FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Yeast culturing (Richard Buckberg)
  Re:"boiling water" (Jim Busch)
  Peat smoked malt (Alan Pagliere)
  Mash schedules (Bob Jones)
  Alzheimers and Aluminum (Bryan Kornreich)
  Dream Tun (npyle)
  Toronto brewpubs (Stephen Schryburt)
  tripels (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  D.C. Pubs/ Rootbeer (/R=ENSRV1/R=AM/U=millst/FFN=MILLST/)
  Lautering (George J Fix)
  Re: Gott Cooler Spigot (djt2)
  Aluminum and a can o' worms (DARREN TYSON)
  DeWolf & Cosyns or Klages? (Lee Bollard)
  check number (uswlsrap)
  Results of Steam: Ale or Lager? (David Draper)
  Water hardness defined (Nancy.Renner)
  Big .sigs and personalities, also Great Taste (uswlsrap)
  "Automatic" Sparge Ring (John Dodson)
  Brewing Classes (Swshea)
  1994 All About Ales Competition (Michael Ligas)
  Weird beer . . . (DATADUMP)
  Trouble shooting dry flavor (Terry Terfinko)
  States Where HomeBrewing Illegal (John DeCarlo              )
  Russian Light Beer venture (Thomas Redmond)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 10:27:53 -0700
From: Richard Buckberg <buck at well.sf.ca.us>
Subject: Yeast culturing


As most brewers who like the Wyeast strains, I have had trouble getting one
packet to start fermentation in a 5 gallon batch in a reasonable amount of
time.  I then learned that the packets are not intended to provide enough
yeast cells to really innoculate 5 gallons and get fermentation rolling
within 24 hours.  

The answer is to make a starter culture, and give the yeast a head start,
with a target of about 400 ml of active yeast slurry for pitching.  So I
brewed up a batch of 1.020 wort, put it in a sterile bottle, one-way valve
on top, dark place, temp 65F or so.  

In about 600 ml of wort, it has taken 5 days to get just the slightest
krausen going in the bottle, using London 1028.  What is the secret here?
Is quality control at Wyeast really bad?  Do they send out really wimpy
packages?  What is the story on getting these fine yeasts to start?  even
with the package being fully expanded prior to pitching to starter it still
seems too slow.

Return to table of contents


Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 14:39:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re:"boiling water"

Al writes:
> I think the discussion of limestone caves doesn't have anything to do
> with brewing either.

It does if you are a caver!
> 
> >Chlorine
> Chlorine in the water can result in beer with chlorophenols in it, which
> are particularly unwelcome in beer and can be detected at very low levels.
> I personally feel that all brewing water should be boiled... if you have
> time to make beer, you can make the additional time to make better beer.

What???!  Just what I need, another couple of hours boiling tons of water!
My propane bills are high enough already!!
I would rephrase it as: If you have time to brew beer, you have time to
install a simple activated carbon filter that will remove chlorine from
your brewing water without requiring the time intensive boiling ritual.

Good brewing,

Jim Busch


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Date: 22 Aug 94 14:30:30 EDT
From: Alan Pagliere <71201.1047 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Peat smoked malt

        Does anyone know where one could find malt that has been smoked with 
peat smoke? I am a lover of single malts (especially the smokey Islay ones), 
and would like to try using some of the malt they use in some homebrews. I 
have read in some magazine or other (zymurgy, Brewing Techniques, or 
somewhere) that some micros out west are using such a malt, which of course 
means that it is available somehow in the US. Where might one try? Private 
e-mail to my address on Compuserve is fine, unless others might be interested.
        My address is: 71201.1047 at compuserve.com
        Or, if you happen to be on Compuserve, use 71201,1047
Thanks.

       Alan Pagliere           |----------------------------------|
  71201.1047 at compuserve.com    |     "Drink Less. Taste More."    |
                               |----------------------------------|

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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 11:43:11 +0900
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Mash schedules

Thanks to George Fix for the info. on mash schedules. I (as well as others)
have become lazy over the years and have reduced the number of mash
temperature steps for speed sake. Yield isn't a big factor for most
homebrewers, but fermentability IS. Since most homebrewers way underpitch
the amount of required yeast for a good ferment this is usually an easy
target. However, once they have the yeast under control the poor ADF's
usually result in mash schedules or poor quality malt. With this many
factors envolved, it is pretty hard to isolate problems. Your timely info.
on mash schedules is well timed and should help to further point out this
area of concern for those interested.

You did not mention a mashout step! Have you eliminated the mashout step and
still get that high of a mash efficiency?

We are all looking forward to your new book!

Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 14:45:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bryan Kornreich <bkornrei at welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Alzheimers and Aluminum

Ok, here's the deal.
There is certainly a relationsip between chronic aluminum toxicity and  
Alzheimers disease. In fact, researchers use aluminum injections (into 
the blood--not directly into the brain) of hamsters to induce the 
neurofibrillary changes of Alzheimers as positive controls in experiments 
to see if other things can cause Alzheimers. (Geronotology. 37 Suppl 
1:31-42, 1991)
     However, the amounts of aluminum required are really really HUGE.  
 Wettstein et al. published "Failure to Find a Relationship between 
mnestic skills of octogenarians and aluminum in drinking water" 
(International Archives of Occupational and Environmental Health. 
63(2):97-103, 1991) where he compared old people in areas with tons of 
aluminum in the water and old people with almost no aluminum in the 
drinking water, they gave the people mental acuity tests and found no 
difference between the two groups.  They also compared the people's serum 
aluminum levels, just to ensure that there really were differences in the 
blood levels of aluminum. 
       Nonetheless, the jury is still out and there is still debate on the
issue.  It has been proposed that indeed aluminum DOES have the ability to
cross the blood-brain barrier by using the same receptor that Iron ions
use ("Aluminum access to brain: a role for transferrin and its receptor". 
Roskins and Connor. Proc Nat Acad of Sci USA. 87(22):9024-7. 1990 Nov.). 
And it is almost certain that huge levels of aluminum in blood cause
Alzheimers-type changes in the brain. 
     So in conclusion, if you use Aluminum pans, don't eat the pans.  But 
it seems pretty unlikely that any small amounts of aluminum that enter
your beer or food from cooking will have any effect whatsoever on your 
brain.  So relax. 
       --bryan

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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 12:31:28 MDT
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: Dream Tun

I'm working on the dream tun idea I discussed here a while ago, and have
come up with the following:

Insulated keg (using high-temp large diameter pipe insulation and aluminum
sheeting)

Undecided sprinkler mechanism for inlet, probably try to make it adjustable
to keep it below liquid level

Large dial thermometer on front

Slotted pipe manifold for outlet

My scrounging skills are improving and most of this stuff was free or pretty
darn cheap.  I decided against putting a sight tube in it because I didn't
think it would help much and I'd have to come up with a way to keep grains
out of it.  It would also add to the cleanup chore.  I may try to use the
sanke fitting as the drain (invert the keg and cut out the bottom).  If I
do this I would think a false bottom would be better than a manifold, but
then I'd have to add back in a manifold for my future upgrade:  steam
injection.  An easymasher style manifold might do the trick for this too.

The "far in the future, if ever" upgrade is a steam-injected RIMS.  I could
see this being easier to implement than the electric RIMS, ala Rodney
Morris.  Maybe not.  I think it would be a kindler, gentler, heating method
and might obviate the need for the fancy control circuit (this from an EE!).
I believe it was Al Einstein that said "Everything should be as simple as
possible, but not simpler".  How am I doing?  Should I add a stirring wand
mounted in the lid?  I could always connect it to a motor at a later date,
and then...

Anyway, the basic tun as outlined above will be built next week.  Any last
minute ideas will be seriously considered, and then of course I'll do
whatever I please.  Seriously, I'd appreciate any (more) feedback.

Cheers,
Norm npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com

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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 15:01:01 -0400
From: av257 at freenet.carleton.ca (Stephen Schryburt)
Subject: Toronto brewpubs

I will be visiting friends in Toronto next weekend and would like 
to visit a few brewpubs.  I have allready been to the Amsterdam
pub and really enjoyed it.

If you know of any other interesting brewpubs or beers that I should
try please let me know.  Thanks.

- --
av257 at freenet.carleton.ca

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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 12:07:42 -0700
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com>

Subject: Yakimania '94!!!

The 1994 Yakimania tour and 
debauchery is over, and what 
I remember of it was really 
great!

For those of you from out of 
town, a little geography is in 
order. Washington state is the 
farthest northwest of the 
continuous 48 states. The 
western half of the state is 
dominated by contact with 
the ocean and incoming 
moisture. Summer in Seattle 
usually happens on a 
Thursday. A tall mountain 
range, called the Cascades, 
bisects the state, blocking the 
rain from reaching the very 
dry eastern half. Yakima is 
the population center of the 
large agricultural area. The 
Yakima basin grows most 
everything that you can think 
of, and probably a few other 
things as well. The climate is 
similar to inland California, 
in that there is little rain, hot 
summers (probably colder 
winters though), and no real 
water to speak of. Hot and 
dry. But if you irrigate, the 
desert springs forth with 
bounteous harvest. Including 
hops.

There are just a few areas in 
north America that grow hops 
commercially, and Yakima is 
the center for that. There are 
some hop farms in Oregon, 
Idaho, and even Canada, but 
70% of all the hops grown in 
the U.S. come from Yakima. 
The local brewing club, the 
Yakima Enthusiastic Ale and 
Stout Tasters (or  Y.E.A.S.T 
for short) are kind enough 
and foolish enough to invite 
every brew club in the world 
to their neck of the woods 
this time of year for us to 
observe the harvest, ask 
stupid questions, and get in 
the way of the people working 
on the harvest. There is also a 
drunken bacchanal that 
finishes the day, as all of the 
(now thirsty) homebrewers 
get together for some serious, 
er, ahem, disciplined juice 
tasting. I was there, and I 
survived, living to tell the 
story of this event to my 
children and their children. 
And since I don't have any 
(children that is), I'll have to 
tell you...

