FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Re: Hop Utilisation (Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
  st. pats (Gregg Tennefoss)
  Stuff on www (MELOTH MICHAEL S)
  Any other Brew sources around? (PAULDORE)
  Bottle carbonation woes (Lee Bollard)
  Copper manifolds (Lee Bollard)
  Re: Wort Chiller Construction, Terry Terfinko (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Insulated Brewpots. (Erik Speckman)
  2-bucket sparging/2-day brewing/wheat re-req (David Draper)
  Cookers / Flaming / Hops / Garbage (COYOTE)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Mon, 5 Sep 94 17:28:25 EST
From: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Hop Utilisation
Full-Name: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen

korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) wrote:

| Anything longer than about 15 or 20 minutes and most of the hop 
| flavor will boil off.  

Hmmmm ... one solitary "data point" with no backup, vaguely heresay
references and no background in scientific reasoning:

The fella at the brew-pub had a bitter that had just ONE addition 
of very fresh EKG hop plugs at the beginning of a one hour boil 
and it had plenty of hop flavour (from memory it was 1kg of EKG 
in a 500 litre batch).  

Go figure.

Aidan

- --
Aidan Heerdegen				
e-mail: aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au

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Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 09:30:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: greggt at infi.net (Gregg Tennefoss)
Subject: st. pats

I realy can't believe that I'm making myself flamebait again but ...

It's very interesting that we can sit back and click our keys and flame
and rant and rave about a product or company and then get upset when they
defend themselves.
I DO NOT think the digest is the place for blatent advertising. But, I do
believe that a company has the right to defend itself. It is in our own
interest to hear both side so that we may make informed decisions. 
For the record Lynne did not write the "offending" post, her husband did.
I also know that Lynne has been highly resistent to responding via the net.
The post also did not read much like an advertisement but a statement of some
facts and some defense.

I just got a brain storm (maybee just a drizzle) why don't why just stop all
product and company endorsements all together by anyone. How do we know for
sure that the authers are not covert agent of the company poseing as a mere
homebrewer just to lure us into their traps.
In fact, how do we know for sure that the complaints are not some sort of   
conspiracy by the competition.
(Please note heavy sarcasm here)


Just my 2 bottle caps worth.

"LET THE FLAMES BEGIN"

Disclaimer: I hereby swear that I have no connection what so ever with
St Pats (although Lynne does sound cute!! { oh no here come the sexist
remark flames}) or any other beer related product etc ....... Hell, I'll
even admit to drinking a Bud and liking it.

cheers


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Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 09:23:59 -0600 (MDT)
From: MELOTH MICHAEL S <meloth at spot.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: Stuff on www

I'm not the most competent internet user in the world so I would like 
help with the recent addresses posted on the digest about accessing 
beer related information.  Speficically, I know how to ftp, but what does 
http://...... mean and how do I access it?

 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *   *   *
 Michael S. Meloth           Phone:  303-492-5204
 University of Colorado      FAX:    303-492-7090
 Campus Box 249              Internet:  meloth at spot.colorado.edu
 Boulder, CO  80309
 *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *  *



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Date: Mon, 05 Sep 1994 13:26:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: PAULDORE at delphi.com
Subject: Any other Brew sources around?

Hi all, I was wonder if there are any other Homebrew online resources around
the world besides this HBD and rec.crafts.brewing?  I have called a few
BBS's in the USA and they are pretty lame.

Any one know of any other FTP's besides - sierra.stanford.edu.

I'm looking for recipes, brew techniques, other usefull homebrew information.

Pauldore at delphi.com

PS. Post your reply on HBD for others to take advantage of.


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Date: Mon, 5 Sep 94 10:54:27 PDT
From: Lee Bollard <bollard at spk.hp.com>
Subject: Bottle carbonation woes


I didn't think this would ever happen to ME.  Yes I found an exploded
bottle in one of the cases I bottled 2.5 weeks ago.

This batch yielded only 4 gallons, but I forgot to adjust the corn sugar
and used 3/4 cup anyway.  I also forgot to stir after siphoning it into
the brew. The gentle swirly of the siphoning is all the primed mixture
got before being bottled.  Are these fopas enough to cause bottles to
explode?  The bottle was a heavy-duty long-neck returnable Bud 12oz
bottle BTW.  Not a wimply bottle by any means.  Perhaps it was
weak/damaged?

My brew tasted great at bottling, but at two weeks the bubbles tasted
really big and overcarbonated.  Assuming this doesn't improve with time,
what should I do?  Note:  I have acquired some corny kegs.  Dare I open
all the bottles and empty them into a keg?

Thanks for the advice!

Regards,

Lee Bollard
bollard at spk.hp.com



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Date: Mon, 5 Sep 94 10:56:20 PDT
From: Lee Bollard <bollard at spk.hp.com>
Subject: Copper manifolds


I'm looking for a good manifold system for my 10 gal Gott cooler.  I
can't find the proper parts.

1. Bulkhead fitting.  All I can find is a bulkhead fitting that has 3/8
compression fittings on each end.  This may work.

