FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor


Contents:
  Lauter Tun Out Of Cooler ("Robert W. Mech")
  Wit beer (BrewerLee)
  Sam Houston vs. Sam Adams (BrewerLee)
  Oktoberfest Brew/Recipies/Improvemnts/Specific Gravity (GILBERTG)
  Re: Oldest Barleywine HBD #1565 ("Peter Gothro")
  Uses for hop vines (Mark Evans)
  head retention ("KEVIN A. KUTSKILL")
  Brewferm Kits (Craig Mcpherson)
  BruTemp Digital Temperature Probe (BILL MARKS)
  Found - The perfect pump! (BILL MARKS)
  Filtering problems (BILL MARKS)
  In defence of hardcopy edition (kasperow)
  European suppliers (Lenny Garfinkel)
  Red Wolf (Btalk)
  HBD hardcopy (BrewerLee)
  HBD Hardcopy (BrewerLee)
  stoves,UPS,PT wood and hardcopies (Bob Adamczyk ph2745)
  Storing hop plugs (James Gallagher)
  Koch again (Michael Sharp)
  Corny Keg Poppet Problem Solved (Dion Hollenbeck)
  Re: Something new? from A-B (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
  Re: HBD Hardcopy Edition & Copyright Law (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
  Re: Jim Koch's Latest Antics (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
  Red WOOF Lager ("NAME SEAN O'KEEFE, IFAS FOOD SCIENCE")
  the Philmill?? ("Timothy P. Laatsch)
  Evaporative lager cooling & other horror stories... (pittock)



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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 04:54:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Robert W. Mech" <rwmech at eagle.ais.net>
Subject: Lauter Tun Out Of Cooler

Greetings Folks.  Recently Ive wanted to start going all grain.  Im not 
even NEAR an expert in this field.  Thus ive done some reading and such 
and found that Lauter Tun's can be made from a cooler.  (No surprise, you 
all knew that right?).  Ok, let me get to the point here.  Saving money 
for *ME* was the key to going all grain, I didnt want to spend a fortune 
again (not that I havent already) to go all grain.  So I found some 
intresting parts that I thought were inexpensive that I would share with 
those of you thinking of making your own lauter tun with a cooler.

The first part was called an "Easy Masher", they have this at Alternative 
Garden Supply (No Sales plug intended).  Im sure other beer stores will 
carry it also.  It comes complete with a copper spigot and a 6" copper 
tube with mesh over it for inside the cooler.  It was retail for $20.

So basicly, instant lauter ton for $20 and a cooler.

However I found they they also sell a "Sprayer" for $15.  What this does 
simply is when sparging with water, you can more evenly disperse it with 
this rotating shaft (Looks like a sprinkler) which rotates around and 
depenses water throught your cooler.  They carried this too at AGS.
Any comments from people on the efficency of such device are more than 
welcome.  

Im going to put this all together next weekend, and see how well it works 
out.  Either way I thought that this was one of the least expensive ways 
to get my own lauter tun.  If somone has other inexpensive ideas of 
making one.  Please let me know.

Somone also mentioned that coolers might melt.  Ive got my water heater 
set for 170F all the time, and its never even gotten my cooler (coleman) 
soft, Boiling is 220F And it didnt phase it either.  Even without 
"Industrial" on the side. :-)  I tested this by just letting boiling 
water sit in there for about an hour.


- -----------------------

As a side note.  Does anyone have any inexpensive ways of preparing the 
grains for lauter tun?  Somone said "Use a meat grinder".  Other ideas 
anyone?

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Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 11:44:25 -0400
From: BrewerLee at aol.com
Subject: Wit beer

Jeff Michalski asks in HBD 1563:

 > Does anyone have any experience in the cooking/gelatinization
 > of raw wheat prior to a Wit biere mash?
 > Is this necessary or will a find grind suffice?
 > If it is necessary, how is it done?

Jeff,

This has been answered to death in the past couple of HBD's but I just wanted
to tell you myself and save some face! :)

I posted that gelatinization was in order for wheat.  I wanted to cover my
ass for the next time that someone wanted to do a single temp infusion mash
and came out with a bucket of goo!

