FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Dry Hops (npyle)
  Forfeiture laws/W VA etc. ("Glenace L. Melton")
  Brewpubs near Mystic Connecticut (Jonathan Albrecht ph3187)
  Ordering Beer (Fred Waltman)
  Re: Repitching yeast (HBD #1496) (Jim Ancona)
  Cory Keg fermenters ("Stephen Lovett")
  Ca. law & Grain Batch (ELQ1)
  Legal Homebrewing in WV (mike.keller)
  That fresh beer flavor/Closed systems/CHEAP Cornelius kegs (Teddy Winstead)
  Re: Waste Water Management (Lowell Hart)
  Reply to illegality of homebrewing in West Virginia (Henson W.C.(Bill))
  Japanese beetle repellent - homebrewed (Ed Ditto)
  Re:Beer Labels (EKTSR)
  Mashing Rice - How? ("MICHAEL L. TEED")
  More on Rotten Veggie Smell (Chris Strickland)
  Ale and Cider (PSTOKELY)
  Late additions+dry hops?? (BUKOFSKY)
  Hop Growing/Poles etc. (rprice)
  SG vs temperature (Chip Hitchcock)
  Homebrew Spinoffs - Marinades (Conan-the-Librarian)
  Hop vine Monuments (Mark Evans)
  Phils Philler(TM) (todd boyce)
  Polyclar (Robert H. Reed)
  Xmas Ale recipe request (Jon Higby)
  Budapest (Ray Gaffield)
  When to put the fruit in . . . (Timothy Wong)
  Rakes/Oak Casks (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Taylor T'stat recal ("MICHAEL L. TEED")
  AHA Guidelines & Alcohol computation (Wolfe)
  Bru Heat (BeerGeek1)
  Differences among beer mugs (DARREN TYSON)



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Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 09:23:18 -0700
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com>

Subject: The beginners guide to advanced and all-grain brewing

Yet another installment of

The beginners guide to advanced and all-grain brewing
By Richard B. Webb, the Brews Brother's 1993 Homebrewer of the year

part 4

The Mash (cont)

Because the sugar in the well-modified malt is readily available to 
us, we can extract 
the maximum amount of sugar by a process called single 
step infusion mashing. Hot 
water at approximately 165 degrees is placed into the picnic cooler 
mash tun, and 
allowed to sit. This is necessary to heat the interior of the 
tun, allowing a constant and 
uniform temperature to be achieved. After the temperature settles, 
the grain is poured 
on top of the water and thoroughly mixed in. The starch tends to settle 
to the bottom of 
the tun where it is converted to sugar and drained away. The grain 
husks, which tend to 
float away, will then settle to the bottom of the tun, forming a filter 
bed to work in 
conjunction with the filtering properties of the slotted PVC pipe. 
A constant temperature 
of about 150-155 degrees is maintained for about 90 minutes, or until 
the starch has 
been completely converted to sugar. This conversion of starch to sugar 
is called 
saccharification. Some of the hot, sugary liquid is 
drained away, while more hot water is 
added to the tun until the temperature of the grains is about 170 
degrees. This 
temperature is maintained for five to ten minutes, which allows the 
sugar created during 
saccharification to be readily dissolved. The liquid sugar soup is 
then partially drained 
away, while new water is allowed to flow through the grains. This 
sparge water should be 
no warmer than 170 degrees, as water hotter than that will leech out 
bitter oils and resins 
from the grains, potentially ruining an otherwise perfect batch of 
beer.

One problem with single step infusion mashing is that the initial 
temperature of the 
grains is very hard to control. If the water is too hot when the grains 
are added (the strike 
temperature), then the enzymes in the grains can be killed, and an 
insufficient sugar yield 
will result. If the temperature is too low, then it will have to be 
raised, especially for beer 
styles that call for rich, thick, and full bodied beers. The temperature 
can be raised in a 
couple of ways. First, hot water can simply be added to the mash. 
This works up to a 
point, but it has a certain drawback. The enzymes are more likely 
to survive the high 
temperatures of the mash in a relatively thick grain bed. Adding hot 
water only serves to 
dilute the grain bed, resulting in a loss of enzymes. The other method 
of introducing heat 
to the mash is to remove some of the liquid from the mash. This liquor 
is heated up, and 
then returned to the mash. This process is called decoction mashing, 
and is a technique 
used in program temperature mashing.

This process, most commonly used with lager, or less-modified malt, 
is similar to 
single step infusion mashing, yet different. Because the malt is less 
well modified, there 
are proteins that remain in the starch which must be dealt with. Instead 
of placing the 
grains into a liquid bath at a single, high temperature, the grains 
are introduced at a 
lower temperature. Then the temperature in the tun or kettle is slowly 
increased. As in 
the single step infusion mash, the hot water is placed in the tun, 
the temperature inside 
the tun is allowed to stabilize, and the grain is poured into the 
water and thoroughly 
mixed. The main difference here is that the temperature to be achieved 
initially is closer 
to 122 degrees Fahrenheit, as opposed to over 150 degrees as described 
in the previous 
method. After a short rest at this temperature, heat is added to the 
tun, and the mashing 
temperature is allowed to rise. Again the ultimate goal here is a 
temperature of about 
150-155 degrees.

