FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Weizen Lauter Summary ("George A. Dietrich")
  worthless posts from lazy brewers (BREWS)
  RedBrick Press (Larry McCloskey)
  Habanero Beer Update/Fast bottle carb. (Dodger Posey)
  Bulk extracts/B-Brite as sanitizer?/Bad advice on cans/$$$/Crush (00bkpickeril)
  Brew Pubs in Portland, Oregon/San Fran. (David_Arnone)
  Re: Insulated brewpots (Spencer.W.Thomas)
  re Coors "Artic" Ice ("Joseph A. Lenzini")
  "classic" green bottles, competition announcement (uswlsrap)
  ...and here's the address I forgot to mention (uswlsrap)
  Re: Seperation of break material (Jim Busch)
  carboy caps (DrewStorms)
  Al will be Al (Ulick Stafford)
  Smoked Beer Competition (bickham)
  Fruit beer methods (Eugene Sonn)
  Samual Smith's Pale Ale (chris t durkin)
  Hoods / Boilovers / Cookers (Gordon Baldwin)
  Debate (npyle)
  Proteins, Amino Acids, Carbs and Enzymes (Ed Oriordan)
  Bad Address for Hack (BrewerBob)
  San Francisco Brewpubs (BrewerBob)
  copper wort chillers (Jason Sloan)
  Iodophor concentration (Mark Bellefeuille)
  Kegging gases (Matt_K)
  Re: Copper tubing bending tool. (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Automatic Sparger Summary (John Dodson)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 06 Sep 94 21:58:25 EDT
From: "George A. Dietrich" <74543.310 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Weizen Lauter Summary

Well it's been a couple of weeks since I put out the call for help with the set
mashes I encountered when lautering my 70/30 Hefe Weizens.

When last we looked in on George, the hapless brewer, he had just tossed out
three batches of weizen because the lauter mash was set so badly that nothing he
did would get them running again.

Thank you all for the many responses and just as many ideas about how to
overcome the problem I've encountered.  As promised here is a summary of the
suggestions I received.  I've listed them by the frequency each was suggested:

	#1. The most often suggested idea was to switch from my ZapPap to a
copper pipe manifold.  I didn't have the time to 	build a manifold but I
did go out and buy a Phils Phalse Bottom(tm) to replace the ZapPap.

	#2. Change my grain ratio from 70% wheat, 30% barley to something more
managable like 50/50.  Although a few of you 	did say that you had no trouble
with the 70/30 ratio.

	#3. Change the spacing of the rollers of my grain mill from .035" to .045
or .050".  This I did after I did an extraction 	experiment and found that
I didn't lose a significant amount of extraction at the wider setting.

	#4. Extend my 122F protein rest from 20 to 30 or 40 minutes.  I extended
my protein rest to 35 minutes.

	#5. Make sure that I mash out at 168-170 F.  This was already in the mash
schedule.

	#6. Keep the lauter temp as stable as possible at the sparging
temperature.  I've added foam insulation to the lauter tun 	and it holds the
heat better.

	#7. Try "re-mashing".  A British technique I guess.  It involves adding
boiling water to the lauter, stirring,  allowing the 	mash to settle again and
then proceeding.  

	#8. Underlet the mash with hot water to lift it off the false bottom.

	#9. Blow into the outflow tube.  Don't laugh, I tried this as a last
resort!

That's about it.  A lot of great suggestions from some great brewers who took
the time to try to help me out.  Now the sad ending.  I tried again last weekend
utilizing just about all of your suggestions with the exception of the copper
manifold and reducing the grain ratio from 70/30 (pride you know!).
Unfortunately the lauter stuck just as solidly as it did the first three trys.
(Yes, I even blew into the outflow tube :-)  I think that I'm going to hang up
all grain weizens for a while.  Next weekend I'll brew a nice easy Pilsner to
sooth my battered ego.  (And to restock my beer supply which is getting low)  I
think that the next time I try the weizen I'll make the grain ratio 50/50...but
not just now.

BTW I do have a confession.  After I threw out this last batch I ran out to the
brew supply shop, bought two, four pound cans of Alexanders 60/40 wheat/barley
extract and put together a batch of weizen from that.  I REALLY wanted some
weizen!  Please don't take this as any kind of slam against extract
brewing...that's where I started. ;-)  Thanks again.

George


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Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 22:20:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: BREWS at delphi.com
Subject: worthless posts from lazy brewers

I have a headache coming on from reading some of the drivel sent up here
continuously by lazy brewers who won't do their own legwork. I have feelings 
for those unfortunate souls without a clue as to where they made a mistake
in their brewing procedure but strongly suggest that they figure it out for
themselves... by brewing with another person who's in the area. Team up to
talk over the procedures and recipes before wasting our time here with
boorish questions over and over again? Get a life and do some research on
your own with other warm bodies instead of a computer terminal! Have a cold
beverage and let your brain release its hidden potential over some boiling
hop oils before asking questions about hop utilization. try to bring the
fruits of your labors to all of us here in the HBD instead of
Gimme,Gimme,Gimme. You can all use the keyboard , so try to generate some
advanced slothlike articles that would be of value to the group. I'm
particularly intrigued by the combination of potential here with
professionals from all areas of the globe. I hope it gets better soon or its 
off to another interest area. Contribute what you can and find the answers
to the simple stuff at your local level. Join a club ,go to a meeting and
get off this machine for a while and interact-face to face with your peers.
Then come back to us with some interesting anecdotes and some words with
socially redeeming value. Over?  

