HOMEBREW Digest #1512 Sat 27 August 1994

Digest #1511 Digest #1513

		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

  Low cost oxyegen barrier hop storage ("Lee A. Menegoni")
  Wyeast London Ale (MELOTH MICHAEL S)
  Colleted Brewing Belgian files now available ("Phillip Seitz")
  Kegging question/ not in faq (Victor Franklin)
  Flaming Bacteria (COYOTE)
  Thick Decocts/ PoleStrings/ Plum & Rasberry (COYOTE)
  Learning tastes in beer (Jeremy Ballard Bergsman)
  Bug in air lock (GARBETT)
  Source for phosphoric acid (BTEditor)
  Mash/Lauter Tun and Grain Bags ("Craig Amundsen")
  Gott coolers (again) ("Charles S. Jackson")
  please add to list (CORRADINO_DEBRA/Non-HP-Exeter_om2)
  Follow up to Fuller's ESB Cloning (Larry Bristol)
  Demijohns/Belgian&BURP/Zymurgy&Mills/MaltMill/Moving2VA ("William F. Cook")
  Las Vegas (Victor Franklin)
   ("Steven D. Lefebvre")
  Woodchuck & Strongbow Ciders ("Joan Donohue" )
  Hop cones per ounce (Mike Sadul)
  Tin cookware (Jeff Benjamin)
  Dishwashing sanitizing (Philip Gravel)

****************************************************************** ** NOTE: There will be no digest administration from August 15 ** through August 26. PLEASE be patient when requesting changes ** or cancellations. ****************************************************************** Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Articles are published in the order they are received.) Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc., to homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L at UA1VM.UA.EDU), then you MUST unsubscribe the same way! If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first. FAQs, archives and other files are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu. (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from listserv at sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a message to that address to receive listserver instructions.) Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored. For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen at novell.physics.umr.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Aug 94 11:22:31 EDT From: "Lee A. Menegoni" <lmenegoni at nectech.com> Subject: Low cost oxyegen barrier hop storage I reuse glass jars with metal screw on lids to store my hops, I purge them with CO2 prior to closure and store them in the freezer. Cost = $0. For the really anal you can nest jars, this is more practical with pellets. Baby food jars and 10oz juice bottles nest well in mayo or tomato sauce jars. Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 09:41:54 -0600 (MDT) From: MELOTH MICHAEL S <meloth at spot.Colorado.EDU> Subject: Wyeast London Ale I have used Wyeast's London Ale liquid yeast two or three times over the past few months and found (1) it contributes to a wonderful ale and (2) it can take forever to ferment out. As for the latter, I began a batch in mid-May in order to give me plenty of time before I left for Thailand (I planned to let it age while I was gone, thereby ensuring that I'd actually drink a whole batch _after_ it had aged properly rather than the usual "half-batch" resulting from continual "quality taste checks" every few days). It took nearly 18 hours for the yeast starter to bubble enough for pitching and well over 30 hours for the primentary fermentation to really get going (temp = 65-68F). After about 10 days the fermentation was down to nearly once per minute. However, I stumbled against the carboy and kicked up some sediment, which had the efect (apparently) of uncovering some yeast cells and beginning a more frequent (every 30 seconds or so) secondary fermentation. As my other carboys were occupied, I left the wort to ferment in a single carboy until the airlock burped once every 4+ minutes. It did not get to that stage until early in July, more than six weeks after pitching (I had to call a friend to bottle it while I was gone). Other London Ales have also taken quite a while to ferment out, making me believe that it's just a slow-going strain. Regardless, or perhaps because of the time, this was one of the best tasting beers I've ever tasted. My brother, who travels all over the UK and Europe, is a beer freak and when he visited me, he went through each and every remaining bottle. Like an idiot, however, I did not write down any of the specifics and must try to reconstruct the reciepe. When I do, I'll pass it along. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Michael S. Meloth Phone: 303-492-5204 University of Colorado FAX: 303-492-7090 Campus Box 249 Internet: meloth at spot.colorado.edu Boulder, CO 80309 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 94 11:58:19 -0400 From: "Phillip Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com> Subject: Colleted Brewing Belgian files now available Many people have asked for the complete set of Belgian brewing posts. These are now available from the Lambic Digest archives. To get information on the archives, send an EMPTY message with the word "Help" in the subject line to: NETLIB at LONGS.LANCE.COLOSTATE.EDU For that matter, you might also want to join Lambic Digest. Send a subscription request to: LAMBIC-REQUEST at LONGS.LANCE.COLOSTATE.EDU Lambic Digest is devoted to the discussion of all Belgian beer styles, lambics among them Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 09:21:32 -0700 From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com> Subject: Yakimania '94, the story concludes The debauchery At the end of a busy touring day, the masses gathered back at Hop Union only to find that the kegs had been moved, and it was time to go find them. Maps were distributed, and the great convoy was on, about 20 minutes out of town to the site of Eric's house. His non-fenced back yard (kid jail) was an orchard of apples (mostly golden and red delicious (I owe ya Don...) and a few winesap) as well as pears, which harvest was just finishing up as I arrived. The early birds got the good sites (close to the party, but away from the porta potties), set up tents, and proceeded to party. And what a party it was! Somebody had stopped by Levenworth on the way down, and collected 2 kegs of the best stuff. Whistling Pig wheat was very popular, but it was a heavily hopped brown ale type that got finished off first. Named Dante's Inferno, it was dedicated to the many firefighters from around the country which helped control the raging forest fire that threatened the Bavarian rip-off tourist town for most of the summer. There were maybe 15 kegs of various sizes that were tasted and perhaps finished that night, as well as many fine examples of bottled potions. After all, in a party of your peers, with representatives of brew clubs from two countries, would you bring your bad stuff? I crashed about 1 am. I got up at 7:30 (officially. We won't talk about that one unofficial foray at mid-morning...) Interestingly enough, while there was plenty of beer and barbecue food the night before, nobody had planned for breakfast. Besides, it was a long drive home for me, so I left about 9:30. Peter, of the R.C.M.P. did open his van up wide, and gave the whole camp a rousing tape of bag pipe music. Kinda gets the blood flowing... The drive back took us through fruit stand country. I embarrassed myself by getting a box of peaches (softball sized, 26 lbs, 7.50$), a gallon of mint flower honey, dried apricots, dried cranberries (craisins, get it?), some cherry juice, and other stuff that I'll probably ruin by attempting to ferment them. Oh yeah, I picked up a bag of ground pears from the orchard (thanks Eric! I owe ya!). Many thanks to the members of Y.E.A.S.T. for putting this not so little shindig together. It was a lot of work, but from the standpoint of the people that the party was thrown together for, it was a blast. I may not be on all the tours next year, but I do plan on being there for the party. Much fun, many friends, and a good time was had by all. Or by most. A footnote to this saga. Last year, the Yakimania party was held the night before the judging of beer for entries in the Puyallup fair, said fair serving for most of Western Washington. A certain judge at that event had to leave Yakima to get to Puyallup (180 miles away on the other side of the mountains) by 10:00 the next morning in order to get to the judging on time. Last year, this person hopped on his motorcycle and had a nice, leisurely ride across the mountains, arriving in plenty of time to judge for the fair. This year, this person, who for obvious reasons will remain nameless, but can be referred to by Mr. X., was entertaining revelers at the Yakimania party with this tale of modern hardship and joy. In fact, said judge was expected for judging duties in the Tri-Cities (only 80 miles away from the festivities) the very next day. Mr. X. got very hammered that night. He got up at 5:00 and decided that since he was already up, he might as well make the trip to the judging. Unfortunately, he headed for the wrong judging. It wasn't until 3.5 hours and many miles later, when Mr. X was on the outskirts of Puyallup, that he realized that he was in fact in the wrong part of the world. And still in no condition to do any sort of beer judging. He will be reminded of this sorry episode many times in the years to come. Hope that you enjoyed this... humbly submitten, Rich Webb Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 09:47:31 -0700 (PDT) From: uswnvg!vfrankl at uunet.uu.net (Victor Franklin) Subject: Kegging question/ not in faq Hi all! I have recently taken the plunge into kegging and I LOVE IT!! however, I do have a question that I havn't been able to find the answer to in the kegging faq. question(s): Is there a difference in the end flavor of the beer if I force carbonate vs. "natural" with dme or corn sugar? How exactly would one force carbonate the beer? psi? How much time would it take? I have read that shaking the keg to get the co2 to disolve into solution is bad and will flavor the beer. is this true? Thank-you for your help! Mr. Impatient Victor Franklin vfrankl at uswnvg.