FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  How much head, etc... (Ulick Stafford)
  Mystery Marzen ("Trilling, Michael H")
  RE: 125 Year Old Porter (Bill Ridgely FTS 402-1521)
  NEW hop harrasment.  Ants!  /HBD 1492 KillKillKill (COYOTE)
  Re: agar plate sterilization (Erik Speckman)
  Drying in Mini-Kegs (Chris Strickland)
  sanitizers/which is better? (Victor Franklin)
  Grape Nuts(tm) Pale Ale ("Glenace L. Melton")
  not priming/hop poles w/ pulleys (Alan P Van Dyke)
  Christmas Brew Formula's (Ed Blonski)
  Boilover Made Easy... ("Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616")
  Re: Barrels (David_Arnone)
  woodchuck and pale ale ("Mark J. Wilk")
  Waste Water Management (Al Vaughn)
  pressure cookers ("John L. Isenhour")
  Re: unusual fermentation (& ``funny tasting'' extract) (Seth Kroger)
  Counter Pressure Fillers (Don Rudolph)
  Dry hops/pressure cookers/hydro correction/Anchor Porter? (David Draper)
  Re: Brewing in California ("Mark B. Alston")
  Gas Cylinders (Dave Smucker)
  Re-using yeast ("LYVER,ANDRE,MR")
  Mixxocydin/QUATERNIUM-12 = Good Stuff??? (Jack Skeels)
  Polyclar (GONTAREK)
  Water Bath Cooling (Chris Strickland)
  re--beginner's guide (George Tempel)
  Using Green Beer to Prime (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Bacteria in tap water (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Using Green Beer to Prime (Chris Strickland)
  Beer Labels (Dean J Miller)
  WORRY No More (lavist)



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Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 12:05:50 -0500 (EST)
From: ulick at ulix.rad.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: How much head, etc...

I am considerein building a wort chiller.  Most likely I will build the 
oter part from PVC pipe. rather than a hose, and coil tubing insde with
baffles so the flow does not channel.  However, the outer shell aside,
I am quite worried about the inner tube.  Therefore I would like to survey the 
users of counterflow wort chillers with the following questions.

1) How much head?  Ideally, I want to use no more than 2 feet, because 
safety rule number one in my brewery is that a pot of boiling wort is
never ever moved.

2) How long?  Diameter?

3) Hopback or not?

4) How long does it take?

5)  How close does the outlet wort temperature get to the coolin inlet 
temperature?

6) Can it perform aduquately with summer cold water temperatures?

Email or post.

(I wonder are editors of Zymurgy drunk the whole time or what?  The number
of errors that they print in a rather thin magazine that comes out a mere 5 
times a year amazes me.  And it is so nice that they spend all that money on 
postcards to tell me that I can buy CP latest book from them for $3 more than 
the cover price because they like me.  I am sure any bookshop around here 
could get it for me in a couple of days and charge cover price?)
__________________________________________________________________________
 'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ...  | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.  
    Pabst Blue Ribbon!'               | Notre Dame IN 46556
   http://ulix.rad.nd.edu/Ulick.html  |    ulick at darwin.cc.nd.edu   


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Date: 8 Aug 1994 10:07:58 -0800
From: "Trilling, Michael H" <mtrilling at msmail4.hac.com>
Subject: Mystery Marzen

Here's one for all the experts out there...

I made a partial-mash Marzen (a la Miller).  I even used the recipe out of
his book which I am including in this post.

Grains: 1lb 2-row malt (I used Bavarian Pilsner), 2.5 lbs Munich Malt, 4 oz
40L crystal malt

Malt Extract:  3lbs light DME, 1lb amber DME

Bittering Hops:  6 AAUs Perle

Finishing Hops: None

Yeast:  Wyeast Bavarian

Priming Sugar:  3/4 cup corn sugar

Gravities:  1.056 OG;  1.012 - 1.016 FG

Now to my question.  When I took the OG it came in at 1.078?!?!  How can this
be?  I took into account temperature, and I even let it sit for 2 days so any
suspensions could settle out.  I even went so far as to borrow a buddy's
hydrometer and got the same reading.  What could cause this?  What if I got
no conversion during my mash and only washed starch into my wort?  How does
starch come into play with SG readings?  What else could be in there causing
the reading to be so high?  Is the only answer that the brewshop guy measured
my ingredients wrong?

I would greatly appreciate any insight into this mystery.

An unrelated question.  I really want to go to all-grain, but I do not think
that I can convince my significant other that spending $100+ on a huge
brewpot is a 'wise' investment.  I currently have a 5 gallon SS pot.  My
question is does anyone know of an easy way to figure out how much extra
grain to add to a recipe in order to get the correct OG and still only end up
with about 4.5 gallons of wort?  Does it make sense to try and do this?

Thanks,

Stephen Harrington
Manhattan Beach, CA

Thanks to Mike Trilling for sending this for me...My mail account is acting
up


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Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 11:34:00 EST
From: Bill Ridgely FTS 402-1521 <RIDGELY at A1.CBER.FDA.GOV>
Subject: RE: 125 Year Old Porter

  In HBD #1493, Todd Boyce asks about the 125 year old porter yeast dredged
  up from the Thames:
  
     >Has anyone else seen this show? Has anyone heard of this beer or story
     >before now? Can you tell me (if you know) where I could research this
     >further? I'd love to try a Porter (or brew one) with this strain.
  
