FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Demerara & turbinado...one last time (Matthew Sendbuehler)
  trub-free fermentation (Jeff Stampes)
  Cold Break (guyruth)
  Force carbonation (Pat Anderson)
  Yeast questions (mkropp)
  Pumpkin Ale recipe (MR_SPOCK)
  Plastic fermentation bucket and heat (EricT10)
  Lost Brewbud\Lactic Acid (GubGuy)
  Sam Adams Triple Bock, What to mash in? (In a bee hive I'm a sent you)
  Another Very Satisfied Customer (Gary Bell)
  TRUB VI RESULTS (MJL)
  starters/non-flocculent mutants/IBU calculations (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  Vinegar (Ectoplasm)
  Mega blowoff! (Ectoplasm)
  pumpkin, plastic, mead, DC, wheat (uswlsrap)
  Brewing Climate in C Springs? (Bill Kitch)
  Hops - AA determination (BrewerBob)
  continued (accidentally hit the send key prematurely) (uswlsrap)
  Cross-Country beerfest (Yeebot)
  CO2 empty already? (Lee Bollard)
  Top Ten List=noise ("Daniel F McConnell")
  More kegging questions... (Lee Bollard)
  Thermometer Alert! (Frank Longmore)
  Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #1535 (September 24, 1994) (Barkin)
  Re: Odd & Ends (Automagical Mail Responder)
  Re: homegrown hop update (Jim Ancona)
  Beer Chiller ? ("Terence McGravey {91942}")



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 10:51:38 +0059 (EDT)
From: Matthew Sendbuehler <sendbu at mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Subject: Demerara & turbinado...one last time


Spurred on by some e-mail suggesting that these two words really
mean the same thing, I did a *little* bit of research, and came 
up with the following:

'Demerara' is indeed a coarse, yellowish/golden cane sugar from
British Guiana.  AKA 'Demerara Crystals.'  Sources that go into
detail suggest that a particular process lends it distinctiveness.
(One mentions tretment with sulphuric acid.)

'Turbinado' comes up much less frequently in the sources, but
appears to be a generic term for a particular grade of refined
sugar.  It isn't raw sugar, but is considerably less refined
than the white stuff.  I would conclude that Demerara may be
a turbinado, but not all turbinados are Demerara. (I wonder if
the root of this word is the same as that of 'turbine', which
would suggest a reference to some aspect of the refining process?)

The bottom line (for me, anyway): if you don't mind using cane sugar 
in your beer, any 'true' brown sugar would be an improvement over
ultra-refined white sugar, and may even lend some character.


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Date: Fri, 23 Sep 94 17:00:59 MDT
From: jeff at neocad.com (Jeff Stampes)
Subject: trub-free fermentation


A few days ago I appealed to the HBD for help in keeping trub out of my

:?

(Whoops)  There was a brief discussion recently looking for ways to keep the
trub out of your fermenter . . . there was actually a fine method descibed
in a recent Zymurgy.  I don't recall the exact details, but as I remember
it involved building a very simple device for racking.  I think it called
for a copper scouring pad tied over the end of the racking cane, along with
a couple of other simple modifications.  Haven't tried it personally, but
look at back copies of Zymurgy and give it a shot!

Jeff

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Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 08:04:09 EST
From: guyruth at abq-ros.com
Subject: Cold Break


Four batches ago I switched my mash temperature program from single-step
to two-step.  I start at 140F for 30 minutes and then attempt to get up
to 158F for another 60 minutes, but have only been able to get to 156F.
Anyway, in all of the last four batches I have not had any cold break
appearing in my fermenters.  I use a counterflow wort chiller.  Can
anyone suggest a reason for this and whether it is good or bad that I'm
not getting any cold break.

Thanks in advance.  Guy (Albuquerque, NM)

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Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 06:59:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat Anderson <pata at connected.com>
Subject: Force carbonation

abaucom at fester.swales.com was asking about kegging...

Here is my standard info on force carbonation.

Here is the sequence:

1.  Sanitize the keg, purge the air with CO2, and rack the green beer over to 
the keg.  The beer going into the keg should be CLEAR - use gelatin finings 
in a second carboy.

2.  Determine the correct pressure for the temperature and desired 
carbonation level ("volumes" of CO2) from the chart.  CO2 dissolves more 
readily at lower temps, so you might want to chill, but I carbonate at cellar 
temp, usually 64^ F., and that works fine.

3.  Pressurize the gas line before attaching to keg - THIS IS IMPORTANT!! It 
keeps the beer from flowing backwards into your gas line.

4.  Agitate the keg for 5 - 10 minutes.  A good way to do this is to sit in a 
chair, and put the keg across your lap with the gas side UP.  Alternately 
raise each knee while listening to the long version of _American_Pie_.

5.  Put the keg in the fridge to cool and settle to let the foam subside.

6.  If you have any patience, leave the beer in the fridge for a week before 
drinking - but you don't have to...

7.  A pressure gauge/bleeder valve, used in conjunction with the chart, is 
very handy to monitor and adjust keg pressure to maintain correct carbonation 
level...

(Chart from Anton Verhulst, I don't know who originated it, but thanks!)