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 11:05:28 -0600 (MDT) From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu> Subject: Flaming Bacteria Al asked >I've read this before and don't believe that working near a lit bunsen burner can keep bacteria away from your plates. Can someone explain to me why it would? The way I see it is the heat rising from the burner will cause upward air currents in the general vicinity of the work. The rising air must be replaced -- from where? From the other parts of the room. I think that the air currents will draw air (and possibly settled dust/bacteria) INTO the work area from below and from the sides, no? Since the flow is not necessarily going to be laminar (it will swirl) wouldn't it just be better to work in a small, draft-free room? * Ok, we have a little misunderstanding of the function of the burner here. A bunsen burner is in no way supposed to be an alternative to a laminar flow. It does not "sterilize" the air in any way/who/ or how. The function of a flame in "asceptic technique" it to heat objects, e.g. inoculating loops, lips of flasks...etc. And to create "Positive airflow" out of vessels- e.g., test tubes, flasks...etc. Such that air IN the tube is heated, and thusly moves out of the tube, henceforth airborn contaminants,be they bacteria, mold, yeast, etc. are not able to enter the vessels, whereby contamination is avoided. (do you like me "legal/scientific" jargon? I'm writing my thesis you know! :) Additionally, when pouring plates you should tilt the flask containing molten sterilized agar and flame the lip of the vessel gently (don't make it glow red like a loop, just heat the surface slightly, and down the side a bit) When a plate is poured the agar flows out from the sterile lip surface and drops into a plate. Don't touch the lip to the plate. You can then keep the flask sideways so the drop on the lip stays there, and does not flow down the outside collecting contaminants. Reflame the lip, and pour the next plate. Thing is- DON'T stand the flask upright between plates, flame the lip each time to keep it sterile, and keep air moving OUT of the flask. I stack my plates about 5 high, and pour from the bottom up. With a bit of practice, and a small amount of dexterity, you can manipulate the stack pretty effectively. As for the plate itself- keep the flame away (if it's plastic!) Us the lid of the plate as a shield from airborns, and your own brew-steched breath! It is the cheapest version of a sterile box you'll find! Test Tubes: Upon removing a cap, flame the upper part of the tube slightly, NOT to heat the glass, but to move air out of the tube. Perform transfer, or inoculation. Before putting cap back on tube, heat the end again. Then cap. The best arrangement is to hold (right handers) the inoculation loop as a pencil int he right hand, use the pinky of that hand to grasp cap- remove. Hold tube in left hand. Pass through flame at appropriate time. If you hold the cap, and DO NOT put it down on a surface, you should be able to replace it on the tube w/o flaming the cap. * Just a mini-primer from the booklet I might someday get around to putting together on yeast culturing. Think I should finish my thesis first! As for the small draft-free room, Oh Yeah! Take a moment to spray the air with lysol, leave the room for a minute, then enter, close doors,windowns, remove furry pets, and you're on your way. Spray down working surface with lysol or strong EtOH soln. THEN light burner, and do your transfers. (probably best to remove pets before spraying room!) \\//- I'll save my sig till later. John- \\//-- Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 11:15:02 -0600 (MDT) From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu> Subject: Thick Decocts/ PoleStrings/ Plum & Rasberry *** Chris Wallace asked 'bout decoctions: >All of my mashes have been pretty homogenous, or have had at most an inch of liquid on top of the grain...ie. there's no discernable 'thick' portion. I typically use 2.7 L mash water per kg of grain (as per Fix's "Principles of Brewing Science"). In any case, do you draw off this 'thickest' portion via a spigot at the bottom of the mash tun? (I use a picnic cooler as a mash tun, so that would be no problem.) Otherwise, if you were just scooping out the mash for your decoction, how would you get the thickestportion? What's the reasoning behind using a thick decoction? * Use my patented "Scoopula" (TM, copywrite 1994). It's a specialized aluminum-ized vessel designed SPECIFICALLY for decoction mashing. It requires no special electrical, or gas service, and is unmotorizable. Order catalog number 563COL. Acme Product 2468. Call 1-800- SUC-KKER Send $19.95 (and $50 shipping and handling) to Coyote Enterprises- a division of ACME products. Made in USA, under a Japanese label. It looks somewhat similar to a colander in both shape and color, in fact you might THINK it is indiscernable from a colander. Fact is (trade secret!) it IS a colander. And yes- it is commonly made from ALUMINUM. You might find ceramic on steel, or even, yes folks...stainless steel. The way to use it is you SCOOP (hence the name) a colander's full of grain and juice from you mash. Hold is up so most of the liquid drains out, then toss the grainy bits in a pot and heat gently. (you can add a tad more water to the grain before heating). The function: You want to break up starch clumps by boiling, but first you take the decoct through a mashing episode, i.e. Heat gently to converison temperature, hold at conversion, then heat to a boil. Return to main mash. The additional starch that is "opened" up, is now made available to the enzymes in the remaining mash. As has been stated: You do not want to just take liquid and boil it. The enzymes are soluble in the liquid. The starch you want to get at is still in the grains. * Sorry for the previous commercial interlude. Don't know what came over me! This is my understanding of the purpose, and performance of decoctions. Your understanding may vary, but that doesn't mean its right either! Besides, mine makes great sense! Plus it works for me - so BLAST YOU ALL! (sinister Coyote snicker heard from somewhere behind you. You