  Steve Tollefsrud posted about this discovery some time ago. I dug up the
  original posting and will repost here for the general interest.
  
  Bill Ridgely
  ridgely at a1.cber.fda.gov
  
  Repost follows:
  
  Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 11:24:25 +0100
  From: steve_T at fleurie.compass.fr (Steven Tollefsrud)
  Subject: Old Porter Brewed using Salvaged Yeast
  
  In response to someone's not so recent interest in this story, I dug around
  in my dusty archives and found a copy of an article which I clipped out of
  the Int'l Herald Tribune (Nov. 29, 1991). The story is written by Steven
  Prokesch of the New York Times Service. 
  
  It is about the successful efforts of a microbiologist, Dr. Keith Thomas,
  to cultivate yeasts taken from two bottles of Porter recovered from a ship
  that sank in the English Channel in 1825. He is now brewing Porter from
  this yeast with a Porter recipe from the same era taken from the archives
  of Whitbread. The significance of this beer is that it is an example of
  what true Porter was like in the early 19th century and how, over time,
  yeasts have changed through genetic mutation and brew recipes have changed
  in response to consumer mutation.
  
  The name of this brew is Flag Porter and Bottle Green. At the time of the
  article, only about 4000 gallons per year were being produced. Flag Porter
  and Bottle Green were being wholesaled by Vinceremos Wines Ltd. and most
  of it was being sold through restaurants, specialty liquor stores, health
  food shops, and pubs in the UK, though, according to the article, they were
  hoping to start exporting to the U.S. in 1992. 
  
  This is a very interesting story for this forum, and I have not done it
  justice with the scant details I have included here, but I don't know
  whether it is legal to transcribe it without permission from the
  publication or the author. Can anybody advise me on this?
  
  I hope that this info has been useful for the person who was asking about
  it.
  
  Steve Tollefsrud
  Valbonne, France
  
  e-mail: steve_T at fleurie.compass.fr
  


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Date: Mon, 08 Aug 1994 11:19:11 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: NEW hop harrasment.  Ants!  /HBD 1492 KillKillKill

Yo Ho Ho.

Went out this morning to fondle my cones.  Found a new source of concern.
A friend had a theory that his hops were devoid of spider mites due to
the fact that he had big black ants running up and down the vines protecting
them.  The other day I was pleased to observe some med-sized black ants
winding their way around mine.  I thought, "good...they'll keep the mites
down".  This am I went out and found a large congregation of ants on a lower
region of the stem.  I thought- aha! They must be feasting on some earwigs
or something like that. 

After closer observation I discovered they were: Chewing on my vines!

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarghhh  (as Charlie Brown would say)

There was a location where they had broken the outer skin and a mass of 
them were greedily sucking the precious juices that SHOULD be pulsing upward
to my precious cones. 

Well, needless to say, ants are no longer welcome on my vines!
(I generally don't care for them anyway)
I don't know if they help reduce mite populations or not. Perhaps it 
depends on the type of ants.  I just don't know or care.

SO: I grapped the hose and sprayer, and soaked em.  Blasted the bastards!
(not enough to hurt the vine).

Question:  Can Diazonon pellets applied to the ground around the base of
a plant be absorbed by the plant and tranlocated to my precious cones?
Or can I safely NUKE the bastards!  I have no intention of applying the
toxin TO the plant, just the ground around the base.
It's been effective at encouraging ants to relocate elsewhere, I just don't
want to be making diazanon double bocks this fall!

As for other pests:  I haven't seen much sign of the mites at the new house
(k-nock on head!), but I have had a fair bit of leaf chewing.  
Exploration at night- via flashlight- has revealed the presence of earwigs
(on basil, and most all the other plants in the garden too!) on leaves.
They are known leaf niblers.  Not a welcome sight, plus they look like 
something out of a cheap mystery science sci-fi flick, so I don't like 'em!

Diazonon is also effective against those buggers.
I haven't seen signs of the Jap-Beetles, and my grapes don't show signs of
damage (if they truly are MORE attracted to them).  

My Old hop plants have been DEVESTATED by spider mites. Murphy's Oil soap
is an organic approach, but I haven't heard much more than that mites don't
like water.  So I guess an underleaf shower could be of help.

***

In other news:  Here's my vote for the biggest load of crap I've seen
in a long time. (glad the administrator is back by now!)

		HBD # 1492    Resend my buttox!  
		Who/What is OAKQM3 and the other culprits?
		Has anyone publicly or privately SLAMMED these buggers yet!
		Flame on Johny Torch!   KEEP that CRAPOLA out of the digest!!!


***

Pressure Cookers:   My 2c.  I got a 6 qt number. Problem is it is so short I
am limited to very small vessels.  It cost me ~$30.  But in hindsight I 
would gladly trade it and the $20 more for a taller one.  I am limited to the
pint mason jars, and 250 ml ehrlenmeyer flasks.  Kinda a hassle.

Go ahead and check the cheap outlets for a tall one.  It'll be worth your while


As for sterilizing plates:  You should get pre-sterilized plastic petri plates.
They are not- and will not be autoclavable.  You could use UV light, or
other chemical methods.  But also (to add to the difficulty) plexiglass 
blocks UV.  Some plastics will also to a certain degree.

