FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Celis Tour Recap (Stefan Smagula)
  Carbonation Problem (Zeek67)
  Forced Carbonation (LEE BUSSY)
  Too Fresh Hops? (LEE BUSSY)
  Pumpkin Beer/Triple Bock/Water & more (Jeff Stampes)
  Removing Labels (Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900  )
  Yeast starters and hops info (Al Gaspar)
  O2 wort areation (Charles Wettergreen)
  Freezing homegrown hops? (Jeff Sargent)
  more beer noise ("Daniel F McConnell")
  Re: Pumpkin Ale (Greg Kushmerek)
  Room temp keg. (David S. Burlage)
  Cider-Beer Recipe (John Vogel)
  WANTED: Beer Judging Info, Please (Roy Harvey)
  RE: head retention (Jim Busch)
  More Ball Valve Mania (npyle)
  CO2 life ("Seth L. Betaharon")
  10# CO2 tanks lasts a looong time (29-Sep-1994 1117 -0400)
  Wyeast 3068 (Bob Chiz)
  Water Filters (John Hippe)
  Carboy crates (Henson W.C.(Bill))
  Re: Cooling Plates (beer chilling) (Mark Bellefeuille)
  Pyramid Hefeweizen (Tom Baier)
  Raspberry Beer Question (mgerard)
  ? on liquid yeast use (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
  Acronyms ? (Chris Cooper)
  Triple Bock/Sanitation/Seattle Brewery tours ("A. Sturdivant \"Sturdy\" McKee")
  The best mini-kegger?? (COTE_FRANK)
  Great Taste of the Midwest '95 note !! (brewing chemist Mitch)
  CO Brewpubs Revisted (tmarcus)
  using coconut (uswlsrap)
  Primary is sucking air (thirsty brew) (Kevin McCall)
  Re: Mash temps and style guides (Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen)
  CO2 life (Dan Klein)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 18:08:11 -0500
From: smag at mail.utexas.edu (Stefan Smagula)
Subject: Celis Tour Recap

Last weekend I took a tour of Celis Brewery in Austin, Texas. Hanging in
the entrance to the brewery is an Official Proclamation stamped with the
seal of Hoegaarde, Belgium.  It reads: "500 years after Europeans
discovered the New World, the people of America have finally discovered the
most important germano-celtic contribution--sorry for the delay!"

According to the Institute of Brewing Studies (?--I didn't take notes)
Celis is the fastest growing craft brewery in the country.  They brew about
four times a week, but are brewing well below capacity, due to a lack of
storage tanks.

The head brewer is an American woman who studied brewing in Belgium.  She
took over about a year ago when the first brewer left amid controversy.

I tried to read the mash schedule temperature readout--and was quickly told
by the assistant brewer that the schedule was a dummy readout.  Foiled.  He
did say that the mash schedule for the White (i think?) was 114-150-170 deg
F, with a very long protein rest.  I think a more accurate mash schedule
was posted in the HBD about a year ago.

Pierre Celis oversees the brewing in Austin, TX, but is not around much.
His daughter and son-in-law pretty much run the show here in Austin.  When
he's not doing beer festival promotions (did anyone see him at the Beer
Fest in Brooklyn this year?) Pierre is busy with a new brewery in Belgium
where he is brewing more White--and it seems they really like it--because
according to the tour guide they have already sold more beer in Belgium
than they have in America.

Celis is coming out with a new beer: a raspberry/wheat ale.  They have a
little contest to name the beer.  I don't know what the winner gets.

As far as the rumored acquisition of Celis by Miller, I did not hear one
hint of that during the tour, and knowing the Legend Of Celis (he left
Belgium to get away from InterBrew (tm)--the European equivalent of
Miller), I kind of doubt it.




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Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 20:46:29 EDT
From: Zeek67 at aol.com
Subject: Carbonation Problem

I have been brewing for five years now (all-grain for the last two) and have
never had any problem with carbonation but recently I've been plagued with
the following situation:

My last four or five batches have resulted in little or no carbonation in any
of the bottles.  I am very consistant with my procedures and do not change
anything drastically from batch to batch.  The problem has occured with
different recipes using different strains of yeast.  All fermented fine in
primary and secondary (none sat more than 2-3 weeks in secondary).  I use 3/4
c. corn sugar per five gallon batch boiled and well mixed into the beer at
bottling.  All sugar was from the same bag that worked successfully in past
brews.  My last batch had the same problem.  I did shake the bottles a little
to rouse the yeast and this helped a little but it was still not carbonated
like I expect.  

Short of kegging my next attempt to fix this will be to switch from bleach to
an iodophor.  I am wondering if traces of bleach (despite thorough rinsing)
are stunning my yeast.  I typically have a hard time rinsing soap with my
hard water though after rinsing bleach sanitizing solution there is no odor.
 I am hoping the iodophor may rinse better but I'll say again I haven't had
this carbonation problem in the past.  I will also be trying a new lot of
sugar.

Has anyone had this problem or do you have any theories on the problem?