turn and "think" you see a shadow slink off into a corner, but you're not sure! You are left with an eary feeling you are being watched, but cannot tell where it's coming from. This plagues you for the remainder of the day, until you return home, and crack into a homebrew, at which time relaxation and bliss of enjoying life return to you. Aaaaaaaaah yes. GLubGlubGlub) *** Hop poles- Sounds like someone has tried my- as yet Unpatended Pole-Pulley System. I don't recall the weight rating, but I've used 1/4 " sisal rope. I figure in a number of years it might give out, but then I can buy more! For several years it's worked fine. Don't know if I'll leave it in the pulleys over winter. The thing I like about it is not the splinters it can leave in your hands if you rub it lengthwise, but rather the fact that the hops enjoy its roughness, providing them a better gripping surface. You will note that hop vines have a directional "stickiness" of their own, allowing them to "grab" and "hold" to a surface. I would recommend a pulley over a simple hookeye or such. I don't plan on climbing to the top of my 20'-ers to redo me setup. (at least I hope never to!) And with all the wind we've had lately there has been plenty of opportunity for abbrasive action at the top of my ropes. Friction can cause problems. Just ask the makers of KY! So get a pulley that is AT LEAST big enough for your ropes, if not too big. *** Just harvested a bush/tree worth of plums (can't remember the kind- the Mrs. knows) and started mushing them up for mead. It's nice to have fruits in the garden that I can ferment. Maybe I'll mix in some wormy apples too, just for the fun of it! My plan, mush up fruit. Squeeze the juice from the pulp/stones with a mesh bag. Then add some pasteurized honey/water. Toss in some yeast. Let that puppy RoAR! Maybe some of those fresh-frozen rasberries too! Unless the end up in the second half of my porter. *** Also discovered an interesting approach to juicing rasberries. Picked up a flat of fresh ones, froze them in a zip-lock baggie. Took it out to thaw and placed it in a bowl. Juice flowed from the holes in the bag, so I collected it. Hmmmmmmmm suweeeet. Removed the berries from the bag and placed in the Scoopula (TM) described above (aka= Colander) and just let the juice flow out. I ended up with a half gallon of clear red juice. A bit of honey/water, yeast nutrient, and pitched. Off it went. Should be nummy! Just to be sure I juiced the remainder and ended up with pulpy goo. It's fermenting too (with some plums) but I think the clear juice will be the winner! Ah brewing. SO many possibilities! ///\\\ The cooky- Cosmic Coyote. SLK6P at cc.usu.edu ||||||------ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 10:19:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Ballard Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.Stanford.EDU> Subject: Learning tastes in beer ldent at crash.Colorado.EDU (Logan Dent) wants to learn more about tastes in beer. I got this off of the judge digest archives. It is part of a file called dr_beer and is a list of things you can add to beer to simulate certain beer tastes/defects. - ------------------------------------------------ We normally use a light relatively flavorless beer that was free of original defects. usually Carling Black Label. It is cheap, and of the 8 or so comparable cheap beers (why trash good stuff) it is the most defect free. The importance of a fresh beer to doctor can not be stressed enough. Remember to keep undoctored reference samples for side-by-side comparison during the session. Non-drinkable samples were made with non-food grade chemicals. If you have access to FDA approved additives, these if added in appropriate quantities (we make no guarantee of the toxicity of the above specified levels, you'll have to check this out and take responsibility on your own) are probably drinkable. You'll need one bottle of doctored beer for every few people (assume 2 to 3 oz per person). You'll need bottle caps to recap after adding substances. All substances should be added less than 24 hours before, except for skunky and oxidized which need advance prep as indicated. In addition to beers for doctoring you'll need 8 to 16 oz reference beer for each person. Prepare samples as noted. The order listed is the serving order we've been using I believe. The idea is to do the strongest nastiest one toward the end. Splitting this into 2 sessions is not a bad idea as the palette can get saturated and tired. The full range of samples takes 2-3 hours. Be sure to have some type of plain munchy like French or Italian bread and water (hopefully not skanky water) for palette cleansing. Basically you can proceed similar to competitions or other tasting events. It is a good idea to serve these blind. Let people try to guess what they are tasting then after a minute or two tell them. Many people will pick this up. Stress the fact that flavor perception is devoid of the additional cues like sight that allow perceptual recognition. The idea behind doing this is to train and refresh (strengthen) the cognitive association between sensing and being able to assign (correctly) a descriptor to that sensation. Feedback is encouraged. It will help us revise this program. Good Luck. - Jay Hersh, Steve Stroud hersh at expo.lcs.mit.edu STROUD%GAIA at leia.polaroid.com snail Mail: Jay Hersh aka Dr. Beer 15 Dunbar Ave. Medford, Ma. 02155 ************************************************************ Original Posted 10/90 reference beer = Carling Black Label size = 16 oz Flavor/Aroma Amount Drink? Comment - ------------ ------ ------ ------- 1) Alcohol 10ml pure ethanol Y could have used a little more, perhaps 12-15 ml/bottle 2) Clove 10ul eugenol N too strong, cut in half? 3) Winey 30ml Chablis wine Y Fine (make sure it is fresh) 4) Estery 2.8ul t-Amyl Acetate Y OK, maybe increase 50-75% (banana) was borderline this time previously used .028ml which was much too strong 5) Nutty 5 drops Almond Extract Y OK 6) Phenolic 4mg Phenol N Slightly weak, some people couldn't detect this. 7) Buttery 5 drops butter extract Y OK (diacetyl) 8) Sulfury 30 mg Potassium N Good Metabisulfite (K2S2O5) 9) Skunky Previously dark stored, Y Good fresh Molson in sun 3 days 10) DMS 0.08ul (made by diluting N OK 50uL pure DMS to 50ml w/ pure ethanol, then adding 80ul of this to each bottle) 11) Stale open bottles to air, recap, Y very light, needs more time heat to 100F for 10 days 12) Sour 10ml white wine vinegar Y Too sour, cut in half ul - micro Liter ml - milli Liter Substitutes : Cloves or allspice can be made into a liquid extract (don't add these spices directly to beer or it will cause it to gush heavily!) and added in place of Eugenol. 2g of allspice is recommended but I have no direct experience with this (it sounds like way too much). Banana extract if you can find it will be made from food grade Amyl Acetate (just as butter extract is basically food grade diacetyl, and Almond extract is Benzaldehyde). You can add this instead. Quantity unknown though 4-5 drops is my guess. Metabisulfite tablets (Camden tablets) from a homebrew supplier can be substituted for Potassium Metabisulfite. These are used by winemakers to kill yeast. Quantity unknown. Jeremy Bergsman jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 13:23:33 -0400 (EDT) From: GARBETT at UTKVX.UTCC.UTK.EDU Subject: Bug in air lock I have a little insect in my air-lock for the second time. The little bugger either had an egg on the side of the air-lock that survives soaking in B-Brite or it crawled in through the tiny airhole on top of the airlock. The thing is the insect is 10 times the diameter of the hole it crawled in through and the only thing it had to eat was minerals in the water. I'm going to put it in a tiny speciman jar and try and get a biologist to identify it. Any ideas? Shawn Garbett Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 94 14:10:07 EDT From: BTEditor at aol.com Subject: Source for phosphoric acid This from a BrewingTechniques reader: >Do you have a source for small (one to five gal) amounts of food-grade phosphoric acid? I used hot caustic solution for brew equipment cleaning and need to use an acid wash after the caustic cleaning. >I also need a source for iodophor. Can anyone help out with this? Please e-mail directly to Allen Freeberg, freebera at wsmr-emh91.army.mil Thanks-stephen mallery bteditor at aol.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 13:13:35 -0500 (CDT) From: "Craig Amundsen" <amundsen at molbio.cbs.umn.edu> Subject: Mash/Lauter Tun and Grain Bags Hi - I am slowly acquiring the materials going all grain. I am currently constructing a mash/lauter tun. It is going to have a super-cool(tm) slotted manifold made from CPVC (hot liquid capable PVC pipe). My question is: Do I need to use a grain bag to prevent the husks, etc from plugging up the slots during the sparge? Private reply requested unless the answer is of deemed of general interest. - Craig - -- +-----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+ | Craig Amundsen | DILBERT - Sometimes I wonder if it's ethical | | amundsen at molbio.cbs.umn.edu | to do these genetic experiments. But | | (612) 624-2704 | I rationalize it because it will | | 250 Biological Sciences | improve the quality of life. | | 1445 Gortner Avenue | DOGBERT - What are you making? | | Saint Paul, MN 55108 | DILBERT - Skunkopotamus. | +-----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+ Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 94 13:21:44 CDT From: "Charles S. Jackson" <sjackson at ftmcclln-amedd.army.mil> Subject: Gott coolers (again) my fellow brewers, In response to my recent query about Gott coolers I received the following response. The sender has not responded to my private e-mail so he will remain anonymous, but it would seem that he has a point. What about the dead space? I always seemed to have better luck with a full thermos of coffe than a half-full one. What say yea? Steve - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brewing beer is far more exciting when it is both a hoby AND a felony! The Alabama Outlaw ----- Forwarded message # 1: >> header stripped >> Yesterday, I went out and purchased a gott ten gallon cooler for 39$, largly due to the fact that it had been discussed on the HBD, and I figured t was the standard. What I found out later was that a 5 gallon cooler will hold all the water and grain for a five gallon batch, as long as your total weight on your grains does not supass twelve pounds. So, I returned it and *got* the smaller one and used it. It sems to me that when brewing something with say 8 lbs of grain, that there would be a lot of empty space in that 10 gallon Gott. Empty space to keep warm, to suck the heat out of our precious mash. >> ----- End of forwarded messages Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 