FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Infusion Mash Outline (part II) (Kelvin Kapteyn)
  Re:using licorice stick (MATTD)
  STOP THE DREADED VACATION PROGRAM (warning: flame!) ("Roger Deschner  ")
  An answer, and lack of skunk (cg0scs)
  CMorris Observations (Mark Garetz)
  Re: IBU's (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Using Licorce Sticks (Chris Strickland)
  German Lesson (Jim Grady)
  nano-review on bacterial contaminants (Thomas Junier)
  5 Liter Mini Kegs with Bung Refills (Chris Strickland)
  Update on Comparison Between Wyeast British and London ESB Yeasts (Mark Peacock)
  1994 Dixie Cup Announcement (/R=SISO01/R=AM/U=slamb/FFN=SLAMB/)
  Agar/Yeast Propagation (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  How do I get digest #1487 (EASCHN01)
  Malto-Dextrin (Douglas R. Jones)
  Hydrometer Corrections (Aaron Shaw)
  Grant's and Fritz's beers (Jeff Frane)
  Alt, Scotland (/R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/)
  Re:Wine Barrels (Jim Grady)
  Lazy way to reuse yeast ("Harrington, Stephen J")
  Thanks for overcarbonation advice (huffmand)
  Hop Utilization (George J Fix)
  rubber messages (Andrew Patrick)
  Re: Anchor Steam recipe (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
  RE: Anchor Steam beer recipe request (Philip DiFalco)
  Learning Tastes in Beer (Logan Dent)
  Cold Box Paint (Lowell Hart)
  Canned beer (Henry E Kilpatrick)
  Want to Visit Anchor (Phil Brushaber)
  Attenuation (JohnNewYrk)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 23:42:00 -0400
From: Kelvin Kapteyn <kelvink at mtu.edu>
Subject: Infusion Mash Outline (part II)

- -----------------------------(begin part II)------------------------

Optional: add heat, or 1 cup water per pound of boiling water per pound of
grain to bring temp to 170 (to 175) deg. F for 10 min.

Sparge with 2 quarts water (165-175 deg. F) per pound of grain.

 -sparging should take 1 1/2 to 2 hours for maximum extraction. Less time
won't hurt anything, but you will leave some sugars in the grain.

* note: your recipe might call for a higher starch conversion (saccharifica-
tion) temperature. To adjust this to a higher conversion temperature, I will
suggest that you add heat after the protein rest to bring the temperature up
by the same number of degrees your conversion temperature is above 150
deg. F (Stir while you do this.) [(conversion temp.) - 28 deg. F = (temp.
before adding hot water)]. Alternately, you can add a little more boiling
water to raise the temperature a little more. Keep a little cold water handy
in case you overshoot your target temperature. It takes only a small amount of
cold water to drop the temperature a couple of degrees.


Three Step Infusion Mash:

Mash in with 1 quart of water (131 deg. F) per pound of grain.

 -stabilize at 122 deg. F mix and let rest for 10 to 20 minutes (protein rest to
develop yeast nutrients and to reduce proteins that might contribute to chill
haze in your beer.)

Add 1/2 quart of water (200 deg F) per pound of grain. (could try 1 1/2 cup
boiling water)

 -stabilize at 149-150 deg. F and hold for 15 min. (First starch conversion
rest.)

Add heat or about 3/4 cup water (boiling) per pound of grain.

 -stabilize at 158 deg. F for 15 min. This should complete conversion, but an
iodine test will verify this if desired.

Optional: add heat, or 1 cup water per pound of boiling water per pound of
grain to bring temp to 170 (to 175) deg. F for 10 min.

Sparge with 2 quarts water (165-175 deg. F) per pound of grain.

 -sparging should take 1 1/2 to 2 hours for maximum extraction. Less time
won't hurt anything, but you will leave some sugars in the grain.

Comments on Above Procedures:

It is a good idea to use preboiled water, i.e. water that has been brought to a
boil then let rest overnight until it cools to room temperature, then siphon it
off from the calcium carbonate deposit and the film on the surface. This
will get rid of chlorine, oxygen, and most of the temporary hardness Houghton
water has (and some other areas).

It is also a good idea to check your mash ph. Optimum ph for both alpha
and beta amylase to be active is 5.2-5.3. Anything from 5.0 to 5.5 should be
OK. In most cases, with preboiled Houghton water, I have had a satisfac-
tory ph. If you need to adjust the ph down, use Gypsum (the most common
case). If you need to adjust the ph up, use baking soda (sparingly, usually
only happens if you have a large proportion of very dark grains, such as for
a dark stout). If you are trying to make a light beer with soft water, such as
for a Bohemian pilsner, you might have trouble with a slightly high ph. In
this case, you will not want to use Gypsum, because Gypsum increases the
hardness (calcium) in the water. In this case, use an acid rest at the begin-
ning of the mash. I have also had success using small amounts (1/4 tsp for
the first try) of acid blend.  Phosphoric acid has also been recommended, but
I have no experience with this.  If this is causing you to worry too much,
don't do it! Things will probably work fine anyway.



