FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Re-Going to Germany... ("Daniel F McConnell")
  Mills Zymurgy (Jack Schmidling)
  Malt Shelf  Life (Wortmaster)
  Guardian Humulus saves the day (Mark Evans)
  Going to Portland/Re: When to add fruit (CliffR3500)
  Comparison of Wyeast #1098 & #1968/Summary of Holiday Brew Advice (Mark Peacock)
  A call to UC Davis, Heriot-Watt, and Siebel graduates... (Ash Baker)
  INBOX Message (See Below) (Mailer.MC1)
  Re: Chill Haze (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Yeast Lab's London Ale Liquid Yeast (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Re: Breweries in Antarctica ? (John DeCarlo              )
  wine (CLAY)
  Bars/good beer on the Cape (GONTAREK)
  ants, hopped photo film (CLAY)
  credentials ("Charles S. Jackson")
  Spirit of Belgium contest and conference ("Phillip Seitz")
  Wyeast Ale Yeasts (PAULDORE)
  California Lager Yeast? (GKRAUS)
  Aluminum pots (Sean C. Cox)
  alz and AL ("John L. Isenhour")
  Spirit of Belgium Conference footnote! ("Phillip Seitz")
  Fuller's ESB Clone (Larry Bristol)
  old pecuilar/caledonia double dark /treacle ("Andy Schultz - DP  at 290-1490")
  Re:Tumbleweed Grille & Microbrewery ("Brian Ehret")
  Re Copper Boiler ("Palmer.John")
  Sparge volume, bananas in weizen (Nancy.Renner)
  dishwasher sanitation/yeast starter (BRCMRC.BRMAIN.MMENDENH)
  RE: More on lautering rates (Darryl Richman)
  3 Gal. Cornelius Kegs (Young, Douglas )
  Learning Tastes in Beer Follow-up (Logan Dent)
  Steam Beer Suggestions (Jeff Guillet)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 21 Aug 1994 10:14:55 -0400
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Re-Going to Germany...

Subject:  Re:Going to Germany...



Your mail bounced.

Since your friend will be near Kaiserslatern he should DEFIANTLY visit 
Pirmesens.  They make some of the best and most under-rated brews (IMHO 
of course).  Try the Pirmenator, a hellebock, and their Pils is outrageous

If you catch the brewmaster on a good day, you will get a great tour as 
well as a sample of yeast IF you can convince him that you will take good
care of her. 

DanMcC



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Date: Sun, 21 Aug 94 12:34 CDT
From: arf at genesis.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Mills Zymurgy

 
 >From: "William F. Cook" <71533.2750 at compuserve.com>
 >Subject: Mills/Zymurgy
 
 >I have to agree with Jack about the recent Zymurgy article on Mills. Great 
 pains were quite obviously taken to avoid saying anything critical about 
 *any* of the products, lest they offend potential advertisers. The current 
 editorial staff is not providing a useful service to their readers. What I 
 wanted to see was a real review, not an advertisement for several products in 
 the guise of an article.   It's just a shame that I had to go through three 
 mills to find one that was satisfactory for *my* purposes. Unfortunately, 
 Zymurgy has done nothing to prevent others from having the same problems.
 
 I did everything I could to get them to do it right from threatening lawsuits 
 to just plain not advertising but what you see is the result and although an 
 improvement over the original galley proof, it is, as you say a dis-service 
 to the community.
 
 I suggest that anyone who feels strongly one way or the other take the time 
 to make their feelings known to the editor.  She thinks that I am a pain in 
 the butt but sometimes we have to be to get things right.
 
 Send your comments to:
 
         Dina Nishek.. 73252.3571 at CompuServe.COM.
 
 > For my money, the Maltmill is the best of the three I've owned, though I'm 
 annoyed at having to pay for 10-inch rollers when the hopper makes the 
 effective length only about 4 inches (I assume it would be too difficult to 
 turn the thing if the entire length was used).
 
 Your last statement is correct but the premise is a common misconception 
 about the MM and it is very simple to dis-prove.
 
 Just remove the hopper and hold it over a bucket.  Pour a pound of malt into 
 the hopper and see how long it takes to flow through the grain guides.  You 
 will find that on the current models (aprox 1 1/4 x 3/4), it flows at the 
 rate of 400 lbs per hour.  The opening only restricts the amount of grain 
 that lands on the rollers when the hopper is initially filled for the reason 
 you mentioned.  It is presumed that one will crank until the hopper is empty 
 and then stop to fill it agian.  It has no effect on the throughput up to 400 
 lbs per hour.  This is about the max rate it can crush at a reasonable RPM, 
 when it will indeed utilize the entire roller length.
 