The day started off bright and 
too damn early. I had a mead 
tasting the night before (a 
later posting to follow on how 
the Nazi pigs at the 
Washington State Liquor 
Control Board sought to ruin 
the event), but Yakima is 
miles away, so I picked up my 
brew-bud Jeff at 7:00 am in 
order to gather by the 10:00 
am meeting time. I shouldn't 
complain. Peter, the president 
of the Royal Canadian 
Malted Patrol (R.C.M.P.) and 
his crew left their digs at 3:00 
am. Ouch... An un-eventful 
and not too unpleasant drive 
got us to the designated 
meeting point, the 
warehouses of Hop Union in 
downtown Yakima, in plenty 
of time. As we got closer to 
the event, the directions 
started to get just a little 
fuzzy. We saw a van with a 
bumper sticker that said 'I 
Brew, therefore I Am.' I knew 
we were getting close. At Hop 
Union, we noticed a 
gathering of mostly men, 
mostly with big bellies, and 
many with facial hair. We had 
arrived.

As the faithful and early 
arrived, we spent a bit of time 
waiting for the late and 
faithless. Then the people in 
charge arrived and began to 
organize the thing. A 5$ 
registration fee got us a door 
prize number (your humble 
scribe got the unlucky 
number  of 002, but some 
other lucky dog later got a 
whole bag of grains for his 
trouble. Way to go Don!), 
with enough money left over 
to grease the palms of 
whomever was to be troubled 
by the arrival of three groups 
of thirty curious home 
brewers. Another 15$ got you 
the official 1994 Yakimania 
Tour de Hop T-shirt, a 
design of an intelligent hop 
bract quaffing down a frosty 
mug of brew, an artistic 
creation of Mr. Brew-Art 
himself, Alan Moen of 
Somewhere in the East, 
Washington. You've probably 
seen some of his work, as his 
Great Moments in Brewing 
cartoons and shirts are 
becoming legend in the 
brewing world. People insist 
on staring at my chest 
whenever I wear one. Usually 
only available in Large, Extra 
Large, and Really Really 
Large (also known as Corny 
keg, Pony keg, and Party 
keg...)
The people that showed up 
were split into three groups, 
taking turns at the three sites 
of brewing interest for the 
day. In order of beer 
processing, these tours were 
of:

1) Roy Farms, 700 acres of 
hop growing and processing,
2) Hop Union, Hop 
processors to the world and 
beyond, and
3) Bud Grant's Brewing 
operation.
Hot dogs and potato salad to 
be provided. Beer too.

Persons who brought kegs 
were heartily thanked, and 
relieved of their kegs, as they 
were placed in a hop 
warehouse (T=32 degrees F), 
to be transported to the site 
of the evenings festivities. 
Maps were distributed, and 
the curious went forth.

Tomorrow: the tours themselves

Rich Webb

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Date: 22 Aug 94 19:20:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: tripels

Phil writes:
>Commerical examples:
> 
>Brugse Tripel (9.5% ABV), Affligem Tripel (9% ABV),
>Grimbergen Tripel (8.13% ABV), Steenbrugge Tripel (9% ABV)

Must be a temporary lapse in concentration on Phil's part.  I'm sure
he meant to include Westmalle Tripel (the original, and in my opinion
finest, tripel) in the list of commercial examples.  After several
years of not being imported, this four-star beer (MJ) has again begun
to be imorted into the US.  Yay!

Al.

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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 13:03:52 MST
From: /R=ENSRV1/R=AM/U=millst/FFN=MILLST/ at ENSRV1MR.BCASD.AZ.HONEYWELL.COM
Subject: D.C. Pubs/ Rootbeer

 
  Hi,
  Would someone please send me some directions to some good brew pubs in the 
D.C. area  (preferably near the Grand Hyatt Hotel).  We are off  to a
conference 
in Washington D.C.  and would like to check out a few brew pubs in the area. 
Maybe we'll see you there.

 Thanks
  Tom

Q:
     I attempted to make some Rootbeer a while back and was somewhat
disappointed with the results.  The pressure was so great, that one of the
plastic 2-liter bottles exploded in my brew fridge.  The ones that didn't blow,
are very
volatile (i.e.  Open it up and 75% of it shoots out, the remaining 25% tastes
like 
yeast).  I followed the directions very closely except for one step.  I used a
combination of cane and corn sugar (90% , 10% respectively) since I ran out
of white cane sugar.  My question is: WAS THAT MY MISTAKE? Or could it 
be something else.  I figured making rootbeer should be pretty simple..

  

- ---------
#include std_dsclmr.h
- ---------




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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 15:45:31 -0500
From: gjfix at utamat.uta.edu (George J Fix)
Subject: Lautering

Darryl in HBD#1506 cites the rule of

           1 gallon/(6minute*sq. foot) = .167 gal/(min*sq. ft.)

as a good rule for decoction mashing. I personally feel that it is a
good rule for any type of system. As noted in my earlier post as soon
as the first wort is collected I adjust the inflow and outflow rates
to 1/3 gal/min. My false bottom has a diameter of D= 18/12 = 1.5 ft., 
and hence a surface area of

           A = pi*(D**2)/4 = 1.77 sq. ft.

This amounts to

          1/(3*1.77) = .188 gal./(min*sq.ft.).

This is slightly higher than the Narziss value cited by Darryl, but my
figure applies only to the period where sparging is being done, and does
not include the the first wort nor the short period when the last of the 
residual wort is run into the kettle. In any case a sparging period of
3*9.5 = 28.5 mins. to process 9.5 gals of sparge water is what I use as
a target. How all this shakes out for copper coils or for that fact the
EM is anyones guess. Very likely different considerations are needed.


