FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  RE: Priming Sugar (Gordon Kerr)
  Peach State Brew-Off (Evan Kraus)
  The Funk ("Terence McGravey {91942}")
  Bad Advice in Zymurgy (bickham)
  1st all-grain, pale ale recipe? (mlittle)
  new all-grainer extraction rates (Matthew Howell)
  boiling over ("Malcolm Tobias")
  Re: Wine Barrel Care (Beer and Wine) (David_Arnone)
  Mild Ale (npyle)
  Re: counter-pressure bottle fillers (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Re: making agar plates (Michael Ligas)
  Sorry for length (not on this post); no flames please (uswlsrap)
  re: priming sugar (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
  125 year old ale yeast (todd boyce)
  Vancouver Brew Pub: Sailor Hagars (Jim Cave)
  Cidery Summer Homebrew. (Arturo Portnoy)
  Plastic Fermenter Help Needed (Jim Ancona)
  brewclubs (SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42)
  Re: New Papazian (Guy Garnett)
  Pike Place Brewery's unpopular decision/1/2 bbl keg results/RE: ("McGaughey, Nial")
  Infection/pressure cooker (Andrew Patrick)
  mead questions (CLAY)
  Quebec City Brewpubs ("Dana S. Cummings")
  Re: carbonation problems (John DeCarlo              )
  Dunkelweizen (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Re: Relevance of boiling hop varieties (Randy M. Davis)



******************************************************************
**  NOTE: There will be no digest administration from July 27 
**  through August 7. PLEASE be patient when requesting changes
**  or cancellations.
******************************************************************

Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
  you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU),
  then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! 
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from 
  sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via 
  mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu.  Send HELP as the body of a 
  message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) 
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu


----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed,  3 Aug 94 07:55:26 PDT
From: Gordon Kerr <gkerr at mrc.gdc.ca>
Subject: RE: Priming Sugar 

Does anyone use 3/4 cup for priming?  Yes, I do!  For 5 imperial gal (6US) 
(yield=60bottles), I normally use between 3/4 and 1 cup dextrose for pale ales. 
This gives about .003 increase in gravity.  At this level I still find it takes 
a long time (4 weeks or more) in the bottle to achieve an appropriate level of 
carbonation.  It is definately not overcarbonated!  Could this be due to to the 
fact that I generally leave the batch in the secondary for several months (2 
kids at home...), which probably means there's not much yeast left by the time 
its bottled?

Gordon Kerr


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 8:34:20 EDT
From: Evan Kraus <ejk at bselab.BLS.COM>
Subject: Peach State Brew-Off


The Covert Hops Society of Atlanta is hosting the 
2ND Annual Peach State Brew-Off
this August 20.
This is an AHA Sanctioned competition
If you Win Place or Show in any category at this years competition, 
you will automatically become eligible to compete in the Southern 
Homebrewer of the Year competition coming to Atlanta in October.
This is a Beer only competition
The competition will follow the NEW 1994, 24 Beer Styles Guidlines
published in the Winter 1993 edition of Zymurgy Vol.16 No.5.
Entries will be excepted from August 1-15
Registration/recipe form must be enclosed with each entry along 
with a $5.00 entry fee.
Checks should be made to PBS Covert Hops Society
Each entry must consist of three 10-22oz. brown or green bottles 
with forms attached to each bottle using a rubber band.
Mail entries to:
       P.B.S.
   c/o AMBER WAVES
  2808 La Vista Road 
  Decatur, GA. 30033
For more info either email me or call Harry Hager at 
AMBER WAVES (404) 315-1100
 
Evan


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 08:42:30 EDT
From: "Terence McGravey {91942}" <tpm at swl.msd.ray.com>
Subject: The Funk


Dan Wood wrote :

>I've made infected homebrew.
>My fellow FVHAA homebrewers and I have suffered from identical infections
>on all too many occasions.  While we have unaffectionately dubbed this
>malady "the funk", etc...

 Based on the information you provided I have a feeling you may have
run into a mold problem. You stated most of you brew in the basement
and the problem occurrs in the spring and summer. If you basement is
like most others, then it would tend to get damp and subsequently
moldy in the spring and summer. My basement tends to be dryer in the
fall and winter - heating also helping this to be true. Try moving
your operation from the basement.

 I had one bad batch of beer out of the 15 to 20 batches I brewed.
It was my second and it happened because I topped of the secondary
fermenter by pouring tap water into it - Dumb ! Aeration plus un-sanitized
water caused this. But I refused to toss it. Slightly sour, I drank it
anyway. One of my brewing buddies, who likes to bust em, threw it over
his shoulder at a competition. That was the only one he ever threw
though ! I've kicked his but every time since. So don't despair.