SO: maybe you find unsterile ones cheap.  Spend a bit more, get presterilized.

You can find glass petri plates.  They are autoclavable. But are also more
of a hassle overall-  IMHO.  The best way to go: sterilize your wort/agar 
and THEN pour into presterile plates.

As for slants- I go the other route. Make agar/wort, pour into tubes-
autoclave, and then cool on a slant.  THe trick is to keep the caps loose
during autoclaving and cooling or the pressure changes will destroy the
tubes.


And as we are all so fond of saying		YMMV.

	John - The Coyote - Wyllie	SLK6P at cc.usu.edu


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Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 10:18:03 -0800
From: especkma at romulus.reed.edu (Erik Speckman)
Subject: Re: agar plate sterilization

Mark Gugle asks how to sterilize plastic culture dishes.

The simple answer is you don't. They should be largely bacteria free, if
not outright sterile before you unwrap them.

When we prepare agar plates for bacterial cultures in the lab we heat the
sterile agar until it is liquid and pour it immdiately into the dishes.
This is done in the presence of a lit bunsen burner which cretes a thermal
air current that theoretically keeps bacteria from falling into the dishes.
We cover the dishes and let them cool.  When they have solidified we
invert them to keep condensation from falling onto the media and and store
them in the fridge until we need them.

When we are feeling really anal we use  a culture hood.  It is a box that
opens across the bottom and has plexi glass across the top to look through.
It has a bacteriocidal UV lamp in it to provide a sterile environment.
The lamp is switched off before use and need only be on 60-90 minutes
before and after each session.

Your mileage may vary.

_____________________________________________________________
Erik Speckman
especkma at halcyon.com                        especkma at reed.edu



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Date: Mon, 8 Aug 94 13:42:35 -0400
From: stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov (Chris Strickland)
Subject: Drying in Mini-Kegs

Has anyone tried dry hopping in a mini-key?  Just curious about stuffing some
hops into the kegs before filling.

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Chris Strickland               |   Allin1: stricklandc                      |
| Systems Analyst/Statistician   |   Email : stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 10:51:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: uswnvg!vfrankl at uunet.uu.net (Victor Franklin)
Subject: sanitizers/which is better?

Hi all! another question......

I am currently using iodine to sanitize my equipment with a quick water
rinse after to make sure i don't get any flavor from the iodine in my
beer. I hear/read of alot of different types of sanitizers.

 what is the most effective methods of home sanitation???
                      -or-
what are the most effective/best options out of the many choices?

I am currently kegging my beer and have been told not to use bleach to
sanitize the corney kegs. is this true?

please help me decide. 
                         Victor Franklin
                        vfrankl at uswnvg.com


       ** I don't need a comment, I'm already cute **


    

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Date: 08 Aug 94 14:19:44 EDT
From: "Glenace L. Melton" <71242.2275 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Grape Nuts(tm) Pale Ale

Grape Nuts contain malted barley, wheat, and salt in unknown proportions.
Someone made a suggestion that they could be used in brewing so I tried
it, maily as a joke. However, the results were so good, close to an
excellent European pale lager, that I have decided to brew it regularly.
Eventually I intend to substitute regular malt and wheat, which are
cheaper. 

INGREDIENTS:
	4 gal. Las Vegas city water (high in calcium, sodium, magnesium,
		chloride, and sulphate, about 750 ppm.) for mashing
	3 gal. water from reverse osmosis filter system (about 60 ppm. 	
		NaCl
	2.0 lbs. Grape Nuts(tm) (1)
	0.75 lbs. Vienna malt
	5.05 lbs. 6-row Midwest malt
Total   7.8 lbs. grist
	4 tsp. +/- commercial lemon juice (for acidifying)
	3 cups Sierra Nevada(tm) Pale Ale yeast starter (2)
	10.5 HBU compressed powdered Willamette hops (i.e. 2.1 oz. of 5%
		AAU hops)
	2.5 oz. leaf (plug) Czech Saaz hops
	1 Tbs. (heaping) isinglas
	1.5 cups Laaglander Extra Pale DME

METHOD:
Grind grains and Grape Nuts together and dump into mash tun with 4 gals.
mash water.
I used step-mash procedures: protein rest 45 min. at 122-124 dF; Opt.
added small amount of lemon juice (3); saccharification rest 47 min.
147-152 dF; dextrine rest 15 min. at 157-159 dF (4).

Don't try to sparge this; strain out the grains and trub with a fine mesh
stainless steel sieve and place in the hot (170 dF) sparge water for 20
minutes, then strain again. Combine the mash and sparge solutions and
proceed to boil.

After 20 min. boiling add 5.5 HBU Willamette hops. After 60 min. add 5.0
HBU Willamette hops (5). Boil for 1 hr. 20 min. total. Restore with water
(reverse osmosis) to 6 gals.

Cool to about 70 dF, aerate by splashing into a fermenting vat, pitch 3
cups yeast starter, and cover.  My O.G. was 1.043 on 5.5 gals. Fermented
in a covered vat at 70-73 dF.

