FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Head Retention and Irish Moss (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
  1994 THIRSTY (Wolfe)
  Shiner Bock (Scott_Pisani)
  Kegging Questions (Robert Rae)
  None (Mike Rubino)
  re: pumpkin (Andrei Fintescu)
  RIMS Temperature Control ("Joe Stone")
  Chicago Brewpubs (Philip Gravel)
  5L Keglets (smc7365)
  Peltier Junctions for cooling (Bob Adamczyk ph2745)
  Re: WANTED: Beer Judging Info, Please (Chuck Cox)
  Re: Primary is sucking air (thirsty brew) (Shane Jensen)
  Recipe Info ("Michael C. Lammon")
  INBOX Message (See Below) (Mailer.MC1)
  Comments on Priming Primer (David Draper)
  Ring Around The Bottle (Richard A Childers)
  AHA Homebrew Comps. (David Allison 225-5764)
  dispensing equipment (SYSOP)
  Mailing yeast simply (Domenick Venezia)
  Handles/ CO2 life/ Fresh Hop Use/ Steam juicer/ Yeast Book/ Cut Credits (COYOTE)
  re: labels, out of control (Dick Dunn)
  hi and question (Kristy J. Wiland)
  Bottle filler problem (Phil Miller)
  Cask Conditioned Ales (CliffR3500)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: 29 Sep 94 21:46:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Head Retention and Irish Moss

David writes:
        - other references to head retention that I have found in HBD are:
                1) trace elements, #492
                2) don't over sparge, #500
                3) don't use Irish moss, #534
                4) use fresh hops, #645
                5) hops as source of protein for head retention, #1295

I think that your initial conclusions are the most important ones, namely,
protein rests at the low end of the proteolytic range reduce head retention,
medium-length proteins are required for head retention, you must have *some*
carbonation to create the initial head (unless you are handpumping your ale),
and that wheat can help.

However, although I've read about and experienced increased (apparent) body
from high hop rates, and have read about hops helping increase head retention,
I'm quite sure that it is not proteins in the hops that are responsible.  Also,
in another HBD not mentioned above (well, maybe it was private mail), George
Fix reported on some experiments he did with Irish Moss.  Head retention was
one of the factors and it was found that different amounts and types of
Irish Moss affected head retention differently.  I'm sure this will all be
written up in his upcoming book, but the bottom line was that refined flakes
were the best and that 1/8 gram per liter was (in my opinion of the data)
the best amount, considering clarity, sedimentation and foam stand (head
retention).  Of course there are always tradeoffs and you might feel that
1/16 gram per liter is more to your liking.  By the way, I weighed 1/8 gram
of refined Irish Moss flakes and found that it's about 1 level teaspoon.
So, let's not be so quick to judge (as I have in the past) Irish Moss as
a detractor from head retention.

Al.

Return to table of contents


Date: 30 Sep 94 08:42 CST
From: Wolfe at act-12-po.act.org
Subject: 1994 THIRSTY

     On November 19th, 1994, The Honorable Iowa River Society of Talented
Yeastmasters (THRISTY), will hold an AHA sanctioned homebrew competition in
Iowa City, Iowa.  Amateur brewers can enter any homebrewed beer or mead in
any of the AHA style categories.  Judges will be members of the AHA's Beer
Judge Certification Program.  First, second, and third place ribbons will
be awarded in each category, and first place winners will be advanced to
Best of Show judging.  The Best of Show Runner-up will receive a $30 gift
certificate for brewing supplies and an engraved plaque.  The Best of Show
winner will receive a $50 gift certificate for brewing supplies, an
engraved plaque, and a paid entry into the first round of the 1995 AHA
National Homebrew Competition.  Entries are due by November 10th, 1994.

     Entry forms and information for the 1994 THIRSTY Homebrew Competition
can be obtained by calling Ed Wolfe, the competition organizer, at (319)
643-7354 or via email at:

     wolfe at act-12-po.act.org

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Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 19:26:18 PDT
From: Scott_Pisani at notes.pw.com
Subject: Shiner Bock


On two (relatively) recent trips to Austin, TX, I was lucky enough to try 
Shiner Bock, a beer made in Shiner, TX by the Spoetzl Brewing Company.  It's 
a real find, but unfortunately only sold in Austin, San Antonio, and 
Dallas-Fort Worth, or so I'm told.

