FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Re: 2-bucket sparging/2-day brewing/wheat re-req (Tel +44 784 443167)
  Hops for Trappist Ale (WLK.Wbst311)
  Coors "Artic" Ice (GONTAREK)
  yeasty septic system (Btalk)
  ginger beer ("Griffin, Daniel")
  Free beer! (Bob Jones)
  insulating brewpots and electric stoves (Todd Swanson)
  Stuff on www (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  Bending Tubing (Steve Scampini)
  Racking under CO2 (smtplink!guym)
  more newbie stuff ("Brian Ellsworth, 203-286-1606")
  Drying hops (Steven Lichtenberg)
  Copper tubing bending tool. ("Lee A. Menegoni")
  grenade/hopdrying (RONALD DWELLE)
  Perry recipe ("LOWE, Stuart")
  Yeast-starters and questions (mike.snyder)
  Re Soft Copper Tube Bending ("Palmer.John")
  Heading agents ("Lesko, David              MRS")
  Re: Insulated brewpots (smtplink!guym)
  Oops (npyle)
  water analysis (Sean Rooney)
  defending austinites/smokey beers (Alan P Van Dyke)
  Recipe Request: Spaten Oktoberfest (David Knight)
  Pepper Beer (Roger Grow)
  Yeast use. (Schinelli, Capt Bruce)
  My comments/drying hops/egg drop soup/iodophor (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Hot Break Cold Break (berkun)
  Drying Orange Rind (haltstei)
  Safe glass (John McCaskill)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 10:13:33 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland at rhbnc.ac.uk> (Tel +44 784 443167)
Subject: Re: 2-bucket sparging/2-day brewing/wheat re-req


In HBD 1519, David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au> wrote:
> [Snip]
> 
> 1. I use one of the drilled-bucket-in-a-bucket sparging
> setups.  I have had good advice from several highly
> knowledgeable net.brewers to underlet the inner, drilled
> bucket with hot water to a) give a continuous liquid path
> from the base of the grain bed to the spigot, and b) to
> avoid oxidation, which could result if the wort simply
> fell to the bottom of the outer bucket. It strikes me that
> the net effect here is to add a bunch of water (6 litres in
> my case) to the sparged wort.  Seems this would greatly
> reduce the apparent efficiency, since the actual extracted
> wort is diluted by that volume.
>
> [Snip]

     I used one of these twin-bin setups for my first 6-7 brews
with pretty good results. My comments on the above are as
follows - many US brewers (amongst others) don't agree with
running the grain bed dry and prefer the practice of under-letting
or fly-mashing (UK term I think, which is the practice of sparging
at the same time as run-off so as not to let the grain bed pack
down). I used fly-mashing in my twin-bin on a couple of occasions
as I was having trouble with set-mashes due to a) bad hole size -
the holes got blocked, b)poor grain (lots of flour), c) large
grain bill. Other than that, I drained the bed at run-off before
sparging. One thing I did do was to only let the sweet wort in the
base of the outer bin drop to an inch below the inner bin and
adjusted the sparge flow to keep that way. That way, the sweet wort
only fell an inch. I never saw any recognisable signs of oxidation.
One big problem (other than the three I mentioned above) was I
had about 5 litres of wasted space under the inner bin which meant
one of two things - either I used the standard amount of mash
liquor making the mash very stiff due to 5 litres "dormant" or I
added an extra 5 litres to the mash liquor and ended up with
less sparging liquor - this meant loss of efficiency as I can
only boil at just over 20 litres so was penalized by 5 litres of
essential sparge liquor that I couldn't run through. This is
similar to your problem of diluting by under-letting but possibly
not as bad as at least the "dormant" 5 litres in my setup contained
malty sugars rather than being pure water.
I now use the outer bin only, as follows. I fitted a second tap
(first one was too high) as low as possible in the bin and built
a square slotted copper manifold. This is made from 15mm copper
pipe and uses corner joints and a "T" joint that had no solder
pre-applied - its all a push-fit and connects to the tap by a
1.5 inch length of pipe which fits inside the tap and outside
the "T". The slots are cut in the three sides without the "T"
with a junior hacksaw. The square is almost exactly a snug fit
with the bottom of the bin to prevent it coming apart under the
grain.
The benefits are a) I can use the correct amount of mash liquor
with no wastage, b) no risk of oxidation due to dropping liqour,
c) no blocked holes so I can drain the grain bed, d) easier to
clean, e) not as tall so don't have to balance my sparge liquor
tank as high as I used to, f) my mash efficiency has risen from
80% to 85-90% (from 28 pts - 30-32 pts).
It also works as a hopback as I don't have a false bottom in
my boiler yet.
One last point - for those who use this sort of setup for
sparging only (i.e. as a lauter tun with the mash in another
vessel) - if you do single temp. infusion mashes, try insulating
it with old heating boiler strips and/or blankets and mash in
there too - it saves transferring the grain from one place
to another. This may seem obvious/old-news to many but I have
talked to a few people who hadn't thought of this (not my idea).
Cheers,
     Brian