There are several methods for adding heat energy to the mash tun. 
One way that I've 
tried is by inserting a water heater heating element into the grain 
mash. This can work, 
but constant stirring is required in order to evenly distribute the 
heat throughout the tun. 
Too high a heat in any one place will leech out the oils and resins 
that I mentioned 
earlier. 

Program temperature mashing also lends itself to heating in a kettle 
on the stove. 
Constant stirring keeps the temperature at the bottom of the kettle 
from rising too high, 
or from being heated more than the grain near the top of the kettle. 
At the end of the 
process, the grains need to be placed into some sort of lauter tun 
in order to sparge the 
grains of the hot, soluble sugar. But another method of gradual heating 
lends itself to the 
use of picnic cooler mash/lauter tuns. Using such a tun, remove some 
of the sugary liquid 
and heat it up independently from the rest of the mash. This liquor 
can be boiled for a 
few minutes and then returned to the mash tun. As mentioned 
earlier, this technique is 
called decoction mashing, and is well suited to the 
picnic cooler mash tun, but it can be 
tricky. Care must be taken not to extract, heat, and return too much 
liquor at one time, 
lest the temperature inside the mash tun become too great. It takes 
a lot of heat added to 
the tun to increase the temperature significantly, so after a few 
small decoctions there is 
a temptation to drain the whole batch and boil it and return it to 
the tun. Try not to be 
too impatient...

A variation of this decoction technique is known as the recirculatin
g infusion mash 
method. A pump that can handle hot liquids is used to pump the heated 
liquor from the 
boiling kettle back to the mash tun. The hot liquor is continually 
being drained from the 
tun into the kettle where it is heated, and is then pumped back to 
the tun, resulting in a 
gradual heating of the grains. Recirculating systems can get complicated, 
and the pumps 
aren't cheap, and there is one more piece of equipment which must 
be maintained and 
cleaned. When the homebrewer sits thinking great thoughts about the 
best brewing 
system possible, thoughts often turn to recirculating mash systems.

There are lots of different kinds of malt and grains to be put in 
beer. I have included 
an appendix to this document with a partial list of the most common 
types of malt.

Return to table of contents


Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 13:01:21 MDT
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: Dry Hops

Midas Operator 3 writes:

>I want to dry hop this batch, after racking. Should I put the (whole) hops in
>the bottom of the secondary and then fill, or fill first and place the hops
>on top? How long should they be secondary for best results and should they be
>in some sort of hop bag, or is loose OK?

Well Mr. (or Ms.?) 3, it really doesn't matter whether you put the whole hops
in the secondary before or after the beer.  They'll float and eventually get
saturated with the beer.  I recommend a week to 10 days for dry hopping, but
longer times won't hurt, in fact may pull more aromatics out of the hops.
Loose is fine.  A hop bag is fine.  Dry hopping is easy.

Karl MacRae asks if dry hopping is making his beer cloudy.  I don't think hop
pellets will cloud a beer for three weeks, Karl.  They tend to settle to the
bottom of the beer.  I'd look elsewhere to correct this problem.

Cheers,
Norm npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com

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Date: 09 Aug 94 15:37:32 EDT
From: "Glenace L. Melton" <71242.2275 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Forfeiture laws/W VA etc.

In the 8/8 HBD PStokely told of a friend who had his homebrewing equipment
confiscated by a cop in Shepherdstown, WV who stopped him for a traffic
violation. While it would be wise to avoid Shepherdstown (or any other
town in WVA for that matter) this could happen anywhere in any state of
the USA. The federal forfeiture laws allow the police to confiscate
anything they wish if they think it is involved in a violation, and they
do not have to prove the violation in court or even file a complaint.
these laws were established to allow local police to profit from the
aggressive enforcement of the anti-drug laws. If you don't like this
blatantly unconstitutional law enforcement, flame your congressmen.
[END]



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Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 17:16:29 EDT
From: albrecht at bns102.bng.ge.com (Jonathan Albrecht ph3187)
Subject: Brewpubs near Mystic Connecticut


I'm headed to Mystic Connecticut in a few weeks.  Can anyone
recommend any brewpubs in the area?

Jon Albrecht (ALBRECHT at bng.ge.com)

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Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 14:53:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Fred Waltman <waltman at netcom.com>
Subject: Ordering Beer

Darren Tyson's recent summary on beer ordering reminded me of a 
experience I recently had in Syracuse, NY.