Acid rest: for an acid rest, mash in with 1/2 quart water (115 deg. F) per
pound of grain.

 -stabilize at 95 - 100 deg. F and hold for 1 hour. This should drop the ph
by.2 to.3.

Add 1/2 quart water (146 deg. F) per pound of grain

 -stabilize at 122 deg. F for 10 to 20 minutes as before, and continue with
infusion mash as before.

Some authors (Miller) recommend doing a protein rest at 131 deg. F
instead of 122 deg. F. The goal of this temperature change is to convert
more of the proteins that are responsible for head retention in your beer. If
you are interested in this you can try it. I usually do a compromise and rest
starting at 126 deg. F, and I let the temperature drop to 120 deg. F over
about a 1/2 to 1 hour period by leaving the pan on the stove with no heat
being added. I can't honestly say I can tell any difference though. A side
benefit to this might be a lower tendency toward a chill haze, but I don't
have enough experience to say for sure. Fix claims that with good quality
pilsner or pale ale malts a protein rest is not necessary.

I usually use the above formulas as a guideline. I tend to aim for a tempera-
ture slightly under what I actually want, then add a little more heat or hot
water to get where I want. It is safer (in my opinion) to miss slightly on the
cool side than on the too warm side, because enzymes are denatured (deac-
tivated) at higher temperatures more quickly.


This is not meant to be the "last word" on mashing, just some suggestions
and personal opinions. You will also notice a variation in opinion between
books/authors. Let me know how this works out for you, and if I should
make any corrections.



Kelvin Kapteyn

kelvink at mtu.edu


Cheers!, and have fun with your mashing!


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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 18:21:04 -0600 (MDT)
From: MATTD at UWYO.EDU
Subject: Re:using licorice stick

     I just recently made Goat Scrotum Ale with baking chocolate and about
3 inches of brewing licorice.  I added it at the beginning of the boil and
I'm glad I did.  It took the licorice quite a while to dissolve (30 min) even
though I squished into small flat pieces once it was soft.  It gave a nice
complimenting taste to the chocolate.
				Matt Dickey
				University of Wyoming
				mattd at uwyo.edu

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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 11:53:10 CDT
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983 at UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: STOP THE DREADED VACATION PROGRAM (warning: flame!)

********* DO NOT ********* run "the vacation program", unless you first
unsubscribe from HBD and any other list you're on. This is EXTREME bad
manners! We don't want to waste an EXTREME amount of bandwidth on your
itenerary and other drivel which is fascinating to only a very small
number, and which has nothing to do with beer. And worse yet we get this
snowballing reposting of the entire HBD back to HBD!

(flame off. Beer back on.)

And now we're getting Westmalle Trippel at better Chicago Area liquor
stores! Who needs a vacation?

=============== "Civilization was CAUSED by beer." =====================
Roger Deschner    University of Illinois at Chicago   R.Deschner at uic.edu



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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 10:49:00 +0100 (BST)
From: cg0scs <G.A.Cooper at greenwich.ac.uk>
Subject: An answer, and lack of skunk

Jeremy Bergsman (jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu) asks:

>Thanks for the Durden Park
>amber/brown malt info.  Is that 25 color of carapils an EBC rating?

Yes: To be precise the descriptor "carapils" isn't used in the trade in the 
UK, as it is a registered trade name. It is the palest of the available
'carastan' or crystal malts - normally only available direct from the 
maltster as few homebrew suppliers have heard of it.

- -----------

And at a talk given by the Development Brewer of Courage, (Courage are
now marketing 'Fosters Ice' beer in clear bottles) I discovered that they
don't get light stuck problems and skunk because they don't use hops
directly. They use tetrahydroisohumulone which is a reduced beta acid.
I bet you're glad I told you that :-)

Geoff


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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 18:04:21 PDT
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz at hoptech.com>
Subject: CMorris Observations

Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 10:38:56 PDT
From: cmorris at orv.mitre.org
Subject: M. Garetz and Hop Utilization


I would like to thank Mark Garetz for his contribution to the literature
available to the homebrewer.  His book "Using Hops" is an excellent
reference on a broad spectrum of questions concerning hops and
brewing.  My question for the net is to ask if anyone has started using
the "Boil-time utilization" numbers that Mark recommends.  Based on my
experience (and biases), Mark's numbers for hop utilization in the boil
are quite low.  Further, many other references seem to be at odds with
or contradict Mark's numbers.  

For example, the table below lists the results computed with a
spreadsheet that replicates the hop calculations as discussed in George
and Laurie Fix's book on Vienna beers.  The calculations are based on a
typical Vienna with a brewlength of 18.9 liters, Target OE of 13 P, and
Target IBU of 25 (mg/L).  This "typical" beer assumed three hop 
additions with 60, 30, and 15 minute boil times and alpha-acid fractions
of 0.04, 0.05, and 0.03 respectively.  Given these brew specs., the only
parameter allowed to vary in the spreadsheet was the boil-time
utilization values - which were taken from the authors indicated in the
column headings of the table.  Note that for Garetz's numbers I did one
calculation with CA = 1 so that "boil-time only" results could be
compared with the other author's numbers.  In the third column (where CA
was not assumed to be equal to 1), the adjustment factors included are 
the Gravity Factor (GF), Hop Rate (HF), and the Temperature Factor (TF).