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Date: 	Tue, 6 Sep 1994 04:07:20 PDT
From: WLK.Wbst311 at xerox.com
Subject: Hops for Trappist Ale

Greetings:
I am buying ingredients for an extract Trappist Ale whilst my Chimay starter
gets under way. I have some unopened hop plugs in the freezer, but I would like
to know what the best hop variety would be to use for such a recipe. I am
anticipating using Miller's formulation for a 2.5 gal. as follows: 3.3# Pale
Extract, 1.0# Pale Dry Extract, 1/2 Dark Brown Sugar, 1/2# 40 Crystal and 1/4
oz. Black Patent Malt  for "micromash", and a magical mixture of hops, about 6
AAUs. Miller suggests a wide variety of hops, i.e Goldings, Hallertauer (of
which there are quite a variety recently available) amongst a few others. Any
suggestions as to what would work best in simulating the hop character of
Chimay?

Oh yeah, I finally came across the blue label Chimay Trappist Ale in the beer
stores. Can anyone tell me how it differs from the red label variety? The store
owner wasn't much help!

Thanks
Bill K.

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Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 7:11:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: GONTAREK at FCRFV1.NCIFCRF.GOV
Subject: Coors "Artic" Ice

Hello all!  This is not strictly homebrew-related, but if you will 
indulge me for a moment...
	Last night I saw a TV ad for Coors' new ice beer, called 
"Coors Artic Ice".  I am a biologist and not an English scholar,
but shouldn't it be "Arctic"?  I looked in my trusty dictionary
and found no such word as "Artic".  Could it be that the suits at
Coors made a big mistake by not using their spellchecker on their
labels and advertising campaign?  Anyway, I thought it was amusing.
	Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.....

Rick Gontarek
Owner/Brewmaster of the Major Groove Picobrewery
Baltimore, MD
gontarek at ncifcrf.gov

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Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 07:52:28 EDT
From: Btalk at aol.com
Subject: yeasty septic system

Pat asks about yeast slurry instead of Rid-X type 'additives' to boost the
biological activity in his septic tank.

Pat, think about it... Isn't there enough stuff that normally goes into your
septic system that will keep it 'lively'?
Stay away from those septic tank additives. They can cause the stuff that is
supposed to stay in the septic tank to end up in your leach  lines and clog
the pores in the soil where the liquid sewage is supposed to be absorbed.
I used to work for a county health dep't in central NY, and even the
guidelines handed down by the state recommended against any of the commercial
additives. Having your septic tank pumped out every 2-3 years is the best
thing.
Your yeast slurry shouldn't matter though.
Regards,
Bob Talkiewicz,Binghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com>


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Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 08:18:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Griffin, Daniel" <griffind at crl3.crl.aecl.ca>
Subject: ginger beer




I'm looking for an extract recipe for ginger beer.  I don't want a weak beer
tasting of ginger, I want something closer to a Jamaican Ginger beer --
taste so strong it hurts :-)
E-mail me - GRIFFIND at crl3.crl.aecl.ca

TIA

Douglas Gee
GRIFFIND at crl3.crl.aecl.ca
Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd.
AECL Research

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Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 07:19:13 +0900
From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
Subject: Free beer!

Well almost. There is a special running around my area on Henry Weinhards
beers. You get a $4 rebate per 12 pack of beer. Up to $12 per household. The
going price for this beer is $4.49 per 12 pack. So after the rebate thats 49
cents per 12 pack. There are three or four styles available. I picked up the
Red something, the Blue Boar and regular Henrys. The Red is the best. Sort
of like the Millers Amber ale. The special is on until Sept. 9th, so better
move fast.

If you _really_ don't like Henrys you could always use the beer as a rinse
after using iodaphor or bleach :->

Bob Jones
bjones at novax.llnl.gov



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Date:         Tue, 06 Sep 94 09:26:11 CDT
From: Todd Swanson <BCHM014 at UNLVM.UNL.EDU>
Subject:      insulating brewpots and electric stoves

Greetings Brewers,

In HBD #1519 Erik Speckman (especkma at reed.edu) wanted to know if his electric
stove could manage a full boil (6-7 gal).  The answer is yes it can.  However,
you will have to wait a while for it to happen.  I have done 6.5 gallon boils
on my electric stove using a 33qt enamel on steel brewpot.  The pot sits on
2 burners and I use both of them.  It takes about 30 min. to get the boil going
and I have to keep the pot covered or mostly covered.

Erik then asks about insulating the brewpot.  I would be interested in hearing
more on this subject too!  Judging by how hot my kitchen gets, I know my kettle
is radiating a lot of heat from the sides of the kettle.

TIA for the info,

Todd Swanson (bchm014 at unlvm.unl.edu)

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Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 10:38:45 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Stuff on www

** Re: question on how to access WWW resources.

You need a "WWW browser" program to get at the http: things.  The most
popular is probably Mosaic, which runs on Unix, Mac, and PC (three
versions: X Mosaic, MacMosaic, and WinMosaic, respectively).  If
you've got only a "serial" connection to the network, with no
windowing possible, then the Lynx program (runs on Unix) is a
possibility.  Talk to your local sys admin folks and see if they've
already installed one of these programs.