I was with clients at a fancy restaurant. They ordered beer with lunch, so 
I was what they had on tap -- nothing, only bottles (usually a bad sign). 
When asked what they had in bottles I got the usual reply "All kinds".  I 
asked the waiter to humor me by listing them and got the usual litany 
"Bud, Bud Light, Bud Dry, Bud Ice ..." I interupted and asked for 
anything not made by Bud, Miller or Coors (sometimes a dangerous 
proposition that close to the True North, Strong and Free -- you're likely 
to get the response "Molson's, Molson Ice, ...") and that stumped him and 
he finally blurted out "Sam Adams" so I said fine, not wanting to prolong 
the agony.

A few days later we went back for happy hour and I thought I'd try again 
with another waiter. When he also said "All kinds" I got mad and ordered 
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. I just about fell over when he came back with the 
familiar green labeled bottle. I went into the bar and lined up on a 
lower counter (where you couldn't hardly see them) were just about all of 
the Samuel Smiths, Orval, Duvel, Jenlain French Country Ale and about two 
dozen other good imports and micro's. Not quite "All kinds" but close 
enough. So sometimes when they say "All Kinds" they mean it!


Fred Waltman
Culver City Home Brewing Supply Co.
waltman at netcom.com




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Date: 9 Aug 94  8:50:49 ES
From: hpfcla.fc.hp.com!dbsnotes.dbsoftware.com!Jim_Ancona (Jim Ancona)
Subject: Re: Repitching yeast (HBD #1496)

In HBD #1496, drodger at access.digex.net (David Rodger) writes:
>I've read the yeast faq, but am slightly confused on one issue.  I'm 
>moving to liquid yeast cultures, and the cost is encouraging me to try to 
>re-pitch from one batch to a second.  Currently, that's all I'd like to 
>be able to do; that is, I'm assuming that I'll make one batch, and then 
>rack from primary to secondary and *immediately* add the new batch.  

I've done exactly this a couple of times, with good results. I rack the first 
beer off the yeast, then add the chilled wort on top of the old yeast cake. 
Shake well, and off you go. I'm careful with sanitation and I only repitch 
once. Also since you get some of the first beer into the second, following a 
stout with a light ale might not be a great idea. Other than that, I say, "Go 
for it!"


Return to table of contents


Date: 9 Aug 1994 15:34:48 U
From: "Stephen Lovett" <stephen_lovett at qm.claris.com>
Subject: Cory Keg fermenters 

 Subject: Cory Keg fermenters 
>From time to time I've seen comments about using corneilius (sp?) kegs as
fermenters, but no detailed instruction/advice on the topic.

Refrigerator space is becoming a scarce commodity in my brewing refrigerators
and I would really like to use my corny kegs for fermenting as they are
smaller in circumference and I can get more brews going concurrently.

I'd like to be able to keep these kegs available for draft service, so I
guess my real question is what can I use for a fermentation lock that won't
alter the keg so that I can use it to serve from at a later date?

I'd be happy to post a summary of the information I receive.

Cheers,

Steve



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Date: Tue, 9 Aug 94 14:39:28 PDT
From: ELQ1%Maint%HBPP at bangate.pge.com
Subject: Ca. law & Grain Batch

   Good Morning Brewers,
   Regarding Ca. law, I contacted the Ca. Alcohol Bev. Control who stated     
   that it is legal for an individual to brew 200 gals per person [adult]     
   with a max of 300 gal. per household per year. It is legal to take to
   friends,picinics,and parties, just no sales. transporting to other states
   they suggest you contact that states A.B.C. office.
    One observation/statment/question on an allgrain, I did a batch with
   pale 2-row Australian that never did fully convert after an almost 2
   hour mash, OG- 1.038 FG- 1.026  single step infusion, fermented 4 weeks
   at 50 deg.  The finished product tastes like ....grain, well carbonated,
   good head etc, it just tastes like the sweet wort, only not sweet as the
   hops come through.  Anybody have this happen?  I know where I can correct
   the low OG and FG, just an observation, other than that, I think I will
   go have a Grain beverage!
   Steve Jackson at army.mil, I tried to email you a note on your brazen 
   holliganism, but it bounced, just a bit of advice, don't go shouting 
   loudly in the streets concerning your illegal hobby, being convicted of
   a felony deprives a person of a lot of rights.
      Nial, your mail also bounced, Global Indust. Eq. has 55 gal hdpe
   containers for food grade use, 1-800-645-1232, also Consolidated Plastics
   has them, I don't have their 800 #, but its in the 800 directory.
   No afillyashun da bla-t-da, bla-t-da

    Ed Quier      ELQ1 at PGE.COM   707-444-0718

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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 04:17:00 UTC
From: mike.keller at genie.geis.com
Subject: Legal Homebrewing in WV

In HBD 1496 Paul Stokely relates a story abour a friend getting
pulled over in Shepherdstown WV, and having his brew gear
confiscated. He also mentions a lawyer saying he didn't know if
brewing is legal in WV or not.
 