 Just for reference, the  MM II has an opening of a 2" diameter circle and it 
 crushes at the rate of 4000 lbs per hour with a 1.5 HP motor.  With smaller 
 motors, the opening must be reduced.  It is truly amazing how fast grain can 
 flow through a small opening.
 
 js
 
 

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Date: Sun, 21 Aug 94 15:14:39 EDT
From: Wortmaster at aol.com
Subject: Malt Shelf  Life

I bought a 50lbs sack of Schreiner Belguim Malt.  It is stored in an
unairconditioned area of the house.  I live in New Orleans, La. and it is hot
and humid here.  I am wodering how long will it remain usable.
pls resond at wortmaster at aol.com
Thanks 
Bob Maginnis             Cresent City Homebrewers


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Date: Sun, 21 Aug 1994 16:25:28 -0600
From: evanms at lcac1.loras.edu (Mark Evans)
Subject: Guardian Humulus saves the day

        On friday a storm blew through Dubuque, Ia. which brought 50 mph
winds, torrential rains, and golf ball to baseball sized hail.  Thousands
of cars, windshields, windows, and homes--especially the vinyl/metal sided
ones--were damaged.  Plants and crops were stripped off their stalks. 
Window and windshield installer crews from other states came in to help
with the clean-up.         
        My five hop poles and strings had only a hand full of cones knocked
off; one vine was severed at the ground, so any harvestable cones will be
removed today.  Considering the poles are 20+ feet tall, I was amazed that
none blew down.  The Humulus Lupulus god was watching over us that day.

(a very hoppy brewer) mark evans



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Date: Sun, 21 Aug 94 17:23:28 EDT
From: CliffR3500 at aol.com
Subject: Going to Portland/Re: When to add fruit

Hello All,

I am going to Portland, OR in mid-September and was wondering if anyone had
some suggestions about brew-pubs/ micro-breweries that I should seek out.

> What about soaking the fruit in a mixture of alcohol and
> corn sugar before adding to the primary?  Anybody done this?
> It seems that it would create a syrup with more intense
> fruit flavors drawn out, and have the side benefit of
> sterilizing the fruit to some degree...

I bought a juice-extractor/steamer-cooker called a Mehu-Maija. It is
basically a three level device with a pan for boiling water on the bottom, a
juice collecting pan above that and a strainer on top to hold the fruit. This
device uses steam to extract the juice of the fruit. For example, when I make
a blackberry beer, I load the fruit into the Mehu-Maija and let it boil for
about a half an hour. The resulting juice is sterilized by the heat and yet
clear (getting a pectin haze has not been a problem with any fruit I have
used so far). I originally thought that the juice would just be watered down,
condensed steam, but it turns out that the juice is very fruity. You can add
this at anytime to the fermentation. The best part about it is that it is
very easy to bottle the sterile juice in a beer or champagne bottle to save
for later brewings. If you are really into fruit beers, this thing is
something that helps alot.

Cliff


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Date: Sun, 21 Aug 1994 22:43:36 -400 (EDT)
From: Mark Peacock <mpeacock at oeonline.com>
Subject: Comparison of Wyeast #1098 & #1968/Summary of Holiday Brew Advice

Here's the final results of my comparison between Wyeast's British Ale 
and London ESB Ale yeasts.

For those of you just tuning in, last month I cooked up a 
straight-forward pale ale (90/10 pale malt/crystal malt with Fuggles 
hops).  I split the batch in half, pitched one half with British Ale 
yeast and the other with London ESB.  I then fermented the batches under 
identical conditions -- namely, sitting side-by-side in my basement.  OG 
was 1.054.

Primary fermentation lasted 3 days at 68 degrees F.  Both batches started 
burping quickly, although the British ale batch burped at a greater rate 
than the ESB batch.  On day 2 of primary, the British batch was still 
burping strong while the ESB batch sat silent.  The ESB yeast had 
completely floc'd out of solution.  I swirled the ESB batch a few times 
during over the next day, but it remained silent.  At racking time, the 
British ale was still burping.  The British SG was 1.014, the ESB SG 
1.022.

Day 1 of secondary found the situation reversed; the ESB was now giving 
about 1 burp per minute while the British sat quiet.  The batches sat in 
the secondary for 14 days.  At bottling, both SG's were 1.008.

After three weeks in the bottle, my wife and I had a mini blind tasting.  
We poured three glasses for the other -- two of one batch, one of the 
other.  The taster only had to identify which glass was different from 
the other two.  The first round was very easy -- the ESB has a _very_ 
floral aroma.  On the second round, we didn't allow ourselves to sniff 
for aroma; we concentrated on taste.  In this round, we were again
successful in identifying the unique glass.  My wife said that the British 
batch tasted "flatter" than the ESB batch.  I felt that the ESB batch has a 
sharper taste while the British batch has a blander taste, but with a fuller 
body, more mouth feel.

I found this exercise to be very worthwhile.  It was very interesting to 
taste the differences between yeast strains.

- ----------
On a different note, 
As someone mentioned in a previous digest, it is getting to be the time 
to start thinking about holiday brews.  Would some THREAD guru volunteer 
to spelunk through some past HBD's and post the summarized wisdom?  I 
would do it myself except for:  1)  I can't seem to get THREAD to read 
more than one HBD file, even when I wildcard and; 2)  I'm traveling on 
business all next week and won't even see my computer until next weekend.