                      Volumes of CO2 desired
Temp   2.0  2.1  2.2  2.3  2.4  2.5  2.6  2.7  2.8  2.9  3.0

 32F   3.5  4.4  5.4  6.3  7.3  8.2  9.2 10.1 11.0 12.0 12.9
 34F   4.3  5.3  6.3  7.3  8.2  9.2 10.2 11.2 12.1 13.1 14.1
 36F   5.1  6.2  7.2  8.2  9.2 10.2 11.2 12.3 13.3 14.3 15.3
 38F   6.0  7.0  8.1  9.1 10.2 11.2 12.3 13.3 14.4 15.4 16.5
 40F   6.8  7.9  9.0 10.1 11.2 12.3 13.4 14.4 15.5 16.6 17.7
 42F   7.7  8.8 10.0 11.1 12.2 13.3 14.4 15.5 16.7 17.8 18.9
 44F   8.6  9.7 10.9 12.1 13.2 14.4 15.5 16.7 17.8 19.0 20.1
 46F   9.5 10.7 11.8 13.0 14.2 15.4 16.6 17.8 19.0 20.2 21.3
 48F  10.4 11.6 12.8 14.0 15.3 16.5 17.7 18.9 20.1 21.4 22.6
 50F  11.3 12.5 13.8 15.0 16.3 17.6 18.8 20.1 21.3 22.6 23.8
 52F  12.2 13.5 14.8 16.1 17.3 18.6 19.9 21.2 22.5 23.8 25.1
 54F  13.1 14.4 15.7 17.1 18.4 19.7 21.1 22.4 23.7 25.0 26.3
 56F  14.0 15.4 16.7 18.1 19.5 20.8 22.2 23.6 24.9 26.3 27.6
 58F  15.0 16.4 17.8 19.2 20.6 21.9 23.3 24.7 26.1 27.5 28.9
 60F  15.9 17.3 18.8 20.2 21.6 23.1 24.5 25.9 27.4 28.8 30.2
 62F  16.9 18.3 19.8 21.3 22.7 24.2 25.7 27.1 28.6 30.0 31.5
 64F  17.8 19.3 20.8 22.3 23.8 25.3 26.8 28.3 29.8 31.3 32.8
 66F  18.8 20.3 21.9 23.4 25.0 26.5 28.0 29.6 31.1 32.6 34.1
 68F  19.8 21.4 22.9 24.5 26.1 27.6 29.2 30.8 32.4 33.9 35.5
 70F  20.8 22.4 24.0 25.6 27.2 28.8 30.4 32.0 33.6 35.2 36.8
 72F  21.8 23.4 25.1 26.7 28.4 30.0 31.6 33.3 34.9 36.5 38.2
 74F  22.8 24.5 26.2 27.8 29.5 31.2 32.9 34.5 36.2 37.9 39.5
 76F  23.8 25.5 27.2 29.0 30.7 32.4 34.1 35.8 37.5 39.2 40.9
 78F  24.9 26.6 28.4 30.1 31.8 33.6 35.3 37.1 38.8 40.5 42.3
 80F  25.9 27.7 29.5 31.2 33.0 34.8 36.6 38.3 40.1 41.9 43.7

        Volumes of CO2:
        British style beers = 1.0 - 1.6
        Most other beers = 2.4 - 2.85
        High-carbonation beers = 2.85 - 2.95

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 13:37:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: mkropp at BIX.com
Subject: Yeast questions

This has little to do with actual brewing so those who don't like worthless
posts can feel free to skip to the next one.

A question came up about yeasts in general.  What are the basic differences
between the different types of yeasts (baking, the stuff we use, and the
"brewers" yeast that many use as a dietary supplemen)?

Could you make bread with "brewing" yeast?  Do they all have the same the
same B vitamins as "brewers" yeast?  Inquring minds want to know.

/\/\ike

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Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 15:14:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: MR_SPOCK at delphi.com
Subject: Pumpkin Ale recipe

A couple of people have posted with questions about pumpkin ale.
Here is a basic how-to I posted to rec.crafts.brewing.--- RM --




Well, It took me alot of searching but I finally found a recipe for Pumpkin
Ale. I got it from the October '93 issue of Ale Street News. (Good thing I
save such things) Here is what the article had to say :
        10lbs 2-row malt
        1lb crystal malt
        20oz Pumpkin
        3.5 oz Herzbruker Hops
        water
        gypsum
        0.5oz cascade hops
        a healthy yeast starter solution (Wyeast 1056)

NOTE ** BE SURE THE PUMKIN YOU BUY IS PIE MAKING PUMPKIN AND
     ** NOT "COW or CARVING PUMPKIN!!! The jack-o-lantern and
     ** cow style are bitter and not that pleasent to eat.
METHOD:
 1. Peel the skin off and core 2lbs of pumpkin.
 2. Boil in 2 gallons water for 20 min. and save water for mashing.
 3. Take 20oz of pumpkin and  puree in a blender.
 4. Add the puree in alternating layers in your mash. 1 layer of grain -
    1 layer of puree then mash water (at 162). Adjust the mash temperature
    to 150 degrees and hold for 1hour or until starch is converted.
 5. sparge with enough water to collect your usual amount (5-6gal)
 6. Boil with 1 oz Hersbruker for 80min. Add 1.5oz for 30min. Add the Cascade
    for 10min. Add the remaining hops at the last minute.
 7. strain out hops and chill to 75degrees. 
 8. Pitch yeast and ferment for 3 days.
 9. Rack off to secondary for 3 weeks.
 10. Bottle anytime thereafter with 3/4 cup corn sugar.
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Note: The above is not my recipe but when I brew this beer I will use Irish
       moss and my hop schedule will not have so much late addition hops. I
       don't want the hop flavor or aroma to overpower the pumpkin. Have fun!
 --------------------------------------------------------------------- RM ---
 
 
 
 
 
  

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Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 15:18:08 EDT
From: EricT10 at aol.com
Subject: Plastic fermentation bucket and heat

I am a novice brewer and would appreciate some wisdom from those of you who
know much more about brewing than I. So far every one of my first five brews
have tasted fantastic to my friends and me and I enjoy the process of
creating my own fine brews. 