This is very distressing. It is QUITE legal to homebrew in WV, there
is a new homebrew supply shop in Charleston WV that has received a
bunch of press recently. I've been brewing here in St. Albans for
several years, and we have a regional brewclub here with members over
a 50 mile radius that meets (more or less) monthly.
 
It's sad some cop doesn't know the laws, although it seems with the
loss Paul's friend incurred, he should have been willing to return
later and fight. It's also sad that some jackleg lawyer doesn't know
that a quick visit to City Hall, with a lawyer in tow, would probably
have gotten the gear back quick and easy. (the lawyer claimed it
would be too costly to fight; what fight when you show that it was
obviously illegal confiscation?)
 
Bottom line, though, is that we obviously need more education ALL
OVER this country. Perhaps we, as brewers, need some information on
how to fight these kinds of harrassment, in the same way you can get
info on fighting speeding tickets?
 
 mike keller, zymurgy roundtable, GEnie
 
 

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Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 20:07:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: winstead%brauerei at cs.tulane.edu (Teddy Winstead)
Subject: That fresh beer flavor/Closed systems/CHEAP Cornelius kegs

I'm often impressed by the freshness of the flavors in beer from
brewpubs.  I'm not sure exactly how I'd describe it except to say that
there's good, resiny/floral hop aroma and flavor, and nice, smooth
maltiness.   Are these qualities due to the equipment that they use in
mashing and boiling, or are they due to the closed-system fermenters
that they use?

- -----

(Related to first question)  Is anyone using the closed-system
fermenter techniques outlined in the Zymurgy Gadgets issue?  This
system is based on using one cornelius keg for primary fermentation
and carbonation, and a second cornelius keg for lagering, storage, and
serving.   The argument is that the beer is never exposed to air until
it is served.  I personally beleive in it, but I'd like to hear from
sceptical people as well as those that have tried this to hear what
they do or don't like about it.

- -----

For those of you (like me) who are in search of cheap cornelius kegs,
and also refuse to deal with St. Patrick's of TX, there's a place
advertising them for $15 a piece.  They take Visa/MC, and their number
is (404) 315-1100.  I think that the name of the place is "Amber
Waves", or something like that.  They also say that the offer quantity
discounts, but they wouldn't cut me a deal on 3.  The ad was from
Southern Draft Brew News.  I'm not connected with anyone.... blah blah
blah.


- -- 
Nathaniel Scott "Teddy" Winstead         |  
winstead at cs.tulane.edu (Preferred)       |
winstead%brauerei.uucp at cs.tulane.edu     |
Fanatical Homebrewer & CS Undergrad/Grad |


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Date: Tue, 9 Aug 1994 22:13:29 -0700
From: Lowell Hart <lhart at CATI.CSUFresno.EDU>
Subject: Re: Waste Water Management

Tom Wurtz asks about how to avoid wasting the cooling water for his wort
chiller. As the San Joaquin Valley is entering its 7th year of drought
(the '93 rains having only confused the public, who immediately began
wasting water again) we in Fresno have put at least some thought into
this, if not a lot of work. My own chiller water goes down the drain, as
for some reason the landlord objects to my making permanent modifications
to the building. I do have one brewer buddy who has set up his garage 
system to use the used water to irrigate the backyard. A fixed black
PVC drain runs out the back into a dry sump (hole in ground) and whatever 
runs off after filling the hole flows into the flower beds and waters
the roses. He also has an alternate drain where the chiller outlet goes
back into a second hose and the water is conveyed to the lawn. The first
water to go through the chiller comes out hot, so it is important to
remember to run this onto the dirt, or you will kill the grass. Later
water isn't all that warm, so it can be used just about anywhere.

A couple of our homebrew club members have described recirculating the water
with a swamp cooler pump, with ice to re-cool the water. I have not seen 
these, and will avoid speculating on their construction.

My own record for wasting water is 22,000 gallons (based on flowmeter readings)
in about 2 hours. Of course, I was working for a private water company
at the time, and was running an unused well in order to get an accurate sample.
You know, one of those many wells that we shut down around here every time
the EPA and the State of California decide to raise the drinking water
 standards. Wells that would be perfectly acceptable in Nevada and Colorado,
but somehow are deadly to Californians.

Lowell Hart
San Joaquin WORThogs
Raketenflugplatz, Fresno
lhart at cati.CSUFresno.edu


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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 06:26:46 -0500
From: awchrd2 at peabody.sct.ucarb.com (Henson W.C.(Bill))
Subject: Reply to illegality of homebrewing in West Virginia

Gentle Brewers,
 As a means of introduction,I run a homebrew supply store out of my home in
the Charleston area. Brewing has been legal in W.V. for a couple of years.
I believe the current administration legalized it so it's been within in
the past three years. I have never been questioned or inspected or
anything. I think maybe someone ran across a thirsty cop. We also have our
share of ignorant, and or ,over jealous cops, so take your pick.