George Fix




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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 16:44:45 -0400
From: djt2 at po.cwru.edu
Subject: Re: Gott Cooler Spigot

Mark asks:

Now that I've gott my gott cooler, what are you guys using to convert
that pushbutton spigot to a controllable valve.  I tried a plastic
one like on my fermenter, but it leaks.  Is there one that doesn't
require any drilling of the cooler, etc?  Thanks for the clues.
<end>

On mine, I screwed out the valve altogether, and installed a bulkhead union
(5/16", polypropylene, part number 61058 $1.03 from US Plastics
 -1-800537-9724) The inside of the bulkhead is connected to a coil of
slotted copper (or your favorite manifold system) and the outside to a
vinyl tube with a pinch clamp. Works great, no leaks. The cooler can be
reassembled for water if you wish.


By the way, US plastics has a minimum order of $10; you might want some
vinyl tubing (1/4 $15.75/ 100 ft or 5/16 $17.93/100 ft.) Their catalog is
full of all sorts of connectors, etc.

Another note, This weekend I was eyeing my old mash tun, ZAPAP style, made
from a 5 gallon bucket. I spent 2 hours drilling holes in this thing a
couple of years ago, and used it twice before converting to the Gott
cooler. Since others have proclaimed the benefits of false (or Phalse)
bottoms, I salvaged the hol-ey bottom of the old mashtun by cutting it out
just inside the raised bottom of the bucket. The cut out holey circle fits
perfectly inside my 5 gallon cooler, and makes a nice false bottom atop my
old copper manifold. I tied a nylon string to one edge to enable me to get
it out.

Sparge rates were significantly faster (I had to slow it down) by lowering
the tun, and extraction was about the same as with the slotted copper coil
manifold I usually use. Clean up was much improved. I'll use it from now
on.

dennis



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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 16:07:27 -0600 (CST)
From: DARREN TYSON <TYSONDR at SLUVCA.SLU.EDU>
Subject: Aluminum and a can o' worms

Greetings fellow homebrewers,

O.K., O.K.!  It seems I opened up a can o' worms with my post 
regarding the use of aluminum pots to boil wort.  And since I did I 
thought I better do a little investigating myself.

Re: Aluminum and Alzheimer's

There have been many papers published in reputable journals that 
present data that implicates aluminum as a causative factor in 
Alzheimer's.  There are several papers that hypothesize that aluminum 
accumulation in the brain is CAUSED BY Alzheimer's, but as of now, 
more papers are favoring a causative effect of aluminum.  However, the 
link between dietary intake and long-term accumulation of aluminum and 
Alzheimer's disease has not been studied in depth.  One paper that I 
found interesting was Reviews on Environmental Health 9(4):191-205, 
1991 Oct-Dec.  From the abstract: 
   
   "The main conclusion of this summary is aluminum is absorbed and 
   may accumulate in different organs in both adults and infants...  
   It seems probable that at least upon short term exposure the 
   healthy human body can defend itself adequately from aluminum's 
   toxic effects.  However, not enough information is available on 
   possible effects of life-long exposure to aluminum in the 
   environment..."

This article has 145 references and seems quite well researched.  Upon 
reading this I've decided to return my aluminum pot and pick up an 
enamel-coated stainless steel pot.  The way I figure it, I'd rather 
have the peace of mind.  (BTW, I saw a 5-gallon pot at a Revere/
Corning outlet store in Gurnee, IL for $20!)


Re: Aluminum in your beer

Obviously this topic is as hotly debated as the correlation between 
aluminum and Alzheimer's!  Some people say they can taste aluminum in 
there beer, other say they can't taste a thing.  As for me, I don't 
intend to find out if I actually CAN taste the aluminum.  Since I 
haven't used my new aluminum pot yet I see no problem with returning 
it and getting an enamel-coated stainless steel pot if for nothing 
else than peace of mind.

May all your beer be homebrewed,

Darren                     tysondr at sluvca.slu.edu

P.S.-if anyone is interested in a short reference list (10 articles)
of aluminum and Alzheimer's just e-mail me.


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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 14:14:44 PDT
From: Lee Bollard <bollard at spk.hp.com>
Subject: DeWolf & Cosyns or Klages?


As an aspiring all-grain brewer I'm wondering which malt to buy.

I've heard of two brands and would like to know the differences and
similarities:  

1. DeWolf & Cosyns
2. Klages

TIA & Regards,

Lee Bollard
bollard at spk.hp.com


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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 17:51:10 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: check number                                                     

- ----------------------- Mail item text follows ---------------

To: INTERNET--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: check number


Bob Paolino
Transplanted in Badgerspace

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Date: Tue, 23 Aug 1994 08:34:37 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au>
Subject: Results of Steam: Ale or Lager?

Dear Friends, I am very grateful to all those who took the time to respond to
my request for opinions on how to classify the Steam/California Common style
for the purposes of our brew club's competitions.  As of this writing I have
had 29 responses.  Of these, 16 (55%) said that the style should be classified
as a lager; 8 (28%) said ale; and 5 (17%) said it should be classified as both
or neither.  