=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI

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Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 10:57:29 EDT
From: Steve Scampini <scampini at hpangrt.an.hp.com>
Subject: Bending Tubing

If memory serves, an important thing to keep in mind when bending any 
metal is work hardening.  I am no metals guy but basically it has to do
with the metal becoming harder and tougher to bend the more you bend it.
I am sure the alloy and the prior treatment of the metal has alot to
do with this phenomenon.  So...if you repeatedly fuss with the tubing,
bending and rebending to get just the right curves you are more likely
to kink it.  I would guess there is some heating protocol which would
undo the work hardening.  I once heard of a classroom demo where a
specially prepared (softened) rod of some copper alloy is presented to
the smallest, apparently weakest member of the audience and asked to 
bend it.  The child bends it with no problem.  Then the largest, most
muscle bound member is asked to come up and unbend the rod.  No luck.
Is this little bit of folklore pausible?


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Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 08:51:45 MDT
From: exabyte!smtplink!guym at uunet.uu.net
Subject: Racking under CO2


  I've been reading the keg fermentation tips with great interest.  Here's a 
  little trick that I've used the last couple of batches.  I do my primary 
  ferments in 7 gallon acid carboys (which I got at a great price from a 
  certain saint in Austin, Texas but I won't mention that) primarily due to 
  the fermenter geometry information mentioned by George Fix.  I had been 
  thinking of fermenting in my kegs in order to keep the beer under a blanket 
  of CO2 during the whole fermentation/racking process but I came up with 
  another idea.  When I get ready to rack to the secondary (a keg now), I 
  shoot a blast of CO2 into the bottom of the keg and then attach the tubing 
  from the cylinder to the "blowhole" on my orange carboy cap.  Instead of 
  blowing into the carboy to start the siphon, I turn the pressure down to a 
  couple of psi and crack the valve on my CO2 cylinder to start the transfer. 
  This blankets the beer in the primary while forcing it into the bottom of 
  the keg (already blanketed with CO2).  This does not entirely eliminate the 
  possibility of introducing oxygen but greatly reduces it.  It also allows 
  me to at least do the primary ferment (5 gallons) in a short, squat vessel 
  as George recommends.  I typically seal the secondary keg, monitor the 
  pressure, and add CO2 for slow force carbonation if needed.  I tapped a 
  Newcastle clone over Labor Day that has been in the keg for 17 weeks at 
  room temperature (72 - 75 F) that I handled this way and it was excellent.  
  Just a suggestion.
  
  --
  Guy McConnell -- Exabyte Corporation -- guym at exabyte.com
  "Temperature's rising, better pop another keg..."

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Date: 06 Sep 1994 11:14:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Brian Ellsworth, 203-286-1606" <ELLSWORTH%BRAVO at utrcgw.utc.com>
Subject: more newbie stuff

In the midst of all the exceptionally technical, scientific
information offered here in the homebrew digest, I'd like to
inject a simple message for the benefit of all you newbies out
there:

A month or so ago I posted some questions regarding a mysterious
'ring around the carboy'. This ring appeared in secondary
fermentation of my third batch within a week of racking from the
primary. (The primary stage lasted about two weeks.) The ring was
cloudy/white and settled just at the level of the brew. Later, I
noticed some additional oddities in the form of cloudy white
'mist' resting in the ridges of the carboy, and about an inch
from the bottom. 

The 5-gallon brew looked positively evil. It was an extremely
dark concoction, heavily hopped, and loaded with at least 12lbs
of dark extract, wheat, chocolate, and dark crystal malt, brought
to life by a combination or lager yeast, and champaign kicker!
I'd spent a fair amount of cash and effort on this batch, so my
expectations were quiet high! But, alas, the floating and
clinging oddities had me, (sorry to say) worried...

A couple of helpful, more experienced brewers responded to my
concerns. Most said the same thing. "..let it finish, don't dump
it until you are sure it's bad...". Some recommending bottling
just a few to test it, etc.

Sage advice.. I let it run it's course. A few weeks ago I kegged
the beast. This long Labor Day weekend I couldn't contain myself
any longer and plugged in the tap.

Ahhhhh..... Sweet success.... Cloudiness, gone; sour taste, not a
bit; off flavors, none; Just a marvelous, complex mixture of
tempting hop aromas, (ah, nose?), a smooth malty flavor, balanced
with a refreshing bitterness. Crisp, and clean with no unpleasant
after bite or taste. Very heavy, and full-bodied.

Novice palette? Inexperienced judge? Easily impressed beginner?
Yes, yes, yes, no doubt, but a totally contented laborer, basking
in the satisfaction of a job well done. Experienced connoisseurs
might advise a bit more aging. ".. it will get better with
time..",they might add. Maybe, but I doubt I'll find out this
round!

So, fellow newbie, in the immortal words of Charley P., relax,
don't worry, etc.... And, from a fellow newbie, DON'T ever throw
out a questionable batch until you're sure. It might just be a
true diamond in the rough!