And while I'm at it , I need judges for the upcoming Maine HBC in November.
The competition is AHA sanctioned and open to all comers. Call Bill Giffin
 at 207 737-2015 for entry+judge forms. This is the 2nd leg of the New England
Homebrewer of the Year sortie. The Worts(Bill Murphy et al) and the Green Mt 
 .Mashers(Phil Kaszuba+ friends) are off to a big lead but there's 4 events
left. There'll be some serious festivities if we win ... or if we lose cuz
Kennebunkport is bringing beverages for the post event party. Other
breweries are threatening to have a hospitality suite that evening also and
theres always the salt air and fresh seafood in the Old Port to fill your
belly before its thru! There will also be a BJCP test the following day for
those with strong hearts and weak minds. Put it on your calender ....
Nov.12th-13th, Portland,Maine. Be there or be brewing. Also I'd like the
BURPers to call first before scheduling the next Belgian Conference so we
can attend also. We're sort of committed up here and the club would be upset 
if we scooted south for the weekend in Va. Regards and Don't Shoot The
Bearer of Bad News! Bruce P.Stevens - MALT Prez

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Date: 07 Sep 94 00:36:56 EDT
From: Larry McCloskey <74557.1102 at compuserve.com>
Subject: RedBrick Press

Thanks to Stephen Mallery at Brewing Techniques for sending me Jack
Erickson's address at RedBrick Press.

I've received a couple of requests for the information, so I'll 
post it here:

   Jack Erickson
   RedBrick Press
   P.O. Box 1895
   Sonoma, CA 95476

Larry McCloskey, 71041.476 at compuserve.com


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Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 01:46:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dodger Posey <dodger at quack.kfu.com>
Subject: Habanero Beer Update/Fast bottle carb.

6 or 8 weeks ago I posted a RFI regarding making a batch of 
Habanero Beer.  Most replies warned against using even small amounts,
and some said the bottles should be labelled accordingly so that 
health risks and unnecessary hurl are minimized.
    I eventually settled on Papzian's Propensity Pilsener Lager, 
to which I added, each to a six-pack at bottling, Jalapeno peppers,
fresh, cleaned but not sanitized and prepared as 1/4, 1/2, and whole,
directly to the bottle prior to capping. 

1/4--little to no pepper hot-ness, mild jalapeno flavor. Enjoyable
     even to someone who said "Pepper beer? Eeesh."
1/2--slight pepper hot-ness, medium jalapeno flavor. Very good.
Whole--Medium pepper hot-ness, not enough that I would consider "hot".
       Medium jalapeno flavor. The pepper was not opened or slit, just
       whole. Most Enjoyable.

I was suprised that they weren't hotter, though each pepper can vary.

I also bottled using Melinda's XXXtra Reserve Habanero Pepper Sauce!
     I used 1/4 tsp per bottle, and 1/2 tsp per bottle on 2 sixers.
     The 1/4 batch was hot. You must like pepper beer to enjoy it.
     The 1/2 tsp batch was *HOT*. You must keep a tissue handy to wipe
     your eyes. Very drinkable, but carefully.

Both batches were aged for a month at 65 deg. and were 5.6% alc.

On another note, I made a batch of simple honey beer for the cast
of a theater show I was hired to play drums for, called "Beehive!"
A six-week run was expected, so I made the brew middle of the second
week thinking "lotta time". Wrong. Run now 4 weeks. Oh oh. By the 
time it was bottled, I had 8 days till the closing cast party. 
What to do....<light bulb>....I placed a space heater in a small
room and watched the thermometer climb to 90 deg. Kept it there 24 hrs
a day till the nite before the beer was needed. (this was during July
in California, 90-95 deg. most of the month). The sample said "I'm done,
take me out of this damn oven". Result? Standing Ovation at the party.
Whew!  But now the remaining 2 sixers are tasting just a tiny bit different.
Not bad, but different. Going bad? who knows, they'll be finished by the 
weekend.        The Lesson-Ya gotta do watcha gotta do

dodger posey

- --------------Dodger Posey-----dodger at quack.kfu.com-------------


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Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 08:15:47 -0500 (EST)
From: 00bkpickeril at bsuvc.bsu.edu
Subject: Bulk extracts/B-Brite as sanitizer?/Bad advice on cans/$$$/Crush

Fellow Brewers,

I've been brewing for about 8 months, have been lurking here for about 
4 months, have read papazian cover to cover, and the past 2 issues of 
Zymurgy.  Still, I have some questions.  ;-)

Looking to cut costs, I have recently tried some "generic" malt extract
syrup from Wine Hobby USA.  The price was really quite good at
$1.50/lb.  I know that Papazian for one says that all extracts are NOT
the same quality, but I was  wondering what other extract brewers
thought of buying bulk extracts such as this.  Comments?  Is it best to
stick with name brand extracts?  What are your favorites and which do
you tend to avoid?