The reasons cited most by the lager-louts were: the use of a bottom-fermenting
yeast (given by 9 of the 16 lager-louts); that it has more of the taste
qualities of lager than ale (4 of the 16); that it was intended as a lager by
the original brewers (2 of the 16); and that its color, gravity, hops etc most
closely match lager style guidelines (2 of the 16). (The numbers don't sum
because several respondents gave more than one reason.)  Memorable quotation
from the lager-louts comes from Norm Pyle, who wrote "...The type of yeast...
doesn't always define the flavor of the beer, but it defines the type of
beer...steam beer...tastes like an ale, is made like an ale, but it is a
lager."  (And no, I don't *always* quote Norm, despite the new line in my
 .sig!)

Without exception, the ale-advocates cited temperature as the reason for
classifying the style as an ale--first, that fermentation temps are at ale
levels, and second, that storage temps are *not* at lagering temps.  Several
ale-advocates gently reminded me of the definition of the term "lager" as cold
storage.  Two of them also reasoned that because the spring lager competition
follows the season when temps are cool (below that at which Steam/Common is
typically fermented), it made more sense to include it in the autumn ale
competition, when most brewers' temps would be in the usual Steam/Common
range.  Memorable quote from the ale-advocates comes from fellow petrologist
John Wolff, who wrote "Steam beer has a formulation closer to an ale than a
pilsner (most people's idea of typical "lager"), and the man in the street
would probably think of Anchor Steam as an ale...Why not simply have more
competitions, hence more incentive to brew and drink beer?"  Now that is
someone after my own heart!

Finally, the hybrid-heads.  These folks argued that because Steam/Common has
so much in common with both ales and lagers, it defeats the purpose of making
it to force it into one category or the other.  Thus Steam/Common (and several
mentioned Altbiers in this context too) should be judged as Steam/Common--that
is, either leave it out of the competition entirely or create a category for
it.  One hybrid-head suggested having it in both the ale and lager
competitions to see whether it was judged differently depending on its
"surroundings".  Memorable quote here comes from Charlie Papazian (whom I
emailed directly for his opinion, since he may not have seen the digest), who
wrote "I always categorize it as a "hybrid", neither an ale or lager style...I
think trying to force "steam" beer into a lager or ale category would be
misleading to the type of beer it actually is.  Good luck."

I admit that my own belief puts me in this camp, because I personally think
that we rob the style of its charm somewhat by pigeonholing; but my goal was
to gather info that could be used by the brew club.  We don't live in an ideal
world, so if forced to place it in either an ale or lager category I would
tend to agree with the lager-louts, that the type of yeast determines the type
of beer (at least for competition purposes on the scale that we here in Sydney
have at our disposal).  If you missed the first call for votes and want to add
your two cents, please do--there is still some time before the decision will
be made and I can always use more information.

Final note added at press time: I badgered Charlie P. to say what he would
do if someone backed him up against the wall and put a gun to his head and
said it has to go in one category or the other--which???  His reply was
that if he was in deep [CENSORED], down to his last cigar, he would say
ALE, but only when his cigar had just a few puffs left.  He does not want
this to be taken as a blanket recommendation--"hope my comments don't stir
up a hornets nest" says he.  His reasoning was that it is the fermentation
temperature, rather than yeast type, that is definitive.  He commented
that he would put Alts in the lager category (because of cold
conditioning) for similar reasons, but again ONLY if threatened with
bodily harm.

Thanks again to all who participated!  Cheers, Dave in Sydney

- --
"Life's a bitch, but at least there's homebrew" ---Norm Pyle
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109
Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper at mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428
             ....I'm not from here, I just live here....


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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 18:52:30 EDT
From: Nancy.Renner at um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Water hardness defined

 From *Jeff* Renner 
 
Back from vacation, and catching up on old HBDs, I see that confusion over 
just what is hard water has raised its head again. 
 
In HBD 1502, Al Korzonas says: 
 
>Permanent hardness is primarily 
>due to Ca and Mg in the water, whereas temporary hardness is due to 
>Carbonates in the water.  Boiling high-carbonate water (assuming there 
>is sufficient Ca in the water) will cause some Calcium Carbonate to 
>precipitate out, thereby reducing the overall hardness of the water. 
>I'm sure this is what Scott meant. 
 
Having worked for Proctor and Gamble as a summer technician back in the mid 
60's when I thought I was going to be a chemical engineer (BC, before 
calculus), I found out lots about water hardness.  Since then, I've taught 
history and biology, (and English and conservation and even shop -  too many 
degrees and majors and minors), so, at the risk of being pedantic, here 
comes the school lesson.  I hope it's useful.  Just be glad you aren't my 
kids; they have to listen to this all the time! 8o) 
 
WATER HARDNESS IS A TERM TO DESCRIBE THE PRESENCE OF CALCIUM AND MAGNESIUM 
IONS IN WATER. 
 
That's it.  Not sulfate, or carbonate, or bicarbonate.  Just Ca and Mg.  The 
term "hard water" grew out of the observation that some water (hard) needs 
more soap to make lather, and that hard water made a scum, or curd, like on 
hair, laundry, or at the top of the water in the tub (bathtub ring).  These 
observations are almost a thing of the past with softened water, detergents 
and showers.  Many municipalities at least partly soften water (i.e., remove 
Ca and Mg ions), and water softeners are common in areas of hard well water. 
 