On to the next grand, experimental, concoction..... 

brian ellsworth

oh yea. Thanks to everyone that responded to my questions. I'm
slowly becoming convinced that is it really fairly difficult to
totally screw up a batch of beer. Predictability and consistency
are other issues, at least for now!

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Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 10:57:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steven Lichtenberg <steve at army.mil>
Subject: Drying hops

Greetings all--

I have been following the threads lately on drying hops and thought I 
would add my 2c.

Here in the Mid Atlantic, the weather is almost always HUMID.  Summers 
consistently reach the 90/90 threshold (90^ and 90% humidity).  not real 
fun...  In those tropical conditions, food stuffs turn moldy FAST ( I 
have seen cake mold within hours of cutting it)  Therefore drying 
anything as most books suggest, in the sun is an excercise in futility.  
I have seen fresh herbs grow mold within a few days as well.  I believe 
hops will do the same I haven't tried though.  
When thinking about long 
term storage of herbs (or any other plant material) you almost have to 
dry them to retard the mold growth.  I really believe this is the main 
reason fo rdrying (promotes long term storage). 

  I dry 
my hops (and tomatoes and basil etc) in the oven with the pilot only.  
Another reason gas ovens are a good thing!  This works very well. just 
stick the little guys in there and forget about them for a day or two. 
Works great!

As for using fresh hops right off the vine, there are probably some 
parallels with fresh herbs.. Fresh herbs have a much different taste from 
dried.  The flavor is more intense, read fresher tasting. 
Drying will detract from some of the more subtle flavor components in the 
herb and intensify others.  That is why you have to use much more of a 
fresh herb than dried, 2-3 times more sometimes!!!  If you use fresh hops 
instead of dried, do you need to add more to get the same flavor?  I would
think the herbal/ floral notes imparted by a specific hops would be 
intensified by using fresh but the bittering notes would probably be 
intensified in the dried varieties.  Glenn or Mark, any comments... or am 
I way off base here?

Anyway, since someone here just commented that I am the only one 
_WORKING_ this morning I might just have to really do something NAAHHHH.

   
       **** ---- "There's always time for a Homebrew!" ----  ****
      C|~~| -------------- Steven Lichtenberg ------------- C|~~|
       `--'  -------- steve at pentagon-emh6.army.mil -------   `--'
              -------------------------------------------

                 ENJOY LIFE--THIS IS NOT A REHEARSAL



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Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 11:28:02 EDT
From: "Lee A. Menegoni" <lmenegoni at nectech.com>
Subject: Copper tubing bending tool.

WHen I made my immersion chiller from a 50' coil of 3/8" OD soft copper 
tubing I also purcahsed a bending tool for less than $2.  This tool is a 
foot long tightly coiled, flexible spring like item whose inner diameter is 
the same as the tubing OD.  I have seen them in sizes for 3/8" and 1/2" 
tubing at Home Depot.  

I used this while wrapping the tubing around a 5 gallon soda keg as a form 
and also used it to make a coiled manifold for a 10 gallon Gott mash tun, 
no kink in either.   
 

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Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 11:34:07 EST
From: dweller at GVSU.EDU (RONALD DWELLE)
Subject: grenade/hopdrying

     A warning: last spring I filled a gallo 4 liter (or so) wine jug 
     with some brew and used the gallo screw-on cap. I thought the jug 
     was extra heavy duty glass and the cap good. Well, this last 
     weekend, it blew (we weren't around, fortunately)--shards of 
     glass all over the basement, much of it stuck to walls, ceiling, 
     floor with the dried up "DirtySocks Stout." Weird thing is that I 
     checked a couple of the regular 12-ounce bottles with the same 
     brew inside and carbonation seems to be normal. My 
     conclusion--the wine jug is just plain weak glass. No?
     
     On drying hops, I used our commercial dryer (named, maybe, 
     Harvest Time or something like that) with the setting at its 
     lowest (maybe 95 F?), and it seemed to work fine. But I'm looking 
     for an answer to Coyote's query--why dry em at all?

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Date: Mon, 05 Sep 94 09:50:00 BST
From: "LOWE, Stuart" <lowes at lishirl2.li.co.uk>
Subject: Perry recipe



I desperately need a recipe for a good perry.
I spent an enjoyable hour picking cider pears from
a friends tree, I now have about fifty pounds and need a
 recipe for either pure perry or cider-perry from
pressed juice.
I would also like advice on effectively extracting the juice
from the fruit. I do not have a fruit press
or a juicer. I am considering mincing the fruit through
a hand mincer (long winded), collecting the pulp and juice
and fermenting on the pulp for a few days then staining.
Also what type of yeast would people recommend, my local
HB shop has recommended champagne type yeast.
Do I need to use pectic enzyme as for winemaking?
Comments please public or private, as is the custom if
I get any good comments I will summarise.