I felt that it would likely work quite well, probably because I have
had very good luck with all my beer to date--albeit only about 6
batches, I've not had any that were bad enough to poor out.  (All
*except* one batch--where I followed the directions on the label!--turned
out excellent.)  Anyway, I tried the batch that I made with the Wine
Hobby bulk extract at 18 days (13 in glass carboy w/ blow-by plus 5
days of bottle conditioning) and was NOT pleased with the result. 
Maybe I should just RDWHAHB, since it is still very young beer, but I
must say I am concerned. I followed the Bass Ale extract recipie in
CMII quite closely, only substituting 6lbs of the light WH bulk 
extract.

Also, for the first time, I used the dishwasher to sanitize the (clean)
 bottles.  I used electrosol (dish washing powder) in the first cycle,
and b-brite in the second cycle, normal wash, water heat, and heat dry.
 Some did not fit and I sanitized only with a soak in b brite and a
rinse.  In hindsight this was probably a mistake, since I am not
certain that b brite will work to sanitize.  Is it only a cleaner, not
suitable for sanitizing? Can't believe I didn't do a bleach wash, but
as I alluded to earlier, I suppose I may be a fit over confident due to
my past successes.  The b-brite tub says very little about what it is
intended to do, except that it removes beer stone or residue.

I've wondered recently why so many the canned malt extracts have
ridiculously  stupid advise on the label.  Do they really think that
their sales are helped by making brewing sound as easy as possible to
get that first sale, even though the brew that results will likely not
inspire anyone to continue?  Or, do they actually believe that it is
good practice to add a ton of (non boiled!) granulated sugar, hot tap
water, etc... to make one's brew?

BTW, I have found a discount liquor outlet with some homebrew supplies,
and  will probably buy all my extract there from now on.  I can get
Munton and Fison premium extract 3.3# for $7.50.  Do any of you know of
any mail order places that can compete with a price like that?

Finally, it is necessary to crush specialty grains like crystal malt?
Simple question, but I can't seem to find the answer.  Sometimes it's
explicitly stated to use crushed crystal for example, while at other
times recipies don't say.  Do I assume it is nearly always crushed?
I didn't crush it last time (first time!) I used it, and it didn't seem
to contribute that much.

Thanks in advance!

PS.  Sorry for the length of this--guess I've been putting off writing
for too long. 

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Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 09:39:01 EDT
From: David_Arnone at Warren.MentorG.com
Subject: Brew Pubs in Portland, Oregon/San Fran.


In late October (23rd - 27th) I will be attending a software conference
in Portland, Oregon.  I am interested in visiting as many brew pubs as
is possible.  Dinner will also be a necessity.  If anyone has a list of
Brew Pubs serving food and perhaps a list of events for the last week
in October, it will be greatly appreciated.  The conference will be in
downtown Protland.

Also, I will be wrapping the end of the week in San Francisco.  Any info
on SF is also greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Dave Arnone
dja at warren.mentorg.com

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Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 09:41:21 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Re: Insulated brewpots

Guy writes about insulating brewpots with newspaper.  DON'T DO THIS if
you have a GAS STOVE!  Maybe this is obvious, but it bears repeating, anyway.

=S

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Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 08:53:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph A. Lenzini" <jlenzini at mail.more.net>
Subject: re Coors "Artic" Ice

Rick asked about the spelling of Artic in Coors new ice beer.
The way I understand it, geographical locations cannot be copyrighted, 
trademarked, whatever... so Arctic was purposely spelled incorrectly.

Joe L.
  
jlenzini at more.net



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Date: Wed, 07 Sep 94 10:16:31 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: "classic" green bottles, competition announcement                

- ----------------------- Mail item text follows ---------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: "classic" green bottles, competition announcement

Radio ad I heard this morning: Rolling Rock ad proudly proclaims that it
doesn't come in those less expensive brown bottles, but instead in "the
classic green bottle." Maybe that explains the classic skunky flavour,
eh? Now I don't doubt that painted labels make the bottles more
expensive than those with mere paper labels, but they weren't talking
about that. I'll bottle in a few green ones if I'm short on those
"lesser" brown ones. For laughs, I even did a bottle of Imperial Stout
in a (clear) Samuel Smith's bottle, but I'll stick with the brown ones
as a rule, thankyouverymuch.

One place where we don't want to see your clear bottles or your ceramic
capped Grolsch bottles is the Eighth Annual November Classic, sponsored
by the Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild, November 19. We will be
judging in two categories, "This" and "That." Identify your intended
beer style, but enter in either category as you choose. Beers only--no
ciders or meads. Complete information and entry forms will be available
early in October, but now that the weather is getting cooler in some
parts of the country, start your brewing!!!

If you live in the region or will be travelling nearby, come on out and
help judge. We usually manage to make the post-judging time a pretty
decent social gathering. Let me know if you can make it.