Have any of HBD's Texas subscribers made an attempt at replicating this 
beer?  If so, I'd be interested in seeing the recipe.  Other than flaked 
maize, I don't know any of the specific ingredients in the real thing.  My 
only attempt (from memory) brewed a bock that was unremarkable except for its 
10.5% alchohol content.

Thanks in advance.  Either emailed or posted info is fine.


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Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 13:51:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Rae <xray at CAM.ORG>
Subject: Kegging Questions


Hello fellow brewers,

I've been lurking in the shadows of the HBD absorbing the great wealth of 
knowledge of the hbd folk and have summoned the courage to pose a 
question.  I've made the decision to keg my brew and I am looking for 
some technical help in regards to keg preferences.  I'll preface my 
question by saying that I have read Miller, Papazian, the Keg FAQ and 
about 250+ back issues of the HBD in search of keg info to help me make 
this decision.

And now my earth shattering question:  What is the inherent differences 
between ball lock and pin lock cornelius kegs, and why is one preferred 
over the other.  (I plan to use these types of kegs in my setup).

P.S.  A great many thanks to everyone that posts on the HBD.  Using the 
old HBDs and the FAQs are a tremendous learning tool to make this a 
wonderful hobby.  I've accumulated 130+ pages of kegging type info that I 
am sifting through for my own purposes as kind of my own FAQ.  TIA

Back to the shadows

Robert Ray
"Wherever you go, there you are"

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Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 16:57:29 -0500
From: Mike Rubino <Mike.Rubino at agile.com>
Subject: None

Please sign me up for the digest.
mrubino at agile.com

Thanks



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Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 15:07:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrei Fintescu <eaou288 at ea.oac.uci.edu>
Subject: re: pumpkin

in response to Tom's question of how to add pumpkin to the ferment:

an easy way is to get a can of Libby's pumpkin (it is 100% real pumpkin, 
nothing added, no presertatives etc.).  You can freeze it to sterilize, 
or maybe even cook it a bit.  This might create a haze, but I put mine in a 
dark brown ale so it don't matter.  Then, just toss it in and let the 
yeasty beasties go at it.  I know Buffalo Bill's puts the pumpkin for 
their Ale through a mash, but this seems pretty unnecessary in obtaining 
a good pumpkin flavor.
Have fun.

BEER FOR PEACE!!!

Andrei

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Date: Fri, 30 Sep 94 17:29:05 PDT
From: "Joe Stone" <JSTONE at SJEVM5.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: RIMS Temperature Control

  I've been soliciting input regarding RIMS-like systems.  And I've
received some wonderful responses.  There seems to be two basic
approaches to temperature control in the recirculating path:  one
is a "proportional" control by which the power delivered to the
heating element is varied between zero and some maximum value
(typically on the order of 1000 watts); the other approach seems to
rely simply on a relay (i.e. the heating element is either on or
off).  Both approaches can be automated or manual.

  The proportional control must offer advantages over the relay-ed
approach.  Less chance of scorching?  Less chance of overshoot?
Longer element life?  Are the advantages worth the added complexity?

Joe

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Date: Fri, 30 Sep 94 22:16 CDT
From: pgravel at mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Chicago Brewpubs

===> Ted Benning asks about Brewpubs in the Chicago area:

>I have heard that there are more than one brewpub in the Chicago area.  
>Has anyone come across any good pubs and if so, any good brews???

Here's the list I've compiled:

Chicago Area Brewpubs
- ---------------------

GOOSE ISLAND BREWERY - At 1800 N. Clyborn Ave. on the near north side of
Chicago.  One of the best anywhere, in fact.  Always a good lineup of
specialty beers.  Good food too.

THE WEINKELLER - There are two in the western suburbs.  The original is
in Berwyn and latest addition is in Westmont.  (Yes, they are brewpubs
in spite of their names.)

TAYLOR BREWING - Located in Fifth Avenue Station in the far western
suburb of Naperville.  It is right by the Burlington Northern railroad
station, just east of Washington St.

MILLROSE BREWING - Located in the northwest suburb of Hoffman Estates
or South Barrington right off of the Northwest Tollway on Barrington Rd.
(take the northbound exit).

BREWMASTER'S PUB - Kenosha Wisconsin.  Just a stone's throw across the
state line up in Wisconsin, not far off I-94.  Excellent food, and new
brewers have really improved the beer.  In a picturesque, rambling
former barn.


Best Beer Bars
- --------------

O'CALLAHAN'S - Hubbard at Dearborn, Downtown Chicago.  Crowded on
weekdays after work; quiet and relaxing on weekends.  8 taps including
Pilsner Urquel.  Simple bar food.