Terry McGravey

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 09:17:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: bickham at msc.cornell.edu
Subject: Bad Advice in Zymurgy

Greetings,

I just finished going through the latest Zymurgy, and for those of you
who don't subscribe, also included in the summer issue was a sheet of
information called "The Beer Basics."  I use the word information
lightly, since there are a number of things that are *not* recommended,
unless you enjoy stuck fermentations and/or oxidized and contaminated
beer.  The problems I see have nothing to do with learning advanced
brewing techniques, but are things that even the beginning homebrewer
should be aware of.  Below will be a list, follow by my comments.

A. Ingredients

   Zymurgy: "Dehydrated yeast is sold in small paper packages."    

   me:  If your yeast is in paper packages, don't use it because paper is
   permeable to air.  Your dried yeast should be in foil pouches and stored
   in the refrigerator until use.

   Z: "Tap or bottled water is fine"

   me: "Don't use bottled mineral waters, and any water added to your wort
   after boiling should be boiled separately and chilled.

B.  Equipment

   Z: "Don't use aluminum (brewkettles)."

   me: This statement is a little strong.  There is no conclusive link
   between aluminum and alzheimers, but the acidity of the wort will
   affect the finish.  I'd rather see someone brew in an aluminun pot
   than not brew at all.

C.  What to Do

1.  Sanitizing:

   Z: "Fill your (sanitized) fermenter with 3 gallons of fresh cold water
   and cover (before adding the boiled wort).

   me: Ordinary tap water has bacteria and other microorganisms.  Preboil
   for at least 15 minutes, and chill before using.

2.  Cooling and pitching:

   Z: "Carefully pour all the (hot boiled) wort into your water-filled
   fermenter."

   me: This invites oxidation, ala Papazian's method of using a strainer.
   Chill the wort as much as possible before transferring, either by
   using a chiller or adding cold water to your brewkettle before the
   transfer.

   Z: "When the wort has cooled to near room temperature, open the lid
   and sprinkle two packets of yeast over the wort.  Work quickly so that
   the wort is exposed to air as breifly as possible.  There is no need
   to stir."

   me:  This is incredibly bad advice, as most brewers here know.  Nowhere
   in this little blurb was wort aeration discussed!  Once the wort has
   cooled, it's *very, very* important to aerate your wort by stirring,
   splashing, shaking, etc.  Do whatever it takes.  Dry yeast should not
   be sprinkled on the wort, but should be gently rehydrated by adding to
   a cup of water that has been boiled and cooled to 90 to 100F.  This
   can be done while the wort is boiling, so it requires no additional
   time.  Also, the yeast distribution is important to a good fermentation,
   so at least stir in into the wort with a sanitized spoon.  Following
   the advice here is a good way to get a stuck fermentation, since the
   yeast needs lots of dissolved oxygen initially to create enzymes and
   build up energy reserves during the lag phase.

I apologize for the length, but I thought it was important to clarify
some of these suggestions.

Scott
- -- 
========================================================================
Scott Bickham
bickham at msc.cornell.edu
=========================================================================

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 03 Aug 1994 09:13:00 EDT
From: mlittle at cclink.draper.com
Subject: 1st all-grain, pale ale recipe?


<<<<<< Attached TEXT item follows >>>>>>
Text item: Text_1
     Hi Folks,
     
     Well, I've completed my acquisition of equipment for all-grain 
     brewing.  The temperature in my basement will (I hope) be down to ale 
     fermenting temperatures by the end of September.  I intend to begin 
     all-grain brewing with several 'practice' batches of Pale Ale.  If I 
     can get the technique down with this style, I hope to use it as a 
     knowledge base for more brewing adventurous beers.
     
     I would like to brew something similar to Geary's, Harpoon, or Sam 
     (TM) Adams (TM) Stock (TM) Ale (TM). I hope to revise and refine my 
     procedures by repeated attempts at the same recipe until defects are 
     minimized and the outcome is predictable.
     
     Question: Is there a recipe you have used that yields a beer similar 
     to the ones mentioned above?
     
     Please e-mail responses.
     
     TIA
     
     Mark
     



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed,  3 Aug 94 09:39:57 -0400
From: Matthew Howell <howell at ll.mit.edu>
Subject: new all-grainer extraction rates

          Greetings!
               Having just recently completed my first all-grain
          batch, a whole new crop of questions have come up.
               I am curious what the differences in extraction rates
          would be between a batch using x pounds of a 6-row malt, and
          one using x pounds of 2-row malt of the same type.
               My first effort used 7 lbs. of pale 6-row Briess malt,
          and 1 oz. (total) of Cascade pellets.  I got an extraction
          on the order of 20-22 pts, using a two step infusion mash.
          I mashed in a converted keg w/ a slotted copper manifold.  I
          kept things simple to more easily spot any gross errors in
          technique, in case any of you were wondering.
               I would appreciate any feedback, and I'd like to thank
          the digest for its wealth of info., it enabled me to have a
          reasonably successful first effort.
                                   Matt Howell
                                   howell at ll.mit.edu


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 08:48:53 -0500
From: "Malcolm Tobias" <mtobias at wurel.wustl.edu>
Subject: boiling over

Here's a thread I've never seen kicked around.  Just before my wort reaches
a boil it tries to foam over the top.  With vigorous stirring I can bring
the foam down.  Once it reaches a rolling boil everything is fine, although
sometimes adding more hops will cause the situation to repeat.  Now, this
always seems to happen when I'm not staring directly into the pot.  Surely
some brewers out there have come up with a good solution to this.