Mark Peacock
Birmingham, MI

I'm not clever enough to deserve a sig line.

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Date:         Sun, 21 Aug 94 22:46:41 EDT
From: Ash Baker <3AVHB at QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA>
Subject:      A call to UC Davis, Heriot-Watt, and Siebel graduates...

 ...or present students, for that matter.  I would like know, if you can spare
the time, what you think of the brewing education you received or are
receiving.  Do you think it's relevant?  What are the professors like?  Is Dr
Lewis (to take a well known example) a good lecturer?  Does he, as the common
criticism goes, focus too much on Budweiser?  What are the curricula biased
towards: practical or scientific?  How many people are in the programs?  Does
Heriot-Watt lean towards ales? or Siebel towards lagers? or is it even an
issue?  How difficult is the AME?  What percent of graduates pass it?  What
are the job prospects like?  Does becoming an Associate Member of the IOB make
a huge difference, as far as finding employment is concerned?  Do breweries
actively recruit at any of these schools?  What is life like at these
institutions?  What is the demographic makeup of the student body?

&c, &c, &c.  You get the picture.  In short, if anyone associated with Siebel,
UC Davis or Heriot-Watt can supply me with any information about what it's
like at the schools, I would be extraordinarily grateful.

Thanks in advance!

Ash Baker
ash at io.org -- Whitby, Ontario
3avhb at qucdn.queensu.ca -- Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario

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Date: 22 Aug 94 02:20:19 U
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Subject: Homebrew Digest #1507 (August 22, 1994)



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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 09:37:10 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Re: Chill Haze


In HBD 1507, David Allison 225-5764 <ALLISON.DAVID at A1GW.GENE.COM> wrote:
> 
> I have a chill haze problem with my Pale Ales that I was hoping to get
> some help from HBD-land. [Rest deleted]
> 
     Chill haze is one form of protein haze and is the result of an
excess of undegraded proteins or permanently soluble nitrogen in the
beer. This could possibly be an indication of poor malt or it could be
as a result of your techniques. The boiling stage is the point where
proteins should be being dealt with. I boil vigorously for two hours
and also use Irish Moss which helps precipitate proteins from the wort.
Also, forced cooling after the boil helps more proteins precipitate out.
Protein hazes, in general, will not disappear over time in the way that
yeast etc. will settle out of a beer during conditioning. It is possible
to help clear protein hazes with auxilliary finings (not the same as
normal finings) but it shouldn't be neccessary if a good boil is done
and if Irish Moss is used during the boil. All ales will show protein
haze to an extent if chilled excessively - you mention chilling to 34F
which will only make the haze worse. Us Brits. are often considered
strange by people from the US because we drink our beers relatively
warm - if you're chilling your Pale Ales too much then you may never
be free of protein hazes unless you use aux. finings - not my personal
choice. Protein hazes only effect the look of the beer - they do not
effect the taste or stability. When I worked in a pub, if people made
comments about hazes on the ales, our standard reply was "What do you
want to do? Read your newspaper through it?". I know some people have
problems with beer that isn't crystal clear - I don't and actually
consider absolute clarity as being false. If I do get a slight haze
on my beers, I just explain the science to my friends and point out
that its not a problem and wont cause upset stomachs etc. They're
normally happy with this - especially after they taste it!
Cheers,
     Brian


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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 09:59:28 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Yeast Lab's London Ale Liquid Yeast


     Has anyone any comments on this yeast? I bought some on
Saturday afternoon and made a starter culture as per the
instructions. It says that activity should be expected at 12
hours and that it should be ready for use at 12-24 hours. On
Sunday morning when starting to brew there was absolutely no
activity in the starter bottle (18 hours after making the
starter). After making the brew and cooling the wort, there
was only a very small amount of activity (29 hours after
making the starter). I considered the activity to be just
enough to allow pitching and figured that as it had slowly
been picking up over the previous few hours that it should
be OK. It was pitched at 9pm last night and at 8am this
morning there was not much in the way of any activity in the
beer. Is this a poor quality yeast or have I just got a duff
batch? I used the same methods as for my last 8 batches of
brew which have all been successful. At this rate, I shall
go back to using dried packet yeasts - I've had no problems
with them.
Cheers,
     Brian


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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 07:48:12 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Breweries in Antarctica ?

richard childers writes:

>Unfortunately, I can't hack using a phone book. Can everyone give me some
>pointers to all those great breweries you've found crawling around in the
>South American and Antarctic continents ?

Thanks for the humor attempt.  I know that these types of requests are 
annoying, but as someone who succumbs to *making* them and *answering* them 
from time to time, let me answer seriously (sure).

Ideally, from my point of view, each post would say:

"I looked in the publist on sierra and found three brewpubs in Main City, 
State.  I would appreciate first-hand info on newer brewpubs not in the list 
as well as these three, since I will only have time to visit two of them.  I 
will not summarize to the Digest, but will provide summaries to those who ask 
for them, since this localized information is not of general interest."

I heartily thank all those who have given me info and mention a couple of 
reasons why a phone book and even a publist is insufficient.