Soap is usually a sodium salt (can be potassium salt) of a fatty acid.  The 
fatty portion disolves fatty soil ("like dissolves like" is a chemistry 
rule) and the sodium end makes it water soluble and lowers surface tension 
to help suspend soil so it can be rinsed away.  This is why soap is called a 
surfactant (surface active agent).  The Ca and Mg ions in hard water "kick 
out" and replace the sodium ion from the soap molecule, making calcium or 
magnesium soap.  These soaps are hardly soluble in water at all, so they 
can't lather or clean, and they are the curd or bathtub ring.  If enough 
soap is used, all the Ca and Mg ions in the water are "used up," and the 
soap can do its thing - lather and dissolve and suspend soil.  Synthetic 
detergents are unaffected by hard water, and are much preferred, especially 
for laundry and shampoo.  Women used to rinse their hair in rain water to 
make it "soft and manageable."  There is at least one synthetic bar "soap" 
available, Zest, the brand I worked on all those many years ago. 
 
An old test for degrees of hardness (grains) involved adding drops of a soap 
solution of specific concentration to a jar with a specific amount of water 
to be tested.  The jar was shaken and soap added until suds began to form.  
Each drop added represented one grain of hardness.  It's a pretty accurate 
test. 
 
Why do brewers care about whether water cleans well with soap?  Because the 
Ca ion is necessary for the proper mash acidity, and so we have appropriated 
the language of soap users and water chemists. 
 
It has been described here fairly recently how boiling temporarily hard 
water changes the soluble bicarbonate ions into carbonate, which 
precipitates out with Ca or Mg.  That's why it's temporarily hard.  
Permanent hardness describes the presence of Ca and Mg ions without the 
presence of bicarbonate ions.  Boiling does nothing to it.  Other cations 
(negatively charged) are present, such as sulfates, which we like for their 
effect on the bitterness of ales. 
 
BTW, I am also an amateur soap maker, for the same reasons I brew my own 
beer. (No, not the taste, silly!)  I like making things I use. 
 
Jeff Renner just outside Ann Arbor, Michigan, where our well water is 
temporarily hard.

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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 20:08:33 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: Big .sigs and personalities, also Great Taste                    

- ----------------------- Mail item text follows ---------------

To: INTERNET--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: Big .sigs and personalities, also Great Taste


Brewing chemist and software god Mitch Gelly defends signature lines as
an expression of net personality and suggests that we not worry unless
they're _obscenely_ large.  Fair enough.  So it ought to be fair enough
to ask what Zack Norman, Sammy, and Chief Zabu reveal about Mitch's
personality :-)

Bob Paolino
Vice President Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild, BJCP judge, brewer,
taster, all-around beer guy seeking increasing knowledge of the craft, and
without any clue about Chief Zabu or why I should include it in an
elabourate .sig line even if I wanted to.......

P.S.  The Eight Annual Great Taste of the Midwest was another big
success (in video version of post, self pats self on back?) according to its
many satisfied patrons and happy brewers--despite intermittent heavy sprinkles.
On a couple occasions, the very light rain caused some to retreat to the tents,
while others weren't bothered at all. This all happened despite a history of
perfect summer weather for the third Saturday in August.  Some brewers,
however, commented that they actually preferred the somewhat cooler, mostly
cloudy weather because it was more comfortable than the aesthetically pleasing
sun and blue skies we usually have for the fest.

Many thanks to Mitch, Melanie, Steve, Bob (all of them), John, Daphne, Deb,
Art, the Wonder couple, Bryan, "Re-Pete," and-on-and-on-and-on.
Also the WORT volunteers (Madison unfermented radio?), the police officer, the
patrons, the brewers, the yeast, the malt, the hops....

33 breweries, 100-plus beers, and many happy (and hoppy) patrons can't be
wrong!  Look for us next year, August 19, 1995, at Olin _Turville_ Park
for the Ninth Annual Great Taste!!!

CHEERS

Bob Paolino
Transplanted in Badgerspace

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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 16:40:00 -0700
From: john.dodson at cantina.com (John Dodson)
Subject: "Automatic" Sparge Ring


Several months ago, someone was describing an automatic sparge ring...
a ring of tubing, with holes drilled in the botton, equipped with a
float in the middle which would automatically regulate the flow of
sparge water to a grain bed.

I keep thinking about this device... so it must mean I've got to have
one. ;^)  Are they available commercially?  Does anyone have a detailed
desciption on how to build one?  Is a plan available?  TIA

 ... john.dodson at cantina.com
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 94 22:13:15 EDT
From: Swshea at aol.com
Subject: Brewing Classes

Has anyone taken one of the Homebrew Weekend Series classes by the American
Brewer's Guild? What kind of reputation do Michael Lewis and Ashton Lewis
have among the brewerazzi? Is the $200.00 fee for two days of classes money
well spent, or something I should put towards my next brewing gizmo? Private
E-Mail is OK - I'll post a summary to the digest if anything of general
interest comes of this...