- -- 
Malcolm Tobias
mtobias at wurel.wustl.edu 				...Zmail welcome...
http://jean-luc.ncsa.uiuc.edu/People/Malcolm/HOME.html


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 10:16:39 EDT
From: David_Arnone at Warren.MentorG.com
Subject: Re: Wine Barrel Care (Beer and Wine)


> I would like to query the community out there concerning wine barrels, or
> containers.
>
> In my locality (i.e., New Jersey), I've been unable to locate reasonably
> priced charred oak barrels.  I've been told that old wiskey barrels are 
> acceptable, however they have to be scrubbed.  Not being a cooper, I'm not
> knowledgeable enough to disassemble the barrel, scrub it, then reassemble
> it.  In addition, virgin oak barrels that I have found were of the order 
> of $175.00 each. I have located new 55 gallon steel drums, lined with
> polyethylene, for $56.00 each. 

Yes, whiskey barrels are fine, especially if you are going tp make port
or sowe other form of fortified wine.  Whiskey barrels by definition
are charred and this is not necessary a good thing for wine especially
if you intend to make a white.

The problem with a used barrel is you do not know what is inside and
you don't know how it was maintained.  Whiskey barrels are charred and
the barrel itself contains whiskey - that is OK.  But how long has the
barrel been empty?  In what conditions has it been stored?  55 gallons
translates into approximately 759 lbs of grapes assuming an additional
compensating volume of 15 % :

	55 x 1.15 = 63.25
	63.25 x 12 lbs/gal. = 759 lbs.
That's alot of bad wine (vinegar) if there is a mold in that used barrel.
My first recommendation is, unless you fully understand the risks of
making wine or beer with cooperage - stay away from it.

You mention you are in New Jersey and from the email address in the
military.  You may be near some local wineries (Cream Ridge if you
are near Fort Dix) which may be looking to get rid of some non-charred
oak barrels.  

As for care, you cannot disassemble a barrel.  Once taken apart, a barrel
is useless for containing a liquid.  So DO NOT DISASSEMBLE A BARREL!
If you must, you may manage to get one of the heads off but you must
keep the head wet while it is off and assemble it back in exactly the 
same position in order for the barrel to remain "liquid" tight.

Basic care:
- -----------
If the barrel is new, sap clear or parrafin, place several coats of
raw (not boiled) linseed oil on its out side.  I say at least 2 or 3.
This will help to seal the wood reducing the amount of evaporation
(the wood of the barrel will absorb liquid and the liquid will evaporate
through the outside of the barrel and so on....).  Fill the barrel with
water.  It may leak at first.  Eventually (it better) it will stop
leaking as the wood expands.  Once the barrel is tight, you may treat
the water in the barrel with citric acid blend or potassium metabisulfite
or campden tablets.  Consult you wine books (I recommend "Grapes Into
Wine" by Phillip Wagner).  Before you place the new wine into the barrel
empty the water and treat with a sulfur strip or two.

For a used barrel, the same care above applies.  However you may want
take the head off and scrub with soda ash (washing soda) as Jim Grady
recommends.  Tighten the outside bands, fill up the barrel with water
and let it tighten - no leaks.  Drain the water, dry the outside,
tighten the bands, and cover the outside of the barrel with several
coats of RAW linseed oil.  Let dry and refill with treated water until
the new wine is ready to go in.

What all this is leading up to is what to do with the barrel when there
is no wine in it????  When "not in use" the barrel must remained filled
with treated water which is replaced every 3 months.  When changing
water during the summer, take advantage of the weather to reapply
linseed oil.  Keep the barrel "topped at all times.  Also being a
resident of New Jersey, I find the outside of my barrel to get covered
in mold.  A strong chlorine bleach and water solution applied to the
outside takes care of that problem.

> Either way, I've to make a decision soon on the purchase of a barrel
> since September is very near.  If any one out there in the community
> has any experience with either barrels (i.e., steel or oak), I would
> be interested in hearing from you.
> 

Although prone to leaks, smaller barrels are available in 2 and 30 gallon
sizes.  If you are near Pennsylvania, try giving Ambler Wood Stove and
Beer Supply (yes I wrote this correctly).  They are in Ambler, PA.
I don't have the number off hand.  Another approach is to find a local
winery and find out from where they get their barrels.

Sorry for rambling on - it's good to have a wine maker on line.  Good
luck!