1) I don't have access to a phone book from that far away (OK, one of the 
larger libraries in the area should have it, but I'm lazy).  The long-distance
operators prefer a name to "any brewpubs in the general vicinity".

2) I don't know the geography.  When I went to San Diego, I could look up the 
San Diego brewpubs, but needed local help to find out that La Jolla, Pacific 
Beach, Del Mar, and other such locations are actually part of San Diego.  

3) I may be traveling with my family or by myself and appreciate comments like
"that place has good beer, but I wouldn't take my kids" or "it's a yuppy 
hangout" (in which case my father-in-law would probably appreciate going there
with me).

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 07:55:45 -0500 (EST)
From: CLAY at prism.clemson.edu
Subject: wine


forgive me for mentioning the w-word in this forum...  Is there a "wine-
making digest" or similar.  Thanks.
C. C. Lay
James Island, SC

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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 8:27:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV
Subject: Bars/good beer on the Cape

Hello all!  I will be vacationing on Cape Cod for ten days, and I
would appreciate hearing from anyone who has advice on good bars/
good beer/etc. either on the Cape, the Vineyard, or Nantucket.
I will be leaving on Wednesday, so a speedy reply would be greatly
appreciated.  TIA!

Rick Gontarek
Gontarek at ncifcrf.gov

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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 08:38:56 -0500 (EST)
From: CLAY at prism.clemson.edu
Subject: ants, hopped photo film


1)  Coyote - boric acid will kill your plants.  As with all else, the 
dose makes the poison.  Baits are usually the best method of long-term 
ant control.  Ants generally fall into two groups, trophically speaking.
Some prefer sugars and carbos, some prefer lipids and proteins.  Yours
may be ffeding on sap (sugars) or perhaps oils from the hop plants (which
is kinda neat, in my entomological opinion - hophead ants).  Find a sugar-
based bait (Drax, etc.) or an oil-based one (Amdro, Logic, etc.) and feed 
'em their last meal.  P.S.  Any ant that eats the bait will be affected - 
don't know if you are concerned about preserving the local ant fauna...

2) Glenace - track down your local chemical or pesticide-supply outfit and
buy a set of large Viton or barrier-laminate chemical-resistant gloves.  
Put your hops in 'em, fold the glove over a few time, and clothes-pin it 
shut.  (I am assuming that you don't have TONS of hops in the freezer.)
That's the cheapest way to buy high-tech chemical-resistant materials.  You
may also be able to find larger pouches made of the stuff used for storing
respirators, emergency gear, etc, in contaminated environments (i.e. they'll
keep emergency gear in a viton bag in a compartment on cropdusters, tractors,
etc.)  Sorry I don't have a source readily at hand.

All - apologies for taking up space.  I don't have access to commercial 
services w/out getting nasty-grams from Big Brother.
regards,
C.

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Date:     Mon, 22 Aug 94 7:43:53 CDT
From: "Charles S. Jackson" <sjackson at ftmcclln-amedd.army.mil>
Subject:  credentials

My fellow brewers,

      A small request from a new brewer who has benefitted immensely from this
learned group and loves to read the discussions of various technical issues.
I am  severly chemically-challenged and frequently must rely on the conclusions 
of the poster.  Sometimes there is enough noise to weigh the issue on the 
volume of support, but often not.  At the risk of inviting horn-tooting, 
perhaps highly technical posts could be prefaced by the writers credentials.  
Mind you, I don't solicit a CV, but rather a brief introduction.  This would 
help those of us who want to make better beer and become better informed,but 
have difficulty deciding who to listen more closely to.

     If this request is way off base then feel free to flame me into charcoal, 
but kindly do in my mail box (you can't overfill my box) and not on HBD.  As 
usual if there is enough spirited response i will summarize.  Any similarly 
challenged folks who concur please tell me.

Steve
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brewing beer is far more exciting when it is both a hobby AND a felony!
                                            The Alabama Outlaw

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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 09:30:01 -0400
From: "Phillip Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com>
Subject: Spirit of Belgium contest and conference

Brewers United for Real Potables (BURP) is pleased to announce the 
Spirit of Belgium conference and homebrew contest, the first US event 
ever to focus on Belgian beer and brewing.  The conference will be held 
on November 11 and 12, 1994, with the contest on November 12.  Contest 
entries for the AHA sanctioned competition will be accepted in the 
following categories:

Belgian ale
Belgian strong ale
White beer
Double
Triple
Oud bruin (Flanders brown)
Oud bruin with fruit
pLambic and Gueuze
pLambic and Gueuze with fruit

We are making every effort to assure that your valuable Belgian-style 
beers will get the best judging and feedback possible.  We've already 
held a month-long advanced training course for SOB judges, and will be 
calling on several of our distinguished conference speakers and 
visitors to judge Best of Show.  Ribbons will be awarded to all winners.

The deadline for contest entries is October 31, so there's still time 
to brew something special for the contest.

If you'd like a packet containing contest entry materials and 
conference registration forms, send me your address via e-mail.  We 
expect to do our first mailing within a week.