Burpless in NY,

~Zeek


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Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 22:23:00 -0600
From: lee.bussy at twsubbs.twsu.edu (LEE BUSSY)
Subject: Forced Carbonation

From:           lee.bussy at twsubbs.twsu.edu <Lee Bussy>
Subject:        Force Carbonation credit


>(Chart from Anton Verhulst, I don't know who originated it, but
thanks!)
>
>                      Volumes of CO2 desired
>Temp   2.0  2.1  2.2  2.3  2.4  2.5  2.6  2.7  2.8  2.9  3.0

I belive the original chart was published in Byron Burch's "Brewing
Quality Beers: The Homebrewer's Essential Guidebook", Joby Books, 1986,
1992.

That's where I found it anyway.  The original version contains more info
on
carbonating beers at lower volumes (as in traditional ales).

 -Lee Bussy
 lee.bussy at twsubbs.twsu.edu
 18 at 3651 WWIVnet

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Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 22:25:00 -0600
From: lee.bussy at twsubbs.twsu.edu (LEE BUSSY)
Subject: Too Fresh Hops?

From:           lee.bussy at twsubbs.twsu.edu <Lee Bussy>
Subject:        Too fresh hops <Bob Jones>


>About a year ago Mr. Fresh Hops (Mark Garetz) came over for a little
beer
>talk and a few brews. He brought along a beer for tasting. I tasted it
and
>told Mark the hops were too fresh! He about passed out. This is the
first
>time I have every experienced this. The flavors and smells were as
Davis
>says pine/citris and grapefruity. Now as far as fresh hops goes, Mark
does a

What type of hops were they?  Cascades are trademarked by the
smell/taste
you describe and the strength is dependant upon the boil time or lack of
it.

I on occasion use fresh hops and notice that I get the aroma I want when
I
finish hop and that's about it.  That's about all I use homegrown hops
for as I have no information regarding AA%'s etc.  Too much aroma?  Not
in my beer! :)

 -Lee Bussy
 lee.bussy at twsubbs.twsu.edu
 18 at 3651 WWIVnet

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Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 08:04:24 MDT
From: jeff at neocad.com (Jeff Stampes)
Subject: Pumpkin Beer/Triple Bock/Water & more


> Tom Pratt asks:
>
> If I were to throw some pumpkin in the secondary with the intent of
> coming up with a seasonal twist, how would I go about preparing the
> pumpkin and how much do you suppose I should put in?
>
> First off, why the secondary?  I shudder to think of adding *anything* to
> the secondary, risking exploding contaminated beers!  I have been brewing
> a lot of fruit beers in the last year (Raspberry Ale, Raspberry Brown &
> Blueberry Stout) so I thought I would share my ideas with you.
>
> You want your fruit to be sanitized, just like anything else you put in
> a beer.  This means either treaing it somehow, or adding it to hot wort.
> Being a purist, I add it after the boil.  I say after the boil, because if
> you actually boil the fruit, you will pasteurize it, leaving you with some
> pretty ugly results.  My suggestion:  Add it *immediately* after the boil,
> and let it seep for about 5 minutes before you cool the wort.  Go ahead and
> leave it in the primary fermenter and let the whole mess churn about for
> a week or so.  Strain the fruit off when transferring the secondary.  I
> suggest a third fermentation, just to help get rid of any last 'chunkies`
> you may have via settling/racking.  This method has worked beautifully
> for me several times, with no adverse results.
>
> Pumpkin is an interesting thought . . . I suppose you would just want to
> chop it into pieces small enough to fit into the carboy.  Don't be too
> concerned about it's consistency though . . . if it turns to mush, you
> will only be straining it later anyway
> *********************
> Eric is worried about the minerals in his water....
>
> I have always brewed with well water in the mountains, and can understand
> your concerns . . . after much soul searching, I got lazy and daring . ..
> All I do is add a little gypsum to the water coming from our water
> softener, and I've made the best beers in 2 years of brewing . . . give
it a shot.  You can then just add the 3 gallons strainght from the tap
without worrying about contamination . . . I never had that problem.

 *********************
>
> Gregg Carrier wants to know about Sam Adams Triple Bock...
>
> I tried it at last years Great American Beer Festival, and if given the
> opportunity again, I'll pass by the free taste.  Good concept, but a little
> toxic for my liking . . . Pour a shot of Jim Beam into a Doppelbock
> and you'll have a good idea of the Triple Bock experience.
>
> *********************
>
> Here's a good one, I've been staying with various friends for a few weeks
> while I've been between leases.  I brewed a Blueberry Stout, but had no room
> for the carboy at my friend's.  So as soon as it went into secondary, I had to
 
> put it in the back seat of my car, and drove around with it for a couple
> of weeks, subjecting it to temps. from 30F-90F . . . I'll be curious to
> see how this works!  It smells heavenly though!
>
> Jeff Stampes
> "I'd rather drink a beer than eat a steer"

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Date:     Thu, 29 Sep 94 7:55:54 EDT
From: Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900 <ksemery at cbda9.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Removing Labels


geiser at rb.unisys.com asked about removing labels.  The best way I have
found is to let them set in a bucket of water with a cup of laundry
detergent in it.  (some/most) of the labels will float off the bottles. 
The others will pull off very easily.  If you want to save one, just let
it dry out.  Labels and bottling.... Thats why I started kegging!

