
From: "Mark Fredrickson" <mark_fredrickson at cpqm.saic.com>
Subject: Kegs, Shafted by St Patrick

                      Subject:                              Time:  3:55 PM
  OFFICE MEMO         Kegs, Shafted by St Patricks          Date:  7/26/94
Kegs, Shafted by St Patricks

Im looking for a source for inexpensive Cornelius Kegs (pin type).  Any
suggestions?  

I had a very disappointing experience dealing with St Patricks in Austin,
Texas.  Last April when they advertised the 3 used kegs for $39 deal, I
called and placed an order for 6.  Ever since I have called them every few
weeks and inquired about the status.  On each occasion, they informed me not
to worry, they will ship them tomorrow or next week or...  If they were
honest with me I could have delt with it but...

As you can guess I am still without kegs.  It got so bad that my buddy who
was going to get 3 of the 6 kept sending me e-mail asking when they were to
deliver.  Im afraid he may have gone over the edge making comments like 'the
Homebrew I put in the kegs from St Patricks was so light you can hardly taste
it...'  Im concerned he may be drinking his homebrew direct from the
secondary!! and he's starting to make and lighter and lighter beer to match
his Kegs...

When I called yesterday, suddenly they *'lost my order'*.  No big deal, the
paper it was written on was likely worn out given I called so many times.  I
was more than willing to order again but guess what?!!  Now they want *MORE*
money. Surprise.  I even tried to make a deal with Lynn, the owner, to have
me pay only her cost since I've waited a few months and they *LIED* to me on
a number of occasions about shipping the *DAMN* Kegs.  No dice.  I don't know
how others have been treated by St Patricks.  IM NOT VERY HAPPY.

On the other hand, I suppose since Im so far away it really shouldn't bother
me.  I know my place, just one little homebrew customer.  Im not so
important.  Im sure St Patricks DOESN'T NEED CUSTOMERS.  THEY PROBABLY HAVE A
WHOLE BUNCH OF *EXTRACT* BREWERS WHO are very meek and mild and never, every
raise their voice.  On the other hand maybe they just have ALOT OF *ALL
GRAINERS* FOR CUSTOMERS WHO HAVE HAD TOO MUCH HOMEBREW TO KNOW BETTER.  

Boy do I feel better now.  Thanks for listening.  I apologize for venting all
over the hwy.  Don't think I need a disclaimer.  Just a dissatisfied customer
without any connections...

Feel free to send all types of comments to Mark_Fredrickson at cpqm.saic.com.




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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 18:17:09 -0600 (CST)
From: DARREN TYSON <TYSONDR at SLUVCA.SLU.EDU>
Subject: To drink, or not to drink...

Howdy Brewfolk,

I'm interested in gathering opinions about something.  I recently 
realized just how much I dislike most commercial brews (living in St. 
Louis makes it REAL interesting!)  I have gone so far as to refuse a 
beer that was bought for me (it was a Bud Light, BTW).  I have also 
found myself abstaining from drinking in bars (and even Busch 
stadium!) due to the unavailability of beers with FLAVOR!

I am curious to hear from other beer officianados (read finicky 
beer-drinkers) about what they are willing to put up with regarding
commercial beers.  Anyone with an opinion please e-mail me directly 
and I will post a summary.

May all you beer be homebrewed,

Darren                     tysondr at sluvca.slu.edu


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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 09:45:08 +1000
From: ANDY WALSH <awalsh at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: In defence of Igloos

Richard Webb mentioned Igloo coolers becoming "slagified" by 
hot mashes. I presume he did not use his cooler since he took it
back for a refund. 
I have been mashing in an Igloo for some months now and have
never had a problem with high temps. Admitedly I have not seen
the temp specification Richard mentioned, but in practice,  the
thing is fine for mashing in, for all you would be Inuits. I also have
a Gott and prefer the Igloo, as it is easier to fit a decent tap down
the bottom to replace the crummy momentary action push button
type both come equipped with. This is simply because the Igloo
has flattened off the bit where the tap is, and the Gott is rounded,
so harder to get a water tight seal with a washer. I also prefer the
lid on the Igloo, which is an interference fit, and less fiddly than
the screw on Gott.
BTW, My Gott is labelled "Rubbermaid Gott" and is blue. I thought
Rubbermaid and Gott were supposed to be different brands, and 
that Gotts were supposed to be orange? As I purchased it in 
Australia, it is possibly very old stock, so different to the usual
available in the US. In fact, I have just sold the Gott and plan on
buying another Igloo!
*****************************************************************************
Aidan Heerdegen asked about specific heats of grain. I use hot
water infusions for raising my temps in my Igloo and use the figures:
S=4.2KJ/K/kg for water and grain as 0.4 times that or 1.7KJ/K/Kg.
These figures were in a recent Zymurgy and seem to work, but heat
losses will vary depending upon aparatus and technique, so you must
always use either hotter water than calculated or more of it.
If you want to be anal your water should be preboiled to remove oxygen,
but I do not and have not noticed the effects of HSA. In practice,
the calculations are of limited use, and I either infuse water at about 8C
hotter than my strike temperature until the desired temp is reached (this 
gives around 1 quart per pound in my setup), or in the case of mashout,
add boiling water (gently and slowly, whilst mixing) until 77C is reached
or when I run out of room in my Igloo (10 g). The whole wort is still pretty 
acidic
at this stage so tannin leaching is not a problem. I also do not sparge as
the extra water volume from this infusion mashout means you'll have too
much wort if you sparge. You do require 15% more grain. Alternatively
you can sparge your mash,(in place of infusion mashout) for
better extract if you want that. Infusion mashouts are simpler though, and
produce beer at least as good.
This technique also eliminates the need to transfer the mash to a
separate lauter tun. I use Phil's Phalse bottom and highly recommend it.