Rack to secondary carboy in 4 days and add five half-oz. Saaz plugs (2.5
dry weight) plus 0.75 cups Laaglander Extra Pale DME in 1 pint  boiled
water (to stimulate the yeast to produce CO2). 

The beer ceased working in 9 days; cleared with 1 heaping Tbs. isinglas,
hydrated and dissolved in 1 pint boiled water. After two more days,
bottled with 1.1 cup 50-50 dextrose and Laaglander Extra Pale DME
dissolved in about 1 pint boiled water for priming, plus 1 cup SNPA yeast
starter. Yield was 21 quarts.

This cleared in three days after bottling and was already comparable with
most better commercial beers. A slight chill haze can be remedied by
bottle-lagering at 35 dF for two weeks.  

______________________________
NOTES:
(1) Use the genuine article, not a "house brand" which may contain oils
and other ingredients you do not want in your beer! Disclaimer: I have no
connection with whoever makes Grape Nuts(tm) and don't even eat the stuff
very often.
(2) I used Sierra Nevada(tm) Pale Ale yeast cultivated from a bottle to
make a starter; Wyeast 1056, that I have used and is an excellent yeast,
is not the same at all, although some people continue to propagate the
erroneous statement that it is.
(3) If the pH of the mash is a little high at this stage, add a tsp. or
two of lemon juice to lower it.
(4) The starch test was already negative at the end of the
saccharification rest so I doubt if there was much starch left to convert
into dextrine. Therefore, I would reduce the protein and saccharification
rests by 30% and double the dextrine rest to add body. Head retention was
good.
(5) I would reduce the bittering hops by about 20%, i.e. from 10.5 to
about 8.0. This is purely my personal preference. Even so there was no
lingering bitter taste, but a clean, dry finish.


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Date: Monday,  8 August 94 13:50:21 CST
From: Alan P Van Dyke <llapv at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu>
Subject: not priming/hop poles w/ pulleys

Howdy, y'all,
In HBD 1494, Chris Stickland wants to know about bottling beer early instead
of priming.  This is a possibility, & is actually done by some commercial
brewers.  There is a trick to it, however.  You have to know exactly what your
final gravity will be, then figure backwards to what gravity you need to bottle
at to get the right carbonation.  It's easy if you're a commercial brewer,
brewing the same thing over & over, & you can trust the numbers.  However,
almost no (I've learned to never say "all" or "none", there's always the
exception) homebrewers can enjoy the luxury of having the same exact beer do
the same exact thing.  So, we prime.  If you have a favorite recipe, however,
that you've done over & over, & you get the same gravity readings consistently,
try it.  Just remember, though, that a small mistake could lead to those
nasty little glass grenades.

Thanks to The Coyote for posting his pulleyed hop pole instructions.  I just
bought a house with the perfect spot for hop vines, & I was trying to remember
just this weekend who posted the idea of the pulleys & whether it worked.  But
first I have to do some re-wiring for the ol' brewing fridge...

BTW, rumor has it that the psuedo-lambic that won the AHA nationals was an
extract.  Any truth to that?

Happy brewin',

Alan of Austin

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Date:         Mon, 08 Aug 94 14:38:09 CDT
From: Ed Blonski <S851001 at UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU>
Subject:      Christmas Brew Formula's




Greetings. I'm a newbie, so be gentle.
I'm looking for any and all formulas for a Christmas Brew. (I use the
word 'formula' because I was raised in a Bakery and we never had
'recipes'. Go figure!)
E-mail would be great, no sense taking up bandwith, etc.

Also, I live in St. Louis and I too do not by A-B products. Especially at
Busch Stadium. I can't see paying $3.50 for a can of beer under any
circumstances. But also for the reason that I have somewhat of a loyalty
to Miller as a commercial product. I went to school in Milwaukee and Miller
has a great and informative brewery tour. I do like their line of Special
Reserve products better than their regular products but anything beats A-B
products. Why is A-B the best? IMHO its all advertising.
Luckily in St. Louis we have an alternative. The St. Louis Brewery. Dave
Miller is the Brewmaster and they have some great beers. His Cask Ale is
probably the best I've ever tasted.

Anyway...send those Christmas Brew formulas along. Thanks!

______________________________________________________________________
Better people - better food - and better beer
Why move around the world when Eden was so near?
______________________________________________________________________

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Date:     Mon, 8 Aug 94 16:15:16 EDT
From: "Glen A. Wagnecz, X6616" <wagnecz at PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:  Boilover Made Easy...

Splash!!!  Sizzle!!!  Phewww!!!  Those telltale signs that the batch has
decided to leave the nest early...These are some things that come to mind:

(Not necessarily in order of occurrence or level of frustration...)

1. Telephone rings and I get into some half hour conversation with someone
I haven't talked to in a while and forgot about the boil...

2. Was doing something related to the next step (sterilizing fermenters
weighing hops, etc.) and forgot about the boil...

3. I'm cleaning up where the cat puked after he ate some of the hops 
that I was weighing out for the finish in #2 above and forgot about 
the boil...

4. Decotions.  Decotions get me all the time.  I've outlawed all 
decotions in my house with the exception of weizzen batches.  However,
when I do do one, its upstairs, away from the main operations in the
basement...