2. Valves.  I can't find any "spigot" valves like the EasyMasher uses
(see advertisement in BT for picture)  All I find are inline-type valves.
Okay, but less than ideal.

2. 3/8" copper tubing.  No T's or L's are available for this size pipe
(except compression T's which are huge).

3. If I could find a 3/8 x 1/2 x 1/2 compression "T" I could use 1/2"
copper pipe for the manifold (in a circle configuration), and use the 3/8
bulkhead fitting.  But does such a "T" exist?

4.  Are there any mail-order catalogs the list brass and copper parts?
This would make this job infinitely easier!

5.  I'm open to ANY ideas that will make building this manifold easier.
I'm trying to avoid just using a rubber stopper to attach the manifold, as
it doesn't seem too secure.

Thanks in advance,

Regards,

Lee Bollard
bollard at spk.hp.com


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Date: Mon, 5 Sep 94 11:34:11 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Wort Chiller Construction, Terry Terfinko

>>>>> "Guenther" == Guenther H Trageser <73672.613 at compuserve.com> writes:

Guenther> There is a very simple trick to preventing kinks while
Guenther> bending metal tubes.  Fill them tightly with dry sand. You
Guenther> may only need to do this with your inner tube, but for a
Guenther> perfect bend you should try and fill both tubes. its bound
Guenther> to work a treat.

This is a good suggestion, but a better one is to use salt.  If you
have ever tried to remove tightly packed sand from inside a tube, you
know it can sometimes be close to impossible.  With salt, you can
just dissolve it out with water.

dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 12:54:46 -0800
From: especkma at reed.edu (Erik Speckman)
Subject: Insulated Brewpots.

I am gradually working my way up to all grain brewing.

The biggest impement is keeping 6-7 gallons of wort boiling on my electric
stove.  I haven't actually tried it yet, I don't want to spend money on a
pot until I am sure I can do it, but I really have my doubts.

So today I was wistfully thinking about my first all-grain batch and it
occured to me that I could probably pull of a full boil if I had some way
of insulating the sides of the pot.

Has anyone done this?   I was thinking of making some sort of blanket to
wrap arround the kettel but I am not sure of suitable materials.  It would
need to be cleanable and it shouldn't be something that sheds fibres into
the wort.

What ever it is, it has to be cheap, say under $20.  I would appreciate any
suggestions.

______________________________________________________________________
Erik A. Speckman       Seattle, Washington      Good Brain Doesn't Suck
especkma at reed.edu                                  especkma at halcyon.com



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Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 08:27:04 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au>
Subject: 2-bucket sparging/2-day brewing/wheat re-req

Dear Friends, now that my mashing routine is getting relatively well-
established, I have come up with a couple of questions that I am hoping some
of you can help me with.

1. I use one of the drilled-bucket-in-a-bucket sparging setups.  I have had
good advice from several highly knowledgeable net.brewers to underlet the
inner, drilled bucket with hot water to a) give a continuous liquid path from
the base of the grain bed to the spigot, and b) to avoid oxidation, which
could result if the wort simply fell to the bottom of the outer bucket.  It
strikes me that the net effect here is to add a bunch of water (6 litres in my
case) to the sparged wort.  Seems this would greatly reduce the apparent
efficiency, since the actual extracted wort is diluted by that volume.  For my
current partial-mash, partial-boil-volume (17L brewpot) procedure, that 6 L is
a substantial portion of my boil volume.  Does it all come out in the wash,
that is, would I estimate the same extraction if I could avoid the dilution
(e.g. through use of a slotted manifold in a cooler, eezymasher, etc)? 
Something tells me this must be the case, because my extraction rates have
steadily improved as I have got my mashing legs about me, from the 23's
(pts/lb/gal) at first to tonight's just over 30, and it doesn't seem
reasonable that my extraction could be nearly 25% better than what I am
measuring.  I am sure someone has thought all this out, and I'd like to hear
from you if you have.

2. Owing to the wildly different schedules kept by my wife (long hours, home
late most nights) and myself (easy life of the egghead academic, work when you
want to), and the addition of mashing & sparging to my brewing procedures,
many recent batches have been made on two successive days: mash and sparge on
the first, leaving the wort till the next evening to boil, cool, and pitch.  I
figure anything growing in the sweet wort overnight will get nuked by the
boil, and so far there have been no problems.  Last time I did this, I noticed
great huge globs of stuff (a technical term) that look like break material in
the wort when I fired it up the next day.  Presumably these were protein
masses of some kind that formed as the wort slowly cooled from sparge temps to
ambient.  I did nothing to separate this stuff from the wort, thinking it
might still be required for reactions that take place only during the boil. 
Did I guess right?  Or should I rack the wort off any such stuff in future 2-
day brews?  What *is* that stuff anyway?

Not to sound petulant, but I got just one response to my request for tasting
notes on American-style (i.e. non-phenolic) wheat beers (Thanks Jim Larsen). 
I know there are PNW brewers out there who have this info at hand--so I'll
reiterate my request one more time and then shut up about it.

Thanks to all, Cheers, Dave in Sydney

- --
"Life's a bitch, but at least there's homebrew" ---Norm Pyle
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109
Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper at mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428
             ....I'm not from here, I just live here....