I live in a rural setting and have my own well,the water from which is very
hard (calcium) and contains much iron. I filter the unsoftened water through
one large inline and one faucet mount carbon filters and it then tastes just
fine. I boil all the water I use for the brewing process to settle out what
remaining minerals I can. 

Recently, to speed the cooling of the wort, I have begun to boil three
gallons the day before I boil my wort so that it can cool overnight. I put
those three gallons into my sanitized (with Chempro SDP) 5 gallon plastic
fermentation bucket and put the airlock in place to prevent overnight
contamination. I worry that the boiling water temperatures could leach
harmful or bad tasting chemicals from the plastic into my water. 

Would I be better off letting the water cool in my stainless steel brew pot?
Or would that be inviting in foreign yeasts, etc? 

Should I use the water that goes through my water softener and is much
"softer" but worse tasting? 

Should I just "relax and have a homebrew?" Thanks in advance for any words of
wisdom. And thanks to whoever maintains this forum.

Eric Thompson
Galesville, WI
erict10 at aol.com
ethompso at uwlax.edu



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Date: Sat, 24 Sep 94 15:33:47 EDT
From: GubGuy at aol.com
Subject: Lost Brewbud\Lactic Acid

I've lost track of an old brewing buddy of mine.  Name:  John Griffith.  Last
seen:  Portland, OR.  Activities:  Brewing & entering brewing competitions.
 If anyone knows the whereabouts of John, please email.

Lactic Acid:  In my attempt to brew an authentic Belgian White,  many sources
have suggested using small amounts of Lactic Acid.  Upon trying to obtain
some, I ran into a bit of trouble.  The local pharmacist can get it for me,
but at outrageous prices.  I called every pharmacy in my local calling area
and probably 5 long distance before I found one that had Lactic Acid in
stock.  Anyone know a good source for this stuff?  I can't be the only one
who has had this much trouble finding  it.  I guess the moral is: If you need
Lactic Acid for your beer, better expect to look long and hard.  (There was
suggestions to maybe try a chemical supply house for it; none available in my
area and mail order is VERY expensive for chemicals, at least in my neck of
the woods).  So, just wondering if anyone else has had this experience and if
so where they finally found it.

TIA,

GubGuy at aol.com                                  
 -Ray Ownby-                 

 Ninc est Bibendum (Latin; "Now is the time to drink")


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Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 18:17:44 -0500 (EST)
From: In a bee hive I'm a sent you <STU_GJCARRIE at VAX1.ACS.JMU.EDU>
Subject: Sam Adams Triple Bock, What to mash in?

Is Sam Adams outrageously expensive Triple Bock out yet?  Anyone tried it? 
Worth the money?  I know I'll buy at least one just to see, but I was
interested in any opinions anyone has.

Also, is there any consensus as to which is the best device for mashing?  A
large brewpot or modified cooler?  Are there any companies that produce a good
modified cooler type thing or a lautering tun?  My homebrew store does not.

Finally, is there any way to find out about local competitions?  I have not
been brewing long and am very impressed with my beer, but I am still curious as
to what aspects of brewing I should be working on.  Thanks for any info.

Gregg

*********************** We gotta get on the road *****************************
*    Gregg Carrier        (aka Uncle Zany, the guy in the floppy green hat)  *
*    332 Old S. High St.              stu_gjcarrie at vax1.acs.jmu.edu          *
*    Harrisonburg, VA  22801          (703) 434-8214                         *
*************************** Destiny Unbound **********************************

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Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 18:53:23 -0700
From: gbell at ix.netcom.com (Gary Bell)
Subject: Another Very Satisfied Customer

Jack Skeels <0004310587 at mcimail.com> wrote:

>I've just had yet another great experience with certain mail-order homebrew
>upplies shop, Brewer's Resource of Camarillo CA.  I won't waste any
>bandwidth with the details of the pleasure-causing support and assistance
>that they provided, past OR present, but I do want to let y'all know that
>these folks do a great job.  I've tried many, and read 20+ catalogs, and
>they are the best.  Phone (800) 827-3983.  No connection, just a very
>satisfied customer.

Same here! Very helpful, great catalog, and the prices are the best
that I've found - often by as much as 30%. 

Gary Bell, Lake Elsinore, CA
"Quis dolor cui dolium!"
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Sat, 24 Sep 1994 22:51:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: MJL at UNCVX1.OIT.UNC.EDU
Subject: TRUB VI RESULTS

Here are the results of the TRUB VI Open, Durham, NC.  My apologies for the
week delay in this posting.  I was not the official organizer.  