94 14:34:25 -0400 From: CORRADINO_DEBRA/Non-HP-Exeter_om2 at om2.ch.apollo.hp.com Subject: please add to list Item Subject: Text_1 Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 94 13:26:51 CDT From: Larry Bristol <LBRISTOL at SYSUBMC.BMC.COM> Subject: Follow up to Fuller's ESB Cloning I received several excellant comments and bits of information following the recipe I posted for cloning Fuller's ESB. I thank everyone who responded! I have posted some of the information I received below. I cannot vouch for the authenticity of the material attributed to George Fix and Jim Busch as it is second hand, so I'll label it as "reportedly from" those individuals. :-) Reportedly From George Fix: > By the way, although Fuller's ESB is a dramatically different beer, one > can still pick up that same "sweetness" in it. Fullers also uses flaked > maize as an adjunct, something Laurie and I both directly observed last > summer in London. > Replace the sugar with 1# of flakes. (Fuller's uses a 10% charge). Scale > up to get an OG in the mid 1.050s. I saw both East Kent and Styrian > Golding in the brewery, but I did not see any Fuggles. They used both > pellets and whole hops. I prefer the latter. Your IBU should wind up in > the high 30s which is spot on. I pick up a citric/winey taste in ales like > the one cited above using sugar. The special sweetness from the flakes > should be evident, and easy to distinguish from the above. Save a few > bottles of the latter for comparison. I'm sort of surprised with the notion that Fullers ESB contains flaked maize as an adjunct. I have no experience with adjuncts (call me a malt purist) but I think I'll have to investigate this a bit to decide whether this might have a flavor impact. I would prefer to make mine from all malt, and the malt schedule from the recipe I posted seems to be really close. As I indicated originally, I think cutting back slightly will bring it a bit closer to the OG of mid 1.050s as suggested in a few responses; the 1.060 I got is just a bit high. >From Jim Busch: > There is no Fuggles in ESB or any of the Fullers beers. They use English > Target, Challenger and Northdown. EKG is in the finish & cask hopping of > both Chiswick Bitter (very good bitter) and ESB. BTW the kettle hops are > Lupofresh( challenger, 91) pellets from Kent and Worscester. They > "Burtonize" the brewing water using mineral salts. A single temp infusion > is employed. The ESB is 1.052 OG (apparently this was reduced for the US > market, according to a brewer I was drinking with in the Pub next door). > I was told they used to use sugar but this is no longer required with the > new mash tuns. I missed out on the Maize part so I do not know, but I > assume George has this correct. Try 5- 10 % in the mash. Skip the sugar, > use caramel malts to get the color and sweetness. > My notes indicate target in the kettle with northdown and challenger late > kettle additions. I would assume that target is a higher alpha hop than > the others. This is a good question for our english readers. Again a comment about there being no fuggles at all in the genuine. It seems incredible to me, but I would expect these folks know whereof they speak! No problem - I like Kent Goldings even better than fuggles! Source unknown: > Fullers uses Challenger, Northdown, and Target hops in the kettle, and its > Chiswick Bitter (1.034, 28 IBU) and ESB (1.054, 35 IBU) are dry-hopped > with Goldings (their London Pride--1.040, 30 IBU--is not). Marris Otter > malts are used throughout, with mash strike temperature at 69 degrees C > (156 F?). Their strongest beer, Golden Pride (a very malty brew, and 9.2% > ABV) is made from the first run-off only, while their other beers are > sparged at 76 C (169 F?). With this many sources indicating that the authentic hop recipe calls for challenger, northdown, and target (for bittering) and kent goldings for finishing, I suspect they are correct. These bittering hops are not easily obtained in the US (as I understand), but things are not impossible as will be seen below. Interestingly, I was convinced that the real thing was probably not dry hopped, but rather used a hop-back type of processing. I decided to dry hop on a lark, and the first couple of pints almost convinced me that this had been a mistake, because even the 1/4oz used seemed to give more hop presents than in the target. But this settled down quickly and now I am glad to have done it. As a curiosity question - does anyone have any thoughts, data, or experiences to relate concerning the differences in the hop character created by dry hopping between kegged vrs. bottled brews? My small number of data points seem to indicate that there is a BIG difference. A number of people commented on the use of centennial hops. I will remind everyone that I stated originally that these hops were clearly *NOT* the variety used by Fuller's in making the genuine article. The truth is, this recipe was an experiment to see if the malt schedule was right (or close), and also to see how that particular Wyeast strain would do in obtaining the requisite sweetness/character for which ESB is known. I just happened to have an ounce of centennials left over from a previous batch, and they just happened to provide the amount of HBU/IBU I thought would be correct. I figured I could adjust the hop flavors in subsequent batches once the other things were "settled". Since