5. The cup runneth over.  I've got a SS Half barrel for a fermentor,
and if I push it, it will hold 15.5 gallons, with an inch to spare.
But don't look at it wrong, rock it, or otherwise say the word "worry"!

6. Wheat again.  Attack of the grey crud from Hell!!!

7. Turned up the heat when I meant to turn it down.  My jet engine
keg melter has a valve that closes by turning counterclockwise
rather clockwise (like the rest of the civilized world...).  All it takes
is a quick 150K BTU blast to push that 15.5 gallons from #5 the last inch.

8. Disbelief.  A watched keg never boils(over).  (Bullsh#t).

9. Was doing something unrelated to brewing, like breaking 1/4-20 taps
off in the pig roaster mounts (arggg!!) I was working on.

10. DIDN'T RELAX, DIDN'T HAVE A HOMEBREW, WORRIED...


			CU Ltr-

				Glen

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Date: Mon, 8 Aug 94 16:15:38 EDT
From: David_Arnone at Warren.MentorG.com
Subject: Re: Barrels

> Date: Fri, 5 Aug 94 08:02:14 EST
> From: John DeCarlo               <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
> Subject: Re: Barrels
> 
> I must admit to knowing virtually nothing about the subject, but I judged at 
> the BUZZ OFF a month or so ago in the Specialty Beer (oh no!) category.  One 
> entry was a "whisky beer" brewed in an old whisky barrel.  I must admit that I
> don't know the ingredients used, but the result tasted absolutely nothing like
> beer and a *lot* like whisky.
> 
> In other words, I would be wary of used whisky barrels for any other use.
>

Ah yes, I would be wary of using a used whiskey barrel for making beer but
a used whiskey barrel provides an excellent mechanism for maiking a port wine,
especially the first year.  Port wine generally uses muscat grape which is white
and some red grape like Zinfandel mto provide a rose color.  The whiskey from
the barrel forifies the wine perfectly.

Dave Arnone
dja at warren.mentorg.com

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Date: Mon,  8 Aug 1994 17:00:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Mark J. Wilk" <mw5w+ at andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: woodchuck and pale ale


Has anyone tried mixing a woodchuck cider and a pale ale?  I believe
that I read about this in barley corn some time ago, but I can't be
sure.  At any rate, I mixed a Saranac Pale Ale and  Woodchuck, and it
was phenomenal!  The sweetness of the cider offset the bitter of the
pale ale nicely.  Let me know if anyone has any similar findings.

Mark

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Date: Mon,  8 Aug 1994 03:33:00 GMT
From: al.vaughn at castles.com (Al Vaughn)
Subject: Waste Water Management


Tom Wurtz remarked about wasting water while using his wort chiller.  I
live in California where we have had several dry years and I found that
if I connect my garden hose to the outflowing end of the chiller, I can
connect the other end to a lawn sprinkler and water the lawn a little
while I chill my wort.  In the summer my water is about 65 to 70F from
the kitchen tap.  By running the garden hose into the kitchen (my wife
typically needs to be gone to do this without too much flack) I can
water my lawn for about 15 to 20 minutes.  At least it's not going down
the drain and I can have some homebrew while I cut my lawn!

Allyn Vaughn

 * OLX 2.1 TD * (A)bort (R)etry (H)ave a Homebrew!

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Date: Mon, 08 Aug 1994 16:59:54 CST
From: "John L. Isenhour" <isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov>
Subject: pressure cookers

jdecarlo at mitre.org John write:

(I decide to post too, for general info.)

>  Does anyone have any advice on what type of pressure cooker to buy for yeast
>propagation type activity?  I occasionally see them on sale for $19.95 or less
>and wonder if those are too small or too cheaply made to be useful for
>sterilization.

You can use any pressure cooker to sterilize things. I really dont like the
cheap gasket ones though.  I really like the All American brand.  They are
in a totally different league.  They have no gaskets, but a series of giant
wing nut like things, you batten down the hatch and it does not leak any.
It has a guage, and a very nice blow off valve, it will gently hiss away any
extra pressure (more if you have the heat way overcranked) so it wont cause 
your agar or starter liquid to boil out.  I have 2 of them, I got the small
standard one over 10 years ago and it shows no signs of use except when I have
loaned it to friends.  I have a big one now that you can put a gallon (cider)
jug of starter liquid in (Not quite with the glass airlock on, I put the
airlock and stopper wrapped in foil next to the glass and keep foil over the
jug lid).

These are expensive when new, but they are available at used restaurant supply
places and I would suggest checking there.  At least take a look at one to get
an idea of what the different grades are like before you get a cheapo one.

Get Steamed,

 -john

- --
John Isenhour                       
renaissance scientist and AHA/HWBTA National Beer Judge 
home: john at hopduvel.chi.il.us
work: isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov 

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Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 15:18:22 -0800 (PDT)
From: skroger at cibola.aero.calpoly.edu (Seth Kroger)
Subject: Re: unusual fermentation (& ``funny tasting'' extract)

I'm a newbie homebrewer currently on my third batch.  I've used Edme dry
yeast on both the first and third batches, and noticed the same
behavoir (fermentation goes strong for ~1day then just about stops).  I
don't have a hydrometer, so I don't know what the gravities are/were.
For the first batch, I bottled it after two weeks.  It turned out mildly
carbonated, but the yeast aparently ``woke up'' after two months.  On
the final bottles, the dimple in the cap popped out, and the beer was
way over carbonated.  It didn't gush on opening, but it was like pouring
foam.