                    Fix      Rager      Garetz    Garetz w/CF =1

Total Hops [g]     63.80     70.9       209.7      182.7
Total Hops [oz]     2.25      2.5         7.4        6.4


The question I must raise here is that while the Rager and Fix
utilization rates might not have been optimal  - is it possible that
they were off by a factor of 200% to 220% ???

C. Morris has some observations concerning the utilization numbers as
presented in my book, citing major differences in the hops amounts
called for in George and Laurie's book "Vienna".  Without reprinting
the whole post, C. hits the nail on the head about the real differences
in the following:

>Observation:  Where Mark's boil time numbers have a significant impact
>on hop weight calculations are in the additions with 0-15 min. boil
>times.  It is "commonly" accepted that these late additions are done to
>enhance the hop aromatic content of the beer - aromatics that are
>evaporated off with longer boil times.  The bulk of the literature prior
>to Mark's book however, has assumed that "some" isomerization still
>takes place at these shorter boil times. Fix for example, assumes a 10%
>utilization rate and Rager assumes an 8% rate for additions with 15 min.
>boil duration.  If one chooses (as the Fix's suggest in some of their
>recipes) to have 15% of the total iso-alpha acids in a beer be
>contributed by the 15 min. addition, it is not hard to show that their
>addition must increased by 360%  - if one uses Mark's utilization
>numbers.  For a Vienna I suggest this will result in a hop nose 
>completely out of character for the style.  

The major weight differences come from the late hop addition.  But
lets put this in perspective. 15% of the iso-alphas of 25 IBUs is
3.75 IBUs - not much and slightly above the threshold of a detectable
difference (and a little more above the % error of a measurable difference).
So if one makes the assumption (as Jackie and George do) that you get 8-10%
utilization from a 15 minute boil, and then it turns out you don't (and
really get less) the effect on the resulting beer will be minimal.  
Where the problem lies is if you assume a realistic utilization % for the
15 minute addition (as I recommend) and then really try to get 15% of your
iso contribution from that addition, you are going to need a lot of hops!

So, C. is right, that amount of hops that late would definitely be too 
hoppy for a Vienna (but wouldn't make a significantly more bitter beer
than if you used the amounts calculated by Rager or Fix, in my opinion).

This points up the fact that what is "right" and "what works" can sometimes
appear to be the same.  But as C. has shown, it can also get us into trouble
if we change our assumption about "what's right" without thinking about
why "what we thought was right" also worked.  In this case, an assumption 
about high % utilization for short boils appears to work because the 
consequences if it doesn't work are minimal.  But now changing the % 
utilization assumption to a low one will also work if all we take into
account is bitterness, but obviously falls apart on the hop character/aroma
side, and the consequences are now disasterous.

So I appear to have recommended how to make a disasterous Vienna.  What has
really happened is we have taken some of the assumptions about how to hop
a beer from one source and some from another (but not all from either) and
hoped they would still work.  Sorry.  If you take George's recommendation
on getting 15% of your IBUs from a 15 minute addition and then my assumption
on how to get there, you're going to be in trouble.  But if you follow all
of George's advice, you'll be OK.  OTOH, if you follow all of my advice
(specifically, don't try to get any bitterness from late additions - pg. 154)
then the beer would also turn out fine.

Mark


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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 12:24:30 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Re: IBU's


In HBD 1488 djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones) writes:
> OK. Maybe a silly question maybe not. But what exactly is an
> IBU besides some measure of the hoppiness of beer. My second
> batch came out at 22.5 and my 3rd batch at 13. What do these
> numbers mean?
 
IBU stands for International Bittering Unit (also known as EBU
in Europe) and is a gauge of the bitterness of a beer NOT the
hoppiness of a beer which normally refers to flavour and aroma.
A "mild" beer may have a rating of 20 IBU while a very bitter
beer such as a stout or Old ale may be rated at 50-60 IBU. The
rating is a complicated issue and depends on hop utilization
which refers to how much of the bittering acids are extracted
from the hops - it only applies to the bittering hops that are
added at the early stages of a boil not to the aroma hops that
are added at the end. I think there is a "Hops FAQ" at sierra
 - get that for more info.

     One final note - you have added Saaz hops as bittering hops.
These are regarded by many people as the worlds finest aroma hops
and have medium bittering power. In my opinion it is a waste of
Saaz hops to boil the flavour and aroma out of them. It is also
expensive if you're after a bitter beer.
 
Cheers,
 
     Brian
 

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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 94 08:21:43 -0400
From: stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov (Chris Strickland)
Subject: Using Licorce Sticks

Yes, I'd love to get a copy of your recipe.  Sheesh, my mouth is already 
starting to water.