Kevin

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 07:36:11 CDT
From: Al Gaspar <gaspar at STL-17SIMA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Yeast starters and hops info


My thanks to everyone that replied to my messages on growing hops,
Challenger hops, and yeast starters.  My replies have bounced to a
number of addresses; so I am taking up a little bandwidth for a 
thank you...  If anyone is interested in the information I gathered,
I'll be happy to send it on.

Cheers--

Al

- -- 
Al Gaspar       <gaspar at stl-17sima.army.mil>
USAMC SIMA, ATTN:  AMXSI-TTC, 1222 Spruce St., St. Louis, MO  63103-2834
COMMERCIAL:  (314) 331-4354  AUTOVON:  555-4354
relay1.uu.net!stl-17sima.army.mil!gaspar

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 07:50 CDT
From: chuckmw at mcs.com (Charles Wettergreen)
Subject: O2 wort areation         

To: homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

Where's the best place to get an oxygen bottle to use for wort areation? 
Can I use standard welding oxygen or do I need to have medical grade O2? 
If welding oxygen, do I need to put an in-line filter in?

Bob Jones showed pictures (at the AHA Nationals) of his yeast culturing 
setup with an oxygen bleed into his yeast culture. Bob, did you run that 
into a standard aquarium airstone?

TIA,

Chuck
/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
   Chuck Wettergreen
   Chuckmw at mcs.com
   Geneva, Illinois
/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*

 * RM 1.3  * 
                                                                              

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 07:37:40 -0500
From: jeff_sargent at il.us.swissbank.com (Jeff Sargent)
Subject: Freezing homegrown hops?

Couple of simple hop questions--

Instead of drying freshly picked hops, is it possible to preserve  
them by freezing (packed in air-tight bags)?   


Is there any way to estimate the alpha acid content of homegrown  
hops?

 - Jeff
sargent at il.us.swissbank.com

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Date: 29 Sep 1994 09:08:19 -0400
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel.F.McConnell at med.umich.edu>
Subject: more beer noise

Subject:  more beer noise


Many thanks to those who responded to my query regarding 
the top ten beer brands in the world (based on production 
volume).  In sumary, all 169 Million bbl of the top ten 
Brands produced are similar in style, the South Americans 
drink a lot of beer and no, I don't get out much.   

Here's another tidbit from the same article: the top ten 
Brewers produced 348 Million bbl in 1993.  According to 
DeClerck, in 1958 the total world production was 300 
Million hectoliters or 213 Million bbl.

Soooooo.....here's today's top ten list:

Top 10 Imported Beer Brands (US)

1    Heineken        23.0%
2    Corona Extra    10.9%
3    Molson Golden   6.3%
4    Beck's          5.9%
5    Labatt Blue     5.9%
6    Amstel Light    3.7%
7    Foster's        3.2%
8    Guinness Stout  2.9%
9    Bass            2.7%
10   Tecate          2.6%
11   Moosehead       2.6%
12   Molson Ice      2.3%
13   Dos Equis       1.6%
14   Molson light    1.4%
15   St Pauli Girl   1.3%

OK, top 15. At least there is some flavor here! These 
brands include 75.3% of the market share for US imports.
Source: Impact Databank, 1994.

DanMcC






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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 09:12:06 -0400
From: gwk at world.std.com (Greg Kushmerek)
Subject: Re: Pumpkin Ale


I've made two pumpkin ales - the second one is in primary right now.
Last year's pumpkin ale I made with an extract beer.  I cut the
pumpkin up, let it steep for 2 hours at 180 (to cook it) and then
steeped my specialty grains in the resulting water (at 150F).  

I removed the pumpkin using a stainless steel collander.  The beer
came out OK -- the real problem I had with that is that I used ONE
OUNCE of cloves.  I didn't know just how powerful they can be.

This year I did an all-grain.  First I cut the pumpkin into five
pieces (cut off the top in a pentagon shape and then cut down the side
to the bottom -- you can rip five pieces off easily).  Then I plunged
a temperature probe into it and heated it to 200F in the microwave.  

Next I stuck it in my mash water for 90 minutes at 150F.  The result
was pumpkin mash water.  I had a nice orange color to it that I added
to my grains and got a good orange-colored beer.  The wort did not
taste bitter, and I only used 1/4 ounce of a "Pumpkin Pie Spice" from
a local store.  The wort had a really nice aroma too it.  

I have high hopes (although my yeast starter may be a source of
concern, but that's for another day if this doesn't come out too
well).

Cheers,

- --gk

- -- 
Greg Kushmerek
gwk at world.std.com

(alter-ego in trunk)
 

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 09:14:45 -0400
From: bq240 at cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David S. Burlage)
Subject: Room temp keg.

I keep my keg at room temp and run the brew thru a filter, then 
through the cooling coils of a restaurant-style pop machine (hold
glass under tap and it fills). Of course, the CO2 pressure needs
to be 25-30 psi and so I have to dispense slowly or FOAM!!

But I am interested in hearing opinions on the storage of beer at
room temp. I make 10gal at a time, and I'm usually the only one
drinking it (fine by me!), so it takes me about 2 months to kill 
a batch. Do any of you feel that my beer is suffering at room 
temp? I've thought about getting a 'fridge for my keg, but if it
won't have a drastic effect, why bother? I think that this is one
of those issues that has no "right" answer, but I'd like your 
opinion. Email or post is fine. Thanks and keep on brewing!