Bill Shea
swshea at aol.com


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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 22:45:13 +0059 (EDT)
From: Michael Ligas <ligas at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Subject: 1994 All About Ales Competition

The Canadian Amateur Brewers Association (CABA) is proud to announce the
Fifth Annual All About Ales Competition. The following is a guideline to
for entries. If you wish to receive extended class descriptions,
entry/recipe forms or further information about CABA, please contact me,
Michael Ligas, at: ligas at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca

Take care and happy brewing.

				- ML -


FIFTH ANNUAL ALL ABOUT ALES COMPETITION RULES

A. What To Enter

1. Only homebrewed beer can be entered.

2. Homebrewed beer includes beer crafted by the entrant at an 'on- 
   premise' commercial establishment. By crafted, it is intended  
   that the entrant played a major role in formulating the recipe 
   used to make the entry, as well as participating in the brewing 
   of the beer.

3. Beer must be classified as one of the classes listed below (see 
   section G).

4. Beer must be bottled in brown or green 284-355 ml glass beer   
   bottles or PET bottles, which are clean and free from any      
   identifying marks. If printed crown caps are used, the print   
   must be blacked out with an indelible marker. Wire swing-top   
   bottles, clear glass bottles, bottles with raised-glass        
   lettering or bottles containing any other kind of brand name or 
   distinguishing markings will be disqualified.

B. How To Enter

1. Select and enter as many beer classes as you wish.

2. Only one entry per entrant is permitted in each class (for     
   classes divided into subclasses, only one subclass can be      
   entered).

3. Three bottles must be submitted for each class entered.

4. For each class entered, complete an entry/recipe form and two  
   bottle forms. Attach the completed entry/recipe form to the    
   first bottle and the bottle forms to the other two bottles.    
   ENTRY AND BOTTLE FORMS MUST BE ATTACHED TO BOTTLES WITH A RUBBER 
   BAND (no glue, tape or adhesives). Entries received without an 
   accompanying recipe will not be accepted.

5. Entry fees are $6 per entry (members) or $9 per entry (non-    
   members). For members, the fifth and additional entries are $5 
   each. Submit total payment with your entries. Make cheques/money 
   orders payable to: The Canadian Amateur Brewers Assoc.

C. Entry Deadline

   Entries must be received before 4:00pm, Saturday, October 22,  
   1994. Late entries will not be judged. No exceptions will be   
   made.

D. Where To Send Entries

   SELECT BREWING has generously offered to serve as the entry    
   dropoff location. Take or send your entries to:

   SELECT BREWING
   85 Mowat Avenue
   Toronto, Ontario
   M6K 3E3
   (416) 531-2013

   If you are sending your entries, you may use either Bus Parcel 
   Express (BPX) or United Parcel Service (UPS). Check the white  
   pages of your telephone directory.

   If you are asked the contents of the package, answer "Bottles, 
   but they are double-boxed and well padded".

   Please pack your entries well. Broken entries cannot be judged! 
   Line the inside of the carton with a plastic garbage bag.      
   Partition and pack each bottle with adequate material, top,    
   sides and bottom.

   Include entry fees and entry/recipe/bottle forms with entries.

E. Judging

   First, second and BOS rounds of judging will be done by        
   recognized beer judges between October 29th and November 12th, 
   1994. The decisions of the judges will be final. All entrants  
   will receive the judging sheets used to evaluate their entries.

F. Awards

   Awards for first, second and third in each beer class, and Best 
   of Show, will be presented on November 19, 1994, at the Awards 
   Dinner following the Annual General Meeting.

G. Beer Classes - Fifth Annual All About Ales Competition

Class 1: CANADIAN ALE
Class 2: WHEAT BEER
      2a: Berliner Weisse
      2b: Weizenbier
      2c: Dunkelweizen
      2d: Belgian Witbier
Class 3: BRITISH ALE
      3a: Pale Ale
      3b: India Pale Ale (IPA)
Class 4: ENGLISH BITTER
Class 5: BROWN ALE
      5a: English Brown
      5b: English Mild
Class 6: PORTER
Class 7: STOUT
      7a: Dry Stout
      7b: Sweet Stout
Class 8: EXTRA STRENGTH
      8a: Barley Wine
      8b: Imperial Stout
      8c: Weizenbock
      8d: Scotch Ale
      8e: Belgian Strong Ale
Class 9: BELGIAN SPECIALTY ALES
      9a: Trappist
      9b: Lambic
      9c: Flanders Brown Ale
      9d: Saison


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Date: Tue, 23 Aug 94 07:01:36 EDT
From: DATADUMP at aol.com
Subject: Weird beer . . .