BLUE CRAB LOUNGE/SHAW'S CRAB HOUSE - Hubbard at Wabash, Downtown
Chicago.  A half dozen oysters go so well with a pint of a good hoppy
microbrewery beer.  Very very good, but expensive, seafood on the
restaurant menu.

QUENCHERS - Fullerton at Western, Chicago (just west of the Kennedy
Expwy (I-94) at Fullerton exit).  About 15 taps, about 200 different
bottled beers.  A classic Chicago noisy corner tavern that discovered
good beer, but remains a noisy, friendly, corner tavern.  No food.

THE RED LION - On Lincoln Ave is strong on atmosphere and food, and
decent on beer.

LION'S HEAD INN - 13101 South Olde Western Ave, Blue Island.  Worth the
trip to this out-of-the-way southern suburb.  13 taps all with top-notch
micros from all coasts.  Good Italian food; speakeasy atmosphere.
Closed Sunday evening.

GREAT BEER PALACE - On Lincoln Ave near the German area; keep going
northwest for German food and more.  30+ beers on tap.

THE VILLAGE INN - In Roscoe Village area of Chicago.  Also has 30+ beers
on tap.

THE HOP LEAF - (of no ethnic variety) has the best beer selections in
the city.

THE DUKE OF PERTH - is more or less in the same category as the Red Lion.

- ------
Compiled from information provided by:

Roger Deschner     R.Deschner at uic.edu
Jim Kingsberg             jdk at tntvax.ntrs.com
William Behun         wabehun at merle.acns.nwu.edu
                   wilson2445 at delphi.com
 ..and me             pgravel at mcs.com

- -- 
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel                                 pgravel at mcs.com

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Date:  Sat, 01 Oct 94 10:22:52
From: <smc7365 at prdc.prdc.dukepower.com>
Subject: 5L Keglets

 STEVEN M CHANDLER  WCQIP PROJECT 17 WORK ORIGINATION & WORKFLOW
 WORK CONTROL TECH SUPPORT   MAIL CODE:WC1789-05
 PHONE: 382-1425  FAX: 382-1245  COMPUSERVE: 73404,3474
 SUBJECT: 5L Keglets
 <homebrew>:homebrew at hpfcmi.fc.hp.com

 I've been reading HBD for several weeks and have gathered a lot of valuable
 information. Thanks to all.

 I'd like to recap my experiences with the 5L keglets. I've been using them for
 about a year and like them very much. I think they are a great adjuct to
 bottles or the standard Cornelius keg. I do not use them exclusively, however,
 because I like to provide a bottle or two to friends or introduce folks to
 their first taste of homebrew.

 To answer Sturdy's (if I may be so familiar) question about sanitation: I've
 had the best luck with B-Brite. I've had no infections whatsoever. The last
 batch (which will be tapped this afternoon :) ) was sanitized with Clorox and
 B-Brite. I probably went overboard on that, but it's better than losing a
 batch. I sanitize the bungs the same way.

 If anyone is going to start using the keglets, I spend the bucks on the metal
 type tappers vs the plastic ones. I had to have my plastic one replaced due
 to leakage. My HB supplier finally ended up doing the recall thing and gave
 everyone a refund/credit. I purchased my metal one that way. Tried it the
 next day and was able to dispense two keglets from one CO2 cylinder! Joy!!

 Anyway, those are my thoughts and methods. Hope it helps!

 Happy Brewing!

 STEVE CHANDLER
 **************************************************************
 YOU GOTTA BE TOUGH IF YOU'RE GONNA BE STUPID...


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Date: Sat, 1 Oct 94 11:20:14 EDT
From: adamczyk at bns101.bng.ge.com (Bob Adamczyk ph2745)
Subject: Peltier Junctions for cooling

 Right... your're immediately asking what's a Peltier Junction and why
 do I care if it doesn't make my beer taste better.

 
Actually, a Peltier junction is a small square of some mysterious 
sandwich of semiconductor metal which gets really cold on one side 
and really hot on the other side when you run a few amps of current  
through it.  (the cold side gets colder if you sink away the heat 
on the hot side).   So what?  You`ve probably seen those adds for the 
rectangular picnic coolers that keep stuff hot (or cold), plug into 
the cigarette lighter in your car, AND cost $99 ?
 