Lurking in the background,
awchrd2 at peabody.sct.ucarb.com (Henson W.C.(Bill))



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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 07:35:16 -0400
From: aa3396 at freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu (Ed Ditto)
Subject: Japanese beetle repellent - homebrewed



One of the most interesting strategies for defeating those damned Japanese 
beetles I've seen is as follows:

	place 1 package of chewing tobacco in nylon hose (for
		straining purposes)
	boil in 1 gallon of water
	add 2 cups "pot liquor" which results to 1 cup environmentally
		correct dishwashing soap
	put resulting mix in a 20-gallon nozzle attachment and spray
		through a garden hose to the affected area

This is one of those nozzle attachments that doesn't actually hold 20
gallons of solution, it just holds enough formula to correctly mix with 
20 gallons of water through the hose.

This sounds bizarre, but I've seen it work.  I had a twenty-foot apple 
tree that was covered with them...five or six on every leaf, and they never
came back after I hosed them down with this noxious mix.  I don't think the
flavor of the apples was affected, although if I were spraying something more
delicate (like hops cones), I think I would just spray the vines.

I'm not sure if this would work on ants and other pests, but it definitely 
didn't keep the squirrels out of my apple tree!

- --
Ed Ditto
TVA/Chattanooga
aa3396 at freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu

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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 07:44:59 EDT
From: EKTSR at aol.com
Subject: Re:Beer Labels

Dean J Miller asks:

>I have made a barleywine for a friend's wedding and have >bottled it in the
Fischer Alsace 22 oz. bottles.  But, I would >like to get some neat beer
labels made.  Does anyone know of >a good source for custom-made labels for
beer bottles??  >Private E-Mail or Posting is OK.  If there are a lot of
>responses,  I will post a summary.

Please hold the flames.  My wife and I own Psycho Kitty Design, and we custom
design high quality color labels for homebrewers at affordable prices.
 Please E-mail us for a free brochure.  TIA to everyone on HBD for the
opportunity for a free pitch.  
Stan White, psycokitty at aol.com


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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 07:16:29 CDT
From: "MICHAEL L. TEED" <MS08653 at MSBG.med.ge.com>
Subject: Mashing Rice - How?

 .int homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

 Anyone out there know how to use rice in a mash? My limited library has no
 information on how to do so. I have seen comments that it is as easy as boil
 it and add it to the mash, or as complicated as the saki itenerary a few weeks
 back. What does it really take to make this work in an all grain brew.
 What types of rice would be used.   Email responses are fine. TIA.

 Mike Teed


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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 08:33:31 -0400
From: stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov (Chris Strickland)
Subject: More on Rotten Veggie Smell

I have the rotten veggie smell in a previous batch.  The beer smelled and
tasted fine before bottling.  But now after 10 days in the bottle, it really
stinks and taste likes it smells.  Why would it smell ok before bottling, but
stink after bottling.  Is there a chance that time will fix this problem.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Chris Strickland               |   Allin1: stricklandc                      |
| Systems Analyst/Statistician   |   Email : stricklandc at cocoa12.ksc.nasa.gov |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Date:          Wed, 10 Aug 1994 08:36:24 EDT
From: PSTOKELY at ea.umd.edu
Subject:       Ale and Cider

Mark Wilk asked about mixing beer and cider:

It's been a few years, but a former brewpub in Ithaca New York used 
to serve a "Snakebite Ale" which was a mix of hard cider and 
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and it was great on hot summer days. If I 
recall, the mixture was half and half.

Scott Bickham? Or any other Homebrew Unioners out there, is Snakebite 
still around?

*************

Now I have a question. I no longer have access to a brewing 
refrigerator, any recommendations on lager yeasts that can handle 60 
to 65 degree basement conditions. I've read the commercial 
literature, I'm looking for actual homebrewer recommendations.

Thanks in advance,

Paul S. in College Park, Maryland  "You speak in strange whispers, 
                                    friend, are you not of The Body?"

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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 09:45:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: BUKOFSKY <sjb8052 at minerva.cis.yale.edu>
Subject: Late additions+dry hops??

I'm getting ready to dry hop an English-style pale ale with 1oz of EKG.  
Normally, if I wasn't dry hopping, I would add several hop additions i.e. 
30 min and 45 min into the boil.  Is this a waste of time if I am dry 
hopping?  I'm wondering if the powerful dry hopped aroma/flavor will 
overwhelm any effects from late hop additions.  Any thoughts/experience?

 -Scott

No cute comment.

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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 09:21:09 -0500
From: rprice at cbmse.nrl.navy.mil
Subject:  Hop Growing/Poles etc.

Following along with  the thread on hop poles,  she who must be obeyed
etc.  I thought the following little tidbit might be of interest.