Regardless of the type of mash you do, a protein rest is essential to break
down the starches in the wheat but you don't want to break down all of them.
 If you do an infusion mash with a protein rest for 45 minutes at 122 degrees
you will break down the starches to the point where you can still lauter but
will still get a good color in your beer.  Some unconverted starches is what
gives the Wit it's characteristic "shimmer".  If you are going to do a
decoction, then there is no reason not to cook the grains in your first
decoction.  If you're not, then as long as you get a good grind on the
unmalted wheat it shouldn't be a problem.  The only other thing to consider
here is the oats.  I used cut oats and these needed a considerable cooking
before they were gelatinized so I cooked up all of the adjuncts together.

My feeling was pre-gelatinizing this way I was assured of the gelatinization
of all the grains and results would be more easily reproducible (or changed).

I'm going to go ahead and post this on the digest as well as long as I'm at
it.  

Hoppy Brewing!  (anyone else getting tired of that yet?)  :)


 -Lee C. Bussy
 BrewerLee at aol.com

October 29, 1994
9:46 am


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Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 11:44:42 -0400
From: BrewerLee at aol.com
Subject: Sam Houston vs. Sam Adams

Howdy all!

Been reading with interest this Jim Koch thing.  I had all but blown off all
of his past transgressions as the machinations of a spoiled rich kid making a
name for himself and I _thought_ he had learned his lesson from the
lambasting he has received.  Guess not.

Here's the solution as I see it.  I can't recall the name of the brewery in
Texas but what they ought to do is sue *Koch* in a Texas Federal court (I
know that seems weird, Texas?Federal?, bear with me) for the right to use the
Sam Houston name.  On the grounds it's in the public domain for something
like that.

Here's the explanation (Texans, lower your guns for a moment and read *all*
of this before shooting!):

There seems to be a mentality in Texas of sovereignty or Nationalism in the
Great Nation of Texas that is hard to picture if you've never been there.  If
the smaller brewery were to sue first in a Texas court be it Federal or not,
(perhaps with soft strains of Yellow Rose of Texas playing in the background)
they would no doubt fare favorably.

Picture this:  An older, bearded Texas gentleman in his slow southern way
beseeching the no doubt fair judge to allow these poor Texans the right to
use their forefather's name on a few lowly bottles of beer that are hardly
fair tribute to all the hard work this leader has done for the State of
Texas.  Now picture the panel of attorneys trying to plead their case to the
same judge.  Man, would anyone else like to purchase a video of *that* scene?

Now, I'm not making fun of Texans here, I just think that their way of doing
things sometime are a bit different from the rest of the country.  Wouldn't
it be great to fight Jim Koch on Texas land?

Oh, BTW.  (C) Copyright, 1995 by Lee C. Bussy.  Permission given to copy and
distribute at no cost to the recipient.  There, should I add this to all my
posts now?

 -Lee C. Bussy
 BrewerLee at aol.com

October 29, 1994
10:11 am


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Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 13:53:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: GILBERTG at cofc.edu
Subject: Oktoberfest Brew/Recipies/Improvemnts/Specific Gravity

I am a beginning homebrewer.  To give you an idea of where I am the last 
batch I brewed was an Oktoberfest Brew (the recipe can be found below).
 
 
           Charleston Beer Works Oktoberfest Brew[_not_ tm]
 
Take 1.5 gallons of water and 0.5 pounds of crystal malt in a grain bag and 
bring it to a boil.  Remove the crystal malt grain bag, press, and throw it 
away (compost it, whatever).
 
Add 6 pounds of amber extract, stir mixture well so that it doesn't stick 
to the pot.  Add 1.5 "bags" of Centennial 9.1% hops pellets in a grain bag. 
Boil for at least 30 minutes.  For the last 2 to 5 minutes add the 
remaining 0.5 bag of hops pellets (in a grain bag) for aroma.  Remove the 
hops bags and discard.  (Toss in your compost pile.)
 