Well, if you wrapped a carboy in some insulation, and added some sort 
of thermostat to control on/off, one of these little hummers would 
probably serve as a pretty good refrigeration device for maintaining 
lager-type temperatures (or even brewing ale in the dog days of summer).  
Or maybe with the right amount of clever plumbing, this might make a 
neat, small wort chiller.
 
Any wizard brewers out there who are already using one of these ? 
If any of you electronic merlins are interested, I have some company 
names and phone nos of mail order houses that sell these (prices range 
from $20 to $30 each), which I could provide via private e-mail.


Bob Adamczyk
adamczyk at bns101.bng.ge.com
Beartown Bitter - brewed in the remote hills of Port Crane NY 
from unchlorinated and unfluoridated water (ever wonder what fluoridating 
does to beer ?)



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Date: Sat, 1 Oct 94 11:18:00 EDT
From: chuck at synchro.com (Chuck Cox)
Subject: Re: WANTED: Beer Judging Info, Please

Roy Harvey sez...
> 
> I'm interested in finding out more about becoming a beer judge.  What
> are the requirements (oh, this should be funny! ;-).  Seriously:
> 
>   * How does someone become a certified beer judge?
>   * I assume there is a test, what are the study materials?
>   * What are the steps involved?

It must be time to plug JudgeNet again...

- ----------------------------- JudgeNet -------------------------------

JudgeNet is the Beer Judge Digest.  This is an Internet mailing list
dedicated to the discussion of issues of interest to beer judges and
competition organizers.  Anyone with an interest in judging or
organizing beer competitions is welcome to join. 

JudgeNet is published daily when articles are available.  Currently
about 60 articles per month are distributed to over 300 subscribers
worldwide. 

The JudgeNet archives are available via FTP and WWW.  The latest edition
of the Unofficial BJCP Exam Study Guide is available in the archives. 

JudgeNet is published by SynchroSystems and the Riverside Garage &
Brewery and edited by BJCP Master Beer Judge Chuck Cox
(chuck at synchro.com). 

For subscription information, send an empty message to:
judge-request@ synchro.com

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

- -- 
Chuck Cox   <chuck at synchro.com>
SynchroSystems / Riverside Garage & Brewery - Cambridge, Mass.
A disarmed citizen is an oppressed citizen.

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Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 10:46:56 -0700 (MST)
From: Shane Jensen <jensen at as.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Primary is sucking air (thirsty brew)

> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 94 17:40:35 EDT
> From: Kevin McCall <Kevin.Mccall at analog.com>
> Subject: Primary is sucking air (thirsty brew)
> 
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Sunday afternoon - sealed primary fermenter
> Monday morning   - lock has settled on to the vent tube
> Monday night	 - lock empty of water, add more
> Tuesday morning  - "                            "
> Tuesday night    - lock empty. I pour water in and WATCH the fermentation 
> 			lock devour the water.  I'm serious.  I repeatedly
> 			poured water in and watched the lock suck it up
> 			in less than a minute.  Popped the top on the 
> 			fermenter.  Smelled fine and nothing leapt out at me.
> 			Boiled two ounces of yeast nutrient and threw it in.
> 			Also pitched, without a starter, another vial of yeast.
> 			(What do I have to lose now but the yeast?). 
> 			Stirred and Resealed. 
> 
> Wednesday morning
> Wednesday night
> Thursday morning  - My brew is still very thirsty and will drink what I give

Kevin,

I noticed that my fermentor was doing the same thing.  After a little bit of
investigation, I deduced that it was being caused by temperature variations
in my apartment.  When it was warmer, the air in the fermenter would expand
and then when the apartment cooled, the air contracted sucking in air and
water from the lock.  It only takes a 5 degree temperature change to do this
when there is no pressure building up inside the fermenter.

It's an idea to consider.

Cheers!

Shane
- --
                 \                	            
   To go        o/\__                   Shane Jensen 
 where only    < \__,\                 (602) 621-2054   
lizards have     "> . |              Steward Observatory     
gone before.     `   .-\            jensen at as.arizona.edu
                      . |


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Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 13:36:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael C. Lammon" <umcl1 at sunyit.edu>
Subject: Recipe Info

Hello fellow homebrewers,

	I have been brewing for about 2 1/2 years now, and I think it's
the greatest!  I've only been making dark beers, which I love. I was
wondering if someone had a good light looking beer like a Coors Light..
but with a good kick to it.. The truth of the matter is I would like to
get my better-half into it but she hates dark beer.  

Thanks , Mike L!