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 07:16:25 MST
From: johnv at chdasic.sps.mot.com (John Vogel)
Subject: Cider-Beer Recipe

Hello, with fall upon us I feel inclined to use some
of our local cider for a beer experiment. I have 
a recipe in mind but would like some comments before
I start the brew.

Actually my wife thought I was crazy; I just want 
a second opinion...

 1) bring 5.5 gals of FRESH cider to boil
 2) add 1 lb of clover honey
 3) add 4 lbs of light DME
 4) after 20 minutes add 2 oz cascades
 5) after 20 minutes add 1 oz cascades
 6) after  5 minutes chill to pitching temp
 7) pitch yeast
     I HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT THE BEST YEAST TYPE TO USE
 7) goto secondary after primary activity slows
     A) make a slurry of 2 oz cascades
          use 1 cup of primary beer
     B) add slurry to secondary
     C) add the rest of beer to secondary
 8) complete the standard brew cycle

What I am shooting for is a brew that has LOTS of
hoppy taste and aroma. 

Please send comments to jpvrpc at aol.com .

Thanks,
JPV

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 07:17:08 -0700
From: royh at netcom.com (Roy Harvey)
Subject: WANTED: Beer Judging Info, Please


I'm interested in finding out more about becoming a beer judge.  What
are the requirements (oh, this should be funny! ;-).  Seriously:

  * How does someone become a certified beer judge?
  * I assume there is a test, what are the study materials?
  * What are the steps involved?

Thanks in advance!

Roy Harvey
Mountain View, CA
royh at netcom.com

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 10:21:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: RE: head retention

David writes:
Subject: Re: Help with carbonation and head retention

<good carbonation is required for a head (I have not tried beer gas
		dispensing of an undercarbonated beer to alter this).

This is not really true.  Consider the English cask conditioned ales
that are near flat but still have a creamy head that lasts (in the
best ales) to the bottom of the glass.  How do they do this?  By 
dispensing through an engine.  The method of dispense, be it out 
of a bottle or carbonated keg or engine, has a great impact on the
head retention in the glass.  Take two bottles of commercial beer 
of good quality.  Pour one in a glass being very careful to not 
agitate the beer, pour slowley down the side of the glass.  Then 
pour the other one vigorously into the center of the glass.  I 
would venture to bet that 90% plus beers will have better head 
retention in the second glass. 

The same is true from a keg, pour it careful and the head will 
not last as good. 

Now, since its Oktoberfest season, anyone notice how all of the
great Ofest beers of Munich have some of the absolute worst head
retention seen in any beer.  Must be something going on in the 
malt choices used in these beers.  Also, has anyone in the US 
seen Hacker Pschorr Ofest on draught?  I hear they didnt send
any draught beer over this year......Shame if true.

Good brewing,

Jim Busch

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 8:33:54 MDT
From: npyle at hp7013.ecae.StorTek.COM
Subject: More Ball Valve Mania

One more thing about ball-valves:  I've been told by a plumber friend that
even the good ball valves with the nylon/teflon insert can trap liquid in
them if you're not careful.  When you close a ball-valve, there is a cylinder
of liquid trapped in the valve, which isn't a big problem in itself, assuming
the last thing you run through the valve is boiling water or sanitizer.  The
potential problem is that there are other cavities inside the valve which
might retain liquid even when you leave the valve open between brew
sessions.  Closing the valve traps wort inside the valve; opening the valve
allows most of the liquid to be flushed out, but some could be left behind in
a cavity.  My friend recommended that I flush any ball valve with sanitizer
by opening and closing it several times while the sanitizer is flowing, and
running it for a while with the valve half-open.  This is what I'll do in the
future.  I assume these problems go away if you buy a valve specifically made
for this type of application (food-grade).
             
"...there are two types of breweries:  those that HAVE had an infection, and
those that WILL have an infection"  - Fal Allen

"Count me in that second group; glad that's over with!" - Norm

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 11:07:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Seth L. Betaharon" <sethb at wam.umd.edu>
Subject: CO2 life

Bob Jones writes: 

> When I first started using CO2 on a routine bases, I used a 20# cylinder in
> 5 months. I then got in the habit of turning on the CO2 when I needed it and
> shuting off the CO2 when not in use. My 20# cylinder lasted about 14 months.
> There are always slow leaks somewhere. Get in the habit of turning off the
> CO2 when not in use, and you will greatly extend the life of your supply. Oh

If there is a small leak, as you say there always is, the beer will 
eventually go flat if pressure from the tank is not available to make up 
for pressure lost through the leak.  