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Chris Strickland               |   Allin1: stricklandc                      |
| Systems Analyst/Statistician   |   Email : stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 94 8:32:45 EDT
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: German Lesson

Here is something that I hope you will find interesting and
entertaining...

I came across this while looking something else up in my
"Langenscheidt's" German/English dictionary.  A (the?) German phrase for

"he is hopeless" or "he is a hopeless case" is
"an ihm ist Hopfen und Malz verloren" or translated literally,
"Hops and malt are lost on him."

Tschuess,
- --
Jim Grady             
grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com

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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 14:33:41 +0200
From: Thomas.Junier at igbm.unil.ch (Thomas Junier)
Subject: nano-review on bacterial contaminants

Hi all!

There has been a lot of talk about bacterial contamination (e.g.,
Citrobacter) in the recent HBD articles. As a micriobiologist, I had the
vanity to believe I might do something useful, so I checked in
_The_Microbiology_of_Brewing_, Annual Reviews in Microbiology, (1971), by
J. Kleyn and J. Hough, p. 1582. Here's what I collected:

During the mashing process, contaminants are thermophilic (i.e.,
heat-loving) lactic acid bacteria, and these are rare;
When the wort cools, contamination is possible by acetic acid bacteria,
lactic acid bacteria and Obesumbacterium, but this is rare;
During fermentation, the same as before, but occurs more frequently;
During the remaining stages, acetic and lactic acid bacteria, along with
Zymomonas, which is rare;

Now a few notes about these nasties:

Lactic acid bacteria:
these bugs (mainly Lactobacillus and Pediococcus) produce lactic acid,
ethanol (for which we don't blame them :) ), and (not all strains)
diacetyl, which spoils the beer at concentrations as low as 0.2 ppm. Some
strains also produce extracellular slime, which is the 'rope' you sometimes
find in spoiled beers. Other problems include acidity, off-flavors and
yeast flocculation.
These bacteria need many compounds for growth, such as amino acids and
vitamins, and if the yeasts already ate them all up, the bacteria won't
grow. (Maybe this is why a yeast starter is a good thing). They can
tolerate quite low pH values (under 4,5 in beer), as a matter of fact, they
are sometimes deliberately introduced into the wort for the making of
certain types of beer (I'm not sure which, maybe the Belgian white ales) in
order to lower the pH.
Lactobacilli are present in our mouths.

Coliform bacteria (Escherichia coli and Aerobacter aerogenes):
These grow quickly in the wort, but don't tolerate pH values under 4.3.
They produce off-flavors like the smell of cooked cabbage, or sometimes
fruity. Coliforms can be introduced by the washing water, or dirty hands ;)
 .

Acetic acid bacteria (like Acetobacter and Acetomonas):
These cause off-flavors, turbidity, acidity (acetic acid, one is used to
make vinegar); and can also make 'ropes'. Some even kill the yeast cells.
They generally don't need vitamins/amino acids as the lactic acid bacteria
do, so they're one of the most frequent cause of contamination. They too
are resistant to low pH, but they grow very slowly (if at all) in absence
of oxygen. Generally they tend to form a layer on the surface of the wort.
I read somewhere that Acetobacter is carried by the fruit fly (Drosophila).

Obesumbacterium proteus:
This one can *compete* with rapidly growing yeast populations. However, it
grows best at pH = 6.0, and hardly under 4.5 (beer pH is 3.5 - 4.5 if I
remember well). It causes parnsip smell, prevents lowering of the pH and
produces dimethyl sulfide. Important factors are the yeast strain (some are
better competitors than others), the original pH of the wort and the rate
at which it falls during fermentation. I don't know the source of
contamination.

Zymomonas anaerobia:
A strict anaerobe (oxygen kills it, or at least prevents its growth), but
with a high pH range (3.5 - 7.5). Makes ethanol, too, and tolerates higher
concentrations  than most yeasts. Cannot ferment maltose, however, so it is
a major problem only with worts seetened with sucrose/invert sugar.
Produces hydrogen sulfide and acetaldehyde as by-products. These are
bad-smelling, toxic compounds, the former smelling like rotten eggs.
Source of contamination unknown.

Concluding remarks:
 - there was nothing about Citrobacter ;)
 - (opportunistic) pathogens *can* be found: E. coli ant A. aerogenes
 - Gram - negatives do grow in beer, e.g. acetic acid bacteria
 - the article is a bit old (23 years), and it's possible that more is known
about    this nowadays. Names of the nasties may have changed, too. If you
know of a more recent article, please e-mail me.

Well, I'm afraid I used up a lot of space, but I hope it might help.
Cheers!




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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 94 08:28:11 -0400
From: stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov (Chris Strickland)
Subject: 5 Liter Mini Kegs with Bung Refills

I'm going to purchase a 5 liter mini Keg and Tap this weekend just to try
it out.  Since I'm only getting one mini keg to start with, I'll still be
bottling the rest of my beer.  Question:  How to I go about priming using
both methods?  Since the keg requires 1/4 cup of corn sugar, while the
bottles require 3/4 cup of sugar.