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Please Leave Me A Message Via E-Mail And I Will Promptly Get Back To You.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                             | umcl1 at sunyit.edu |
                             -------------------


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Date: 1 Oct 94 12:48:56 U
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Subject: Homebrew Digest #1540 (September 30, 1994)



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Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 10:03:02 +1000 (EST)
From: David Draper <David.Draper at mq.edu.au>
Subject: Comments on Priming Primer


- -- 
******************************************************************************
David S. Draper, School of Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, NSW 2109
Sydney, Australia. email: david.draper at mq.edu.au fax: +61-2-850-8428
             ....I'm not from here, I just live here....

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Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 17:51:44 -0700
From: pascal at netcom.com (Richard A Childers)
Subject: Ring Around The Bottle


"Date: Wed, 28 Sep 94 7:35:03 EDT
 From: abaucom at fester.swales.com
 Subject: bottle infections...

"I once read that if you have a ring around the neck of your bottles (at 
 the liquid line) that was undeniably an infection signal..."


Not universally true.

Generally speaking, with respect to ecologies and micro-ecologies, the
boundaries are particularly rich with evolutionary opportunities. That is,
life flourishes where air and water meet ... where water and land meet ...
where land and air meet.

In particular, the junction of all three - solid/liquid/gas - is even more
abundantly provided with opportunities. Consider, for example, the common
ocean beach, where water, air, and land all meet, to the common benefit of
organisms specialized to all three mediums.

Now, shrink this perspective down to a bottle, instead of a world. The same
rules still apply, basically. That boundary - technically referred to as the
'meniscus', I believe - is not only a very small micro-ecology in itself,
but is also a logical collecting place for any micro-debris which accrue on
the surface ( what is known in naval parlance as 'flotsam' ) and float about,
just as the beach collects much debris which is not itself living.

So, if you added any strange substances that might not be totally miscible
with what is predominantly a water-based substance, such as flavoring agents
which contain oils ... then, yes, you are pretty likely to have a ring.


"I have some mead that has been bottled for about 6-8 months and before
 that it was in a secondary for 6-8 months...Here's the wierd thing...
 all the mead bottles have a thin white consistant ring right at the liquid
 line but the mead is FANTASTIC... If it IS infected...then 3 cheers for
 infections..."

Interesting. Certainly, if the human race hasn't categorized all of the
plants or animals or marine species of the planet Earth, there is no reason
why it should be assumed that all of the microflora and microfauna have been
identified ... never mind all of the possible beneficial relationships and
uses which might accrue with respect to such critters.

So, maybe it's worth tucking a few samples away in the freezer ... trying to
culture it for future uses ... and trying to get a look at it under a really
powerful microscope, at a college somewhere.

< Insert obligatory reference to cartoon of microbiologist peering into a
  microscope, seeing paramecia spelling out the message, "Take us to your
  leader" ... and *how* many of you are vegetarians ? :->


- -- richard

    "I gathered I wasn't very well liked. Somehow, the feeling pleased me."
		    _Nine Princes In Amber_, by Roger Zelazny

   richard childers        san francisco, california        pascal at netcom.com

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Date: Fri, 30 Sep 1994 12:18:00 -0800 (PST)
From: David Allison 225-5764 <ALLISON.DAVID at A1GW.GENE.COM>
Subject: AHA Homebrew Comps.


MONTHS AGO -- I entered a beer, representing my homebrew club, into a AHA 
sponsored club-only homebrew competition.  More specifically the "Stout 
Bout" put on by the Gold Country Brewers.  I never received my score sheet. 
I don't even think my $5.00 check was cashed (but I am not sure).  When I 
called to see if my beer had arrived safely -- I was told that due to the 
amount of entries that they did not have that info (????).  After the 
competition, I called to see how my beer did and was told only the 1st, 
2nd, and 3rd place finishers were known and the rest of the results were 
sent to the AHA.  Well... now I have waited quite a while for something 
sign that my beer had arrived and judged.  I now know why my homebrew club 
is hesitant to put on any of the AHA competitions.

Martin -- did you ever receive the final results?

James Spence (AHA) -- have these results been sent out?

Did my effort to send my bottles of an excellent stout (IMHO) to a AHA 
competition go without any return of information?  I guess not.

Will I ever go through the hassle of entering a beer into an AHA sponsored 
club-only competition outside my immediate area?  I think not. 

On another note...  I receive my issue of Zymurgy a month after my local 
homebrew shops get theirs.  Should I bother to send my membership money to 
the AHA?  I'm wondering...