Results of TRUB OPEN VI
September 17, 1994
115 Entries Judged

English Pale Ales
7 entries
(5a,b)
Brian Cronk - First Place
Ed Wolf/Carol Ligouri - Second Place
Tom Werdegarner - Third Place

American Hoppy Beers
11 entries
(6a, 23a)
Tom Wedegarner - First Place
Tom Wedegarner - Second Place
Mark Mosley - Third Place

Lighter Ales
14 entries
(7a,b,c,8a,b,c,18b)
Bob & Linda Heckman - First Place
Bob & Linda Heckman - Second Place
Bruce Pitner - Third Place

Darker Ales
9 entries
(4a,b,c,9a,b)
Bruce Pitner - First Place
Jim Carroll - Second Place
Ronald Raike - Third Place

Stouts
14 entries
(11a,b,c)
Bruce Pitner - First Place
Porter Dickerman - Second Place
Ed Wolf/Carol Ligouri - Third Place

Strong Beers
10 entries
(1a,10a,b,11d,12c,d)
Mike Lelivelt - First Place
Jim Carroll - Second Place
Roman Davis - Third Place

Ligher Lagers
8 entries
(14a,b,15a,b,16a,b,c,d,e)
Kevin Hardee - First Place
Bob & Linda Heckman - Second Place
A. J. Delange - Third Place

Darker German Beers
12 entries
(12a,b,13a,b,16f,17a,b,18a)
A. J. Delange - First Place
Mike Lelivelt - Second Place
Mike Lelivelt - Third Place

Belgians
9 entries
(2a,b,c,d,e,f,g,3a,b,c)
Kevin Hardee - First Place
Ed Wolf/Carol Ligouri - Second Place
Fred Hardy - Third Place

Specialty
9 entries
(19a,b,20a,b,21a,b,22a,b,c)
Ed Westemeier - First Place
Craig Pepin - Second Place
Craig Pepin - Third Place

Wheats
8 entries
(6b, 24a,b,c,e)
Mike Lelivelt - First Place
Scott Bickham - Second Place
Ed Wolf/Carol Ligouri - Third Place

Meads
4 entries
Brian Towey - First Place
Keith Houck - Second Place
Andy Kagan - Third Place

Best of Show - Mike Lelivelt - Strong Scotch Ale
Best of Show, Runner Up - Kevin Hardee - Son of Christmas Light (Cream Ale)


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Date: 23 Sep 94 22:14:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: starters/non-flocculent mutants/IBU calculations

Bob writes:
> I have another issue which is bothering me a bit. I have been using liquid 
> yeast now for the last 4 batches but I never get a real active fermentation. 
> Recently I read that I should always use a starter with liquid yeast. I 
> haven't done this yet. Should I be doing it and what is the best method of 
> doing a starter? BTW, the beer comes out great but maybe it could be better...

I could not reach Bob either.  This is the exact type of question that should
be answered by the Yeast FAQ.  I've already sent Patrick some things on this
topic, so perhaps the next revision of the FAQ will answer this question better.

In the meantime, the bottom line is that while you can brew a good beer with
Wyeast without using a starter, you are asking for trouble.  Two things that
can happen when you underpitch are 1) infection and 2) high final gravities.

What I do is use a 1 liter starter (1.030, unhopped wort) for 5 gallon ale
batches and a 2 liter starter for 5 gallon lager or high-gravity batches.
Basically, you want to make a small batch of wort, cool it, aerate it and
then pitch your yeast into it.  The airlock on a starter is not going to be
as fast-moving as one on a 5gallon fermenter -- consider the difference in
size!  Also, with a 1.030 wort, you won't get the kind of kraeusen you would
expect with 5gallons of 1.050 wort.  Keep this starter at 70F or so till
it ferments out.  Yes, that's right, ferments out.  Pitching at high-kraeusen
as is written in many books is NOT the best time to pitch.  You can then
pour off the spent wort if you wish and pitch the yeast.  Don't wait too many
days after the yeast has fallen out of solution in the starter or they will
begin to autolyse.  I try to use the yeast within 3 or 4 days of the yeast
falling out of solution.

********
Seth writes:
>Aside from serving as a
>preservative, is there any reason to add hops?

There have been some that suggest that it's best to start the yeast in a
media that is similar to the wort that they will be fermenting.  Personally,
I don't hop my starters.

>Also, does it matter what kind of malt extract I use:  light, medium, or 
>dark?

I use M&F light.  I think that it probably doesn't make much difference, but
perhaps the acidity of the starter may go up as the extract gets darker.  Still,
I don't know if this matters at all.

******
Rich writes (quoting Glenn):
>>I've been re-pitching yeast from the primary for the last 10 batches or so
>>and have noticed that the yeast starts to lose it's ability to floculate
>>after about 3 successive re-pitches. I've noticed this with 1007 and 1056
>>and was wondering if this was a mutative quality or just due to the fact
>>that my initial pitching volume was larger with each batch.
>
>Where are you harvesting the yeast?  If you are saving the sediment from
>the primary, I would expect the opposite to happen, I.E.  You get a high
>flocculator.  It is possible that the yeast has mutated, but that usually
>results in off flavors as well.