the flavor/aroma hops used (fuggles and kent goldings) were expected to dominate the hop character of the beer (and they did), I did not feel like this was too big of a concession to make. Besides, this is a recipe to "clone" not "duplicate" Fuller's ESB. Interestingly, the use of centennials brought out a lot of comments from people who seem to feel strongly that bittering AA from one hop variety is not the same as AA from another variety. OK, I tend to agree, so don't bother trying to convince me because you would only be "preaching to the choir" so to speak. However, my personal experience seems to indicate that the differences are very subtle and probably beyond the perceptions of the vast majority of the folks that are going to taste (or even judge) your beer. BUT (IMHO) THIS IS ONLY GOING TO BE THE CASE where high-AA bittering hops are used in moderation, and they are offset by sufficient quantities of "better" flavor and aroma hops for finishing. I have no basis for this statement except my personal observations; I'll define "moderation" as having the weight of the high AA hops be NO MORE than 50% of the total hops used. (OK, I know I'm asking for it now! :-) Domenick Venezia (venezia at FLAMES.zgi.com) (Hey! That's what the return address read. I'm not making stuff like this up! <g>) also reported: > I think that DeFalco's in Texas has a "British Hop Blend" that contains > Challenger, Northdown, and Target hops. This happens to be my local supply house and I can report that they do indeed have such an item in inventory. I do not know the composition of hops in this blend, but I plan to ask Thursday (25 Aug) when I drop in to buy the ingredients for the next batch. HOPPY BREWING! - ------------------------------------------------------------ Larry Bristol | A true Hitchhiker SYSUBMC.BMC.COM | always knows where (713)274-7802 | his towel is. - ------------------------------------------------------------ Return to table of contents
Date: 24 Aug 94 14:38:31 EDT From: "William F. Cook" <71533.2750 at compuserve.com> Subject: Demijohns/Belgian&BURP/Zymurgy&Mills/MaltMill/Moving2VA I have recently acquired a 14-gallon glass demijohn which makes an excellent primary fermenter for large batches. I cannot, however, find a carboy brush long enough to be a useful cleaning tool. If anyone knows where to get a *really* long carboy brush it would be helpful. I would like to complement Mr. Seitz and the people at BURP who were involved with the series on Belgian ales. I found it informative and well-presented. While I think Norm Pyle and I basically agree on the increasing uselessness of Zymurgy, I must disagree with the notion that it is impossible to print a useful review. There are several popular computer magazines, for example PC Magazine, InfoWorld, and PC Week, which contain a lot of advertising and also print some excellent and informative product reviews. I expect to have to take a review with a grain of salt in any publication that takes advertising, but I don't think it's naive to expect the review to be useful. It should have been conducted in exactly the manner suggested by Mark Stevens in HBD#1056. I should point out that Frank Dobner's comments in HBD#1507 regarding the superior crush he feels he is getting with his Corona sort of prove the point. If you can conclude from the review that the Corona leaves you with sufficiently intact husks for a good sparge, then the magazine has done a disservice to its readers. Jack, thank you for your response but I think you missed my point (This is *NOT* intended as a flame). My point was that I don't understand why the same throughput could not be achieved with, say, 5-inch rollers, since that's their effective length anyway. Would that not cut the cost of the rollers in half? I don't mind over-engineering, particularly in a consumer product, but I'm not aware of any benefit I am receiving with 10-inch rollers. I might have purchased a MM sooner (and avoided my previous troubles) had the price been lower and the rollers shorter. As of 10 Sept 1994, I will be residing in Williamsburg, VA. Three weeks notice is not very much time, but I guess that's the way it goes. In any case, I would appreciate any information regarding where to shop for supplies, where to buy beer, what brewpubs to frequent, etc. Thanx in advance. Bill Cook HydroComp, Inc. Team Dennis Conner Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 16:51:35 -0700 (PDT) From: uswnvg!vfrankl at uunet.uu.net (Victor Franklin) Subject: Las Vegas My buddy is getting married in Vegas next month! Any suggestions on brew pubs or other sights we should see? much appreciated! Victor Franklin vfrankl at uswnvg.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 22:27:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Steven D. Lefebvre" <slefebvr at moose.uvm.edu> Subject: Return to table of contents