Now, I have a question about my third batch, currently in the fermenter.
When I tasted the liquid extract I used, it didn't seem to taste right.
It didn't have the `normal'  heavy malt sweetness of the previous
extracts I've used.  It had sort of a tang, almost a slight orange
flavor to it.  Is this a bad sign?  (I got a 7lb bucket of some cheap
light bulk extract to try it out.  Is this a case of getting what you
pay for?)

- -- 
|======================================================================|
| Seth Kroger                       "If God made us in His image we    |
| skroger at oboe.aix.calpoly.edu          have certainly returned the    |
| Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo             compliment."  -Voltaire        |


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Date: 08 Aug 94 18:39:11 EDT
From: Don Rudolph <76076.612 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Counter Pressure Fillers


For those of us who don't have a nice counter-pressure filler (CPF)
setup like Dion's, maybe he and others could answer a few questions.
I recently bought a CPF and ran into a couple of problems.

	1.  What pressure setting should I use for filling?  Dion (#1493)
	mentioned 30 psi, I can't imagine filling at that pressure
	with my setup.  What effect does raising/lowering the pressure
	have?

	2.  I ran into a severe foaming problem.  How can I eliminate
	or reduce foaming?

	3.  If I want say 2.0 volumes of CO2 in my bottled product,
	how many volumes of CO2 should be in the bright beer to 
    	compensate for CO2 losses?  What other factors are involved?

	4.  What would be the top range of CO2 volumes that are feasible
	to achieve with a CPF?

	5.  What is the shelf life of an unfiltered CPF bottle of
	brew vs. a bottle-conditioned one?  

If Dion or anyone else responds, I would be happy to repost the summarized
results.  Thanks.

Don Rudolph
Seattle, WA
76076.612 at CompuServe.COM
 



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Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 08:20:54 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au>
Subject: Dry hops/pressure cookers/hydro correction/Anchor Porter?

Dear Friends, for once I am not just asking questions!  Several comments
on some articles in HBD 1495, and then one question.  Jack Dickerson asks
about better ways to sink his dry-hops.  In my view, it doesn't make a
particle of difference whether the hops are floating on the surface or
sitting on the bottom, especially when they are in a hop bag.  The
volatile aromatics you desire from dry-hopping dissolve into the beer via
diffusion, and this process is totally independent of whether the hop/beer
interface is above or below the hops.  That is, the "random walk" nature
of the diffusion process is irrespective of gravitational fields.  As long
as the hops stay in the beer for long enough, say a week or more, there is
ample opportunity for the dry hops to do their thing.  So Jack, just toss
'em in any old way you want. 

John DeCarlo asks about what type of pressure cooker to buy for yeast
culturing use.  Never in my wildest dreams thought I'd be offering advice
to John <grin> but I'd say that if you are going to be plating out strains
that are probably not pure, so that you need to worry about extraneous
critters, then p/c's are probably a good idea.  If you are working only
with yeast from *pure* sources, like Wyeast packs or slants, IMHO a p/c is
not necessary, and 20 mins of steaming in your covered brewkettle is
plenty of sterilization.  In either case, in my experience (admittedly not
that large, my yeast herd is just 5 strains so far) buggered-up yeast
colonies are quite easy to pick out with the naked eye, so I (so far) have
not bothered with a pressure cooker. 

Tim Ihde asks about how most folks take samples during the sparge/brew
process, and about corrections for temperatures greater than 120F.  What I
do is take a sample once everything is in the brewpot, on the way to
boiling temperature (whether it is an extract- or mash-based brew) and
then measure the gravity (for partial-mash brews, I also measure before
adding the extract syrup).  I cool only if I need to get down to the T
range where my hydrometer corrections apply.  Tim says he had to
extrapolate up to higher T from the data he had.  Here is the correction
table from Dave Line's Big Book of Brewing, both for general use and to
solicit people's opinions on whether this has changed much in the years
since BBB's publication.  Does this still hold up, and if not, why not?

The Line method is to use "hydrometer units", i.e. a gravity of 1.045 is
45 units.  Then the factors given below are used to multiply the hydro
units.  Example: a wort at 120F measures 1.038.  This is 38 hydro units;
the factor is 1.52; 1.52*38 = 57.8 (call it 58) so the actual gravity is
1.058.  BTW this is all assuming a hydrometer calibrated to read water
with a gravity of 1.000 at 60F, so there is no correction at 60F.

T, F	Corr'n factor		T, F	Corr'n factor
50	0.98			120	1.52
70	1.02			130	1.70
80	1.05			140	1.92
90	1.11			150	2.15
100	1.22			160	2.42
110	1.36			170	2.75

It's clear from this that the correction is strongly non-linear, so
extrapolating above 120F if your data don't go any higher needs to be done
with care.  A simple test (so simple I have never done it!) would be to
take a sample at the hot end of the range, do the correction, then cool it
to the mid- and low-end of the range and see if those corrections result
in the same gravity.