How do others use their coolers? Like me, or do you take the grain out to
heat it up to mashout, then put it back again for sparging? Or do you mash
in a separate (heatable) pot, and just sparge in your cooler? There's
been a lot of discussion recently on the wonderful Gott, but less on exact
techniques. The lack of an available internal heat source is a problem,
and I would certainly be interested to hear your comments.

Andy. 








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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 09:45:05 +1000
From: ANDY WALSH <awalsh at ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Fridges as heaters!

Has anyone considered using a fridge to keep your fermenting 
beer warm in winter?
If you were to construct an insulated box to go *behind* the fridge,
encompassing the heat exchange coils, with enough room for
your fermenters in there as well, you would have a warm room.
If you use the same air-conditioning thermostat you use to keep
your lagers cool in summer (inside the fridge) to monitor the
rear enclosure temperature, you could keep your finished beer
cool inside the fridge (hopefully it won't freeze - you could always
leave the door open!) and your fermenting beer just right.
I know aquarium heaters are simpler, but this is kind of elegant,
if it's possible. Any comments?

Andy (again).








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Date: 26 Jul 1994 08:30:25 GMT
From: Simon_W._Bedwell at metro.mactel.org (Simon W. Bedwell)
Subject: Homebrewing in the UK (again)

I'd like to second Brian Gowland's article in HBD1479, and add a few comments
of my own.

First, a digression...
I started brewing with UK kits about 10 years ago. These were the chea
barley-syrup variety, widely available, which required the addition of vast
quantities of sugar to bump up the OG. The result, as I'm sure you'll
appreciate, was a cidery alcoholic pop which bore little or no resemblance to
real beer. So why did I do it? I was a student then and imbibing large
quantities of cheap beer seemed like a good idea; waking up the next day with
a 10-megaton hangover seemed a reasonable tradeoff against the bank balance.
Eight years ago I bought a copy of DODD's 'Big Book of Brewing', read it and
thought 'Hmm, this looks interesting but way too tricky, I won't mash just
yet'. The book was consigned to a shelf and forgotten about. In the meantime,
other kit beers were bought, made and drunk with little purpose other than
consumption of a cheap pint. Then I bought a Glenbrew 3kg all-extract kit
(#include <StdDisclaimers>) and was amazed at the difference. Here was a kit
that tasted something like beer. Then the BrewBug bit; I was hooked. It *was*
possible to brew a reasonable beer at home! So I started reading everything I
could lay my hands on about homebrewing: DODD's book (again), Graham
Wheeler's book, Zymurgy (eventually) etc. I went straight for full-mash and
never looked back.

If there is a point here it is that there's really very little information in
the UK encouraging people to make the transition from cheap kits through the
better all-malt kits to extract and/or grain brewing. Brian is quite right in
saying people treat you like some sort of 'mad scientist' if you mash (and
*dare* to talk about it...). You only have to mention trub hot-side aeration
or sparging and people take you for an Anorak-type. The only group of people
I find don't treat me like this are the CAMRA crowd. I think this is maybe
because if they are interested enough in beer to join CAMRA, they know a bit
more about the brewing process and can understand how full/partial mash
techniques can enable you to produce a beer at home as good as if not better
than commercial beers.

I went along to the 'Homebrew Today' show in Brighton in March. Of the three
dozen or so pitches there, perhaps two or three were interesting to us
'All-Grainers'. The rest of the exhibitors were largely el-cheapo kit
manufacturers. The question I heard most from other attendees was 'Yes...but
how much does your kit COST?'. These very same people avoided the
'All-Grainers' stands like they were dabbling in some sort of witchcraft.
Again; misinformation and lack of encouragement.