Not necessarily.  If the wort was high in gravity, the alcohol can cause
the yeast to mutate.  This is the exact reason that Sierra Nevada doesn't
harvest yeast from their Celebration Ale or Bigfoot Barleywine.  I seem to
recall that one of the problems they encountered was flocculation problems.
There is some stuff on this in back issues of HBD.

>>the 3rd batch generally had to be dosed with PVP to get the yeast out
>>of suspension.
>
>PVP removes protiens that cause chill haze.  Yeast can be removed with
>gelatin or insinglass.

PVP (aka Polyclar) removes tannins, not proteins, and will help yeast
settle, but it's correct that gelatin or isinglass (watch spelling) are
better suited for fining yeast out.

**********
Rich writes:
>Hop pellets are generally more bittering or more effcient than whole hops 
>by weight.
>
>If the above statement is true then a concern arises with IBU calulations.
>
>Are IBU calulations based on whole hops?  If so, the additional bittering 
>power of pellets are not taken into account and therefore IBU calulations 
>made on recipes using pellets are incorrect.

I believe that Ragers formulas were based upon pellets.  I've tested beers
at Siebel that were made based upon Rager's formulas and this is what I
can say for MY setup:

pellets, 5-gallon, high-gravity boil, hop bag, a 40IBU target, using Rager's
formulas PLUS 10% (for the grain bag), non-blowoff, resulted in a beer
measured at 41.5 IBUs.

>Whatcha think?

I think I would add 10% if I were using whole hops in place of pellets, but
this is just an estimation -- I would do taste-tests to determine the right %.
Note, that although more optimistic than Rager's formulas, Randy Mosher's
formulas (specifically his Hop-Go-Round) *DO* have separate scales for pellets
and whole hops.

Al.

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Date: Sun, 25 Sep 1994 16:04:03 +0930 (CST)
From: zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au (Ectoplasm)
Subject: Vinegar

Howdy HBD dudes...

I have been brewing out of control for most of the year (352 L since April)
and am starting to run out of storage space for beer, even considering my
consumption rate.  So I was thinking of maybe brewing up some spiced or
fruit vinegar, to consume & give to gourmet friends etc.  So does anyone
know how vinegars (e.g. malt vinegar, balsamic vinegar) are produced?  I
assume, since wine and cider vinegars are made from grape juice and cider,
that malt vinegar is made from some beer-wort-like starting point.
Any ideas, collective wisdom?  Beerserk,

Zoz
- --
                            zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au
                      http://www.cs.adelaide.edu.au/~zoz/

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Date: Sun, 25 Sep 1994 21:26:25 +0930 (CST)
From: zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au (Ectoplasm)
Subject: Mega blowoff!

Hi again HBDudes -

Today I experienced my first blowoff (phwoar! eh readers?!)  Both my 20L
extract-based cream stout and my 44L extract-based pale ale went absolutely
ballistic, shooting foam through my airlocks, out from under the lids and
generally all over the place.  It is my first blowoff of any sort in 14
batches.  The 44L batch is in a 60L keg, so that's a fair bit of foam!
The 20L fermenter was bulging like it was about to explode! (blocked airlock).
So I was wondering, if I give you a bit of background, if anyone can tell
me what, if anything, I have done wrong!

OK, I'm gonna let you into my deep dark spine-chilling secret.  I am a very
naughty boy.  That's right, I never boil my wort, and in fact have never done
so, even for partial mashes, extra hops, whatever.  I never felt the need
to do so, 'cause I made beer that I liked to drink without doing so.  But
when I brewed last night, I was brewing such a pair of simple kit recipes
that I decided I wasn't wasting enough time on my brewing without doing
partial mashes etc., so I thought I'd give boiling a try to see if it made
my beer appreciably better.  Well, I don't have the equipment to do a full
boil (much less chill it afterwards), so I dissolved the extracts etc. in
8L of water (my biggest pot) and started heating it up.  I added marbles
to act as boiling chips and kept stirring it as I heated it, but as I was
doing so I started to think about the friend of mine who boiled his wort
for the first time and ended up with toffee-flavoured beer, and then I
started to get real paranoid and began smelling toffee every 5 seconds, so
I lost my nerve and dumped everything into the fermenter.  Some hot break
had definitely formed, though.  And of course it ended up in the fermenter
along with everything else... (including marbles, but I fished them out with
my stirrer).  So, dudes, the questions:

1) Is getting the wort real hot but not boiling it a bad thing?  Did it
   cause the massive blowoff? (must have, 2 unbelievably huge blowoffs
   at the same time, for the first time, is too much of a coincidence).
2) What nasty effects can I expect from dumping hot break in the fermenter?
3) What's the best way to avoid wort caramelisation?  Slow heat to boil/
   fast heat to boil?  (For the record, I had the gas burner on full until
   I got the jitters).