 - David



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Date: Fri, 30 Sep 94 19:09:00 -0500
From: barry.miller at bigapple.pcinfo.com (SYSOP)
Subject: dispensing equipment

In HBD1539, Tony Urban asked:

 ->Since I'm planning my annual fall camping trip, I must consider my beer
 ->needs. Does anybody have any suggestions on dispensing equipment, such as
 ->kegs (CO2 or hand pump) or other such dispensing equipment?  I could bring
 ->bottles but would rather not.  I guess it's just an inconvenience thing of
 ->lugging 24 or so bottles for the weekend.  I'd rather just have 2-3 gallons
 ->and some kind of pumping mechanism for homebrew-on-draft-by-the-campfire. Any
 ->thoughts on where to get such equipment or modify existing keg setups?

Tony the answer to your question is found in 2 words, Party Pig.  The pig is a
2 1/4 PET plastic oblong sphere which when assembled contains disposable pouch
that inflates as beer is dispensed.  As a result no air enters the pig and beer
stays fresh.  The pig is filled at bottling timeand primed as usual though
less priming sugar or DME should be used.  You then insert the pouch cap the
unit with the dispensing valve and wait a week or so.  if you have to lug 2-3
gallons of beer with you this is ideal.  No additional dispensing equipment is
needed.  The pig goes for around $35.00 and the pouches about $3.50 per fill.
An additional benefit is that it fits nicely on the shlef of a standard
refrigerator and is perfect for taking to a friends for weekend football or
parties. Even though I have a corny keg setup, I still use my Party pig and
like it very much.

Barry Miller
barry.miller at bigapple.pcinfo.com

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Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 08:21:41 +48000
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia at zgi.com>
Subject: Mailing yeast simply

I'd like to share a yeast mailing trick that David Draper in Sydney,
Australia and I (in Seattle,WA,USA) used recently to ship some lager
yeast.  It's so easy that it's scarey.  David got a 4" round filter paper
from the lab, put it in his shirt pocket (!!) and took it home. At home he
smeared a sample of yeast from a slant in the center of the filter paper
using an alcohol wiped metal probe, circled the spot with a felt pen, then
put the filter paper in a brand new ziplock baggie and put it in an
envelope and mailed it to me. 

David mailed it on 4Sept, I left the country for a week on 9Sept and got
back on the 17th and found the envelope on my desk.  I did not plate it
until 25Sept (because I didn't think it would work), 3 weeks after Dave
mailed it. 

When plating it I just used tap water and a flamed loop to moisten the
yeast spot then streaked a plate on faith since I couldn't see anything on
the loop.  As insurance I cut a 1/4" strip out of the filter paper across
the spot and folded the strip across the spot and used the strip to streak
another plate. 

One week later I had very nice plates.  The loop streaked plate had
perfect widely separated colonies with absolutely no visible contamination
(even after 10 days), neither fungi nor bacterial.  The strip streaked
plate had about 5 times the number of colonies and a single small spot of
mold.  I will streak from a colony on the first plate, then one more
generation before I declare it pure.

Obviously the Draper's take their laundry VERY seriously because even
after a day in Dave's shirt the filter paper stayed sanitary.  Next 
time I suggest putting the fiter paper directly in a new ziplock baggie,
then into the shirt pocket.  After thinking about it I realized that 
new ziplock baggies are probably sterile or nearly so.  Manufacturing
uses heat and they are targeted at food storage.

DISCLAIMER:  I have not yet brewed with this yeast.  I suppose it is
possible that although it looks like a brewing yeast, walks like a 
brewing yeast, and quacks like a brewing yeast, it could be a wild
Australian yeast, or even (sorry Dave) some yeast resident on Mr.
Draper himself.  But I don't think so since the level of general 
contamination is so low, particularly because of the absence of any
bacterial contamination.  

When I do a test brew with it, and if the yeast turns out to be bad, I
will certainly follow up with a retraction.

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia at zgi.com




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Date: Sun, 02 Oct 1994 10:40:27 -0600 (MDT)
From: COYOTE <SLK6P at cc.usu.edu>
Subject: Handles/ CO2 life/ Fresh Hop Use/ Steam juicer/ Yeast Book/ Cut Credits

Question RE: carboy carriers.  With all the talking up lately I broke down ;)
and went out a got a couple.  I know it came up before ...but...
7 gal acid bottles:  I remember there was concern about whether they worked-
I also remember people sed- Yo!  So...WHere do you attach them?  Seems
like the threaded part of the neck with take it, but it doesn't seem that 
secure for carrying a full one.  Can you bend out the ring and hook it around
the neck lower down?  I'd prefer that- but don't want to stress the bottle
or the metal.  Basicaly I don't want to stress at all.   Anyone- anyone?