When we toured a hopyard in Kent this summer, we were told by the
owner that he was looking forward to doing away with his poles, etc.
He stated that the U. of Kent had developed a "bush hop" and that the
grower was looking forward to working with the new variety rather than
using stilts, and putting up with the poles and guy wires.

So help may be on the way.


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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 09:48:48 EDT
From: cjh at diaspar.HQ.ileaf.com (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: SG vs temperature

The recent posts on this subject have ignored an important factor: in addition
to the non-linearity of SG at high temperatures, the temperature of a small
sample of hot liquid is likely not to be consistent due to the large
surface area of the sample and large temperature difference between the
sample and the surrounding air. Air can't ]absorb[ much ]heat[ from liquid,
but I'd be surprised if you could get a reliable reading on a sample of hot
wort.  I don't mash, so I can't speak to general practice, but I'd guess
that the only reliable way to check SG on hot wort would be to put the
sample holder in an ice bath and take temperature and SG when the holder is
no longer warm, or even is perceptibly cool, to the touch (i.e., it's below
~37C).  I suppose you could use a larger container than the one that
hydrometers are sold with, put in both a thermometer and a hydrometer, and
try to read temperature and SG simultaneously, but that strikes me as
chancy.

Also, I don't trust Dave Line's formulae (as cited by David Draper); taken
literally, it says that a hydrometer will read the same in pure water over
the range 60 - 170F, which I doubt. OTOH, I'm not sure any linear crxn
(i.e., X SG pts  at  Y degrees, Y > ~100) is valid over a range of
concentrations; can someone who's still a practicing chemist produce some
up-to-date numbers?

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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 07:11:03 -0700
From: pascal at netcom.com (Conan-the-Librarian)
Subject: Homebrew Spinoffs - Marinades


Got some beer you're afraid to drink ? Don't want to dump it ? Here's an
interesting, and constructive, use for beer - use it to make, or maintain,
a marinade.

A 'marinade' is a solution used to flavor meat(s), and is often a secret,
handed down, from cook to cook.

Beers are often used in their preparation, but so are ciders, wines, and
vinegars - all of which are acidic, and, over a period of days, reduce the
fiberous nature of meats, making them much more tender as well adding the
intended flavor(s).

In addition, many other things can be added to the marinade - spices and
fruits, for instance. I like to used sliced ginger.

A good marinade can remain working for months or even years, much like a
sourdough culture can be maintained. ( And, I suspect, there is a fascin-
 -ating microecology also to be found in a marinade. :-) Or it can change,
with the seasons, using whatever is available. It's your marinade, after
all.

So, the next time you pop that top, and find you don't want to drink the
whole thing ... consider starting a marinade, instead ...

Your stews will love you for it.	(-:


- -- richard

                 Law : The science of assigning responsibility.
              Politics : The art of _distributing_ responsibility.

   richard childers        san francisco, california        pascal at netcom.com

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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 09:54:35 -0600
From: evanms at lcac1.loras.edu (Mark Evans)
Subject: Hop vine Monuments

I've enjoyed the stories about hop yards--especially Coyote's.  My wife
also rolled her eyes when she saw the "poles," but the growth is pretty,
dramatic, and adds to the look of our eclectic garden.  
        I use a method I read in a hop article.  I cut down a few weedy,
sucker trees that grow in a nearby wood.  (these are not significant
varieties, locust, whatever)  I make sure they are about 20 feet tall and
fairly straight.  I sink 1-2 6' metal fence posts in the ground and then
secure the trunks to the fence post with sturdy romex wire (leave the white
insulation on) Twist tight. I run three baling strings up to the top and
let the hops creep on up. They've gone way past the top this year, but it
hasn't hurt their growth.  When I get early crops--like this year--I
un-twist the wire, lower the poles carefully with a friend, pick the cones,
and raise again.  The neighbors think I'm nuts.  They think it is some sort
of native ritual, some sort of spirit place.  i think..."Hey, it is!  it's
ten vines of Hallertau and Mt. Hood hops... and they are fresh!"

Brewfully, Mark Evans

                           

      =================================================================
                  |       Mark Evans      Dubuque, Iowa      |
                  |              Practitioner of             |
     *            |   Visual, Literary, and Zymurgistic arts |        *
                  |           Evanms at LCAC1.Loras.edu         |
                  |               319-582-3139               |
      =================================================================



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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 08:50:43 -0600 (MDT)
From: todd boyce <tboyce at bohemia.metronet.org>
Subject: Phils Philler(TM) 

	I'd like anyone whom has used a phils philler bottle filler to
give me there impressions on how they though it worked. Good or bad. There
brass, more expensive etc. Do they perform better than anything else
you've personally used, or are you disapointed?