Add wort to 3-3.5 gallons of sanitized cool water in fermenter bucket.  Let 
cool and pitch yeast.
 
 
My first question is:  Where can I find some other recipes that require 
minimal effort (for the beginner such as me, i. e. no mashing etc.) but
not "cookbook it"?  If readers are so kind to send them to me privately 
I'll compile them and repost them once a month (or more often if necessary) 
to HBD.
 
My second question is:  How can I alter recipes to improve them etc.  For 
example how does the boiling time affect the wort.  I usually let my wort 
ferment for a week.  If I let it go two will it improve?  What about if I 
bottle immediately after it stops fermenting?  Things like that.
 
My last question is:  How do I calculate alcohol content from specific 
gravity?  An example would be most helpful for me.  Thank you.
 
Feel free to respond via HBD or privately.  Thanks again.

                                                       Greg

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Date:          Sat, 29 Oct 1994 12:16:00 PST8PDT
From: "Peter Gothro" <PGOTHRO at marvin.ag.uidaho.edu>
Subject:       Re: Oldest Barleywine HBD #1565

In HBD 1565, Jeff Stampes asks about "old" barleywines.  Well, I 
happen to be a proud owner of "Smoking Crater Barleywine", produced 
in 1987 by my good friend and excellent brewer Dan.  
    What is it like? Well, the last time I had one was in (probably) 
1988-1/2 -ish.  It was _very_ smooth, good hop flavor/aroma to 
balance the sturdy (i.e., not 'thick' or 'thin'), sweet chocolate 
maltiness.  I haven't opened my bottle for a couple reasons: it was 
here on the west coast while I was on the east coast; I wanted to see 
how it 'aged'; I was waiting for that "special" occasion.  FWIW, the 
last time I had some, it was a good thing I didn't have far to go 
(but then again, with an OG above 1200, what would you expect?).
Mr. Pete

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Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 16:24:32 -0600
From: evanms at lcac1.loras.edu (Mark Evans)
Subject: Uses for hop vines

Here's an idea for those gnarly old hop vines.  If  you still got 'em,
weave them into  wreaths--like those grape vine wreaths you see for way too
much at gift shops and craft fairs.  Then dried herbs and flowers can be
inserted for display. For those of us with NBP's (non-brewing partners)
this can be a real fringe benefit.  My wife--she loves my brew and helps
with the brewing on ocassion--was delighted with the vine wreaths and how
they turned out.

mark evans



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Date: 29 Oct 94 17:51:53 EDT
From: "KEVIN A. KUTSKILL" <75233.500 at compuserve.com>
Subject: head retention

I would like to add to the thanks for the bread recipes utilizing the spent
grains--my first passion related to the almighty "yeasties" was making bread.

However, on to my purpose of using this space.  I have been an extract brewer 
for 5 years, and have made some fine brews (IMHO).  My only recurrent problem
has been a poor head on the finished product.  The carbonation is good, but the
head only lasts for a minute or less.  Papazian's TNCJOHB had a troubleshooting
section on this, and I followed each recommendation (clean glasses, fresh hops, 
etc.) to no avail.  I heard that all-grain brewing adds some additional proteins
that
helps in head retention.  I have just lagered my first all-grain marzen (I cant
wait,
I cant wait, I cant wait!), but is there anything else I am missing? 

TIA for the wisdom I hope will be forthcoming.

Kevin Kutskill, 75233.500 at compuserve.com


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Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 21:54:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Craig Mcpherson <craigm at helios.cae.ca>
Subject: Brewferm Kits

After reading of Sam's experience brewing with Brewferm Kits (he tried 
the Kriek kit) it reminded me of my own experiences using those Belgian 
products.

On two occasions I have brewed their wheat beer kit, each time using two 
cans plus 500g of clover honey. Each time I subjected them to a somewhat  
quick boil (around 15 min), adding the honey right at the end just before 
shutting  off the heat. In both instances I ended up with a highly 
enjoyable blond beer. Early on the honey flavor tends to be apparent,  
however after letting the beer age in the bottles for several months, 
"lactic" notes take on a stronger presence and the honey fades into the 
background.