For those of you who have entered our competitions before, we're going
to make a change for those who bring entries on the day of the event.
You can continue to do so, but we're asking that you register them at
least a week in advance. Fill out all the paperwork and send it in so it
can be entered on the database and we can have entry numbers assigned in
advance.

Cheers

Bob Paolino
Disoriented in Badgerspace

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Date: Wed, 07 Sep 94 10:22:12 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: ...and here's the address I forgot to mention                    

- ----------------------- Mail item text follows ---------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: ...and here's the address I forgot to mention

MHTG / P.O. Box 1365 / Madison, Wisconsin 53704

  If you call rather than write (email or snailmail) for forms, be sure
to leave your address if you get the answering machine. I'm not going to
give my phone number here, because either kind of mail is cheaper than a
long distance phone call for both of us, but the phone number is what
you're going to see in the AHA announcement, so I thought I'd advise at
least those who read hbd...

Bob Paolino
Disoriented in Badgerspace

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Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 10:40:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Seperation of break material

> Phil writes:
> >Ever since I constructed my counterflow chiller I have been getting
> >a great cold break. Unfortunately, I can't get the break to go away!
> >This stuff which looks like egg drop soup will not settle any further 
> >than the bottom 1/3 of my carboy.
> 

Algis responds:
> I'm afraid that I'm a devoted immersion chiller user, so I don't have
> experience separating the wort from the break with a counterflow.  One
> reason that I like the immersion chiller is not needing to siphon that one
> additional time to separate the wort from the break.  Perhaps you could
> use one of those large funnels with the screen in the bottom.  I suspect
> that you will have to stop the wort flow and dump the break out of the
> funnel occasionally.  Hmmm... you may need to establish a filter bed (the
> screen may not be enough) for which you can use some whole hops.  You
> won't get the same amount of aroma from these hops as you would if you 
> had the hop back (which is what this sort-of is) on the hot side of the
> chiller, but that is before the cold break forms.  Sorry to be so speculative,
> hopefully others with experience with this problem will give concrete
> solutions.

OK, Ill bite.  The main difference that Phil is dealing with between 
his use of an immersion and now a counterflow is that before, he was
able to combine hot and cold break in the kettle, and now he has a 
two stage process.  Often, when one transitions from a immersion to 
a counterflow, the chilling process is faster and more efficient and
thus precipitates a greater amount of break material than before.  Algis
is primarily a extract brewer, and as such has the benefit of the 
extract manufacturers trub removal already performed for him (at least
to a large extent).  Im guessing here that Phil is all grain, since 
copious amounts of cold break are formed when brewing all grain and 
using a good counterflow chiller.  So, what to do?  I suspect (on the
limb now) that what is happening is two fold, one: as stated above,
you are precipitating additional cold break than before, and two:
you may have some carryover of hot break from the kettle.  It depends
on the methods of bitter wort transfer, if you have some form of
screening material in the wort line/kettle and also use whole hops,
you should be fine (this is how I do it, perf sheet in the kettle as
a "hop back", boil hops above this, strain/pipeline bitter wort from
below this.  I also use copper/SS scrubbies in my pipeline/chiller 
adapter as an additional catch).  If you choose to use hop pellets,
than you need to be sure that the bitter wort outlet is above the 
hot break material.  Even with pellets, a hop back can be used quite
successfully to "strain" pellets and hot break.  Just be careful with
aeriation of bitter wort prior to chilling (a closed system is useful
in this case).  

Ok, so now we have a handle on the hot break issue.  What to do about
the cold break?  Well, not much, IMO.  Ron Barchet, who is brewmaster
at The Old Dominion Brewing Co in Ashburn , VA, wrote two excellent 
articles in BT, hot and cold trub.  There is not too much debate about 
the merits of hot break removal, it is generally accepted as essential 
to well made beer.  Cold break, on the other hand is a very contentious
issue.  European Lager brewers (primarily German, and this seems to
be where Miller gets a lot of his more anal opinions from) tend to
emphasize the importance of cold trub removal.  This kinda makes 
perfect sense, as European lagers tend to be crisp and delicate. US
and to a large degree British brewers seem to be much less concerned
about cold trub removal.  Part of this, no doubt, is due to a cost
consideration, for a pub or micro, cold trub removal is usually done
with a floatation tank (a dedicated vessal that holds chilled bitter
wort, O2 is injected into the wort as it enters the tank, this
effectively scrubs trub matter to the top of the tank, and after a
period of hours, the "brite" bitter wort is pumped out of the bottom,
leaving behind the foamy trub "top".)  Expert tasting panels have 
been known to prefer beer produced from wort that had cold trub 
removed.  This usually pertains to European lagers, and European
tasting panels.  One would have to take a large jump of faith to
apply these results to a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, where the flavors
are much less subtle.  