***
RE: CO2 life-  just a reminder for ya'll:  The regulator reading on a full
CO2 tank will read whatever it reads untill all the LIQUID CO2 is used up,
THEN the pressure starts to drop.  

POINT:  CO2 is stored in the pressurized tank as a liquid.  
It emerges as a gas.

CAUTION: NEVER store your CO2 tank (in use) sideways, or you run the risk of
LIQUID CO2 entering your keg, then vaporizing= Potential EXPLOSION.
	You think exploding glass is bad? Imagine SHRAPNEL ! Could Kill !

SO-  Weight is the key to determining the amount of CO2 in your tank.
Mine sits about 40 pounds full, and about 20 #'s MT.  Get a cheap scale.

Also as a precaution, mine is hooked to the wall by a bungee cord- in case
of earthquakes, or clumsy brewbuds!  Especially important when the regulator
is attached.  You know what happens to a balloon when you let it go?
Imagine a 50# mass of metal spinning like a top.  Not a good thing!

LEAKS:  I commonly suffered from them.  A cheap leak detector solution is 
made from SOAP and WATER.  Then put it in a squirt bottle, or squirt gun.
A bit of teflon tape, fresh washers on all connectors...
Personally-  I'd rather save the CO2.  Lost a whole tank once.  So now I get
my kegs all pressurized, then drop them to serving pressure and dispense.
Every now and then I pop on the CO2 and repressurize to 5 or 10 psi and 
dispense some more.  It's really easy enough, and yeah- at a pahty under
constant use leave it hooked up for easy use and flow.
A full CO2 tank lasts many months for me, even with purging carboys and such.

***
Fresh Hops use:  Recently there's been a slam or two on the use of fresh hops
RE: grassy flavors...etc.  I piss in you general direction.
I love that fresh cascade grassy flavor and AIM to get it in dry hopped brews.
YMMV.   But that's not my problem.

FWIW; I've used my homegrown hops- dried, AND fresh off the vine for finishing
and have liked it either way.  I think I will continue to dry them, both for
storage, and for the sake of reducing any "green" flavors.  But to slam NEW
hops as being TOO fresh-  eh...you're just jealous!  

***
QUESTION:  Anyone out there ever used a STEAM JUICER for extracting
juice from fruits for fermenting?  I have been thinking of constructing a 
fruit press, but have seen those steam juicers in stores (for pretty cheap)
For those who don't know, it's alike a double boiler with a tube coming 
out of the top pot to collect juice.

What I wonnder is: 1.  How do they work.  2. Does the steam heat cause 
pectins to set, or is that now a problem, cuz no pulp comes through.
3. Does it make for good juice for wines, fruit beers, meads...etc.

I have a juicer- separates pulp from juice by a spinning strainer thingy-
but   1.  It's tedious. One piece of fruit at a  time.  Too slow!
Especially when dealing with buckets full of garden fruits.
2. The resulting juice is so pulpy that it never settles well, and I end
up losing a lot of juice in a mass of pulp. 

Info- public or private would be appreciated.
***

Anyone seen Pierre Rajotes newer YEAST CULTURING book?  It sounds A LOT 
better than Rog Leistads (which I personally don't care for), hence it 
carries a lot BIGGER price tag.  (~$5 vs ~$25!).  I have a hard time forking
out more than $10 for a brewing book- Choice of brew supplies vs.texts...hmm

Anyone have it?  COuld you give me (us) your review/opinion.
Also being from a canadian author (caution in the first place -chuckle  :)
is it based on european units?  Or does it cover american units also?

***
Finally-  I've noticed a new trend which I PERSONALLY don't care for.
People are taking conversations/questions/responses to e-mail.
THIS (I think) is a good thing.  MY problem- is they are coming back and
listing credits of who helped them.  

I see it is one thing to list a summary of responses- that's fine, helpful,
but just to list the names of who responded in e-mail....cum-on!
I know we all like to see our names up in lights, appearing on monitors
across the country, but really....what's the point here?!   
	1. Has nothing to do with brewing, 2. is not at all educational.
If you want to thank people. Great do so.  Type REPLY after reading their
message,  then type THANKS.  Sufficient!  If you want to summarize, do so-
credits are very appropriate at this time, but just listing names...please no!