Sorry for the all-question post [again], but I've posted a couple of answers
in the past so I hope my average isn't too bad ;)  Beerserk [blowoff],

Zoz
- --
                            zoz at cs.adelaide.edu.au
                      http://www.cs.adelaide.edu.au/~zoz/

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Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 13:59:43 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: pumpkin, plastic, mead, DC, wheat                                

- ----------------------- Mail item text follows ---------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: pumpkin, plastic, mead, DC, wheat

Tom Pratt asks about adding pumpkin to secondary for a "seasonal twist":

- ---You'll probably get all kinds of different advice about pumpkin
beers, or at least I did when I thought about making one last year. Use
less hops, use more hops; use fresh, use canned; have to mash, don't
have to mash; et cetera... One thing that was never suggested to me was
the idea of adding it to secondary, and I'm not sure why you would want
to. If you're thinking of the pumpkin as a "fruit," and are thinking of
adding it to secondary because that's the way some people do fruit beers
(I don't, I steep at the end of the boil), I'd advise not to. Pumpkin
itself has rather little flavour. Pumpkin beers will have that "pumpkin
pie" taste from the spices, not really from the pumpkin. If you want to
add something to secondary, add the spices (sparingly!) and save
yourself the hassle of dealing with the pumpkin. (It can be messy and
you also lose a lot of volume, so brew more in anticipation of that.)
The pumpkin itself will add c olour and affect the mouthfeel.

Bob Paolino
Disoriented in Badgerspace

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Date: Sun, 25 Sep 1994 13:00:41 -0500
From: kitchwa at mail.utexas.edu (Bill Kitch)
Subject: Brewing Climate in C Springs?

Am moving soon to Colorado Springs.  Would like some advanced info on
the brewing climate there.  Are the good suppliers?  Is there an active club?
Any mirco/brewpub in town?

email please: kitchwa at mail.utexas.edu

TIA, WAK


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Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 14:08:26 EDT
From: BrewerBob at aol.com
Subject: Hops - AA determination

A hops Question - 

Is there an easy "at home" way to determine the AA percentage of hops?

On our last morning in Yosemite (Wowona Lodge to be specific, in case anyone
should be familar with it), my wife and I aquired several ounces of fresh,
"ripe" hops from the vines growing up the porches of the lodge. We had seen
them earlier but decided not to "steal" any, thinking the owners may be
homebrewers and get upset if we took some of their hops. There were at least
fifty vines.

However, as we were packing the car to leave, the gardner was tearing them
down and cutting them off at the roots! He said they would start turning
brown soon and he just needed to get them out of the way. He told us to help
ourselves, which we did. He didn't know what kind they were.

My problem now is how to use them. If I knew what kind they were, it would
help, but I don't. To use them for bittering would be tricky unless I have
some idea of the AA. They have a great smell and they taste like they might
be relatively high in AA but I really don't know, not having eaten many hops
off the vine.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Email is fine if you feel the info is
not of interest to the multitudes. I will, of course, name the brew after
Yosemite or Wawona or both.

Thank you.   -   BrewerBob at aol.com

My "Brewpub Report" will follow in a day or two.


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Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 15:13:05 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: continued (accidentally hit the send key prematurely)            

- ----------------------- Mail item text follows ---------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: continued (accidentally hit the send key prematurely)
Continued after premature send....

The pumpkin will provide colour and a fuller mouthfeel. I've added the
pumpkin in mid-boil (finally got around to addressing the "when"
question) As for hopping, I was convinced to go with _more_ hops than
for a standard pale ale (not more than for an IPA, of course :-) )
because I felt the argument that you need the hops to balance the extra
sweetness more compelling than the argument that you should hop lightly
to let the pumpkin come through. Besides, I like hops!BTW, that pumpkin
brew took a BOS even though it was young, and the spices have rounded
out nicely for an even better brew since then. I wish I had more of it
(the volume of my 5-gallon batch went to about 3-3.5 after racking and
bottling) I don't claim expert status, this is just what worked for me,
and I'd be interested in hearing more as I prepare to brew this year's
pumpkin ale.

"Dave in Sydney" speaks out for plastic!

- --I now confess to the hbd, as I have to others face-to-face, I use
plastic and make no apology. Dave stated all the advantages and refuted
the criticisms quite well! The key is being careful about cleaning and
storing your plastic equipment. I live in an apartment, and my water
sources are the bathtub and sinks. I don't have a big basement work tub
(or a basement) to fill carboys for sanitising, and I don't feel like
redoing and undoing the hardware to be able to put a hose on the kitchen
sink. I thought about a carboy for secondary, and even bought one,
thinking that a 5 gallon one (too small for primary, but would be okay
for secondary) might fit under the bathtub faucet--no, it didn't quite
make it. (BTW, for the person who suggested taking a drinking water one
for the $6 deposit, I wonder how those who have raised the question of
keg theft-for-deposit would respond. Spare yourself the ethical dilemma
and seek out a Corning outlet store, where the 5 gallon carboys are
$9-10.) Sanitation and rinsing is easy, ( and if it's easy, it's more
likely that you'll do it thoroughly), they're easier to handle, they're
less risky, et cetera. Here's something that Dave didn't mention. It's
easier to aerate your wort simply and cheaply. You don't have to try to
shake a heavy carboy around and you don't have to come up with
elabourate gadgetry. I boil my egg whisk (the kind of hand egg beater
without the crank) to sanitise it and use it to aerate. You can't fit
one of those through the neck of a carboy. I know that "serious" brewers
turn up their noses at plastic, but I like the convenience (and safety),
and brew only ales, so the question of extended storage isn't an issue
for me.

- --On a lighter note. The reference to mead (or meade?) reminds me of
something I saw the other evening. I'm a member of the municipal band
here in Madison, and we were reading a piece that stated it was
commissioned by the Kansas Music Education Association (or was it
administrators?) District I. K-MEAD must be a honey of an organisation
:-).