> Paul Wyluda

Dave Arnone
dja at warren.mentorg.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 8:31:06 MDT
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: Mild Ale

Jim Busch gives the following from his mild ale recipe suggestion:

>English Ale Malt for OG of 1.055 (13.8P)

>Counterflow chill and dilute to 1.034 ish (8.5P).  Ferment with London
>ESB and serve on cask hand pump!.

I love the 1968 yeast, and I love the idea of the hand pump, but I think I
would ferment it at the higher gravity for the extra esters that is likely
to produce.  Then I would dilute it with preboiled water.  This, I think,
would give a more interesting low gravity ale.  Actually, this would make
a great side-by-side experiment.  Hmmm.

Cheers,
Norm npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 07:43:20 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: counter-pressure bottle fillers

>>>>> "Dan" == Dan Houg <HOUGD at mdh-bemidji.health.state.mn.us> writes:

Dan> hello group.  Can someone direct me to a source for info on CPBF's?  
Dan> Forgive my ignorance, but just what exactly do these devices do for 
Dan> one.  I would like to be able to bottle kegged, forced carbonated 
Dan> beer.  Is this the device that would enable me to do so?  All replies 
Dan> appreciated and can post a summary if desired.  thanx

Yes, they  bottle kegged, forced carbonated beer.  Exactly their
purpose and nothing else.  Don't know of any literature on them other
than how to use them which is the pamphlet generally packed with one
you buy.  I have made my own and have visions of marketing it some
day.  Big difference with mine is that I use ball valves instead of
needle valves and put it on a stand.  It is really difficult to hold a
filler down into a bottle against 30 psi for a case of bottles.  The
stand and little platform for the bottle allow you to use a 1 foot
long lever to squeeze the bottle between filler and platform making
filling super easy.

Any questions about CP filling, ask away, I consider myself somewhat
of an expert in the field.

dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 10:50:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Michael Ligas <ligas at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Subject: Re: making agar plates

>Date: Tue, 2 Aug 94 11:32:00 CST
>From: Montgomery_John at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
>Subject: making agar plates
>
>    I plan on making some agar plates ala the Zymurgy summer issue with
>    one exception. Instead of using a pressure cooker for sterilizing I
>    was going to just boil the agar/malt solution stovetop. Will this be
>    sufficient or do I HAVE to use the pressure cooker? TIA.

John:

A pressure cooker is not an absolute requirement for plate preparation but
is highly recommended if the plates are to be stored for any length of
time. If you boil, then do it for at least 20 minutes. It would also be
prudent to streak out a given yeast on 2-3 plates in case one shows up
contaminated down the road. If you want to do longterm storage on slants
(something I did not cover in my article) then a pressure cooker for
sterilization is, in my opinion, a good investment. The way I see it, a
pressure cooker is not that expensive an investment when one considers how
much has already been spent on brewing equipment and how much you spend
per batch. Good luck and happy yeast farming.

				- ML -


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 03 Aug 94 11:01:52 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: Sorry for length (not on this post); no flames please            

- ----------------------- Mail item text follows ---------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: Sorry for length (not on this post); no flames please

Before I even read today's hbd I had a friendly advisory on the length
of the header and on multiple posts.

1) This damn ibmmail-er generates the header and I can't do much about
it.

2) But these were particularly long because of my oversight. Bear with
me for the explanation. IBMMAIL is not "directly" on the net. Therefore,
I have to either a) insert a few lines of code, including the internet
address to make it forward to the net or b) once I've sent something to
that address, use an ibmmail generated code that identifies the user.
Obviously b) is more convenient. On my last few intended posts I used
the id that appears when I _receive_ hbd (I1002526) and did not get a
confirmation message. A few days later, I figured out that the problem
is that the id for POSTING is I1010141. I forwarded the previous posts
to the correct address, and not only did they all show up the same day,
but they picked up an additional header and .sig.

This has to happen only once for me to know the correct id for posting.

Sorry again,

Bob Paolino
Transplanted in Badgerspace

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 11:04 EDT
From: CSS2 at OAS.PSU.EDU (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
Subject: re: priming sugar

> to Bob Paolino<

I routinely use between 1/2 and 3/4 of a cup of corn sugar to prime my bottled
beer, and have never had a problem with it (I've kept a few bottles 6-7
months).  The only gushers that I've ever had were from using that  at #&*$%!
Laaglander Extra Light DME (never again!!!).
I find my beer to reach optimum carbonation in 10-14 days and does not get
foamier with age.
Your milage may vary...
Curt
css2 at oas.psu.edu

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 19:38:23 -0600 (MDT)
From: todd boyce <tboyce at bohemia.metronet.org>
Subject: 125 year old ale yeast

A few months ago will watching the discovery channel a program called
beyond 2000 (originating from austrailia) did a segment they called "back
to the future". The story went that a barge had been discovered, which had
sunk (I don't remember the ecxact date) approx.125 yrs ago in the Thames
river in London. While doing a salvage or excavation, to unbroken bottles
where brought up. When opened at a lab they discovered that they were beer.
Or as they said Porter. The beer was bad, but they were able to isolate
yeast and "nurture it back to health. <Break to scene of narrator having a
pint in an english brew pub>. The narrator held up a bottle and I'm almost
sure it said "Flag Porter".