So, whats all this mean for us practical homebrewers?  I make ales,
and I use an open fermenter.  If you use a system like this, some
trub will be scrubbed to the top of the fermenter where it can 
be skimmed.  If you use a carboy and blowoff, then a similar result
will occur.  Trub left over will be covered by a yeast layer, and
if not disturbed (resist the urge to shake those carboys!), will
be left in the bottom.  If you are worried about producing the 
cleanest lagers in town, then some form of settling tank and/or
a floatation method may be desirable.  This is easier than it may
sound, since if you intend to brew world class lagers at home, you 
better have some form of O2 to inject/force into the chilled bitter
wort.  Another obvious choice is to rack the beer at an early stage,
say one to two weeks after pitch.  (yeah, this brings up the issue
of early racking prior to adequate diacetyl reduction by the yeast,
but if you use a fairly clean strain like 34/70, this is a non issue).

So, in summary, maximize hot trub removal, remove cold trub when
reasonable to do so, and if you make ales, dont bother. 

BTW, Algis, using a counterflow does not add another siphon step,
provided you do follow one of the above methods (other than in 
professional floatation tanks).  

Good brewing,
Jim Busch

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Date: Wed, 07 Sep 94 10:44:04 EDT
From: DrewStorms at aol.com
Subject: carboy caps

Has anyone had experience using the two-tubed, orange carboy caps with your
carboys inverted so that the yeast can be drained off the bottom without
racking?  It would involve a rigid tube inside, running to the top of the
carboy for offgassing, and a tube for draining.  It sounds enticing, but I
hesitate to trust my beers to a plastic cap on the *bottom* of a fermenter.

Hoppy brewing,
drew


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Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 10:22:34 -0500 (EST)
From: ulick at ulix.rad.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Al will be Al

It is a pity that Al wouldn't apply some of his recent fervour as a 
technical editor of Zymurgy to his posts here.  I mean Al, after admitting
you knew nothing about the egg drop soup from counter flow wort chiller
problem you had to waffle 
aimlessly about it.  The stuff is cold break.  You can forget about it
(American Brewing practice), or rack off it (German practice), but 
some will remain and be helpful for fermentation, and by the time you rack
to secondary it will have precipitated with the yeast (i.e. RDWHAHB).
I believe Dave Miller discussed it recently in his column in BT.

Al is very worried about people commenting on errors in
Zymurgy because he has been a technical editor for all of 2 issues, one of
which had the fucked up yeast table.  Admittedly, many of Zymurgy's
glaring errors are of an older vintage (Zymurgy is around 20 years old), and
it takes more than 2 issues (one of which had a fucked up yeast table) to
overcome that reputation.  Al wonders why I didn't inform Zymurgy?  Two
reasons - the magazine had already been printed and the most a comment will
get is an entry in the corrections page of the next issue, and two, the
errors are so obvious, that if I had made them I'd be a little pissed at
the forty second person telling me, so I assume they don't need to be informed.
I mean -3 deg C = - 20 deg F doesn't sneak by many people, especially when 
they say that beer will stay unfrozen till -20 F.  Surely we all know that 
this is not the case (unless our name indicates that we are prone to 
intemperate or immoderate indulgence of food and drink)?

Nevertheless, if Zymurgy now has a greater interest in technical editing, it 
may improve from the error point of view, so long as all the columns are 
checked.  The articles were not the major problem before in any case.  
Regular editing is important too, such as cross checking galleys, but I
am sure the AHA knows that too.  I subscribe to it anyway.  A few technical
errors are not going to change that.  The odd good article (and 
the reproduced Michael Jackson column and winner's circle) justifies my 
subscription.  I don't expect Zymurgy to be Brauwelt or anything like it.
__________________________________________________________________________
 'Heineken!?! ... F#$% that s at &* ...  | Ulick Stafford, Dept of Chem. Eng.  
    Pabst Blue Ribbon!'               | Notre Dame IN 46556
   http://ulix.rad.nd.edu/Ulick.html  |    Ulick.Stafford at nd.edu   


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Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 12:01:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: bickham at msc.cornell.edu
Subject: Smoked Beer Competition

Since we've been talking about smoked beers lately, it's time for an
early announcement about the AHA Club-Only Smoked Beer Competition to
be held next May.  The competition will be hosted by the Ithaca
Brewers Union, although we'll probably have to spread the judging
over a few days to keep our taste buds from getting shot.  The date is
pretty far away, but it sounds like a few iterations are generally needed 
to get the right level of smokiness.

In my own efforts to make a peat-smoked Scotch ale, I successfully smoked
2 lbs. of Belgian pilsner malt.  Contrary to the recommendations in
another postings last week, I used peat moss in a propane grill, with
a pouch made of heavy duty stainless steel screen to hold the grains.
Peat wood was recommended, but if peat moss is readily available and
comes in smaller chucks thatare easily sprinkled over the stones in
the propane grill.  As for propane not being appropriate - it burns
fairly cleanly, and if it's used to simply to heat up the peat until it
begins to smolder and burn on its own, it has no effect on the malt.

I smoked the grains for approximately 30 minutes, with a good stream of
smoke passing through the grain for most of the time.  I rotated the
pouch every 5 minutes or so to minimize uneven heating, but there was 
still a little toasting of the grains.  This is fine, since I probably
would have oven-toasted some grain if I brewed a normal Scotch ale.  After
cooling on a cookie sheet, the grains had a subtle smokiness that is
definitely similar to that found in Adelscot, a beer made in France
with peat-smoked malt.  I also picked up some smoke flavor from the
grain husks when chewing, and the starches inside had a slightly
deeper color than the base grain.  Since this will make up about 15%
of the grist, I expect the beer to have a minimal smokey character
which should blend well with the caramel and roasted maltiness from
pale ale malt and roast barley.