For those who might be able to join us in the Washington, D.C. area for 
the conference, here's some additional information:

Spirit of Belgium Conference and Homebrew Competition
Falls Church, Virginia
11-12 November 1994

This is the first ever two-day US event focused entirely on Belgian beer and 
brewing.  The Spirit of Belgium is designed to provide technical coverage of 
Belgian beer styles and how to brew them, as well as an opportunity for 
participants to experience the rich cultural history associated with Belgian 
beer and brewing.

AGENDA:

Friday, 11 Nov 94

11:00am-1:00pm Check-in and Registration

1:00pm-5:00pm  Technical Sessions
Pierre Rajotte, author and brewing consultant, will discuss practical tips 
and techniques for yeast handling, high gravity brewing, and refermentation 
in the bottle.

Daniel McConnell, PhD, microbiologist and owner of the Yeast Culture Kit 
Company, will lecture on yeast metabolism and the contribution of metabolic 
byproducts to beer flavor.

Phillippe Perpete, Brewing scientist, Universite Catholique de Louvain
Laboratory of Brewing Science, will provide a review of research on
refermentation in bottles and kegs.

Speaker X will review Belgian beer styles and discuss recipe formulation. 

7:00pm-10:00pm  Reception featuring beers of Belgium.  Light hors d+oerves 
will be served to complement the accompanying beers.  Various importers 
will be represented.

Saturday, 12 Nov 94

8:00am-2:00pm  Spirit of Belgium Homebrew Competition Judging (Judges and 
Stewards only, please.  Others may use this time to visit area 
Microbreweries (Dominion and Potomac River) and Brewpubs (Cap City, Bardo, 
and a number of new places slated to open soon).  The contest is open for 
all AHA Belgian Beer styles.  Entry deadline is Oct 31, 1994.  Anyone 
interested in entering or judging may contact Phil Seitz at 
p00644 at psilink.com for entry forms and information.  Preference for judging 
slots will be given to experienced judges attending the conference.

2:30pm-3:30pm  Celis Tasting.  A tasting of products from the Celis Brewery 
in Austin, TX hosted by brewery representatives.  The brewery plans to have 
a product brewed with *raspberries* included in the tasting.

4:00pm-5:00pm  Illustrated lecture on the history of beer and brewing in 
Belgium.

6:00pm-7:30pm  Spirit of Belgium Banquet.  A five course, authentic Belgian 
banquet accompanied by six beers presented by importer Vanberg and DeWulf. 
Here is the tentative lineup:

     Mesclun served in Dill Crouton with Raspberry Viniagrette -- Geueze 
	Boon

     Cream of Leek Soup -- Affligem Tripel

     Steamed Mussels with Garlic and Chives -- Saison Dupont

     Carbonnade Flammande with baby vegetables -- Rodenbach Grand Cru

     Chocolate Mousse -- Vintage Framboise Boon

     After Dinner -- Scaldis

7:30pm-8:00pm  Spirit of Belgium Homebrew Competition Awards Ceremony.

8:00pm-?  Hospitality and Beer Sampling

Cost is $125 per person for the entire event, $50 for the banquet only.

The venue for the event is the Ramada Inn in Tyson's Corner.  The hotel
will provide rooms at a special conference rate of $65 (single or
double) for Friday and Saturday nights.

Many other surprises are in the works.  We will be mailing out
registration  packs in the next week or so.  Anyone who wants to request
one should  contact Tim Artz, Charlie Gow or me with a mailing address.
Attendance will be limited to about 200 due to site and meal logistics,
so get your requests for info in soon.

Contact:
Charlie Gow:  Phone (703)319-9142, e-mail cgow at mailstorm.dot.gov
Tim Artz:  Phone (703)339-8028, Fax (703)339-8028, e-mail tartz at btg.btg.com
Phil Seitz: e-mail p00644 at psilink.com

[Note to homebrew club members; you are welcome to reproduce this 
information in your club newsletters if you think it would be of 
interest to your members]


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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 09:44:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: PAULDORE at delphi.com
Subject: Wyeast Ale Yeasts

I am looking into brewing an English Ale, and want to keep it within the
true style of a British Ale using English Malts and hops. My question is
there seem to be a few different English Ale yeasts made by Wyeast, which
one should I use and why??

Also the recipe i have calls for Fuggles and Kent hops. Are these correct to
keep with in style?

Pauldore at delphi.com   

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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 10:09:38 EST
From: GKRAUS at UV1.IM.MED.UMICH.EDU
Subject: California Lager Yeast?

This is my first posting to the HBD.   I'm a true novice to home brewing
(having just started my third batch), and would like to try a lager.
I don't have the frig space or equipment for cooling the fermentation,
but have been told that Wyeast 1214 will work at 60-65 degrees (basement
temps) as well as Wyeast 2112.   These are both supposed to be "California
lager yeasts"?   I haven't been able to find either locally but did find
a California Lager yeast L35.  Are ALL California lager yeast warmer
fermenting yeasts.   The supply store that carries L35 didn't really
know anything about it.  Thanks!