Aaron Banerjee asks if there are any brewers in the DC area:

- --Before he gets flamed for making what on the surface appears to be an
obvious question of fact, let me mention my experience. When I was new






at all this and preparing to move from grad school in Minnesota to
Madison for my new job, I posted an inquiry on rec.crafts.brewing about
whether there were any homebrew clubs in Madison. I knew my phone
number-to-be and included it in the post. The first week in Madison, I
received a call from someone in the MHTG and was invited to attend their
weekly meetings. I got involved right away with our annual microbrewery
festival, and have since worked on competitions, trips, other events,
and just plain enjoying beer and sharing advice on brewing. I've
certainly learned a lot since asking my silly net question. And to
answer the literal question, yes, there are. One is my brother, and a
couple others are members of our club who have moved from Madison to
DC/NoVa. If the brewers in DC are anywhere near as friendly as they are
here, you'll hear from them soon!

Finally, Michael Teed asks about his problems with excess phenolics in
his wheat beer:

- --I don't know that I have any answers, but I do have a couple
questions. I've never tried diluting at bottling time, so I can't
respond to that. I don't have the numbers at hand and haven't used it
often enough to have it committed to memory, but is the 3068 you mention
the Wyeast Bavarian Weizen culture, or one of the other ones? After
having used it (of course), I've been told that the Bavarian Weizen can
be rather inconsistent, and the Yeast Lab culture was recommended
instead. The weizenbock I made with it (far more malt, of course, than
the weizen recipe you reported--even without the dilution) was in many
respects an excellent brew, but it did not have the intense phenolic
character expected of the style--quite the opposite "problem" from what
you report. I, too, had a room temperature fermentation, but the banana
and clove character was mostly gone by the middle of secondary
fermentation. I entered it in a couple competitions, and got a ribbon in
one, and a fairly decent score but no award in the other. (The rest, of
course, was consumed and enjoyed at club meetings and at home :-), but
five bottles and a couple of entry fees is a fairly small price to pay
to get some blind evaluation . ) In the latter competition, one judge
commented, correctly, about the low level of phenolic character (and
appropriately scored it down), yet suggested in another comment that I
should get the fermentation temperature down to the 50'sF. I made it at
the upper end of the temperature range, and he suggested the lower end.
Am I wrong, or shouldn't I expect more of the weizen(bock) character at
warmer fermentations than cooler?? What experiences have others had with
weizen cultures?? Is the Wyeast (still) as inconsistent as once
reported?? Also, is diluting at bottling time recommended, or should you
really just brew more if you want more (equipment capacity permitting)??

BLATANT SHAMELESS PLUG.... Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild
November Classic competition is November 19. All styles of beer (but no
cider/mead/sake) will be judged as such alongside beers of other styles
in two categories: "This" and "That" according to entrants' choice.
Style is important, of course, but the most important consideration is
whether it's good beer. We'll try to avoid downgrading scores because
"it's an enjoyable beer, but you should have entered it as a dry stout
rather than a foreign style stout." (face it, it's happened to all of us;
substitute the style names of your choice)

Email for forms.  Snailmail is MHTG, Box 1365, Madison, WI  53701-1365.
This is also a call for judges!!!!

Cheers!







Bob Paolino
Disoriented in Badgerspace

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Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 15:57:46 EDT
From: Yeebot at aol.com
Subject: Cross-Country beerfest

Greetings!

Winter is rapidly approaching these parts of the Hudson River Valley and not
being able to stand another winter such as the one before, I'm moving back to
LA. (Actually, it's just time for the annual or at least bi-annual move cross
country) Via Wash DC, Memphis, New Orleans, Houston, Austin, etc.; aka The
Southern Route! Are there any must-see Brewpubs, Breweries, or freaky
side-shows along the way? My only must-see right now is the Celis Brewery.
BTW, I'm not on any set itinerary and will be willing to deviate from the
current course. I really appreciate any response and will post any good
stories if and when I get to the other side.

Mucho Gusto,

Michael Yee
Angst Brewing Co.
yeebot at aol.com


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Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 14:58:22 PDT
From: Lee Bollard <bollard at spk.hp.com>
Subject: CO2 empty already?

I'm new to kegging (using Corny kegs) and my 5lb CO2 tank is reading
empty already. (at room temp too!)  The guage started out reading about
800lbs.  When I placed the cylinder into the fridge the reading
immediately went to about 500lbs.  I assumed this was normal.

I've only dispensed one keg of beer, and used CO2 for various brewery
tasks such as flooding carboys and testing used kegs for pressure
holding ability.  I understood that a 5lb cylinder of CO2 would last
long enough to dispense *8* kegs of beer!  Is this accurate?

I noticed a couple leaks over the past few weeks, but they were very
small/slow ones and have all been fixed by tightening connections.

How long should I expect a 5lb cylinder of CO2 to last?

Now that the guage reads zero, how long will the CO2 last?  It's not
actually empty yet.  Thanks!

Lee Bollard
bollard at spk.hp.com

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Date: 25 Sep 1994 18:52:18 -0400
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell at med.umich.edu>
Subject: Top Ten List=noise

Subject:  Top Ten List=noise


I know this is not Homebrewing, but it is beer stuff.  I 
stumbled on The World's top 10 beer brands, by volume in 1993.
Source: Impact Databank, 1994.