Seth L. Betaharon

sethb at wam.umd.edu




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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 11:20:45 EDT
From: 29-Sep-1994 1117 -0400 <ferguson at zendia.enet.dec.com>
Subject: 10# CO2 tanks lasts a looong time

>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 07:40:33 +0900
>From: bjones at novax.llnl.gov (Bob Jones)
>Subject: CO2 life
>
>When I first started using CO2 on a routine bases, I used a 20# cylinder in
>5 months. I then got in the habit of turning on the CO2 when I needed it and
>shuting off the CO2 when not in use. My 20# cylinder lasted about 14 months.
>There are always slow leaks somewhere. Get in the habit of turning off the
>CO2 when not in use, and you will greatly extend the life of your supply. Oh
>and get that cylinder out of the frig. The cold will lower the pressure of
>the CO2 and the moisture in the frig. will damage your regulator over time,
>IMHO.

this is exactly what i do also.  i have a 10#er that has not been refilled
in over 18 mos.  i've dispensed 15-20 kegs with it and force-carbo'd at
least 5 of those.  still going.  what i do is blast CO2 in it up to about
20#, dispense until it is very slow, then reload w/ CO2.  the only time i
keep it on is when i have a pahty.

jc

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 09:39:22 MDT
From: chiz at atmel.com (Bob Chiz)
Subject: Wyeast 3068

 
    In HBD 1539, Mike Teed talks about variations in the Weihanstephan 3068 
yeast.  One variable I have not seen mentioned concerning the phenolics is
the number of generations from the original wyeast package.  I tasted my
weizen last night which was fifth generation from the wyeast package.
Definitely more clove and less banana than the first batch from the wyeast
package.  I also recall talking to the brewer at the Baltimore Brewing
Company in which he said that they culture up new yeast from slants every
five batches for their weizen because of yeast mutations.  Any one else
experience this ?

Bob Chizmadia

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 12:14:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Hippe <johnd at iglou.com>
Subject: Water Filters

I while ago I posted a question about water filters.  First I want to 
thank those who responded to my question (John Thrower, Stephen 
Harrington, Mark Fredrickson, Bob Wood, Barry, Barry Nisly, Chris Weight, 
and Clay?).  After reading the responses, talking to local brewing 
buddies and doing research at the local library I have decided to get an 
undersink filter with a sediment and activated charcoal filter that is 
silver impregnated.  The sediment filter (5 microns) will get rid of most 
undisolved solids.  The activated charcoal will get rid of most of the 
chlorine in the water.  The silver impregnation will help keep bacteria 
from living in the filter.  At present I have only found one filter of 
this sort and it is $185 at the local homebrew shop.  The owner of this 
store said that he tops off his caroys straight from the water tap.  With 
my local water (Louisville, Ky) this should not pose much of a problem.

- --
John David Hippe
johnd at iglou.com

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 12:00:55 -0500
From: awchrd2 at peabody.sct.ucarb.com (Henson W.C.(Bill))
Subject: Carboy crates

Sorry it took so lond to respond but I'm fighting whatever's going around
with antibiotics and decongestants and I'm not exactly sure I'm here. The
carboy crate was modeled after a commercial version that I purchased about
20 years ago from a lab supply house. So, I don't have"plans", just a
description. The outside dimensions are 13" square and 24" high. It's made
from firring(?) strips that are 1/2"X 2 1/2"X L and resembles a box kite.
There are 4-24" pieces ,8-12" pieces and 10-13" pieces. The 24" pieces are
uprights and there are 4 wood bands around the circumference with
alternating 12" and 13" pieces, one at the top and one at the bottom. And
finally, there are 2X13" pieces across the bottom( 2 1/2" up from the
floor) as a seat for the carboy, close enough together to seat the carboy
upside down. all joints are screwed and glued. The dimensions are for a
narrow mouth 5 gal. carboy. The large mouth Pyrex(TM) carboys are shorter
and larger in diam.and the crate will have to be scaled up.I hope this
makes sense and is helpful. 
I would also like to mention that most wholesalers carry  odd sugars;
demerara, treacles and such. Most also carry books on making hard cider,
but there's not a lot of retailers that can afford to stock such items. Ask
your dealer to special order these for you. G.W Kent and Crosby&Baker are
two wholesalers that carry a large inventory.( No affiliation, just trying
to be helpful.)

Chao for now,

awchrd2 at peabody.sct.ucarb.com (Henson W.C.(Bill))



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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 10:17:01 -0700
From: Mark Bellefeuille <mcb at mcdpxs.phx.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Cooling Plates (beer chilling)

djt2 at po.cwru.edu writes:
> I am pretty happy with mine (a 19#'er) and use if for parties as well as
> for home. I tucked the plate into the back of my fridge and ran a tube from
> a keg in the basement through the back of the frige into it. That way I
> have cold beer on tap all the time, and it takes up only as much space as a
> phone book in the fridge. The mass of the plate is enough to chill 2-3 mugs
> at a time, though, so an ice bucket is needed for parties.

Dennis,
I'd love to try this, it sounds great. I'd be able to cut down on the number of
refrigerator/freezers I seem to be wanting/needed.
Could you include what temp and pressure you keep your keg at in the basement?
I'm asking how using the cooling plate affects your carbonation.

Thanks in Advanvce,
mark
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark C. Bellefeuille                     mcb at phx.mcd.mot.com

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 10:30:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Baier <BAIER_T at SALT.PLU.EDU>
Subject: Pyramid Hefeweizen

Any opinions on trying to reculture/reuse the
significant amount of yeast that Pyramid is
including in each and every bottle of its
Hefeweizen?