OK, finally my question: anyone know if Anchor uses the same yeast for
their Porter as they do for the illustrious Steam beer?  I'm going to make
a Porter using Wyeast 2112 (it is perfect for the 15-18C temps in my
apartment these days) and would appreciate any comments on what I might
expect from this.

Cheers, Dave in Sydney
- -- 
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109
Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper at mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428
             ....I'm not from here, I just live here....

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Date: Mon, 8 Aug 94 18:17:37 MDT
From: "Mark B. Alston" <c-amb at math.utah.edu>
Subject: Re: Brewing in California

Just want to point out that having Brewpubs and supply shops does not
ensure that home brewing is legal.  Utah is a case in point.  We have
5 brewpubs and micros, with three more on the way, and many supply
shops; however, home brewing is as illegal as ever.  In fact, I had
quite a scare when two cops parked across the street while I was
heating my strike water outside the garage.  They didn't seem to pay
me any attention.  I guess that they were looking for something else,
but boy way I nervous.  I had 10+ gallons of brew in my fridge with
the taps in nearly plain view.

Anyhow, shops and brewpubs do not equal legal homebrewing.

Chow,
Mark Alston
(Rebel brewer in zion)


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Date: Mon, 08 Aug 1994 19:37:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: Dave Smucker <TWF99 at ISUVAX.IASTATE.EDU>
Subject: Gas Cylinders

In HBD 1495 Kelly Jones <k-jones at ee.utah.edu> asks about gas
cylinders.

They are regulated by the DOT (Federal Dept. of Transportation)
and are covered by ANSI standards.  The American National Standards 
Institure has set forth the standard that cylinder contents will
be marked by means of the chemical or trade name of the gas marked 
on the cylinder not by a color code.

I don't think many welding supply houses will but CO2 into non
CO2 cylinders because of the DOT regulations and the liability
they may incure in a non standard cylinder.  You may find a 
fire protection or service company that will, but I think even
that is unlikely.

By the way that is a good place to purchase smaller size cylinders
in the 5 to 10 pound size.  I use a 50 pound cylinder purchased 
from my welding supply house for about $ 90.00.  It lasts for ever,
about a year, and I use it for lots of things.  One big drawback
is that it weighs in at about 200 pounds, is more than 5 feet tall
and damn hard to take to a party.

Dave Smucker

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Date:        Mon, 08 Aug 94 23:36:51 EDT
From: "LYVER,ANDRE,MR" <XNLC at MUSICB.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: Re-using yeast

Dear fellow homebrewers,
I have a "newbie" question:
I've heard of re-using the yeast that settles to the bottom of the
fermentor, however what should I store it in and at what temperature?
I've tried it once and it turned out to be quite an *explosive*
situation!! Is it really worth it?

Andre Lyver                      "I homebrew, therefore I am"
xnlc at musicb.mcgill.ca


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Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 00:16 EST
From: Jack Skeels <0004310587 at mcimail.com>
Subject: Mixxocydin/QUATERNIUM-12 = Good Stuff???

Has anybody heard of a hand cleaner called Mixxocydin (TM)?  It is intended for
the medical and scientific communities, and has the active ingredient called
QUATERNIUM-12. 

My thoughts/questions were: 1)  Would this be effective against Lactobacillus?
2) Could Quaernium-12 (which I was told is made from grapefruit seed) be a
decent sanitizer? 

Jack Skeels JSKEELS at MCIMAIL.COM 

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Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 7:28:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV
Subject: Polyclar

Greetings to all in homebrew-land!  I have a question regarding the
use of polyclar as a clarifying agent.  A few weeks ago I brewed
an all-grain golden ale, and dry-hopped it for about a week with
one ounce of Cascade whole leaf hops.  It still looked a little
cloudy, so I decided to use a bit of polyclar to clear it up a bit.
In the past, all I did was to sprinkle a couple of tablespoons
of polyclar powder on top of the fermented beer in the secondary.
This worked well. But alas, I recently purchased Dave Miller's book,
which said to hydrate the polyclar in about a cup of beer from
the secondary.  So, I did this, and had a helluva time getting the 
polyclar into solution.  Anyway, I finally got it into solution
and poured it into the secondary.  Three days later, it still was not
clear.  I decided to bottle it anyway.
	Almost two weeks later, the beer is *very* cloudy, almost
white in the bottle.  It is carbonated perfectly, and even tastes
great.  I pride myself in that I have never had an infection, 
and I am nearly certain that this beer is not infected.  What
did I do wrong?  A bad batch of polyclar?  Will this eventually 
settle out?  Should I relax, don't worry, and serve cloudy
homebrew to my friends?  Any thoughts, private or otherwise, would
be appreciated.
TIA
Rick Gontarek
Owner/Brewer, The Major Groove Picobrewery
Baltimore, MD
gontarek at ncifcrf.gov

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Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 08:45:19 -0400
From: stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov (Chris Strickland)
Subject: Water Bath Cooling

Someone mentioned keeping a carboy in a water bath  at  80 degrees and wanted
it to be cooler.  I don't have a water bath, (which would be easier), but
I just wrap a wet towel around my carboy.  I wet it twice a day, and it keeps
the carboy  at 65-68 F, though my house is cooled  at 78-80 F.  The evaporation
cooling effect works well.  I was talking to my dad about this and he said when
he was in the military, they'd take canvas bags full of water and hang them
up when in the desert.  Though it was near 100 outside, the water in the bags
was cool and refreshing.  Same effect of the evaporation cooling.