I'm most curious about whatever advice Sam recieved concerning the length 
of boil of these Brewferm kits, however. This because back in August I 
made a batch of their Jubilee Herb Beer. This seems to be a fairly new 
kit that they've brought on the market and I became curious.

Desirous to see what "herbs" they put in it,  I made the kit "straight", 
using two cans and zero sugar except for bottling. I wonder about the 
boil and whatever factors that may have had on the end result,  however. 
I ended up with what is a very pleasant beer with a good head resembling 
an English bitter or lighter variety pale ale (basically, it's a light 
brown color as opposed to the more reddish pale ales). It's in its prime 
right about now, although, as I've noticed with Brewferm kits, seems to 
keep  well and get progressivly better with time. What herbs may have 
been added is another story. Either I somehow boiled them off in my usual 
15-20 minute boil, or they've  used them  most sparingly. I don't even 
know if, in this style of beer, the herbal flavors are supposed to be 
dominant or apparent. However at most I seem to have been able to detect, 
on occasion, orangy notes. For the balance it tastes pretty much like a 
British bitter (mild).

What gives? I used their kit straight, and instead of the yeast that came 
with the cans, I used the newer Red Star yeast which gave me a good long 
and thorough fermentation.

craigm at helios.cae.ca



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Date: Sat, 29 Oct 94 20:54:00 -0400
From: bill.marks at nccbbs.com (BILL MARKS)
Subject: BruTemp Digital Temperature Probe

Last month I bought a brewprobe(tm) and printed circuit board to
build a digital thermometer called a BruProbe(tm) from JB
Distributing in Hollis, NH. (603) 465-7633.  The cost of the probe
and circuit board was $40 but each can be purchased separately.
The probe is a 3 foot long sturdy brass rod with an embedded solid
state, fast responding, temperature sensor in the end. The printed
circuit board is a professional piece of work with neat traces and
each component location silk-screened on the component side.  A
list of the components to populate the board are provided along
with extensive illustrated construction and calibration instructions.
The parts are all available from DIGIKEY Catalog sales.
DIGIKEY will accept a fax of the parts list and a credit card
number and provide "next day service".  They were out of one
100K potentiometer so I installed a 200K pot and the digital
thermometer worked perfectly.  Well, nearly perfectly.  I had made
a solder bridge between two traces and couldn't find it.  Joe
Brulotte of JB Distributing and Bob Mcilvaine, the inventer of the
BruTemp digital thermometer was a GREAT help in locating
the bridge I had made and correcting the problem.

Once the BruTemp was up and running I could consistently put it in
in ice water and get 32^F+/-0.1^F. All other temps compare very
well to a lab quality mercury in glass analog thermometer.
Repeatability and fast response were what I needed to sort out what
I had suspected was a large temperature gradient in my mash.  I
found as much as a 30^F gradient as I raised the temperature from
the 122^F protein rest to saccrification temperature.  The gradient
persistent to mashout.  Analog thermometers weren't fast enough
and weren't adaptable to a simple rig to go back and read exactly
the same spot time after time.  A 3 foot probe is perfect.  Since
obtaining my 3D temperature profile of my mash tun, I have started
changing the discharge pattern of my recirculation system.  I haven't
gotten the gradient whipped yet but I have it down to 8^F.

I have no financial or other interest in JB Distributing.  I am just an
appreciative, satisfied customer.

Bill

Bill.Marks at NCCBBS.COM

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Date: Sat, 29 Oct 94 21:23:00 -0400
From: bill.marks at nccbbs.com (BILL MARKS)
Subject: Found - The perfect pump!

The search for the perfect pump is over!