Hello fellow Brewers:

A fellow club member (Central Florida Homebrewers) recently uploaded the
following onto my BBS here in Orlando.  He had told me about it at the last
meeting and I have been awaiting the results.  Here is his post:

"Ok, remember you asked for it!  In late July I was at a Flea Market and
picked up a complete Home Brew kit for $15 and in it was a 3 1/2 lb. syrup
can.  On 8-1-94 I bought 10 lbs. of plums that were bruised, for $2 and went
to work.  So, with one bulging [can of] Munton & Fison Hopped Ale of 3 1/2
lbs., 3 cups of sugar and 1/2 ounce of Hallertauer the mystery beer began.
 Slow rolling boil of 45 minutes, looking something like black mud.  While it
was cooking I placed 10 lbs. of plums to a bucket carefully hand crushing
each one.  After getting the sticky mess off the hands it was time to dump
wort over the plums to sterilize them.  Ten minutes seemed like a good amount
of time before adding ice cold water.  Feeling froggy I added an Apple spice
beer that foams out of the bottle, and just to make it real crazy the dry
yeast from 1987 was stirred in.  With a starting gravity around 1.030 it 
perked for about 5 days then transferred to carboy 3 more days to settle.
 Taste?  Well, ten days later it was test time.  Dark, good nose, good
carbonation, good head retention.  Flavor you ask?  Mild dark ale with a plum
or prune juice flavor standing right there.  I kind of like prune juice and
plums so it tastes fine to me.  No bitterness or after taste, just a prune
juice beer.  I will bring some to the September meeting, so if you are up for
it get 
ready . . .  "  

The forgoing was posted by Gail Kindstrom on THE-BREW BBS.

I'll let you know of my impression.  (Am definitely not a prune or plum type
person).

Now, for a problem(?) I have, or think I have.  In the Digest there has been
much posted about infected beers.  I am a new brewer ( < one year) and have
only 8-10 batches under my belt (not literally!).  I recently did another
batch of my favorite brew, Mocha Java Stout, from the CM II and I have a
::::groan:::: white ring around the neck of the bottle.  Infection?  Well,
once refrigerated the ring disappears and the beer tastes fine.  My beer guru
(supplier) says he has experienced this also and has yet to find an
explanation.

So, dear HBD'ers, any ideas?

Gordon Cain

e-mail datadump at aol.com



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Date: Tue, 23 Aug 94 7:32:39 EDT
From: terfintt at ttown.apci.com (Terry Terfinko)
Subject: Trouble shooting dry flavor

     Over the past several months, since the start of Spring, I have noticed
that my beers are fermenting out very dry.  The malt sweetness that was once
evident has been fading out.  Taking the advice of the HBD, I have changed
yeast strains, varied between Wyeast London, British and German Ale.  Mashed
at a higher temperature 152-154, avoided over sparging and HSA.  I first 
noticed this dryness in my all grain beers, but recently have detected it 
in some extract brews.  New theory..... Living in PA we have an exceptionally
high mold count this year.  I have not suspected an infection since there are
no real signs like off flavors, fruity aromas or visual signs.  Could 
mold be causing this dryness?  Has anyone experienced problems this summer?
If I viewed the fermented beer under a microscope, would I be 
able to detect the presence of mold?

Happy Brewing

Terry Terfinko - terfintt at ttown.apci.com

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Date: Tue, 23 Aug 94 07:57:12 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: States Where HomeBrewing Illegal

Well, for a historical perspective on this topic, I was reviewing _zymurgy_ 
vol 11, number 2 (Summer 1988).  [has Randy Mosher's article on roasting 
grains yourself].  The editorial is titled "Your Right to Brew" and mentions 
that the following states still make it illegal:
  "New Jersey, Georgia, Utah, Alaska, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Alabama, Missouri, 
West Virginia, South Dakota, Delaware and Michigan"

So, although Papazian isn't well known for total accuracy, at least some 
people thought that as recently as 1988 it was illegal to homebrew in West 
Virginia.

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo at mitre.org


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Date: Tue, 23 Aug 94 07:54:36 EST
From: Thomas Redmond <c23tvr at kocrsv01.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Russian Light Beer venture

I saw this in alt.online-service.  anyone else?

>From kocrsv01!rcsuna.gmr.com!ilium!nigel.msen.com!sdd.hp.
>com!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!news.eunet.
>fi!news.spb.su!kaija!not-for-mail Fri Aug 19 12:42:15 1994
>Article: 1208 of alt.online-service
>Path: kocrsv01!rcsuna.gmr.com!ilium!nigel.msen.com!sdd.hp.
>com!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!news.eunet.
>fi!news.spb.su!kaija!not-for-mail
>From: "Alexey N. Podsevalov" <pan at slanec.spb.su>
>Newsgroups: alt.business.multi-level,alt.online-service,rec.crafts.brewing
>Subject: Young russian firm looks for mini-brewery.It's may be a joint venture.
>Date: 16 Aug 1994 18:32:23 +0400
>Organization: LENINGRADSLANEC (Slancy)
>Lines: 9
>Sender: news at owl.kaija.spb.su
>Distribution: su
>Message-ID: <AAyLCKkWM2 at slanec.spb.su>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: owl.kaija.spb.su
>X-Return-Path: slanec!slanec.spb.su!pan at kaija.spb.su

>Young russian private firm looks for partners in America or
>Europe to making beer in Russia ( near Sankt-Petersburg and
>near Estonian border ) .  We  need a mini-brewery with good
>technology to making and bottling light beer  ( 5000 litres
>in day ) in plastic bottles ( 1 - 2 liters ).
>There is a good time to start make business in Russia.
>It's may be a joint venture with 100% , 75% , 50% ....
>Please , send message by E-mail .
>Manager Vitali S. Morozoff. Tel/Fax 81274-25964 in Russia.



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1510, 08/25/94