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Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 00:53:03 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Cookers / Flaming / Hops / Garbage

 Guy McConnell had a summary of his search for a .....
Cooker for 15 gal keg.

I'd like to chime in that the Camp Chef/ Cache Cooker (aka Coyote Cooker :)
can do the trick.  It's got a sturdy cast iron frame that holds plenty.
The frame seems sturdier to me than the King Cookers and Cajun Cookers
I've seen in stores.  The stoves handle dutch ovens fine.

They do make low and high pressure units.  One, two, even three burners
Short, of with extension legs. Even folding legs are available.

I don't make any money from them, in fact I gave them $68 for the 
two burner unit I frequently brew 15+ gallons on (like my amber ale
I made today!)

***
Al's  Flaming Flasks question.  Air goes in as the agar comes out.

Yeah, it does.  I submit.
Test tubes can be effectively flamed to push air out.
Flasks benefit by flaming the lip to remove surface contaminants
so they don't get into the plated.  The real key is to work quickly, yet
smoothly, and as I said before, keep the flask tilted so a drop doesn't
run up and down the side drawing surface contaminants with it.

Reflame the lip every 5 plates or so, just for the 'noid-ness of it all!


***
richard childers:
Spoke about drying hops.  He suggested
>  a light bulb to heat a dryer frame unit

*   I'd have to disagree.  A light bulb may be fine for a yogurt or yeast
incubator,  but the three things which will screw up hops are 

    1.  Oxygen, i.e., oxidation
    2.  Light.
    3.  Heat

I'd suggest a different source of heat than a light bulb, if any at all.

Personally, I find in my dry western climate ...
("Utah may be a desert, but it's not dry!"  Upcoming microbrewfest moto!)
 ... that two days on a window-screen/frame leaves them nicely dried, but 
not crisp.  Personally I'd chose to favor the not too dry over crisp and
crumbly.  I'd guess that heated dehydrators could quickly overdo hops.

I have a homemade fruit dryer that can fully enclose the shelves, but
a friend has it borrowed, I just have two of the shelves. They work fine.
BUT:  I keep them in the garage, so they are out of direct bright light.


>>I would think that if you boiled them up green you'd get chlorophyll-
 -flavored beer, rather than hops-flavored beer.

>The whole idea of "curing" is to get the chlorophyll to slowly break
down into less detectable components ( I surmise ) and to extract the
water, also, of course, so as to inhibit infections. ( I would think
that going into some detail on excatly what "curing" is might be good,
in the Hops FAQ, if it does not already do so. )

*  I believe the "whole idea" is to reduce the water content so that the
hops can be frozen without turning to mush.  I'd questioned whether there
was any NEED for drying before use, and haven't received any true reasons.
I don't think that drying is going to break down chloropyl.  The cones
remain green after drying (unless they get too much light!- when they turn
brown) indicating that they still contain chlorophyl.

So- to test such a theory impirically, I chose to USE some freshly picked
Williamette hops (cones as big as my thumb- my GREEN thumb that is!) as
finishing hops in todays brewing effort.  Added a carefully measured out...
handful at the end of the boil.  Well,   they smelled good before they went
in, and well....the smelled even better after they went in.  It'll be 
a couple weeks until I can properly complete the experiment and report my
results.  But I didn't detect any "green" aromas that I don't normally
detect with the use of finishing hops.

FWIW:  THe pulley system (if you've caught my previous descriptions)
are working well.  They've been up and down a few times now.
The Nugget challenged the top of the pole, so before it could tangle I
dropped it down a bit, and tied it out on a guy wire to keep it from the top.

*   Jack S.- You once attempted to design a home test of alpha acids
for home-hop-growers.  Did such an effort ever pan out?  Does anyone know
of an economical method for the homegrower to guestimate alpha content of 
homegrown hops without the expense of lab equipment or standars...etc?

***
As for OAQwhathisbuckets, and other consistent bouncers-
I say-  Scrap the Bastards- if they are repeat offenders.

I semi jokingly slammed the garbage in the digest once before.
For my efforts to keep the digest clean I received a very rude
and insulting e-mail from Mr. OAQKwacker "explaining" that it wasn't 
his fault his mailer burped so.  He so wanted to be sure I got the
message, that he sent me two copies of it.

There are other sources for receiving the digest than direct mail.
Sierra and others have them archived. NEWS also has RCB with the HBD.
If this is to be a recurring problem, and the recipient is unable to
fix it at his/her end, then I vote (no democracy here!) to dump the
busters for ALL of our benefits.  Such digests filled with regurgitated
error messages are a nuisance, and a waste of all of our time.
Receiving the digest direct is a privelage, which should be justly earned.

Granted- give them warning, but if three's a charm, then DUMP the buggers!

Just my 2c.
    0
    |\
  |\| \/|   \-\-\-  John (The Coyote) Wyllie   SLK6P at cc.usu.edu  -/-/-/
   \    |      ---  Smithfield Utah, it definitely ain't dry!    ----

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1519, 09/06/94