I found the following pump in Benny's Auto Stores here in Rhode
Island and was so pleased with it I thought I would pass on the
specs and manufacturer:

The pump is a heavy plastic, rotary vane type pump that will put
out 1000 gph at no head and has a 99 ft shut off head (44 psi).  It
has standard garden hose fittings on the suction and discharge and a
suction line removable 50 mesh filter.  The temperature range is 35
to 220^F!!!.  The pump is the size of your fist and has a shaft that
fits in a drill motor.  You had better get a pretty hefty drill though
because it requires a 1/4 to 1/3 hp motor at full load.  I brought a
3/8" brand new Black and Decker drill to its knees trying to pump
beer with a 35 psi delta P through a 0.5 micron filter. The pump
come with a complete overhaul kit to be used after 500,000 gallons
or 500 hours of operation.  It will run dry as a 2.8 psi (at 4000
RPM) air compressor for 15 minutes.  If the pump goes TU, the
mfgr will rebuild or replace it for $6 <-- that's SIX DOLLARS.
The pump specs say it will draw a 18" suction but I have actually
gotten it to draw 36". The recommended cleaning procedure is to
pump hot water through the pump.  So how much for this miracle
pump you say?  I paid $22.00 off of the shelf.

The data sheet say the pump is distributed by:
MATEX Gear and Pump Company
518 Greystone TR., NE
Marietta, GA  30068
(404) 565-4230
(404) 971-5539

I have no financial or other interest in MATEX.

Bill

Bill.Marks at NCCBBS.COM

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Date: Sat, 29 Oct 94 21:34:00 -0400
From: bill.marks at nccbbs.com (BILL MARKS)
Subject: Filtering problems

        I recently bought the 0.5 micron filter system from The Filter Store.
It produces absolutely clear beer, free of chill haze, exactly as advertised.
My problem is one of rate.  I chill to 35^f and then pressurize the corny keg
to blow the beer through the filter into a waiting, vented, purged, clean keg.
The first two quarts or so transfer right over at a reasonable rate - not as
fast as one would fill a glass from the tap but about a quart a minute.  Then
the rate drops to about zero and even with a differential pressure of 35 psi -
virtually nothing.  I back flush the filter, which cost a quart of beer, and
the rate picks up slightly.  After 1/2 hour of back flushing, I am set for a
new two quart cycle.  Any ideas of what I am doing wrong or is this normal with
so fine a filter?  Post here or private e-mail and I'll summarize and repost.

Bill

Bill.marks at NCCBBS.COM

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Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 01:21:55 -0500
From: kasperow at husc.harvard.edu
Subject: In defence of hardcopy edition

I, too, was concerned about someone profitting from publishing the HBD
in hardcopy form.  I sent email to clayglen at netcom.com (Clay Glenn)
notifying him that I hold implicit copyrights to my postings (which
are admittedly few and far between).  I notified him that he can
publish my postings if and only if he is not making a profit on them;
if he is making a profit through this venture, I told him he would
have to contact me to negotiate fair compensation.

In his response, he assured me that he is simply a relatively new
brewer who found the HBD to be an excellent source of information.  He
wants to share this source with other novices who do not have access
to the electronic edition of HBD.  He implied that his intent is not
to make a profit; he hopes only that his effort can pay for itself,
and not be a money drain for him.  He stated that when a post does
contain an explicit copyright notice, he will contact the author for
permission to publish it or exclude the post from the hardcopy
edition.

Doesn't sound so bad after all.  I wish him good luck.


- -- Rich Kasperowski     work:   richk at icad.com         617-868-2800 ext. 304
- --                      school: kasperow at husc.harvard.edu
- --                      home:                          617-492-5464

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Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 12:51:05 +0200 (IST)
From: Lenny Garfinkel <lenny at zeus.datasrv.co.il>
Subject: European suppliers

Hi, all.

I am in the rather difficult position of brewing beer in a country where 
brewing supplies are not available.  So, I depend on supplies which I 
bring from the US when visiting.  This is not dependable so I have begun 
mail ordering from the US (very, very expensive).  

Could anyone send me any of the following:

1. The addresses of homebrew suppliers in the UK.  Maybe shipping charges 
would be lower from the UK.

2. The address of Munton and Fison in the UK.  Maybe I can appeal to them 
to sell me DME wholesale, in which case, well the shipping is steep, but 
the overall price is right.