Ta from the UK,
Stu

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Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 12:27:38 EST
From: mike.snyder at ccmail.GSFC.NASA.GOV
Subject: Yeast-starters and questions


I am a relatively new homebrewer, and with all this talk about yeast starters
and cultures I have a few questions/concerns.  First,  Let me briefly explain
what I have been doing brew wise.  I have used extracts with additional dry
malt for the first two batches.  I used the dry ale yeast which came with the
brew kit.  I made a starter using 1 cup 90 degree F tap water and one
tablespoon of corn sugar for both batches.  While I boiled (30-40 min,) I set
the glass scran wrapped measuring cup in a dark place.  After the wort cooled
and was poured vigorously into the fermenting vessel, I proceeded to pitch the
foaming yeast starter.  Using this method, I had vigorous fermentation within
12 hours.  The last batch I  brewed was an Irish Stout with extract, dry malt,
steeped gains and hop pellets.  This time rather than using the dry yeast
provided with the kit I decided to use Wyeast (Irish Stout, I cannot remember
the number.)  Anyway, I broke the inner seal and after the foil expanded to
well over an inch, I pitched the Wyeast into the 75 degree F brew.  It took
about 24 to 36 hours before fermentation was observed through the airlock.

I realize now (after reading the recent issues of HBD) that a starter should
have been made at least 24 hours prior to pitching the Wyeast.  But, I have
this burning question:  What difference does it make if the starter is made or
not?  The brew did eventually start to ferment.  Will this slow rate of
activity yield a poorer quality beer, or will it just take longer to ferment
out?  Will there be less alcohol in the final product?

Obviously I am a newbie and do not understand fully the characteristics of
yeast and the fermenting process.  Could someone out there please enlighten me? 
Any correspondence would be appreciated.  Yes, even flames - they make for an
interesting day!  

Thanks,
 

 Mike Snyder             |     oooooo        | "In heaven there is no beer,
 Systems Engineer        |    oooooooo       |  that's why we drink it here,
 Loral Aerosys           |   |        |---   |  and when we're gone from here,
 Seabrook, MD            |   | CHEERS |   |  |  our friends will be drinking
                         |   |        |  /   |  all the beer."
                         |   |________|/     |                      -Boondale

 Email: Mike.Snyder at ccmail.gsfc.nasa.gov

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Date: 6 Sep 1994 09:46:02 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer at ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Re Soft Copper Tube Bending

Hi Group,
Are we overlooking the obvious here in favor of the Alternative? You can buy
Tube Bending Springs at the hardware store that allow bending without kinking
or crushing. You insert the tube into the spring and bend. The spring coils
provide support for the walls so you get even loading. And they come in the
standard tubing sizes. Lets see, I think it was 8 or 12 bucks for a set of four
in each size. 1/4->3/4.
John Palmer 

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Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 14:06:00 PDT
From: "Lesko, David MRS" <DLESKO at usva5.dyncorp.com>
Subject: Heading agents

My question for the general wisdom is this:  Do heading agents have any 
impact on the carbonation of beer.  We tried a heading agent for the first 
time (why? I don't know. Just for fun?) when we bottled three weeks ago. Last 
night we tried a sample bottle and it was VERY carbonated.  We used the same 
amount of priming sugar we had for our first 10 or so batches (read novices). 
And just what is the theory behind the workings of a heading agent anyway?

                                                  TIA

                                                  Lesko
Brewing is as brewing does.


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Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 12:07:51 MDT
From: exabyte!smtplink!guym at uunet.uu.net
Subject: Re: Insulated brewpots


  Eric Speckman asks about cheap insulating material for his brewpot.  If you 
  take a daily newspaper, you already have your material.  Tape enough 
  together to go around your pot and fold it enough to ensure that it doesn't 
  hang down low enough to catch on fire.  You can even cut out slits for the 
  pot's handles which will also hold the paper in place.  You can usually use 
  it more than once and throw it in the recycling bin when you're done.  I've 
  used this method with good results for some time on my 4 gallon pot.  I 
  also insulate with newspaper on my partial mash batches.
  
  --
  Guy McConnell -- guym at exabyte.com
  "So barmaid bring a pitcher, another round of brew..."

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Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 14:07:29 MDT
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: Oops

Oops, it seems I had another brain cramp regarding the Maris Otter malt and
Crisp Maltings, sorry.  Anyway, I'm sure the Malt FAQ will straighten me
right out and I hope will add lots to a list like that.  Its always nice to
screw up right before leaving for a week.  "'Tis better to be quiet and let
people think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

I'm back from vacation building new brewing equipment.  When I get some time,
I'll report on my experiences building hot liquor tanks and mash tuns out of
kegs.  Until then, I have some catching up to do...

Cheers,
Norm npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com

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Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 14:21:11 -0600
From: Sean.Rooney at uic.edu (Sean Rooney)
Subject: water analysis

When you report a water analysis in HBD, please tell us what city it's for.
It could save someone alot of time/money/effort.  Most of the analyses
I've seen over the last year or so were missing this information.

Along that line, does anyone have a recent analysis for Chicago?