Good brewing,
		Scott
- -- 
========================================================================
Scott Bickham
bickham at msc.cornell.edu
=========================================================================

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Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 12:13:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eugene Sonn <eugene at sccs.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: Fruit beer methods

Hi to the HBD,
	I'm about to attempt my first fruit beer.  A wheat beer flavored 
with raspberries (frozen).  I am an extract, single stage fermenter, 
brewer and am confused about the many ways I have heard to add fruit.  
TNCJOHB says put them in to steep after the boil, but before cooling 
while others have told me to put it in the second stage of two stage 
fermentation.  I know I shouldn't boil the fruit, but does anyone have 
experience with both the above methods?  If so, please drop a quick line 
about which you found more effective.  Private e-mail is great, but post 
to the digest if you like.

Thank so much,

Eugene               eugene at sccs.swarthmore.edu

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Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 12:20:52 -0400
From: chris t durkin <ctdurk00 at mik.uky.edu>
Subject: Samual Smith's Pale Ale


     I am looking for a good recipe for Sam Smith's Pale Ale.  
     All grain (preferred) or extract.

     Thanks, Chris Durkin
     CTDURK00 at mik.uky.edu

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Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 09:35:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: gbaldw at zaphod.usin.com (Gordon Baldwin)
Subject: Hoods / Boilovers / Cookers


to Bob Jones and Micah:

I observed the same thing with the forced air hood on my brew pot. In my
old house the hood over the stove only had about 3 inches clearance, so
when the exhaust fan was on it created quite a flow of air accross the
top of the brew pot. I never had a problem with boil over. I had lots of
problems when I used my old brew pot which was shorter. Now in our new
house I have a little more clearance, but it is still low enough to
create an ok flow of air. I now start my boil during the sparge before
the pot is full and most of the break is done before it gets full. 

One way to combat boil overs, was brought up about 4 years ago in the
HBD. Fill one of those plant sprayers with water and as the pot starts
to boil over mist the hell out of the foam on top. Stops it quickly. 

To Brian Ellsworth about evil looking secondary.

Never toss out a batch of suspect beer until you can let it age a
little. I have had a couple of batches that I almost didn't bottle
because they looked and tasted off. Those batches have always turned out
fine. The old Red Star ale yeast did this to me a couple of times before
I went to liquid. It would createa lot of very fruity esters that would 
take a few weeks to mellow out.

Also I have been doing full mashes in my kitchen quite sucessfully now
for about 6 years, but with my current setup I am limited to 5 gallon
batches. Now my kids are getting old enough that I can watch them from the
garage, so I am looking to go to 10 gallon batches. I am probably going
to get a converted keg and a burner. I have Natural gas in the garage
and it would be convient to hook into that and not have to refill
propane all the time. Does anyone have any experience with changing a
propane burner over to natural gas?

I also have been disapointed with Zymurgy lately. The format change
about a year ago was not for the better. I also belong to the IBS and
get the New Brewer. They are produced by the same folks, but the layout
is much nicer. As for technical content I don't find much of interest in
Zymurgy any more. But that could be because I am reading the more
technical stuff and Zymurgy aims at a much lower level. 6 years ago it
seemed to have a much higher signal to noise ratio. I will have to pull
out my old issues and see. The old layout looked more professional
(after the first couple of years) than the present. I did send email to
Charlie Papazian after the change and he said it would improve, but I
have not seen any progress, except for the darkening of the type.
- -- 
Gordon Baldwin
gbaldw at usin.com
Olympia Washington

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Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 11:22:28 MDT
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: Debate

Alan P Van Dyke writes:

>I agree with Gregg Tennefoss that St Pat's is getting a bum deal.  Lots of
>people out there have had their way flaming their services all summer.  I
>think a response from St Pat's is very appropriate.  How would any of you

I don't think St. Pats is getting a bum deal at all.  Well, I agree that they
should be allowed to speak up for themselves; I have no problem with that.
OTOH, I don't think they've defended themselves very well.

 ...snipped paragraph about the Motorola gateway and bounced HBDs...

>Besides, is it that big a problem?

Well, I think it is a big enough problem to take some action on.  I also
think that Rob Gardner agrees, based on his new policy note.  As someone else
said, getting the HBD via email is a privilege.  There are other ways to get
it for folks whose mail tools can't handle it reliably.

**

Al K writes:

>Why *not* reserve my comments for private email?  If Norm and Ulick had
>written to Zymurgy directly about some errors they felt were published,
>in stead of making sweeping accusations about the quality of the magazine
>in the HBD, then perhaps I would have been asked to respond to them via
>private email.  Since they made a public post, I took it upon myself to
 ...and...
>the information would benefit the HBD membership, I post.  Perhaps I post
>too much, but I'm passionate about brewing and beer, so I get carried away.
>To me it's not just a hobby -- it's a passion.