3. The address of Laaglander in the Netherlands (makers of DME) for the 
same reasons as in (2).

I can get DME for $2.5/lb but when you add shipping charges of about 
$2.30/lb, homebrew becomes very expensive.  If you want to do all-grain, 
it's even more absurd.  $1.50/lb for grain and $2.30 for shipping.

Thanks for your help.  If you have any innovative solutions to this 
dilemma, I'm all ears.

Lenny Garfinkel

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Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 08:46:28 -0500
From: Btalk at aol.com
Subject: Red Wolf

Red Wolf by A-B  was being offered at a beer fest I went to last night. It is
a *red *lager  made with roasted malt.
IMHO, nothing special.  Red Bud?
Regards,
Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY<btalk at aol.com>

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Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 10:27:00 -0500
From: BrewerLee at aol.com
Subject: HBD hardcopy

cancel article Oct29,16:44,6346

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Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 10:27:26 -0500
From: BrewerLee at aol.com
Subject: HBD Hardcopy

Brewers,

I received e-mail from Mr Glenn about his proposed project.  He, on the basis
of our objections, agrees to drop the project immediately.  I do think
however that we all misunderstood each other so let me post a portion of his
message to me:

 > Actually it started as a project at the local level.  Some of my
 > fellow homebrewers got to talking about how great the HBD is, 
 > and that it would be great if we could make it accessible to more
 > of the club members.  I volunteered to take on the task on and 
 > see if I could come up with something manageable and useful.
 > The end result was pretty impressive, but printing costs for
 > five copies were pretty high.  Thinking that others could benefit
 > from it as well, and maybe we could all get the cost down.... 
 > Well you can figure out how it went from there.

As you can see, he's not the big bad publisher that come to gobble up our
thoughts that we thought he was.  We all misunderstood each other and now
it's over and we all understand I hope.  Now. it may sound like I'm not mad
about it.  Belive me I was hot.  I'm just convinced now that he is a
reasonable man and that he will honor our wishes.  He also expressed a
concern that this interrupted the flow of the Digest and wanted it to get
back to normal.  Let's do that.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program. :)

Hoppy Brewing Steve!


 -Lee C. Bussy
 BrewerLee at aol.com

October 30, 1994
10:21 am


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Date: Sun, 30 Oct 94 10:38:09 EST
From: adamczyk at bns101.bng.ge.com (Bob Adamczyk ph2745)
Subject: stoves,UPS,PT wood and hardcopies

I have to do this because:
  (1) I can't stand it any more.
  (2) I just can't stand it any more.

Will all the owners of dirty stoves please take some highly
caustic compound, mix it with pressure treated wood
sawdust, clean their stoves thoroughly, bottle the residue, and
send it (via UPS, even if it has fermented) to the guy who
wants to SELL hardcopy versions of HBD.  I can't see how anyone
would want to pay real money for this kind of excessive drivel
when they could spend it on decent leaf hops and good imported
malt !! --- Please, advice is good and discussion is better,
but sometimes we do tend to drag this stuff around for too long.

My apologies, but now I feel much better !!! It's time to get
back to serious brewing and drinking of the results.

(yes, I KNOW you could have roasted a ton of barley on this flame)

Bob Adamczyk

Beartown Bitter (and the occasional Black Bear Stout)
Port Crane, NY

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Date: Sun, 30 Oct 94 10:51:15 EST
From: jimg at dcz.gso.uri.edu (James Gallagher)
Subject: Storing hop plugs

Is there any consensus on how long you can store hop plugs (sealed, in a
freezer) before they need to be tossed? If they loose potency, is there a way
to compensate by adding more? There was an article about hop storage in a
past Brewing Tech, but if I remember correctly it was talking about loose whole
hops, not plugs.