Also, are there opinions about use of this
particular yeast strain for non-wheat beers?
This particular product does not display the
classic German weizen characteristics, so my
hypothesis is that it might also work well
for traditional ales.  Heck, it may even be
the same yeast they use in their Pale for all
I know.

Any facts or opinions gratefully accepted.

Tom Baier - Tacoma, WA - BAIER_T at SALT.PLU.EDU

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Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 15:31:44 -0500
From: mgerard at engin.umich.edu
Subject: Raspberry Beer Question

I made a raspberry beer last year.  It was basically a belgian ale with 8
pounds of raspberries added at the secondary.  The beer came out somewhat
sour/bitter from the raspberries with no residual sugar left to balance it
out.  Have others had more success with raspberries?

Thanks in advance,

Mike



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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 14:01 EDT
From: CSS2 at OAS.PSU.EDU (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
Subject: ? on liquid yeast use

Yesterday (or the day before) someone posted a note about using Wyeast<tm>
liquid yeast packs without starters.  Their point was that if you did this,
you were asking for infection problems and high final gravity beer.
The infection part makes sense to me, since there is definitely a much longer
lag time when you pitch a yeast pack directly (I've done so with my last 3
batches).  Unless your sanitation is very good, other micronasties can take
over before your yeasties get going.
But why should underpitching (which is what I'm doing) result in a beer with a
higher final gravity than if a starter is used?  It will take longer to reach
optimum yeast concentration in your wort, but once this level is reached, why
sould fermentation stop prematurely and leave me with a high F.G. beer?  Am I
missing something?  If so, what?  Private email is fine; if I get some
worthwhile info I will post it here.  Thanks
Hoppy Brewing
Curt
css2 at oas.psu.edu
Penn State Univ. Environmental Health & Safety

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 14:00:26 -0400
From: Chris Cooper <ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com>

Date: Thursday Sept. 29, 1994  2:00 PM EDT
From: ccooper at a2607cc.msr.hp.com (Chris Cooper)
Subject: Acronyms ?

This is just a question to clarify terminology, as a fairly new
reader of HBD many contibutors make mention of LME and DME and various 
other abreviations when they are refering to types of malt extracts.
Would someone in the know please publish a glossary of the various
acronyms used to define malts, dried malts, misc ingredients, etc.
and commonly used terms in the HBD.

Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan    --> Where ever you go <--
ccooper at a2607.cc.msr.hp.com         --> There you are     <--
IBMMAIL(99880)
 


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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 11:12:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Sturdivant \"Sturdy\" McKee" <sturdy at itsa.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Triple Bock/Sanitation/Seattle Brewery tours

I enjoyed David Eichler's response to Gregg Carrier's query regarding Sam 
Adam's Triple Bock, and very much agree with his analysis.  I thought of 
a port with a lingering maltiness when I tried it.  But FYI, those of you 
in the San Francisco area, the Toronado (547 Haight St.) has it and sells 
a 3 1/2-4 oz portion for, I think it was $2.50.  This is a far cry from 
the $110 and probably a good idea before making your investment.  All 
standard disclaimers apply re:  Toronado.

Now for a sanitation question.  I have a couple of those 5L mini-kegs 
that friends gave me upon graduation.  I have had sanitation problems 
with them.  Needless to say, it is heartbreaking to lose 5L at a time, 
even though it's not the full 5 gallons.  I've been using bleach as my 
sanitizer, in generous proportions.  I had one keg pop out on top and had 
to dump it.  The next time, I used the same bleach method, then put my 
bottles and kegs in the oven at 200^ F for 30 minutes.  One of the kegs 
REALLY popped out on both ends and launched the plug across the yard when 
I took it outside to relieve the pressure.  My understanding is that the 
200^x30' should have taken care of any mini-critters trying to get a 
foothold.  Is my problem during the siphoning phase?  Did something find 
it's way into my keg between the oven and capping, or is my 
sterilization/sanitation procedure faulty?  Any help would be 
appreciated.  Also, anyone have experience with using a dented 
5L keg?  Should I just scrap them?  Private email at <sturdy at itsa.ucsf.edu>.
TIA

And a contribution to the HBD, so I don't appear to be using this forum 
strictly for I own advantage. ;-}  Went to Seattle recently and went to a 
number of the local brewpubs and a couple breweries. (Thank you everyone 
who responded to my request for info on the Northwest Ale Festival.) 

 The tour at the Redhook Brewery was informative and they let you taste a 
4 oz sample of each of the beers they have on tap at the time you tour.  The 
cost was $1 and you get to keep your nifty tasting glass.  The beers, as 
always, were wonderful.  They had a special rye beer that was very 
pleasant and enjoyable for a lighter beer, even though I'm usually 
predisposed to their ESB.  The only problem at Redhook is you have to 
wait for your friends to meet you at the pub prior to the tour, and 
depending on how early you are, you can find yourself sampling pitchers 
before you go taste the rest in 4 oz glasses.  Thank you to the folks at 
Redhook for not asking us to leave.