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Chris Strickland               |   Allin1: stricklandc                      |
| Systems Analyst/Statistician   |   Email : stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 08:46:12 -400 (EDT)
From: Mark Peacock <mpeacock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Update on Comparison Between Wyeast British and London ESB Yeasts

I bottled my two test batches after two weeks in the secondary.  We'll 
review the numbers after the HBDSummary(tm) of E-mails I received 
regarding ESB experience:

Tom Cannon writes:
I've used the yeast twice, once for an IPA last winter, and once for
a pale ale which we bottled last week.  The winter beer was fermented
at about 68 degrees (ambient temp in my kitchen during winter).  It
took a long time to get going and attenuated from 1060 to 1020 over
a period of about two weeks.  Word I got on the yeast is that it likes 
temperatures over 70 degrees.  I tried it again on the pale ale with a 
1/2 liter starter (total slurry not just yeast cake) and got fermentation 
within 4 hours at 72 degrees (ambient in my basement during the summer 
with AC on).  The beer attenuated from 1052 to 1010 in 8 days.

My conclusions are that it is a good yeast for well attenuated beers 
for summer brewing.


Victor Ialeggio writes of his experience brewing with ESB while running a 
2-week music festival:
 ...give a try at culturing Fullers ESB from the bottle--I've just 
about drunk up a batch made early June, OG=1052, which had been 
dosed with 1 qt starter initially from a bottle--fermentation was 
vigorous after about 6 hours, hit full stride by about 15 hours, 
and ran right out in a matter of three-four days, after which it went
into secondary with some Kent Goldings. 

The Fullers is, I think, the same or similar to the strains you 
mentioned in your review and finished slightly (and pleasantly) 
flowery, perhaps due to the incredible heat wave we had mid-June--
even my basement floor, usually a trusty heat sink, was warm.

My thanks to Tom and Victor for those insights.

To recap my experiment, I split a pale ale batch into two identical 
carboys.  I pitched Wyeast's #1098 British Ale into one and Wyeast's 
#1968 London ESB into the other.  OG = 1.054.  After 3 days in the 
primary, the British was still burping, but the ESB was quiet (similar to 
Victor's experience).  Room temperature during primary was 68 degrees F.

I racked both batches to secondary.  SG of British batch = 1.014 while SG 
of the ESB batch = 1.022.  The next morning, the ESB was burping again at 
about 1 per minute while the British was silent.

Two weeks later, I bottled both batches.  The SG on *both* batches was 
1.008.  The temperature range during secondary was 68-72 degrees F.  
Both batches will bottle-condition for two weeks and then be tasted at my 
son's first birthday party.  I know this is short of the ideal 
conditioning period, but sometimes science has to give way to the 
realities of life.

I'll post the tasting notes as soon as we clean up the cake.

Mark Peacock 
Birmingham, MI

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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 08:08:03 CDT
From: /R=SISO01/R=AM/U=slamb/FFN=SLAMB/ at MRSED.JSC.NASA.GOV
Subject: 1994 Dixie Cup Announcement

The Houston Foam Rangers are pleased to announce that the 11th
annual Dixie Cup Homebrew Competition will be held on
October 14 and 15 in Houston, Texas.  For more information, or to
have your name put on the list for the mailing, call the good
folks at DeFalco's Home Wine and Beer Stuff Place, 1-800-216-BREW.

It is hoped (feared?) that this year's Dixie Cup will garner
800 entries.  Anyone interested in assisting in the judging of these
beers is encouraged to call the number above.  Starting some of the first
round judging on the evening of Thursday, 13 October is being considered.  A
"Beds for Brewers" set-up is possible if enough qualified judges
will commit to arriving on Thursday.

Any questions about the 1994 Dixie Cup can either be addressed to me via
e-mail or called into DeFalco's at the telephone number given above.

Sean Lamb 



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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 94 10:29:42 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Agar/Yeast Propagation

Andrew Patrick writes:

>GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV  Writes :

>>Regarding yeast culturing for the home brewer: I
>>have made some malt/agar plates for growing some yeast, but they
>>tend to run. <-snip-> What's the trick?

>Try obtaining YM agar.  This fortified agar is designed to grow yeast
>and molds while inhibiting bacteria.

There is nothing in YM agar that will inhibit bacteria, unless the pH 
is lowered.  

YM agar (as well as plain agar and a variety of special media) is available 
from the Yeast Culture Kit Company (800-742-2110) in small amounts 
sufficient to pour 20 or so plates.  