So what temp. is the sludge on the bottom of the Thames? Yeast is
apparently much hardier than is now believed.
Has anyone else seen this show? Has anyone heard of this beer or story
before now? Can you tell me (if you know) where I could research this
further? I'd love to try a Porter (or brew one) with this strain.

What comes after pico? (Homebrews must fit in somewere).

Thanks
Todd Boyce
E-mail tboyce at bohemia.metronet.org



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 9:10:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Cave <CAVE at PSC.ORG>
Subject: Vancouver Brew Pub: Sailor Hagars

	The only brewpub in Vancouver is Sailor Hagars, which started brewing
in May.  It's in North Vancouver, Near the Sea Bus Terminal.
  
	Address:	235 W 1st Ave, North Vancouver, B.C. Ph: 604-984-7669
			Brew Master is Gary Lohin

	Jim Cave, North Vancouver B.C.		

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 12:34:07 -0400
From: Arturo Portnoy <portna at rpi.edu>
Subject: Cidery Summer Homebrew.


o floaties, no cloudiness, etc...).
		Thanks.					Arturo.

Return to table of contents


Date: 3 Aug 94  8:40:21 ES
From: Jim Ancona <Jim_Ancona at dbsnotes.dbsoftware.com>
Subject: Plastic Fermenter Help Needed

In HBD #1490, Phil Miller asks about getting the old beer smell out of his 
plastic fermenter. My suggestion is SUNLIGHT. After each batch, I clean the 
bucket well, then leave it out in the bright sun for a day. It seems to get 
that smell right out of there.  Obviously, you must still sanitize the bucket 
before reusing it. Good Luck!

Jim

(BTW, does that old beer smell remind anyone else of their college fraternity 
basement?)


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 10:53:00 -0600
From: SCHREMPP_MIKE/HP4200_42 at hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
Subject: brewclubs

OK, I've looked in the archives and it's not there...

I'm moving to Seattle and I'm looking for some brewing clubs in the area. I'll
be living in Redmond, so I'm interested in Seattle proper and stuff on the east
side.

Please respond to me on Compuserve at 73764.306 at compuserve.com

Thanks,
Mike Schrempp

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 03 Aug 1994 13:02:44 -0400
From: ggarnett at qrc.com (Guy Garnett)
Subject: Re: New Papazian

Gary Sink wrote:
> I recieved a postcard from the AHA regarding Papazian's new book ...

This past weekend, I picked up Charlie Papazian's new book, _The Home Brewer's
Companion_.  Its cover price is $11, and I found it quite by accident sitting,
next to Dr. Fix's _Principles of Brewing Science_ at the local Olsson's Books
and Records store.  I was also at my local homebrew store (Brew Masters in
Rockville, MD) this weekend, and they didn't have copies yet, although I'm 
sure they soon will.

I'm most of the way through it now (page 357).  Including the appendices and
index, the book is some 445 pages.  I'll try to give a capsule review in the
next paragraph or so, but first I should explain that I'm a new (3 batches)
extract brewer.  I got started with Papazian's _The New Complete Joy of Home
Brewing_, and equipment and ingredient kits from Brew Masters.  

_The Home Brewer's Companion_ seems to me like a very well-done follow-up to
_The New Complete Joy of Home Brewing_.  I should note that it refers back to
TNCJHB frequently - in a lot of ways, THBC picks up where TNCJHB left off - and
I don't think THBC would be as useful to me if I didn't have TNCJHB available
to build on and refer back to.

The first 6 chapters (about the first 100 pages) were the most useful to me.
The first of these covers 'simple improvements', while the rest go into
considerable detail about each of the ingredients used to make beer.  This is
followed by chapters on the equipment and process of making beer.  Although I
found them interesting, most of the information seemed more relevant for
all-grain brewers than to me as an extract brewer.  When and if I take the
all-grain plunge, I will certainly want re-read the relevant sections of both
books.

There are, of course, recipies - extract, mash-extract, and all-grain - for
many different brews.  There are also a beer style guidlines, and a chapter
on beer evaluation (which, along with some of the appendices, I haven't read
yet).

All in all, I feel that it was $11 well spent.  I don't think I'd want to pay
$14 for the privledge of waiting three or four weeks for it to arrive, though.
Check your favorite bookstore or homebrew shop - it should already be on the
shelves.