Date: 24 Aug 94 23:09:04 EDT From: "Joan Donohue" <DONOHUE at darla.badm.scarolina.edu> Subject: Woodchuck & Strongbow Ciders "md" wrote to HBD asking if anyone had a recipe for Woodchuck cider. Since there were no responses, I assume noone does. However, if someone sent a recipe to "md" directly, then could you also send it to me? I also am a fan of the cider. On a trip to Australia this summer, I found another excellent cider called "strongbow" (?sp), which is available in sweet, draught, and dry. So I was wondering if any of the Australian HBD readers have a recipe for Strongbow cider? Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 1994 23:26:00 -0400 From: mike.sadul at canrem.com (Mike Sadul) Subject: Hop cones per ounce OK, so I've harvested some hops and they are drying nicely. Now, since I don't have a scale (yet...) and probably won't have one before I brew my next batch, how can I calculate how many hops to use for flavor and aroma? I still plan on using store bought hops for bittering, but I need some kind of reference for the homegrowns. Assuming average sized cones (ya, ya, I know, no such thing), how many cones per ounce? I've never actually used full cones before, only pellets and leaves. I realize It's not possible to be accurate, but a ballpark figure would suffice. Hop'ing for the best, Mike msadul at interactiv.com Return to table of contents
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 94 22:13:37 MDT From: Jeff Benjamin <benji at hpfcbug.fc.hp.com> Subject: Tin cookware Someone recently brought up the subject of tin-lined copper cookware, and suggested taking off the tin coating. I wouldn't recommend doing that, as the tin has a reason for being there. The following passages are taken from _On Food and Cooking: The Science and Lore of the Kitchen_ by Harold McGee, from the section on utensil materials: Copper ... In the kitchen, it has one thing going for it: it's unmatched conductivity, which makes fast and even heating a simple matter. ...It is troublesome to keep polished, because it has a high affinity for oxygen *and* sulfur, and forms a greenish coating when exposed to air.... Most important, copper cookware can be harmful. Its oxide coating is sometimes porous and powdery, and copper ions are easily leached into food solutions. They can have attractive effects: the green color of cooked vegetables is improved by their presence. But the human body can excrete copper in only limited amounts, and exessive intake can cause gastrointestinal problems and, in more extreme cases, liver damage. No one will be poisoned by the occasional zabaglione whipped in a copper bowl, but clearly copper is not a good candidate for everyday cooking. To overcome this major drawback, manufacturers line copper utensils with tin, but tin, as we shall see, has its own limitations. Tin ... Today, outside of the lined steel can, tin is generally found only as a nontoxic, unreactive lining in copper utensils. This limited role is the result of two troublesome properties: a low melting point, 450 F (232 C), that can be reached in extreme cooking procedures, and a softness that makes it very susceptible to wear. As for aluminum, McGee does note that "reactive food molecules" like acids will penetrate the metal surface and form aluminum oxides in minute quantities. However, I doubt that normal brewing or cooking procedures will destroy a pot in any appreciable amount of time, unless you leave it in the back of your fridge for two weeks :-). It seems the traditional material for boilers, copper, is actually the most dangerous! McGee states, "there is no single material that is both chemically unreactive and an excellent conductor of heat, that will leave the food unaltered and yet heat it evenly." So just buy what you can afford, and stop being such worry-worts (pun intended). We'll all probably do more damage to our brain cells and livers from the alcohol than from minute traces of metal in our homebrew. - -- Jeff Benjamin benji at fc.hp.com Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado "Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium." - T.S. Eliot Return to table of contents
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 94 00:23 CDT From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel) Subject: Dishwashing sanitizing ===> Re: dishwasher sanitation >Could anyone out there with experience and success in cleaning or >sanitizing bottles in a dishwasher share the technique? While giving >this a little thought over the last few days I've pondered a couple >of questions: Will Cascade (the soap, not the hops) and my >dishwasher set on "extra hot" do the trick? Should I soak bottles in >a bleach solution beforehand and rinse and drip-dry in the dishwasher >afterward? Can I use bleach in the dishwasher as a sanitizer or does >hot water eliminate the sanitizing qualities of the bleach (or is >there another sanitizing agent that works well with hot water)? Or, >should I take my laboriously collected bottle supply (entailed >dedicated and exhaustive consumption efforts) to the recycling center >and buy a keg set-up? I don't sense much interest out there so a >private e-mail response is fine. I use a dishwasher to sanitize my beer bottles. I generally rinse my beer bottles after I drink the beer to avoid having to expend much more effort later. To sanitize the bottles, I load them in the dishwasher and add 1/4 - 1/2 cup of bleach to help sanitize the bottles and kill any bacteria that might be in the dishwasher. I use a the heavy duty cycle and heat drying. Don't use dishwashing soap as any residue will kill the head on the beer you've made. After the dishwasher cycle is over, I unload the bottles and put them in the beer cases upside down until I fill them shortly thereafter. - -- Phil _____________________________________________________________ Philip Gravel pgravel at mcs.com Return to table of contents
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1512, 08/27/94