Disclaimer: I am not associated with the YCKC, except as a satisfied
customer, and that the proprietor is a friend of mine, who got me
interested, and eventually involved in yeast culturing.  I hope never
to have to buy another tube or packet of yeast again...  Now I buy
slants, instead.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI

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Date:         Fri, 29 Jul 94  10:30:47 EDT
From: EASCHN01 at ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU
Subject:      How do I get digest #1487

I apologize for wasting anyone's time and space, but,  I had a question
distributed in HBD 1486.  Unfortunately, I never received #1487.  I have
tried everyway I can think of to retrieve #1487 to see if anyone answered my
query (about which yeast to use im my stout).
   Are the Homebrew Digests archived?  This is the first list I've not
been able to use the INDEX command to get a list of files.
I have used interactive message and e-mail to send the command to
four different addresses and listnames.  How do you retrieve a digest?
I wanted to search the files anyway some day in the future, so this
would be valuable?
I've sent the command INDEX HOMEBREW and INDEX BEER-L to their
respective listserv nodes and I get nothing.
Thanks for any help.
Eric Schneider

"If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the person who
 has so much as to be out of danger?" -T.H.Huxley
EASCHN01 at ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU or EASCHN01 at ULKYVM.BITNET

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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 09:58:40 -0600
From: djones at iex.com (Douglas R. Jones)
Subject: Malto-Dextrin

I am about to brew my 4th batch. I am in search of body and some sweetness
without a ton of extract. Since the general rule of thumb is 8 pounds of
extract for 5% alcohol, which translates into more calories than I care to
have. So I am using 5 pounds of bulk Pale extract (Alexanders I think), 1
pound 20L Crystal and 8 ounces of Malto-Dextrin. Saaz for bittering and
Kent Goldings for the finish. What does the Malto-Dextrin buy me? I am
assuming this will build the body and sweetness? Am I headed in the right
direction?

Thanks,
Doug
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
'I am a traveler of                |    Douglas R. Jones
     both Time and Space'          |    IEX Corporation
       Led Zeppelin                |    (214)301-1307
                                   |    djones at iex.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------


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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 11:39:22 -0400
From: ar568 at freenet.carleton.ca (Aaron Shaw)
Subject: Hydrometer Corrections

     In a previous article Mark Bunster inquired about correcting
hydrometers at different temperatures. Theses corrections were
taken from Home Brewed Beers and Stouts by C.J.J. Berry.

  Degs.C'     Degs.F'              Correction
   10          50                  Subtract 0.6
   15          59                  Correct
   20          68                  Add 0.9
   25          77                  Add 2
   30          86                  Add 3.4
   35          95                  Add 5
   40          104                 Add 6.8

- --
      "Come my lad, and drink some beer!"
                                           Aaron Shaw
                                           Ottawa, Canada

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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 08:49:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com>
Subject: Grant's and Fritz's beers

Pat Hewitt wrote:

> 
>     As luck would have it, I tried my first Grant's Scottish Ale
> last night and was thoroughly impressed.  I recently departed on
> a scottish ale impersonation homebrew quest, starting with Traquair
> House Ale (Micah Millspaw recipe, OG was 1.125), and noticed the
> posting by Chuck Webb for extract Grant's recepies.  I'll second
> the request, but can we include all-grain suggestions in the responses?
> 
Grant's ale is tasty, granted (although I'm not as impressed as I was in
1984) but it is NOT Scottish and remotedly close.  It's a nice, hoppy
ale.  You ought to be able to get close by judiciously blending domestic
2-row malt, crystal and a tiny bit of black, along with Cascade? hops
(probably one another variety blended in).  Definitely pellets, if you
want to be authentic; Bert Grant worked in the hop business for decades
and will use *only* pellets.


Todd Wallinger wrote:

> 
> I doubt there was ever a trademark issue with Anchor Steam Beer. A 
> trademark must be obtained for each country on an individual basis, 
> and since Anchor Steam is not exported to Singapore it would not 
> be worth Mr. Maytag's time or money to get a trademark there.
> 
The issue, of course, wasn't Anchor Steam in Singapore, but Anchor Beer
in the U.S.  It apparently *was* worth Fritz Maytag's time here, where
he *would* be concerned about trademark restrictions.  Similar, although
less clear, battles could be seen in places like the UK, where Budweiser
was trying to prevent the marketing of Budvar.  Fortunately, the Brits
have more sense.

In this case, I can understand Maytag's concern.  If someone picked up
Anchor Beer by mistake, thinking to be trying the famous Anchor Steam,
he would certainly *not* gain a customer.


- --Jeff


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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 12:01:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: /R=HERLVX/R=AM/U=KLIGERMAN/FFN=KLIGERMAN/ at mr.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: Alt, Scotland

I wanted to use the collective wisdom, etc. of the HBD fot 2 requests.
The first is that I am not able to find a commercial true German Alt
in NC and would appreciate it if anyone can give me the names of
some classic bottled German Alts to see if I can get a distributor
to get in contact with some of the local stores here.  Or better yet
would anyone want to send me a commercial German alt in exchange for
a fine NC Homebrew!!