I don't have a problem at all with Al's posts, on this or any other subject.
We all have our opinions and I think this forum can survive a lively debate.
My recent attacks on Zymurgy have everything to do with my passion for
brewing and my passion for excellence.  I rarely feel that the staff down
there are striving for excellence.  In private email, Al scolded me for
blaming Zymurgy for problems with Brewer's Publications.  He is right and
I'm probably blaming the wrong people, but the organization is such a bowl of
spaghetti that who can blame me?  Does anyone out there *really* know where
to draw the lines between AHA, AAB, BP, Zymurgy, IBS, and all their other
cliques?  The place occupies one office as far as I can tell, and it isn't
clear at all to me who's who.  To sum my feelings about Zymurgy:  when I
pick up an issue I spend an average of maybe 45 minutes on it.  There is
usually one good article, a handful of decent articles, and some more bad
articles.  I define "good" as interesting to me, accurate, well-done.
"Decent" is accurate but not interesting to me.  I would define "Bad" as just
fluff to fill pages.  It may be that as I gain brewing experience I expect
Zymurgy to grow with me.  If this is an unfair expectation, I apologize.

Cheers,
Norm npyle at hp7013.ecae.stortek.com

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Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 13:28:24 -0400
From: edo at marcam.com (Ed Oriordan)
Subject: Proteins, Amino Acids, Carbs and Enzymes

I have a few questions about proteins, carbohydrates and enzymes in barley.
I've read Papazian, Miller and Noonan and each throws a new piece into the
puzzle for me, sooo....
Are the following statments true or false or partly true?  Any help?

Unmalted barley contains proteins, carbs and enzymes.
Proteins are composed of amino acids.
There are 20 differnt amino acids.
Enzymes are proteins.
Enzymes can break down proteins.
One enzyme can only attack one type of protein structure (lock-key model).
Enzymes can break down carbohydrates. (???? If not what does)
Enzymes break proteins into shorter proteins and new enzymes.
Enzymes break carbohydrates into less complex sugars.
Malting breaks proteins, carbs and creates shorter proteins less complex sugars
  and new enzymes (where do the new enzymes come from?)
Acrospire growth is an indicator of how much the proteins and carbs have already
  been broken down.   
A 122F protein rest degrades medium chain proteins to short.
A 131F protein rest degrades long chain proteins to med. (seems backwards, but
  is correct I think)
Medium chain proteins are good for shelf life and head retention.
Short chain proteins are used as yeast nutrients.
Mashing further breaks down proteins (if rest used) and carbohydrates (into 
dextrines and maltose) that provide nutrients and food for yeast.

If anybody out there who has a better grip of biology can help I'd appreciate
it.  I will summarize to the digest.

Ed O'
edo at marcam.com

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Date: Wed, 07 Sep 94 16:00:02 EDT
From: BrewerBob at aol.com
Subject: Bad Address for Hack

A message to Edmund Hack (sorry for the use of the space) - 

I sent you what you requested but it bounced with an unknown address (Host
does not exist, it said). I verified it and it matched the return address on
your e-mail to me -  hack at 144c4-2.jsc.nasa.gov

Above entry tells it all. Sorry I couldn't reach you.

BrewerBob at aol.com


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Date: Wed, 07 Sep 94 16:00:12 EDT
From: BrewerBob at aol.com
Subject: San Francisco Brewpubs

Due to the many requests received via E-mail, I am 
taking the space here on HBD to provide a synopsis of
recommended brewpubs and micro breweries in the San
Francisco area, based on the replies received as a 
result of my query about a week ago.

The run down follows:

I asked if the Anchor tour was worth the time, having
been to at least six others already. Nearly everyone
replied that it was a great tour and well worth the
time, if only for the tasting alone. Reservations are
needed and the tours are daily at 2:00 PM.

I had 19 responses to my query, one of which contained
no text and two that asked for me to forward the
results and gave no recommendations. That leaves 16
"valid" advisories.

The top four favorites are:

1. Marin Brewing in Larkspur - Comments: Go there; best
in area; a good one; good; number two, don't miss it.
2. Pacific Coast Brewing Co. in Oakland - Comments:
Carries many other micros; recommend; highly recommend;
uses an extract base and makes some great beer; number
one. 
3. Gordon Biersh in several locations - SF said to be
best but any will do - Comments: Recommend; Beer quite
good, food good; good but busy; will do; a good one;
good lagers.
4. Tied House in Mountain View - Comments: Nice, sit
outside, beer and food good, service fair; highly
recommend, wonderful beer, great food; beer okay, try
fruit beer; personal favorite.