Rainier Brewery was fun also.  They have a 20' video on the (tongue in 
cheek) history of beer to start off the tour.  The tour itself is a 
pretty cursory, quick look at this, quick look at that, kind of affair.  
But it was intelligible and noone was real excited about standing around 
in 50^ rooms asking questions.  We got our chance toward the end of the 
tour, which brings us to the best part.  Rainier is part G. Heilleman (I 
just know I mispelled that) which means that they make more than just 
Rainier, Rainier Ale, Rainier Ice, etc.  They had 9 beers on tap, and 
allowed each person 3, 10 oz glasses.  So take 2 friends.  The tour was 
free, and the beer consisted of Emerald City Pale Ale, another Emerald 
City ale, Henry's, the Rainiers, Schmidt's, etc.  The Emerald Cities were 
pretty good, and Rainier Ale and Henry's are not at all bad when they're 
that fresh.  They also have a store off the "Mountain Room" in which one 
may buy cheap fridge magnets, bottle openers, pens, fairly cheap glasses 
and pitchers, and not-so-cheap apparel.  

How about some of you out there letting us live vicariously through your 
travels?  Lots of requests for info on brewpubs and trips to Europe.  
What was it like being there?  

Happy brewing,
Sturdy 

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Date: 29 Sep 94 06:17:00 -0700
From: COTE_FRANK at Tandem.COM
Subject: The best mini-kegger??

Hi everybody,
I want to stop having to bottle and I'd like to get one of these
mini-kegs but there are quite a few out there and none of them are
cheap.  I'd like to know what kinds of experiences you've had with
small, < 5 gals, keggers.  I'll compile the info and publish it here
on the Net.  Mostly what I'd like to know is, "How to they hold up in
the long haul?"  The Party Balls look good but are all the parts
easily available to the homebrewer?   The big beer cans look like
the're not going to last very long.  I've seen one made of plastic
with an inflatable bladder that has to be replaced with each use,
is it worth it?

Well, thanks in advance,
Frank Cote
Tandem Computers
Chicago, Il.
(708)285-5917

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 15:16:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: gellym at aviion.persoft.com (brewing chemist Mitch)
Subject: Great Taste of the Midwest '95 note !!

Okay,

I know a lot of you don't give a rip about regional beer festivals and such,
but some of you may take an interest.

A brief note on the next years Great Taste of the Midwest, in Madison 
Wisconsin. 

Due to a change in parks, we are forced to change our date also. Originally
scheduled for the 19th of August next year, it is now scheduled for the 
previous Saturday, August 12th at Olin-Turville (NOT Olin-Terrace) park !!

Most will probably soon forget this, but I had to mention it now for those of
you that plan that far ahead. Tickets will still be on sale next May.

We now resume our regularly scheduled digest.

Cheers,

Mitch

- -- 
|                       - Mitch Gelly -                        | Zack Norman |
|software QA specialist, unix systems administrator, zymurgist,|     is      |
| AHA/HWBTA beer judge, & president of the Madison Homebrewers |  Sammy in   |
|      - gellym at aviion.persoft.com - gelly at persoft.com -       | Chief Zabu  |

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 16:09:45
From: tmarcus at aspect.dmc.com
Subject: CO Brewpubs Revisted


     hello all,
     
     I can't thank you all enough for the overwhelming number of responses 
     to my request for brewpubs and such in Colorado.  I think I'm going to 
     find it difficult to find time to climb Longs Peak et. al. with all 
     the beer I'm going to have to try along the way.  The amount of 
     information is far too large to post as a summary.  If anyone is 
     interested I'll be compiling all the info and would be happy to 
     reciprocate the favor by direct mailing to any requests.
     
     Well enough useless drivel...Hey, I'm walkin' here!!!
     
     Todd A. Marcus - tmarcus at aspect.dmc.com

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 18:50:02 EDT
From: uswlsrap at ibmmail.com
Subject: using coconut                                                    

- ----------------------- Mail item text follows ---------------

To: I1010141--IBMMAIL

From: Bob Paolino
      Research Analyst
Subject: using coconut

I received a homebrew shop ad in the mail that reminded me of a less
than successful experiment of about a year ago. The ad offered a recipe
for a coconut brew done with a bottle of flavouring rather than the real
thing. My experiment was with shredded/flaked coconut--not quite the
real thing, but closer than a bottle.

I boiled the coconut with the wort and ended up with a lot of oil
nonetheless. It tasted okay, but the oils left a ring in the neck of the
bottle (I don't believe it was an infection) and wonderful little things
floating around. (BTW, it took third place in the Chicago Beer Society's
Spooky Brew "Big Muddy" category--in honour of the Mississippi River
floods. The scoring was in negative numbers, and I scored big for good
gushing qualities and lost negative points for it being somewhat
drinkable and having a little too much clarity or something like that.)
:-)

Seeing the recipe made me think about trying a coconut brew again (not the
light-bodied one in the ad, but something), but I don't like the idea of
using flavourings. If I'm going to do a fruit beer, I want to use fruit
rather than extracts; similarly, if I'm going to do a coconut beer, I
want to use coconut.

Has anyone had any success using coconut in beer? Flakes or fresh? What
about the sugary canned stuff used for pina coladas?

How do you deal with the oils? Suggestions on when to add? I'm hesitant
about adding anything to the secondary other than more hops, but if
someone can make a good case, I'll listen.