Gene Kraus      E-Mail to gkraus at med.umich.edu




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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 9:23:09 EDT
From: scox at factset.com (Sean C. Cox)
Subject: Aluminum pots

Nothing like beating a dead horse, but...

	A couple years ago, back in college, one of my roommates made some
pasta sauce in an aluminum pot, we ate about half, and then let the remaning
parts "rest" in the pot for about 2 weeks.  We only noticed becaus of the 
little red dots that we kept finding in the fridge (where it was stored).
When we finally took it out to clean it (it was kinda green) we noticed about
a dozen BB sized holes (and more smaller ones) in the pot!  The tomatoes had
eaten the aluminum to the point that it had gone through the sides!
	Now I'll bet that tomato sauce is more acidic than wort, but I also 
know that wort-boiling temps are way higher than those in that fridge. The
result of this is that you can (will?) end up with aluminum in your beer. Is
it a health risk?  I'm not the person to ask, but I've SEEN the stuff 
dissolved into an acidic solution at refrigerator temps, so I'd bet it'd do 
the same (if not better) at boiling.

	-- Sean

=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
=*=*= Sean Cox             *=*=*=* (defun question ()              *=*=*=*=*=
=*=*= FactSet Data Systems *=*=*=*    (or (* 2 b) (not (* 2 b))))  *=*=*=*=*=
=*=*= scox at factset.com     *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*EOT

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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 09:58:10 CST
From: "John L. Isenhour" <isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov>
Subject: alz and AL

I dont keep references like this in my head, but there was an article
in Science several months ago that indicated the original studies that
found elevated AL concentrations  in the cerebral plaque of alzheimers
patients was an artifact introduced by the testing process.

- --
John Isenhour                       
renaissance scientist and AHA/HWBTA National Beer Judge 
home: john at hopduvel.chi.il.us
work: isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov 




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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 11:40:33 -0400
From: "Phillip Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com>
Subject: Spirit of Belgium Conference footnote!

A number of people have commented on the Conference starting on a
Friday.  Not to worry!  November 11 is the Friday of Veteran's Day
weekend, a three day weekend with Friday off.  Interested participants
could travel on Thursday evening or Friday morning, and return on
Sunday.

Now on with the show!

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Date:         Mon, 22 Aug 94 10:38:12 CDT
From: Larry Bristol <LBRISTOL at SYSUBMC.BMC.COM>
Subject:      Fuller's ESB Clone

In a recent HBD, Chuck Mryglot requested recipes for cloning Fuller's
ESB.  My email bounced so I decided to post my recipe publicly.

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Fuller's ESB is by far and away my favorite (commercial) beer, and it has
always been a high priority with me to find a way to clone it.  Several
attempts have brought forth some very pleasing beers, but they never
quite matched up to the taste of the commercial variety.

Until the most recent attempt, that is!  I think I have a very close
clone on tap right now.  I keg rather than bottle, and I am comparing
this brew to the draught Fuller's that is available in the Houston area;
I would suspect (hope, anyway) that the same recipe, if bottled, would be
comparable to the bottled Fuller's ESB species.

All-grain recipe for 5 US gallons:

     12#   British pale ale malt     1oz Centennial hops (11.2% AA)
      1.5# British light carapils    1oz British fuggles (4.0% AA)
      1#   British medium crystal   0.25oz Kent Goldings (5.2% AA)

    1/3 oz Burton water salts (treatment for very soft water)
           Wyeast #1968 (London ESB)

Mash at 154F (high temp to promote dextrins) for 60 mins or until starch
test negative.  Sparge to collect 6 gallons.  Boil for 20 minutes before
hop addition.  Boil centennials for 60 mins; add fuggles when 15 mins
remain; goldings for dry hopping in secondary.  I calculate the hop
rate at 12.2 HBU.

Incidentally, I am just about 125% sure that Fuller's does *NOT* use
centennials in their ESB.  This recipe is not an attempt to duplicate
their processing or ingredients, just the flavor of the finished product.
So no flames about how this could not possibly be an authentic recipe,
please! <g>  A reasonable substitute (and probably closer to reality)
would be to use all fuggles (about 2.75 oz for equivalent bittering).

I got the following vital statistics:
     O.G. - 1.060
     R.G. - 1.018 (after 3 days in primary at 72F)
     F.G. - 1.016 (30 days in secondary at 72F)
I kegged and force carbonated at 8psi/40F, tapping after 18 days.  At
first, I was concerned that the dry hops had given it too much of a hop
character, certainly more than present on the target.  But after a few
more days, the hops had blended and softened quite a bit and seems to .
be about right.  If anything is wrong with the recipe, I think it gives
a bit more body than Fuller's, so I will probably cut back slightly (maybe
reduce the carapils from 1.5# to only 1#) next time.