Sean Rooney
Department of Genetics
University of Illinois at Chicago

Sean.Rooney at uic.edu



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Date: Tuesday,  6 September 94 16:00:22 CST
From: Alan P Van Dyke <llapv at utxdp.dp.utexas.edu>
Subject: defending austinites/smokey beers

Howdy, all--

First, I'd like to defend a couple of Austinites that have been flamed recently
on the HBD.

I agree with Gregg Tennefoss that St Pat's is getting a bum deal.  Lots of
people out there have had their way flaming their services all summer.  I think
a response from St Pat's is very appropriate.  How would any of you out there
like it is someone trashed your homebrew on the HBD & you weren't allowed to
respond?  I know I'd be terribly pissed.

Now for the other Austinite.  Domenick Venezia implied that Paul Ingersoll
(aka Oakqm3...) lied about "clogging" the net.  "Oakqm3" is a gateway for
a part of Motorola, Inc, & about 1000 people have it as part of their e-mail
address.  As you can guess, Paul would not be the only homebrewer out there
interested in the HBD.  Paul gets the HBD from the listserv at Stanford.
Someone else, probably unknowingly, had subscribed to the HBD & caused the
problem.  I hosted a homebrewing party for several of these same people (my
wife works with them) & got many interested in homebrewing.  I think that
calling them inappropriate names on the net is not a great way to welcome
new hombrewers.

Besides, is it that big a problem?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Now to beer.  I had a homebrewed Scottish Ale just this weekend with peat
smoked malt, & I thought it was tasty.  He said it had about 2 oz in it.  He
(the homebewer) thought is was too much, though.  I had just swallowed a big
swallow of pepper beer, so who knows.

rprice of the Navy kinda ragged on smoke beers, suggesting Taj Mahal.  I've
tried Rogue's smoked ale (the exact name escapes me) & I found it quite
tasty.  Also, I've had a German one, but can't recall the name...

Happy brewing,

Alan of Austin

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Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 17:13:31 EDT
From: David Knight <dknight at ren.iterated.com>
Subject: Recipe Request: Spaten Oktoberfest


I am looking for a good all-grain recipe for a Maerzen/Oktoberfest lager
similar to Spaten Oktoberfest.  I will be doing a double decoction mash to
try and get that rich malty taste (along with using DeWolf Cosyn malts), but
I don't have a good recipe to start with.  Any help will be greatly
appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

 -Dave Knight
dknight at ren.iterated.com

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Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 15:13:01 -0600
From: grow at sumatra.mcae.stortek.com (Roger Grow)
Subject: Pepper Beer


Hey all!

I sent this directly to Sean, but I thought it might be
interesting to all...

Good day,

   Here is a recipe from the chillie-heads digest and one of mine.



- -------Quote---------


Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 10:33:37 EDT
From: scox at factset.com (Sean C. Cox)
Subject: Pepper beer and clarification

Greetings all,

        I've just tried a pepper beer I started a couple weeks ago, and I
noticed something unusual. It was amazingly clear. Clearer than any beer
I've ever made (I've been brewing, extract only, for about 4yrs). I didn't
use any finings of any sort, and it fermented (and aged) in a corner of my
non-airconditioned CT apartment (temps in the 70s-90s) for less than 3
weeks start to finish.
        The recipe follows:

        1 can (4lb)     Alexanders wheat malt
        1 can (1.4lb)   Alexanders pale malt kicker
        1oz             Cascades (boil)
        1/2 oz.         Cascades (finish)
        2               Scotch Bonnet peppers (habaneros) diced, frozen
                        (the only way I can stand to cut them, zow!)
        Winsor yeast    First time I tried this one. (Dry yeast, BTW).

        Boiled for about 45 minutes, added the peppers after the heat was
shut off.  Cooled by immersing the pot in ice water bath.  Piched yeast from
starter (about 20oz, made in Alexanders can).  Bottled in a week, aged about
two (maybe a day or two less).
        When I poured the first sample the other day is was clear, a lovely
amber color, but totally clear!  (It also has a nice mellow pepper finish :-9 )
It looked like it had been filtered or something, but there was a good
sedmient on the bottom, so I know there were yeast in there :-)

        Any ideas as to what might have done this?  Perhaps the capiscum(sp?)
in the peppers?  Maybe some really fine yeast?  I'd certainly like to be able
to replicate this clarity (esp. for a nice light amber beer!).
        
        -- Sean

- -----End Quote---------




The next recipe was an experiment that turned out pretty well,
but was kinda hot and pretty foamy (Ive heard about foam from
other people who use this process also, dont know what causes it.)

What I did was brew a batch of Killer Killians (my version) and
add one or two serrano peppers in about a dozen bottles. Next time 
I'll try 1/4, 1/2 and 1 pepper per bottle (2 was too hot). The odd
thing about this beer is finding a food to drink it with. Mexican
food is better with something to quench the hot, not add to it (in
my opinion). I'm still searching for the right combo. Here goes;

Beer: pick your favorite or try this;

8 lbs (or less, I was shooting for high o.g.) amber extract
1 lb 60l crystal
2 ounces, Northern Brewer hops
2 ounces, Cascade hops        
Edme dry ale yeast

Steep grains while water is heating (about 30 min), sparge and
remove when water boils.
Remove from heat and add extract, replace on heat, boil for 60 mins.
1 oz Northern Brewer hops 60 mins (whole time)
1 oz Northern Brewer hops 30 mins
1 oz Cascade hops 15 mins
1 oz Cascade hops last 5 mins or after heat is off.

cool, pitch, rack -n- stuff as normal, just add the peppers
to the bottles before filling.