Seconly, my wife and I are planning a vacation in Scotland in Sept.
Could anyone suggest breweries, pubs, etc. to visit?  Is the weather
acceptable in September in Scotland.  E-mail would be fine to save
bandwidth. TIA

Andy Kligerman (alternate e-mail:  homebre973 at aol.com)



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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 94 12:34:44 EDT
From: Jim Grady <grady at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Re:Wine Barrels

"Progressive Winemaking" by Peter Acton & Bryan Duncan has info on how
to get a used oak barrel ready for home use.  If I remember correctly,
it involves filling the barrel with water and setting it on its stand
for a few days so that the staves absorb the water and seal.  It will
probably leak at first so it will have to be topped up regularly.  When
the barrel is water tight again, I think they had you clean it out with
a washing soda solution and then a very strong sulphite sol'n.  The book
should be available at most winemaking supply stores.
- --
Jim Grady             
grady at hp-mpg.an.hp.com

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Date: 29 Jul 1994 10:06:29 -0800
From: "Harrington, Stephen J" <sharrington at msmail4.hac.com>
Subject: Lazy way to reuse yeast

Is there any reason that one cannot reuse the yeast from the bottom of a
bottle of homebrew?  Since I always do a starter on my liquid yeast cultures,
why not just get the yeast from a previous batch?

I know the recommended way is to save the yeast from the bottom of my
fermenter, but this seems like alot of work, with a high probability for
contamination.  It just seems to me that it might be safer to make a starter
from the bottom of one of my own beers -- and less work ;^)

Any comments would be appreciated.  If I get enough response, I will post a
summary.  

BTW, I am going to bottle that 'Jinxed Pils' tonight.  I hope I can break the
trend I have with this style of beer.

One more thing.  Any good recipes for a partial mash Oktoberfest?  I was
planning on using the recipe in Miller's book.  I think if I get going on it
quickly I can actually have it for October.

Thanks,

Stephen Harrington
Manhattan Beach, CA

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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 94 10:48:30 PST
From: huffmand at ccmail.orst.edu
Subject: Thanks for overcarbonation advice


          A quick thanks to those (3) who responded to my question
          regarding an overcarbonated ale. To summarize the advice I
          received, it essentially boiled down to, "Shaddap and drink
          yer beer!" and "Cool it down, then shaddap and drink yer
          beer!".  Thanks again.

          David Huffman

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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 94 14:04:55 -0500
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Hop Utilization

C. Morris asks in HBD#1487 about the differences in the utilization
figures quoted in the literature. As far as Laurie and my book is
concerned the values quoted came from direct measurements of actual
brews we did using whole hops. Hop pellets are another story altogether.

I have seen ads where labs will do IBU measurements for a reasonable fee.
I feel that backing out utilization rates from these measurements is the
only way that practical and workable values can be obtained for a
specific brewing system. There is considerable evidence (both amateur and
commercial) that there is nontrivial differences in utilization that are
indeed system dependent. Thus we should not be surprised if our values
differ from what another brewer is getting. I am the last one to bash 
mathematical formulas, but unless the utilization figures used in these
formulas are empirically determined the formulas themselves can be next
to worthless for practical brewing.

George


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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 14:02:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andrew Patrick <andnator at mcs.com>
Subject: rubber messages

*********
ATTN:  RICH LARSEN POSTING NOT ANDREW PATRICK
********
Sorry for the bandwidth...

I'll be on vacation for the next <slap>

Sorry.  

HAMMER at esu36.ateng.az.honeywell.COM  Unable to reply to your question
due to bouncing messages.  Please email proper address.

=> Rich Larsen (708)388-3514 HomeBrew University (708)705-7263

(Lost in Cyberspace)

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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 15:07 EDT
From: CSS2 at OAS.PSU.EDU (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
Subject: Re: Anchor Steam recipe

I saw someone posting a request for an extract-based Anchor Steam recipe.
This one is from the Cat's Meow...It is a little darker and a little hoppier
than Anchor, but otherwise it is a dead ringer:

6.6# John Bull Unhopped Light syrup
0.5# Crystal Malt (I use 40L)
2 oz. Northern Brewer Hops
1 oz. Cascade Hops
Wyeast #2112 - California Common Beer Lager Yeast

Steep cracked crystal in 1.5 gal. water until water begins to boil; remove
grain.  Add syrup and 1/3 of N. Brewer hops; boil 20 min.  Add another 1/3
N. Brewers; boil 20 min; add remaining N. Brewers; boil 20 min. more.  Remove
from heat and add Cascade hops; steep for 5-10 minutes.  Sparge into enough
cold water in primary to make 5 gallons. Pitch yeast when wort is cooled.
Ferment 1 week in primary; rack to secondary and ferment to completion.
(ferment as cool as possible for smoother beer) Bottle w/ 3/4 c. corn sugar to
prime.
I made this the first time with Yeast Lab. Amsterdam Lager Yeast (dry) and it
turned out very nicely.  The second time I used the Wyeast #2112 and the beer
was much smoother and cleaner tasting.