If Mega brewerys produce 1,000,000 barrels a year or over, then micros
must produce 1,000,000 * .000001 = 1 barrel a year or more. Technically
speaking most homebrewer qualifie as microbrewers. (Unless a barrel of
beer is really huge). So how many gallons is a barrel of beer?

Todd Boyce
e-mail tboyce at bohemia.metronet.org



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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 10:38:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robert H. Reed <rhreed at icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Polyclar

 GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV writes:
 
> I recently purchased Dave Miller's book,
> which said to hydrate the polyclar in about a cup of beer from
> the secondary.  So, I did this, and had a helluva time getting the 
> polyclar into solution.  Anyway, I finally got it into solution
> and poured it into the secondary.  Three days later, it still was not
> clear.  I decided to bottle it anyway.
> 	Almost two weeks later, the beer is *very* cloudy, almost
> white in the bottle.

Are you sure Dave says to rehydrate *polyclar* ?  Polyclar is  
plastic, and functions as an adsorbant: I'd be surprised if it
could absorb any water at all.

In my experience and according to sources I've read polyclar
primarily attacks polyphenols (most commonly tannins extracted
from the grain during mash/sparging).  In my experence, polyclar
does not deal with chill haze proteins or starch haze in your beer.

If you have chill haze, silica  gel works well, and a bentonite
solution properly prepared also works.  I know of no remedy
for starch haze short of tight filtration.

 -Rob Reed

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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 10:34:34 CDT
From: unisql!jonh at cs.utexas.edu (Jon Higby)
Subject: Xmas Ale recipe request

I'm looking for a tried & true recipe for a Xmas ale. Seems like
this would be a good time to make one, giving it about 3 months of
aging for prime tasting form.

I'm planning on making 10 gallons in the 1.070 - 1.085 OG range.
All-grain, partial mash or extract are all fine. I will end up
mashing 70% and the rest will be from extract (limitations of
my current mashing system for this strength and capacity), but
can convert any recipe!

Most interesting will be the spices and quantity used as well as
the hopping rates.

Post or email (to address in my signature).


Thanks in advance,
Jon /
   / Austin
- -- 
Jon Higby  ----   UniSQL, Inc.   ----   email: unisql!jonh at cs.utexas.edu
Denial clause: Prices subject to change w/o notice, actual mileage may vary.
Fat-free, high fiber, tastes great. If you've read this far, you must be
looking for this: Any opinions I expressed are just that - my opinions.

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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 11:22:37 -0500
From: ray_gaffield at il.us.swissbank.com (Ray Gaffield)
Subject: Budapest


I have not been to Budapest in awhile - 7 years.  Hungary is not a  
great brewing nation as far as I know (on the other hand, they are  
great makers of wine). The beers I tasted were very watery and  
uninspiring. When I was there the best beer to be found was,  
naturally, Czech offerings, such as Urquell. You may want to consider
a side trip there ,to sample the Bohemia brews.

My Jackson, pocket guide lists a couple brewpubs in Vienna :
	The Fischer Gasthaus
	Billoth Strass 17

	Schloss
	Nussdorf (phone 372652)

	RAY

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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 09:11:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Timothy Wong <roadgoat at crl.com>
Subject: When to put the fruit in . . .


I am about to experiment with a berry-wheat beer and just wanted to get 
opinions on when I should put the fruit into the beer.  I am under the 
impression that I should put it in the primary fermenter (put the fruit 
in the wort) then put it in the primary.  

I've also seen recipes that have the fruit put in the secondary.  Any 
opinions will be appreciated. 


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Date: 10 Aug 94 16:52:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Rakes/Oak Casks

Well, just back from 18 days in Britain where I learned a few things
that might be of general interest.

Rakes:
I visited about 6 or 8 breweries (I'm still jet-lagged out... hard to think...
tried to drive on the wrong side of the road this morning) and asked the
brewmasters at every one whether they use the rakes during the sparge.  The
resounding answer was NO, and that the rakes are used only for spent grain
removal.  In some, the rakes fold up, completely out of the mash until needed
for grain removal.

Oak Casks:
Over the last couple of years, I've been saying that "all the oak casks used
by the british brewers are made of European oak and are pitch-lined so they
impart no flavor to the beer."  Well, now it's time to eat crow.  There may
be some brewers that do use pitch-lines casks, but the Samuel Smiths brewery
in Tadcaster used unlined oak casks.  The beer I tasted at the Angel and White
Horse (the pub that is shares walls with the brewery) did not taste woody at
all.  I wrote this off to the European oak and made a few notes in my notebook.

Well, Monday afternoon, my wife Karen and I were having a few pints at the
Olde Cheshire Cheese, just off Fleet Street in London and while the Samuel
Smiths Old Brewery Pale Ale was only slightly woody, the SS Museum Ale was
*extremely* woody.  It did not taste oaky however -- the aroma/flavour was
less like oak and more like a dark wood.  Note that Tadcaster is near York
in the north and London is in the south, so perhaps the shipping in wood
or maybe just that the Museum Ale had slower turnover (it did not taste
oxidized and at least according to CAMRA's Good Beer Guide, they do not use
blanket pressure), but there was a definate woody note to both beers.