My personal plea-  CUT THE CREDITS!  

Well, b-duh-bduh-bduh....that's all folks!

	\-/-\ John (The Coyote) Wyllie  SLK6P at cc.usu.edu \-/-\  

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Date: 2 Oct 94 12:52:18 MDT (Sun)
From: rcd at raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: re: labels, out of control

HEWITT at arcges.arceng.com wrote about labels:

> Three cheers to Nuttings Lake Publishing.  Good service deserves
> highlighting to fellow users.  I recently made my first order for beer
> labels (ad in Zymurgy) and recieved my order priority mail almost before
> the check cleared.  Very refreshing.  (no affiliation, etc.)

I've always wondered about the Nuttings Lake ads.  I'm glad to hear they
give good service...for the price they charge, they ought to!  They adver-
tise $39.95 for 100 labels, which is to say 40 cents a label.  That's a
lot...I can't imagine using labels like that except for "presentation"
(special gift) bottles...but in that case I wouldn't want a generic label
for my "brewery"; I'd want a label specific to the batch, so the quantity
100 doesn't help.

Unless you're brewing extract and using large bottles, these labels are
going to be the most expensive part of a batch of beer.  Hey, if the
labels are what give that final touch, that makes it happen for your
brewing, then who am I to argue?  But I'm still seriously puzzled about
why one would want to spend as much on the "packaging" as on the contents.
 ---
Dick Dunn    rcd at eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd    Boulder, Colorado USA
   ...Simpler is better.

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Date: Sun, 2 Oct 94 16:08:28 EDT
From: Kristy J. Wiland <eng4kjw at hibbs.vcu.edu>
Subject: hi and question

hi.. im a brand new homebrewer... 
just now drinking my first batch.. a wonderful all grain oatmeal
stout which my mentor ( a brewer for 5 years) says is worthy of
entering in a competition.. hes a great teacher
anyway.. we were talking the other night about different adjuncts and
tossed around the idea of peanuts...
has anyone ever tried using them? howd it work out?
he says he has tried belgain ales with hazelnuts that he enjoyed, but
had never heard of trying peanuts...
are they starchy enough to put into the mash with any practical
results... (will they make sugars?) or could they be put into the
fermenter .. crushed maybe.. or prehaps using an all natural peanut
butter? or could either be effectively put in the biol, or somehow
extracted? would the oil foul the beer.. we agreed it would probally
could it so would more than likely make a darker beer with them..
maybe a brown ale? any input would be appreciated.. we want to try
this experiment but wouldnt want to make a big undrinkable mess...

thanx in advance
wascal
brewer of kallisti black gold oatmeal stout and soon to be other
nummy beverages

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Date:         Sat, 01 Oct 94 09:21:40 CDT
From: Phil Miller <C616063 at MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject:      Bottle filler problem

I own a bottle filler; a 1' plastic tube with an orange contraption on the
bottom that contains a stopping mechanism. My last few brews have been
damaged due to this filler. At times, it sticks, sending my precious brew spil-
ling to the floor. I have been unable to get it to stop sticking. Any ideas
how I may get this thing to stop being so temperamental? BTW, it is not
spring-driven.

                         Phil Miller
                         Dept. of Economics
                         University of Missouri, Columbia
                         Internet: c616063 at mizzou1.missouri.edu

                         "In the long run, we're all dead".
                         John Maynard Keynes

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Date: Sun, 02 Oct 94 19:40:46 EDT
From: CliffR3500 at aol.com
Subject: Cask Conditioned Ales

Hello All,
 
I am trying to do my best to create a "cask conditioned" ale short of buying
a wooden cask and a beer engine. I was wondering what others brewers have
done to imitate this style. Right now I am using 5 gallon soda kegs and
carbonating to about 1-1.5 atmospheres CO2 at about 55 degrees (the
temperature of my cellar in the winter ). I would like to let my beer come in
contact with the air, but I don't want to have to drink all my beer in a day
or two. It works for parties, but not day to day drinking. Has anyone thought
up something that works better? I am also curious, does anyone have an idea
of what could be used as a _sparkler_ for a regular soda keg tap? I have not
actually seen one, but I guess it is something that restricts the flow of the
beer from the tap, causing agitation that gives the beer a nice, tight, foamy
head.

I welcome any and all suggestions, private e-mail is great, and thanks!

Cliff Riggs


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1542, 10/03/94