- -- 
James Gallagher
jimg at dcz.gso.uri.edu

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Date: Sun, 30 Oct 94 8:57:03 PST
From: msharp at Synopsys.COM (Michael Sharp)
Subject: Koch again 

Yesterday's HBD brought us lots of info on what Jim(TM) Koch(TM)
has been up to:

> Think that's bad enough?  How about the BBC's "intent to use"
> registration on "Great American Beer Judging" (filed 10-19-93,
> #74-450,324)?  I guess we should have expected as much from
> "America's Microbrewery" (BBC intent to use this name filed
> November 1992). 

I was just sitting here wondering if Great American Theme Parks
(Paramount) would be interested in harassing Jim over "Great American
Beer Juding". 
 
It would be _REALLY_ nice to see him on the receiving end.

	--Mike


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Date: Sun, 30 Oct 94 10:13:46 PST
From: hollen at megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Corny Keg Poppet Problem Solved

A while back someone posted a query about a Corny keg poppet that
would not stay closed when the quick disconnect was removed.  It would
kind of fall into the valve body.  Also, when tightening the valve
body onto the keg fitting, the valve body would bottom out before
becoming tight on the rubber gasket.  At the time, I not only did not
have the solution, but shared the problem.  After close inspection, I
have a solution.

With my kegs, I have at least two kinds of dip tubes.  Some have a
very narrow straight shoulder, and the others have a wide, kind of
curved, rolled shoulder.  The valve body in question would not tighten
down properly when put on the dip tube with wide shoulder.  It would,
however, fit perfectly (i.e. begin to snug up against rubber a couple
of threads from the end of the threads) if I put it on the narrow
shoulder dip tube.  Taking both dip tubes off and very carefully
observing how they fit into the valve body, I noticed that the dip
tube with wide shoulder would not push as far into the valve body as
the narrow shoulder dip tube.  I proceeded to grind just a skosh off
the wide shoulder until it fit down into the valve body completely.
When I put it back onto the keg, it snugged against the washer before
bottoming out on the threads.

So there are two solutions to this problem.  Move those valve bodies
to narrow shoulder dip tubes, or grind down your wide shoulder dip
tubes.  There are evidently at least two inside diameters of valve
bodies just under where the legs of the poppet come to.

dion

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Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 11:40:16 -0700 (MST)
From: walter at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
Subject: Re: Something new? from A-B

> I saw a commercial on TV last night for a new beer from A-B 
> called Red Wolf (as I remember).  It was reddish in color with 
> a Wolf on the label.  Now, does anyone know if is this a decent 
> product from an A-B aquisition or is it just a marketing gimmic 
> to sell Bud with a squirt of food coloring in it.

	It is Bud's answer to Coors Killians Red.  So, the food coloring 
scenario is probably correct.  In any case, AB is brewing it themselves.

Brian J Walter     Chemistry Graduate Student     walter at lamar.colostate.edu
RUSH Rocks Best                Homebrewer/Beer Geek                 Go Pack!

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Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 11:59:53 -0700 (MST)
From: walter at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
Subject: Re: HBD Hardcopy Edition & Copyright Law

> "Cyber Age Publishing is an Internet access provider with a twist. "
> 
> Bull. You're taking the work of others, printing it, retailing it without
> first getting releases from the authors, and claiming credit while having
> added absolutely no value whatsoever.
> 
> If I find you publishing or selling anything I have said without having
> first arranged it with me in writing, I will sue you into the ground.
					^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	Well, it seems we have a budding Jim Koch ;^>

	That said, I do think that selling the HBD is completely wrong.  
And the ad seemed to imply that other useful documents would be included 
also; could he be talking FAQ's and such?

- --bjw

Brian J Walter     Chemistry Graduate Student     walter at lamar.colostate.edu
RUSH Rocks Best                Homebrewer/Beer Geek                 Go Pack!

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Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 12:08:14 -0700 (MST)
From: walter at lamar.ColoState.EDU (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
Subject: Re: Jim Koch's Latest Antics

Howdy,
	And add to Louis Bonham's exhaustive list of BBC BullSh*t the fact that
he has trademarked, (or at least claimed to), the phrase "Just Brew It".  A 
local homebrew shop, named The Brew-It Company was using this phrase in 
some ads in local Brewspapers and was contacted by Jim Kock (sp? ;^) 
telling them they could not use the phrase as the BBC had rights to it.  
They have Nike rip off shirts which sport this phrase.