I can now buy a reasonable selection of malts in the UK, but I have to buy
mail-order. I can get Halcyon, Maris Otter and Pipkin pale malts, Crystal,
Amber, Brown, Wheat, Munich, Vienna, Chocolate and Black malts. I can buy a
dozen or so different varieties of hops, both loose and vacuum-packed. Liquid
yeasts are just becoming available. Equipment? There is a very enterprising
company in Leeds manufacturing wort chillers, mash tuns, boilers and other
bits and pieces. But there are still only a couple of shops stocking anywhere
near a reasonable range of goods. You *Would Not Believe* the angst I went
through trying to buy a carboy! You can find some types of malt & hops at
many other homebrew stores but the malt will undoubtedly be slack and
expensive, and the hops stale (and expensive).

There is no homebrew society in the UK equivalent to the AHA in the US. I
contacted Graham Wheeler a while ago as I learnt he was intending to
establish such an association, together with a periodic newsletter. I hear
now, from a reliable third party, that the project is unlikely to go ahead.
This is a pity.

My conclusion is that the advancement of hombrewing in the UK was really bad
until a few years ago, is much better now, and is improving all the time. I
don't think it will reach the level of relative sophistication enjoyed by the
homebrew fraternity across the Big Pond for several years. There obviously
has to be a 'critical mass' of interested and dedicated extract/grainers
before the hobby takes off in a big way in the UK.

One final comment to give our U.S. brethren a good belly-laugh. The 'Homebrew
Today' sanctioned beer competition held in Brigton at the same time as the
show was for KITS ONLY! Yes, you read that correctly! The kits had to be
brewed *exactly* to the kit manufacturers instructions, with no additions,
deletions or modifications? What sort of competition is this? One
half-decently brewed extract or grain beer would wipe the floor with any of
the kits 'allowed' into the show! I'll leave you now to pick yourselves up
after ROTFL.

May your mashes never set.


- --
****************************************************************************
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  The views expressed in this posting those of the individual author only.
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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 21:44:34 EDT
From: Gorman at aol.com
Subject: Richmond, VA brew pubs

Private email on the name, location and quality of brewpubs in Richmond, VA
would be most appreciated.

Thanks,

Bill Gorman
gorman at aol.com


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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 13:13:09 +0000 (WET)
From: "Harold R. Wood" <hrwood at uog9.uog.edu>
Subject: mixing ferment

I am curious if anyone has any ideas regarding the mixing
of the fermenting wort early in the fermentation process?
Many laboratory fermentations (bacteria, yeast as well as
animal cells) use active mixing of the ferment.  This may
be done by shaking (in small containers) or motor stirring
or magnetic stir bar mixing in larger fermentation vessels.
I have not seen mention of mixing of the ferment in
commercial brewing operations.  It seems to me that active
mixing might be benificial early in the fermentation.
If anyone has any knowledge or speculation concerning this
I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.
I am posing this question to both HBD and Compuserve.  A
summary will be posted if response is obtained.

Rick Wood    hrwood at uog.edu
 


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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 22:18:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: dsandall at herbie.unl.edu (DARREL SANDALL)
Subject: Information on Champaign, IL

Fellow Homebrewers,

In about a two weeks I am moving to Champaign, Illinois, and I would 
appreciate any information about supply shops (and the people running 
them), brewpubs, clubs/guilds, etc.  Any info would be greatly 
appreciated.  Thanx. 

Darrel Sandall (dsandall at herbie.unl.edu)


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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 21:14:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Newbie kegger question

If only I'd become a welder like my mama wanted, I'd know the answer...

My regulator low pressure gauge and my bleeder valve gauge disagree by
about 2 lbs.  Which, if any, should I believe?  Does it matter?  What do
those 2 screws on the back of the gauge do?  Adjustments perhaps?  

You know, this kegging stuff is pretty fun.  I mean I get to play with
hoses and gauges and connects and high pressure gas.  Filling a keg for
the first time just feels dangerous.  It's almost as much fun as playing
with electricity.  

Thanks in advance.

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com




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Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 21:28:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Wyeast #1338 concensus

There was no HBD consensus.  In fact very few responses - one actually,
and thank you.  The issue was whether Wyeast #1338 (European Ale) was a
mixed strain because when plated there were HUGE colonies and small
colonies.  The only HBD suggestion was that some were metabolically
challenged, and I think not since the small colonies are actually normal
sized (sorry I misled you).  The lab folks consensus here was that #1338
is damn weird, and that the computer guy is nuts if he thinks plating is
fun.  Some of them, the ingrates, actually laughed!  I guess I'll plate
the big ones and the little ones separately and see if they breed true. 
And since the masses are clamoring for answers I'll report back in a
little while. 

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1486, 07/27/94