Guy Garnett
ggarnett at qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                 Hakuna Mutata


Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 03 Aug 94 10:39:00 PDT
From: "McGaughey, Nial" <nmcgaugh at hq.walldata.com>
Subject: Pike Place Brewery's unpopular decision/1/2 bbl keg results/RE: 


Pike Place::::
A sad piece of information for those homebrewers who thought that Pike Place 
Brewery administration was on their side: recently I went to the brewery to 
get my usual yeast sample to homewbrew with. With me was my sanitized 
container, and a bottle of 1.5 year old mead to give to the brewery employee 
who helped me out. This is/was a common practice for the brewery. I was 
informed that the management/administration of the brewery had enacted a 
policy of no longer supplying people with yeast. This was a sad day for me 
as Pike Place has always been friendly to homebrewers, hell they operate a 
HB shop not 1 block from the brewery. Fal Allen, and the other brewery 
employees have been nothing but helpful and kind to me. I find this to be a 
bad piece of business decision making by the people upstairs. If Charles 
Finkel and the other business partners in Merchant Du Vin/Pike Place Brewery 
were to know about the fact that their decision was an unpopular one, that 
homebrewers comprise a large share of their market, they might possibly 
change their policy. This really bums me out. Pike Place/Merchant Du Vin's 
business office can be reached at (206) 322-5022. call them and let them 
know what you think about this. I know I have..

1/2 BBL kegging results.
This last saturday I got my new converted Sankey up and going. It is done up 
as a drain plate type with a pickup tube going to a TEEL SS ball valve 
cheesy ASCII follows:

|         | top 'o' keg
|         |
|           _|
|          / ~====  ball valve
|         / /~====
|        / / | *SIDE VIEW*
|       / /  |
|         / /<--------PU tube
\     / / /
 \  _ _ /_/ _ </--------- drain plate
  --\_______/--

the drain plate is ~ 4" round and had 1/8" parallel slots ~3/8" apart and 2" 
long running through it. The plate has a slipring collar in the middle of it 
in which the pickup tube goes through. The plate's side sit on the bottom of 
the keg, providing a 1/2" space underneath it.

I used a propane fired 'cache cajun cooker' rated at 135K BTU, it brought 15 
gallons of 60 deg tapwater to a boil in 20 minutes. I did a partial 
decoction mash with my rubbermaid cooler (Ive now ran out of space there, 
thanks..) and used the cooker to boil the 'first runnings' from the strike 
mash to raise the temp up to 155 deg. my recipe follows:

5 oz kent goldings  at  5.1 AAU
30 lbs M+F pale ale malt
3 lbs 80'L crystal

I then let the mash sit for 45 mins  at  155 deg to fully convert. meanwhile I 
was heating up the 15 gallons of sparge water up to 170 deg. First runnings 
from the picnic cooler were coming out at a high rate of speed, so I slowed 
the runoff rate down, and kept sparging and then recirculating for about 30 
mins (3 times recirculated). I got about 17 gallons of wort (aaagh!!), so I 
put 14 gallons in the keg and put the rest aside. I boiled with most of the 
hops for 70 mins, and then boiled the remaining 3 gallons for 30 mins. the 
wort was a little 'coarse' smelling but I attribute that to the poor 
condition of the hops I used. The hot break was pretty good, but the wort 
was qute cloudy, in spite of a settling period of 15 minutes.I stuffed my 
now woefully inadequate immersion chiller right into the keg for cooling 
purposes. The drain plate worked quite well in keeping out the gunk and 
hops. The TEEL valve areated the wort nicely as it came out, as I had no 
drain off tube on the side of the keg, and the wort shot out the side of the 
keg, and had to be aimed into the appropriate brewing vessel.

 notes from the session: 'need a drain tube for racking' 'two people is a 
must for carrying purposes' 'investigate different wort chiller ?counterflow 
time?' 'need a better racking system for the picnic cooler to keg transfers'

End result: 16 gallons of 1.054 wort, split into 3 batches, 1 fermenting in 
plastic, 1 in a carboy, and 1 in a cornelius keg. all a doing nicely, but 
the 'father' is a little worse for wear.. I used up about 1/4 of a 20 lb 
tank of Propane, and got some fresh air... _very_ tired at the end of the 
day.

RE: budweizer

>Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 10:16:26 -0600
>From: evanms at lcac1.loras.edu (Mark Evans)
>Subject: Gossip/Whining/Bandwidth/Purpose?

>Is it just me or do I sense an awful lot of bandwidth being used for Gossip
>and whining about the heads of established breweries and other individuals?

I personally find the trivia about Budweiser/ Koch uber alles(TM) to be 
quite enlightening. The stories told here get a lot of mileage from me with 
my BudMilloors swilling friends, who I'm slowly getting to see the light 
about beer. The info about the SA's recipe origins are quite hilarious..

Yours in Conspiracy(TM) Theories(TM), Lots 'O' Beer, and yeast deserts(the 
sandy kind),
Nial McGaughey
Wall Data Product Development

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 13:33:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andrew Patrick <andnator at mcs.com>
Subject: Infection/pressure cooker

********************************************
* Don't blame Andrew Patrick for this post *
* Rich Larsen posting                      *
********************************************

 wood at ranger.rtsg.mot.com (Dan Wood) writes:

>My fellow FVHAA homebrewers and I have suffered from identical infections
>on all too many occasions.