- --bjw

Brian J Walter     Chemistry Graduate Student     walter at lamar.colostate.edu
RUSH Rocks Best                Homebrewer/Beer Geek                 Go Pack!

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Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 16:19:16 -0500 (EST)
From: "NAME SEAN O'KEEFE, IFAS FOOD SCIENCE" <SFO at gnv.ifas.ufl.edu>
Subject: Red WOOF Lager

Chuck asked about Red Wolf Lager.  Well, I'll admit that I broke down and
actually purchased a 6-pak of the stuff.  Curiosity & all.  Well I have 5
left and poured 90% of the first down the drain.  If you knew me, you'd realize
what this means.  I didn't think that it had ANY LAGER character whatsoever.
It just tasted like Bud, concentrated 25%.  If you want the rest of the 6
I still have em.  If I could only EMAIL liquid....
Concerning SMM breakdown during the boil:  Will it all eventually break
down to DMS, which is boiled off?  How fast does the cooling after the boil
have to be?  I made a lager with 90min boil but cooled overnight at 36C and
found an unpleasant flavor I assume is DMS (from flavor descriptions).  If
I boil longer and cool the same way will I avoid DMS?  I really prefer hops or
malt flavor to cooked corn....

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Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 19:23:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Timothy P. Laatsch <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu>" <LAATSCH at kbs.msu.edu>
Subject: the Philmill??

Hey HBers,

I recently received a catalog from Brewer's Resource.  They sell a grain mill 
called the "Philmill" that they describe as follows:

	"Using a single knurled roller that crushes malt against an adjustable
	 surface, the Philmill produces a grist of very good quality.  We've
	 found the Philmill to be particularly easy on husks, leaving then whole
	 and fluffy, promoting efficient runoff.  *Cranking is slightly stiff*
	 but the handle is reversible for left-handed brewers."

Apparently, you have to supply your own hopper from an inverted 2-liter 
bottle with the bottom cut out.  I obviously have no financial interest in 
this company, just a consumer interest in their product.  Does anyone out 
there have this mill and is it any different/better/worse than the famous 
Maltmill or Glattmill?  The asking price is $74.95----this is cheaper than 
the Maltmill, but I don't know if the performance is comparable.  TIA for any 
help.

Tim

PS  I received many varied and useful responses to my all-grain questions.  
There were far too many eclectic ideas to summarize the information, but if 
any other all-grain newbies are interested, I can compile all the responses 
and send you the big bad all-grain info file.  I tried to personally thank 
all respondents, but another hearty thanks is in order.  so....THANKS!  bye.

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Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 13:16:52 +1000
From: pittock at rsbs-central.anu.edu.au
Subject: Evaporative lager cooling & other horror stories...

Today I am passing on a story about what I thought was a good idea at the
time, but was instead potentially a disastrous move, endangering the life
of my all-grain IPA.  Once upon a time...with the daytime temperatures
getting into the low-mid 20s (C), I thought that wrapping my primary with a
damp towel would provide the cooling required to keep the lager yeasties
(WYeast 2112) comfortably cool.  This was in fact true - a good even 16 deg
C was easy!  HOWEVER!  It came to racking to the secondary during the w/end
just past - simple enough, done it many times before...[cue the
shlock-horror tension music]...I unwrap the fermenter to find...a veritable
rainbow of fungi growing all over the fermenter, including the  outside of
the seal and around the tap...red ones, green ones, yellow ones, white
ones...  After much throwing around of bleach, I proceeded...
To rack and ruin?!  Time will tell...

  \\|//  . o         ____________         Chris Pittock 06)2495099
 o- at   at -o     O      ( Yeast, hop )        pittock at rsbs0.anu.edu.au   
  | U |        ()  ( & charity... )       PO Box 475 Canberra City   
  { - }             (____________)        ACT 2601  Australia.       
   /|\


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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1566, 10/31/94