I think the main reason this recipe seems to have worked as well as it
did has to be attributed to the Wyeast #1968.  According to some rumors
I have heard, this actually *IS* Fuller's yeast!  I don't know about that,
but it certainly has aromas and properties that remind me of Fuller's
during the fermentation process.  It certainly smelled like Fuller's ESB
at racking and at kegging!  I have subsequently learned that it is most
probably a derivative of their yeast, but not exactly the same thing they
use.  Another local homebrewer claims to have a source for the "real thing"
which I hope to try out on the next batch.

I would love to hear about any other recipes you get, and also about the
results you get with this or any other recipes!

HAPPY BREWING!

- ------------------------------------------------------------
Larry Bristol      |  A true Hitchhiker
SYSUBMC.BMC.COM    |      always knows where
(713)274-7802      |      his towel is.
- ------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 11:13:19 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Andy Schultz - DP  at 290-1490" <ASCHULTZ at MADMAX.MPR.ORG>
Subject: old pecuilar/caledonia double dark /treacle

I just picked up 2 lbs of Lyles treacle from a specialty store that is
going out of business locally.  I generally brew IPA's and brown ales and
don't really know what to do with it, although I love most styles - I guess
I've just been in a rut......  Any extract based suggestions?

Also, I just had my first taste of Old Peculiar and Caledonia Double dark
ale, and said YUM! many times for each of these. I loved the apple note
(for lack of a better term) in the Peculiar (how can I duplicate this - DANG
it's good!) and taste of what I think is brown sugar, molassass (or is it
treacle!) in the Caledonia. Any extract based recipie suggestions for these?

Private email fine if not of general interest - TIA 
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|    Andy Schultz                         Internet:  ASCHULTZ at MPR.ORG         |
|    Minnesota Public Radio                  Phone:  612-290-1490             |
|      'You can play sharp or flat in tune' : Ornette Coleman                 |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|

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Date: 18 Aug 1994 12:26:17 U
From: "Brian Ehret" <Brian_Ehret at macmail.eng.gulfaero.com>
Subject: Re:Tumbleweed Grille & Microbrewery

Chris Lovelace (lovelace at pop.nih.gov) asked:

>I'm headed down to visit my parents in Winston-Salem, NC later this week
>and I'm thinking about a side trip to Boone to check out the Tumbleweed
>brewpub.  Does anyone know where in Boone it is located?  Does anyone know
>if its possible to get a tour of their brewing facilities?


I went there over the July 4th weekend.  They had a Black Cherry Kriek, a
stout, and Amber Ale, and a ? Pale Ale ?.  I believe that they change their
selection frequently.  They have a sampler available (I didn't see it in the
menu) which gives you a taste of each without ordering a full mug of each. 
They are located on Hwy 321 (122 Blowing Rock Rd.-(704) 264-7111) across the
street from Appalachian State College at the northwest end of what appears to
be the main business/tourist district.  I asked if I could see their brewing
setup and was told "NO." :(   Oh, well, the beer and food were good.  Enjoy the
trip!! 

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Date: 22 Aug 1994 09:33:09 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Re Copper Boiler

Kevin Cawley wrote about his copper boiler:
It was most likely plated with Tin, which is not good for brewing. The copper
is fine, but you need to get the Tin out of there. Aidan-the-Kloset-Kiwi had
the same problem and I recommended dissolving the tin out using salt water and
a battery. White Distilled Vinegar would probably work too. How did it work for
you, Aidan?

John J. Palmer - MDA-SSD M&P  palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com  
Metallurgist for International Space Station Alpha

>My file, How to Brew Your First Beer, containing info on equipment,
terms, brewing processes and troubleshooting, is available via FTP
from Homebrew/Docs at sierra.stanford.edu or via WWW on Spencer's
Beer Page at http://guraldi.hgp.med.umich.edu/Beer/

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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 12:32:02 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Sparge volume, bananas in weizen

 From *Jeff* Renner 
 
Lowell Hart has a problem with "leaving a lot of sugar on the grain" after 
he has sparged enough volume.  He doesn't want to throw all of that out, and 
wonders how to get more of the sugar in the first runnings.  Lowell, I think 
the solution (no pun) to your problem will become apparent if you look at it 
differently.  You have too much grain!  Your rate of extraction is very 
good, so your recipe is good for maybe six gallons of wort, not five.  Cut 
down on your grain bill (and maybe hops) until you have the amount of sparge 
you want at the appropriate gravity, making sure that your final runnings 
stay below pH 5.8 or so and are about SG 1.006 or 8. 
 
JohnNewYrk doesn't like bananas in his weizen.  Neither do I.  You've 
already suggested three good changes that should work, higher pitching rate, 
proper wort aeration and cutting your fermentation temp from the low 70s to 
the low 60s.  Your procedure has optimized bananas, as well as the higher 
alcohols (fusels), which cause headaches.  Use a good weizen yeast (single 
strain YeastLab or Wyeast), make a starter, then aerate and ferment 10 
degrees cooler.  It's worked well for me. 
 