Has anyone tried Brahma Chopp, Cerveja Antarctica or Polar?  
Please don't tell me that they are similar to the first 4 on 
the list.


Rank   Brand             Brewer

1    Budweiser           Anheuser-Busch Inc.
2    Miller Lite         Miller Brewing Co.
3    Kirin Lager         Kirin Brewery Co. Ltd
4    Bud light           Anheuser-Busch Inc.
5    Brahma Chopp        Cervejaria Brahma
6    Coors Light         Coors Brewing Co.
7    Heineken            Heineken N.V.
8    Cerveja Antarctica  Antarctica Paulista
9    Polar               Cervveceria Polar S.A.
10   Ashai Super Dry     Ashai Breweries Ltd 


DanMcC


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Date: Sun, 25 Sep 94 18:22:30 PDT
From: Lee Bollard <bollard at spk.hp.com>
Subject: More kegging questions...

My Cornelius kegs hold pressure fine mostly.., but sometimes, after
removing either a CO2 or liquid connector, there is seepage at the
poppet.  Fiddling with or pressing the poppet a bit usually stops 
the seepage.

Is this normal or do I need new poppets?  Or do I need new valve
assemblies?

Regards,

Lee Bollard
bollard at spk.hp.com


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Date: Sun, 25 Sep 1994 20:34:27 -0500 (CDT)
From: Frank Longmore <longmore at tyrell.net>
Subject: Thermometer Alert!

THERMOMETER ALERT!
Recently, at Sams's Wholesale Club (here in Kansas City), I bought
3 dial thermometers for about $11.  Seemed like a real good deal.
Each has a 1" diameter dial, and a 5" long shaft perpendicular to it.
The scale goes from 0 to 220 deg. F.  They say "Cooper" and "NSF"
on the dials and come with a red plastic holder.  The shafts are about
1/8" in diameter, making them easy to install into a mash tun or
a boiling pot wall, using a 1/8" hose barb.

BUT THERE'S A CATCH!
After checking all three against a few other thermometers at 72 deg. F,
I proceeded to infusion mash 5 lbs of grain in my 6 gal insulated
bucket.  My temperatures all were too low.  (hmmmm... suspicion mode
activated...)  I brought one to work, along with another very similar
thermometer ("Igloo" brand, blue holder).  What I found was that
in a real 150 deg. F. heat chamber, the "Cooper" read 142 deg. and
the "Igloo" read 140 deg. F.

I next tested them with boiling water and the "Cooper" was 3 deg. low,
and the "Igloo" was 5 deg. low.

WHAT TO DO?
Maybe just adjust them to be correct at 150 deg.,
It's pretty easy to twist the scale to change the calibration.
Maybe I'll find a better thermometer....
But my Belgian ale came out delicious! lots of dextrins and body,
helped no doubt by the really high conversion temperature...

Caveat emptor, cherchez la fahrenheit, your mileage may vary...

Frank

  >>>>>>>>>> Frank Longmore    Internet:   longmore at tyrell.net  <<<<<<<<<<<
  >>>>>>>>>> Olathe, Kansas    Compuserve: 70036,1546           <<<<<<<<<<<
  >>>>>>>    I feel more like I do now than I did when I started... <<<<<<<


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Date: Mon, 26 Sep 94 01:23:56 EDT
From: Barkin at aol.com
Subject: Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #1535 (September 24, 1994)

UNSUSCRIBE!


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Date: Mon, 26 Sep 1994 01:43:30 -0600
From: homebrew-request@ hpfcmi.fc.hp.com (Automagical Mail Responder)
Subject: Re: Odd & Ends



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Date: 26 Sep 94  8:19:12 EDT
From: Jim Ancona <Jim_Ancona.DBS at dbsnotes.dbsoftware.com>
Subject: Re: homegrown hop update

In HBD #1535, David Sapsis <dbsapsis at nature.Berkeley.EDU> writes:
>On another note, also relating to the use of wet hops as presented in
>hop.faq, hops are *not* 80% water; that is, there is not 4 times the mass of
>free water as that mass leftover after drying.  Consequently, the suggestion
>of using 6 times as much mass of wet hops as dry ones is way off base.  All
>hops are measured for moisture using a dry weight basis, so 100% MC
>indicates that hops at this level of moisture are one-half water. 

I recently harvested half a grocery bag of home grown hops. They weighed 
20 oz. fresh. After drying on a screen in my attic for two days they weighed 
4 oz. So in my case, they really were 80% water! 

Just one data point, YMMV.

Jim



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Date: Mon, 26 Sep 94 09:56:05 EDT
From: "Terence McGravey {91942}" <tpm at swl.msd.ray.com>
Subject: Beer Chiller ?


  Is there any type of device on the market to chill beer
while it is being dispensed ? I've seen people rent kegs
for a keg party and receive a cooler with a cooling unit in
it surrounded by ice. I guess the keg comes warm. Is there
anything like this available to homebrewers who do not have
the luxury of a spare fridge ? I'm sure I could make one by
bending some copper tubing into a small wort chiller and
submerse this in a cooler of ice between the keg and the tap
but I would like to know if there's anything sold for this
purpose ?


                          Terry McGravey



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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1537, 09/27/94