I would recomend trying the pepper in a bottle thing with a small
number of bottles next time you brew. I used Corona bottles so you
could see the pepper inside, although the red serrano peppers faded
to a dull green with time (3 months).                    

One word of caution!!!!!  
Be careful with the Habanero peppers if you use them! They are the
hottest pepper in the world (the Savina Red variety of habanreo to  
be exact)!!!!!!


Hope this helps,

Roger (grow at sumatra.mcae.stortek.com)



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Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 15:08 CDT
From: MXPYP7.HQAMC at MHS.SAFB.AF.MIL (Schinelli, Capt Bruce)
Subject: Yeast use.

Hi all!

I've recently used my yeast slurry from a previous batch in my current 
batch, and have made decent beer.  I've also experienced very fast 
starts.  My methodology is, if I happen to be brewing around the time I'm 
racking to secondary or bottling, I save about a quart of the slurry off 
the bottom of the carboy in a sterile container, or just leave it in the 
carboy.  When the wort is at pitching temperature, I dump the container, 
or if its the same day, I just dump the bottom of the old carboy into the 
top of the new.  Typically, I get good activity within 2-4 hours and 
really active fermentations withing 12.  For example, I brewed a porter 
on 29 August using London Ale Wyeast (tm).  I experienced good activity 
in the primary, 1.054 OG down to 1.018 by 2 Sep, but did not need a 
blow-off in the primary.  On 3 Sep I brewed a Stout, and pitched yeast by 
dumping the old into the new.  I had activity in two hours and checked 
the next AM and found the air lock blown off the carboy (nice mess).

Now for my question:  what off flavors am I introducing to my next batch 
using this method?  I have been brewing stouts and porters, which could 
mask some off flavors.  Whats the prevailing wisdom?

Secondly, how do you save a Wyeast pack that you popped, but won't have 
time to use for several (4) days?

Thanks in advance,   Bruce



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Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 14:47:53 -0700
From: Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com>

Subject: Lesson learned in kegging

Well, the time had to come. After 100 batches of beer, mead, wine and sake,
I finally got the kegging system of your dreams. But I learned something that
wasn't in the kegging FAQ that I thought I would pass along to the alert
readership of the HBD.

I thought that my first experiments would be simple, kind of sneaking up on it.
Therefore, I chose force-pressurization of a soda pop extract as my first
attempt. (Actually, I rationalized the entire purchase by claiming the need
to take 'stuff' to a company picnic soon. I need to have kegged soda pop,
all the better to sneak kegged beer past the park rangers...) So I added
16 cups of cane sugar to each of two kegs, 4 gallons of hot water to each,
and a different soda pop extract to each. Shake back and forth for all I'm
worth (and we'll make that judgement soon...), pressurized, and put in
fridge. All the next day, I'm looking forward to tapping the
keg of root beer and ginger ale. Sweet tooth working overtime. However...

The next day, nothing. A little pffffft out of the spout, but nada else. Wha
happen? A quantity of sugar got blown up the out tube by the vapor pressure
of the hot water. It then crystalized inside the tube. A perfectly formed
sugar rock was all that stood between me and my sweet tooth's salvation.
Of course it took me a while to realize that this was the case. There was
a lot of wondering and head scratching before the light bulb came on. So
I got some stiff wire and reamed the thing out from both ends, and scraped
off syrup. Bingo. So I scraped some more, and some more, and a bit more
than that. Finally got the tube cleared. Had to do it again, as there were
two tubes between the two kegs. After all the blood, sweat, tears and sugar
had been shed, I got two empty tubes. Then I had to wait another day to get
pressurized. Sweet tooth denied. For a day...

Let that be a lesson to you all...
Rich Webb

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Date: 6 Sep 94 22:32:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: My comments/drying hops/egg drop soup/iodophor

Dennis writes:
>Al, shut up !!!! If this means our friendship, sorry. When it comes to 
>Zymurgy verses Brewing Techniques, your biased because of the tech 
>editing your doing. Both magazines have merits. 
> 
>I've seen inconsistancies in virtually every book and magazine published on 
>homebrewing. Why not attack Charlie on some of his techniques ? How about 
>Greg Noonan, or Dave Miller or even George Fix? Why not just reserve some of
>your comments to private E-Mail for the benefit of the Digest.

Now, now... there's not reason to get cranky.  I considered mentioning the
fact that I'm a technical editor for Zymurgy, but opted not to, because the
way I originally wrote it, it sounded like I was bragging.  In retrospect,
I could have rewritten that sentance as opposed to deleting it.