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan

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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 10:37:48 -0700
From: BRCMRC.BRMAIN.MMENDENH at EMAIL.STATE.UT.US
Subject:  dishwasher sanitation/yeast starter

Could anyone out there with experience and success in cleaning or
sanitizing bottles in a dishwasher share the technique?  While giving
this a little thought over the last few days I've pondered a couple
of questions:  Will Cascade (the soap, not the hops) and my
dishwasher set on "extra hot" do the trick?  Should I soak bottles in
a bleach solution beforehand and rinse and drip-dry in the dishwasher
afterward?  Can I use bleach in the dishwasher as a sanitizer or does
hot water eliminate the sanitizing qualities of the bleach (or is
there another sanitizing agent that works well with hot water)?  Or,
should I take my laboriously collected bottle supply (entailed
dedicated and exhaustive consumption efforts) to the recycling center
and buy a keg set-up?  I don't sense much interest out there so a
private e-mail response is fine.  

Regarding yeast starters, I used a 1-qt. starter for the first time
with my last batch and the reduced lag time over pitching just the
Wyeast packet volume has sold me on the necessity of starters.  My
question is:  Should I use the starter at high kraeusen (about 24
hrs. after I pitched) and pitch the entire 1 qt. volume into the wort
(this is what I did with my last beer) or should I wait until the
yeast has settled out of suspension, pour off the liquid and just
pitch the yeast slurry?  Will my lag times be similar with either
method?  Patiently awaiting a response. . .  


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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 09:34:44 PDT
From: Darryl Richman <darrylri at microsoft.com>
Subject: RE: More on lautering rates

It has become clear that the information I sent last week to the HBD 
could use a bit of clarification.

In HBD #1506, I said:
> One of the interesting things I learned while researching "Bock", and
> which I included in the book, is that the folks at Weihenstephan have a
> general recommendation for lautering decoction mashes at a pretty slow
> rate, which is based on the surface area of the lauter tun (assuming a
> uniform depth and a uniform drainage).  By specifying the rate per
> square area, they are really describing a particular flow rate of fluid
> through the bed.  The rate recommended was approximately 1 gallon / (6
> minute * square foot) to start, speeding up to 1/4 as the wort thins
> out.  (I'm quoting from memory, always a dangerous thing.)  These
> figures are quoted from volume 2 of Narziss' "Die Technologie der
> Bierbereitung".  Also, Narziss indicates a shallower bed for decoction
> mashes than Hough et al in "Malting and Brewing Science" do for
> infusion mashes.

Note that these values are flow rate coefficients.  So, 0.18 gal/ ft^2 
min (for example) must be multiplied by your lauter tun's cross section 
to get a recommend flow rate.  If you are using a Sankey keg for a 
lauter tun, it has a diameter of 16 inches => 1.4 ft^2 of cross 
sectional area.  Therefore, an initial outflow rate should be about 1.4 
ft^2 * 0.18 gal/ft^2 min = 0.25 gal/min.  If you used this one rate for 
the entire lautering, of say 15 gallons, then it would take 15 gal / 
(0.25 gal/min) => 60 min, or 1 hour.

If you have any questions about this, please feel free to mail to me.  
Thanks, and sorry for any confusion.

		--Darryl Richman

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Date: Mon Aug 22 12:54:04 1994
From: <DYOUNG at fcc.gov> (Young, Douglas )
Subject: 3 Gal. Cornelius Kegs

Anybody out there have a good source for 3 gal. Cornelius kegs?  They are a
convenient size for my beer refrigerator.  Please e-mail me directly with any
addresses, phone numbers, price info, etc.

TIA
Doug Young
dyoung at fcc.gov



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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 11:01:58 MDT
From: ldent at crash.Colorado.EDU (Logan Dent)
Subject: Learning Tastes in Beer Follow-up

Hello, All!

I asked a question a few weeks ago about how to learn
about the tastes in beer.  I mentioned a couple of
examples, namely phenols and fusel alcohols.  I got a
reply from Spencer Thomas with suggestions for these two
tastes.  Unfortunately, his was the only reply I recieved.
It was very helpful, but I was hoping
for something that addressed many of the tastes one finds in
beer.  I looked at the BJCP study guide, but that was more
greared to refreshing one's memory.  If anyone knows of a
good way to go about learing these tastes, I would appreciate
any suggestions.

Logan

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Date: Wed, 17 Aug 1994 17:56:00 GMT
From: jeff.guillet at lcabin.com (Jeff Guillet)
Subject: Steam Beer Suggestions


I am planning on making my first attempt at a Steam beer this weekend.  
It's pretty much based on CP's "The Sun Has Left Us On Time" Steam beer 
recipe.

  8 lb Alexender's Pale LME
 .5 lb 10L Crystal Malt
1.5 oz Northern Brewer Whole Hops (full boil)
 .5 oz Northern Brewer Whole Hops (finishing)
Wyeast 2112 (California Lager)

Does anyone have any tips on using this yeast?  I have no refrigeration 
equipment available, but that's what Steam beer is all about isn't it?

Do you think I should dry hop this batch?

Thanks in advance...   Jeff

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Jeff Guillet - Pacifica, CA - <j.guillet at lcabin.com>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
- ---
* CMPQwk #1.4* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1509, 08/24/94