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Chris Strickland               |   Allin1: stricklandc                      |
| Systems Analyst/Statistician   |   Email : stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Date: Tue, 09 Aug 1994 09:48:49 +0000 (U)
From: George Tempel <tempel at MONMOUTH-ETDL1.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: re--beginner's guide

                      re--beginner's guide

I'd like to publicly thank Richard Webb for his 3 part post on all 
grain brewing...it is useful and very readable. I have recommended 
it to friends who don't brew but like my homebrew and ask 
howzitdone?

I've one question, however--rich writes:

>The important points to remember are 1) gentile sparging, 2) temperature 
>control, and 3) try to get the quantities right!

I dunno about the rest of you, but i've _never_ been able to get a good
extraction rate from a gentile in the tun! They never fit in very well,
and it's always such a problem explaining it to the neighbors...


l8r...
ty (george tempel, home = netromancr at aol.com)
"kiss cats: the dachshund and the deer are one"--wallace stevens



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Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 10:52:59 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Using Green Beer to Prime

You need to save enough beer to raise the SG of your beer by about
 .004.  The (simplified, but fine for this task) equation for the
gravity of mixed worts is:

extract(mixed) = [vol(beer)*extract(beer) + vol(wort)*extract(wort)] 
                 ---------------------------------------------------
                                 [vol(beer) + vol(wort)]

Where extract = 1000*(SG - 1.000), for simplicity.  Rearranging this
to isolate vol(wort) gives

	V(w) = [(E(m) - E(b)) * V(b)] / (E(w) - E(m))

Substuting E(m) = E(b) + 4, gives
	V(w) = 4*V(b) / (E(w) - E(b) - 4)

Thus, if we had a 1.050 wort, 5 gallons of beer with a final gravity
of 1.008, we would need to save

	V(w) = 4 * 5 / (50 - 8 - 4) = 20 / 38 = .53 gallons
		= 2.1 quarts

of wort.  Of course, you've got to estimate your FG in order to save
wort before fermentation.  

Another, perhaps more useful calculation is this: If you've got a
certain volume of wort, and you want to save some, how much should you
save.  In that case V(beer) = V(initial-wort) - V(saved-wort), and the
equation becomes:
	E(m) = [(V(i)-V(w))*E(b) + V(w)*E(w)] / V(i)
or
	V(w) = [(E(m)-E(b))*V(i)] / (E(w)-E(b))
Substituting E(m)-E(b) = 4, we get
	V(w) = 4 * V(i) / (E(w) - E(b))
The example case then gives
	V(w) = 4 * 5 / (50 - 8) = .48 gallons = 1.9 quarts

Hope this helps.

=S



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Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 11:42:08 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Bacteria in tap water

I first became aware of this problem a few years ago.  Our water
smelled very strongly of chlorine, so I called the water treatment
plant.  I had a chat with one of the chemists.  He explained that they
used chloramine to sanitize the water, and that it is odorless.
However, in the 3-4 days it takes the water to get from the plant to
my house (I'm at the edge of a "pressure district"), nitrifying (?)
bacteria *in the pipes* convert the chloramine to free chlorine (and
something else). 

The water analysis I ordered at the same time listed something like 99
"cfu" (colony-forming units) of bacteria (per some unit I can't now
recall, probably milliliter).  Clearly this water is not sterile.
While I'll take their word that it's safe to drink, I'm not going to
take a chance on what might grow in my beer.  I don't even rinse with
tap water, let alone use it unboiled in my beer.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI

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Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 11:50:49 -0400
From: stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov (Chris Strickland)
Subject: Using Green Beer to Prime

Thanks for the formulas.  I don't remember, I may have already asked.  But have
you tried priming this way, and if so is it any better?

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Chris Strickland               |   Allin1: stricklandc                      |
| Systems Analyst/Statistician   |   Email : stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 12:09:08
From: djmiller at tasc.com (Dean J Miller)
Subject: Beer Labels 

I have made a barleywine for a friend's wedding and have bottled it in the 
Fischer Alsace 22 oz. bottles.  But, I would like to get some neat beer labels 
made.  Does anyone know of a good source for custom-made labels for beer 
bottles??  Private E-Mail or Posting is OK.  If there are a lot of responses, 
I will post a summary.

TIA


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Date: Tue, 09 Aug 94 12:27:07 EDT
From: lavist at cc.tacom.army.mil
Subject: WORRY No More


          Steven Cook says he is worried that the straining procedure 
          can infect his batch. I suggest, No More Straining!
           Steve, tie your hops and a half dozen marbles loosely in a 
          piece of sanitized cheesecloth during the boil. (Actually, 
          the boil will sanitize it but I boil the cheesecloth 
          separately first, just in case.)The marbles will effectively 
          keep the hops bag from floating to the top of the wort but 
          won't allow it to sink all the way to the bottom. When you 
          are finished boiling the hops to the proper bitterness level 
          to suit your tastes, just remove the whole bag from the 
          batch. No more scum! Try it, it really works!
          
           Terry Lavis   lavist at cc.tacom.army.mil

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1497, 08/10/94