TIA,

Bob Paolino
Disoriented in Badgerspace

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 17:40:35 EDT
From: Kevin McCall <Kevin.Mccall at analog.com>
Subject: Primary is sucking air (thirsty brew)

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post (said with some trepidation fearing
a good hot flaming, but I have checked with everyone I know
and every book I own [quite a few]).

I am submitting this to both the HBD and Mead digest in the
hopes that someone out there can help me. The recipe is based
on a cider posted to HBD 14 Sept by MR_SPOCK at delphi.

Problem: My brew in the primary (recipe below) is SUCKING air.
	Yes, the temperature is stable since it has been 4 days
	since I sealed the primary.  Yes, I pay undue detail to
	sterilization.

4 gal fresh pressed cider (got it fresh from the Apple Barn,Fitchburg,MA
5 lbs wildflower honey     "                                            "
1 gal water (to boil honey)
1 tsp tannin
1 tsp acid blend
American Ale yeast (from a starter solution done 24 hours earlier)
	(Yeast from Yeast Labs, distributed by KENT)
SG=1.068
I did not use any campden tablets as I don't want the sulfites.

As mentioned, I made a yeast starter 24 hours ahead of time with a
fermentation lock on the jug.  Bubbling about once every 30 seconds
before I pitched it. I use a plastic primary (from any standard beer/wine
starter kit) which showed some pressure after sealing. (Lock is pushed to
the top due to the sealing action of the lid).

Sunday afternoon - sealed primary fermenter
Monday morning   - lock has settled on to the vent tube
Monday night	 - lock empty of water, add more
Tuesday morning  - "                            "
Tuesday night    - lock empty. I pour water in and WATCH the fermentation 
			lock devour the water.  I'm serious.  I repeatedly
			poured water in and watched the lock suck it up
			in less than a minute.  Popped the top on the 
			fermenter.  Smelled fine and nothing leapt out at me.
			Boiled two ounces of yeast nutrient and threw it in.
			Also pitched, without a starter, another vial of yeast.
			(What do I have to lose now but the yeast?). 
			Stirred and Resealed. 

Wednesday morning
Wednesday night
Thursday morning  - My brew is still very thirsty and will drink what I give
                    it. 

Has anyone ever seen this?  Am I harboring an alien bacteria that will make
my and my friends miserable (sick)? I am by no means a master or even advanced
brewer but this has me stumped, nervous, anxious... 

Guess I'll run on home and have a homebrew (hmm, my brown ale or spring bock?)

Thanks in advance and I'll summarize any (if there are any) responses.

Kevin

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Date: Fri, 30 Sep 94 15:23:00 EST
From: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen <aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Mash temps and style guides
Full-Name: Aidan "Krazy Krausen Kropping Kiwi" Heerdegen

I'd just like to thank Algis and David Elm for that great info on 
protein rests/head retention etc in #1539..  great info, best HBD 
I have read in ages.  

 
Richard B. Webb <rbw1271 at appenine.ca.boeing.com> wrote:

| Being the anal retentive type that I am, I've long been unhappy with the
| standard beer style guides that are available. After combing through
| the available literature, I've compiled this list of beer styles
| and their characteristics. I've considered the malty-ness, the
| hoppiness, and the body of a style, as well as a smattering of
| information of a general nature to the style. I left off the things
| that are in every guide: specificly, the bitterness, gravity,
| color and percent alcohol.

I have been unable to find this sort of style info (I know I 
know, SUDS has it, but not all of us use *spit* DOS or *small 
spit* windows).  

Could I put a vote in for the normal style guidelines ot be put 
in as well ...  or is this info archived on Sierra? I hope not,
or my butt will be TOAST ... thanks for the info too Rich, looks
like a great idea, I'd like a copy when it is finished.

Aidan

- --
Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some
moistened bink lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
	-- Dennis, Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Aidan Heerdegen				
e-mail: aidan at rschp2.anu.edu.au


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Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 08:39:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Dan Klein <dklein at freenet.columbus.oh.us>
Subject: CO2 life

Hi All

Lee Boland asks about CO2 life.

My experience using a Johnson Enterprises TapRite draft beer kit with 5 lb
cylinder for 10 years has been to get about 3 years service out of one
charge for dispensing of 1/2 barrels with both two prong and ball taps. I
have not had any problems with leaks and leave the CO2 on till keg is empty
and only turn it off when empty.

I also have the cylinder in the frig and have had no problems with
moisture however, I can see where this might be a problem if using the
cylinder out side of the frig to purge systems etc. because of
condensation. The instructions that came with the kit said to mount the
cylinder in the frig.

The colder frig does lower the pressure in the tank to apx. 500 psi at  40deg
F (875psi  at  70deg F) but this should have no effect on the dispensing
pressure of <10 psi.

In order to determine apx. how much CO2 is left in your cylinder weigh it
and subtract the the tare weight (stamped on side of cylinder).

	Cheers, Dan

   I Grow My Own Vegetables, Load My Own Ammunition, Brew My Own Beer,
         Kill My Own Meat, Work On My Own Car, & Fix My Own Home. 
       Your Opinions Are Sought, But I'll Make Up My Own Damn Mind.
+++++++++++++++++++++dklein at freenet.columbus.oh.us++++++++++++++++++++++





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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1541, 10/01/94