Others with more than one positive comment include:
Mendicino Brewing Co in Hopland (good)
Boulder Creek Brewery in Santa Cruz (good beer, good
food, worth the drive)
San Francisco Brewing Co (two said great and very good,
one said it sucked! Go figure!)
20 Tank in San Francisco (good and ok)

Single positive entries include:
Seabright Brewery in Santa Cruz (Adtos)
Front Street in Santa Cruz
Bison Brewing, Triple Rock and Jupiter in Berkeley
Hopland Brewery in Hopland
Dempsey's Ale House in Petaluma

To be avoided are:
Winchester Brewery in San Jose
San Francisco Brewing Co. (? - See above)

Others:
Buffalo Bill's in Hayward (Mixed comments - Great beer,
common grub, poor sanitation, not worth the time, just
to say you've been there, pumpkin ale, infected beer.
Most comments were negative on this one.
BrewerBob at aol.com   -  Bob Davis

Let's keep brewin' the good stuff!





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Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 16:02:21 -0400
From: aa3625 at freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu (Jason Sloan)
Subject: copper wort chillers



Instead of spending a lot of time bending copper tubing for my chiller
, I simply went to the hardware--lumberyard and picked up a coil of 
tubing.  I can't believe that the Lowe's lumber in Joplin MO is the
only place which sells pre-coiled copper!  It comes in a flat coil
which can easily be stretched to separate the coils from one another.
I have noticed other lumberyards in town which carry similar products.
The tubing comes in a variety of lengths and diameters so you can buy
amounts that suit your needs.  (My brew partner has a part time job at
an ice plant so we put a relatively small coil in a chest full of free
ice to get the wort to pitching temperatures in a matter of minutes.)
 ...Just a suggestion.

- --
Jason Sloan
sloan01?jason at cc01.mssc.edu or aa3625 at freenet.lorain.oberlin.edu
- ---Yo ho ho and a bucket of homebrew...

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Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 13:27:17 -0700
From: Mark Bellefeuille <mcb at mcdpxs.phx.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Iodophor concentration



Al says:
> For 12.5 ppm (sorry Tony), use 1/4 ounce per gallon.  I usually use 25 ppm,
> or 1/2 ounce per gallon.  Using too much is not only a waste of money, but
> causes the solution to foam excessively when agitated.
> 
> Al.

Okay I'll bite. From memory:
 (so I expect to get at least 2 corrections.:-)
In the Zymurgy special issue which discuss's sanitizing: 12.5 ppm is stated 
as the strength of Iodophor needed to sanitize without needing to be rinsed.
So if the object is not wasting money: why use 25 ppm? The rinse wastes
water as well as the Iodophor.

mark			                    mcb at phx.mcd.mot.com

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Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 17:00:22 edt
From: Matt_K at ceo.sts-systems.ca
Subject: Kegging gases

Message:
I am just about to go out and buy a kegging setup and noticed thet 
the markup charged by the homebrew supply shops in the area is close 
to 100%.  Being naturally cheap, I called some places which fill gas 
cylinders.  I wasw completely unprepared for the different gas mixes 
available for carbonating and pushing beer.  Should I go for plain 
food grade CO2 or is it better to use some "Beer mix" (CO2/Nitrogen 
combo)?  I'm not even sure how many different mixes there are.
 
Many thanks
 
Matt Koch
Matt_k at ceo.sts-systems.ca
 
P.S. No relation to Jim Koch.  Please reply via private e-mail and 
I'll post a summary.



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Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 16:17:26 PDT
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Copper tubing bending tool.

>>>>> "Lee" == Lee A Menegoni <lmenegoni at nectech.com> writes:

Lee> WHen I made my immersion chiller from a 50' coil of 3/8" OD soft
Lee> copper tubing I also purcahsed a bending tool for less than $2.
Lee> This tool is a foot long tightly coiled, flexible spring like
Lee> item whose inner diameter is the same as the tubing OD.  I have
Lee> seen them in sizes for 3/8" and 1/2" tubing at Home Depot.

Lee> I used this while wrapping the tubing around a 5 gallon soda keg
Lee> as a form and also used it to make a coiled manifold for a 10
Lee> gallon Gott mash tun, no kink in either.
 
If people are using soft refrigeration copper tubing, I don't see why
ther are any problems at all in bending it.  Sure, I have one of those
slinky type benders, but I never had to use it.  I made my wort
chiller as a three lobed affair, thanks to a great suggestion here in
the HBD, and each of the coils was bent into a 4" diameter loop.  I
had no trouble nor any kinks because I was bending around 4" sections
of pipes.  If you use some kind of form to bend around, no tools are
needed. 

dion

Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814     Email: hollen at megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer     Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

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Date: Wed,  7 Sep 94 09:45:00 -0700
From: john.dodson at cantina.com (John Dodson)
Subject: Automatic Sparger Summary


Several weeks ago I posted a query looking for information on an
'automatic' sparge ring (described as a copper ring with holes drilled
in the bottom and a float valve mounted in the middle, used for
'automatically' controlling sparge water flow to a grain bed).

I had quite a few requests on forwarding any information I might obtain
as a result of the post.  I am sorry to inform all that were interested,
that I did not recieve any information... either on a design or where
one might buy such a device. :-(  (Could be a market for such a
device?.. how about it Jack? ... EasyAutomaticSpargeRing(tm)?)

If _you_ know of any information on this device, please take a few
minutes and post... there are quite a few gadget nuts out there that
would like some information.  Thanks!

 ... john.dodson at cantina.com
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1521, 09/08/94