You will please note that we certainly agree that both magazines have merit
and my post said that I recommend subscribing to both when asked my opinion.

Regarding my defense of Zymurgy in the HBD, I feel it was perfectly valid
given that three posters had slammed it publicly.  I have pointed out
errors in Charlie's, Greg Noonan's and Dave Miller's books, in HBD and was
never flamed for it.  Why flame me now?  Perhaps you would like to post some
of the errors you found in George Fix's book?

Why *not* reserve my comments for private email?  If Norm and Ulick had
written to Zymurgy directly about some errors they felt were published,
in stead of making sweeping accusations about the quality of the magazine
in the HBD, then perhaps I would have been asked to respond to them via
private email.  Since they made a public post, I took it upon myself to
respond publicly also.  Everything I post is for the benefit of the readers
of the digest and I've spent great many hours helping people with their
problems via the HBD.  Sometimes, I send direct email, but when I feel that
the information would benefit the HBD membership, I post.  Perhaps I post
too much, but I'm passionate about brewing and beer, so I get carried away.
To me it's not just a hobby -- it's a passion.

Incidentally, I'm funding an experiment that's due to be published in Brewing
Techniques -- perhaps I should mention that too, just in case someone feels
I posted something biased in favor of BT?

***********
There have been a number of questions about drying hops and one
specifically about using a food dehydrator to dry hops.

I've used a food dehydrator (Ronco, if it matters) to dry hops ONCE.
I let them dry overnight (about 8 hours) and I feel that I overdried
them.  The hops seemed too "crispy."  I would recommend rotating trays
often and checking the hops after four hours.  Then hourly or more often.
Commercial hop kilns dry hops from about 80% moisture to about 8% moisture.
You could mark one tray, weigh the tray empty, weigh it with the freshly
picked hops on the tray and then keep weighing that one tray till the
hops have lost about 72% of their weight.

***********
Phil writes:
>Ever since I constructed my counterflow chiller I have been getting
>a great cold break. Unfortunately, I can't get the break to go away!
>This stuff which looks like egg drop soup will not settle any further 
>than the bottom 1/3 of my carboy.

I'm afraid that I'm a devoted immersion chiller user, so I don't have
experience separating the wort from the break with a counterflow.  One
reason that I like the immersion chiller is not needing to siphon that one
additional time to separate the wort from the break.  Perhaps you could
use one of those large funnels with the screen in the bottom.  I suspect
that you will have to stop the wort flow and dump the break out of the
funnel occasionally.  Hmmm... you may need to establish a filter bed (the
screen may not be enough) for which you can use some whole hops.  You
won't get the same amount of aroma from these hops as you would if you 
had the hop back (which is what this sort-of is) on the hot side of the
chiller, but that is before the cold break forms.  Sorry to be so speculative,
hopefully others with experience with this problem will give concrete
solutions.

**********
Tony asks about iodophor dilution.

I've used two brands of Iodophor (B.E.S.T. and B.T.F) and both recommend
the same dilution.  Other brands may be different.

For 12.5 ppm (sorry Tony), use 1/4 ounce per gallon.  I usually use 25 ppm,
or 1/2 ounce per gallon.  Using too much is not only a waste of money, but
causes the solution to foam excessively when agitated.

Al.

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Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 17:17:44 PDT
From: berkun at decwet.enet.dec.com
Subject: Hot Break Cold Break

Can someone please say more about exactly what Hot Break and Cold Break are?
Especially, I want to know what to do (or not do) about it.

When I boil, I get scum. Is this hot break?  Sometimes I scoop it off,
sometimes not

When I cool with my immersion cooler, I get some "stuff" settling to the 
bottom and the wort is more clear towards the top.  Is this stuff at the 
bottom cold break?  Should I attempt not to siphon this into the carboy?  
Right now pretty much everything goes...

I'll post a summary of anything I receive.

Thanks,

Ken B.

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Date: 5 Sep 1994 09:57:27 EST
From: haltstei <HALTSTEI at UMAB.UMD.EDU>
Subject:  Drying Orange Rind


When a recipe calls for dried orange peel, if there any particular method of
drying the rind other than removing it form the peel itself and letting it get
stale for a few days??

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Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 20:40:11 CDT
From: jhm at texmemsys.com (John McCaskill)
Subject: Safe glass


To make a long story short, I don't know if my five new
carboys are safe to use.

A friend of a friend of my in-laws got five carboys for me
dirt cheap in Mexico.  After everything was set in motion,
a friend at work asked "How do you know what has been in 
them?" 

When I got them they had no labels on them.
They have paint specks on them and they have that oil
slick rainbow look inside them.

I don't think I will use them out of fear of getting
something nasty in my beer or wine.  But I still
want to know how well you can clean glass that has
had unknown nasty stuff in it.

Don`t bother with "I would not risk MY health" messages,
paranoia will keep me from using them.  If you learn 
from you mistakes, I must be getting real smart.

John McCaskill

Home	mccask at mccaskill.com
Work	jhm at texmemsys.com

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1520, 09/07/94