Hoppy Brewing
Curt
css2 at oas.psu.edu

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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 94 14:21:49 -0400
From: Philip DiFalco <sxupjd at fnma.COM>
Subject: RE: Anchor Steam beer recipe request


from the Cat's Meow:

7 lbs John Bull plain (unhopped) light malt extract
1/4 - 1/2 lb Crystal Malt
2 oz Northern Brewer hops
1 oz Cascade hops
2 pkgs lager yeast


modified as follows:
7 lbs Telefords Ultra-light malt extract (availability)
1 pkg Wyeast California Lager liquid yeast (preference)
(other ingredients same) 



Brewing Instructions:

Bring 1 1/2 - 2 gallons water to boil with Crystal Malt.
Remove grains at boil.
Remove from heat, add malt extract and dissolve.
Bring to a boil and add 1 oz N.B. hops.
20 minutes later, add 1 oz N.B. hops.
20 minutes later, add 1 oz Cascade hops.
Boil for 10 - 15 more minutes.
__________________________________
Total boil time = 50 - 55 minutes.
Dump wort into fermenter, add preboiled cold water to top off at 5 gallons.
Pitch yeast when temp < 80F.

___________________________________OR_______________________________________

6 lbs. Northwestern Pale liquid X
1 lbs..  Lagglander Pale dry X
1/2  lbs.. Crystal 40L
1/2  lbs.. Toasted 25L
3 oz. Cascade (whole leaf)  5.5%,  60min  (Partial Boil)
1 oz. Cascade (whole leaf) dry hop , one week
1 tsp. gypsum
1tsp Irish Moss
Wyeast London

start gravity 1.053
end gravity  1.010

- ---
email: sxupjd at fnma.com (NeXT Mail Okay)
Philip DiFalco, SIS, Systems & Operation Management Development
FannieMae, 3900 Wisconsin Ave. NW, Washington, DC 20016  (202)752-2812

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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 94 14:51:42 MDT
From: ldent at crash.Colorado.EDU (Logan Dent)
Subject: Learning Tastes in Beer

Hello!
I am curious about some of the tastes mentioned here.  I would like
to hear some suggestions on how to get to know the taste of
say a phenol, or fusel alcohols.  Should one buy a book and 
beers mentioned in it and work it out?  Are brew clubs a good
source for this?  I don't think that I need the complete knowledge 
of an experienced judge, but I would like to be able to better
describe and critique my beers.  Thanks for any help!

Logan

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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 15:45:12 -0700
From: Lowell Hart <lhart at CATI.CSUFresno.EDU>
Subject: Cold Box Paint

A friend of mine had a question, and I decided to ask the net.

My friend has built a cold box for doing some serious lagering and such. The
design details aren't important to the question: What to use to paint
the inside of the cold box? It is lined with high-grade plywood
(including the floor). He needs a finish that will resist water and clean up
easily from the occasional spill. We're assuming that he will need to do an
occasional scrubdown with bleachwater to keep the black crud from growing
on the walls. 

The only idea I had was winery paint, which is an enamel that resists alcohol
and is required for certain equipment. My experience was painting several
tipping grape gondolas with the stuff, but that was over metal. Any ideas?
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Cost IS an object, but don't limit
your suggestions because of this. Answers in e-mail are fine. Gracias.

Lowell Hart
San Joaquin WORThogs
Raketenflugplatz, Fresno
lhart at cati.CSUFresno.edu


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Date: Sun, 31 Jul 1994 11:20:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Henry E Kilpatrick <hkilpatr at mason1.gmu.edu>
Subject: Canned beer

Forget about homebrew for a minute and assume the following:  you have 
been invited to a crab feast that will take place at a pool.  No glass is 
allowed and the situation is such that you must take canned beer if you 
are to have beer at all (isn't it illegal to drink anything other than 
beer with crabs in most states?   If not, it should be).  Which 
commercial product should you buy?  Are there any beers out there in cans 
that have any flavor & go with crabs?

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Date: Sun, 31 Jul 1994 09:45:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Phil Brushaber <pbrush at netcom.com>
Subject: Want to Visit Anchor


I will be out in the San Francisco area at the end of September. I 
thought it would be interesting to visit Anchor Brewery. Does anyone know 
if they give tours? Where are they located? Any brewpubs which I should 
catch while I am up there? I will also be spending a few days in Napa and 
Sonoma.

Appreaciate any tips by e-mail. Thanks!

                                             pbrush at netcom.com


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Date: Sun, 31 Jul 94 15:01:56 EDT
From: JohnNewYrk at aol.com
Subject: Attenuation

When is a wort "fully attenuated"??  I always thought that meant when it had
fermented out, but in Warner's book on wheat beers he talks about racking a
beer when it is fully attenuated -- 48 to 72 hours by his reckoning.  I have
lag times that long and my primaries usually last about a week.

I have a weissbier in it's primary right now, and I've been following one of
Warner's recipes, including a decoction mash.  It just doesn't feel right to
bottle a beer that was in high kraeusen less than 2 days ago.  Has anyone
else read his book and been likewise confused?

I'm going to leave my weissbier in the carboy until it has fermented out and
then I'm going to bottle it.  I wanted to brew a "classic" weizenbier, but I
can't bring myself to follow Warner's instructions.

Anyone???

John


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1489, 08/01/94