I'd like to say something humorous about this line, but I can't think
of anything tasteful :-)

>The facts: (About the funk)

>1. I'd guesstimate that between us, about 2-4 batches per hundred are
>affected to varying degrees.  Way too much brew is being used as
>drain cleaner.

agreed.

>2. The infections mostly occur in brews made in late spring and summer.

Probably you already guessed it is seasonal.  This time of the year is
especially active in the microflora.  I read somewhere that the worst day
of the year to brew is on June 21.

<snip>

>4. It smells of rotting vegetables (definitely not HSA), and has a slightly
>sour taste.  The smell is much worse then the taste.

Production of DMS and acids (either lactic or acetic) will cause these
characteristics.  Sounds like its pointing towards a bacteria infection.

>5. The degree of infection grows exponentially with longer lag times.

More evidience supporting bacteria.  Long lag times allow the bacteria to
multiply before the drop in O2 content and ph in the fermenting beer puts
the bacteria to sleep.  (correct me if I'm wrong here HBDers (I know
you will :-) ))

<snip>

>8. It has happened regardless of whether the siphon was started by
>mouth-to-straw or prefilling the hose with water.

It is probably an airborn organism.  Close windows when brewing, banish
the pets to outdoors, turn off fans, let the room air settle before
transfering cooled wort or racking, grind grain away from transfering
areas.

>9. It is evident in the primary carboy, not caused by racking, kegging,
>or bottling.

see comment to number 8.

>10. It has been carried from one batch to another where yeast from the
>secondary was reused.  This happened once, I've stopped reusing yeast.

I assume you mean the first batch was ok, but the second batch was
spoiled.  The "bug" may not have gotten a good foot hold in the first
batch but built up enough numbers there to get going in the second
batch.  You could wash your yeast.  See yeast FAQ.

>I managed to avoid it on my last batch (fingers crossed) through use of
>extreme sanitation procedures: 1+ hour bleach-water soaks, rinsing in
>preboiled water, misting all surfaces with vodka, etc.

I used to get the "Chicago" infection (a wild yeast I think) when I used
bleach as a sanitizer.  Tasted like a cross between chalk and burning
electronics (Those of you from the Windy City who remember Tap & Growler's
lagers know what I mean)

After I lost 3 batches in a row to this beast, I got serious.  I now use
straight 3% Hydrogen peroxide to sanitize and rinse briefly with water.
Haven't had a re-occurance since <kok... kok, sound of knocking on wooden
head> and stuff doesn't smell like bleach when I'm done.  One note, use
rubber gloves when using peroxide.  It tore up by finger tips so bad that
I was sporting band-aids almost constantly.  I finally put two and two
together and figgered out that my fingers would split open about one week
after every time I brewed (duh!).

>The option of not brewing in spring/summer is very painful to me.

It can be done, and it doesn't have to be painful!

*******

From: Montgomery_John at lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil asks :


>    I plan on making some agar plates ala the Zymurgy summer issue with
>    one exception. Instead of using a pressure cooker for sterilizing I
>    was going to just boil the agar/malt solution stovetop. Will this be
>    sufficient or do I HAVE to use the pressure cooker? TIA.

To insure that the agar is sterile, it must be autoclaved.  Since autoclaves
are a bit beyond most HBers budget, a pressure cooker works just about as
well.  The temp gets above the 212F boiling point of water due to the pressure
of the steam.  This will wipe out the nasties and their spores.  Nasties
being a technical term.

You don't HAVE to do it, but you'll have a better chance of success if you
do.

=> Rich Larsen (708)388-3514 HomeBrew University BBS (708)705-7263

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 03 Aug 1994 15:03:26 -0500 (EST)
From: CLAY at prism.clemson.edu
Subject: mead questions

I have had a batch of mead going for 12 days now.  Has been fermenting 
vigorously the whole time.  Smells fine (as such things go) but I am 
beginning to worry if fermenting for this length of time so actively is
normal.  I used 13.5 pounds of light honey in a Williams Brewing Co. 
"mead kit" and followed the directions.  Did not take hydrometer reading
before putting in carboy (I know, I know...)  Carboy is in water bath
at 80 degrees F in pantry.  any and all comments appreciated, private
email or in digest if of broad enough interest.  
thanks,
C.

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 15:34:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dana S. Cummings" <dcumming at moose.uvm.edu>
Subject: Quebec City Brewpubs

If anyone out there in HBD land has any info on Quebec City Brewpubs 
would they be so kind as to email it to me.  Many thanks in advance.  


Dana Cummings
dcumming at moose.uvm.edu
Burlington, VT



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 15:37:26 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: carbonation problems

Someone complained about not getting any carbonation and lots of good 
possibilities were posited.  Let me add one that I didn't see mentioned.  The 
original poster mentioned using "corn syrup" for priming.

In my part of the U.S., there are some corn syrup products which have 
preservatives in them.  This would definitely be harmful to the yeast and 
therefore to bottle carbonation.