Not glad to be back...
Al.

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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 11:58:19 CDT
From: "MICHAEL L. TEED" <MS08653 at MSBG.med.ge.com>
Subject: Taylor T'stat recal

 .int homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

 First off, thanks to all who responded to my request for the Taylor
 T'stat modification. Most helpful.

 I decided that I would be happier if I could offset my Taylor unit by
 10 degrees rather than 5 as done in the previous mod. Instead of the 180 ohm
 resistor used for the 5 degree offset, I calculated and verified a value of
 91 ohms will work suitably within the 10 degree offset range desired.
 I verified this using 2 t'stats side by side, with the sensors strapped
 together to insure thermal tracking. In the 30-40 degree range, the units
 tracked identically down to the 32 degree thermometer readout limit with both
 increasing and decreasing temperatures. At 70 degrees there was a 5 degree
 offset between units, verifying as expected that the modification is not
 linear over the full range of measurement. I would still use a switch to bypass
  the modification per the original article to maintain accuracy above 40
 degrees. I dont have my data in front of me, but the 40-50 degree range was
 only 8-9 degrees off depending on which end of the scale you are on. Whether
 that is suitable accuracy for you is your decision, you may eliminate the
 switch if so.

 Just another mod for an already great brewtoy.

 BTW, there is still a couple Taylor's left at this store. Email me for info.

 Mike Teed


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Date: 10 Aug 94 11:43 CST
From: Wolfe at act-12-po.act.org
Subject: AHA Guidelines & Alcohol computation

     I've been reading the Classic Beer Style books and have seen in a
number of figures on how attenuated some styles of beer should be.
For example, Foster's _Porter_ suggests that a porter should ferment out to
about 25% of the original gravity (He means the final apparent gravity
here -- I checked the recipes in the back of the book.).  Given this, it's
easy to compute the expected alcohol by volume using ((OSG-FSG)/7.5).  The
problem is that when I use the .25 x OG = FG rule, the alcohol contents I
get from the above equation are considerably higher than those
cited in the AHA Style Guidelines.

     Can someone tell me why?  Is it because the alcohol levels for the AHA
Style Guidelines are computed based on real attentuation rather than
apparent attenuation?

Ed Wolfe
wolfe at act-12-po.act.org

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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 94 13:05:28 EDT
From: BeerGeek1 at aol.com
Subject: Bru Heat

In HBD 1496 Greg Ames asks about Bru Heat electric brew pots.

Well, I have one and I am very happy.  It is a plastic bucket 
(5 imp gal) with a heating coil and temp control.  There are
two types, one is 110 volts and the other is 220 volts.  The
110 volt is a joke, and you will be voting for the 56th 
president before the wort would think about boiling.  On the
other hand, the 220 volt unit works very well.  I live in a
two story condo with electric HVAC units on each floor, and it
is very easy to just un-plug one and plug in the bru-heat.

The only problem, and it really isn't one, is that since it is
a UK product, the plug is not included.  

One other thing, the instructions claim that you can use it to
mash grains.  I would be concerned that the grains would scotch.

My $0.02 worth

 -M


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Date: Wed, 10 Aug 1994 12:11:37 -0600 (CST)
From: DARREN TYSON <TYSONDR at SLUVCA.SLU.EDU>
Subject: Differences among beer mugs

Greetings hombrewers,

I had an interesting experience last night.  I remember reading about 
the differences in head retention when beer is decanted into diffeent 
vessels, but I never expected such a drastic difference!

I started bottling in 500 mL bottles, but my beer mug only holds about 
300 mL.  Wanting to taste a sample of the batch I bottled last week, I 
went to the basement and retrieved one of my new larger bottles.  I 
realized that I wouldn't be able to fit the entire contents into my 
usual glass beer mug so I found a large plastic mug I had saved from 
my college years that would hold half a liter.  I opened the bottle and 
began pouring.  As I poured the head kept growing and growing until it 
overflowed while I still had about 150 mL left in the bottle.  Trying 
not to disrupt the settled yeast too much I quickly grabbed a dinner 
glass from the cupboard.  When I poured the beer into this container 
there wasn't so much as a fizz!  No head at all!  When I had time to 
get my beer mug I decanted the beer from the glass and the plastic mug 
into my usual beer mug.  Perfect.  The head was about 2 cm and the 
retention was great.  The mug made all the difference.

This experience makes me wonder about comparisons of carbonation and 
head retention between and among different brewers.  Is that beer of 
yours really flat or has it merely been poured into the wrong 
container?  

May all your beer be homebrewed,

Darren                  tysondr at sluvca.slu.edu


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1498, 08/11/94