Just an idea.



Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 11:16:53 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Dunkelweizen

A while back I posted a quest for dunkelweizen recipes.  I got lots of
advice, and decided to follow this one from Steve Dempsey (others
had similar advice):

  [Eric Warner] says that any real dark German beer gets its color
  from the medium/dark munich malts.  Using the roasted malts like
  chocolate will give you plenty of color but not impart the right malt
  flavor profile.

So, cutting the "shuck & jive", here's the recipe:

	2.5 lb Belgian (DWC) Munich malt (8L)
	5.0 lb Belgian (DWC) wheat malt
	0.4 lb Ireks dark crystal (90L?)
	0.1 lb Chocolate malt

Mash schedule (double decoction)
	Strike with 2.75gal  at  56C
	30 min 52-51C
	decoct 40%
		15 min raise to 70C, 15 min rest
		15 min raise to 100C, boil 30 min
	return decoction, raise mash to 60C.  
	Take 6 quarts, heat to 70C, return to mash get 63C
	30 min rest
	Take 6 quart 2nd decoction, 
		heat to 70C over 10 min, rest 20 min
		10 min raise to boiling, boil 20 min
	Return decoction, raise mash to 70C
	60 min rest
	Sparge 7 gallons  at  1.031 (oops -- low!)

Boil 1:30, hopping:
	20g Hersbrucker  at  T-60min
	8g Hersbrucker  at  T-15min

Collect 5 gallons  at  1.042 (Again, lower than target)
Pitch YeastLab W51 from starter.

Fermentation ran for 14 days between 70-75F (I think it was done after
7, but I didn't have time to bottle).  Bottled with 1c corn sugar.
Warm conditioned 1 week to carbonate
Cold conditioned 4 weeks  at  50-45F.

Tasting notes:

It's missing the real MALTiness I was trying for, but at least some of
that can be attributed to my lousy extraction rate (which I attribute
to a bad Corona crush -- I opened it up too much so as not to burn out
the motor on my electric drill).  The clove character is there, and
it's not highly banana-y (surprising, given the fermentation
temperature).  A nice beer, but not the award-winner I had hoped for.
(It got a 32/50 in our club's Weiss is Nice taste-off.)

Next time:

What will I do to improve it?  Several things:
1. Better grain crushing.  Either crank the Corona down & buy a new
   drill, or borrow a friend's MaltMill.
2. Try roasting some of my own dark wheat malt and/or dark Munich to
   replace the dark crystal & chocolate malts.
3. Tune in my decoction procedure better.  I never manage to hit my
   sugar rests right the first time, but with practice, I'll
   eventually figure out how much to take.  Also, I'll try doing a
   starch test after the sugar rest during the decoction(s).  I think
   I may have underconverted during these rests, leading to overall
   conversion problems.


=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI

Return to table of contents


Date: Wed, 3 Aug 94 13:42:44 MDT
From: Randy M. Davis <rmdavis at mocan.mobil.com>
Subject: Re: Relevance of boiling hop varieties

Paul Sovcik recently asked;
>Does it really matter what variety of hop you use when you are using
>it as an early addition?
Yes it does matter as not all IBU's are equal. That is, there can be a vast
difference between the bitterness imparted by two hop varieties even if the
number of IBU's are the same. For example if you use sufficient Chinook to
produce 30 IBU's and make the same beer with 30 IBU's of Perle (or another
variety) the resulting beers will not be the same. The Chinook batch will
have a much more noticable harsh bitterness than many other lower alpha
varieties. 

>I mean, all you really want to get out of it are bittering units, and the
>varietal-specific aromatic characteristics are  going to be boiled off
>anyway.
The aroma and flavor (other than bitterness) will be boiled off but the
characteristics which result in smooth, harsh or astringent bitterness
will not.
 
>Therefore, might it be not a whole lot cheaper to buy super high alpha
>hops and dole out small, carefully measured amounts for the 60' boiling
>additions?
I used to do just that. I would use a small amount of Chinook for base
bittering and "noble" varieties for finishing and dry hopping. I produced 
good beer and yes, it was cheaper. At some point I decided to try the same
recipes with "noble" hops only and found a marked difference. In most cases
the resulting bitterness was much smoother and enjoyable and my beers are
better for it. My theory now is that the choices made for bittering hops
are just as important to the finished product as the choices made for late
additions and dry hopping. 
 
>Or am I missing something....  is using Saaz as a boiling hop going to
>make my beer taste significantly different than using an equivalent (in HBUs)
>amount of Eroica?
Although I don't have any experience with Eroica specifically, I would guess
that there would indeed be a noticable difference. 

These comments are the results of my own experiments and some of you may not
agree. If so, I welcome other opinions.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Randy M. Davis: Mobil Oil Canada            Calgary, Alberta  Canada    |
|                 rmdavis at mocan.mobil.com                                 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Return to table of contents

End of HOMEBREW Digest #1493, 08/05/94